Dick Ebersol of NBC Sports

[SportscarBruce]

I feel this video has importance beyond the topic of the 2016 Olympics and the USOC, it sheds some light on the character of Dick Ebersol and reinforces my belief NBC Sports would make a great broadcasting partner for the Indy 500 and IndyCar as the Comcast/NBC Universal merger goes forward;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Og-oJnPxA

[Mark in Oshawa]

He is of good character. He also thought the XFL was a good idea. Arena Football? He thought putting that on Network TV was a good idea too. Those Olympics Rights that NBC has? Probably overpaid for those. Dick is a good man, but he isn't always the sharpest knife in the drawer on picking the next big thing on TV sports and he isn't always the best business man either. Do I think he is the right guy to put Indycar's on their network? Actually, if the price is right, yes he is. The broadcasts themselves will be well done, but it is still up to Indycar to catch the public eye in a meaningful way.

Dick himself? well, don't anoint him the saviour if Comcast buys NBC. As I said, he has had his share of failures...

[SportscarBruce]

There is also Sunday Night Football which reset the standard of prime time NFL.

http://www.staatalent.com/Headlines/09/10/06snf.php

If there are failures to be illuminated within sports the biggest among them are the least spoken in these here parts...

[call_me_andrew]

The XFL was a great idea with poor execution. And by poor execution, I mean the camera in the cheerleader's lockerroom, the human coin toss, and no fair catch.

But to be fair, NBC's NASCAR coverage was awful.

[SportscarBruce]

Oh yes, and Fox Sports/Speed's Hee-Haw meets Tron style of coverage has really set the gold standard for sports broadcasting...

[call_me_andrew]

I'm not saying Fox's coverage is good. It's actually quite bad. But NBC still managed to do a worse job.

[SportscarBruce]

Here's an example of broadcast race coverage apart from their NASCAR involvement;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKr_RFEA0h0

That, along with the appreciation of content material and professionalism displayed in their Olympics and NFC material, displays a potential partner capable of taking IndyCar back into worldwide prominence.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The XFL was a great idea with poor execution. And by poor execution, I mean the camera in the cheerleader's lockerroom, the human coin toss, and no fair catch.

But to be fair, NBC's NASCAR coverage was awful.

No fair catch is a GREAT idea....you Americans are such wimps asking for a fair catch...lol

You are right on the rest of it tho. The only thing saving the NASCAR on NBC broadcasts was the late Benny Parsons for me....he always was and is my favourite color man in the sport.

[call_me_andrew]

No fair catch is a GREAT idea....you Americans are such wimps asking for a fair catch...lol

You are right on the rest of it tho. The only thing saving the NASCAR on NBC broadcasts was the late Benny Parsons for me....he always was and is my favourite color man in the sport.

XFL players (and aparently officials too) didn't understand the halo rule. That just results in unnecessary hits on punt returners. And I do think it would be nice if the fair catch kick played a bigger role in the game.

[Mark in Oshawa]

XFL players (and aparently officials too) didn't understand the halo rule. That just results in unnecessary hits on punt returners. And I do think it would be nice if the fair catch kick played a bigger role in the game.

The CFL never had the fair catch. Nothing is more dull to me than watching a guy call a fair catch. Waste of 15 seconds on the clock. Halo rules are not tough to understand if the effort is made...no punt returner gets smacked around much. Believe me, if the ref called no yards and a unneccessary roughness for 15 yards, they would get it....

the No fair catch was the only good idea the XFL had....

[SportscarBruce]

Applying a WWE presentation style while accentuating gratuitous violence at the expense of the sport's integrity is the exact reason the XFL failed and it mirrors the reason NASCAR's PR answerbots spend countless hours countering the complaints of long-time fans on practically every racing-racing web board and blog on the net. It's the reason NASCAR's rating have been sliding downward for years now. Dick Ebersol learned his lesson with that XFL experiment and that's one of the reasons I trust his network.

