Sao Paolo confirmed for opener

[NickFalzone]

TBD of course of this is a "real" story, or just another "web glitch"... :) It's kind of interesting to me that the Rio story published last month by accident had all these beautiful photos and a long explanation of how Rio will be a beautiful event. I don't know anything about this Sao Paolo layout, but this press release is certainly a lot less "excited" than the Rio one was. Maybe they pulled this off at the last minute though and didn't polish it like the previous story. I actually just fixed a couple typos in my repost, which you can see in the original linked story (opportunitty, Aprex)

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=15484

Bom dia, São Paulo

By indycar.com staff Wednesday, November 25, 2009

The city of São Paulo will stage the opening round of the 2010 IZOD IndyCar Series season.

Scheduled for March 14, the event represents the return of Indy-style racing to Brazil thanks to the partnership between the São Paulo municipality, the Indy Racing League and TV Bandeirantes and BandSports.

"The arrival of the IZOD IndyCar Series confirms São Paulo's nature of staging great worldwide events. It is a gift to the citizens of São Paulo who will be able to watch up close great racecars and drivers. It is also a great opportunity for business for the city that becomes the capital of motoracing in Latin América," said Mayor Gilberto Kassab.

The event marks the first IZOD IndyCar Series street race in Brazil. São Paulo is already home to the Brazil Formula 1 Grand Prix staged at the Interlagos racetrack. Now the city concentrates two of the most important motorsports events worldwide.

"While our primary focus continues to be building the sport of the IZOD IndyCar Series domestically, the race in São Paulo affords us a unique opportunity to visit a country that has a huge passion for open-wheel racing. With strong support from our major partner Apex-Brasil, a significant television package from TV Bandeirantes, a large number of drivers from the country and the opportunity for a unique course, it makes sense from both a business and competition standpoint," said Terry Angstadt, president of the commercial division for the sanctioning Indy Racing League.
The IZOD IndyCar Series has a long history of Brazilian driver participation since its founding in 1996, including this year's field highlighted by three-time Indianapolis 500 winner Helio Castroneves, 2004 IndyCar Series champion Tony Kanaan, veteran driver Vitor Meira, and up-and-coming IndyCar Series stars Raphael Matos, the 2009 Apex-Brasil IndyCar Series Rookie of the Year, and São Paulo native Mario Moraes.

[anthonyvop]

Street course in Sao Paulo? Not Interlagos?
Now why wouldn't they use one of the world's premier tracks that is practically in the heart of the city?

Hmmmmmmm.........OK...We all know why.

[NickFalzone]

Street course in Sao Paulo? Not Interlagos?
Now why wouldn't they use one of the world's premier tracks that is practically in the heart of the city?

Hmmmmmmm.........OK...We all know why.

Robin Miller's story has a few more details:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-opens-2010-in-sao-paulo/

As far as why not Interlagos. My own take is that it would make the IRL speeds look pretty slow by comparison to F1, but someone in the comments below Robin's article claimed that F1 prohibited the IRL from racing there, that it's in their contract with the track. Regardless it was somewhat comforting to read in Robin's article that the final track layout has been chosen. Very few such details in the IRL press release.

[garyshell]

The AP has picked up on this as well:

http://sports.myway.com/news/11252009/v5731.html

Gary

[F1boat]

Robin Miller's story has a few more details:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-opens-2010-in-sao-paulo/

As far as why not Interlagos. My own take is that it would make the IRL speeds look pretty slow by comparison to F1, but someone in the comments below Robin's article claimed that F1 prohibited the IRL from racing there, that it's in their contract with the track. Regardless it was somewhat comforting to read in Robin's article that the final track layout has been chosen. Very few such details in the IRL press release.

I agree that F1 will not allow rival openwheeler to run at Interlagos. About Indycars being slow, the casual fans won't notice a gap even of 10 seconds per lap IMO.

[HenryM]

I see no point in not using interlagos, a street circuit in São Paulo will be chaotic, and isn't the race only 4 months away now?...

