Four police shot dead in ambush

[Valve Bounce]

This is incredible: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,26418816-2,00.html?from=igoogle+gadget+compact+news_rss
"Local media later reported that the victims - three men and one woman - were in full uniform, including bulletproof vests, when they were shot. "

This appears to be some sort of police operation gone terribly wrong; it is almost like a scene that is even too audacious for The Wire. It does appear that the four police were executed.

I was stunned over the announcement that the police have offered a $10,000 reward for information leading to the killers. I don't think even a million dollar reward would bring forth a single peep from anyone who has even the slightest knowledge or saw what happened.

[gloomyDAY]

Holy cow! Vengeance?

Whatever the motive may the perp get caught and brought to justice.

RIP

[Mark in Oshawa]

THey may not have the death penalty in Washington State, but I can bet if the suspect is ever cornered by the cops, he will get that sentence.

What a horrible tragedy. It is obvious tho this was a planned hit and there is some sort of op that went wrong....

[leopard]

Horrible incident... Not much women drink coffee, she would have been better to arrange and supervise traffic... indeed it was unlucky being there in the incident for the said policewoman...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Horrible incident... Not much women drink coffee, she would have been better to arrange and supervise traffic... indeed it was unlucky being there in the incident for the said policewoman...

That is a tasteless and sexist remark. It is actually thought the four slain were working on a common case. Whether women should like coffee or not is immaterial. This has to be one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum and I am of the opinion I will just tune you out from now on with any posts you have. Thinking a police woman should be directing traffic instead of being a police officer in the same manner any man is is just a silly notion and sexist to boot. She deserves an honourable funeral and burial with her male comrades.

When a cop dies, no one mourns more or less if it is a woman. Any killer willing to kill 4 cops in cold blood obviously must be caught, and is a threat to society. If you will kill 4 cops wearing bulletproof vests in cold blood with head shots, you would kill anyone.

[Valve Bounce]

That is a tasteless and sexist remark. It is actually thought the four slain were working on a common case. Whether women should like coffee or not is immaterial. This has to be one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum and I am of the opinion I will just tune you out from now on with any posts you have. Thinking a police woman should be directing traffic instead of being a police officer in the same manner any man is is just a silly notion and sexist to boot. She deserves an honourable funeral and burial with her male comrades.

When a cop dies, no one mourns more or less if it is a woman. Any killer willing to kill 4 cops in cold blood obviously must be caught, and is a threat to society. If you will kill 4 cops wearing bulletproof vests in cold blood with head shots, you would kill anyone.

Take it easy Mark. Try to understand where the guy is coming from. There are cultural differences and hence opinions in different parts of the world.

[leopard]

Killing anyone regardless who is the doers or the victims is an obvious crime.
In countries some of which civil is forbidden to own gun, directing traffic on high speed road may be more dangerous jobs. There are numerous accidents involving cops who were on the duty. We should not look down on it...

It’s just only my wish directing traffic on low speed of city drives to involve more policewomen... :)

[Valve Bounce]

Killing anyone regardless who is the doers or the victims is an obvious crime.
In countries some of which civil is forbidden to own gun, directing traffic on high speed road may be more dangerous jobs. There are numerous accidents involving cops who were on the duty. We should not look down on it...

It’s just only my wish directing traffic on low speed of city drives to involve more policewomen... :)

Then I take it your main concern is for the safety of policewomen, am I correct?

[chuck34]

Hate to break up all the sexism. But here's a story on this deal.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/30/washington.police.shooting/index.html

And it looks like this may have implications on the 2012 Presidential race as well, as strange as that sounds.

"Clemmons is a convicted criminal with a long rap sheet who had a 95-year prison sentence commuted in 2000 by then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, said Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer"

[Daniel]

Looks like he may have already been given the death penalty......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8385919.stm

[wedge]

This is incredible: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,26418816-2,00.html?from=igoogle+gadget+compact+news_rss
"Local media later reported that the victims - three men and one woman - were in full uniform, including bulletproof vests, when they were shot. "

This appears to be some sort of police operation gone terribly wrong; it is almost like a scene that is even too audacious for The Wire. It does appear that the four police were executed.

I was stunned over the announcement that the police have offered a $10,000 reward for information leading to the killers. I don't think even a million dollar reward would bring forth a single peep from anyone who has even the slightest knowledge or saw what happened.

A few years ago there was the infamous Washington Sniper terrorising the capital.

PS. Nice to know another Wire fan! David Simon's The Corner and Homicide is recommended reading on the mean streets of Baltimore.

[Valve Bounce]

A few years ago there was the infamous Washington Sniper terrorising the capital.

PS. Nice to know another Wire fan! David Simon's The Corner and Homicide is recommended reading on the mean streets of Baltimore.

I think this is somewhat different to the Washington sniper, who was executed quite recently. Those were random (albeit no less horrifying) killings. This case looked more like an organised execution of the four policemen.

The only case I can think of here was when two police were ambushed and killed by Victor Pierce and others in South Yarra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walsh_Street_police_shootings
This was in retribution for police shootings of robbers over a period of time. Incidentally, Pierce was acquitted, but was later executed outside the PM Cafe (300 metres from where I now live) by none other than Benji Veniamen.

This leads me to ask whether the four police were executed for some specific reason. Why were they wearing bullet proof vests? Is this normal for patrolling police or were they about to carry out a bust and were ambushed before they could start their operation?

[leopard]

Then I take it your main concern is for the safety of policewomen, am I correct?
Safety of everyone, please refer to the first phrase, whoever kill someone deserves punishment, murder amongst civil let alone non civil kill civil will be punished greater, they exist to protect and to serve civil...

I just follow common rules to keep woman and children in the safest place... just like when the Titanic went under the sea Jack (Leo) died for the sake of Rose...