[call_me_andrew]

The XFL was a victim of its own hype. Once the viewers realized that the supposed NFL compeditor only had minor league caliber players, they left and didn't come back. And the XFL had minor league players because they paid minor league money. The USFL lasted as long as it did because its salaries were compeditive with the NFL and managed to steal a few college stars away. It later collapsed due to overexpansion and Donald Trump's ego, but it was a fun ride.


The CFL never had the fair catch. Nothing is more dull to me than watching a guy call a fair catch. Waste of 15 seconds on the clock. Halo rules are not tough to understand if the effort is made...no punt returner gets smacked around much. Believe me, if the ref called no yards and a unneccessary roughness for 15 yards, they would get it....

the No fair catch was the only good idea the XFL had....

Halo rules work in the CFL because the field is larger. If the punter is close to midfield he can just kick it long and hope for the single, sacrificing hang time.

I think we went way off topic, but the topic wasn't that great to start with.

[SportscarBruce]

Hype and a product reconfigured to the point of lost authenticity might make people look, but it's not a recipe for enduring success. The presence of top level stars doesn't guarantee it either. In fact such an association can backfire, negatively affecting the star's reputation, marketing power, and historical placement.

"Gotta keep it real." Words to live by.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I watch NFL games every now and then, but I've never heard about this XFL. What was exactly the problem its creation was meant to solve? What was the market gap it was meant to fill?

[SportscarBruce]

The XFL was a victim of its own hype. Once the viewers realized that the supposed NFL compeditor only had minor league caliber players, they left and didn't come back. And the XFL had minor league players because they paid minor league money. The USFL lasted as long as it did because its salaries were compeditive with the NFL and managed to steal a few college stars away. It later collapsed due to overexpansion and Donald Trump's ego, but it was a fun ride.

I respectfully disagree. The NFL played a major role in killing both the USFL and the CFL's intrusion into the US market. I remember when the USFL v NFL antitrust lawsuit went to trial the sports media industry's blatant favoritism didn't subside, it got worse! And for the NFL it worked.

OTOH the XFL was never a threat to the NFL because, simply put, the XFL was a product so gimmicked up on the field and on TV no one took it seriously.

While I like the prospects of a NBC+Comcast+IndyCar broadcast partnership I don't believe it can realistically challenge NASCAR for supremacy based on that possibility alone. However, I believe such a scenario would place it a perfect position to capitalize should NASCAR's reach the tipping point, which I believe that will ultimately be the case.

[SportscarBruce]

I watch NFL games every now and then, but I've never heard about this XFL. What was exactly the problem its creation was meant to solve? What was the market gap it was meant to fill?

XFL was a bizzare experiment combining American football to pro wrestling's marketing formula. It died an ugly, but in hindsight merciful, death.


The league was founded by Vince McMahon, better known as the owner of the World Wrestling Entertainment. The XFL was intended to be a major professional sports league complement to the offseason of the NFL, but failed to find an audience and folded after its first season.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL

[call_me_andrew]

It's the off season, Starter.

[garyshell]

Then take the football messages to the ChitChat forum here or a football forum somewhere else.

Gary

[Chaparral66]

Comcast buying NBC, virtually replacing Direct TV and giving the IRL to more homes through a real network other than just VS, unquestionably pulled the IRL's TV chestnuts out of the fire. What will be interesting to me is if ABC will want to hold on to a few races, particularly the Indy 500, beyond the current contract. There is recent precedent for sharing coverage of races on TV, be it open wheel, sportscar, or even NASCAR, so this isn't an oddball concept by any means.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I respectfully disagree. The NFL played a major role in killing both the USFL and the CFL's intrusion into the US market. .

The CFL was long gone before the XFL. The teams were too far away from the rest of Canada and not well run. It was a naive idea that died when Larry Smith was ousted as the league commissioner. That said, Baltimore won a Grey Cup. that isn't right..lol



While I like the prospects of a NBC+Comcast+IndyCar broadcast partnership I don't believe it can realistically challenge NASCAR for supremacy based on that possibility alone. However, I believe such a scenario would place it a perfect position to capitalize should NASCAR's reach the tipping point, which I believe that will ultimately be the case.