I remember reading somewhere that A1GP reserved a date in Interlagos for next year, so I don't know if there is any contract prohibiting any other major open wheelers categories there (I know that A1gp is a lot smaller than IRL, but..)

[anthonyvop]

I agree that F1 will not allow rival openwheeler to run at Interlagos. About Indycars being slow, the casual fans won't notice a gap even of 10 seconds per lap IMO.
10 secs?

You are being very optimistic.

Blaming F1 is a red-herring. The FIA wouldn't care if Indy Car raced at Interlagos no more than they cared the A1GP scheduling a date there.

[Chamoo]

10 secs?

You are being very optimistic.

Blaming F1 is a red-herring. The FIA wouldn't care if Indy Car raced at Interlagos no more than they cared the A1GP scheduling a date there.

I'd disagree with that Anthony. I think the FIA would not be happy. Brazil is it's market internationally, and it probably does feel threatened considering the amount of Brazilian IRL drivers and the TV deal in place for the event and I believe the entire season with one of the top Brazilian stations.

Had the event been done much earlier, I think the FIA would feel even more threatened, but ticket sales won't be that great due to the short notice.

I think the IRL probably doesn't want to run F1 tracks either as they could had run Montreal, they could had run Indy road course, and now they could had tried to run Interlagos, but there was never any mention of it.

[SarahFan]

yawn

[anthonyvop]

São Paulo is already home to the Brazil Formula 1 Grand Prix staged at the Interlagos racetrack. Now the city concentrates two of the most important motorsports events worldwide.



Ok. F1 is one but what is the other?

[anthonyvop]

I'd disagree with that Anthony. I think the FIA would not be happy. Brazil is it's market internationally, and it probably does feel threatened considering the amount of Brazilian IRL drivers and the TV deal in place for the event and I believe the entire season with one of the top Brazilian stations.

Had the event been done much earlier, I think the FIA would feel even more threatened, but ticket sales won't be that great due to the short notice.

I think the IRL probably doesn't want to run F1 tracks either as they could had run Montreal, they could had run Indy road course, and now they could had tried to run Interlagos, but there was never any mention of it.
The FIA felt threatened back in the CART glory days 80's thru early 90's when the cars were closing in on F1 performance wise and it was a viable option for the top drivers.

Today ICS is no threat whatsoever for F1.
The Brazilian race fan is educated in motorsports. Sure the ICS will draw a crowd but nobody is going to give up their F1 tixs in exchange to see the Dallaras.

The FIA didn't have a problem with A1GP scheduling a race in Interlagos and they had no problem with the Superfund League running at Monza so why would they get all nervous about Indy Cars?

[Chamoo]

The FIA didn't have a problem with A1GP scheduling a race in Interlagos and they had no problem with the Superfund League running at Monza so why would they get all nervous about Indy Cars?

I would say that the lower ticket price, higher proportion of Brazilians, and different atmosphere and show ICS puts on is what would scare the FIA. Champ Car had troubles running overseas with the FIA (financially as well), but the FIA really didn't make it easy for them to run.

Bernie is aware that if ICS could in the future offer a threat to F1. He didn't think CART would threaten F1 back in the early nineties, and did nothing to try and stop it until it actually happened. Now he is too smart to realize that the IRL, if not in it's present form, could in the future present a problem for F1, and he will not take chances now.

Superleague is no threat to him, he most likely assumes it will flop, and if not, he will destroy it in a few years anyways. A1GP is killing itself off.

The IRL is sanctioning body he can't control that well since most of the races are in North America. But once those races go elsewhere, anywhere the FIA is the main sanctioning body, he has the ability to influence those races. Any time the IRL steps out of North America, he will make it difficult.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

The Brazil race is a good think, so I don't want to whinge. But this shows why the Rio "web glitch" was such a big mistake. Judging by the pictures, any location could be a dissapointment compared to Botafogo Beach...

[SarahFan]

"Roger Penske has told Indycar bosses to focus on making the series successful in North America rather than adding international races to the calendar.

There have been rumours of other countries such as China being pursued but Penske doesn't want the IRL to be looking away from North America for races.

