RWD Cars to run spec 1st gear

[Allyc85]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80135

I can understand why they have done it but it seems a bit harsh IMO and it takes a bit of a variable out of the race.

[LiamM]

If it attracts a few more FWD cars into the series then I guess it could be a good thing,

TOCA are good at this equalisation thing just look at the weights issue, BTCC have it spot on whereas the FIA have it round their neck, so I hope we can say it not be an issue

[tisme]

If it attracts a few more FWD cars into the series then I guess it could be a good thing,
Why do you say that? No manufacturers are making new cars to race!!!! When will people understand teams can only use the cars that are avaliable?

Except that the BTCC don't want BMW's in their championship!

The bit I don't understand. They have penalised BMW because of their better starts.... but how many wins did they get in the last TWELVE races??? TWO!
And how many pole positions in the last TWELVE races???? NONE!

Someone please tell me what advantage BMW are getting with their better starts????

[LiamM]

I meant that it might encourage more teams to think about joining with a FWD car if the 'advantage' RWD cars have over them is taken away, not necessarily manufacturers

[tisme]

I meant that it might encourage more teams to think about joining with a FWD car if the 'advantage' RWD cars have over them is taken away, not necessarily manufacturers
Yes, I understand that... but WHAT FWD cars are avaliable??

Top of the list..
Chevrolet? SO expensive, a drive in the RML car in 2009 was cheaper than at Tempus!
SEAT? As Liam McMilan found out, if you are not running at the front SEAT don't wont to know you and almost prevent you from racing!
Vauxhall Vectra? Again they will take a lot of money to run. And with 888 closing down, where are you going to get support from?
Honda Civic? There may be a chance to get a Civic from TD. But even they were struggling to get the car to work in 2009. Now they have Matt back, most of their time will be taken up by developing the car?

Come on, help me out here. I can't find a S2000 spec FWD car suitable for a team starting out in the BTCC?

To sum up, yes there are some FWD cars around, you just need a win on the euro lottery to fund them!

[PitMarshal]

I can't really understand this back-door anti-rwd campaign that BTCC have. The cars are based on production saloons. If a car comes out of the factory with FWD, RWD, 4WD, or a hamster in a giant wheel, the that's how it should be raced. Making RWD less competitive won't do anything except force the bigger teams to spend more money trying to get around it, and the smaller teams into other series such as Britcar where they can run competitively.

[LiamM]

Yes, I understand that... but WHAT FWD cars are avaliable??

Top of the list..
Chevrolet? SO expensive, a drive in the RML car in 2009 was cheaper than at Tempus!
SEAT? As Liam McMilan found out, if you are not running at the front SEAT don't wont to know you and almost prevent you from racing!
Vauxhall Vectra? Again they will take a lot of money to run. And with 888 closing down, where are you going to get support from?
Honda Civic? There may be a chance to get a Civic from TD. But even they were struggling to get the car to work in 2009. Now they have Matt back, most of their time will be taken up by developing the car?

Come on, help me out here. I can't find a S2000 spec FWD car suitable for a team starting out in the BTCC?

To sum up, yes there are some FWD cars around, you just need a win on the euro lottery to fund them!

Alfa 156? They are still very good cars, N Technology proved it in the WTCC, just need a team that can get a handle on the Dunlops.
Honda Accord? JTs performance says it all

Outside bet - LADA Priora

I'll exclude the C30 cos unless Volvo bring some, I can imagine they will be the most expensive thing out there

[mattie007]

Peugeot 407 and Audi A4?

It does seem ToCa dont like BMW! Its there only advantage and they have many disadvantages compared to FWD. Just look when it rains or when they are 'tapped' from the rear, no chance.....

[Allyc85]

It does make you wonder if they are going to slowly try and force them out to make it easier for when the NGT rules come in...

[BTCC2]

This BMW issue is by no means new. If anyone who was following the BTCC in the mid 90s can remember we had Colin Gallie in the BMW in 1997 who had to run a load of extra weight because he drove a RWD car.

[BDunnell]

I think this is utterly ludicrous. If TOCA wants to make the BTCC a spec front-wheel-drive formula, then it should just do so. Don't penalise teams for wanting to run a BMW. Unfortunately, the organisers of touring car championships have become rather too keen in recent years to do away with a true meritocracy. Take the WTCC and the way in which it assisted Chevrolet when the Lacetti looked hopeless. The car was crap — end of story. It wasn't good enough to compete. That should have been Chevy's problem, not that of the WTCC administrators. In the BTCC, so what if a BMW is quick off the line? Hasn't exactly hampered the racing or the level of competition in 2009, has it?

