VW closer than ever to WRC

[Simmi]

I thought this merited a thread all of its own.

There isn't anything on their website yet, but Autosport just dropped through my door and they have what I take to be a promising story about a possible VW entry into the WRC.

The jist is that Kris Nissen is "challenging" the WRC to improve and to convince them to enter. VW are to decide their motorsport future in March 2010 and it seems the options are a WRC assault for 2012 or to build a Race Touareg 3 and commit to the Dakar/Raids for the longterm. The point being they need to decide now what they are doing.

Interestingly Nissen says VW would like to see more manufacturers and a maximum of 12 events - but with a return to classic events. It seems the Monte is a key event for them so that needs to return.

He also says along with the rumoured Scirocco they might also go down the route of a Golf or a Polo for a possible WRC. They basically have 3 options for car choice.

Finally he says that Carlos Sainz is staying with the team and he could be very valuable as a tester and to help the team with his experience of rallying. So reading between the lines perhaps he could be a senior team member.


So VW have basically laid out their stall and said they want to enter the WRC - but certain things need to happen.
Do you think they will? Is there actually any benefit to building another Dakar challenger when you can only beat yourself? Will the FIA/ISC be able to bring back the Monte? etc...

[Josti]

Volkswagen has money and a strong base, they have every oppertunity to join.

They have been in Rally-Raid since 2005 (at least with the Touareg), and are defenitly on their peak at the moment. If they win Dakar next year, I see no valuable reason for them to continue long term. WRC would be a logical step for VW, they have a range of models to choose from and I think VW suits rallying more than any form of racing. Skoda could be the obstacle though, but Volkswagen did have a WRC program (albeit Group A only) when Audi was around (and maybe Skoda for IRC and VW for WRC, who knows).

In any case, I like their attitude towards WRC. 12 events max, including most of the classic events. I bet with their Rally-Raid experience they probably want the Safari Rally to fit in this picture. Monte should be back regardless.

[Tomi]

It seems the Monte is a key event for them so that needs to return.

good, then its up the autoclub to do the needed changes to get back.

[Buzz Lightyear]

good, then its up the autoclub to do the needed changes to get back.

Think you got that mixed up Toni. It's ISC/WRC that needs to change.

[Tomi]

Think you got that mixed up Toni. It's ISC/WRC that needs to change.

not so sure about that Bass, the reasons they are not in the wrc are more than just 1.

[Simmi]

Volkswagen has money and a strong base, they have every oppertunity to join.

They have been in Rally-Raid since 2005 (at least with the Touareg), and are defenitly on their peak at the moment. If they win Dakar next year, I see no valuable reason for them to continue long term.

This is what I think too about the Dakar. Although apparently they are committed to the event through 2011. It would be 2012 where they debut the new car - either WRC or Dakar. I really see no point in continuing to plough money into beating yourself in raids.

I think it is possible for the Monte to return. The ACM have made their point and will be allowed to run the kind of event they want. I'm sure they would prefer to ideally be back in the WRC on their terms.

2011 will have 3 manu's with Cit/Ford plus Prodrive's project. I'd like to see VAG allow Skoda and VW to compete together. That would be 5 manu's and a pretty tasty championship all of a sudden.

[Josti]

not so sure about that Bass, the reasons they are not in the wrc are more than just 1.

In any case, ACM benefited, while WRC did not.

[Tomi]

In any case, ACM benefited, while WRC did not.

thats true off course they did, but to save on drivers security is not so good thing i think.

[Buzz Lightyear]

thats true off course they did, but to save on drivers security is not so good thing i think.

if you are reffering to night stages tomy, then the fact that every stage is to be streamed live, they have alot more 'security' than most. I think ACM is ahead of the game, in that they know what drivers, spectators, sponsors, and its not an homogenized clover leaf format.

[jonkka]

Is this thread about Monte Carlo Rally or Volkswagen?

[Buzz Lightyear]

Is this thread about Monte Carlo Rally or Volkswagen?

Both as far as I can seen. Monte Carlo / VW were both mentioned in the opening post of the thread.

[DonJippo]

Is this thread about Monte Carlo Rally or Volkswagen?

I think it's about VW looking an opportunity to join WRC and wanting classic events, such as MC, to be back on the calendar so in my opinion is about both plus additionally if you want it could be also about Safari as it's a classic event that is missing from the calendar.

Happy now jonkka :p :

[jonkka]

Happy now jonkka :p :

Not until Xmas boozing season begins and my boss gives me a raise... :crazy:

Oh well, seriously then.

Monte Carlo. It's a classic event, that's for sure and one I've always seen as the proper way to fire off the new season. At it's best, it's demanding and interesting rally where result is never sure until finishing line as f.ex. Delecour well knows. Monte has a special flavour that is hard to put into words.

Having said that, I am very disgusted with those spectators who spread snow on blind corners. That's irresponsible, unsafe and stupid. Also, I've understood that ACM is the most arrogant organisers anywhere. If Rally Australia & Connelly gang are the most pleasant organisers, ACM is at the other end of the spectrum.

Volkswagen. It is high time for them to make a serious attempt at WRC. They've practised that with their Audi, Skoda and Seat brands with varying degree of success. They have plenty of aces on hand - from Carlos Sainz to rally-raid experience and relatively solid financial position.

What comes to demands towards ISC/FIA that "we won't come unless you meet our demands" is a bit two-edged sword. FIA should not try to please every involved party - they should remain impartial and seek solutions that are best for the whole, not pleasant to just one actor in the show. Having said that and coupled what I said above about Monte, I'd like to see it back but not unconditionally.

Also, VW's limit of 12 events per year is ridiculous. If something is good, there can't be too much of it and if it's not good, why bother at all. From financial point of view I understand that during these times it's wise to keep number of events down but when economy picks up again, I'd like 51 rallies a year. One weekend off is enuff...

[Simmi]

I'd prefer probably 14 rallies a year as a realistic calendar. I would hope that the number of events is something VW would budge on. I think 12 events is the current minimum and will never be a maximum like VW would prefer.

I agree with jonkka in that you can't bend completely to meet the wants of a team who isn't even in the championship yet. But Kris Nissen did say he feels VW essentially wants the same thing for the WRC as all car makers.

[Rallyper]

Not until Xmas boozing season begins and my boss gives me a raise... :crazy:

Oh well, seriously then.

Monte Carlo. It's a classic event, that's for sure and one I've always seen as the proper way to fire off the new season. At it's best, it's demanding and interesting rally where result is never sure until finishing line as f.ex. Delecour well knows. Monte has a special flavour that is hard to put into words.

Having said that, I am very disgusted with those spectators who spread snow on blind corners. That's irresponsible, unsafe and stupid. Also, I've understood that ACM is the most arrogant organisers anywhere. If Rally Australia & Connelly gang are the most pleasant organisers, ACM is at the other end of the spectrum.

Volkswagen. It is high time for them to make a serious attempt at WRC. They've practised that with their Audi, Skoda and Seat brands with varying degree of success. They have plenty of aces on hand - from Carlos Sainz to rally-raid experience and relatively solid financial position.

What comes to demands towards ISC/FIA that "we won't come unless you meet our demands" is a bit two-edged sword. FIA should not try to please every involved party - they should remain impartial and seek solutions that are best for the whole, not pleasant to just one actor in the show. Having said that and coupled what I said above about Monte, I'd like to see it back but not unconditionally.

Also, VW's limit of 12 events per year is ridiculous. If something is good, there can't be too much of it and if it's not good, why bother at all. From financial point of view I understand that during these times it's wise to keep number of events down but when economy picks up again, I'd like 51 rallies a year. One weekend off is enuff...

:up:

[Rally Power]

VW plans for motorsport are a bit confusing...two weeks ago Hans Stuck was saying VW could be in F1 as engine suplier!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80348

[koko0703]

I think VW is definitely looking into the motorsports beyond their Raid Program, and they are exploring every form of motorsports from being Formula 1 engine supplier to full works WRC or WTCC programs. It would be great if VW chooses the WRC as their commitment but at the moment the future of WRC isn't that clear to anyone. I hope Jean Todt and FIA can clear up the regulations etc soon and provide manufacturers a good view of how WRC will be ran over next 5, 10 years.

[AndyRAC]

I really hope VW do come to the WRC, all that prestige and financial clout (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, etc -and connections to Porsche). While it would be wrong for FiA/ISC do bend over backwards for them, they should at least listen to their position. We don't want them ending up in another series. Add in BMW-Mini it's a bit different to Hyundai, Suzuki, and can challenge of Ford/Citroen in backing.

[Simmi]

I really hope VW do come to the WRC, all that prestige and financial clout (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, etc -and connections to Porsche). While it would be wrong for FiA/ISC do bend over backwards for them, they should at least listen to their position. We don't want them ending up in another series. Add in BMW-Mini it's a bit different to Hyundai, Suzuki, and can challenge of Ford/Citroen in backing.

I think bringing back the Monte is achievable for the WRC. They have another manufacturer entering which they wanted. Surely VW entering is a great way to entice more manufacturers for the future.

But their 12 round minimum call is going to be in vain. The 2011 calendar is going to be more like 14 I believe. I doubt they will remove two rounds for 2012. Hopefully having events in lucrative markets will soften that blow.

[Motorsportfun]

I think bringing back the Monte is achievable for the WRC. They have another manufacturer entering which they wanted. Surely VW entering is a great way to entice more manufacturers for the future.

But their 12 round minimum call is going to be in vain. The 2011 calendar is going to be more like 14 I believe. I doubt they will remove two rounds for 2012. Hopefully having events in lucrative markets will soften that blow.

A suitable calendar not only for Volkswagen, but for all Manufacturers, could be this:

01.Monte Carlo
02.Sweden/Norway
03.Mexico/Brazil
04.Argentina
05.Portugal
06.Italy
07.Greece
08.Turkey
09.Poland
10.Finland
11.France
12.Spain
13.New Zealand
14.Abu Dhabi

I think these rallies are important for the WRC promoter (new sponsors can committ to the sport), teams (sponsors for their liveries, like Abu Dhabi or TMN or Galp Energia), media (more spectators, more fun, more interest and curiosity to see the - eventually new - sport on tv), etc.

[Mirek]

Season finale in Abu Dhabi? I hope that never happens...

[alleskids]

you see no place for Rally Great Britain in the ideal calander? Greece and Turkey can be coupelled and I hope you mean Sanremo instead of Sardinie.

But to keep ontopic, Volkswagen for WRC would be a good thing. F1 is not suited for the brand Volkswagen. Besides, they have the expertise for offroad technoligy, would not be of good use, unless they intend to visit the gravel traps a lot instead off the circuit. VW in WRC, Skoda in IRC. And maybe Audi engines in F1

[Motorsportfun]

you see no place for Rally Great Britain in the ideal calander? Greece and Turkey can be coupelled and I hope you mean Sanremo instead of Sardinie.

But to keep ontopic, Volkswagen for WRC would be a good thing. F1 is not suited for the brand Volkswagen. Besides, they have the expertise for offroad technoligy, would not be of good use, unless they intend to visit the gravel traps a lot instead off the circuit. VW in WRC, Skoda in IRC. And maybe Audi engines in F1

Sanremo has contracts with IRC, so they cant host both series. And in Sanremo they are happy to host the IRC, as it can be read on the press.

If Rally GB is organized in just some of old stages in Wales, and the route remains contracted and small... well, it's better to forget it!

Sardinia in 2010 - although I can't say it, as is not official, will embrace ALL the island, starting from Cagliari (500.000 pop.) and will have two days of competition in various parts of Sardinia. So it will embrace something like 800k people. Not considering the tourism and the "foreign" fans. The stages also could be on mixed surfaces (picking old stages used by Costa Smeralda Rally - when people like Toivonen entered the rally - in 80's).

;)

Back on topic. I've read that someone thinks that Skoda's commitment to IRC could obstacle the programmes. It's not true IMHO, 'cause Skoda rally programme is based on the S2000 sells to privateers and importers. Isn't it?

[Simmi]

]Season finale in Abu Dhabi? I hope that never happens...

Same here. Even if I weren't slightly biased towards GB, the thought of it turns my stomach.

The glitz of these places if fine for F1 but to have the season played out in barren empty landscapes infront of five spectators just isn't for me.

[Motorsportfun]

Maybe the ideal solution is a 15-events calendar, in order to have GB too. But think if Abu Dhabi didn't renewed their contracts with WRC and Ford too. Now we couldn't talk about WRC. Or not?

[Simmi]

Maybe the ideal solution is a 15-events calendar, in order to have GB too. But think if Abu Dhabi didn't renewed their contracts with WRC and Ford too. Now we couldn't talk about WRC. Or not?

Not sure how deep their influence goes. I would hope Ford could survive without these guys. Dangerous to put all your business into the hands of these countries who could just walk away on a whim. Or when they go bankrupt!

Like it or not and as watered down and castrated as Rally GB has become, it still has the classic status. To get rid of it would go against all the noises ISC has been making about keeping classic events. I think if they don't improve their event though it will come up to more scrutiny. Moving more North into Wales isn't good enough.

But if VW don't want more than 12 events they wont like 15. I'd say of your list I'd remove Turkey. The generic gravel mid-season needs breaking up.

[Josti]

But if VW don't want more than 12 events they wont like 15. I'd say of your list I'd remove Turkey. The generic gravel mid-season needs breaking up.

Or, allow manufacterers to chose the rallies they want to drive (12 events minimum in this case). This was a regularity until WRC (kind of) went F1 style from '97 onwards.

But Turkey should go, I agree, I'm still stunned to see it favoured over Argentina next year.

[DonJippo]

Olivier Quesnel says on an article in France 2 webpage that VW will come to WRC 2012 and Prodrive makes a return year before 2011 (at least that's what I think he says) , here's the article http://sport.france2.fr/moteurs/L-ann%C3%A9e-moteur-d-Olivier-Quesnel-59729930.html

[Barreis]

Good news.. :)

[Simmi]

Olivier Quesnel says on an article in France 2 webpage that VW will come to WRC 2012 and Prodrive makes a return year before 2011 (at least that's what I think he says) , here's the article http://sport.france2.fr/moteurs/L-ann%C3%A9e-moteur-d-Olivier-Quesnel-59729930.html

The Prodrive wheels are already in motion. Really hope VW commit and that they announce it ASAP. Hopefully there is another car maker somewhere (yes you Toyota - or anyone else) who sees this and decides to go for 2012 too.

VW would be the best thing to happen to the WRC in years.

[Mirek]

From different point of view I'm very interested in VW 1.6T engine. I realy don't know which one of their production units they want to use. 1.6 FSI is no longer produced, 1.6 8V is obsolete, 1.4TSI would have very short stroke and thin block, 1.8 20V is also obsolete. Maybe 1.8TSI...

[JRodrigues]

And could Subaru use their 1.5 engine??

[pettersolberg29]

(A bit off-topic, but at the bottom of the article just posted doesn't it say : "I'm maybe not objective, but I expected better. We'll see in 2010 because he will attend several events with a C4 private." And he said that about Valentino Rossi? Rossi in a C4? Where have I misunderstood because that cannot be right!)

[alleskids]

Rossi turned down the offer to race in Le Mans with Jean Alesi. His manager or engineer said, that Rossi only wants to concentrate on MotorGP once the season has started. So I thing we wil not see any action of Valentino Rossi in the 2010 WRC, neither with a C4 WRC ofr any other car. Only (maybe) in the Rally GB

[Koppomsbo]

Well, would be great to see this one on the special stages :) :up:

[Barreis]

It doesn't metter what car.. Just to see VW in WRC after Safari 1998.. :)

[rv65]

Rallybase said that VW is considering using the Golf or the Polo for the WRC. I think the Polo is more likely. VW also said it would take about 18 months to develop a WRcar if they're going to compete in the WRC. VW will join the WRC in 2012 and not 2011. Carlos Sainz will have some sort of involvement with the team if it ever comes into frutition.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/vw-decision-wrc-march-2010/

[Langdale Forest]

The best rally car VW built was the 1999 F2 Golf.

[Barreis]

It was called THE BOMBER..

[Langdale Forest]

Why?

[MJW]

The best rally car VW built was the 1999 F2 Golf.
I think the late 1980's Group A Golf Gti as driven be Kenneth Erikson was pretty good too.

[Langdale Forest]

Looked very standard though and sounded quite boring.

[Simmi]

I think the late 1980's Group A Golf Gti as driven be Kenneth Erikson was pretty good too.

Kenneth did great things with that car. Won a rally outright too albeit against limited opposition. But this was the car that made him.

[Barreis]

Why?

Darko Peljhan (Slovenian) used to have one.. They called him PLAVI BOMBNIK.. That means THE BLUE BOMBER.. Great car with sound that revs Your ears.. :)

[Sulland]

Rallybase said that VW is considering using the Golf or the Polo for the WRC. I think the Polo is more likely. VW also said it would take about 18 months to develop a WRcar if they're going to compete in the WRC. VW will join the WRC in 2012 and not 2011. Carlos Sainz will have some sort of involvement with the team if it ever comes into frutition.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/vw-decision-wrc-march-2010/

The Scirocco was not out of the question either, so they have 3 possibilities !

Must be much better to do WRC than Dakar, since the payback, in selling customer cars must be better in WRC than in Raid. And it is closer to the product they sell most of.

[rv65]

VW still wants flappy paddle gearboxes so they can use their racing DSG. I think the 1.6T WRCars will have them while the lower spec S2000's will use just a plain old sequential dog box.

[Sulland]

hopefully the best drivers in the world can use a sequential gearbox, like the rest of us should have i all new cars, instead of the old useless H-box !

This would also keep price and tech levels down !

[Mirek]

VW still wants flappy paddle gearboxes so they can use their racing DSG. I think the 1.6T WRCars will have them while the lower spec S2000's will use just a plain old sequential dog box.

I don't think that another hydraulics is good idea...