[Roamy]

they knew this guy was a bad actor and should have put him to death long ago. so now pay the price lefties!!!!

condolences to the families for a crime that never should have happened. I haven't listened in details so I can't comment on Huckabee's commuting of the sentence. But obviously this guy should have been put to death long ago!!

[Daniel]

they knew this guy was a bad actor and should have put him to death long ago. so now pay the price lefties!!!!

condolences to the families for a crime that never should have happened. I haven't listened in details so I can't comment on Huckabee's commuting of the sentence. But obviously this guy should have been put to death long ago!!
It's easy to say such things in retrospect Fousto......

[Roamy]

[/LIST]
It's easy to say such things in retrospect Fousto......

retropect???? how many times do you need to read the book??????

Kill violent criminals ................................... are there enough periods that you get the hint????

[Valve Bounce]

It's easy to say such things in retrospect Fousto......

Not really retrospect. The guy was given a 99 year sentence before he was paroled. If the parole buggers had researched into why he was given a 99 year sentence, then he never should have been up for parole. This is not rocket science.

[Camelopard]

yep, shoot him on sight, that'll learn him.



ummmm are you actually sure he is the guy wanted for this? has he been positively ,absolutely put at the scene of the crime?


(playing devil's advocate here.)

[Daniel]

Not really retrospect. The guy was given a 99 year sentence before he was paroled. If the parole buggers had researched into why he was given a 99 year sentence, then he never should have been up for parole. This is not rocket science.
I mean that it's easy to say that now if he's really the guy who did the deed but it's as useful as me saying that the US should have killed Ozzie Bin Laden when he visited the USA.

[Valve Bounce]

I mean that it's easy to say that now if he's really the guy who did the deed but it's as useful as me saying that the US should have killed Ozzie Bin Laden when he visited the USA.

Had he been identified then as a terrorist organiser already? Then yeah!! let's shoot the guy.

[beachgirl]

This leads me to ask whether the four police were executed for some specific reason. Why were they wearing bullet proof vests? Is this normal for patrolling police or were they about to carry out a bust and were ambushed before they could start their operation?

In my area of the country, bulletproof vests are mandatory for every policeperson, state and local, regardless of what duty they're on. The vests go on before they go out the door. And desk-duty police have them too. A very, very sad statement on our world, but at least it's a modicum of protection for them. Unfortunately, not enough for the four in Washington State.

RIP.

[wedge]

Any more information on the circumstances on the shooting of the suspect or is this more likely, ahem, *dons liberal hat* an execution?

[janvanvurpa]

Any more information on the circumstances on the shooting of the suspect or is this more likely, ahem, *dons liberal hat* an execution?

Not at all!
He was shot...................vhile trying to escape.
Verrry interestink, unt vhere haft vi heard zat before? Hmmmmmm!


Naturlisch, the officer followed all procedure. He shouted, he says SHOW ME YOUR HANDS and he said "the suspect didn't and began to run arund the car...."

We all knew it would go this way.
(This is very close by to where I am, I go by the town it occurred about 24 miles from here routinely, its a dump)

[gloomyDAY]

I don't know why, but I laughed when I read the suspect was killed.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-police-shooting2-2009dec02,0,7940378.story

May have to do with the fact that Maurice was caught attending to a stolen car.
This punk just could not stay away from trouble.

[Roamy]

Kudos to the police officer who offed this POS. No spendy trials - done gone!! Plus maybe Huckabee is gone too !!

[Jag_Warrior]

Kudos to the police officer who offed this POS. No spendy trials - done gone!! Plus maybe Huckabee is gone too !!

Yeah, I'd say you can pretty much stick a fork in Huckabee. He didn't release the guy. But he went against the advice of the prosecutor in commuting his sentence.

[Roamy]

I don't think Huckabee would ever be elected so it is probably just less mud in the water!

[Valve Bounce]

In my area of the country, bulletproof vests are mandatory for every policeperson, state and local, regardless of what duty they're on. The vests go on before they go out the door. And desk-duty police have them too. A very, very sad statement on our world, but at least it's a modicum of protection for them. Unfortunately, not enough for the four in Washington State.

RIP.

I am simply flabbergasted. What the heck kind of an environment is there for residents of Washington State? I was just about to encourage my daughter to buy a home to live there.

[janvanvurpa]

I am simply flabbergasted. What the heck kind of an environment is there for residents of Washington State? I was just about to encourage my daughter to buy a home to live there.

There's good areas and bad areas everywhere.
The "perp" was from Arkansas, and the crime was done in a particularly vile part of a kind of gritty city. In Lakewood, which right out of the gates of a large Army base with infantry units, the main drag is lined with "check cashing" stores, Lease Your Furniture stores, miles of used car lots, all the businesses which love to prey on the mainly young enlisted men in the service. Predatory business in other words.

See Americans love to blab about "Support the Troops" but EVERYWHERE I have been in this country that there's a large military presence there's these predatory business, scum landlords, Loan sharks, etc. It's disgusting.

Plus all the US police have all decided that all of us are "The enemy" and they've all cried for and gotten more and more military weaponry and maybe 90% shave their heads clean to look like skin-head gangs, and many, many chronically abuse steroids to "bulk up" to, in the words of some cop locally on TV "Get some intimidation factor going and get some street cred".

The guy was some sociopath and was out on bail after being charged with attacking a cop and rape of a child. He made bail.....

But that's extremely unusual in Western Washington, most people including criminals are fatally mellow here, can't be bothered to do much good or bad.
They're too busy hiking or "chillin' at the starbucks"

Does your daughter live here?

[Valve Bounce]

Does your daughter live here?

No in CAL.

[Valve Bounce]

In my area of the country, bulletproof vests are mandatory for every policeperson, state and local, regardless of what duty they're on. The vests go on before they go out the door. And desk-duty police have them too. A very, very sad statement on our world, but at least it's a modicum of protection for them. Unfortunately, not enough for the four in Washington State.