" I think we need to run in this country and build up the sport in the US.People might disagree with,me but if we are going to have a sport that is national in the US and Canada then we have to run in those two countries. I don't think we gain anything other than someone paying our travel when we race outside of North America."

[anthonyvop]

I would say that the lower ticket price,
Do we know that. One can assume but we don't know.


higher proportion of Brazilians,
F1 will have at least 3 Brazilian Drivers in 2010 with a possible 2 more. None of the current Brazilian ICS drivers come close to rivaling Massa or Reubens in popularity.


and different atmosphere
Ok. I can give you that one.


and show ICS puts on is what would scare the FIA. .
Show? Really? A spec series with cars that are ponderously slow compared to an F1 car will put on a better show that F1?

Remember, Brazilians are educated race fans. They don't need nor want NASCAR style racing.

[ShiftingGears]

Do we know that. One can assume but we don't know.


F1 will have at least 3 Brazilian Drivers in 2010 with a possible 2 more. None of the current Brazilian ICS drivers come close to rivaling Massa or Reubens in popularity.


Ok. I can give you that one.


Show? Really? A spec series with cars that are ponderously slow compared to an F1 car will put on a better show that F1?

Remember, Brazilians are educated race fans. They don't need nor want NASCAR style racing.

I agree. I just don't buy the notion of a large Brazilian crowd enjoying IndyCar at Interlagos more than F1.

Anyone who saw F1 in Brazil 2008 would know how much they love F1.

[Chamoo]

Show? Really? A spec series with cars that are ponderously slow compared to an F1 car will put on a better show that F1?

I mean't a different show. I understand where you're coming from, but I feel that the ICS puts on a completely different show from the in-field out. I wish they raced at Interlagos as there would be passing galore as opposed to all the dry Brazilian GP's.

[NickFalzone]

I saw some pics of the proposed layout. Looks like it could be a very fast circuit with 2 or 3 good corners for passing. Not sure about the roads though, from some of the pics it looks like it could be pretty bumpy. I kind of wonder how teams prep for a course that they've never been on before.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2034/sambao.jpg

http://www.estadao.com.br/fotos/formulaindy_circuitodoanhembi_projecao_27112009.gi f

[speeddurango]

I would welcome that layout though, if it is actually 3.8 kms long with no chicanes whatsoever on that 1 mile long straight. I reckon that's going to be a good fun.

[SarahFan]

proposed Sao Paulo track
http://www.estadao.com.br/fotos/formulaindy_circuitodoanhembi_projecao_27112009.gi f


San Jose 2006
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/San_Jose%2C_California_street_circuit_track_map--2006_on.svg/800px-San_Jose%2C_California_street_circuit_track_map--2006_on.svg.png


eeerie

[anthonyvop]

I saw some pics of the proposed layout. Looks like it could be a very fast circuit with 2 or 3 good corners for passing. Not sure about the roads though, from some of the pics it looks like it could be pretty bumpy. I kind of wonder how teams prep for a course that they've never been on before.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2034/sambao.jpg

http://www.estadao.com.br/fotos/formulaindy_circuitodoanhembi_projecao_27112009.gi f
Four 90 degree corners and one 180?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am not impressed. Sorry guys, another street circuit in a country loaded with road courses with only 4 months prep time ? Didn't we lambaste CCWS for this sort of stuff? The course is dull. Where is a challenging section? This reminds me of that very simple course in San Jose complete with street car tracks. Interlagos may not have been available for political reasons, but there are other facilities. Roger Penske isn't all wrong but I can at least say Brazil is worth it. Just not this course, or on this short notice.

[Chamoo]

If that course happens, there will be fast lap times and lots of passing. It looks just like San Jose which was a terribly simple track yet had passing almost every lap.

[Mark in Oshawa]

If that course happens, there will be fast lap times and lots of passing. It looks just like San Jose which was a terribly simple track yet had passing almost every lap.

It had lots of passing after the Push to pass buttons AND the anti-blocking rules for sure. That said, I like watching guys negotiate a course that makes them work. This one is what street tracks shouldn't be.....

[ShiftingGears]

This one is what street tracks shouldn't be.....

Completely agreed.

[chuck34]

Is that really a mile long straight? If so ... well you guys are worried about insurance from going 240 at Indy? You ain't seen nutin' yet.

[Chamoo]

Is that really a mile long straight? If so ... well you guys are worried about insurance from going 240 at Indy? You ain't seen nutin' yet.

I'm not too worried. The cars would be trimmed out in road course downforce and usually top out around 237-239 MPH on the back stretch at Indy (I believe) once they hit the rev limiter so I doubt they will do anything close to that in Brazil. Also, I'm not sure how you judged that to be a 1 mile straight. The whole track is only 2.36 miles long.

[chuck34]

I'm not too worried. The cars would be trimmed out in road course downforce and usually top out around 237-239 MPH on the back stretch at Indy (I believe) once they hit the rev limiter so I doubt they will do anything close to that in Brazil. Also, I'm not sure how you judged that to be a 1 mile straight. The whole track is only 2.36 miles long.

speeddurango said it was 1 mile. I didn't do too much looking at it other than to notice that it'll probably be another boring street race. The rev limiter is not a speed limiter, they could just change out the gears. If it were a one mile straight, and with the turns all being 90 or 180 degrees, I would say that the cars will be trimmed out as much as possible as there won't be too much compromise for those turns because they will just be pretty much low speed stuff.

But if it's that short then it won't really matter.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Just a couple of points.

I understand the start/finish straight will be inside the Sambodrome, between those grandstands. It means that there will be 35,000 seats without having to erect any temporary grandstands, plus VIP lounges and a media centre, as Tony Cotman indicates in the article.

There would also be a great overtaking opportunity in the last corner - the hairpin at the end of the riverside drive which would lead onto the start/finish straight between the grandstands (bottom right corner on the photo).

The course designers also have some degree of freedom designing the first and the second corners. As you can see on the photo, there is a big open parking lot there so they are able to design fast Esses as well as slower 90 degree corners.

[Chamoo]

speeddurango said it was 1 mile. I didn't do too much looking at it other than to notice that it'll probably be another boring street race. The rev limiter is not a speed limiter, they could just change out the gears. If it were a one mile straight, and with the turns all being 90 or 180 degrees, I would say that the cars will be trimmed out as much as possible as there won't be too much compromise for those turns because they will just be pretty much low speed stuff.

But if it's that short then it won't really matter.

Your right about the gears, forgot to think about that, but I would still think they would not run as fast as at IMS.

[Lousada]

If that straight will really be a mile long it could be pretty exciting. The rest of the track looks like a big yawn.
It's a pretty clever location with all the grandstands already in place. The viewing will be pretty crap though, the most interesting corner and the pits are somewhere else!

[NickFalzone]

It looks to me like it will be a good course for passing. As someone that is not a huge fan of street courses, I think this design is excellent. No, it won't necessarily test driver skill nearly as much as many of the more twisty circuits out there, and thus the better street guys like Power and Franchitti will dislike it, but on the other hand it has the chance to be much more entertaining, and also perhaps less chance of the minor wrecks that yellow flag half these races.

[anthonyvop]

Just a couple of points.

I understand the start/finish straight will be inside the Sambodrome, between those grandstands. It means that there will be 35,000 seats without having to erect any temporary grandstands, plus VIP lounges and a media centre, as Tony Cotman indicates in the article.


That would be a interesting engineering feat as the Sambadrome is in Rio de Janeiro.

[garyshell]

I understand the start/finish straight will be inside the Sambodrome, between those grandstands.


That would be a interesting engineering feat as the Sambadrome is in Rio de Janeiro.

Sounds like someone in Brazil has perfect the creation and use of a wormhole!

Gary

[Dr. Krogshöj]

That would be a interesting engineering feat as the Sambadrome is in Rio de Janeiro.

The Sambadrome is not a single facility, it's a collective name for similar venues. There is one in a number of major Brazilian cities. The Sambódromo do Anhembi is located in Sao Paolo. Have a closer look at the circuit map.

[Wilf]

Sounds like someone in Brazil has perfect the creation and use of a wormhole!

Gary
No, I think some posters are sharing their wisdom gained by observing the world through knotholes.

[SportscarBruce]

Word to the IMS Prod/Versus staff: Please consider placing a camera along the main straight aimed through the fence just before the braking area where speeds are highest. The angle translates the race day viewing experience to the home viewer as the cars charge by in all their fury. I posted a home move taken through the fence at Houston 2000 and it became very popular, I also recall Champ Car picking up on it and using the angle at a street event during its final year of operation.

[Chamoo]

Word to the IMS Prod/Versus staff: Please consider placing a camera along the main straight aimed through the fence just before the braking area where speeds are highest. The angle translates the race day viewing experience to the home viewer as the cars charge by in all their fury. I posted a home move taken through the fence at Houston 2000 and it became very popular, I also recall Champ Car picking up on it and using the angle at a street event during its final year of operation.

That would be a good comment to send off to Versus/IRL/IMS immediately via email.

[SportscarBruce]

That would be a good comment to send off to Versus/IRL/IMS immediately via email.

If someone wants to forward either the appropriate email addy to me or forward this link to someone in a position to act on it please feel free.

In a somewhat related topic, MSNBC's Morning Joe roundtable discussion over the Comcast buyout of NBC made mention of two very interesting points; Comcast is reportedly looking for sports properties in order to challenge ABC/ESPN and NewsCorp, and Comcast, although corporate in structure, is managed in a manner you'ld find in a family-owned business.

Looks like IndyCar may have a potential new partner calling! :cool:

[NickFalzone]

If someone wants to forward either the appropriate email addy to me or forward this link to someone in a position to act on it please feel free.

In a somewhat related topic, MSNBC's Morning Joe roundtable discussion over the Comcast buyout of NBC made mention of two very interesting points; Comcast is reportedly looking for sports properties in order to challenge ABC/ESPN and NewsCorp, and Comcast, although corporate in structure, is managed in a manner you'ld find in a family-owned business.

Looks like IndyCar may have a potential new partner calling! :cool:

Bruce, sent you some VS contact info. DO not bother this contact with multiple emails. Keep it short and sweet, and to the point.

[SportscarBruce]

Video is posted;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ity52zgmeco

To those who suggest spectators can't tell a 20 mph difference between cars and really don't care - bull. There was a tremendous difference between CART during the era of engine competition and the detuned Ford Cosworth common specification.

[garyshell]

Video is posted;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ity52zgmeco

To those who suggest spectators can't tell a 20 mph difference between cars and really don't care - bull. There was a tremendous difference between CART during the era of engine competition and the detuned Ford Cosworth common specification.


What does the video do to prove your supposition? I still stand by my claim that from one year to the next the spectator standing at trackside WITHOUT a stopwatch cannot discern the difference in speed. But that point aside, I also think that if the competition on the track is comparable, then the fans will NOT care if the speed is less. We are not talking drag racing here after all.

Gary

[SarahFan]

What does the video do to prove your supposition? I still stand by my claim that from one year to the next the spectator standing at trackside WITHOUT a stopwatch cannot discern the difference in speed. But that point aside, I also think that if the competition on the track is comparable, then the fans will NOT care if the speed is less. We are not talking drag racing here after all.

Gary


not sure about year to year....

but my favorite place to sit (stand now because the grandstands are gone) for qualifying is at the 90degree right hander at the end of the back straight at Long beach.....

and i can tell you its crystal clear when a racer is on a hot lap .....and that I have called out a 'best lap' and/or a 'pole lap' over 75% of the time....

and during the race you absolutly tell when they are pushing or when the are holding a bit back from that vantage point......


*how that translate to 'year to year' I'll let you be the judge..... but lap to lap as well as top to bottom of the grid you can IMO tell the difference

[SarahFan]

Video is posted;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ity52zgmeco

To those who suggest spectators can't tell a 20 mph difference between cars and really don't care - bull. There was a tremendous difference between CART during the era of engine competition and the detuned Ford Cosworth common specification.


just ask kannaan ..... he has summed it very well

[NickFalzone]

not sure about year to year....

but my favorite place to sit (stand now because the grandstands are gone) for qualifying is at the 90degree right hander at the end of the back straight at Long beach.....

and i can tell you its crystal clear when a racer is on a hot lap .....and that I have called out a 'best lap' and/or a 'pole lap' over 75% of the time....

and during the race you absolutly tell when they are pushing or when the are holding a bit back from that vantage point......


*how that translate to 'year to year' I'll let you be the judge..... but lap to lap as well as top to bottom of the grid you can IMO tell the difference

I agree with this. Staying at the same spot on a road or street course I can tell whether a driver is pushing it or not and can clearly see a speed difference between the front runners and the back markers. Now could I tell speeds from year to year? 20 mph difference? Possibly. 5-10? I doubt it.

[garyshell]

not sure about year to year....

but my favorite place to sit (stand now because the grandstands are gone) for qualifying is at the 90degree right hander at the end of the back straight at Long beach.....

and i can tell you its crystal clear when a racer is on a hot lap .....and that I have called out a 'best lap' and/or a 'pole lap' over 75% of the time....

and during the race you absolutly tell when they are pushing or when the are holding a bit back from that vantage point......


*how that translate to 'year to year' I'll let you be the judge..... but lap to lap as well as top to bottom of the grid you can IMO tell the difference

Sure lap to lap, no question the difference is readily discernable. My contention has always been about the comparison of one series to another or one year to the next where rule changes have come into play.

Gary

[ShiftingGears]

Racing is about speed. That's what people want to see, particularly at the pro level, otherwise they wouldn't be at a race. So, IMO, we need the cars to be closer to the limits. Lower the cornering speeds for safety and increase the straightline speed.

Exactly. The problem is that the Dallara has a fairly low power-grip ratio, and as a result, it's a pretty dull racing machine.

[SarahFan]

Starter .... To your last sentence

my understanding of the cart Texas fiasco was that the cars were spending too much in the corners where the drivers were subject to heavy gforces .... And that they were so fast down the striaghts the blood didn't have time to 'settle'

I agree that faster on the straights and slower in the corners wouldn't be a problem at the speedway ..... But at Texas and the other cookie cutters maybe the opposite would be safer?

Thoughts?

[NickFalzone]

Starter .... To your last sentence

my understanding of the cart Texas fiasco was that the cars were spending too much in the corners where the drivers were subject to heavy gforces .... And that they were so fast down the striaghts the blood didn't have time to 'settle'

I agree that faster on the straights and slower in the corners wouldn't be a problem at the speedway ..... But at Texas and the other cookie cutters maybe the opposite would be safer?

Thoughts?

Someone asked Scheckter about that on Twitter yesterday, and he mentioned that they could use "G-suits" in those cases with really high G's. Not sure if that's a legit option, or he meant it the way I interpreted it. But it sounded like they have a way to absorb some of the g forces with either helmet or suit or something. He also said that Texas is nothing compared to Richmond, and the first time he drove there he puked once he got out of the car, but after awhile your body just gets used to it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

If I remember correctly (always a dodgy issue :p ), the problem was the high banks. It allowed them to run such high speeds that centrifugal force was causing their blood to "drain" out of their heads causing the drivers to black out. Very similar to what fighter pilots experience in high G turns.


That was it. The only CART guy who didn't admit to feeling woozy was PT, and he was just being macho. THat and he has not much of a neck!!!

I said it before, Texas was the first time in racing history the cars were dishing out more than the drivers could handle.

Getting back to Sao Paolo, I don't like the lack of techical corners. I like that they will have overtaking zones, but you can have both if you put in a bit of effort. I hope they change this design a bit......

[SarahFan]

If I remember correctly (always a dodgy issue :p ), the problem was the high banks. It allowed them to run such high speeds that centrifugal force was causing their blood to "drain" out of their heads causing the drivers to black out. Very similar to what fighter pilots experience in high G turns.

I think thats exactly the case.......but also that the cars/racers were not spending enough time in the straights to allow the blood to 'level' back out throughout the body...

is texas higher banked than the other cookie cutters?.... if so is it the only track that raises concern about raising speeds in regards to THIS issue?

so wouldn't it make sense to slow them on the straights and speed them up on the corners?

thoughts?

[Hoop-98]

Various Texas G Forces

http://i47.tinypic.com/im2qzm.jpg

CART speeds read artificially high on ovals by (except INDY) about 2.5 PCT due to the FIA track measuring method. Those are the vector Sums of the G Forces.

rh

[Wilf]

Various Texas G Forces

http://i47.tinypic.com/im2qzm.jpg

CART speeds read artificially high on ovals by (except INDY) about 2.5 PCT due to the FIA track measuring method. Those are the vector Sums of the G Forces.

rh

I can't remember for sure, but I thought there were comments about the bumps at Texas which would cause spikes in the loading. Does anyone have a similar recollection?

[gofastandwynn]

Also to point out that the IRL used to be much fast at Texas when the cars had the 4.0L engines from 1997-99. Fastest lap in the 98 summer race was 228.012mph, so this might be the threshold for the track.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It seems when you get up above 4.5 g in the corner sustained, you start to push the envelope. Texas has about 24 degrees of banking if I am not mistaken, and the CART boys had close to 850 to 900 hp, so they really were hustling into the corner. The IRL cars are below that threshold, but I wouldn't say doing 228 at a bumpy track like Texas would be easy. Regardless of what the new formula for IRL will be, Texas will have to be kept in mind as will Iowa. Flat ovals work best for Indycars in my opinion. Anytime you race on high banked ovals, or tight moderately banked ones like Richmond, I think the incredible speeds reached do not always translate into good racing.

[Hoop-98]

Human tolerance of G-Forces varies considerably. Much more than the .2 difference between 2002 CART and 2003 IRL. The seating position difference in the cars may be a factor. The IRL more reclined position would potentially, according to Aircraft research, be better for the higher G's, particularly the vertical component.

http://i46.tinypic.com/21eixd.jpg

I used the segment times from both series for corner speed calculations.

rh

[SarahFan]

Hoop.... for comparisons sake do you have the lateral and vertical g's for the cars/racers at IMS

[Hoop-98]

Hoop.... for comparisons sake do you have the lateral and vertical g's for the cars/racers at IMS


http://i49.tinypic.com/30t74zn.jpg

rh

[DanicaFan]

They finally released the track layout at Sao Paulo. It is a 2.6 mile, 11 turn circuit.

Here it is...

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/sao_paulocircuit.jpg

[NickFalzone]

Danicafan, I assume you got that from the indycar article posted today?

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=15687

[ykiki]

They finally released the track layout at Sao Paulo. It is a 2.6 mile, 11 turn circuit.

Here it is...

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/sao_paulocircuit.jpg

Hopefully the cars coming out of Turn 6 will be able to spot the cars exiting the pits.

[nigelred5]

looks like the actual exit is past the turn and on track cars should be well outside in the racing line. Im sure ther will be a long blend line. hopefully that straight is long enough for the the cars on track and those exiting the pits to blend when the racing line moves across track.

[Chamoo]

Turn 10 looks like it could cause some problems for drivers. After all the 90 degree turns they are facing, they will be faced with a (approx) 100 degree turn. Will probably catch some drivers snoozing and introduce them to the outside wall. Could be a good spot for passing though.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It looks far better as a track design than the original proposal we first saw in the fall....but it still lacks a really signature turn.

[DanicaFan]

Here is a video showing Felipe Giaffone driving the proposed track. It isnt in English and the video gets kind of confusing but it will give some sense, for now, as to what the track will be like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKbRL0ojlU4&NR=1

[SarahFan]

https://livepass.showare.com.br/Performance/ShoWareFrontEndPerSectionReservation.aspx?PERFORMA NCEID=23


and they are selling tickets!

[Lousada]

https://livepass.showare.com.br/Performance/ShoWareFrontEndPerSectionReservation.aspx?PERFORMA NCEID=23


and they are selling tickets!

Didn't they sell tickets for the Phoenix Grand Prix?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Didn't they sell tickets for the Phoenix Grand Prix?

They did, but I suspect the lesson was learned AND they have the city on board for this. Phoenix was entangled with red tape and controversay on all levels from the word go. We may quibble about the time line and aspects of the track, but no one in Brazil is fighting this event's place there. Unlike Phoenix where ISC and others interests were fighting the idea of a street race, from what we have seen and heard (not much since I don't speak Portugeuse and I suspect no one else does on this board as a regular) there is no dissent really about this event.

It will come off, and while I don't like the adhoc rush that preceded it, it will come off and probably will get good reviews.

[HenryM]

a virtual lap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n2rOoYgowg

sorry if it's a repost!

[Blancvino]

a virtual lap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n2rOoYgowg

sorry if it's a repost!


How about some photos or video as to the CURRENT status of preparations?

[NickFalzone]

How about some photos or video as to the CURRENT status of preparations?

this is the best we got at the moment:

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=15697

[HenryM]

How about some photos or video as to the CURRENT status of preparations?

I found these pics on flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14508754@N03/page4/

it seems that there is a lot of work to be done....

and there are also worries about the weather, it's being raining quite a lot in São Paulo and a lot of flooding

at least the trophy is ready lol
http://colunistas.ig.com.br/flaviogomes/files/2010/02/trofindy.JPG

[Mark in Oshawa]

That is one gorgeous trophy Henry. I have faith the people of Sao Paulo will embrace the event.

[Blancvino]

I found these pics on flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14508754@N03/page4/

it seems that there is a lot of work to be done....

and there are also worries about the weather, it's being raining quite a lot in São Paulo and a lot of flooding

at least the trophy is ready lol
http://colunistas.ig.com.br/flaviogomes/files/2010/02/trofindy.JPG


Holly crap Batman ... this is going to be completed, on time?

[Lousada]

Uncle Bernie has woken up. He is angry that he was not consulted that another race will be held in Sao Paolo. Now the FIA might not approve the track, which would automaticly lead to cancelation.
http://esporte.uol.com.br/velocidade/ultimas-noticias/2010/02/15/asfalto-da-indy-em-sao-paulo-so-ficara-pronto-cinco-dias-antes-da-prova.jhtm

[SarahFan]

Uncle Bernie has woken up. He is angry that he was not consulted that another race will be held in Sao Paolo. Now the FIA might not approve the track, which would automaticly lead to cancelation.
http://esporte.uol.com.br/velocidade/ultimas-noticias/2010/02/15/asfalto-da-indy-em-sao-paulo-so-ficara-pronto-cinco-dias-antes-da-prova.jhtm



maybe he saw the delta wing and relizes AOWR is a threat again and figures better nip it in the bud early this time

[Mark in Oshawa]

Uncle Bernie has woken up. He is angry that he was not consulted that another race will be held in Sao Paolo. Now the FIA might not approve the track, which would automaticly lead to cancelation.
http://esporte.uol.com.br/velocidade/ultimas-noticias/2010/02/15/asfalto-da-indy-em-sao-paulo-so-ficara-pronto-cinco-dias-antes-da-prova.jhtm

It is amazing how Bernie feels he can legally restrain a racing series with his corrupt cousins in the FIA from racing in a place or track with a car he has no time for. Did I fall down a rabbit hole with Alice? Believe me, the organziers pay Bernie 5% of the take, and he will do commercials for this thing....

[Blancvino]

It is amazing how Bernie feels he can legally restrain a racing series with his corrupt cousins in the FIA from racing in a place or track with a car he has no time for. Did I fall down a rabbit hole with Alice? Believe me, the organziers pay Bernie 5% of the take, and he will do commercials for this thing....

This could take care of itself if the preparations are going as well as they appear.