** Let's have a discussion about MARIJUANA. **

[gloomyDAY]

I'm not a marijuana user, but have tried it in the past (we're talking years ago).

Although I don't fancy the drug, I know many friends, family, co-workers, etc. that smoke it anywhere from a daily basis or occasionally. The problem I have is that they have to hide it from other people because marijuana is illegal.

Why is marijuana illegal? This seems so stupid in so many ways. In America alone, we are filling our jails to the brim for a weed grown out of a teenagers basement, taxing all Americans to fight a losing battle :mad: , and lastly advocating the eradication of a plant. I don't like coffee. Does that mean that in gloomyDAY's America coffee would be illegal and tried to be killed off? No! Just legalize marijuana and so many of our drug problems will disappear. If anything the drug growers/traffickers/dealers want the government to prohibit the use of marijuana to spike up the value of their goods. Ounce for ounce marijuana is worth more than gold.

The reasons I think pot is illegal:
- Prisons are big business.
- Politicians use it as a scapegoat for re-election.
- Drug war needs it to feed the vicious cycle.
- Medical industry is afraid of its medicinal effects.

Explain it to me like I'm a 4 year-old. Why should marijuana still be illegal?

[MrJan]

There is a claim that it can cause psychosis with prolonged use. Not sure of the truth of it but couldn't really care, whenever I've tried smoking weed it hasn't been a particularly enjoyable experience.

[harsha]

There's more harm in smoking a cigarette than smoking a weed....and include the cigarette company conspiracy theories too ;)

[gloomyDAY]

There is a claim that it can cause psychosis with prolonged use. Not sure of the truth of it but couldn't really care, whenever I've tried smoking weed it hasn't been a particularly enjoyable experience.lol. Psychosis? Source?


There's more harm in smoking a cigarette than smoking a weed....and include the cigarette company conspiracy theories too ;) Fact! Cigarettes kill over 400,000 people in America every year.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html


We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use....What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect....
I've never heard of anyone dying from a joint. I can understand someone under the influence of marijuana maybe causing a car crash, but statistically alcohol is principle drug related to motor vehicle deaths.

[MrJan]

I thought that it was fairly well known, always seems to pop up in the media over here.

Anyway http://www.nowpublic.com/health/marijuana-may-increase-risk-psychosis-study

Weed smokers will always say "well it's not as harmful as alcohol or cigarettes" but all that will end up doing is leading politicians to ban those too. I just can't see the attraction of weed though, when I get drunk I have a laugh and enjoy myself whereas when I smoke I end up being stupidly paranoid about everything.

[gloomyDAY]

I thought that it was fairly well known, always seems to pop up in the media over here.

Anyway http://www.nowpublic.com/health/marijuana-may-increase-risk-psychosis-study

Weed smokers will always say "well it's not as harmful as alcohol or cigarettes" but all that will end up doing is leading politicians to ban those too. I just can't see the attraction of weed though, when I get drunk I have a laugh and enjoy myself whereas when I smoke I end up being stupidly paranoid about everything.Did you even read your own article?


According to the findings, however, the risk of developing psychoses remains low. About five in 1,000 people have schizophrenia.Those odds aren't bad.

The people who experienced psychosis already had a preexisting condition.
Imagine a schizophrenic high on marijuana. Ridiculous!

[MrJan]

No I didn't. I don't have an opinion either way, just going by what I heard and picked an article at random after putting 'marijuana psychosis' into Google :D

Seem to remember other side effects being infertility, even if that's only 1 in 1000 I don't want the risk :D ;) Besides there are other vices which I find far more enjoyable....but that's not for a family forum.

[Roamy]

legalize it - tax it -light up- I think it is a loser drug but it has became too available and now just costs us tons of money. But you know how dumb our leaders are so between that and God's people fat chance of ever doing the right thing. On the other hand if you don't want drugs start executing people. The middle of the road deal like we are doing is obviously a blatant failure. NOW don't think I want to execute marry j people just the meth people. I would legalize coke also I am tired of that sh!t too. The best medicine against drugs is leadership and educAtion - two things that are headed to hell in a lead sled in this country.

[gloomyDAY]

legalize it - tax it -light up- I think it is a loser drug but it has became too available and now just costs us tons of money. But you know how dumb our leaders are so between that and God's people fat chance of ever doing the right thing. On the other hand if you don't want drugs start executing people. The middle of the road deal like we are doing is obviously a blatant failure. NOW don't think I want to execute marry j people just the meth people. I would legalize coke also I am tired of that sh!t too. The best medicine against drugs is leadership and educAtion - two things that are headed to hell in a lead sled in this country.I agree.