RIP.

Tell ya what - I just realised, after some careful scrutiny, that not all the cops wear bullet proof vests in Baltimore.

[anthonyvop]

There's good areas and bad areas everywhere.
The "perp" was from Arkansas, and the crime was done in a particularly vile part of a kind of gritty city. In Lakewood, which right out of the gates of a large Army base with infantry units, the main drag is lined with "check cashing" stores, Lease Your Furniture stores, miles of used car lots, all the businesses which love to prey on the mainly young enlisted men in the service. Predatory business in other words.

See Americans love to blab about "Support the Troops" but EVERYWHERE I have been in this country that there's a large military presence there's these predatory business, scum landlords, Loan sharks, etc. It's disgusting.

Plus all the US police have all decided that all of us are "The enemy" and they've all cried for and gotten more and more military weaponry and maybe 90% shave their heads clean to look like skin-head gangs, and many, many chronically abuse steroids to "bulk up" to, in the words of some cop locally on TV "Get some intimidation factor going and get some street cred".

The guy was some sociopath and was out on bail after being charged with attacking a cop and rape of a child. He made bail.....

But that's extremely unusual in Western Washington, most people including criminals are fatally mellow here, can't be bothered to do much good or bad.
They're too busy hiking or "chillin' at the starbucks"

Does your daughter live here?

Wow.

Talk about gross generalizations. How liberal of you.

[Easy Drifter]

Most Cdn. uniform cops wear vests.

[leopard]

I think if cops in a country have to wear bulletproof vests indicates high proneness the said country against crime. Unlike the common reflective vests the cops use on the road to make them more visible, bulletproof vest is not comfort for daily use. But it also depends on material which the vest is made of, ceramic vest type is one of those is not comfort. Just my guess, never try to use that vest.

[Valve Bounce]

Most Cdn. uniform cops wear vests.

Well guess what!! In tonight's TV, Melbourne police are getting new bullet proof vests to wear on the beat. I didn't realise I was living in an environment which necessitated this. I goes to show how far behind the times I am. :(

[Roamy]

in this world more executions of violent criminals are needed.

[Jefe Máximo]

Pity you never execute the really violent ones then.

[Garry Walker]

Pity you never execute the really violent ones then.

We should do that more often indeed.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I predicted this guy would get the death penalty in a state which doesn't have it. Gee...that was predictable.

I don't hold Huckabee totally to blame for this one. This mook was busted for raping a kid and attacking a cop. He was given bail. In light of the fact the Ex Governor of Arkansas cut him a break he obviously didn't understand he was given, what was the judge smoking to grant this jerk bail? Attacking a cop is a charge that should send up warning flags everywhere. Anyone who attacks a cop will go after anyone.

This guy was scum. I don't advocate the death penalty except when the perp is so obviously guilty even Eki will see it....and this guy qualified.

He was mentally unstable, but I don't think there is anything society could do for him. To kill 4 cops in cold blood with shots to the head, that is a sick man...

AS for your assertion Jan that society is evil to ''prey'' on servicemen with the cheesy check cashing businesses and the like, no one forces them to be stupid with their money, and there isn't anything illegal about those businesses. It is capitalism, which means there is a service for everything, inculding being dumb with your money. I know where businesses like that are in my town and we don't have a military base for 100 miles.

[janvanvurpa]

AS for your assertion Jan that society is evil to ''prey'' on servicemen with the cheesy check cashing businesses and the like, no one forces them to be stupid with their money, and there isn't anything illegal about those businesses. It is capitalism, which means there is a service for everything, inculding being dumb with your money. I know where businesses like that are in my town and we don't have a military base for 100 miles.

OK OK Mark, you know the whole fu**ing US of fa**ing A 20 time better than I! I just lived here for 40 years and the first 17 in and around military bases, and more than 25 years very often very close by.

I guess you should tell the godd**mn DoD and the Attorneys General in Washington, California etc that their concerns for predatory and deceptive businesses is all stupid, and those are just good red blooded Americans and f***ing young and inexperienced service men--like the guy I just talked to in the waiting room at the doctor's just yesterday evening who "leased" a bunk bed when he had a second kid that after the interest rates on the loan jumped to loan shark levels he ended up paying nearly 1800 bucks on a 250 dollar bunk bed---that's just Good Ol' American Capitalism.

And I guess since you got one check cashing place that negates all what we've seen from the DoD on this subject....

[Mark in Oshawa]

OK OK Mark, you know the whole fu**ing US of fa**ing A 20 time better than I! I just lived here for 40 years and the first 17 in and around military bases, and more than 25 years very often very close by.

I guess you should tell the godd**mn DoD and the Attorneys General in Washington, California etc that their concerns for predatory and deceptive businesses is all stupid, and those are just good red blooded Americans and f***ing young and inexperienced service men--like the guy I just talked to in the waiting room at the doctor's just yesterday evening who "leased" a bunk bed when he had a second kid that after the interest rates on the loan jumped to loan shark levels he ended up paying nearly 1800 bucks on a 250 dollar bunk bed---that's just Good Ol' American Capitalism.

And I guess since you got one check cashing place that negates all what we've seen from the DoD on this subject....

Don't blame the dope who signs up to be fleeced Jan. If the average American serviceman is dumb enough to sign those loans or does business with these people, whose fault really is it?

I will tell you again Jan, you want to blame society for all the ills that most intelligent people are able to avoid. You cant protect people from their own greed, stupidity or avarice. At some point, they are responsible. You telling me the US military are all mind numbed robots?