Long way to go before that, but at least it is a theory.....

[Chaparral66]

As long as Comcast(VS)/NBC understands they are not going to bring down the NASCAR juggernaut overnight, they should do well with the IRL as long as they have patience and promote it along with the league's and IZOD's efforts. Obviously NASCAR isn't going anywhere so the point here is not to beat NASCAR (that's not gonna happen) but merely co-exsist, and allow them to shoot themselves in the foot.

[call_me_andrew]

How about this: If the IRL could scrape the cash together, it could buy up a few drivers from NASCAR; just like the USFL.

[Chaparral66]

Kinda like what NASCAR did with CART? :p :

Yeah, kinda, LOL. But NASCAR won't go down quite like or as fast as CART did.

[Mark in Oshawa]

NASCAR shoot themselves in the foot? No...that was OW racing.. The split was the first round, and every year another shot was fired. Now the patient is on life support. I cannot envision anyone connected with NASCAR being that stupid.

[garyshell]

NASCAR shoot themselves in the foot? No...that was OW racing.. The split was the first round, and every year another shot was fired. Now the patient is on life support. I cannot envision anyone connected with NASCAR being that stupid.


Can I introduce you to Brian France, another idiot grandson, doing his damnedest to drive his grandfather's legacy into the ditch. Not saying he will, but if you are looking for a character CAPABLE of dong the deed, well here's your man.

Gary

[Chaparral66]

NASCAR shoot themselves in the foot? No...that was OW racing.. The split was the first round, and every year another shot was fired. Now the patient is on life support. I cannot envision anyone connected with NASCAR being that stupid.

OK, now we are at this point in time, where the IMS Grandson spent roughly $600 million buck to build his series, and what do we have?

[SportscarBruce]

OK, now we are at this point in time, where the IMS Grandson spent roughly $600 million buck to build his series, and what do we have?

While the repetitiously mentioned negatives surrounding IndyCar's past and present are founded in truth, taken alone they do not draw a full portrait of the series and its future prospects. In the interest of objectivity this is what we have;

A series that still exist (could be worse, could be extinct)[/*:m:ukouiiku]
A series under independent ownership in lieu of a growth-limited subsidiary product under NASCAR management.
Thus,[/*:m:ukouiiku]
A series still capable of determining its own destiny.[/*:m:ukouiiku]

Furthermore,
[list=2:ukouiiku] A series possessing an advanced, forward-looking track product which embraced the "green" movement years ago and is preparing to re-introduce the notion of fuel efficiency to speedway racing with the next-gen car spec. [/*:m:ukouiiku]
A series who's drivers are on average younger, fitter, leaner, and better looking than the competitions.[/*:m:ukouiiku]
A series that manages to sell tickets to all races, and most importantly its biggest race, in numbers out of proportion to major network partnership promotion and the infrequent, often negatively slanted, coverage within the mainstream media.[/*:m:ukouiiku]
A series that not only produced the most recognizable personality in racing, one Danica Patrick the same personality that NASCAR is pinning its hopes on to reverse a its slide), it is a series willing to give a young 19 y/o girl a shot at the big time, an occurrence unlikely amid the good ol' boy/dues paying/myopic to change attitudes prevalent in the stock cars series. In short, a series that presents opportunity.[/*:m:ukouiiku]
A series which survived through the worst of split-era economics and business politics to emerge on the other side united, resilient, and perhaps most importantly wiser. Wiser to the unseen machinations and thinly veiled acts of skullduggery practiced by ethically compromised elements within the big-bucks world of professional sports. [/*:m:ukouiiku][/list:o:ukouiiku]

Certainly this post will elicit responses ranging from skepticism to outright dismissal on part of those incapable of commenting in an objective manner. Changing those minds is an exercise in futility, that is not my objective. To those possessing a mind unpoisoned by split-era hate, racing series fan prejudice, or professional loyalty, let me offer you this; while embracing these opinions in their entirety is as unrealistic a proposition as wholesale rejection, it is my hope you will at least acknowledge the validity of some and the possibility of others.

