McLaren: The future

[Mia 01]

I understand your tension, but it is not about racism, it is about backmakers and the way Hamilton called them once. ;)


Yes. And, it was Lewis own words.

[wedge]

Newey is yet to learn that a F1 car's engine needs plenty of airflow for cooling. For some reason he still keeps designing F1 cars as if they were sailing boats.

He's following Colin Chapman's example that a car should breakdown at the finish line ie. pushing the limit of possibility.

In the overall scheme of things Newey's cars can be fragile but at least he comes up with intersting cars.

[ShiftingGears]

He's following Colin Chapman's example that a car should breakdown at the finish line ie. pushing the limit of possibility.

In the overall scheme of things Newey's cars can be fragile but at least he comes up with intersting cars.

Agreed.

[ioan]

He's following Colin Chapman's example that a car should breakdown at the finish line ie. pushing the limit of possibility.

Rules have changed since then.

[wedge]

Rules have changed since then.

Doesn't matter what the rules are. Push the limits/envelope regardless.

If anything cars are more reliable these days.

[ioan]

Doesn't matter what the rules are. Push the limits/envelope regardless.

If anything cars are more reliable these days.


With 8 engines for a season pushing the envelope just 1% too far = disaster.
Anyway the Renault engines in the RBR gave up long before coming withing 90% of their 1st race.

[DexDexter]

Are you kidding? He's already making plenty of money already with those needles he is developing year after year, why should I help him? :p :

Newey is already producing excellent cars, don't give any more ideas or the cars will be unbeatable. :D Nowadays they at least break down easily.

[wedge]

With 8 engines for a season pushing the envelope just 1% too far = disaster.

Same with racing. Push the car too far and it can be disaster.

Schumi pushed the limits on the race track, Brawn did the same technically eg. questioning the legallity of his own barge boards or the legality of rival brand of tyres.

The spirit of competition from the engineers should be the same also and Newey must be commended on this.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=39750

Hmmm....can Mclaren afford to buy back the 40% Daimler own?

[ioan]

Wow! They've spent £49 million to develop the uggly MP4/12-C?! At £200000/ unit they need to sell 250 to break even! :eek: I really doubt this will happen though.

[Mia 01]

Macca have to earn it this year.

[Saint Devote]

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2010jantest1/image/Jenson-75-2

Indeed Mclaren's future looks bright :-]]]

[gloomyDAY]

Wow! They've spent £49 million to develop the uggly MP4/12-C?! At £200000/ unit they need to sell 250 to break even! :eek: I really doubt this will happen though.Yes, the MP4 ...blah blah blah can't be bother to type the rest... is one hell of an ugly car. Although I think they'll be able to sell them at a profit. If a car company makes something hideous, but marketable, people tend to buy them for some inexplicable reason (see: BMW X6).



http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2010jantest1/image/Jenson-75-2

Indeed Mclaren's future looks bright :-]]]Stop being facetious. :p

[Saint Devote]

Stop being facetious. :p

Mois? :s mokin:
Perish the thought!

[Saint Devote]

Stop being facetious. :p

Couldn't take all that goddamn RED showing that oily Spaniard - Jenson in Mclaren colours retores the balance and MORE!!!

Couldn't take all that goddamn RED showing that oily Spaniard - Jenson in Mclaren colours retores the balance and MORE!!!

Racist.

[Dave B]

Wow! They've spent £49 million to develop the uggly MP4/12-C?! At £200000/ unit they need to sell 250 to break even! :eek: I really doubt this will happen though.
How much did VW group spend on the Veyron, only to sell each one at a loss? It's not so much about making profit per unit, it's about brand prestige.

[gloomyDAY]

Racist.Pansy.

:erm: I think the word you were looking for was "insulting" rather than racist... :D

Somehow I doubt you'd be so flippant if it were a Spanish forum member making derogatory comments about Lewis.

What is sauce for the goose.........

"Neale said ensuring that both Button and Hamilton were treated totally equally was a key factor"

""We'd been looking at it since the end of the season, but, naturally, weren't making any decisions in race engineering until we'd finalised our driver line-up," he said. "Now that we have Jenson confirmed to drive alongside Lewis, we want to make absolutely sure we can do an equal job for both drivers"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80804

Which pretty much confirms that, previously, Mclaren did not provide equal equipment.

[henners88]

Somehow I doubt you'd be so flippant if it were a Spanish forum member making derogatory comments about Lewis.

What is sauce for the goose.........
Well for someone who has a history of generalising a group of people you are quick to judge. That was a stereotypical remark, not a racist one based on colour or creed. Remember your previous opinions of British fans?:


Judging by the brain dead morons who attended Silverstone over the years..

Nobody at Silverstone has an IQ over 3.....