You blame these businesses for a lot. I just told you in my town they are doing a roaring business and we don't have a military. You get so touchy Jan....All I am pointing out is blaming them for the rot of the society in that area, or the fact they exist having anything to do with 4 cops drinking coffee getting shot in the head is just silly. Then again, you think it is all the loan shark's fault people are dumb enough to take LEGAL loans from them. Got a news flash for you. The right of individuals includes the right to do dumb things. You would take all those rights away of course, because you know better.

As for me lecturing you on what you think is unique to military towns in the US, I will merely point out you thought I was full of crap pointing out holes in the Canadian Healthcare system once, a system you don't pay taxes to or USE so spare me the righteous indingnation.

[chuck34]

OK OK Mark, you know the whole fu**ing US of fa**ing A 20 time better than I! I just lived here for 40 years and the first 17 in and around military bases, and more than 25 years very often very close by.

I guess you should tell the godd**mn DoD and the Attorneys General in Washington, California etc that their concerns for predatory and deceptive businesses is all stupid, and those are just good red blooded Americans and f***ing young and inexperienced service men--like the guy I just talked to in the waiting room at the doctor's just yesterday evening who "leased" a bunk bed when he had a second kid that after the interest rates on the loan jumped to loan shark levels he ended up paying nearly 1800 bucks on a 250 dollar bunk bed---that's just Good Ol' American Capitalism.

And I guess since you got one check cashing place that negates all what we've seen from the DoD on this subject....


You are so right Jan, no one should ever have to take responsibility for their own actions should they? People are just too dumb for their own good. How can anyone function in day-to-day life without "Big Brother" the Government telling them how to live? I mean, honestly, how can all these stupid people even be allowed to drive their own cars to work every morning? How can they be trusted to pick out their own food at the store? Yep we better have "Big Brother" take care of everything for us. We're all too dumb to do it. .... Well that is except for the all knowing, ever wise, and most merciful janvanvurpa.

Give it a break man. Your act is getting REALLY old.

[Schultz]

Well guess what!! In tonight's TV, Melbourne police are getting new bullet proof vests to wear on the beat. I didn't realise I was living in an environment which necessitated this. I goes to show how far behind the times I am. :(

You are well behind the times. Covert bulletproof vests are often worn by Police Officers in Victoria under their shirts. All members are provided them and are encouraged to wear them at all times when on duty. The only reason some don't is the comfort factor. I think police deal with a lot more than we know of and anyone capable of assaulting police in the execution of their duty should be dealt with in the most harsh way possible.

[airshifter]

OK OK Mark, you know the whole fu**ing US of fa**ing A 20 time better than I! I just lived here for 40 years and the first 17 in and around military bases, and more than 25 years very often very close by.

I guess you should tell the godd**mn DoD and the Attorneys General in Washington, California etc that their concerns for predatory and deceptive businesses is all stupid, and those are just good red blooded Americans and f***ing young and inexperienced service men--like the guy I just talked to in the waiting room at the doctor's just yesterday evening who "leased" a bunk bed when he had a second kid that after the interest rates on the loan jumped to loan shark levels he ended up paying nearly 1800 bucks on a 250 dollar bunk bed---that's just Good Ol' American Capitalism.

And I guess since you got one check cashing place that negates all what we've seen from the DoD on this subject....

Hey I've got an idea. Why don't you reduce yourself to bypassing the online word censor so you can curse and act like that makes your argument more valid! I've heard that the real internet know it alls do it all the time and it makes them just RULE the discussion forums.

You might want to brush up on your math first though. The last I checked 17+25>40 :laugh:

[janvanvurpa]

Hey I've got an idea. Why don't you reduce yourself to bypassing the online word censor so you can curse and act like that makes your argument more valid! I've heard that the real internet know it alls do it all the time and it makes them just RULE the discussion forums.

You might want to brush up on your math first though. The last I checked 17+25>40 :laugh:

Oh pobrecito pequeno, did I hurt your widdle virgin earsies?

Hey Corporal, why don't you add something to the discussion, you were an enlisted man in the Army for a short while, so you must know everything about how the local towns are around Infantry bases. Tell us what paradises on earth they all were.



And since you're the big Einstein in your own mind, what's wrong with the years? Did you ever consider a typo? No? Of course not, you're the perfect model citizen that could never even consider a mistake, you'd have to kill yourself since the shame would be unbearable.

It occurs to me I really can't say exactly how long I've lived in the US, imagine that!

[janvanvurpa]

You are so right Jan, no one should ever have to take responsibility for their own actions should they? People are just too dumb for their own good. How can anyone function in day-to-day life without "Big Brother" the Government telling them how to live? I mean, honestly, how can all these stupid people even be allowed to drive their own cars to work every morning? How can they be trusted to pick out their own food at the store? Yep we better have "Big Brother" take care of everything for us. We're all too dumb to do it. .... Well that is except for the all knowing, ever wise, and most merciful janvanvurpa.

Give it a break man. Your act is getting REALLY old.


Are you reading what i wrote?

You're not suggesting that decptive business practices are never done to 18-19-20 year old children in Uniform are you.
What a pompous dipwad.

You sure infer a lot of bull**** from references that DoD and the various States were concerned about widespead dirty tricks and dishonest lease and loan deal were foisted on young first time away from home soldiers are you?

What the hell are you arguing about?

Maybe I just dreamed up the radio, TV and press reports how soldiers, especially young ones were being systematically victimized.

Hell you'd think real flag waving chest thumping Combat Veterans like you would be all "Support Our Troops", but no you go off on some insane blather about Big Brother.
I guess you must support the rights of business to fleece and rob our soldiers.

You drunk? Can't be just raw stupidity, nobody is that dumb.

[chuck34]

Are you reading what i wrote?

You're not suggesting that decptive business practices are never done to 18-19-20 year old children in Uniform are you.
What a pompous dipwad.