When next week's winners and losers, or next months, or next year's are predetermined by action of invisible hands either directly or through the preservation of an anti-competitive environment, then racing suffers because of one simple fact - the very word race assumes the existence of genuine competition. In the absence of genuine competition racing is not racing, it's little more than a farce.

By the same token free enterprise cannot exist in the absence of competition. As a society built upon notions such as equal opportunity, honest competition, and free enterprise, if we cast aside these principles we all risk being remembered in the pages of history as subjects living on the dying corpse of a farce regime.

Perhaps I see more in all this than most, but that in and of itself does not make these views wrong.

[Lee Roy]

Oh goody, a NASCAR bash.

Hey, I remember being on some racing forum during the late 1990's and an AOWR fan telling me that after the year 2000, NASCAR would fold and CART would be the dominant racing series in the US. Wonder where this guy is today?

Don't worry guys, Brian France may not be the manager that his father or grand-father was, but he certainly isn't "drool on your shirt stupid" like all of the people who have been involved with AOWR management (CART/Champ Car/IRL) over the past 20 years.

And as far as the NBC/COMCAST deal goes, it's just the next thing for Indy Car fans to blame their favorite series' lack of commercial success on. Add it to the long list of things that has caused Indy Car's woes: the split; ABC/ESPN; Toyota & Honda; Track Owners; etc. etc.

[Chaparral66]

You make some good points, Bruce. Open wheel racing has survived. It has produced a history making driver in Danica Patrick. The IRL finally has a sponsor, and the TV contract, once thought a real dud, now shows some promise due to NBC coming in.

But do we want merely survival? Yes, Danica Patrick is media magnet, but NASCAR has many. The TV contract is certainly better, but pales in comparison to NASCAR. Call it negative if you want, but the open wheel war cost th sport many fans who were pissed off at being ignored while a bunch of rich guys had a financial catfight. The sport is still hurting, and will need a lot of time to heal.

In posing my question, I was really asking what do we have and where do we go with it from here? I'm interested in hearing more about that. The NBC deal with help, but wat else can be done; in terms of promotion, venues, car development, and how can we get fans to care about open wheel racing again?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Oh goody, a NASCAR bash.

Hey, I remember being on some racing forum during the late 1990's and an AOWR fan telling me that after the year 2000, NASCAR would fold and CART would be the dominant racing series in the US. Wonder where this guy is today?

Don't worry guys, Brian France may not be the manager that his father or grand-father was, but he certainly isn't "drool on your shirt stupid" like all of the people who have been involved with AOWR management (CART/Champ Car/IRL) over the past 20 years.

And as far as the NBC/COMCAST deal goes, it's just the next thing for Indy Car fans to blame their favorite series' lack of commercial success on. Add it to the long list of things that has caused Indy Car's woes: the split; ABC/ESPN; Toyota & Honda; Track Owners; etc. etc.

Lee Roy, I can only find fault with your last paragraph. I think most of us blame the lack of success on the split. The rest are symptoms but the bad blood, the confusion in the media marketplace and the alienation of advertisers from the split is what destroyed AOWR.

Brian France hasn't killed NASCAR, he just happens to be president when it has plateaued. Any "slide" is percentage points off a zero growth situation, but the fact remains Cup races get about 10 to 14 times the viewers week to week compared to the IRL. Purses are about 10 times bigger and the fact remains, chase or no chase, NASCAR's recent plateau is as much to do with the general economy and saturation of the market as anything.