I have seen them staring through the fence into the paddock on many occassions and can confirm that they are gormless geeks..

I was working, within the paddock, on complicated aerodynamics....you know, things that make the air go "swish" in a better way....whilst the great unwashed zombies stared pathetically through the fencing that, sadly, lacked the necessary barbed wire.

I have seen some signs of progress in some of the filthy urchins...


None of these were racist, but you were intent on insulting alot of people here at the time including myself. Now lets get back to Mclaren and leave racism and insulting remarks out of it . :)

Well for someone who has a history of generalising a group of people you are quick to judge. That was a stereotypical remark, not a racist one based on colour or creed. Remember your previous opinions of British fans?:

None of these were racist, but you were intent on insulting alot of people here at the time including myself. Now lets get back to Mclaren and leave racism and insulting remarks out of it . :)

I stand by my comments about people attending the British GP.

It had feck all to do with their ethnicity.

As Michael Jackson once said "it doesn't matter if you're black or white"

[Robinho]

As Michael Jackson once said "it doesn't matter if you're black or white"

it certainly didn't for him, he was a **** up when he was black and when he was white

[motetarip]

How much did VW group spend on the Veyron, only to sell each one at a loss? It's not so much about making profit per unit, it's about brand prestige.

VW certainly did make a huge loss on the Veyron, but then again they have several other brands raking in huge profits so they can afford a little excess in the name of pushing technology and prestige. McLaren on the other hand have only the new car and a few badged up Mercs to bring in the money, so its a bit more critical that they do get back the costs.

[Saint Devote]

Racist.

Don't be so silly :D

Its a play on words - olives from Spain, olive oil...... It will be a sad day when political correctness forces a humourless world.

By your comment I'd say you live in the United States, have never experienced living in Britain - where the sense of humour was INVENTED and have never worked with Brits - I think you'd run crying all the way to the political correctness police.

Maybe THATS why little Fernando threw all his toys out of the crib - he could'nt take the ribbing from the Mclaren mechanics or maybe it was Lewis who "spread the word" - pop goes Alonso!!

PS: which part did you find offended you? the "oily" or the "Spaniard" part :-]]

[Saint Devote]

Somehow I doubt you'd be so flippant if it were a Spanish forum member making derogatory comments about Lewis.

What is sauce for the goose.........

You don't know much about the Brits do you? My grandfather came from Britain and I lived there a couple of years too, and I have a great deal of affection for that nation.

Maybe before you watch the next grand prix at Sakhir you purchase a copy of Peter Ustinov's wonderful "Grand Prix of Gibraltar" - it may explain and teach a lot.

[Saint Devote]

Racist.

But if it offended you, it was not my intention at all and I do apologize :)

[garyshell]

Don't be so silly :D

Its a play on words - olives from Spain, olive oil...... It will be a sad day when political correctness forces a humourless world.

By your comment I'd say you live in the United States, have never experienced living in Britain - where the sense of humour was INVENTED and have never worked with Brits - I think you'd run crying all the way to the political correctness police.

Maybe THATS why little Fernando threw all his toys out of the crib - he could'nt take the ribbing from the Mclaren mechanics or maybe it was Lewis who "spread the word" - pop goes Alonso!!

PS: which part did you find offended you? the "oily" or the "Spaniard" part :-]]

Good god, man. You really are cluesless aren't you? If you think that was a play on words, don't quit your day job to become a comedy sketch writer.

And as for telling tamburello about Britian... well I'll just wait and watch the sparks fly.

Gary

[henners88]

You don't know much about the Brits do you?
Tamburello is British and as far as I know actually lives here. He may not have adopted the sense of humour of an unwashed, gormless geek who doesn't know what going on however... ;)

Anyway lets not ramble on about this, and focus on Mclaren.. :)

[SGWilko]

"Neale said ensuring that both Button and Hamilton were treated totally equally was a key factor"

""We'd been looking at it since the end of the season, but, naturally, weren't making any decisions in race engineering until we'd finalised our driver line-up," he said. "Now that we have Jenson confirmed to drive alongside Lewis, we want to make absolutely sure we can do an equal job for both drivers"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80804

Which pretty much confirms that, previously, Mclaren did not provide equal equipment.

Actually, I read it to imply that - after the Alonso debacle where Fred was unable to cope with being beaten, by a rookie, paid less than him & consequently made every excuse to hide his vulnerability - in order to allow both drivers to start with a clean sheet (remember, both Lewis and Fred were in their first seasons with McLaren in '07, so did not already have an established working relationship with their allocated engineering teams), personnel changes have been made.

Only a 'tool' would see it any differently, wouldn't they?

I do wonder at times however....