You sure infer a lot of bull**** from references that DoD and the various States were concerned about widespead dirty tricks and dishonest lease and loan deal were foisted on young first time away from home soldiers are you?

What the hell are you arguing about?

Maybe I just dreamed up the radio, TV and press reports how soldiers, especially young ones were being systematically victimized.

Hell you'd think real flag waving chest thumping Combat Veterans like you would be all "Support Our Troops", but no you go off on some insane blather about Big Brother.
I guess you must support the rights of business to fleece and rob our soldiers.

You drunk? Can't be just raw stupidity, nobody is that dumb.

As much as you ask people if they're drunk, perhaps you are the one who's drunk. A bit of projection perhaps. Do you need help? I know some people. Seriously, you seem to have gotten a bit more extreme in your bashing lately. And that's saying something. Everything ok?

As for the young military being fleeced ... Yes it's a problem. Has been since the beginning of time. Ever read about camp followers and the like from times gone by? There are always scum trying to pray on our soldiers. Does that make it right? No, of course not. But at the same time these pay day loan guys are not doing anything illegal, dishonest and immoral maybe, but not illegal. So what are we supposed to do? Either educate these guys about it first thing in boot camp, or outlaw the pay day loan practice.

And the military guys aren't the only ones being preyed upon. I would say that many/most of these same scams are being tryed on our college campuses. Ever see how many of these places also exist close to colleges? Ever see all the credit card people set up on nice days in the quads of these campuses?

The bottom line is that people, even if they are "only" 18-20 years old, must start taking responsibility for themselves. If you don't take responsibilty for yourself and your actions at 18/19 years old, when do you start taking responsibilty for yourself? A bit of simple education is all that is needed. The old saying of "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" would be a good start.

And lay off the insults, and the booze. Neither get you very far in a debate.

[airshifter]

Oh pobrecito pequeno, did I hurt your widdle virgin earsies?

Hey Corporal, why don't you add something to the discussion, you were an enlisted man in the Army for a short while, so you must know everything about how the local towns are around Infantry bases. Tell us what paradises on earth they all were.

As usual your self proclaimed superiority has failed you. Other than having the branch of service and rank wrong, you make the mistake of assuming I wasn't in a technical field. But as usual your attempt at an insult not only failed, but showed how petty you can be at attempting to attack the poster rather than the subject at hand.

You also assume that anything infantry based must be in the armpit of America somewhere. In my local area two of the more "infantry" oriented type bases are flanked with multi million dollar homes in exclusive neighborhoods. The closest area with any business is the resort area of Virginia Beach. I'm sure the souveneir shops exist only to pray on the young servicemen! :laugh:




And since you're the big Einstein in your own mind, what's wrong with the years? Did you ever consider a typo? No? Of course not, you're the perfect model citizen that could never even consider a mistake, you'd have to kill yourself since the shame would be unbearable.

It occurs to me I really can't say exactly how long I've lived in the US, imagine that!

I've never come close to perfection, but if I was ever arrogant enough to rant as if my opinion were fact and eveyone else was a complete moron, I'd at least attempt to show that my math skills exceeded those in third grade. ;)



Having lived near military bases my entire life (which exceeds the 40-42 years) I've realized that they are in character with what the rest of city or town without the base is. And I've been in areas away from bases that have as many if not more of the shady business practices that you seem to think are exclusive to military areas.

A fool and their money will soon part, but a great part of society deals with credit improperly, both here and in other countries. Your average credit card used improperly is just as bad as a shady rent to own place.


As for DoD and local military involvement, that's a by product of the military trying to keep the money in the fool's pockets. Most commands have off limits areas and warnings of the shady stuff, as well as financial counseling and resources exclusive to the military. Even when living in other countries many bases have financial planners that waive consultation fees and give reduced prices for services. Quite a few businesses offer discounts to military, and in some cases even former military. In our area I could have probably taken a choice of 10-12 places to eat a meal for no cost on Veterans Day. A number of the places doing that are national chains that did it all over the country.

Even short term memory should remind people that a recent government bailout was in large part a result of government pressure to make sure just about everyone got a home loan. I don't have sympathy of anyone that made a decision to try to live above their means and failed, and the loan crisis is just more proof that such poor decisions are not limited to young military people.

[janvanvurpa]

As usual your self proclaimed superiority has failed you. Other than having the branch of service and rank wrong, you make the mistake of assuming I wasn't in a technical field. But as usual your attempt at an insult not only failed, but showed how petty you can be at attempting to attack the poster rather than the subject at hand.

Even though you are obviously an experienced internet troll and you're baiting, I'm wondering where where you get off making such a odd claim that I have claimed superiority, self proclaimed or otherwise?
I haven't and you lie. What's new?



You also assume that anything infantry based must be in the armpit of America somewhere.

I have never claimed that or assumed that, again, you lie.



In my local area two of the more "infantry" oriented type bases are flanked with multi million dollar homes in exclusive neighborhoods.

Good for you, I'm thrilled for you.
However the subject of this thread was[/was] the cold blooded murder of 4
LAKEWOOD, WASHINGTON cops. So while you brag, I'll kindly remind folks that Lakewood, and Parkland where the diner was they were murdered in is not a very nice part of the Tacoma area, itself not a very nice area by local standards..




The closest area with any business is the resort area of Virginia Beach. I'm sure the souveneir shops exist only to pray on the young servicemen! :laugh:

Oooo You made me spit my tea out, you are such a wit!