There isn't one thing you can point to that definatevely says NASCAR is putting things in the ditch. The funny part is, now the IRL cant point to one thing because it is in the ditch. Bad TV contract? That is from erosion of interest. Poor purses? Lack of sponsors due to erosion of Interest. Tired cars with no technological growth or variety? Lack of money and a desire to keep parity. THAT is bad management for sure. The point is, the IRL cannot look at NASCAR and see weaknesses and hope to exploit them because they are so far behind NASCAR they would do well to just build the best product they can and go their own way.

As for Danica going to NASCAR? I am going to say right now NASCAR doesn't need Danica to "grow." IF Danica was the be all and end all for growth, again explain to me all the fans she brought to the sport in the last 4 years. They are NOT there.....if they were, we wouldn't be watching VS for all the races outside of Indy and afew select morsels.

[call_me_andrew]

That's just the thing, Mark. Before Brian France came along, NASCAR was growing like The Blob. Today: not so much.

[SportscarBruce]

Big Bill France began life turning wrenches in a garage. He wasn't an MBA or Marketing Exec. but he had a natural business instinct. Big Bill recognized when to clamp down with a firm hand, sometimes even two hands. Just as importantly he knew when to let go. Big Bill France was very effective at cultivating relationships within circles of power from Detroit to New York. On occasion he agreed to shift NASCAR's direction because he agreed with the suggestion's validity but he also knew well enough to keep his associate's hands off NASCAR's steering wheel. From upside down and up close with an oil pan to the blade and bulldozer to the boardroom Big Bill knew stock car racing.

Bill France Sr. also welcomed sports cars onto his Daytona track without demanding a say in how they ran the sport or how they built their cars. When IMSA grew from a loose association into a race marketing juggernaut drawing huge manufacturer budgets while staging a majority of their events on temporary circuits, a business model combining all that is viewed as the bane of superspeedway stock car racing today, he just left them alone. Big Bill didn't kick them out of Daytona with the rulebook. He didn't attempt to block the Miami Grand Prix by filing frivilous lawsuits. Bill France Jr. simply focused on managing his own sport. Eventually IMSA imploded on it's own accord. And what did he do a few years later? Enshrine several of IMSA's greatest drivers in the Motorsport Hall of Fame and Museum.

Bill France Sr. was feared by some but he was respected by all, fans included. And for good reason too. By virtue of his character which shown through in all areas of involvement he earned respect.

Then came the Bill France Jr. era, the Mike Helton years, and NASCAR under Brian France. There's a common thread through them all, becoming more all the more readily apparent with each succession. Micromanagement of the rulebook and the course of race officiating. An adversarial approach to major racing series founded on pure, unapologetic greed. Greed for power. Greed for exclusive access to the racing sponsorship money well. Motor sport used to be a community. There was Speedworld on ESPN. Race Week magazine. Car mags shifting focus from one series to the next one issue to the next. Everybody benefited because in that era single series fans weren't nearly as predominant as they are today. Not only was fan crossover far more common than today, it was also the case among mechanics and engineers.

The modern era, which historians might as well entitle the Leverage Era, has witness the dramatic changes. What was once a mutually beneficial sports category is now a splintered, Balkanized, cuttthroat, affair in the press is so bought it's press in name only, The TV network that grew in spite of all that was allegedly wrong with it's motor sport content, that too has been subjected to a hostile takeover and disfigurement as part of an overall market domination strategy. No regard for those who built the station, no respect for the fans or ther racing series with the possible exception of F1. Hey, it adds some class to the decor and F1's Bernie is so ruthless, manipulative, and inwardly focused he's a soulmate. Kinda like mutual appreciation among mob bosses.

Lastly, and most importantly in terms of the future, there exist a stubborn resistance toward any and all concerns or suggestions eminating from the people of racing, be they team engineers and owners, drivers, long-tenured commentators, or fans. This pattern is suggestive of a disdainful, status-obsessive management structure detatched from the real-world people who make their series run day in, day out and so inwardly insecure that to even entertain the possibility one of them has a better idea that one of us, why even it that became the unavoidable conclusion there's no way it'll be acted on.

