WRC moves to Motors TV

[cali]

If all of it becomes true, then I'm all for it. More onboards is what I personally have missed for several years now.

http://www.motorstv.com/car/rally/16112009/motors-tv-and-the-wrc-breaks-new-ground

[Pinto]

so will the coverage move from eurosport

[cali]

so will the coverage move from eurosport

As I understood it, YES

[Francis44]

How can this be good??

Most of the European countrys dont have Motorsports TV, this is UTTERLY BAD NEWS!!!!

[Copse]

I don't know what to think. MotorsTV are notorious for showing stuff a week delayed for no good reason.

If you want to turn the TV on and see some good racing, they're a good choice, but if you want the excitement of watching something actually happening that weekend, they're of no help whatsoever.

Edit: Seems I missed my point. Despite their best intentions, chances are that they'll screw up WRC coverage royally.

[MJW]

Dont panic, Motors TV is a Eurosport owned channel, maybe WRC doesnt get delayed because of some ball sport or running and jumping type sports.

[bluuford]

Dont panic, Motors TV is a Eurosport owned channel, maybe WRC doesnt get delayed because of some ball sport or running and jumping type sports.
Yeah, it was really annoying in Eurosport that in some occasions you had to wait almost half the night to see WRC and when the WRC and IRC and snooker clashed, then there was no time for sleep :-)
And I have really enjoyed their 24 hour Le Mans coverage. So, as you can understand, it is possible to watch Motors TV in Estonia :-)

[Macd]

Will this mean it is no longer on Dave?

If yes, Thank god!!

[sal]

Bugger! Looks like I'll have to give Murdoch my shilling as dont get cable out where I live.

[Juha_Koo]

What a wise man Frédéric Viger is. :up:

Shame that I don't have access to MotorsTV. Their concept feels like just made for me.

[Lousada]

This will be a joy for fans. MotorsTV currently does not have high-profile racing series so the WRC will be treated first class and coverage will be extended. Just the daily roundups will be twice as long as on Eurosport if I understand correctly. They also have the time and means to show more marginal footage like onboards. And no more Snooker delays! I for sure love what they are doing with the Rallycross coverage!

Those who will not be happy will be the sponsors. As Mr. Viger says, this is a channel for hardcore fans. Ratings will plummet big time. It is telling that Le Mans prefers to be treated second rate on Eurosport rather than two weeks of non-stop wall-to-wall coverage on MotorsTV.

[N.O.T]

I think we have to wait and see its easy to promote your show with words...the result is what matters.

I hope they treat the sport the way it deserves.

[bf1_IRL]

Ehh.. as far as I know MotorsTV is an independent channel and has no connection to the TF1/Eurosport organisation..

[M5]

For those who want to, there seems to be possibilities:
http://www.motorstv.com/get-motors-tv

I am hoping for more Virtual spectator analyzes, to spot the differences btw the drivers.
This tool need to be better used in the future !
http://www.virtualspectator.com/vs-sub-vs-nz.html

[I am evil Homer]

Well now i can't watch WRC at all unless I fork out for Sky. Which I won't do. Aty least on Dave it was available to anyone with Freeview...seems like a backwards step.

[MrJan]

I am hoping for more Virtual spectator analyzes, to spot the differences btw the drivers.
This tool need to be better used in the future !
http://www.virtualspectator.com/vs-sub-vs-nz.html

Are you taking the piss? NO NO NO NO AND NO. VS is one of the most abhorrent and catastrophic things to happen to rallying over the last 5 or so years. I would rather no manufacturers with no VS than have 3 or 4 teams and have to put up with watching a stupid computer representation of rallying.

Out on the stages you don't need something to show you who is quicker, you can watch and guess before finding out the times later. TV should be no different and all virtual spectator does is take up valuable time which could be used with real footage of the cars doing stuff, which is what most rally fans want to see.

Don't care about Motors TV as long as it's still on terrestial, if WRC moves to satellite only then it'll be the final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

[sal]

British Rally Championship coverage moved to satellite tv in the UK around the same time the series went into a steep decline and no coverage of the WRC on terrestrial or free to view tv here will see the world series dip even futher off the radar. Even Bernie realised F1 coverage wouldnt work if everyone had to subscribe so how come ISC think they know better?

[AndyRAC]

British Rally Championship coverage moved to satellite tv in the UK around the same time the series went into a steep decline and no coverage of the WRC on terrestrial or free to view tv here will see the world series dip even futher off the radar. Even Bernie realised F1 coverage wouldnt work if everyone had to subscribe so how come ISC think they know better?

Maybe the big question is that 'Normal/Terrestrial' TV aren't interested in Rallying - unless they are paid to show it.

[HaCo]

According to this article Eurosport keeps on showing daily highlights.
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2009/11/17/motors-tv-uebertraegt-die-wrc/index.html

[Simmi]

This seems like on the face of it good news for the real fans. The ones who can get Motors anyway. The fact is ratings wont be good. But as it is we either have coverage buried and un-prioritised on Eurosport. Or have it hidden away on Motors TV but with a worthy show. At least us fans wont be getting F'ed over with live clashes.

People saying Motors will mess it up aren't thinking. This is still going to be ISC content like before. All Motors do is allow them the platform to give more airtime to the WRC. Lets face it Motors has lost every good contract it ever had - it can spare HOURS to rallying.

What does concern me is them trying to market this through the addition of increased onboard material. To me the one thing the WRC footage doesn't need is more onboards. What I truly hope is that they will be able to move away from the core four-car plus a brief summary coverage they do now. With the S2000 cup starting this extra time will be ideal.

The longer time frame also gives an opportunity for ISC to get out of their lazy interchangable rehash coverage they churn out every event.

My biggest fear is that it will only serve (with more ad breaks dont forget) to pad out their already sparse coverage with more onboards, pointless split screens and, *shudders* Virtual Spectator. The bottom line is that unless the ISC commit to putting more camera crews in stages - there isn't going to be any more 'real' footage.

I'll wait to pass judgement until they begin, but I just hope they dont think they can spin us the same garbage but just for double the amount of time.

[Juha_Koo]

What does concern me is them trying to market this through the addition of increased onboard material. To me the one thing the WRC footage doesn't need is more onboards.

W-w-wwhat? :eek: Why?

[Josti]

W-w-wwhat? :eek: Why?

As Simmi said, they should put more camera's on the stages, rather than inside the car (let alone they tried every onboard angle already there). It's pretty obvious the general excitement of rallying comes from the outside view, not the inside.

About Motors TV, it's sad I don't have it, but to be honest the Eurosport coverage was too short, not that good and not very punctual as many already said. The absolute downfall for me was at the Rally GB coverage, when they decided it was more important to show a Harry Potter movie star, rather than following a rally car coming by. That was embarrising.

[Simmi]

W-w-wwhat? :eek: Why?

While I respect your opinion, I personally am tired of the onboards. They aren't even of a good quality these days.

I fear the coverage will be "now lets ride onboard with Seb, looking at the back of his seats".

Or "now lets watch Mikko for the next 2K's, only we will just look at his facial expressions, then cut to his feet."

The more I think about it the more negative I feel. It's hard to look at anything the ISC do with much optimism.

Long added: "There's no way we can put all of the on-board footage into our international programme - a programme with broader appeal for those fans who want a 365-degree perspective on the sport – but Motors will certainly be making use of all the on-boards."

So reading between the lines this is him saying:
"OK we now have an hour to fill. We wont actually do any work to improve our product or add new features. But at least we can now use all those onboard shots we normally leave on the cutting room floor. I'm sure we can probably pad out the time without actually working too hard, or using a single creative braincell."

[hari]

According to this article Eurosport keeps on showing daily highlights.
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2009/11/17/motors-tv-uebertraegt-die-wrc/index.html

Sorry, but this article says nothing about the future of Eurosport broadcasting.

[Rallyper]

I´d say that one camera in each of the 5-10 first car live the whole time of every leg would be great. I could pay a few bucks every time just being able to watch live inside Sebs car through out a competition!! :D

[SubaruNorway]

Looks like nothing on Eurosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80179

[General Prim]

What? No one in Spain has any idea about this station or where to find. At least Eurosport is easy to connect even without paying just listening in German.
If anybody in Spain must pay even 0.1 cent ISC will loose one of the TWO spectators yet watching WRC on television (the only one remaining will be Sordo's father), so boring is

ISC want really to promote WRC????. Not in this way. Give me back Montecarlo, Safari and Corsica, PLEASE.

[Simmi]

Has this whole thing actually been confirmed as Europe-wide? Or just UK?

[Rally Power]

Motors TV is a Eurosport owned channel

Where did you get that info?

[Mirek]

Dont panic, Motors TV is a Eurosport owned channel, maybe WRC doesnt get delayed because of some ball sport or running and jumping type sports.

Are You sure?

List of Eurosport Events brands: http://www.eurosportcorporate.com/index.php?target=8

[Lousada]

Let me get this straight: MotorsTV is replacing Eurosport coverage right. So the national programmes like on DAVE will not be affected by this? Or is MotorsTV now the exclusive broadcast partner in Europe?

[Blitzerflitzer]

No one in Spain has any idea about this station or where to find.

this side help?

How to receive Motors TV (http://www.motorstv.com/get-motors-tv)

[Larry_Japan]

As far as I can work out:

- Eurosport no longer showing WRC in 2010 (certainly UK, possibly Europe-wide). Arguably to do with their IRC bias & unreliable scheduling
- ISC seeking individual deals with national broadcasters to replace blanket Eurosport deal
- MotorsTV in UK gets daily 48min highlights package, footage substantially bulked-out from existing daily 26min highlights package with onboards, aimed at rally purists
- Dave continues for 2010 with entertainment/magazine WRC show on Sundays of events, aimed at casual viewer/general petrolhead

[Juha_Koo]

I´d say that one camera in each of the 5-10 first car live the whole time of every leg would be great. I could pay a few bucks every time just being able to watch live inside Sebs car through out a competition!! :D

You're not the only one. :) Just think the increased exitement while watching live onboard - you don't know what will happen!

Let's think that you've watched someone for few kms and the driving is very, very aggressive. You gasp air few times because of close calls. Then one corner again, bit too much cutting, car hits a rock and goes to a violent roll. You say "Ohh!" just on the same second as the crew does. Damn, are they okay? "Are you okay? Are you okay?" "Yes, I'm fine. I'll radio the supervisor, you get out and warn the next one.. Remember to take the OK sign!" Then switching the view to the next car...

No, I don't want accidents to happen but I used a bit non-normal situation to describe the system. That would be just like sitting in the backseat.

[Simmi]

You're not the only one. :) Just think the increased exitement while watching live onboard - you don't know what will happen!

Let's think that you've watched someone for few kms and the driving is very, very aggressive. You gasp air few times because of close calls. Then one corner again, bit too much cutting, car hits a rock and goes to a violent roll. You say "Ohh!" just on the same second as the crew does. Damn, are they okay? "Are you okay? Are you okay?" "Yes, I'm fine. I'll radio the supervisor, you get out and warn the next one.. Remember to take the OK sign!" Then switching the view to the next car...

No, I don't want accidents to happen but I used a bit non-normal situation to describe the system. That would be just like sitting in the backseat.

No doubt onboards are important and have their place. That action you speak of sounds like something we would have seen 10-15 years ago. You still get some thrilling onboards in Finland but apart from that. The cars just aren't exciting enough. It's not often you can really see from an onboard that someone is being aggressive IMO. They are a nice way of conveying speed though, that I will say.

If someone is going to roll spectacularly I'm of the school of thought where I'd rather see it from the outside. That is where all the iconic rallying moments really come from, seeing a car sliding on maximum attack - rather than looking through a windscreen. That is why I would prefer more cameramen in the stages. Ideally get a heli up. Any wild moment I see through an onboard camera, my first reaction is I hope someone got some footage of that from the outside.

They showed Urmo Aava go off in Ireland this year from an onboard camera. I still have literally no idea how that accident came about. It just didnt give me enough information. Perfect example of how onboards should be used is 2002, Roman Kresta on the Monte. They show the onboard footage of a fairly small crash into a wall. Then you see the full insane scale via helicopter of the plunging drop below. I just dont see how you can convey rallying's great events from the inside.

That's just a bit of a rant and not really directed at you Juha_Koo. I'm just frustrated that they appear to have a great new extended time slot and they are just going to fill it with monotonous onboard footage. It's lazy IMO.

[Juha_Koo]

No doubt onboards are important and have their place. That action you speak of sounds like something we would have seen 10-15 years ago. You still get some thrilling onboards in Finland but apart from that. The cars just aren't exciting enough. It's not often you can really see from an onboard that someone is being aggressive IMO. They are a nice way of conveying speed though, that I will say.

If someone is going to roll spectacularly I'm of the school of thought where I'd rather see it from the outside. That is where all the iconic rallying moments really come from, seeing a car sliding on maximum attack - rather than looking through a windscreen. That is why I would prefer more cameramen in the stages. Ideally get a heli up. Any wild moment I see through an onboard camera, my first reaction is I hope someone got some footage of that from the outside.

They showed Urmo Aava go off in Ireland this year from an onboard camera. I still have literally no idea how that accident came about. It just didnt give me enough information. Perfect example of how onboards should be used is 2002, Roman Kresta on the Monte. They show the onboard footage of a fairly small crash into a wall. Then you see the full insane scale via helicopter of the plunging drop below. I just dont see how you can convey rallying's great events from the inside.

That's just a bit of a rant and not really directed at you Juha_Koo. I'm just frustrated that they appear to have a great new extended time slot and they are just going to fill it with monotonous onboard footage. It's lazy IMO.

Okay, I'll too have to start by saying that there's nothing personal here. :) Just different opinions on different matters. But I can't help myself bringing out my views for some of your points.

What's up with that action bit? We have action nowdays. I also think that Finland is not the only country that produces great onboards. This year we had Ireland, Norway, Poland, Australia and many others that produced great onboards. I tend to appreciate different kind of onboards, I'd say my "specialities" are bumpy tarmac and high speed gravel. I just don't watch onboards to see the driving itself, but to see the stage charecteristics.

And thanks to the fact that we have the fastest rally cars in the rallying history the footage is really spectacular. As for the comment about not being able to see who is aggressive and who is not... I can only say that you haven't watched enough of onboards... Because I can always tell is the driver pushing or not.

Onboards also pay tribute to the unsung heroes of rallying: the codrivers. I'll have to admit that one of the main reasons why I watch onboards is the possibility to hear (and see) the codrivers in action and seeing different pace note systems in action. As a side hobby, I've started to investigate the differences in pace notes in different languages. I can completely understand pacenotes read in five different languages and if I take the I-can-understand-some-bits to the counting, the figure goes up like a rocket.

I always think just the opposite about the footage in case of a mishap. :D But ofcourse I love external shots as well. But for me, the commentary by the crew tells dozen times more than commentator's "Ohhhh and it's rally over for them!" comments. But I also agree on the helicam matter. More of that please.

As for the Aava's off, it was a pretty clear case. There wasn't enough information in the notes about the slippy corner, Urmo came to the corner at a normal speed and lost the back end very quickly like usually on wet tarmac. Counter-steer came tenth of a second too late and when the slide ended there wasn't enough room on the narrow road for the car to straighten and left-hand wheels dropped in to a water drain.

[Rallyper]

Onboard cameras doesn´t exclude outside filming as usually is been doing. It´s just the complement that´s missing, I think.

Juha_Koo I do agrre with your description you gave.... ;)

[Lousada]

You must love the IRC, because that is exactly what they have been doing this year.

[eloyf1]

this side help?

How to receive Motors TV (http://www.motorstv.com/get-motors-tv)One of them only works in Galicia, and the other one has limited coverage through the country, so I think I'll have to thank Eurosport for making of me a Curling and Snooker fan...

And as some of you said, the last thing that WRC TV coverage needs is more onboard cameras... Nowadays, they put them near three meters from the windscreen, so we can't watch anything!

[White Sauron]

A guy on Russian Eurosport just confirmed that there will be NO WRC coverage at all next year on Eurosport.

[MJW]

Where did you get that info?
Maybe I am wrong, but here in UK they used tp seem to share commentators, Carlton Kirby, Martin Haven etc.
Looks like I was wrong.

[Sulland]

What is the message to Motors TV for them to improve the WRC coverage, seen both from a Petrolhead and to get more people interessted in Rally ?

What would be the best way ahead if you could decide ?

[Simmi]

What is the message to Motors TV for them to improve the WRC coverage, seen both from a Petrolhead and to get more people interessted in Rally ?

What would be the best way ahead if you could decide ?

It isn't down to Motors TV. All they will do is simply air the same tired ISC content that Eurosport did. Only now it will be a bit longer. So really the question should be directed at ISC.

All Motors can do is give it a good timeslot and dont mess around with their scheduling. They should have no problem doing this as they have nothing else of worth on their books. And no live coverage.

[HaCo]

And why the move to MotorsTV?

[SchUMine]

We don't have chance to watch Motors TV in Turkey! This is a big shame if you think that there is one round in Istanbul this year!

I am very much dissapointed...

[Tomi]

Here in Finland WRC is still on MTV3 the next 5 years, they made a new contract with ISC, else they show national championship and F-Cup too, enough i think.

[J4MIE]

Am in the process of getting Sky at the moment (though mainly for IRC coverage) so I won't notice any difference.

Think there should be more helicopter coverage though, I always find that really amazing to watch :)

[Simmi]

Not related to WRC moving but it was interesting to see Autosport's David Evans putting the boot into Eurosport for their poor IRC coverage. Not their live stuff but rather the reviews - specifically the one from Rally Scotland.

I've said for a while they have a lot of work to do. It's just not up to scratch in some areas. Still can't wait for Monte mind you!

Jamie I'd recommend you fork out the bit extra for Sky+. Literally is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Brother John]

ISC already problems with the WRC rally organizers! :p :

Source only in German!
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/top/topnews/d16/d/2009/12/15/neuer-aerger-wegen-isc/index.html

[MJW]

Not related to WRC moving but it was interesting to see Autosport's David Evans putting the boot into Eurosport for their poor IRC coverage. Not their live stuff but rather the reviews - specifically the one from Rally Scotland.

I've said for a while they have a lot of work to do. It's just not up to scratch in some areas. Still can't wait for Monte mind you!

Jamie I'd recommend you fork out the bit extra for Sky+. Literally is the best thing since sliced bread.

I have noticed that David Evans does seem to toe the corporate ISC line far more than Jerry Williams........

[Simmi]

I have noticed that David Evans does seem to toe the corporate ISC line far more than Jerry Williams........

Possibly he does but I think genuinely they deserved criticism for some of their programming.

[AndyRAC]

I have noticed that David Evans does seem to toe the corporate ISC line far more than Jerry Williams........

Yes, quite true, in fact Jerry sticks the boot in frequently, wherea David tends to defend the WRC to the hilt. I want objective journalism, which is why his comments on the IRC RallyScotland highlights package, while justified were almost gleeful.

[Tomi]

A little statistic about rally on tv worldwide, WRC did have this year 633 million cumulative spectators, and was showed on TV, 5678 hours.

For comparison the irc figures are, cumulative spectators 16 millions, tv hours 212.

[HaCo]

I wonder how they do calculate values like that...

[Simmi]

A little statistic about rally on tv worldwide, WRC did have this year 633 million cumulative spectators, and was showed on TV, 5678 hours.

For comparison the irc figures are, cumulative spectators 16 millions, tv hours 212.

That's what you quote when people start saying manufacturers should go to the IRC. I have no idea what a cumulative spectator is. But that's a massive gulf between the two series.

[Juha_Koo]

A little statistic about rally on tv worldwide, WRC did have this year 633 million cumulative spectators, and was showed on TV, 5678 hours.

For comparison the irc figures are, cumulative spectators 16 millions, tv hours 212.

Hahah. :D Talk about IRC providing good visibility for the sponsors and manufacturers...


I wonder how they do calculate values like that...

Yeah, no wonder that you wonder when WRC looks better. It's okay to like some serie, but hey, facts are always facts and there's no point trying to questionize them.

[Tomi]

Hahah. :D Talk about IRC providing good visibility for the sponsors and manufacturers...

Lol yes, but it also shows that WRC is also a marginal sport in motorsport, but still on a completely different level on the visibility as well, compairing to the minor rally series.

[Lousada]

A little statistic about rally on tv worldwide, WRC did have this year 633 million cumulative spectators, and was showed on TV, 5678 hours.

For comparison the irc figures are, cumulative spectators 16 millions, tv hours 212.

That's on average 111.000 per hour for the WRC and 75.000 for the IRC, so not a very big gap. Especially considering the IRC is a cheaper series to run.
Plus, the IRC figures are 99% key markets, namely the European countries. While the WRC figures on the other hand are for a large part made up from third world numbers that can only be guessed, from markets that are not very interesting to sponsors. I'd say value for money is around the same.

Edit: both numbers are very *** though. F1 gets 100.000.000 for one grandprix, so that's tens of millions per hour on average.

[Tomi]

That's on average 111.000 per hour for the WRC and 75.000 for the IRC, so not a very big gap. Especially considering the IRC is a cheaper series to run.
Plus, the IRC figures are 99% key markets, namely the European countries. While the WRC figures on the other hand are for a large part made up from third world numbers that can only be guessed, from markets that are not very interesting to sponsors. I'd say value for money is around the same.

Edit: both numbers are very *** though. F1 gets 100.000.000 for one grandprix, so that's tens of millions per hour on average.

its true you can read statistics in many ways, what do you mean by numbers that can only be guessed? Not so sure eurosport in huge economic problems see 75000 as a very good figure.

[Lousada]

That's what you quote when people start saying manufacturers should go to the IRC. I have no idea what a cumulative spectator is. But that's a massive gulf between the two series.

Cumulative spectator means they add every number from every seperate show together. So let's say there were 40 one hour shows on DAVE and you watched them all. That means you are counted 40 times in this cumulative number. 633 million spectators does not mean 633 million individuals, but 633 million times someone somewhere was watching a WRC show.

[Lousada]

its true you can read statistics in many ways, what do you mean by numbers that can only be guessed? Not so sure eurosport in huge economic problems see 75000 as a very good figure.

There are only 20 countries or so that accurately measure tv-ratings nationwide. In the rest of the world they use estimates with a variety of different methods. These numbers can easily be twisted or inflated to your liking. Bernie Ecclestone is a master with this, just look how many Chinese people supposedly watch every Grand Prix.
I agree that 75000 people Europe-wide looks terrible. But on the other hand rally is mostly scheduled in off-hours - late at night or in the morning. Also remember that Eurosport 2 has a much smaller reach. Plus I think there are huge differences between rallies, the Monte was viewed by more persons than the Safari.

Of course, there is also a reason why they are shopping their WTCC and IRC tv-rights around in every country; to get some return! I think that is part of their strategy with owning their own racing series.

[DonJippo]

Plus, the IRC figures are 99% key markets, namely the European countries. While the WRC figures on the other hand are for a large part made up from third world numbers that can only be guessed, from markets that are not very interesting to sponsors.

I don't know about this, I think car markets are pretty even between Asia, Europe and North America so I do believe areas outside of Europe are as interesting if not even more than Europe for sponsors.

[Juha_Koo]

I don't know about this, I think car markets are pretty even between Asia, Europe and North America so I do believe areas outside of Europe are as interesting if not even more than Europe for sponsors.

I'm pretty sure that manufacturers appreciate media visibility in China, India and all countries that have developed a lot recently and cars have become a real possibility for the middle class.

Rally start and finish ceremonies seem to be rather big events in China... Lots of good marketing value to be gained there. Atleast that's the impression I've got from Välimäki's adventures there.

[Lousada]

I don't know about this, I think car markets are pretty even between Asia, Europe and North America so I do believe areas outside of Europe are as interesting if not even more than Europe for sponsors.

Depends on what sponsors. M-sport for example is sponsored by Ford Europe. The entity Ford Europe does not care about sales in North America because that revenue goes to Ford US. Citroen doesn't even sell cars in North America. So these sponsors will retract the North American numbers from these statistics.
In my own baseless opinion I think that currently all the sponsors in the WRC are focussed on Europe. Australasia used to be important too and probably will be again when the Japanese manufacturers return.

[Tomi]

In my own baseless opinion I think that currently all the sponsors in the WRC are focussed on Europe.

Thats not true, there will soon be events in places like South Africa and India, the initiative for theese comes from the manufacturers.

[Lousada]

I'm pretty sure that manufacturers appreciate media visibility in China, India and all countries that have developed a lot recently and cars have become a real possibility for the middle class.

Most global corporations have regional divisions that can spend their own marketing euros. It's very seldom that a multinational uses a truely global sports strategy, and even more seldom that they use it on something so marginal as WRC.


Rally start and finish ceremonies seem to be rather big events in China... Lots of good marketing value to be gained there. Atleast that's the impression I've got from Välimäki's adventures there.

Yes, probably. However, China was in the IRC for two years and nobody in Europe cared. Where I am living rallies are locally big events too. On a national level however it still means nothing. Sponsors that can afford the WRC do not look at the live specators, but at the national impact. Which is still small in China.

[Lousada]

Thats not true, there will soon be events in places like South Africa and India, the initiative for theese comes from the manufacturers.

What manufacturers and what is soon? Again, the IRC attempted this and nobody showed even the slightest interest.

[Tomi]

What manufacturers and what is soon?

in 2 years, in general most initiatives comes from the manufacturers.

[Lousada]

in 2 years, in general most initiatives comes from the manufacturers.

In two years, that means there will be candidate events next year?? I had not read about that yet.
Again I ask which manufacturers? Was it Ford and/or Citroen? Because I specifically said: sponsors that are CURRENTLY in the WRC. New manufacturers always try to impose their strategies on the wrc before they join.

[Tomi]

In two years, that means there will be candidate events next year?? I had not read about that yet.
Again I ask which manufacturers? Was it Ford and/or Citroen? Because I specifically said: sponsors that are CURRENTLY in the WRC. New manufacturers always try to impose their strategies on the wrc before they join.

Current manufacturers, offcourse.

[Simmi]

In two years, that means there will be candidate events next year?? I had not read about that yet.
Again I ask which manufacturers? Was it Ford and/or Citroen? Because I specifically said: sponsors that are CURRENTLY in the WRC. New manufacturers always try to impose their strategies on the wrc before they join.

Forgetting sponsors for a minute. To say that Ford ultimately doesn't care about the American market is not true IMO. Despite it being bankrolled by Ford Europe, it is all part of one huge automotive company. So if the American arm of Ford is suffering then the European side will surely suffer too. It is naive to say Ford wouldn't want the WRC to go to America. It is all of a mutual benefit for FMC.

[Leon]

Rallying visibility and popularity (WRC, IRC or else) should be counted by the people/followers from the stages and service parks not from the TV screen. me thinks

[WRCS14]

This has me worried for a number of reasons. A good few years ago Motors tv had many top world race series shown with full live coverage whether it was from the US or Europe. Then if the new years budget wasnt there or sponsorship issues they would chop it for the following year with pretty much no explanation, so you went from 100% coverage to practically zero.

Back in the day the WRC used to land on our screens one week after the rally in a half hour programme which seemed to be linked to the BBC but it was well produced none the less.

Then some expert correct me if I am wrong but wasnt it Eurosport who started doing nightly coverage during the Monte carlo rally back in 1998, it was only 15min at the start but this was a mega change at the time. Rally results and footage on the same day and without having to use teletext! Internet wasnt so big at the time for many people. Even now with Dave producing an ok 1 hour programme on Sunday evening, Eurosport is what I still watch on Friday/Saturday to get the most up to date footage.

I am not going to complain about the in-cars looking at back of drivers seats or rubbish commentators as I remember vividly what it was like back in the early to mid nineties. Actually when I think about it Motoring News or Autosport type magazines in the middle of the week following the rally was usually how we found out about what happ and got to see the pictures. I think Eurosport have done us excellent service regarding the WRC over the years. They showed live stages also in Corisca maybe 1999 was it? What other Sky or pan European channell has done this since please?

I hate seeing these channels like Motors tv, or in the past didnt Channel 4 promise the world with the WRC only for them to dump it again within a year or two. I would much prefer to see solid continuity rather than some head of programming tell us in December about how great its going to be, then for same person to close the door on the WRC two years later. Mark my words, I promise you this will happen. I reckon the same will happen to Dave at some point, it is not a sporty channell over all and the coverage is out of turn in that respect.

Snooker or not I for one am going to be sad to see Eurosport loose the coverage after putting in the effort to keep us informed over the years.

[Simmi]

This has me worried for a number of reasons. A good few years ago Motors tv had many top world race series shown with full live coverage whether it was from the US or Europe. Then if the new years budget wasnt there or sponsorship issues they would chop it for the following year with pretty much no explanation, so you went from 100% coverage to practically zero.

Back in the day the WRC used to land on our screens one week after the rally in a half hour programme which seemed to be linked to the BBC but it was well produced none the less.

Then some expert correct me if I am wrong but wasnt it Eurosport who started doing nightly coverage during the Monte carlo rally back in 1998, it was only 15min at the start but this was a mega change at the time. Rally results and footage on the same day and without having to use teletext! Internet wasnt so big at the time for many people. Even now with Dave producing an ok 1 hour programme on Sunday evening, Eurosport is what I still watch on Friday/Saturday to get the most up to date footage.

I am not going to complain about the in-cars looking at back of drivers seats or rubbish commentators as I remember vividly what it was like back in the early to mid nineties. Actually when I think about it Motoring News or Autosport type magazines in the middle of the week following the rally was usually how we found out about what happ and got to see the pictures. I think Eurosport have done us excellent service regarding the WRC over the years. They showed live stages also in Corisca maybe 1999 was it? What other Sky or pan European channell has done this since please?

I hate seeing these channels like Motors tv, or in the past didnt Channel 4 promise the world with the WRC only for them to dump it again within a year or two. I would much prefer to see solid continuity rather than some head of programming tell us in December about how great its going to be, then for same person to close the door on the WRC two years later. Mark my words, I promise you this will happen. I reckon the same will happen to Dave at some point, it is not a sporty channell over all and the coverage is out of turn in that respect.

Snooker or not I for one am going to be sad to see Eurosport loose the coverage after putting in the effort to keep us informed over the years.

Some valid points but I don't really see the difference whether it stays at Eurosport or not. I mean lets get this straight Eurosport does not produce the WRC content in any way. I also dont believe the live stuff in 1999 was Eurosport content either. So this is simply finding a new home for the stock ISC coverage. What is regretable is that less people seem able to access Motors TV.

Let's not mince words - the WRC was BURIED on Eurosport in recent years. They supported the series in as much as they aired it. Nothing more. Now they have another commericial imperative with the IRC - further compromising their commitment to the WRC. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realise that relationship cannot continue.

So I for one am happy that we can at least get a fixed timeslot and (European) events should be aired at a decent hour. Plus the extended coverage and probably additional programming and repeats.

[WRCS14]

Point is continuity. Doesnt matter the fact they dont produce the WRC coverage, they have always given it a slot for us to view. I dont care if this slot is at 11:30pm at night because I remember the way it used to be before Eurosport changed things.

What are you going to do when Motors chop it from their line up due to costs in 2012 etc and believe me this will happen and by that time it will quite possibly be gone from Dave too. Back to the internet watching the spread sheet times change and waiting for the little news updates on WRC.com At that point Eurosport may still be progressing their IRC campaign and they may choose not to bother taking up the slack, I think either way it will be our loss if Eurosport is forced to drop their coverage.

[Simmi]

Point is continuity. Doesnt matter the fact they dont produce the WRC coverage, they have always given it a slot for us to view. I dont care if this slot is at 11:30pm at night because I remember the way it used to be before Eurosport changed things.

What are you going to do when Motors chop it from their line up due to costs in 2012 etc and believe me this will happen and by that time it will quite possibly be gone from Dave too. Back to the internet watching the spread sheet times change and waiting for the little news updates on WRC.com At that point Eurosport may still be progressing their IRC campaign and they may choose not to bother taking up the slack, I think either way it will be our loss if Eurosport is forced to drop their coverage.

But the point is Eurosport don't care about the WRC. They have the IRC now and I'd say they value the WRC about as much as their early morning Teleshopping services. Eurosport did change things and have done a lot. But now they've changed things again - for the worse as far as the WRC is concerned.

I agree Motors isn't a stable platform but it is at least a platform. The coverage solution is all short-term fixes but the WRC is at such a low ebb anything is a result. In 2-4 years that hopefully won't be the case and it will be a stronger product.

I do understand what you are saying. But if you're wife leaves you for another man you don't continue to live with her for the sake of continuity. The WRC finds itself in this same position. I personally believe the IRC will fail in a few years and the WRC will find its way back to Eurosport.

[Tomi]

Here what we get from rally sweden, quite ok?

11.2.2010

21:30 - 22:00 MAX MM-kauden ennakko
22:00 - 22:15 MAX Torstain tapahtumat ja tunnelmat

12.2.2010

07:30 - 08:00 MAX MM-kauden ennakko (2.es)
08:00 - 08:15 MAX Torstain tapahtumat ja tunnelmat (2. es.)
19:30 - 20:00 MAX Tilannekatsaus
22:30 - 23:00 MAX Perjantain ajot ja tunnelmat
22:30 - 22:40 MTV3 RalliExtra
00:35 - 01:05 MTV3 Perjantain tapahtumat ja tunnelmat

13.2.2010

07:30 - 08:00 MAX Perjantain ajot ja tunnelmat (2. es)
19:20 - 19:30 MTV3 RalliExtra
19:30 - 20:00 MAX Tilannekatsaus
23:00 - 23:30 MAX Lauantain ajot ja tunnelmat
00:35 - 01:05 MTV3 Lauantain tapahtumat ja tunnelmat

14.2.2010

07:30 - 08:00 MAX Lauantain ajot ja tunnelmat (2. es)
14:00 - 15:00 MAX Ruotsin rallin päätös-ek LIVE
19:20 - 19:30 MTV3 RalliExtra
19:30 - 20:00 MAX Sunnuntain ajot ja tunnelmat
22:30 - 23:00 MAX Kisan päätöspäivä ja yhteenveto
00:25 - 00:55 MTV3 Kisan päätöspäivä ja kohokohdat

15.2.2010

17:15 - 18:15MAX Koko kisan kooste

[EavesFan09]

- Dave continues for 2010 with entertainment/magazine WRC show on Sundays of events, aimed at casual viewer/general petrolhead

Result! :D

[N.O.T]

-

[JFL]

a little of topic maybe, but what telecompany produced Rally GB in 2003.. I remember that as a very well production with live stages at the final day. Not to forget the awsome fight between Loeb and Solberg, and the wild cheering after the finnishline :)

[Jayjay-Rallye]

Will be there some special stages in live on Motors Tv for the sweden rally?

[Daniel]

I doubt it

[BDunnell]

Let's face it, the audience would be about seven people — despite the fact that, in my view, this is by far the most potentially interesting WRC season for some time.

[AndyRAC]

Let's face it, the audience would be about seven people — despite the fact that, in my view, this is by far the most potentially interesting WRC season for some time.

I think you're wrong - I heard it would be 9, but a few dogs as well....... ;)

I do agree that at the moment, it could potentially be an exciting season. It's just that when the first stage in Sweden starts, we'll be following it by internet/Rally Radio - and not one stage will be live, and seems like a famine compared to the Monte feast.

One final thought about the calendar which was raised in last weeks MNews; there will be 9 clashes between F1/WRC - How is that in the WRC's interest? Thanks very much FiA. 99% of the Motorsport journalists will be at F1, the WRC won't get a look in.

[Motorsportfun]

Closed the (terrible, horrific) "Richards Age", North One Sport is working on some projects about live stages from 2011 in every rally.

(source Italiaracing.net magazine)

[Simmi]

Motorsport News interviewed MotorsTV's head of programming this week and he talks about the direction Motors will take with their new show.

The artcle says Frederic Viger has "innovative ideas" about how to present the rally. The only idea I saw was his complete fetish with onboards. He says "the focus for us will be onboard cameras - so fans can pretend they are driving the cars".

He goes on to say they already have the intro to their first show sorted out. Graphics of the stages, an interview with Seb and then straight into about eight minutes of onboard footage of Loeb. I kid you not that is his plan.

He is directly quoted as saying "On-board is really what people want to see."

The show is for hardcore rally fans but come on! Who is this imaginery mass of people who want on-board footage? I know we have a few real onboard fans on the forum but surely the average fan would like them to use their 45mins to expand on the stories of the day, show the S-WRC etc and not just focus on the leading 4 drivers as has been the case for the past few years.

How about just bog standard shots of the cars going round corners! What ever happened to that? Not cameras mounted in the dirt, not cameras angled against a mirror to see a reflection of a passing car. Don't zoom in on the left rear wheel as the car goes round a corner! Just go back to basics.

With each of these cameras they could have more action shots instead of completely wasting them on some arty bollocks. Is it so difficult to just collect and air raw footage of cars in stages?

I'm going to wait until the first show to make a better judgement but to me Motors are making all the wrong noises. What does anyone else think about the onboards? Was I washing my hair when it got decided they were suddenly the best part of rally coverage?

[bluuford]

Motorsport News interviewed MotorsTV's head of programming this week and he talks about the direction Motors will take with their new show.

The artcle says Frederic Viger has "innovative ideas" about how to present the rally. The only idea I saw was his complete fetish with onboards. He says "the focus for us will be onboard cameras - so fans can pretend they are driving the cars".

He goes on to say they already have the intro to their first show sorted out. Graphics of the stages, an interview with Seb and then straight into about eight minutes of onboard footage of Loeb. I kid you not that is his plan.

He is directly quoted as saying "On-board is really what people want to see."

The show is for hardcore rally fans but come on! Who is this imaginery mass of people who want on-board footage? I know we have a few real onboard fans on the forum but surely the average fan would like them to use their 45mins to expand on the stories of the day, show the S-WRC etc and not just focus on the leading 4 drivers as has been the case for the past few years.

How about just bog standard shots of the cars going round corners! What ever happened to that? Not cameras mounted in the dirt, not cameras angled against a mirror to see a reflection of a passing car. Don't zoom in on the left rear wheel as the car goes round a corner! Just go back to basics.

With each of these cameras they could have more action shots instead of completely wasting them on some arty bollocks. Is it so difficult to just collect and air raw footage of cars in stages?

I'm going to wait until the first show to make a better judgement but to me Motors are making all the wrong noises. What does anyone else think about the onboards? Was I washing my hair when it got decided they were suddenly the best part of rally coverage?

When on-board is a live, then it is a good thing:-) Otherwise, too much is boring for sure.

[Simmi]

When on-board is a live, then it is a good thing:-) Otherwise, too much is boring for sure.

To waste 15-20mins of a 45min show is unforgivable if that's what they think they will do. The remaining time will be enough to churn out the same tired coverage Eurosport were being handed.

I agree when live there is always the surprise element with onboards. Us fans will know whether anything has happened. I was so annoyed I fired off a letter to Motorsport news.

[Langdale Forest]

Will there be no Dave coverage at all?
I hope thy don't waste time with many onboards.

[Larry_Japan]

Will there be no Dave coverage at all?
I hope thy don't waste time with many onboards.

There will be Dave highlights. Not wasting time with crap "celebs" either... interesting chat about it here: http://bit.ly/cmOitO chopper-cam is back!?

[MrJan]

Motorsport News interviewed MotorsTV's head of programming this week and he talks about the direction Motors will take with their new show.

The artcle says Frederic Viger has "innovative ideas" about how to present the rally. The only idea I saw was his complete fetish with onboards. He says "the focus for us will be onboard cameras - so fans can pretend they are driving the cars".

He goes on to say they already have the intro to their first show sorted out. Graphics of the stages, an interview with Seb and then straight into about eight minutes of onboard footage of Loeb. I kid you not that is his plan.

He is directly quoted as saying "On-board is really what people want to see."

The show is for hardcore rally fans but come on! Who is this imaginery mass of people who want on-board footage? I know we have a few real onboard fans on the forum but surely the average fan would like them to use their 45mins to expand on the stories of the day, show the S-WRC etc and not just focus on the leading 4 drivers as has been the case for the past few years.

How about just bog standard shots of the cars going round corners! What ever happened to that? Not cameras mounted in the dirt, not cameras angled against a mirror to see a reflection of a passing car. Don't zoom in on the left rear wheel as the car goes round a corner! Just go back to basics.

With each of these cameras they could have more action shots instead of completely wasting them on some arty bollocks. Is it so difficult to just collect and air raw footage of cars in stages?

I'm going to wait until the first show to make a better judgement but to me Motors are making all the wrong noises. What does anyone else think about the onboards? Was I washing my hair when it got decided they were suddenly the best part of rally coverage?

+1 :up:

I don't mind seeing a bit of onbaord, usually on the high speed stuff it shows how much a driver is trying. The thing is that I watch rallying from outside the car so that's what I want to see on the telly. The worst ones are when they just show the driver, even to a hardcore fan it's prett much just a picture of someone turning a wheel. In truth the movement towards onboard cameras is just an excuse for laziness and cost cutting so that they don't need as many people stood about with cameras. It sucks.

[Sulland]

When on-board is a live, then it is a good thing:-) Otherwise, too much is boring for sure.

Agree, but combined in a split picture with outside pictures where they are available and inboard is ok, but too much inboard is not good. They can also try out different positions on inboard cameras - to see if they can be innovative also here !

Also telemetry can be used to a larger extent, and can be developed. Look to F1 and US motorsport.

[Josti]

He is directly quoted as saying "On-board is really what people want to see."

I wonder what he based this statement on.

I think onboards are interesting, although I enjoy them less with the current crop of cars, but rallying is a sport that is made for exterior shots. Having said that, live onboards are great to watch, but please combine it with more than enough outside footage (something I thought was a bit lacking on the Monte coverage at times).



How about just bog standard shots of the cars going round corners! What ever happened to that? Not cameras mounted in the dirt, not cameras angled against a mirror to see a reflection of a passing car. Don't zoom in on the left rear wheel as the car goes round a corner! Just go back to basics.

I see no harm in experimenting with different angles, but do so with a point! Yes, mirror shots or things related to that are generally terrible, but including the enviroment with the action is quite interesting in my opinion. After all, it's man vs the elements. Still, basic shots of - car going around the corner while camera follows - should be the norm.

[J4MIE]

Agree with the above, they are surely doing it just to keep it cheap for them rather than providing a proper service. Whilst I do watch long onboard clips on occasion, I get bored after a while. Especially with the poor quality that we've had when the cameras are shaking, or over exposed, or shows mainly the back of the seats in the C4, not good.

Having said that I probably only watched 5-6 events coverage last year on Dave so I really don't mind just switching off if the coverage isn't doing it for me.

The coverage just doesn't have the wow factor I used to get from it, I remember watching Finland in 2003 and thought that I just HAD to get there the next year. And I did. Nothing's come close since, apart from the Azores coverage last year.

[Simmi]

Agree, but combined in a split picture with outside pictures where they are available and inboard is ok, but too much inboard is not good. They can also try out different positions on inboard cameras - to see if they can be innovative also here !


I think they have tried every conceivable angle for onboards. Each one seems to be worst than the next. A shot from behind looking at the rear wing/dust etc. It's a fine idea in theory but after about 5 seconds you get bored. Unless you put the camera behind the drivers or on the front splitter everything else seems a bit numb.

I agree with people that onboard is a great live tool - as witnessed with the Meeke off on the Monte - but for a pre-packaged highlights show it just bores me. Maybe if they did away with all their driver-expression cams and footwell cams they might have money to put one more decent camera man out on the stages to capture a bit of proper action.

[Daniel]

I think they have tried every conceivable angle for onboards. Each one seems to be worst than the next. A shot from behind looking at the rear wing/dust etc. It's a fine idea in theory but after about 5 seconds you get bored. Unless you put the camera behind the drivers or on the front splitter everything else seems a bit numb.

I agree with people that onboard is a great live tool - as witnessed with the Meeke off on the Monte - but for a pre-packaged highlights show it just bores me. Maybe if they did away with all their driver-expression cams and footwell cams they might have money to put one more decent camera man out on the stages to capture a bit of proper action.
The worst angle is the one looking back at the driver twiddling the wheel whilst the co-driver reads the notes. I know what that looks like.... I want to know what it looks like to see the road coming towards you at 100 mph!

[Simmi]

There will be Dave highlights. Not wasting time with crap "celebs" either... interesting chat about it here: http://bit.ly/cmOitO chopper-cam is back!?

Thanks for this. Good to hear Neil's thoughts on it all. He is a genuine rally fan at the end of the day. It remains to be seen how much North One will actually improve the coverage. The Heli-Cam running on every round is HUGE for coverage and is essential IMO.

It just seems like for the past few years the ISC hasn't really taken any pride in their coverage. Eurosport upping the ante might hopefully force them into this. And more of a budget is great news if true. It's just a shame MotorsTV don't seem to have a clue.

[Simmi]

The worst angle is the one looking back at the driver twiddling the wheel whilst the co-driver reads the notes. I know what that looks like.... I want to know what it looks like to see the road coming towards you at 100 mph!

It's incredible they still keep using this shot. They have got into such a lazy routinized editing process that it goes in no matter what.

As for in-stage cameras they could also do other things like instead of using two cameras to cover a stage start they could move one or both of these into the stage to get some action shots. Everything they do should add up to awe-inspiring not yawn-inspiring.

[AndyRAC]

It's incredible they still keep using this shot. They have got into such a lazy routinized editing process that it goes in no matter what.

As for in-stage cameras they could also do other things like instead of using two cameras to cover a stage start they could move one or both of these into the stage to get some action shots. Everything they do should add up to awe-inspiring not yawn-inspiring.

The thing that baffles me is that coverage was better 10 years ago. Remember the old BBC highlights?? They were miles ahead of what North One/ISC have been doing recently. Is Paul King still doing the voice-overs? Not more of the faux Live commentary....
As regard the in car cameras, sometimes they have them so low you can't see much out of the windscreen, so there are no use at all.

[Motorsportfun]

Looks like someone is forgetting that North One is in fully power since January 1, 2010. Just a month.

What do u want in a couple of days? Let them work... I know from very close ppl to North One Sports that they're already working on live stages for 2011, but most probably the latest rounds of this year's WRC (as "tests").

;) :s mokin:

[Motorsportfun]

See that nobody says I'm wrong... thats a good thing. means they're working in the right direction. :D

[AndyRAC]

Looks like someone is forgetting that North One is in fully power since January 1, 2010. Just a month.

What do u want in a couple of days? Let them work... I know from very close ppl to North One Sports that they're already working on live stages for 2011, but most probably the latest rounds of this year's WRC (as "tests").

;) :s mokin:

North One is the new name for ISC - who have been filming the coverage for years - they haven't been doing a good job. Time to pull their collective fingers out.

[Daniel]

See that nobody says I'm wrong... thats a good thing. means they're working in the right direction. :D
Np, it just says that the FIA and ISC/North One have run the series into the ground so much that people don't care anymore.

[Motorsportfun]

ISC (ok, let's call North One Sport) has been owned by a terrible person, aka Dave Richards. He tried to make rallying as exclusive as F1. He almost destroyed the sport. Now there is a totally different management by North One Television.

Why is that positive? Easy: they have a very different approach.

new videogame, HD television production, new website, talks with manufacturers, new tv deals. All under the new management... what did the Brit? Nothing, it put cr*p into the series, with his friend Gary Connelly... that's what Richards did!

A welcome, a very warm welcome to North One!

[Daniel]

ISC (ok, let's call North One Sport) has been owned by a terrible person, aka Dave Richards. He tried to make rallying as exclusive as F1. He almost destroyed the sport. Now there is a totally different management by North One Television.

Why is that positive? Easy: they have a very different approach.

new videogame, HD television production, new website, talks with manufacturers, new tv deals. All under the new management... what did the Brit? Nothing, it put cr*p into the series, with his friend Gary Connelly... that's what Richards did!

A welcome, a very warm welcome to North One!
Wow they really did a number on you :) The coverage will stay poor.

[MrJan]

Am I the only one not overly bothered by live stages? On a Friday it's pointless because I have a job and on the weekend I'm either watching football or not too happy to drop everything I'm doing. Highlights in the evening work much better IMO and I have a real problem that the live footage usually comes at the cost of a decent highlights package.

I didn't even mind watching Rally GB on BBC iPlayer on the Tuesday after the event, the coverage pissed all over the stuff that we get with Dave and Paul King. Bring back Mark James :D

[Tomi]

Im not worried either, we have our own reporters present, and the most interesting events for me, Sweden and Finland has a very good and informative rallyradio.

[Daniel]

Am I the only one not overly bothered by live stages? On a Friday it's pointless because I have a job and on the weekend I'm either watching football or not too happy to drop everything I'm doing. Highlights in the evening work much better IMO and I have a real problem that the live footage usually comes at the cost of a decent highlights package.

I didn't even mind watching Rally GB on BBC iPlayer on the Tuesday after the event, the coverage pissed all over the stuff that we get with Dave and Paul King. Bring back Mark James :D
Well I liked the live Monte stages. I don't care if the drivers perhaps aren't WRC material or if the cars are slower, the sense of speed you got in the dark with GOOD camera placement was excellent.

[Motorsportfun]

Wow they really did a number on you :) The coverage will stay poor.

Are u Harry Potter to know what will NOS do in 2 years time? :laugh: :rotflmao:

[Daniel]

Are u Harry Potter to know what will NOS do in 2 years time? :laugh: :rotflmao:
How long have North One/ISC had the coverage for? If they didn't bother back then they're not going to bother now.

[MrJan]

I thought North One had been doing it since it was on Channel 4 in the UK? Certainly there logo was about when it was on ITV.

[AndyRAC]

I thought North One had been doing it since it was on Channel 4 in the UK? Certainly there logo was about when it was on ITV.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right!
So now they've decided they're going to ramp up the coverage. Well look at old BBC/BHP productions/filming. That's how to do it.

[Simmi]

ISC (ok, let's call North One Sport) has been owned by a terrible person, aka Dave Richards. He tried to make rallying as exclusive as F1. He almost destroyed the sport. Now there is a totally different management by North One Television.

Why is that positive? Easy: they have a very different approach.

new videogame, HD television production, new website, talks with manufacturers, new tv deals. All under the new management... what did the Brit? Nothing, it put cr*p into the series, with his friend Gary Connelly... that's what Richards did!

A welcome, a very warm welcome to North One!

Hilariously misguided.

[Motorsportfun]

Definitely not. I'm just informed (it's my job).

[MrJan]

Definitely not. I'm just informed (it's my job).

Are you North One's press officer?

[Motorsportfun]

No, I'm not. Just work in the media.

[Daniel]

No, I'm not. Just work in the media.
I "worked" in the WRC media too :) Means nothing.

[Tomi]

I "worked" in the WRC media too :) Means nothing.

but it sounds very important.

[GigiGalliNo1]

i'm just watching the IRC Monte Carlo round up (1/2) hour show from Euro Sport HD and unfortunately think the WRC will have an issue keeping up with the quality of the IRC episode. They've done a great job with it and even though they have immensely become better than the last two years it's only going to get better! So wonder what the WRC will bring to our TV sets, and online.... I will next time watch the LIVE stuff on tv or get it off of the interweb.

Good luck WRC!

[lcd]

The WRC TV coverage lisence moved In Greece too...
From the National Greek Network (EΡT) moved to a private Channel (ΣΚΑΙ TV)
and everyone hopes for some more and better tv promotion of the sport...
( At least compared to the previous state of 5 minutes reports, after each day! :mad: )

[Daniel]

but it sounds very important.
yes tomi :) Anyone can work in the WRC media tbh.

[Tomi]

yes tomi :) Anyone can work in the WRC media tbh.

or pretend to, just make a website and pretend you are a media person, lol

[AndyRAC]

yes tomi :) Anyone can work in the WRC media tbh.

Is that still true? ISC/North One are meant to be particularly choosey about who signs on as media. In fact there was a good piece by Martin Holmes at the end of last year in 'gpweek'.

[Daniel]

Is that still true? ISC/North One are meant to be particularly choosey about who signs on as media. In fact there was a good piece by Martin Holmes at the end of last year in 'gpweek'.
What I mean is any tool can set up a blog or a site which aggregates all the WRC news and pretend that they're a media outlet.

Martin Holmes of course doesn't do this and writes his own pieces.

[Simmi]

I agree when live there is always the surprise element with onboards. Us fans will know whether anything has happened. I was so annoyed I fired off a letter to Motorsport news.

I just realised that I actually got the 'Letter of the Week' for my rant about the MotorsTV plans. It's in last week's Motorsport News but it was good to see they gave it priority because it shows they don't think MotorsTV has the right idea either - even if they couldn't say it in their original article.

[noel157]

What I mean is any tool can set up a blog or a site which aggregates all the WRC news and pretend that they're a media outlet.

Martin Holmes of course doesn't do this and writes his own pieces.

Too true Daniel although they can be handy sometimes if you don't take them too seriously. There's several sites that basically collate their info from all the rally forums and motorsport sites around Europe. Couple of years ago I "invented" a press release, based on the truth of course, and posted it on a forum, saw it in 2 of these particular sites, simply copied and pasted.
But I guess it's difficult to start a rally news site without connections or media credibility.

[Motorsportfun]

But I guess it's difficult to start a rally news site without connections or media credibility.

Thats the big point. You need some connections with teams and/or drivers to do a good job, and so a good rally site. Everyone's able to do journalism from a desktop, with press releases and news published previously in other medias.

[cassius]

looks like it is on Dave still - it is on Motors TV and looks liek its on Youtbe too

[Simmi]

Right then lets see what they have put together for Motors.

First thing is no Paul King.

[Simmi]

Bit of an incoherent mess so far. Amateurish voice over. They are going to have to rethink their onboards approach if all the cameras are filming is the back section of the roll cage with a tiny slit view out of the windscreen.

On the upside there is a helicopter in the air. Lets see how much they show the proper footage.

[manta400]

agree simmi, imo Paul king was better no? certainly beats neil cole showing Petter how to make soup eh? needs mot footage down the field, petter, henning etc

[RS]

They left Andersson out of the end-of-day top 10.

No Paul King histeronics, but the commentator didn't sound all that interested to be honest.

I was surpised they didn't show the other classes (sWRC, jWRC) given that the programme is that long.

Good to see a few more interviews than normal but in general the programme as a bit boring (too long maybe?)

I don't really like onboards from the current World Rally Cars. They are nice on the fast sections but in the twisty bits they just nod and twitch everywhere.

[Simmi]

I'd just like to congratulate MotorsTV on making the worst rally coverage I have ever seen. That physically hurt me to watch. An hour where the main camera angle used was a reverse onboard shot showing the driver. Onboards are a terrible idea but when you couple that with the shocking camera placement and quality you are just left with a pathetic mess. They barely showed any exterior shots. They barely showed any of the field. They had double the airtime but actually managed to show less of the drivers. It took them 35mins to show any footage of Petter for example. Gronholm featured twice in the hour. Zero mention of the SWRC.

The editing has got worse than before. That was an incredibly difficult thing to achieve but somehow they managed it. The commentary was unclear and fairly uninformative. It was difficult to even work out what was going on at times. Very messy in all areas. The decision-making was terrible.

So in summary it missed the point so badly it's untrue. As an intro to the season it was pathetic. It left me in utter disbelief. To take some of the worst monotonous coverage in all of sports and then make it TWICE as bad is really some feat. Motors has one legit programme on its books and it seems intent on sucking the life, drama and story out of it. Unbelievable.

[RJM]

I have to agree with simmi, it wasn't good. Henning wasn't even mentioned, as well as the other classes and the commentator was really boring to listen too, barely any shots of the cars from outside...

[urabus-denoS2000]

I'd just like to congratulate MotorsTV on making the worst rally coverage I have ever seen. That physically hurt me to watch. An hour where the main camera angle used was a reverse onboard shot showing the driver. Onboards are a terrible idea but when you couple that with the shocking camera placement and quality you are just left with a pathetic mess. They barely showed any exterior shots. They barely showed any of the field. They had double the airtime but actually managed to show less of the drivers. It took them 35mins to show any footage of Petter for example. Gronholm featured twice in the hour. Zero mention of the SWRC.

The editing has got worse than before. That was an incredibly difficult thing to achieve but somehow they managed it. The commentary was unclear and fairly uninformative. It was difficult to even work out what was going on at times. Very messy in all areas. The decision-making was terrible.

So in summary it missed the point so badly it's untrue. As an intro to the season it was pathetic. It left me in utter disbelief. To take some of the worst monotonous coverage in all of sports and then make it TWICE as bad is really some feat. Motors has one legit programme on its books and it seems intent on sucking the life, drama and story out of it. Unbelievable.


Agree 100%.

The worst rally coverage I have seen. Just pathetic

[WRCfan]

What the heck is wrong with this commentator!?
He stutters, misses words then pauses and has to think. About as enjoyable as listening to a cat stuck in a food blender.

Most disappointing if I have to listen to this utter dribble for the whole championship!


WE DEMAND A NEW COMMENTATOR!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Watching the first 7 minutes of the new WRC on Motors TV, change the logo to transparent guys! Why do they need a camera man, jumping around and running when the cars are parked at the beginning of the stage?! Should he be IN the stage rather then just having ONE guy on ONE corner? And fair enough always good to have one at the end of the stage....

A bit too long with Loeb at the end of the stage when he was driving to stop, we don't need to see that, just cut to the interview. Easy.

Helicopter would be good to see more of.... but still only 7mins into the 47 mins of the show...

Commentator.... UGH

Come on! Get the guy from the IRC last year who was making it all up on the spot when it was LIVE! not this young guy who can't even talk properly!

[MJW]

What absolute e that programme was last night!! The new low in WRC broadcasts. Lets hope NOS come on this forum, and have media type meetings next week and put it right.
In car camera angles were pathetic, who wants to see the rear door / rear wing view of a rallycar? Too much camera on the crew's faces shots (that would have been OK for Ramona and Miraiam). Commentator was useless. I got the impression it was even more 4 works drivers, plus Kimi. We got coverage of Matt W, but not the second nominated Stobart driver. Token coverage of Marcus. When you think about the massive effort Petter made to raise sponsors, and Henning for that matter, they got minimal in Petter's case, and I suspect because of the incident with Matt, and nothing of Henning. The absolute injustice was not even a mention, let alone coverage of drive of the day PG!
If Kris Nissen and the VW board were watching, I suspect they will sanction a new Dakar car, and if Monte organisers and IRC wwere watching I guess they were laughing all the way.

[GigiGalliNo1]

IRC will be laughing for the rest of the year with Joy!

[whereschris]

Have to say it was pretty bad. The on-boards from the rear of the car were very difficult to watch. The commentary was very bitty - odd pauses, stopped in mid sentence etc...

The main thing I noticed was that the picture quality is very poor. I have been used to watching it on Eurosport HD (which I got specially for the rallying :( ) which has been great so this is a real down turn.

For a sport trying to raise it's profile this seems to be a backward step and the presentation makes the sport look amateur.

However, on the up side there are plenty of viewings of the coverage repeated throughout the day and so far it has been on time....

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's actually not a step backwards... it's NEVER been this BAD!

[HaCo]

What a crappy coverage:
- if you show on-board, please on the roof of the car where you can see some scenery. I think the cars will get a lot of livery inside, because...
- ...where are the cameras next to the road? Almost nothing, you can't compare passages of two cars on the same spot anymore :( If you do live coverage, you can understand why they use a lot of on-boards.
This is getting poorer and poorer :(

Hope they improve a lot, but what is there to improve if they are only four good cars in a rally?

Why don't they show any other championship, to bring some variation in 45mins!

[Simmi]

I think it should just be cleared up. This is actually not North One's fault in a sense. I believe there will have actually been the same amount or possibly more good exterior footage from day one that their TV people shot. It was just not used.

This was a case of Motors being so ass-backwards that they figured people wanted to see a bunch of monotonous poor-quality onboard instead of any real action. They suceeded in making the coverage totally boring. It was like they were briefed to try and convey the WRC without actually showing any cars. It was almost like they were taking the piss out of us fans.

North One should step in. I doubt they will. I doubt anyone from there reads the forum - which is they had any shred of sense they would.

Does anyone have any contact details for Motors? I wouldn't mind firing off an email headed WTF!!!!!!!!!!! Frederic Viguer should hang his head in shame.

[HaCo]

MotorsTV has a forum :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Joining and complaining!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Done: http://www.motorstv.com/forums/car/wrc/wrc-on-motors-tv-2010

Come on guys, write some more of your 'positive' thoughts...!

[Simmi]

I wonder if they read their own forum? They can't have received any positive feedback from that pathetic effort.

[Sulland]

They have as people have written here.

I was not too impressed yesterday, but I will watch tonight as well and do my notes.

Made a thread for this on their forum, so lets hope they are open for well meant suggestions !
Register and Put your comments in here:
http://www.motorstv.com/forums/car/wrc/top-5-short-term-issues-mtv-could-improve-in-their-wrc-coverage

[AndyRAC]

I've only seen bits, but the in car cameras are a waste if you can only see a small bit outside of the windscreen, and as for looking back at the driver. Why?? It just doesn't do any good for the sport, just give the impression of 'amateur hour'. Honestly, look at the old BBC coverage from 10 years ago, it waa far better.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Gotta love some comments!

http://www.motorstv.com/forums/car/wrc/wrc-on-motors-tv-2010

[N.O.T]

its good they have a forum though....i think they will improve.

[curry]

This is actually not North One's fault in a sense.

Didn't they give Motors the broadcast rights?

[curry]

I got to the chance being in Australia to watch the local coverage which is the same as last years Eurosports coverage (not sure who the production team is) and I compared it to the Motors coverage. Night and day is the answer when comparing.

Yes Motors are producing an extra 23 minutes coverage (adds excluded) but its seems to me that all this extra is just onboards, which is useless on the Citroen's. The coverage just seemed about cars driving through the forest; forgive my ignorance but weren't they in a race and if so its the broadcasters duty to explain the race situation as it unfolds not just show the top 4 cars! Overall it was a very disjointed coverage that wasn't helped by a very average commentator.

As a comparison, the 'old coverage team' opened day 1 with highlights from the Karlstad super special and explained what happened to Petter. This was done by Motors in a quick one line sentence with no pictures.

I would have no idea how someone that doesn't have any rally knowledge could possibly follow the rally with this coverage. If I was North One I would be furious as I can't see how Motors are doing anything in promoting the WRC to new viewers.

[WRCfan]

The commentator was calling Hirvonen, Latvala! That is an inexcusable blunder. Sort it out!

[Sulland]

Who is the commentator, and what rally background does he have ?

What material do they get from North One Sport to work with ?
Have anyone seen coverage from others that are sending WRC this year, and if so are they any different ?

[HaCo]

Does anyone have access to this page?
http://www.motorstv.com/live/live-sweden-rally-day-4

[Larry_Japan]

North One edit the Motors TV show from the same pool of footage as the main international/old Eurosport footage BUT they have massively reduced rights for what they can show, probly for money reasons, so it is largely a specialist onboards-based show. The show is chopped together, sent to Motors TV HQ & voiced from there, quickly, in a bunch of different languages.
The Dave show at 6pm tonight better be good...!

[tmx]

I felt bad for criticizing Paul King after seeing how bad this new announcer is, but I don't care really, I've only watched 4 wrc rallies coverage last year. Rather than asking for all opinions, MotorsTV only want short terms, that's just seem they only want to improve things for their own interest and not the fans interest.

I've saw the Dave pre-Sweden coverage and I have to admit its very entertaining and one of the better WRC coverage I've seen in a very long time. Someone who never seen rally before could enjoy it. Of course, they had time over the winters and plenty of materials to fine tune it, I don't expect the Sweden review will be as good and probably feature some goofy celebrity. However, it seem Eurosport is learning to get it right, if they can continue to improve for the next one, review of Sweden, then I would definitely watch more Dave this season

[Simmi]

North One edit the Motors TV show from the same pool of footage as the main international/old Eurosport footage BUT they have massively reduced rights for what they can show, probly for money reasons, so it is largely a specialist onboards-based show. The show is chopped together, sent to Motors TV HQ & voiced from there, quickly, in a bunch of different languages.
The Dave show at 6pm tonight better be good...!

I had wondered whether they were limited to using C-Grade footage. Basically all the stuff that this time last year would have ended up on the cutting room floor. This begs the question - if it is the case - why are they being limited? What is the reason for reduced rights? If it is because Motors cant afford it then that is INSANE. The one channel that is prepared to show daily highlights but North One aren't prepared to give them the full package. That is pathetic. It's their business coming before the WRC. And it is us fans that lose out.

I'm watching it back now and for the first stage of the day they literally showed 4 exterior shots. It's boring and unwatchable in this format. It takes all the spectacle of rallying away. They may as well not have bothered.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm actually looking forward to the Dave show. Motors are making them look like the saviors of the WRC.

[Simmi]

Didn't they give Motors the broadcast rights?

Yeah they did do. The more I think about it and the more info that becomes clear - the more I blame North One.

So I retract that statement.

[Motorsportfun]

90 minutes of highlights on RaiSport+ (Italian tv) at 16:30 CET

http://www.rai.tv/dl/RaiTV/homeTv.html

Just click on the RaiSport+ logo and watch it free! :D

[Barreis]

:)

[Allyc85]

Glad to read im not the only one whos not happy with the coverage.

I dont mind the camera work but the commentator is so boring and dosnt seem to have much knowledge and it feels like he needs a rally expert next to him to add some feedback.

Will be watching Daves coverage tonight, hopefully that has improved alot!

[AndyRAC]

Glad to read im not the only one whos not happy with the coverage.

I dont mind the camera work but the commentator is so boring and dosnt seem to have much knowledge and it feels like he needs a rally expert next to him to add some feedback.

Will be watching Daves coverage tonight, hopefully that has improved alot!

Dave only get their coverage off North One - so it won't be much different. I think the time has come to sort the in car cameras - they're just too far back. It hasn't always been like this.

[Barreis]

That's new onboard camera's they were talking about..

[Viridian Black]

90 minutes of highlights on RaiSport+ (Italian tv) at 16:30 CET

http://www.rai.tv/dl/RaiTV/homeTv.html

Just click on the RaiSport+ logo and watch it free! :D

only if ur Italian :(

[Daniel]

I just watched the first 20 minutes of Friday nights coverage and tbh it was far better than the Dave/ISC crapola that we've had before though not as good as the IRC monte coverage.

[Simmi]

I just watched the first 20 minutes of Friday nights coverage and tbh it was far better than the Dave/ISC crapola that we've had before though not as good as the IRC monte coverage.

Don't worry it will get worse. To the point where you actually lose interest in what is going on.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I got to the chance being in Australia to watch the local coverage which is the same as last years Eurosports coverage (not sure who the production team is) and I compared it to the Motors coverage. Night and day is the answer when comparing.

Yes Motors are producing an extra 23 minutes coverage (adds excluded) but its seems to me that all this extra is just onboards, which is useless on the Citroen's. The coverage just seemed about cars driving through the forest; forgive my ignorance but weren't they in a race and if so its the broadcasters duty to explain the race situation as it unfolds not just show the top 4 cars! Overall it was a very disjointed coverage that wasn't helped by a very average commentator.

As a comparison, the 'old coverage team' opened day 1 with highlights from the Karlstad super special and explained what happened to Petter. This was done by Motors in a quick one line sentence with no pictures.

I would have no idea how someone that doesn't have any rally knowledge could possibly follow the rally with this coverage. If I was North One I would be furious as I can't see how Motors are doing anything in promoting the WRC to new viewers.

Was ONE doing the commentary? Australians or what was it?

[Motorsportfun]

only if ur Italian :(

Geoblocking? :(

[6789]

Was ONE doing the commentary? Australians or what was it?
I have only seen the Shakedown preview for Sweden on ONE, but the commentary was done by the same guy who did it on Eurosport last year.. Its was a really good show, ill watch tonight and see how it goes :)

[curry]

Was ONE doing the commentary? Australians or what was it?
It's the old Eurosport coverage of last year for the whole weekend.

[tech3]

How was the coverage on Dave? I decided to stay up and watch the Motors tv coverage and carefully avoided any results of the rally.

[cali]

Saw sunday's highlights from Motors today. Cannot understand the amount of complainings here, does so many like to whine here?

I think it was far more better than what we had last year and Yes, I do like more incars. Last year we had more talking and less driving, I saw the opposite from Motors today. Lots of driving footage and not so much meaningless chit-chat. Ofcourse, there is still a lot to improve, but I quite liked what i saw.
Wish they could show more SWRC and PWRC guys as well.

[JFL]

I liked the show too. :) I think they said that PWRC and SWRC will be showed in a later show . . .

[cali]

I liked the show too. :) I think they said that PWRC and SWRC will be showed in a later show . . .

Good :) , I will stay tuned for PWRC and SWRC as well then. Specially I liked the S2000 show in Sweden, very nice cars and nice driving by top guys and would very much like to see some action footage.

[curry]

Saw sunday's highlights from Motors today. Cannot understand the amount of complainings here, does so many like to whine here?

Sunday's show was much better in that they actually spent time on people outside the top four other than Marcus and Kimi. Still think the show needs a lot of work especially repositioning some on the in car cams if they are going to use them extensively. The in car cam on the Citroen is next to useless under braking due to the downwards pitch moment.

[cali]

Sunday's show was much better in that they actually spent time on people outside the top four other than Marcus and Kimi. Still think the show needs a lot of work especially repositioning some on the in car cams if they are going to use them extensively. The in car cam on the Citroen is next to useless under braking due to the downwards pitch moment.

Agree most of your point written, but still I can no understand the amount of whining here. Seems like everything new is BAD.
A bit more exterior shots would be nice as well, but I did not saw a single cameraman at the stages, only exception was Colin's crest. Ofcourse there is still a lot to improve, but I liked what I saw and I like the idea that Motors does not stick to the "old and safe" option, but is willing to change things. Commentator has to improve as well, but he wasn't that bad.

[tintin]

Who is the commentator, and what rally background does he have ?


He is Simon Hill, and he's been Eurosport's IRC commentator since halfway through 2007.



What material do they get from North One Sport to work with ?


They get five minutes of "news" footage, some interviews and a big pile of onboards.

[fastboy]

Have just got back from spectating on the rally,and having spent the last 3 hours watching the show i think it is a massive improvement on previous years.A few minor changes and and the show will be as good as you can get on showing rallying highlights.
The onboards are brilliant and as long as they keep mixing up the drivers they show, i am more than happy.

[Sulland]

It is very impressive the speed they are turning our Lessons Identified into their Lessons Learned from our inputs into their Forum !
http://www.motorstv.com/forums/car/wrc

This is a sign that they are willing to learn and improve, and that is rare in the TV world today !

Important to give cred where needed, and not only criticize !

If Motors TV can help North One Sport improve, by giving in their wishes and requirements this can get very good !

[Simmi]

Nice to see some people enjoyed it. I'm glad some did, but they obviously like their rally coverage to be around 25% exterior footage.

Someone said they moved away from the 'safe' format of previous years. Are you kidding me. So now is showing exterior action shots of cars and sponsors safe? To me all they have done is extend the awful parts of previous years coverage.

Obviously some people like to view their 3 days of rally action from the perspective of someone inside a mail box in the back of a rally car. It's nice those five people have a show they can be proud of.

[Daniel]

Nice to see some people enjoyed it. I'm glad some did, but they obviously like their rally coverage to be around 25% exterior footage.

Someone said they moved away from the 'safe' format of previous years. Are you kidding me. So now is showing exterior action shots of cars and sponsors safe? To me all they have done is extend the awful parts of previous years coverage.

Obviously some people like to view their 3 days of rally action from the perspective of someone inside a mail box in the back of a rally car. It's nice those five people have a show they can be proud of.
Get a life. It was still better than the ISC **** that's been dished up over recent years.

[Simmi]

Get a life. It was still better than the ISC **** that's been dished up over recent years.

Difference of opinion. That's fine.

It was all ISC ****. Still is. Just packaged in various different forms. Coverage is hugely important so it frustrates me. Imagine theoretically if someone from VW was watching that Motors coverage. You dont get in to rallying so people can see the quality of your interiors. We've seen onboards work live. This aint live. What will a British sponsor like Stobart think? What does any sponsor get out of that? Their brands are receiving 60% less coverage.

An hour long show each leg should be a chance to expand on coverage rather than strip it down and pad it out with dregs. I see it as a massive wasted opportunity - but hopefully they can improve. Hopefully North One can/will throw them a bone and help.


And as for getting a life. I can think of thirty-two and a half thousand reasons why you're in no position. I respect your opinion, so let's leave it at that.

[club_soda]

Thank god for the MotorsTV switch, I'm already liking the new commentator and his ability to stay silent for several minutes to just enjoy the onboards. :) There were a couple nice exterior shots too, I hope there will be more exterior footage but as it is now I like it tons more than the awful, monotonous and completely boring Eurosport coverage before.

Keep it up MotorsTV, I see the WRC coverage going back to it's glory days. Sad to see this year is the last year of the big turbo cars. I thought there would be more s2000 coverage since these cars will take over in 2011 but I have seen none yet, hopefully in the future.

[curry]

So now is showing exterior action shots of cars and sponsors safe?

That's actually something I hadn't thought of, but yes there was a lot less exterior shots including sponsors banners in the background. Could be interesting if it has an affect on sponsorship revenue in the long term.

[manta400]

Thank god for the MotorsTV switch, I'm already liking the new commentator and his ability to stay silent for several minutes to just enjoy the onboards. :) There were a couple nice exterior shots too, I hope there will be more exterior footage but as it is now I like it tons more than the awful, monotonous and completely boring Eurosport coverage before.

Keep it up MotorsTV, I see the WRC coverage going back to it's glory days. Sad to see this year is the last year of the big turbo cars. I thought there would be more s2000 coverage since these cars will take over in 2011 but I have seen none yet, hopefully in the future.

just watching RPM on UTV northern ireland, i have to say they give a broad aspect to all classes and to listen to this WRC program it makes Motors Tv look rubbish, bring back Jon Desborough and Robbie Head

[WRCfan]

They have a mammoth task ahead of them to fix the problem. Although the signs that they are wanting to listen to sort it out is promising.

Hope they do so.

Will wait until Mexico!

[J4MIE]

Just watched the motors coverage earlier this evening and sorry to say but I was bored watching it so switched off, too much incar with crap cameras that are either underexposed or Latvalas was shaking. And on day two they said "and now it will be really good cos it's getting dark... now lets look at Kimi here ...actually it's stage 10 from earlier in the day" :s

Watched Dave coverage to compare and think it's much better. However again this year I don't think I'll make a particular effort to watch any of it.

[RS]

Anyone know when the sWRC programme will be on Dave or Motors?

I thought Dave would have a WRC programme 6pm every Sunday like before, but not today...

[Larry_Japan]

Anyone know when the sWRC programme will be on Dave or Motors?

I thought Dave would have a WRC programme 6pm every Sunday like before, but not today...

... I think there will be an hour-long Review/Preview show on Dave the Sunday before each WRC event covering the previous s/p/jWRC, which means this Sunday (28th) at 4pm...

[tolis]

Anyone know when the sWRC programme will be on Dave or Motors?

I thought Dave would have a WRC programme 6pm every Sunday like before, but not today...
Motors TV will broadcast a programme(Rally World) about the other categories of the WRC, this Sunday...
http://www.motorstv.com/tv-guide?d=2010-02-28&h=4

[RICARDO75]

central European Time

Sunday - 28 Feb
20:30 - Rally World Pwrc & Swrc Rally Sweden

tuesday - 2 Mar
18:45 - Rally World Pwrc & Swrc Rally Sweden
23:10 - Rally World Pwrc & Swrc Rally Sweden

wednesday - 3 Mar
20:35 - Rally World Pwrc & Swrc Rally Sweden

[Langdale Forest]

The other classes of the WRC deserves better than to be shown on a non-freeview channel.

[tolis]

I watched the Rally World programme in ONE HD... The Rally World programme covered Rally Sweden WRC Review (5 min.), Rally Arctic Lapland (2 min), Qatar International Rally (2 min.), a preview of p-j-swrc (3 min.) and a 12 min coverage of the SWRC from Sweden...They said that the next episode will be after Rally Mexico...So, no PWRC coverage???

[Langdale Forest]

What other channel is called ONE, is it a Greek channel?

[tolis]

No, it's an Australian channel that shows WRC... ;)

[rv65]

I watched the American coverage on HDTheater and they did mention the S2000 cars but not the P-WRC.

[whereschris]

Does anyone know when the Mexico shakedown is being shown? On the Motors TV website it says Wed 4th 22.20 but when I check the Sky planner it's not listed. The planner says British Historic rally and I seem to remember that this was the case when Sweden was about to start...

Any Ideas?

[tintin]

Does anyone know when the Mexico shakedown is being shown? On the Motors TV website it says Wed 4th 22.20 but when I check the Sky planner it's not listed. The planner says British Historic rally and I seem to remember that this was the case when Sweden was about to start...

Any Ideas?

The 4th is actually a Thursday.

Motors TV isn't allowed to show Shakedown in the UK, only in other parts of Europe - you have obviously been looking at the "TV Guide" page of their site, rather than the "TV Guide UK" page.

...and the rest of Europe will see it at 10.20pm on Thursday.

[whereschris]

right ok. what a shame!

Cheers

[pavlos_a]

Does anyone know when the Mexico shakedown is being shown? On the Motors TV website it says Wed 4th 22.20 but when I check the Sky planner it's not listed. The planner says British Historic rally and I seem to remember that this was the case when Sweden was about to start...

Any Ideas?

You can watch it online here

http://racing.skai.gr/default.asp?pid=27

[Salist]

You can watch it online here

http://racing.skai.gr/default.asp?pid=27

Thanks Pavlos!!!!

[whereschris]

What's going on?!!! I'm just watching the coverage from this morning and it sounds like the commentator is on the phone - you can barely hear him. Is it just my recording?

[Viridian Black]

Yup they sent that horrible audio out for million to hear.............

[curry]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse!

[whereschris]

Just watched a later repeat and they have the fixed the audio - not the commentary though!

[WRCfan]

There is only one word suitable to describe their footage and that is "bulls**t."

I used to look forward to watching each rally. I will just read the results on the net from now on I think. More exciting that way.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Day 2 slightly better... but then it couldn't get any worse ...

Good interview the head of Petter Solberg WRT :)

[RallyCat909]

I joined that forum and posted this:


I only joined this forum because of the horrible coverage I saw. I have been watching WRC since about 2000 when the coverage became available on the internet because as a US rally fan, its what you had to do. It's essentially still what I have to do. If the coverage was available through the proper channels, then I would gladly be a part of that. But media in the 21st century still tries to hold onto, (or is fumbling around trying to figure it out perhaps), with 20th century business models. What a shame. All that suffers is the culture that you aspired to make your income from as they are left confused and misinformed, or just uninformed at the end of the day. So gossip ensues on message board forums, and no one has any better idea of what the big picture is.

Do yourself a favor and fork out whatever money you have to spend on

A) A knowledgble camera crew and photography director

It is always important for the viewer to want to be a part of the images onscreen when watching a sporting event. It instills the passion and comraderie that makes any sport a success. If they want to be there, surely thy will watch again and again. Additionally rallysport is probably among the most photogenic sporting events on the planet. A simple combination of the sensiblities of John Frankenheimer and Ansel Adams would make the footage a sheer joy to witness.

B) A good footage editor

No great movie has ever gotten that way without someone to assemble the footage in the cutting room at the end of the day. Every great director from Steven Spielberg to John Huston knew it was a good idea to make the editor your best friend. Since we are talking about a visual medium here, the principles remain the same. If you have the best shots from a stage, the most dynamic footage of a jump, crash, crowd reaction, etc, no of it will matter of the timing of each of those moments is not gracefully assembled into a story that the viewing audience can identify with, want to be a part or, or be pulled into.

C) A commentator

Without a voice to interpret what is onscreen in a clear, concise, well informed commentary, the viewing audience will be not likely to return to what they are watching whether the material is downloaded, streaming, or aired. More importantly, the commentator is looked upon as the icon to which the fan refers to other would-be fans for interpretation, news, insight, etc. They should be as identifiable not only to the viewing audience, but perhaps even moreso to the drivers, crews, team principals etc.

F1 had Murray Walker, American baseball had Ernie Harwell, boxing had Reg Gutteridge. At one point the WRC had Mark James and Jeremy Hart. Where are they now? THey had an obvious passion for the sport, it has been rather lacking in the past 5 years or more.


The WRC is an opportunity. It's like no other sport on the planet. From rally to rally you have the opportunity to immerse your audience in the local culture where each rally takes place. You have some of the most robust street legal machinery on public roads blasting around the world in the most diverse conditions any sport has to offer. You have multiple cultures working together to make a massive event possible, and in this very troubled world, that should be capitalized on.

What was the line from a James Bond movie? ".....and 007......try not to muck it up again."

[GigiGalliNo1]

Lucky I'm just about to watch Dave's coverage with Paul King soon.... yipee!

Or in other words... not the MotorsTV version. :)

[WRCfan]

They claimed they wanted to learn from their Sweden mistake although the outdoor coverage has increased very slightly it seems they learned nothing.

A string of onboard shots does not equal rallying coverage. I'm sorry but they have made very little progress. By the time the season is out the coverage might be slightly bearable at this rate.

[Daniel]

I don't get this..... the Motors TV coverage isn't the best but the ISC coverage is hardly miles better.

[GigiGalliNo1]

In my opinion - I'd rather watch something of Quality ie ISC's coverage 24mins, than an hour or 43mins of MotorsTV's coverage that I only watched 7 mins of of Sweden, unbearable and then read the not so positive feedback re coverage from Mexico....

[serial jeff]

I thought it was okay... Day 2 was mostly decent. I liked the onboard of Seb in Day 3, but the mistake of showing Ogier's Day2 footage in SS21 is inexcusable. Seriously, that's just total incompetence.

[pavlos_a]

You can watch the Mexico Highlights with North One coverage and Paul King here:

http://racing.skai.gr/default.asp?pid=27

[GigiGalliNo1]

I thought it was okay... Day 2 was mostly decent. I liked the onboard of Seb in Day 3, but the mistake of showing Ogier's Day2 footage in SS21 is inexcusable. Seriously, that's just total incompetence.

MotorsTV Coverage yes? Might want to clarify this...

[serial jeff]

Whoops, I forgot I was actually watching OneHD for Day 2. Don't know anything about day 2 on MotorsTV.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Even though the ISC/NorthOne coverage which is broadcast on ONE HD is miles better than MotorsTV, it's the same as last years... with some improvements!

They still do show the top 3 drivers, Loeb and Hirvonen of course but since the competition is heating up - and was very happy to see Oiger & Solberg fighting in there - it's became an interesting an exciting round to watch!

Coverage of the S-WRC is fantastic on each of the days..... but comparing it to the speed of the WRCars.... a bit slow on take offs and much easier for cameramen to track on turns.... haha (Watching IRC - and the S2000 cars there - they are quick... that's probably because we don't see WRCars racing in the same coverage too!)

Handy Cam's were OK but the HELMET CAM'S were the Best thing! Not only like being the driver but really good effect/perspective for the viewer! (But you can't see out the front window due to the lighting.... ughh)

Block coverage was well done and a good introduction for us all.... but the fact Paul King said "he's competing against the more experienced of Matt Wilson and Viagra" I think that was a silly choice of words because the more experienced is Solberg and Miko, J ML etc.....

[curry]

They still do show the top 3 drivers, Loeb and Hirvonen of course but since the competition is heating up - and was very happy to see Oiger & Solberg fighting in there - it's became an interesting an exciting round to watch!

They hardly showed any of Loeb or Mikko on the last day, rather concentrating on the Petter v Seb (Mk II) battle, which was the correct decision.

I must admit I had both shows to watch but I chose to watch North One via ONE HD here in Australia as I thought there wasn't enough km's to fill Motors '1hr' show and I assumed it would just be heaps of boring in car stuff. For the record I tried to watch Motors on Day 1, but turned it off because of the sound. I did however watch Day 2 on Motors and I was an improvement on Sweden, mainly due to them using the roof cam rather in car cam and covering more of the field.

[KinG^KaoZ]

Oh lord this was dissapointing! I had to register just to vent my frustration!

The commentater stated that Ken Block was reaching for an imaginary clutch, when he clearly was trying to get some revs using the CLUTCH.

I was also confused when Ogier slowed down at the last stage.... oh lord.

WRC on TV is totally ruined for me! How could WRC allow this?

It was as if the commentator watched the show for the first time, then commented it through a phone.

[tintin]

They claimed they wanted to learn from their Sweden mistake although the outdoor coverage has increased very slightly it seems they learned nothing.

A string of onboard shots does not equal rallying coverage. I'm sorry but they have made very little progress. By the time the season is out the coverage might be slightly bearable at this rate.

The amount of external footage is not going to increase. Motors is limited to five minutes of external footage per day. That's part of the contract.




It was as if the commentator watched the show for the first time.

Er, that's how TV works. When you see the pictures at home, that's when the commentator sees them.

[Lousada]

The amount of external footage is not going to increase. Motors is limited to five minutes of external footage per day. That's part of the contract.


Is that more or less than the old Eurosport broadcasts??

[Simmi]

The amount of external footage is not going to increase. Motors is limited to five minutes of external footage per day. That's part of the contract.


Er, that's how TV works. When you see the pictures at home, that's when the commentator sees them.

I don't know who is more stupid. Motors for actually signing a contract of that nature and thinking it would work - or North One for clearly caring so little about its audience that it holds a broadcaster to ransom with shoddy bits of footage. Basically no one wins from this scenario. And I mean no one.

Motors gets jumped on for having a terrible show (and horrible idea). The WRC gets yet more bad tv coverage, only this time it doesn't even cater to their tin-pot sponsors. The teams barely get their cars/sponsors shown on the stages, which coincidentally is the EXACT point of them bothering to compete in the first place. The fans get tired/bored and switch off.

So if North One care so little that they wont even throw an interested broadcaster a bone - what does that say about them. Nothing we didn't already know I suppose.

And Tintin - errrr, I think you meant that's how live tv works. Not an hour of supposedly edited highlights. So think again...

[AndyRAC]

I don't know who is more stupid. Motors for actually signing a contract of that nature and thinking it would work - or North One for clearly caring so little about its audience that it holds a broadcaster to ransom with shoddy bits of footage. Basically no one wins from this scenario. And I mean no one.

Motors gets jumped on for having a terrible show (and horrible idea). The WRC gets yet more bad tv coverage, only this time it doesn't even cater to their tin-pot sponsors. The teams barely get their cars/sponsors shown on the stages, which coincidentally is the EXACT point of them bothering to compete in the first place. The fans get tired/bored and switch off.

So if North One care so little that they wont even throw an interested broadcaster a bone - what does that say about them. Nothing we didn't already know I suppose.

And Tintin - errrr, I think you meant that's how live tv works. Not an hour of supposedly edited highlights. So think again...

I have to agree with you.
Sometimes a sport gets the coverage it deserves - this surely applies to the WRC. Third rate coverage for a third rate sport - and on a third rate channel. Harsh??? Probably..
Look what else MotorsTV cover; Mx, Enduro, Ice Racing, etc all good sports, but hardly 'major League'. Did any other channel want the WRC??
I also agree about NorthOne - really, if they are serious about promoting the sport - stop putting restrictions on what can be shown, and start giving the coverage away. TV companies aren't going to pay top dollar for a minority/ niche sport. Contrast the start of the F1 season with the WRC - professional coverage, not something almost amateurish.
It seems to me, all NorthOne are bothered about is making money. Sort the sporting side out including a proper calendar - then Manufacturers, sponsors, etc will surely follow.

[GigiGalliNo1]

The amount of external footage is not going to increase. Motors is limited to five minutes of external footage per day. That's part of the contract.




Why is that? So what kind of contract is that if they are the new official broadcast partner?! LAME

[KinG^KaoZ]

The amount of external footage is not going to increase. Motors is limited to five minutes of external footage per day. That's part of the contract.




Er, that's how TV works. When you see the pictures at home, that's when the commentator sees them.

Im not sure what you are trying to say here, its not live tv. ;)

[jbmarcus21]

to watch them, i have found this link : http://www.icrawl.org/5658696538-world-rally-championship-2010-mexico-dave-highlights

[sasamsa]

I missed the first rally.. Didnt know eurosport is not covering anymore..
Motors tv isnt exactly a popular channel..
IRC might end up being more popular..
I dont understand 5min outside rule.. That is just insane..

[jbmarcus21]

in my link, you can download too Swedish Event ;)

[WRCfan]

Motors TV is making the poorest footage motorsport has probably ever seen.
Insane. If it does not get better I will be more than happy to wait for a few extra days to view the Eurosport stuff we know and love.

Motors TV are all either brainless or they cant be bothered signing a contract with 5 minutes outside footage. Whoever made the call to say 'Yes that's fine' is brainless...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Just watched Brazil's IRC round from EuroSport...

Review consisted of: Driver profiles, Tire manufacturer profile;

SS1,SS7,SS6 and then SS10 on day two also 2WD crash at the end..

Though only showing a few stages their coverage was much much better than MotorsTV to the WRC....!

Helicam's make the IRC/S2000 cars so fast and exciting to watch! Have you guys seen the in-car Driver vs Driver footage? Ie Meeke vs Wilks on one stage? It's a billion times better being able to see the difference between styles of driving, their speeds and actually how behind one driver is to the other in points of the road, turns, locations and timing on the stage. I would have to admit much better than silly Visual Spectator!

WRC is great in it's own right with ISC/N.O making their coverage but IRC is miles ahead of the MotorsTV coverage... and is much more exciting to watch and follow. But they should cover more stages in the review... but that's why there are the daily highlights and live coverage! Sooo.......

(Just a question... if anyone else follows the IRC - or perhaps to ask in that forum) why is there NO issue of Road Sweeping/Positioning in the IRC? They don't speak of it and they don't seem to have that issue as does the WRC....?

[Sulland]

Have you guys seen the in-car Driver vs Driver footage? Ie Meeke vs Wilks on one stage? It's a billion times better being able to see the difference between styles of driving, their speeds and actually how behind one driver is to the other in points of the road, turns, locations and timing on the stage. I would have to admit much better than silly Visual Spectator!


That split window with two drivers is perfect to really get the idea on where the drivers and cars differ - more of that also in WRC.

If they add a bit telemetry data, and a simple sketch of the SS it would be perfect !

[JFL]

That split window with two drivers is perfect to really get the idea on where the drivers and cars differ - more of that also in WRC.

If they add a bit telemetry data, and a simple sketch of the SS it would be perfect !

:up:
But then we will see how much more power the M1 cars have compared to the privateers. And I don't think that the factoryteams will allow us to see that.. ;)

[KinG^KaoZ]

Just watched Brazil's IRC round from EuroSport...

Review consisted of: Driver profiles, Tire manufacturer profile;

SS1,SS7,SS6 and then SS10 on day two also 2WD crash at the end..

Though only showing a few stages their coverage was much much better than MotorsTV to the WRC....!

Helicam's make the IRC/S2000 cars so fast and exciting to watch! Have you guys seen the in-car Driver vs Driver footage? Ie Meeke vs Wilks on one stage? It's a billion times better being able to see the difference between styles of driving, their speeds and actually how behind one driver is to the other in points of the road, turns, locations and timing on the stage. I would have to admit much better than silly Visual Spectator!

WRC is great in it's own right with ISC/N.O making their coverage but IRC is miles ahead of the MotorsTV coverage... and is much more exciting to watch and follow. But they should cover more stages in the review... but that's why there are the daily highlights and live coverage! Sooo.......

(Just a question... if anyone else follows the IRC - or perhaps to ask in that forum) why is there NO issue of Road Sweeping/Positioning in the IRC? They don't speak of it and they don't seem to have that issue as does the WRC....?

Im not an expert, and Im not even sure what IRC is. But they mentioned that the other races that were going on PWRC and so on, had no problems because the WRC cars went first, eliminating road sweeping for the rest.

[Sulland]

It is amazing how boring Motors TV are able to make a rally on TV. I dont need to see the drivers, I want to see the cars from the outside - end of story !

[tintin]

It is amazing how boring Motors TV are able to make a rally on TV. I dont need to see the drivers, I want to see the cars from the outside - end of story !

Yes, but if you've read this thread at all you'll know that they are not allowed to do that by the WRC.

Given the material they are allowed to show, and the other restrictions placed upon them, they are doing pretty well.

[AndyRAC]

It is amazing how boring Motors TV are able to make a rally on TV. I dont need to see the drivers, I want to see the cars from the outside - end of story !

Motors TV can only go with what they're given. Blame NorthOneSport - why on earth do they have those cameras looking back at the drivers, they're useless!! Show us the stages - and give us more stageside action!!

[Allyc85]

Motors TV can only go with what they're given. Blame NorthOneSport - why on earth do they have those cameras looking back at the drivers, they're useless!! Show us the stages - and give us more stageside action!!

Agreed!

[Barreis]

This year didn't see any of the wrc coverages regularly.. Please bring it back to Eurosport..

[Motorsportfun]

Motors TV can only go with what they're given. Blame NorthOneSport - why on earth do they have those cameras looking back at the drivers, they're useless!! Show us the stages - and give us more stageside action!!

Motors TV wanted a massive amount of on-board footage, but if a tv station wants just the Eurosport-style highlights, they can be requested without problems!

In Italy, RAI broadcast after the rally the one-hour rally review. ;)

[Sulland]

Motors TV wanted a massive amount of on-board footage, but if a tv station wants just the Eurosport-style highlights, they can be requested without problems!

In Italy, RAI broadcast after the rally the one-hour rally review. ;)

Is RAI showing other stuff than Motors TV or just he same material ?

[MrMetro]

hmm, why can't the wrc tv production just be a 'back to basics' style, I don't care about 'virtual spectator', I don't care about the drivers expression and I don't care about having virtual speedometers on screen, and please Motors tv, please have the adverts at the same volume of the tv show as its incredibly annoying when I'm nearly deafened by an insurance advert

[Motorsportfun]

Is RAI showing other stuff than Motors TV or just he same material ?

RAI picks the 55-minutes coverage that North One produces for all (so the "standard coverage", like Eurosport had in the past), Motors TV has a customized coverage.

RAI has lots of external footage, etc.

[GigiGalliNo1]

RAI picks the 55-minutes coverage that North One produces for all (so the "standard coverage", like Eurosport had in the past), Motors TV has a customized coverage.

RAI has lots of external footage, etc.

That is the same with the ONE HD broadcast, they use the North One production showcasing Day 1,2,3 and 1 hour wrap up show.

Sometimes the magazine show too, but it differs to the Dave version with Neil Cole..

[Barreis]

Any link to follow Motorstv on web?

[6789]

I've got some forum links with this years tv links in it, not sure if I;m allowed to post it. Drop me a PM if anyone wants it

[Sulland]

Are there any other channels in any country that sends WRC, and has its own touch from the North-One material ?

Finland maybe ?

[tintin]

Motors TV wanted a massive amount of on-board footage, but if a tv station wants just the Eurosport-style highlights, they can be requested without problems!


I'm not sure Motors "wanted" the on-board show, but they wanted WRC, and that is what was available.

It was all part of North One's plan when they ended the deal with Eurosport: They would sell the main show to individual broadcasters in the key countries (UK, Germany, Italy, France), and to show additional coverage on other channels. The on-board show is part of that additional coverage.

[Barreis]

Bad for WRC..