I've never come close to perfection, but if I was ever arrogant enough to rant as if my opinion were fact and eveyone else was a complete moron, I'd at least attempt to show that my math skills exceeded those in third grade. ;)

You imply it in every post you write, especially towards anybody whose view your imagine is wrong, You imply it with your out of context and twisted readings followed by your painfully turgid and uptight "raving". ( <---That was an example for you of your unflinching constant ridiculing any opinions 1 degree the the Left of your Right wing extremist blather IMPLIES a unspoken presumption of superiority in a obvious way. You may be an extremist Dead Ender but you certainly know how language works and you know you presume superiority. The consitency of your ranting implies a belief in self perfection.)
As to your childish sniggering and chortling about the math read what I wrote [qoute]I just lived here for 40 years and the first 17 in and around military bases, and more than 25 years very often very close by.[/quote]

I have lived in the US for somewhere between 40 and 42 years, I've lived elsewhere for another 15 or 16, nowhere did I say 25+17 equals anything, that is your own presumtion, or knowing lousy attempt at ridicule.

Once again a presumption you know all.
Your attacks are oh maybe 5th Grade level.



Having lived near military bases my entire life (which exceeds the 40-42 years) I've realized that they are in character with what the rest of city or town without the base is.
You can't say with accuracy? And you ridicule a similarly general off the cuff comment?

Again you must see that there is foundations to the contempt people have for your presumtions of superiority.


And I've been in areas away from bases that have as many if not more of the shady business practices that you seem to think are exclusive to military areas.

I neither said, nor think that. Again you put words in my mouth of willingly lie.

A fool and their money will soon part, but a great part of society deals with credit improperly, both here and in other countries. Your average credit card used improperly is just as bad as a shady rent to own place.





Even short term memory should remind people that a recent government bailout was in large part a result of government pressure to make sure just about everyone got a home loan. I don't have sympathy of anyone that made a decision to try to live above their means and failed, and the loan crisis is just more proof that such poor decisions are not limited to young military people.

Never suggested or implied it was limited to anybody.
Again reading words that aren't there, willfully trying to twist my words.
Such a fundamentally dishonest person you are.
Bad Airshifter, bad.

And such selective memory. oi!
Did YOU forget that when REALLY BIG BUSINESS wants a trillion dollars or some huge loans, they go to Congress , stick out their hands and Congress gives it to them. Like they just did?

Bankers, mortgage brokers etc did what they did perfectly willingly and made obscene fortunes while doing it. Surely even a guy like you can remember that.

But, what the hell does this have to do with anything?


Your attacks are so consistent that you'll come and make massive presumptions and twist words and lie over a simple sarcastic response to a Canadian truck driver who implies perfect knowledge of America and all things American, [b]and defame me for mentioning what sort of area Lakewood---where I pass thru often enough--is.

What a strange and pathetic human you are.
What an inflated sense of self importance.
Thought of running for office??
You'd fit right in.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jan, you never SAY you are superior to the rest of us, you just vehemently attack anyone who disagrees with you and then complain when you get the same back.

A debate means taking in the other guy's point, and just occaisionally acknowledge they MAY have a point. Since this is beyond you, I wonder why we bother..

Airshifter was in the miltary, so I think he knows exactly about the way the servicemen are preyed upon. Since this has NOTHING to do with the thread (the 4 cops being shot in a coffee shop while surfing the net) in hand other than this area happens to have a few legal sharks nearby, I fail to understand why you need about 6 posts to demean the cheap loans biz, the pawn shop owners and the intelligence of anyone who you disagre with.

IN short, you hijacked a thread that was dedicated to the tragedy of 4 cops getting shot minding their own business by a guy who obviously wasn't all there and shouldn't be on the loose. He was on the loose because of a libreal and kind justice system, one of which your side of the political fence would usually endorse. So either attack the justice system for having this mook on bail, or Huckabee for letting this guy off a few years ago. Tell us how the community must feel having 4 cops shot. Going off on one of your left wing temper tantrums blaming the stupidity of a world that fleeces young soldiers and their money is another thread. Try it...so I can ignore it in the future...

[airshifter]

I'm sure some of you might remember this, which is a great representation of Janvan's principles of debate.....



I don't care what you think you were trying to say.


:laugh:

In the future I'll just remind myself that it's not worth responding to, as such statements should indicate to all of us that he's willing to debate things never stated. ;)




I don't think this nutbag got what he deserved. I wish they could have captured him alive after a severe beating.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is comical really isn't it? Jan's debating technique I mean....

[janvanvurpa]

I'm sure some of you might remember this, which is a great representation of Janvan's principles of debate.....


Originally Posted by janvanvurpa View Post
I don't care what you think you were trying to say.


:laugh:


Still doing you typical selective quoting out of context, I see.
In other words still the utterly worthless, dishonest person as always.

I'll repeat it, it isn't funny, it make perfect sense when not chopped out of a paragraph
I don't care what you think you were trying to say, all I have to go on is what you did say .

And to you and your buddies like VopBo and MOshawa etc...

I didn't realise we were all in 7th grade Debating Club, I thought this was a discussion. forum>

Debate? F**k, Now i see why you boys will never ever concede even a single point and why you particularly stoop constantly to dishonest and deceptive antics, you think you get some sort of Brownie Points if you "win" or gawd forbid, would lose points in "the debate".

Never grew up did you Sarge?

Debate....jeeezuz.



Pitiful.
And contemptible.

[Valve Bounce]

Has all this anything to do with the four police who were shot/executed or is this some sort of tribal retribution saga relating to intra forum indigenous ritual?

[janvanvurpa]

Jan, you never SAY you are superior to the rest of us, you just vehemently attack anyone who disagrees with you and then complain when you get the same back.

A debate means taking in the other guy's point, and just occaisionally acknowledge they MAY have a point. Since this is beyond you, I wonder why we bother..

Airshifter was in the miltary, so I think he knows exactly about the way the servicemen are preyed upon. Since this has NOTHING to do with the thread (the 4 cops being shot in a coffee shop while surfing the net) in hand other than this area happens to have a few legal sharks nearby, I fail to understand why you need about 6 posts to demean the cheap loans biz, the pawn shop owners and the intelligence of anyone who you disagre with.