The university educated, well dressed Mad Ave set, now that's another matter. Peer acceptance by these magicians of money boost the ego and there's no shame in steering the sport in lockstep to their slickly presented research data and emerging audience targeting strategies.

Research indicates a huge majority hasn't a clue what's under the hood and doesn't give a hoot on issues such as race car/street car technological relavance or badged product identification.

Thus;

The most widely criticized racing car in modern times (likely of all time), the COT, is not going anywhere.

Marketing states:

Crashes and driver personalities drives the sport, frequent commercial inturruption is not detrimental so long as the same on-track heros are pitching products during the break.

Actual quality of racing is a concern chiefly held by a miniscule, abet vocal, fanbase minority.

Thus

Pack racing, debrit cautions, commercials every 5 minutes, eyeglaring graphics, BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP, loud and shrill television host are here to stay. In fact expect more of the above.


And so on and so forth. To summarize these boys, by virtue of birthright and sports marketing expertise, can do no wrong and you and I or any other racing lowlife can say no right when it comes to racing. Well, aside from Lee Roy and Mark F.O. Do youall share the same script with Dave Despain? :p : :rolleyes:

Personally Lee Roy I'm not a NASCAR sport hater, used to be a fan actually back in the 1980's. it's just the bozos up there in the glass towers, what they've to the entire fabric of racing in the US along with the COT joke and intelligence-insulting marketing approach that draw my ire.
:mad:

And so I'm willing make this prediction; On or before year 4 of a NBC/IndyCar broadcasting and promotional effort (which would compare to roughly one half of NewsCorp/Disney's NASCAR media platform) I predict someone in a suit will backflip into Lake Lloyd. If an adult doesn't step in beforehand that is. :p

[SportscarBruce]

Big Bill France began life turning wrenches in a garage. He wasn't an MBA or Marketing Exec. but he had a natural business instinct. Big Bill recognized when to clamp down with a firm hand, sometimes even two hands. Just as importantly he knew when to let go. Big Bill France was very effective at cultivating relationships within circles of power from Detroit to New York. On occasion he agreed to shift NASCAR's direction because he agreed with the suggestion's validity but he also knew well enough to keep his associate's hands off NASCAR's steering wheel. From upside down and up close with an oil pan to the blade and bulldozer to the boardroom Big Bill knew stock car racing.

Bill France Sr. also welcomed sports cars onto his Daytona track without demanding a say in how they ran the sport or how they built their cars. When IMSA grew from a loose association into a race marketing juggernaut drawing huge manufacturer budgets while staging a majority of their events on temporary circuits, a business model combining all that is viewed as the bane of superspeedway stock car racing today, he just left them alone. Big Bill didn't kick them out of Daytona with the rulebook. He didn't attempt to block the Miami Grand Prix by filing frivilous lawsuits. Bill France Sr. simply focused on managing his own sport. Eventually IMSA imploded on it's own accord. And what did he do a few years later? Rub their nose in it, as would be expected today? Big Bill France enshrine several of IMSA's greatest drivers in the Motorsport Hall of Fame and Museum.

Bill France Sr. was feared by some but he was respected by all, fans included. And for good reason too. By virtue of his character which shown through in all areas of involvement he earned respect.

Then came the Bill France Jr. era, the Mike Helton years, and NASCAR under Brian France. There's a common thread through them all, becoming all the more readily apparent with each succession. Micromanagement of the rulebook and the course of race officiating. An adversarial approach to major racing series founded on pure, unapologetic greed. Greed for power. Greed for exclusive access to the racing sponsorship money well. Motor sport used to be a community. There was Speedworld on ESPN. Race Week magazine. Car mags shifting focus from one series to the next one issue to the next. Everybody benefited because in that era single series fans weren't nearly as predominant as they are today. Not only was fan crossover far more common than today, it was also the case among mechanics and engineers.

The modern era, which historians might as well entitle the Leverage Era, has witness the dramatic changes. What was once a mutually beneficial sports category is now a splintered, Balkanized, cuttthroat, affair in the press is so bought it's press in name only, The TV network that grew in spite of all that was allegedly wrong with it's motor sport content, that too has been subjected to a hostile takeover and disfigurement as part of an overall market domination strategy. No regard for those who built the station, no respect for the fans or ther racing series with the possible exception of F1. Hey, it adds some class to the decor and F1's Bernie is so ruthless, manipulative, and inwardly focused he's a soulmate. Kinda like mutual appreciation among mob bosses.

Lastly, and most importantly in terms of the future, there exist a stubborn resistance toward any and all concerns or suggestions eminating from the people of racing, be they team engineers and owners, drivers, long-tenured commentators, or fans. This pattern is suggestive of a disdainful, status-obsessive management structure detatched from the real-world people who make their series run day in, day out and so inwardly insecure that to even entertain the possibility one of them has a better idea that one of us, why even it that became the unavoidable conclusion there's no way it'll be acted on.

The university educated, well dressed Mad Ave set, now that's another matter. Peer acceptance by these magicians of money boost the ego and there's no shame in steering the sport in lockstep to their slickly presented research data and emerging audience targeting strategies.

Research indicates a huge majority hasn't a clue what's under the hood and doesn't give a hoot on issues such as race car/street car technological relavance or badged product identification.

Thus;

The most widely criticized racing car in modern times (likely of all time), the COT, is not going anywhere.

Marketing states:

Crashes and driver personalities drives the sport, frequent commercial inturruption is not detrimental so long as the same on-track heros are pitching products during the break.

Actual quality of racing is a concern chiefly held by a miniscule, abet vocal, fanbase minority.

Thus

Pack racing, debrit cautions, commercials every 5 minutes, eyeglaring graphics, BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP, loud and shrill television host are here to stay. In fact expect more of the above.


And so on and so forth. To summarize these boys, by virtue of birthright and sports marketing expertise, can do no wrong and you and I or any other racing lowlife can say no right when it comes to racing. Well, aside from Lee Roy and Mark F.O. Do youall share the same script with Dave Despain? :p : :rolleyes:

Personally Lee Roy I'm not a NASCAR sport hater, used to be a fan actually back in the 1980's. it's just the bozos up there in the glass towers, what they've to the entire fabric of racing in the US along with the COT joke and intelligence-insulting marketing approach that draw my ire.
:mad:

And so I'm willing make this prediction; On or before year 4 of a NBC/IndyCar broadcasting and promotional effort (which would compare to roughly one half of NewsCorp/Disney's NASCAR media platform) I predict someone in a suit will backflip into Lake Lloyd. If an adult doesn't step in beforehand that is. :p

[SportscarBruce]

I believe the fundamental flaw behind 'cars-don't-matter' conclusions is a fundamental misunderstanding of how brand aura propagates from the racing circuit to the showroom.

Imagine a random sampling of racetrack spectators whom are asked a series of questions intended to gauge ability to discern differences between badge n sticker engineering to actual competition, i.e. stock block, improved over stock block, prototype engine possessing readily identifiable DNA . Based on raw numbers there must be a tendency to conclude most can't tell the difference, thereby the only competition participating manufacturers need to concern themselves with involves ink pens and checkbooks.

What the reseacher must understand in order to make an informed opinion is the path brand aura takes from the racetrack reputation birthplace to the general public to the showroom buyer. Bring up Ferrari and everyone understands what the brand represents. Maybe one out of a thousand could point out why Ferraris are inherently fast and are routinely victorious on the racetrack, but one is enough. He talks to someone who talks to someone else who also happened to read about last weekends's dominating result in the paper or on the web. Back when I was 18 I became a huge Mopar fan due in large part to Richard Petty's Road Runner. That aero sleek body made so many winner circle appearances it became routine. I didn't know why the car won, all that mattered is the aura of race wins and close enough resemblance. So I first bought a '72 (318ci) and later a '74. (440 wedge) :) . A 426 "Hemi" powered car was my ultimate, abet unattainable dream. At present I understand why a Hemi out-performed the competitors from Ford and GM, but back then I didn't have a clue. It had the "aura", and that was enough.

If what I hear is correct the four-cyl turbo formula is intended as a production-based racing exercise. Good move. Anyone care to guess what an Audi A4t IndyCar package would look like? :D

[Lee Roy]

Personally Lee Roy I'm not a NASCAR sport hater,

Yes you are. And all the rest of your post that I deleted is just a bunch of long winded gibberish that only makes sense in your mind.

[SportscarBruce]

Yes you are. And all the rest of your post that I deleted is just a bunch of long winded gibberish that only makes sense in your mind.
After losing two post in a row to a mousepad/keyboard gremlin I just threw it up there sans spellchecking or proofreading. I'll pretty it up for smoother eyeball digestion if you like.
:D

[garyshell]

Yes you are. And all the rest of your post that I deleted is just a bunch of long winded gibberish that only makes sense in your mind.


Oh, so now you are a mind reader too, as well as an apologist for Brian? Maybe it didn't make sense to you. But trust me, it made a lot of sense to others besides Bruce, and I grew up with NASCAR in my blood since my uncle drove in the series.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

See, we risk danger of Starter putting this whole last page on the NASCAR page; but let me wade in a little.

First off, Bruce, your assertion that the sport has changed is correct. Racing is a business now and a sport second. It was a sport and a business in the 70's and early 80's and while you long for those days, it isn't going to happen.

Secondly, To say NASCAR not growing now is all Brian's fault is a joke. Nothing grows forever. NASCAR isn't the BORG collective. There are limits to its market penetration and they simply have reached close to them. They race for 36 weekends a year with 10 to 15 times the ratings of any other form of motorsport on US TV. To call THAT a failure is the same sort of useless spin politicians use to defend their feckless initiatives. NASCAR drivers earn more than most in any other sport, the ad revenues and TV contracts are in excess of most sporting properties in the US, and despite the criticism of the product, I didn't see a massive drop off in fan's showing at the track this year that you couldn't just put down to the general malaise in the economy.

For this debate to be taking place on the Indy Car board is laughable at best. Indycar was run by idiots on both sides of the divide at various times, and it was the split itself that killed this form of racing for all intensive purposes. It is contested now by teams capable of building their own mods and using their abilities to create far more interesting cars than they are, and it is hampered by a lack of commericial and ad revenues to the point where there is no choices left. The TV package is sucking, but at least watchable, provided you can find it, and the high ground of popularity was thrown away.

For ANY Indycar fan to take potshots at NASCAR with all this is just laughable.

I say this as a CART stalwart, who became a man firmly for the merger (without Tony George...that didn't happen til last summer); who eventually had started watching more NASCAR.

Why? Product, great characters, good TV and no political wrangling. Despite all the criticism of Brian France and his ineptitude (compared to Tony, he is a rocket scientest), NASCAR isn't failing, is still changing to adapt to new markets (hello Canada...bout time you got up here NASCAR) and is allowing the Nationwide series to morph into something more than Cup lite.

What is happening in the IRL? Talk of a new car and engine in a couple of years, a half @ssed attempt to run another street race in Brazil, and......trying to hang onto Danica? Listen, if Danica is the solution, how come the IRL's ratings, TV contracts and general interest still wane? Katharine Legge got a week solid of great publicity when she wrecked in CCWS action at Road America and then the world ignored her and the CCWS again. With Danica, the effect is much the same. The idea that one personality with a pretty face can save the sport when the product isn't appealing to the masses is just not working.

Nothing wrong with the IRL that having 26 cars every week and any one of 20 capable of winning woudln't fix. Put them on tracks that allow them to race with a package that allows competition would be a great start too......so far...we have none of that.

[Will Rogers]

Bruce: a couple of times on this thread you've used the sequence of letters "abet" when I think what you mean to type is "albeit"