[I am evil Homer]

So BMW back tintop racing year-in, year-out (up to teams to bring the car to BTCC) and the get penalised with a spec first gear? Absolutely stupid.

[wedge]

I think this is utterly ludicrous. If TOCA wants to make the BTCC a spec front-wheel-drive formula, then it should just do so.

It will be in a couple of years.

What a complete and utter joke.

Definitely won't bother attending another meeting ever again when they start using the spec subframe.

[Clark Trent]

If TOCA carry on in the direction they seem to be heading we will end up with a single make championship. TOCA supplied engine, brakes, tyres, suspension, gearbox, etc. In the end they will supply the body, roll cage etc in the name of bringing the cost down.

Now thats a point. Where did all those SEATs go? Fit the new standard engine and we have a championship.

Or am I being too cynical?

[Allyc85]

It will be in a couple of years.

What a complete and utter joke.

Definitely won't bother attending another meeting ever again when they start using the spec subframe.

Why, what difference does that really make as you will never tell the difference as a spectator?

[Mark]

Why, what difference does that really make as you will never tell the difference as a spectator?

Well quite. Personally I wouldn't mind if it FWD was mandated, at least then you don't have all the issues surrounding weight etc.

[Daniel]

But it pisses off the purists who don't like to see one particular marque hobbled. BMW build the car that's best suited to being a touring car so why should they be so badly disadvantaged?

[Eurotech]

WHY DOES NO-ONE ON THIS FORUM REALISE THAT THESE CHANGES AND THE REVERSED GRIDS ETC. ARE THERE TO MAKE TH RACING MORE INTERESTING FOR YOU LOT, THE FANS.

I'M STARTING TO GET FED UP OF YOU LOT SO CALLED "FANS" CONSTANTLY SLAGGING OFF THE BTCC AND WTCC.

THE FACT THAT BMWs ARE BEING MADE TO HAVE A SPEC 1ST GEAR IS NOT TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WANT TO GIVE THEM A DISADVANTAGE, ITS TO MAKE THE RACING FAIR.

honestly.....

[Daniel]

WHY DOES NO-ONE ON THIS FORUM REALISE THAT THESE CHANGES AND THE REVERSED GRIDS ETC. ARE THERE TO MAKE TH RACING MORE INTERESTING FOR YOU LOT, THE FANS.

I'M STARTING TO GET FED UP OF YOU LOT SO CALLED "FANS" CONSTANTLY SLAGGING OFF THE BTCC AND WTCC.

THE FACT THAT BMWs ARE BEING MADE TO HAVE A SPEC 1ST GEAR IS NOT TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WANT TO GIVE THEM A DISADVANTAGE, ITS TO MAKE THE RACING FAIR.

honestly.....
PERHAPS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE FAKERY OF THE BTCC AND WTCC. PERHAPS SOME FANS JUST WANT TO SEE SOME TEAMS TAKE THE BEST CARS THEY CAN TO THE TRACK AND SEE WHO'S THE FASTEST?

Honestly........

[tisme]

WHY DOES NO-ONE ON THIS FORUM REALISE THAT THESE CHANGES AND THE REVERSED GRIDS ETC. ARE THERE TO MAKE TH RACING MORE INTERESTING FOR YOU LOT, THE FANS.

I'M STARTING TO GET FED UP OF YOU LOT SO CALLED "FANS" CONSTANTLY SLAGGING OFF THE BTCC AND WTCC.

THE FACT THAT BMWs ARE BEING MADE TO HAVE A SPEC 1ST GEAR IS NOT TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WANT TO GIVE THEM A DISADVANTAGE, ITS TO MAKE THE RACING FAIR.

honestly.....

AH! NOW I UNDERSTAND THIS POST!!!!!! http://btccpages.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=719640&postcount=39

honestly.....

[Allyc85]

PERHAPS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE FAKERY OF THE BTCC AND WTCC. PERHAPS SOME FANS JUST WANT TO SEE SOME TEAMS TAKE THE BEST CARS THEY CAN TO THE TRACK AND SEE WHO'S THE FASTEST?

Honestly........

But if people dont like it, dont bother watch it let alone waste your time commenting on it. The figures show theres plenty of people that do like it as it is and just want entertainment.

[Eurotech]

PERHAPS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE FAKERY OF THE BTCC AND WTCC. PERHAPS SOME FANS JUST WANT TO SEE SOME TEAMS TAKE THE BEST CARS THEY CAN TO THE TRACK AND SEE WHO'S THE FASTEST?

Honestly........
Fakery? what, compared to formula 1? are you sure you don't want to reconsider that post. If you don't like Touring Cars, why do you bother wasting your time on even posting on this forum?


AH! NOW I UNDERSTAND THIS POST!!!!!! http://btccpages.motorsportforum.com...0&postcount=39 (http://btccpages.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=719640&postcount=39)

honestly.......

that was a low hit

oh well, at least I seem to have started a trend.

[martinbalmer]

The problem is that production road cars are all different and not governed by a set of motorsport rules defining driving wheels, shape, engine size, etc, etc. When car manufactures designed the cars, they didn't design them for touring car racing, they designed them for use on the public road. Outside of motorsport there is more to life than just handling and power.

If the cars were designed to race from the ground up, they would not be designed to accommodate the kids and shopping...

Some car designs make them better in some areas of racing than other cars. A purest wants to see the car which best manages its strengths and weaknesses win the race.

This can go two ways. A game of cat and mouse, where different cars are stronger at different parts of the circuit, different circuits and different weather conditions.

Or, when a car is very good, it can mean one car dominates.

I would not say that one car has dominated the BTCC this year though.

The trouble with trying to level the playing field is that no one can ever be sure that they have it right. And whoever is not winning has an excuse to start whining, calling for a rule change or break.

Whatever the outcome, someone somewhere is not going to be happy.

It seems we either have a one-make championship, a set of identical machines using different body shells, or - if we're not careful - a set of complicated rule adjustments on a per-race per-car basis.

Whatever they choose to do, I'll watch it until the day I stop enjoying it. The truth is, deep down, providing there is no blatant meddling to fix results or pre-planned choreography, and as long as I see a good race, I don't really care how we get there!

Anyway, there is a lot of rambling that got no where... :p :

[wedge]

In the pursuit of fairness and cost reduction BTCC will be a homogonised series with little technical meaning.

BTCC will become 2L FWD version of NASCAR, DTM, FIA GT etc

[Daniel]

Fakery? what, compared to formula 1? are you sure you don't want to reconsider that post. If you don't like Touring Cars, why do you bother wasting your time on even posting on this forum?

Apples and oranges. F1 is a completely different series to touring cars because for one F1 cars aren't production based and all the cars share the same basic layout.

[Eurotech]

Apples and oranges. F1 is a completely different series to touring cars because for one F1 cars aren't production based and all the cars share the same basic layout.
yes I agree with this but what I meant was "stop whining about the BTCC cos look how much worse it could be" Formula 1 is a sport based 90% on how much money you have not what drivers you have or even what car you have.

The 10% is Toyota who manage to be crap no matter how much money they have....

[rwdvectra]

WHY DOES NO-ONE ON THIS FORUM REALISE THAT THESE CHANGES AND THE REVERSED GRIDS ETC. ARE THERE TO MAKE TH RACING MORE INTERESTING FOR YOU LOT, THE FANS.

I'M STARTING TO GET FED UP OF YOU LOT SO CALLED "FANS" CONSTANTLY SLAGGING OFF THE BTCC AND WTCC.

THE FACT THAT BMWs ARE BEING MADE TO HAVE A SPEC 1ST GEAR IS NOT TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WANT TO GIVE THEM A DISADVANTAGE, ITS TO MAKE THE RACING FAIR.

honestly.....


Just because you don't like the way something is going doesn't mean your not a fan imo. I can't stand some features (reverse grids being the main one) of the championship but doesn't make me less of a fan.

Why should racing be fair? If someone's got a better designed car or a car more suited to racing then it's not there fault.

Should Usain Bolt run with lead weights so the rest of the field can keep up and make it more fair :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Just because you don't like the way something is going doesn't mean your not a fan imo. I can't stand some features (reverse grids being the main one) of the championship but doesn't make me less of a fan.

Why should racing be fair? If someone's got a better designed car or a car more suited to racing then it's not there fault.

Should Usain Bolt run with lead weights so the rest of the field can keep up and make it more fair :rolleyes:
You're right, it seems that black people are inherently better than white people at running so we should ballast them to make it fair :)

When you start ballasting cars it ceases to be a sport and becomes just a game.

[charles1]

Thank you for sharing the site with all. The site is really nice. Please keep sharing more and more.

Have a nice day