IN short, you hijacked a thread that was dedicated to the tragedy of 4 cops getting shot minding their own business by a guy who obviously wasn't all there and shouldn't be on the loose. He was on the loose because of a libreal and kind justice system, one of which your side of the political fence would usually endorse. So either attack the justice system for having this mook on bail, or Huckabee for letting this guy off a few years ago. Tell us how the community must feel having 4 cops shot. Going off on one of your left wing temper tantrums blaming the stupidity of a world that fleeces young soldiers and their money is another thread. Try it...so I can ignore it in the future...

Sorry Mark, once again you fail. Let's see iif you concede the point.
You blame me for "Hijacking the thread" or as you and you friends say "the DEBATE".

Actually I simply replying to this post since I live nearby 25 miles or so and pass thru that area fairly frequently:



Valve Bounce


Offline
Posts: 16,985
Join Date: Feb 2001

Report Post
Dead I'm stunned - 1st Dec 09, 22:44
Originally Posted by beachgirl View Post
In my area of the country, bulletproof vests are mandatory for every policeperson, state and local, regardless of what duty they're on. The vests go on before they go out the door. And desk-duty police have them too. A very, very sad statement on our world, but at least it's a modicum of protection for them. Unfortunately, not enough for the four in Washington State.

RIP.

I am simply flabbergasted. What the heck kind of an environment is there for residents of Washington State? I was just about to encourage my daughter to buy a home to live there.
Valve

I answered his question and tried to describe just what sort of dump the area is---ie what makes it seedy, coarse etc


The YOU came on and told us, as usual that whatever I said was all wrong, and blabbed as you always do with idealized general platitudes about
"Nobody forces them to be stupid with their money...."
You responded at great lengths in a post overflowing with presumption, your shadow Chuck picked up your idea and started raving

You are so right Jan, no one should ever have to take responsibility for their own actions should they? People are just too dumb for their own good. How can anyone function in day-to-day life without "Big Brother" the Government telling.....blah blah and then PFC Shifter jumps on with his special brand of sliminess.....


And I highjacked the thread.

So a brief response to Valve Bounce derailed the thread...or was it answering the long lecturing from you, Chuckie and Feldwebel Schalter about this place I go by weekly, correcting when you and your friends fabricate and misstate things I neither wrote or implied?

Look back at the simple accusation.....see how you think?
You write paragraphs, that's OK, I "hijacked the thread.."

Ain't worth talking

And by the way, this is not a debate.
It's supposed to be a conversation.

How can can converse with people who are TRYING TO "Score Debating Points"?

Finally Corporal Shifty was some branch of the military for some short stint "therefore he should know....."
You imply that he should know about the social and cultural conditions of, presumably, since you didn't limit it, of every US military base world wide.

It seems you don't understand what your won comments imply.....therefore you don't see how ridiculous they are.

[chuck34]

I know we're way off topic now and I'm sorry about that, but this can't go unchallenged.

Jan, what did any of us ever "make up"? You went on some diatribe about how the soldiers are all being preyed upon by a LEGAL business. All any of us have tried to do is point out that EVERY ADULT needs to step up and take responsibility for themselves. How is that making stuff up?

Please try and respond in a logical and rational way, and please try to refrain from the personal attacks and name calling. Sometimes you seem like a smart guy with reasonable ideas, but the rants you go on (particularly in this thread) are really making you seem ... well less than rational I guess.

[Roamy]

I am surprised that you guys even argue with this terrorist !!!

[janvanvurpa]

I know we're way off topic now and I'm sorry about that, but this can't go unchallenged.

Jan, what did any of us ever "make up"? You went on some diatribe about how the soldiers are all being preyed upon by a LEGAL business. All any of us have tried to do is point out that EVERY ADULT needs to step up and take responsibility for themselves. How is that making stuff up?

Please try and respond in a logical and rational way, and please try to refrain from the personal attacks and name calling. Sometimes you seem like a smart guy with reasonable ideas, but the rants you go on (particularly in this thread) are really making you seem ... well less than rational I guess.

Chuck, I will state for a final time: Valve Bounce asked

"I am simply flabbergasted. What the heck kind of an environment is there for residents of Washington State? I was just about to encourage my daughter to buy a home to live there.
Valve

I foolishly tried to paint a brief picture of what kind of seedy low rent dump Lakewood and Parkland are since I pass thru there regularly.

I didn't say anything critical of anybody LIVING there, and mentioned the sleezy business only because a) I see them
b) I saw some 60 minutes type thing about predatory business around some military bases and on this 60 mintues type program higher military Officers expressed alarm and concern at the practices
c) heard a long radio bit,
d)I've lived around a couple of other Army bases with Infantry divisions .

You and your friends somehow read something somehow that prompted the responses with the MORALISTIC preaching about repsonsibilty etc.

Even in your above post YOU are, whether you understand it or not, saying "All these predatory business have done nothing wrong EVER--because they're legal"
Then why was Army,. Marine and Navy brass worried enough to talk to reporters?
Because they were doing imoral AND Illegal things.
Not EVERY check cashing facility in Ontario, the ones that ARE doing nasty things.

Not the point. I sketched a cursory description of LAKEWOOD (any of you know it alls ever spent more than 3 minutes in Lakewood? Anybody? Maybe Fousto, he was a nurse in the Army way back 40 years ago wasn't he?)
And Mark corrects it--not really since I doubt seriously he's ever spent time there---he parries it and tells everybody I'm wrong, and importantly, HE'S RIGHT about Lakewood Washington.
And then you come along with you further off topic preaching responsibility that the (very possibly not the brightest boys in the whole world are in infantry units, many very young, very idealistic, and first time away from home and a nice paycheck every month....easy prey.) guys have to blah blah.