[SGWilko]

As Michael Jackson once said "it doesn't matter if you're black or white"

Well, he was both wasn't he?

Actually, I read it to imply that - after the Alonso debacle where Fred was unable to cope with being beaten, by a rookie, paid less than him & consequently made every excuse to hide his vulnerability - in order to allow both drivers to start with a clean sheet (remember, both Lewis and Fred were in their first seasons with McLaren in '07, so did not already have an established working relationship with their allocated engineering teams), personnel changes have been made.

Only a 'tool' would see it any differently, wouldn't they?

I do wonder at times however....

And the award for naivety goes to SGWilko.

[SGWilko]

And the award for naivety goes to SGWilko.

Dang it, I'm gonna have to look that one up...

Dang it, I'm gonna have to look that one up...

Well, if you just post me any gold you have, I'll let you know where you can collect your award.

[Bagwan]

Well, if you just post me any gold you have, I'll let you know where you can collect your award.

Send that gold to me .
I run the post office now .

I'll make sure he gets it .

[ioan]

How much did VW group spend on the Veyron, only to sell each one at a loss? It's not so much about making profit per unit, it's about brand prestige.

The difference is that the Veyron was/is just a marketing exercise and VW could afford to do that while McLaren are in the red because of their half backed half sportscar.

[ioan]

VW certainly did make a huge loss on the Veyron, but then again they have several other brands raking in huge profits so they can afford a little excess in the name of pushing technology and prestige. McLaren on the other hand have only the new car and a few badged up Mercs to bring in the money, so its a bit more critical that they do get back the costs.

Exactly.

[DexDexter]

"Neale said ensuring that both Button and Hamilton were treated totally equally was a key factor"

""We'd been looking at it since the end of the season, but, naturally, weren't making any decisions in race engineering until we'd finalised our driver line-up," he said. "Now that we have Jenson confirmed to drive alongside Lewis, we want to make absolutely sure we can do an equal job for both drivers"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80804

Which pretty much confirms that, previously, Mclaren did not provide equal equipment.

Which is what Heikki has been whispering (doesn't dare to say it out loud) to the Finnish press for the last two years.

[SGWilko]

Got to love censorship... I'm starting to wonder why we write on this forum :p

Humour police been issuing charisma bypasses again?

[pino]

Humour police been issuing charisma bypasses again?

Sorry I am italian and I don't understand the british humour :rolleyes: now back to the topic...please!

[SGWilko]

Sorry I am italian and I don't understand the british humour :rolleyes: now back to the topic...please!

Don't apologise for being Italian - be proud of your nationality.

Now that you have fessed up to being in the dark at Brit humour, don't assume we are being insyulting.

Sometimes, PM's making accusations of stupid/insulting comments when in fact it was harmless farm is counterproductive.

Keep the faith.

Yours truly

A humurous Brit.....

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry I am italian and I don't understand the british humour :rolleyes: now back to the topic...please!

pino, you need to go to Cortina for a ski holiday. There is a wonderful cafe with the most marvellous cakes in the main street.

[SGWilko]

Don't apologise for being Italian - be proud of your nationality.

Now that you have fessed up to being in the dark at Brit humour, don't assume we are being insyulting.

Sometimes, PM's making accusations of stupid/insulting comments when in fact it was harmless farm is counterproductive.

Keep the faith.

Yours truly

A humurous Brit.....

Hmmm, typing on a Blackberry screen is perilous......

[ioan]

Hmmm, typing on a Blackberry screen is perilous......

Practice makes perfect! ;)

[SGWilko]

Practice makes perfect! ;)

More haste less speed in this instance I think!

[Saint Devote]

Sorry I am italian and I don't understand the british humour :rolleyes: now back to the topic...please!

If you permit me the privilege please Pino - which is why it took a Brit [Ross Brawn] to organize an Italian team and a German driver to enable Ferrari to win five championships in a row. Hein? :D

I remember when Gordon Murray used to have "The Clash" blaring from the pits next door to the Ferrari team and they would just shake with annoyance - great days now long gone ;(

[Saint Devote]

"Neale said ensuring that both Button and Hamilton were treated totally equally was a key factor"

""We'd been looking at it since the end of the season, but, naturally, weren't making any decisions in race engineering until we'd finalised our driver line-up," he said. "Now that we have Jenson confirmed to drive alongside Lewis, we want to make absolutely sure we can do an equal job for both drivers"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80804

Which pretty much confirms that, previously, Mclaren did not provide equal equipment.

It does not confirm that at all. His answer is nuanced.

He merely declared that given the presence of the two most recent world championship winners, Mclaren will ENSURE that there are no discrepencies.

This is not about favouring them - it is about understanding how to utilize the assets best.

Mclaren is not the same team as in 2008 commanded by Dennis. Whitmarsh is a totally different character and his managment style is different, including approach.

Also he has two drivers who are known for their reticence and calm behaviour especially under pressure.

Alonso may have no driving flaws and, other than Schumi is the only one on the grid that way, but his temperament is something that can and HAS undermined him in highly pressurized situations. He is a drama queen auld sunne!

There is no Flavio to harness his histrionic tendencies and we await with baited breath the result of a "day at the races" when Massa beats him.

The scream will likely be heard all the way back to di Montezemolo's office at Maranello!

Mclaren I think is going to produce the 2010 world champion.

[F1boat]

Devote, IMO Lewis is worse than Fred, remember Monaco 2007? If Jenson beats Lewis, Hamilton won't take it well.

[ArrowsFA1]

If Jenson beats Lewis, Hamilton won't take it well.
Of course he won't. Any driver in any team wants to beat his team-mate and if it doesn't happen there are, on the surface at least, no excuses because they have the same car and the same opportunity to win; although that doesn't stop drivers looking for reasons why they've been beaten. It's the nature of any F1 driver. They believe they are, or can be, the best - they wouldn't be in F1 if they didn't - and being beaten, especially by a team-mate - does not sit well with any of them.

[Valve Bounce]

I do not, for one minute, believe there will be this lovey dovey feeling between the two Brits at McLaren next year. It will be cut throat, and may the lessor fighter lose. As Max said: "This is not the classical music".

[Saint Devote]

I agree with Henners there. Also, drivers do not like being beaten by teammates but its the way they manage it. Good drivers understand the situation and usually do manage by raising their performance level.

Last year even Nakajima tried harder versus Rosberg.

I'd say of the top drivers in f1 Alonso is by far the most immature that way - perhaps he has matured.

Lewis was a good example of how a driver ought to react - 2007 and, how a driver ought to act given the difficulties of 2009.

[Mark]

Certainly I think most people expect Hamilton to beat Button quite easily. He's been with the team for three years now and is generally regarded as being faster. So Button has everything to gain and Hamilton everything to lose!

[Garry Walker]

Which is what Heikki has been whispering (doesn't dare to say it out loud) to the Finnish press for the last two years.

Heikki as not given equal treatment only in one matter. When talent was given, LH was just given a bit more of it than HK. That is it.

[F1boat]

I agree with Henners there. Also, drivers do not like being beaten by teammates but its the way they manage it. Good drivers understand the situation and usually do manage by raising their performance level.

Last year even Nakajima tried harder versus Rosberg.

I'd say of the top drivers in f1 Alonso is by far the most immature that way - perhaps he has matured.

Lewis was a good example of how a driver ought to react - 2007 and, how a driver ought to act given the difficulties of 2009.

IMO Lewis reacted in a horrible way in 2007. After Monaco he was like a spoilt brat and in the end of the season he was blinded with desire to beat Alonso and made a series of idiotic mistakes. While Alonso IMO defended himself in the only way possible, taking it to the FIA and managed to claw back an enormous back to finish equal in points to Hamilton.
Alonso talks a lot when a situation arises, like China 06, but usually drives very well in the crucial moments.

[ShiftingGears]

Lewis was a good example of how a driver ought to react - 2007 and, how a driver ought to act given the difficulties of 2009.

As I recall early in 2009 Hamilton was questioning whether the team was still supporting him, when the car was very bad. Also I was very unimpressed by his part in throwing Dave Ryan under the bus.

[wedge]

IMO Lewis reacted in a horrible way in 2007. After Monaco he was like a spoilt brat and in the end of the season he was blinded with desire to beat Alonso and made a series of idiotic mistakes. While Alonso IMO defended himself in the only way possible, taking it to the FIA and managed to claw back an enormous back to finish equal in points to Hamilton.
Alonso talks a lot when a situation arises, like China 06, but usually drives very well in the crucial moments.

Alonso defending himself the only way possible?!

:rotflmao:

Alonso did the dirtiest and most morally corrupt deed of all. He colluded with Coughlin, De La Rosa with the cheating and decided to play the Ace up his sleeve by blackmailling Ron Dennis, your own employer. And all because he had a team mate who could beat him to WDC.

[F1boat]

Alonso defending himself the only way possible?!

:rotflmao:

Alonso did the dirtiest and most morally corrupt deed of all. He colluded with Coughlin, De La Rosa with the cheating and decided to play the Ace up his sleeve by blackmailling Ron Dennis, your own employer. And all because he had a team mate who could beat him to WDC.

His employer favored the other guy. Ron deserved what he got from Alonso.

[F1boat]

I don't think I could have put it any better myself. Blackmailing anybody is dirty and people justifying it with unproven assumptions that one was favoured over the other is lame. Steffano was very clear in Alonso's induction as to how they operate by the sounds of things. He has to prove he is faster and not expect the team to pull the strings before he has done the work.. :)

But Ferrari won't relegate him to number two either ;)

[jens]

When the 2007 discussion pops up and "favoritism" card is played, it always leaves me a bit puzzled. Maybe someone can tell in which way was Alonso disadvantaged in McLaren? I mean I can find examples of Ross Brawn's team working in favour of their lead driver (like that iffy 2009 Spain strategy), but I cannot remember a single example of Hamilton being favoured over Alonso in a situation of competition. When Alonso was ahead of Hamilton - even at the end of the season at Spa and Monza, after all those relationship messes with the team - he was allowed to stay in front and get a superior result without strange strategy calls or whatever. No hindrance in performance whatsoever.

Sure, Dennis may not have loved Alonso as much as Hamilton, but a driver should be able to deal with psychological issues, when from the practical point of view everything is all right. And before someone quotes that famous phrase "we are racing Alonso", then I can tell you it has nothing to do with hindering Alonso's performance, just informing Hamilton, which is the most sensible approach to have in his own race performance. Which in turn is only the most sensible thing to do in a race situation.

[F1boat]

Didn't the exact quote was "We were racing Alonso" post-race? Also I remember similar discussion in the blog of JA and he confirmed that Ron was leading the whole thing, not just the LH strategy. And about how Lewis was favored, there are ways in which this can be done, for example like setup. I even remember that the FIA sent stewards to ensure equality...
But this is a topic like "McLaren: The Past". The important thing is that IMO the future will be clear :)

[jens]

I even remember that the FIA sent stewards to ensure equality...


Well, FIA sent the stewards for the Brazilian Grand Prix, but it's not like they discovered anything there. And Hamilton was still faster than Alonso all weekend.

[ioan]

Well, FIA sent the stewards for the Brazilian Grand Prix, but it's not like they discovered anything there.

Even I don't believe that Mclaren are as stupid as to do something wrong with a FIA observer on their heels shortly after escaping being thrown out of F1.

The FIA observer was there to ensure equality was upheld during the race not to search for biased behavior.

[ioan]

Well its refreshing to see that after all these years of using the number 1 driver rule, they have finally adopted the equal status ethic of Mclaren.. :)

:rotflmao:

You mean like in Oz 1998, or Canada 2005 just to name a couple that have nothing to do with Lewis and Heiki! :D

[Valve Bounce]

Well its refreshing to see that after all these years of using the number 1 driver rule, they have finally adopted the equal status ethic of Mclaren.. :)

..................Which is................??????????????????

[Valve Bounce]

The fastest will prevail... ;)

The guy who gets the more equal car will be faster.

[SGWilko]

The guy who gets the more equal car will be faster.

The guy who, working with his engineers, sets his car up best for the prevailing conditions, and then goes like stink in the race will be faster.

The guy who, working with his engineers, sets his car up best for the prevailing conditions, and then goes like stink in the race will be faster.

Whilst his team-mate is hobbled by adjustments in tyre pressures to which he had no input.

Or having to run a "development" engine that had previously not been tested.

That last one was Monza 1988, so save the sanctimonious crap....Mclaren have a long history of being snide and underhand when it comes to team-mate treatment.

The fact that Mclaren have had to act to appear to be providing equal treatment for Jenson shows how duplicitous they have been previously, but then a team moulded in the character of Ron "integrity" Dennis is inevitably going to operate in a deceitful and underhand manner.

Only Autosport-zombies think otherwise, which says it all.

[Valve Bounce]

The guy who, working with his engineers, sets his car up best for the prevailing conditions, and then goes like stink in the race will be faster.

That is, of course, if he has the more equal car!

[Valve Bounce]

We only have to look at 2007 to see what happens when 2 drivers have equal cars. Excuses are found, and toys get hurled when performance is not as expected. I applaud Kimi for not getting childish in 2008 when the chassis was modified and installed without his permission. It suited Massa but not Kimi's style, yet he has 4 bad races and is labelled as crap. Similar situation and handled totally differently.

I shall be watching Fernando's transition at Ferrari very closely as he's cried unfair advantage with 2 teams now, and wonder if he'll make it a third. :)

Don't worry!! Fernando will get an equal car at Ferrari, absolutely.

We only have to look at 2007 to see what happens when 2 drivers have equal cars.

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"

George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 10

[Valve Bounce]

That sounds more like a contradiction than fact.. :confused:

That's where equality gets you. :p :

[SGWilko]

Only Autosport-zombies think otherwise, which says it all.

I take it that an Autosport-zombie is one who uses links to Autosport to make a point?

[Valve Bounce]

"All pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others"

And if they flew like the eagles in Mobile, then you'd be in big trouble. :eek:

[Saint Devote]

We only have to look at 2007 to see what happens when 2 drivers have equal cars. Excuses are found, and toys get hurled when performance is not as expected. I applaud Kimi for not getting childish in 2008 when the chassis was modified and installed without his permission. It suited Massa but not Kimi's style, yet he has 4 bad races and is labelled as crap. Similar situation and handled totally differently.

I shall be watching Fernando's transition at Ferrari very closely as he's cried unfair advantage with 2 teams now, and wonder if he'll make it a third. :)

There was another driver that used to be known as an "unfair" cry baby [from his f3 days in Britain] - his name was Ayrton Senna.

There is a great example reported by Nigel Roebuck from the time where in 1988 - prior to the beginning of the feud, Prost [who loved his mind games and his humor annoyed Senna] would trigger the Senna to Dennis complaint loudly in the pits "its not fair" .......

[Valve Bounce]

I take it that an Autosport-zombie is one who uses links to Autosport to make a point?

Man! that's unreal!! more like a Vampire, don't you think?? :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

I'm sure he will, so I'll be intrigued to know what he'll use as an excuse if Massa is leading him in the WDC by mid season. If he can't blame unfair treatment in the cockpit, who knows what he'll say... Then again maybe he's learnt from his past mistakes.

He'll simply point out that Massa has the more equal car. :D

[Valve Bounce]

I think we'd better cut it out. If pino came back and caught us, we'd all be equally in BIG TROUBLE :(

I take it that an Autosport-zombie is one who uses links to Autosport to make a point?

No, an Autosport-zombie is somebody who goes past the "news" section into the Mclaren in-house magazine section and believes a single word of Hughes and co.

It's interesting that Mclaren have decided to appear to be fair now, when the all-British line-up means the previously supportive British press would lynch them for being anything but.

Life was so much easier when it was two foreigners being given the equal/unequal treatment and big bad nasty Ferrari had that Schumacher baddie, or when a Spaniard or a Finn were getting the excrement covered end of the stick and the Brit getting the better deal.

[Saint Devote]

Whilst his team-mate is hobbled by adjustments in tyre pressures to which he had no input.

Or having to run a "development" engine that had previously not been tested.

That last one was Monza 1988, so save the sanctimonious crap....Mclaren have a long history of being snide and underhand when it comes to team-mate treatment.

The fact that Mclaren have had to act to appear to be providing equal treatment for Jenson shows how duplicitous they have been previously, but then a team moulded in the character of Ron "integrity" Dennis is inevitably going to operate in a deceitful and underhand manner.

Only Autosport-zombies think otherwise, which says it all.

I see Jense is going to be a real "double-hate" coupon this year - resented for himself AND now he is a hated [by the tifosi] Mclaren "evil empire" driver too!!

Listen-up matey, before you start casting dispersions on Mclaren as you have I suggest you look closer to home at the Ferrari team.

Its a good thing the colour of the Scuderia is red - unlike the silver Mclaren - because it disguises the blood of all those people that have been stabbed in the BACK over the years. Just get Niki Lauda to talk on that subject.

No, no - you know that people who read Autosport are pretty well-informed, you just WANT others to believe nonsense about the great mag and their readers, celebrating its 60th birthday in August. I got your game boyo!

[SGWilko]

No, an Autosport-zombie is somebody who goes past the "news" section into the Mclaren in-house magazine section and believes a single word of Hughes and co, journalists who only stop typing to suck Ron Dennis off.

It's interesting that Mclaren have decided to appear to be fair now, when the all-British line-up means the previously supportive British press would lynch them for being anything but.

Life was so much easier when it was two foreigners being given the equal/unequal treatment and big bad nasty Ferrari had that Schumacher baddie, or when a Spaniard or a Finn were getting the excrement covered end of the stick and the Brit getting the better deal.


Didn't Mika actualy do rather well against his Brit teammate?

Oh, of course, silly me, you are being a little selective.... again....

I'll stick to sarnies, gloves and tea, eh?

Didn't Mika actualy do rather well against his Brit teammate?

Oh, of course, silly me, you are being a little selective.... again....

I'll stick to sarnies, gloves and tea, eh?

As if the Daily Maill and its readership gives a toss about a Scot.

Mind you don't scold yourself.

[SGWilko]

As if the Daily Maill and its readership gives a toss about a Scot.

Mind you don't scold yourself.

A Scot is a Brit.

Accept the faster driver goes quicker.

I don't read the daily mail for two reasons;

1. I can't read

and

b. Not enough pictures of Bristols....

and

iii. I can't count so good.

[Valve Bounce]

As if the Daily Maill and its readership gives a toss about a Scot.

Mind you don't scold yourself.

You read the Daily Mail :rolleyes:

[SGWilko]

You read the Daily Mail :rolleyes:

Only for it's balanced impartial political commentary.....

[SGWilko]

I think we'd better cut it out. If pino came back and caught us, we'd all be equally in BIG TROUBLE :(

With a capital T?

And some more equal than others, right?

[Valve Bounce]

With a capital T?

And some more equal than others, right?
Nah!! pino will just ban us all equally!! :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Only for it's balanced impartial political commentary.....

My Mum used to get free music CD's every week with her Daily Mail.

[SGWilko]

My Mum used to get free music CD's every week with her Daily Mail.

But they are usually carp live performances, of films whose DVD chapters dont work etc.....

I happen to like the fact that, having read about an earthquake in Haiti and how it's not safe to go out what with gangs of SGWilkos & Henners88's at every street corner, I can then enjoy "The Wind In The Willows".

[ioan]

But they are usually carp live performances, of films whose DVD chapters dont work etc.....

You sure in the know about them. :p

A Scot is a Brit.

Try saying that at last orders in Glasgow.

Oh, and remind whose flag adorned Coulthards helmet?

[SGWilko]

Try saying that at last orders in Glasgow.

Oh, and remind whose flag adorned Coulthards helmet?

The Saltire does not change his nationality.

I've stopped going to glasgow now, I was finding it increasingly difficault not to tread on a disgarded syringe......

[SGWilko]

http://www.autosport.com/plus/

Pick any page.

I picked this at random.

Analysing Wrooom's exceptional growth

From a friendly meeting between a group of journalists and drivers, Ferrari's Wrooom has become a huge event that catches the attention of millions of people. Dieter Rencken looks at how the even has grown over the years

Variously perceived to be Ferrari's week-long ski camp at which team announcements are made, an official Formula 1 media gathering, or a combined Ferrari/Ducati ‘jolly' function, the concept of the annual Wrooom festival began life almost 30 years ago as nothing other than a social ski bash casually organised by a couple of Italian journalists who wished to frolic in the white stuff with a few F1 drivers.

However, so exponential has been the event's growth that last year visuals from the Dolomites were seen by over 1 billion people in 186 countries – ranging from Afghanistan through Sudan to Zimbabwe.

But, back to the very beginning...


Rubens Barrichello enjoys the snow in 2004 © LAT
In 1982 the veteran award-winning photographer Ercole Colombo, to this day still extremely cosy with the team and contributor to scores of books on the Scuderia, and journalist Adriano Costa spent the off-season covering skiing championships, including the group of five G5 'grand-slam' masters events.

This led them to suggest a skiing bonanza with a few of the more approachable drivers, and thus the likes of Gilles Villeneuve, Didier Pironi, Patrick Tambay, Nelson Piquet (Snr), Ricardo Patrese, and later, Ayrton Senna, joined the intrepid pair in early January for a pre-season week of frolicking and fun.

They chose the Sestriere ski resort (near Turin) for the initial meet – although the plan was to rotate events at G venues – and local hoteliers were quick to grasp the advantages of having a dozen or so of the world's fastest sportsmen grouped together under their roofs for a week or so.

No surprise, then, that they enterprisingly offered the use of their establishments and ski lifts free of charge. The next step was for the hosting communities to sponsor the by-now annual meetings of an expanding group of Italian journalists and F1 stars.

A fully sponsored event was just a step away, but this strategy brought problems: when, for example, the Industrial Vehicle Corporation (Iveco) agreed to sponsor an event, Renault's drivers were forbidden from participating due to commercial conflicts. The FIAT Group, at that stage revamping its Sestriere resort, offered its facilities without restrictions or commercial impositions.

In parallel, a young Italian had been carving a name for himself in the Italian tobacco market. Having held responsibility for promoting Madonna di Campiglio – which had but one major annual event, namely the one-day ‘3 Tre' world championship slalom shoot-out (named after 3 races in Trentino, the region within which Madonna finds itself, and pronounced 'tray-tray') – Maurizio Arrivabene joined Philip Morris in a (junior) Marlboro sales capacity.

So successful were his efforts that, while Philip Morris International principally sponsored McLaren, plus Ferrari's drivers – whereby Philip Morris paid the Scuderia's drivers in return for Marlboro branding initially on the overalls, and later on the cars, albeit in low-key fashion – Arrivabene's budgets were sufficiently large to enable his department to separately fund the new BMS Scuderia Italia outfit. His F1 links did not end there, either: He is today Philip Morris International Vice-President with responsibility for Marlboro global communications and promotion, by virtue of which he sits on the F1 Commission as sponsor representative.

Drawing on his earlier duties in Madonna, Arrivabene was quick to grasp the potential of formalising the ski week, and in 1991 he offered Marlboro Italy sponsorship for a (refreshingly open) media/(exceedingly fine, and mostly in that order) wining and dining/(arduous, day and night) skiing event for the Italian media in the enchanting resort. A name was sought, and in those early days the week-long fest was christened Wroom 'si gira' (after the sound of a revving engine and the Italian term for 'action').


Jean Alesi and Alain Prost at the 1991 Canadian Grand Prix © LAT
Alain Prost and Jean Alesi were the Scuderia's drivers that year – coincidentally amongst the most disappointing seasons in Ferrari history - and, whilst not Italian, certainly knew how to strap on skis. Yet they were strangely absent from that inaugural event, which played host to a handful of (Italian) journalists and a tiny group of Ferrari personnel, mainly technical.

Still, it set the scene for the future, and, like Topsy, the event grew in numbers and stature despite being (mainly) confined to Ferrari's drivers, sponsor and team representatives, and ‘A' list Italian media folk. With McLaren then being Marlboro's primary commercial focus, the Woking team was invited, and both David Coulthard and Mika Hakkinen, plus Ron and Lisa Dennis, became regular visitors to the Dolomites.

Gradually, ‘foreign' media members were invited, but, according to F1 stalwart Nigel Wolheim, who has attended virtually every edition since Colombo first dreamed up the concept, Wroom was at that stage largely Italo-centric.

That, though, changed with the signings of Michael Schumacher and Eddie Irvine by Ferrari. The former was (and remains) a motorsport paparazzi's dream target, and Philip Morris rapidly realised it was better to have the international media inside the tent peering out than the opposite. At the same time Marlboro and McLaren parted ways, enabling Wroom to concentrate solely upon Ferrari and its drivers.

Thus the event went fully international, with Madonna di Campiglio gaining massive worldwide exposure in the process, so much so that the name of the hamlet in arguably the most picturesque region within the Trentino Dolomites was exposed first to millions, then to tens and hundreds of millions of people, until last year the number of people who saw at least a single news snippet or visual generated by Wroom exceeded a billion people. (The 'si gira' suffix had since been dropped for simplicity's sake).

In fact, so did Wroom overshadow Madonna's annual 3 Tre event, which had by then lost world title status (due to be restored in 2012), that the village and region came in as partners to Philip Morris, and Wroom is today (by an enormous margin) the region's largest annual festival, with thousands of holidaymakers planning their vacations around Wroom Week simply to get a glance of their motorsporting heroes on the slopes. Since then Shell, Puma, FIAT, and Alfa Romeo have lent support, with the latter two providing courtesy cars.

Marlboro took title sponsorship of the Ducati MotoGP team in 2003, and hosted stand-alone media sessions in the Dolomites in, respectively, 2004/5, but in 2007 that event was absorbed into Wroom, giving the week additional status immediately after Michael Schumacher retired from active competition. That said, with his recently announced comeback - and latest antics in a GP2 car - the German legend was a much discussed subject during this year's celebratory, 20th anniversary edition of Wrooom...


Luca di Montezemolo, Tamara and Bernie Ecclestone at Wroom 2009
Last year, at the height of F1's various political wrangles, Bernie Ecclestone graced Wrooom with his presence. In typical BCE style he brushed off suggestions of milking the event for own purposes, stating he had been in the area on winter vacation and simply popped in to wish daughter Tamara, present for Sky TV Italia, Happy 2009, and if journalists wished to question him, replies were only courteous...

Of course, the thorny subjects of team revenues and other Ferrari/FOTA issues (Ferrari president Luca Montezemolo was then FOTA chairman) were commented upon by Ecclestone, causing the suave Italian to unexpectedly find himself in the vicinity and thus able to hotfoot it up the mountains at short notice to dispute some of Ecclestone's statements – resulting in massive worldwide coverage for an event which had in the meantime grown to become F1's pre-eminent pre-season event.

This year Bernie returned – despite Ms T Ecclestone not being present – and, although he was far from political during interviews, bets are on that Montezemolo will put in an appearance at some stage before Wroom ends Saturday.

An idea of Wrooom's growth over the years is best illustrated by a look at the numbers: In 1991 a team of five organised the entire event, which hosted, according to Wolheim, just 30 Italian journalists stationed in a single hotel; today over 120 staff tend to around 150 media members representing outlets (TV, radio, print, internet and photographers) in 60-odd countries, with whole hotels throughout the town taken over by Wrooom to accommodate the full contingent which numbers 400 with all support functions, proving that oil and (frozen) water do mix superbly.

Nothing but sex sex sex. Disgusting, isn't it....