Aside from calling marijuana a loser drug.
That's just a stereotype. Bloomberg doesn't seem like a loser to me.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Having just come from Amsterdam I have a bit of experience on this topic ;)

I don't really see how it is a more dangerous drug than alcohol?

[gloomyDAY]

Having just come from Amsterdam I have a bit of experience on this topic ;)

I don't really see how it is a more dangerous drug than alcohol?It isn't, period.

Alcohol lands a lot more people in the hospital due to:
- Domestic violence.
- Poisoning.
- Car accidents.

Marijuana will land you in jail as a felon. Then, your life is done.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It isn't, period.

Alcohol lands a lot more people in the hospital due to:
- Domestic violence.
- Poisoning.
- Car accidents.

Marijuana will land you in jail as a felon. Then, your life is done.

If it was legalised though it might become more of contributing factor in car crashes as it is more available.

That said, it's not exactly difficult to get your hands on weed in this country where it is illegal.

[MrJan]

Can people stop bad mouthing alcohol please? :p :


Oooh, memory loss is another reason why they ban weed. My old man can speak from experience, he used to be blazing all the time and now suffers quite badly with forgetting stuff. They will never legalise it anyway, it's easier to criminalise other stuff like fags and booze.

[Jag_Warrior]

This is the basis for why marijuana is illegal in the U.S. :devil:
0m128QcdrUI

I don't smoke the doobus. And if you come into my home, you can't smoke it on my property. My property. My rules. But the same holds true for cigarettes or cigars (inside my home). As for legality, a "friend of mine" ( ;) ) recently shared a few drinks from a mason jar with a member of a state police agency. So it really makes me roll my eyes when the holy rollers and law enforcement types get all sanctimonious about weed. A lot of them are the very same people that know the ins & outs of good homemade sippin' spirits. :beer:

IMO, weed is no worse than booze or cigarettes. Is it a "gateway drug" as some claim? I dunno. From personal experience, I'd say the substance that causes the most social harm in the U.S. is alcohol. Maybe weed smoke burns your lungs up the same as cigarettes. And maybe there are other health concerns. Worse than what booze does to the brain and liver? I doubt it, but maybe. So find out, publish the results and let people decide for themselves!

And hey, instead of all these girls named Lexus, Porsche and Mercedes, seems like there should be more kids named Seagrams, Johnny Walker, Jim Beam and Budweiser. Cause let's face it, those names would better describe how many of them came to be conceived.

For the most part, I go with the libertarian view when it comes to drugs (including alcohol and nicotine): it's your responsibility to decide what to put into your body - not the governments. I see it as a tremendous waste of resources and taxpayer dollars to hunt down potheads and jail them. Especially since our prison system is not equipped to rehabilitate people, all we do is send them into an environment where they'll be trained to become more hardened criminals upon their release.

Also, in my view, the U.S. has one of the most hypocritical criminal justice systems in the developed world. We LOVE to lock up the little guys (so we can dance & sing about taking a bite out of crime). But how often do we go after the big money players. I'll tag up with Fousto on this one. If we would ever enforce the death penalty for major smugglers and included the bankers and crooked lawyers that assist them, we wouldn't really have much of a drug problem here in the U.S. But that's not ever going to happen. We don't execute people who wear suits to work here in the land of the free and home of the brave. :rolleyes:

What Fousto said: "legalize it - tax it - light up"... or something along those lines. Hell, I might be able to turn Fousto into an honest to goodness libertarian yet. Just got to keep ol' Sarah Palin from flashing her boney legs at him and getting him on the wrong track. :D

[gloomyDAY]

Jag, have you ever heard of the Schaffer Report? Nixon completely neglected a report, which the U.S. government sponsored, that states marijuana use had no long-term adverse affects on the human body. Nixon just decided to get rid of pot because the hippies were smoking it, so if you incarcerate the hippies, then you get rid of the Vietnam War protesters.

Long live the War on Drugs.

[MrJan]

Is it a "gateway drug" as some claim? I dunno.

Possibly, a lot of friends have moved on to trying 'heavier' stuff after smoking weed but I don't necessarily think that the two are linked. Personally anything stronger that I've tried has not been as a result of think "aah well I like weed so maybe this is better" but just because I've felt like giving it a go. Mind you I'm not sure if I'd have tried it if it weren't for my friends already having had it so we're back at square one.

[Jag_Warrior]

Jag, have you ever heard of the Schaffer Report? Nixon completely neglected a report, which the U.S. government sponsored, that states marijuana use had no long-term adverse affects on the human body. Nixon just decided to get rid of pot because the hippies were smoking it, so if you incarcerate the hippies, then you get rid of the Vietnam War protesters.

Long live the War on Drugs.

No, I'm not familiar with the Schaeffer Report. But I think marijuana and hemp were made illegal back in the 1930's, after the release of that idiotic movie, Reefer Madness. But yeah, I believe it was Nixon who declared the "War on Drugs". And if he'd gone after the major smugglers, maybe he'd have been on the right path. But like Reagan, the major focus remained on small time pushers. If that's not true, then has the amount of cocaine, heroin and marijuana decreased or increased since their little make believe wars started??? And now we've got the meth epidemic hitting rural areas. But just talking about pot, is that really something that we need to be devoting major resources on? Tax it. Control it. And sing The Beatles, Let It Be.

Don't anybody get me wrong. I'm not pro-drugs, or pro-pot. But I generally believe in letting people make their own decisions about what they ingest. And since booze and cigarettes aren't illegal, it just doesn't make any sense to me that marijuana is.

[gloomyDAY]

Don't anybody get me wrong. I'm not pro-drugs, or pro-pot. But I generally believe in letting people make their own decisions about what they ingest. And since booze and cigarettes aren't illegal, it just doesn't make any sense to me that marijuana is.Yes, I agree.

I don't want to be mistaken for a drug crazed addict. I'm not advocating the use of drugs, no one else in this thread has either, but since alcohol and cigarettes are legal (while being heavily regulated by the government), then marijuana should be legal too.

Here's a link to the Shafer Report: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm

Even after Nixon knew the contents of the report, he went with his prejudices instead of cold hard facts. What was his opinion on marijuana?


I see another thing in the news summary this morning about it. That's a funny thing, every one of the b@stards that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish. What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob, what is the matter with them? I suppose it's because most of them are psychiatrists.

-Richard Nixon

[ShiftingGears]

No, I'm not familiar with the Schaeffer Report. But I think marijuana and hemp were made illegal back in the 1930's, after the release of that idiotic movie, Reefer Madness.

Just saw that trailer. That's the most ridiculous movie I've ever seen.

[Roamy]

i think certain drugs meth and date rape should be punishable by immediate death. In the case of meth selling or using.

[gloomyDAY]

i think certain drugs meth and date rape should be punishable by immediate death. In the case of meth selling or using.I remember a certain case of an Australian man....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/btn/v3/stories/s1518414.htm

The Singaporeans hanged the punk for smuggling heroin.

Works for them. Other countries too! Really gets the message across.
Mexico recently had a debate in Congress to bring back the death penalty for drug lords. Why not?

[Rollo]

I've never heard of anyone dying from a joint. I can understand someone under the influence of marijuana maybe causing a car crash, but statistically alcohol is principle drug related to motor vehicle deaths.

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/31/2/33/5/#2
Alcohol continues to be the most prevalent drug causing road trauma. In Australia, its prevalence in road fatalities is 25-30% depending on the jurisdiction. The average blood alcohol concentration in fatal accidents is over 0.15%.

Cannabis (marijuana) is the second most common drug (found in about 15% of fatalities in Victoria), followed by the amphetamine-type stimulants (4%) and opioids (4%). Illicit drugs are present in almost 20% of drivers killed in Victoria.2 A survey of almost 500 injured drivers admitted to a major road trauma hospital found that cannabis products were present in 46%, opioid analgesics in 11% and amphetamines in 4%.3

The real difficulty in all of this is proving causality. Although correlations can be drawn in studies, a correlation does not necessarily mean that the thing itself is harmful.

Having said this, the sorts of people likely to engage in canabis use are probably also more likely to be involved in cases of domestic violence, but again, causality is an issue.

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/fca/subabuse/sub119.pdf

The two main substances of abuse linked to domestic violence are alcohol and marijuana. Workers observed that individuals who are regular users of marijuana are often locked into a pattern of apathy, paranoia or denial that makes it harder for them to take responsibility for their actions and change their behaviour patterns. Another point of note was identified by a worker, that when participants stop smoking marijuana repressed emotions can ‘blow out’ resulting in unpredictable violence.

The question perhaps that really needs to be addressed is not why is it illegal, but what is a sufficiently good enough reason to legalise it. It if makes society "better" than presumably that might be a good thing, but I have never ever seen a single case where anyone has presented a positive for it.

The other thing which makes me highly sceptical about legalising it, is that usually the sorts of people who would wish this to be are of less than desirable character; that speaks volumes.

[Hondo]

I'm not a marijuana user, but have tried it in the past (we're talking years ago).

Although I don't fancy the drug, I know many friends, family, co-workers, etc. that smoke it anywhere from a daily basis or occasionally. The problem I have is that they have to hide it from other people because marijuana is illegal.

Why is marijuana illegal? This seems so stupid in so many ways. In America alone, we are filling our jails to the brim for a weed grown out of a teenagers basement, taxing all Americans to fight a losing battle :mad: , and lastly advocating the eradication of a plant. I don't like coffee. Does that mean that in gloomyDAY's America coffee would be illegal and tried to be killed off? No! Just legalize marijuana and so many of our drug problems will disappear. If anything the drug growers/traffickers/dealers want the government to prohibit the use of marijuana to spike up the value of their goods. Ounce for ounce marijuana is worth more than gold.

The reasons I think pot is illegal:
- Prisons are big business.
- Politicians use it as a scapegoat for re-election.
- Drug war needs it to feed the vicious cycle.
- Medical industry is afraid of its medicinal effects.

Explain it to me like I'm a 4 year-old. Why should marijuana still be illegal?

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but in a nutshell, here's your answer. The people currently on the illegal side of the fence invoved in large scale growing, distribution, and smuggling don't want to see it legalized. Financial institutions involved with the money laundering don't want to see it legalized. The 15 year old street dealer and the southern USA coal miners growing it on the side don't want to see it legalized.

An awful lot of money flows into the political machine via lobbyists and contributions to keep pot illegal.

[Jag_Warrior]

Just saw that trailer. That's the most ridiculous movie I've ever seen.

Got to keep the peasants scared of going near the fence. That was the 1930's version of "Good lawdy! Theys gonna unplug Grandma!!!"

______________________________________
Or as my grandfather used to say: "When in danger, when in doubt... run in circles, scream & shout."

[F1boat]

legalize it - tax it -light up- I think it is a loser drug but it has became too available and now just costs us tons of money.

I agree.

[race aficionado]

:s mokin:

Been there done that . . . got a couple of tea shirts to prove it . . .

I wouldn't like to see my 13 year old smoking it but know that maybe he will experience it some day, as I did and some of you did too.

I agree with fousto and Fiero 5.7 and others. Bottom line is that it is a party drug that I don't mind seeing used by others at a party as others consume their alcohol and tobacco. There is a place for everything, as my dear mom taught me, and eventually it will find it's place in the "legal - but will probably kill you - but enjoy it if you can" place in our society.

[anthonyvop]

Just saw that trailer. That's the most ridiculous movie I've ever seen.
I guess you never saw "Bowling for Columbine."

[ShiftingGears]

I guess you never saw "Bowling for Columbine."

I did, however Reefer Madness takes the cake.

[Hazell B]

Problem is that a few beers tend to have pretty much the same effect on all humans (not mood-wise, but health-wise) whereas weed messes with different people different ways.

That means it's easy to limit alcohol within the laws and we can all understand what a limit is. With weed that's impossible as it varies so much in strength joint to joint, even if all from one plant.

Anyway, I'm happy for it to be illegal here. Makes it cheaper if you want to use it (no tax, no line of wholesalers to pay) and mildly harder for morons to get hold of it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Problem is that a few beers tend to have pretty much the same effect on all humans (not mood-wise, but health-wise) whereas weed messes with different people different ways.

That means it's easy to limit alcohol within the laws and we can all understand what a limit is. With weed that's impossible as it varies so much in strength joint to joint, even if all from one plant.

Anyway, I'm happy for it to be illegal here. Makes it cheaper if you want to use it (no tax, no line of wholesalers to pay) and mildly harder for morons to get hold of it.

You as usual Hazell got it right. Booze is a known quantity. If Marjuana was made legal, they would have to ensure that all joints were at a known quantity of THC. That is one of the issues that would make think a legal use of the stuff would solve that issue. It wouldn't change the illicit criminals that make a living making it available to the stupid and unwary tho. They would still push cocaine, meth and other wonderful mind altering subtances. They just use the weed to work as a gateway drug.

I have one reason I am for legalization: Most of the attraction is the fact it is illegal. Take that away, and half the cachet is lost. However...maybe that would just make ecstacy, Meth and the rest more attractive.

Society wouldn't gain much positive by making it legal. Sorry, I wont buy the argument is harmless. IN moderate use yes, but anyone really pushing hard for the legalization in my experience usually sounds like they are half as sleep and have no memory. A stereotype? No....a truth from what I have seen. Furthermore, here is the dirty little secret: Most people who use pot recreationally have their own sources of the stuff, usually a buddy who does a little hydroponics in his basement. They don't WANT it legalized, and they just want to be left alone. In Canada, it isn't legal per se, but it is decriminalized for possession of small amounts. Therefore, if you are just a guy with a hydroponics op of a couple plants, you supply yourself and you not being bothered by the law unless you are selling or making large amounts of it. you do your own thing..un taxed. How libertarian.....

You make it legal, the politicians will tax the snot out of it, just like they do booze...so make it legal at your peril dopers...

ME? I cannot touch the stuff, I don't even like the smell of it and I have to pass a drug test to be a commerical driver. That said, decriminalizing small amounts for personal use while still working to stamp out illegal drug operations and smugglers is still a good thing.

[MrJan]

What amazes me is how badly this 'war on drugs'(everything is a war these days, the Government are so violent ;) ) is going. I know very few people who haven't at least had a toke on a joint and when I spent New Years at a club in London last year I could barely move without someone saying 'pills or powder mate?' or 'you need pills?'.

Although there is apparently a clamp down on drugs you can go to almost any club on a Saturday night and pick out a big group of people who are high as f***. It's not even like many of them disguise it well, a few weeks ago I spoke to a bloke who was desperate to tell me he had done coke for the first time that night (suppose that speaking to everyone is sort of a side effect of it anyway). Messing about wondering if Cannabis should be bumped back up to class B should be the last thing people are worrying about but then I guess that going after the class A stuff is a bit more tricky.

[Mark in Oshawa]

What amazes me is how badly this 'war on drugs'(everything is a war these days, the Government are so violent ;) ) is going. I know very few people who haven't at least had a toke on a joint and when I spent New Years at a club in London last year I could barely move without someone saying 'pills or powder mate?' or 'you need pills?'.

Although there is apparently a clamp down on drugs you can go to almost any club on a Saturday night and pick out a big group of people who are high as f***. It's not even like many of them disguise it well, a few weeks ago I spoke to a bloke who was desperate to tell me he had done coke for the first time that night (suppose that speaking to everyone is sort of a side effect of it anyway). Messing about wondering if Cannabis should be bumped back up to class B should be the last thing people are worrying about but then I guess that going after the class A stuff is a bit more tricky.

It isn't as common over here. Canada is more tolerant than the US but we still don't have people walking around in pubs pushing drugs either.

Cannabis would lose half of it's allure if it was legal. So I really am ok with it either way, but the war on drugs must be fought, even if in the UK it is apparent no one cares to really put the effort in....

[MrJan]

It isn't as common over here. Canada is more tolerant than the US but we still don't have people walking around in pubs pushing drugs either.

That's not how I saw it when I was over on a holiday. Maybe it was because I was staying in a frat house but weed seemed to be absolutely everywhere so I can only assume that more hardcore stuff is too.

[Mark in Oshawa]

That's not how I saw it when I was over on a holiday. Maybe it was because I was staying in a frat house but weed seemed to be absolutely everywhere so I can only assume that more hardcore stuff is too.]


Well it has been a while since I hung out with University students, but I do know drugs were NOT pushed in the open. I am sure if I wanted to imbibe, I could find out where to get them back then. I am sure it isn't radically different now. A recent study in Canada said drug use among the youth was actually down a bit......

[Hazell B]

What amazes me is how badly this 'war on drugs' ..... is going.

I'm still shocked they call it a war.
Wars are winnable ;)

Anyway, last weekend I was given a kilo of dried mintly stuff (for my horse to eat) while in my shop. Without a second thought I put it under the counter to let the lovely aroma fill the entire auction hall my shop's part of.

Nobody mistook the smell, everyone knew exactly what pot smelled like. They didn't, however, know what mint was and almost all said "I know it's not drugs, so what's that smell?"

Just goes to show how common a joint is here in the UK.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm still shocked they call it a war.
Wars are winnable ;)

Even Asa Hutchinson, who has agrued in favor of the ban on marijuana and hemp (anybody know the reason for that?), admits that was one of Nixon's biggest errors in launching this action. Just as you said, wars are winnable. And what's more, calling something a "war" implies violence.

But here's what I think we'll do: we'll just keep doing what hasn't worked for the past 40 years. Ya know, maybe one of these days, what didn't work yesterday will maybe work tomorrow. That's the definition for something.