I think you guys are so used to hearing diatribes where EVERYTHING is described in the most all-encompassing terms that YOU GUYS think a passing reference to one or a few places is intended to apply to ALL places all bases etc.

No If I intended to say "Every Military bases is speckled with horrible nasty manipulative, immoral businesses like warts on a frog" I would have said that.
You boys LOOK FOR THE WORST POSSIBLE TAKE on what people YOU identify as "your political enemies" write.

Read back through again what you and your friends wrote and accused, and ask what the f**k did that have to do with answering Valve Bounce's question about "what sort of environment is it in Washington State...?"

And Mark, you'd gain a smidgen credibility if I were to see you scolding Sgt Airshifter or your friends Fousto and Vop about name calling and insults, but alas you and your friends give them a Carte Blanche.

[janvanvurpa]

I am surprised that you guys even argue with this terrorist !!!

Whatcher 'fraid of Foustino?

[Valve Bounce]

I Guess This Thread Has Come To A Dead End. :(

[ShiftingGears]

I Guess This Thread Has Come To A Dead End. :(

Indeed. It's turned into an outlet for a condescending keyboard warrior.

[gloomyDAY]

Indeed. It's turned into an outlet for a condescending keyboard warrior.You mean an E-thug?

[ShiftingGears]

You mean an E-thug?

Or that. But keyboard warrior is a far more apt description. :p :

[airshifter]

I Guess This Thread Has Come To A Dead End. :(

Sorry to be one of the temporary hijackers VB.

I don't think that it's out of character for many large US metro areas to have such "shady" districts as Janvan pointed out existed up there. It's an unfortunate consequence of the modern US. If it's not the gang bangers in the outskirts and crappy areas, it's generally at least the druggies and scammers.

I haven't been up in that particular area, but for the most part in the US the areas you don't want your daughter to go would be obvious to you or her. That isn't to say that a wrong turn won't sometimes land you in an area you really don't want to be.

It's getting fairly hard to find a large US city or area that doesn't have some undesirable areas.

[Camelopard]

I am surprised that you guys even argue with this terrorist !!!

Hey foustina, the only terrorist on this forum is vop, have you been arguing with him?

[chuck34]

Last post on this subject. And I am sorry for hijacking this thread for those that wanted to post on the actual subject.

Jan, your original (profanity ridden) post was saying that the enlisted men aren't smart enough to figure out the payday loan scam on their own and that they needed the government to look out for them, was what prompted my orignial response to you. The fact that Mark and I both responded simmilarly and independently (I didn't see Mark's response until AFTER I posted. Your post and his are on different pages for me) should sugest to you that perhaps you weren't clearly presenting what you though you were on that subject. But I'm sure that you won't see any problems with what you wrote, and go off on another long-winded, meandering, pointless rant about how wrong we all are.

[janvanvurpa]

Last post on this subject. And I am sorry for hijacking this thread for those that wanted to post on the actual subject.

Jan, your original (profanity ridden) post was saying that the enlisted men aren't smart enough to figure out the payday loan scam on their own and that they needed the government to look out for them, was what prompted my orignial response to you. The fact that Mark and I both responded simmilarly and independently (I didn't see Mark's response until AFTER I posted. Your post and his are on different pages for me) should sugest to you that perhaps you weren't clearly presenting what you though you were on that subject. But I'm sure that you won't see any problems with what you wrote, and go off on another long-winded, meandering, pointless rant about how wrong we all are.

The original post neither said that or implied anything about the intelligence or mental development of the enlisted men at McCord AFB and Fort Lewis.
If you read that then it is your own take.
For you to rave and lecture about things you read into a simple answer to Valve bounce is insulting and vile.

As my original post neither said or implied anything about the enlisted men, all of the subsequent post blabbering about that are all meandering, and pointless. The vast majority of what I wrote was in response to the multitude of assumptions and presumptions you guys made.

And don't pull the totally nonsensical card acting as if you are offended at my language, you're not a spinster librarian, continually acting as if you're shocked! SHOCKED! just paints you as a typical hypocritical poseur.


The entire thing from all your Rightwing extremists is particularly insane as NONE of YOU have spent any time in the area.

You guys need to mellow the f**k out and stop getting outraged at things not said, or implied.

[chuck34]

The original post neither said that or implied anything about the intelligence or mental development of the enlisted men at McCord AFB and Fort Lewis.
If you read that then it is your own take.
For you to rave and lecture about things you read into a simple answer to Valve bounce is insulting and vile.

As my original post neither said or implied anything about the enlisted men, all of the subsequent post blabbering about that are all meandering, and pointless. The vast majority of what I wrote was in response to the multitude of assumptions and presumptions you guys made.

And don't pull the totally nonsensical card acting as if you are offended at my language, you're not a spinster librarian, continually acting as if you're shocked! SHOCKED! just paints you as a typical hypocritical poseur.


The entire thing from all your Rightwing extremists is particularly insane as NONE of YOU have spent any time in the area.

You guys need to mellow the f**k out and stop getting outraged at things not said, or implied.

Again, two seperate people came to the same conclusion independent of each other. So perhaps you didn't word your response as carefully as you thought. And for you to say that my responses have been "insulting and vile" is just a wee bit over the top, don't you think?

I am not "shocked" at your language. Frankly I don't care. I cuss as much as anyone. I'm just saying that it doesn't really help your case.

My travels to the area are really not in question here. My responses have nothing to do with the specific area so quite making that an issue, it is not.

I have stayed calm throughout this whole thread, perhaps a bit too sarcastic in my original post. But your rambling and explitive laden rants don't seem too mellow. So perhaps you should heed your own advice.

[Valve Bounce]

You know what - I wish I could walk into a cafe and see the two of you at a table - I'd shoot both of you. :eek: