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Rollo
11th November 2009, 01:46
The way I figure it, based on the order of the 2009 season and the order in which the applications were received by the FIA, the entry numbers for 2010 should be thus:

1 2 - Brawn GP
3 4 - Red Bull Racing
5 6 - McLaren
7 8 - Ferrari
14 15 - Williams
16 17 - Renault (maybe?)
18 19 - Force India
20 21 - Toro Rosso
22 23 - US F1
24 25 - Campos
26 27 - Manor
28 29 - Lotus
30 31 - Qadbak

However, regulation 21 of the FIA Sporting Code seems to be about the only thing which addresses what numbers must appear on the cars.

What I'm wondering, is if someone wanted to either take up the vacated spaces (say Lotus taking up 11 & 12) or even someone running completely out of order (like Brawn running 1 & 722) would the FIA have a problem with this? Would Ferrari want to run something as lowly as 7 & 8 when they could for instance take back 27 & 28 by force?

Koz
11th November 2009, 03:19
I think it depends if the remaining teams consent or not. Like FI did when Honda pulled out.

V12
11th November 2009, 10:15
My best guess:

1 2 Brawn*
3 4 Red Bull
5 6 McLaren
7 8 Ferrari
9 10 Williams
11 12 Renault **
14 15 Force India
16 17 Toro Rosso
18 19 Campos
20 21 Manor
22 23 USF1
24 25 Lotus
26 27 Sauber

* Assuming Button resigns for next year, if he doesn't then the team he signs for will get 1 2, with Brawn 3 4, etc, like when Schumacher first went to Ferrari, Hill to Arrows, Alonso to McLaren.

** Assuming they stay. If they quit before the official entry list is published, the teams below will all move up, otherwise, there'll probably be a gap.

Another thing, if the Toyota team is revived under a new name, Brawn-style, probably directly swap them with Sauber. They should take 9 10 but the FIA set a precedent with putting Brawn to the back this year when they really should have had Honda's 18 19.

This is why I'm putting Sauber/Qzhfdfgffggqqqk to the back too, plus the fact they didn't sign the CA so are officially considered a "new team" regardless of what BMW did in 2009.

The gap this year (18 19) was mainly down to the lateness of the FIA shoving Brawn to the back, they originally wanted to give Force India 18 19 and Brawn 20 21, but FI had already done promotional material etc. with 20 21 on their cars and didn't want the expense and inconvenience of changing it at the last minute, so Brawn were given 22 23. So I doubt we'll see the gaps in Rollo's list, as cool as it would be to see F1 car numbers in the 30s again(!)

Saint Devote
11th November 2009, 10:59
Too many changes - the only car that ought to change are the swapping of numbers between the previous and new world champion - Button to number 1 and teammate number 2, with Hamilton to number 22 and his teammate number 23.

The rest should all remain the same other than the changes for the new season.

Consistency is important.

millencolin
11th November 2009, 12:11
I still believe f1 shoud revert back to the old days, where the numbers can stay with a team/driver. Mansell no5. etc. It makes the teams much easier to use in pr. nascar are the kings at that, everyone knows who the number 3 belongs to in nascar

Mark
11th November 2009, 13:42
I still believe f1 shoud revert back to the old days, where the numbers can stay with a team/driver. Mansell no5. etc. It makes the teams much easier to use in pr. nascar are the kings at that, everyone knows who the number 3 belongs to in nascar

I don't think you'll get much argument there really!

I think at the start of the season they should allocate all the existing teams numbers, starting from 3&4 and let the teams choose which numbers they would like, in order of constructors championship position. Then when those are chosen, thats the numbers they keep, forever!

If they have the world champion driving for them, then they have 1&2, after the No. 1 goes to another team they revert back to their 'historic' numbers. Note: this is different to how it used to work where the team that was taking the No.1 effectively swapped numbers with the team that was giving it up.

Numbers aren't important these days, they aren't even on the TV graphics.

V12
11th November 2009, 14:35
I'd like to see a return to the 1974-1995 system, it was unique to F1 and it worked. Obviously it would be nice for the numbers to be a bit bigger and on the car graphics as well.

What I WOULDN'T want to see is a NASCAR/MotoGP style system where a number just becomes a sort of brand tied to a team/driver/rider like Dale Earnhardt carrying number 3 or Valentino Rossi 46 even when they are/were the reigning champion(!!!)

Consistency is important but a bit of change is good too, the old F1 system had the best of both worlds.

I actually liked the old pre-1996 CART system too where numbers 1-12 were reserved for the top 12 entrants in the previous year's championship, but after that there were easily-identifiable numbers like Foyt's 14, Walker's 15, Bettenhausen's 16, Patrick's 20 etc. Again, best of both worlds.

The old F1 system also provided a valuable link to a period of the sport's history. I remember when I first started watching properly in 1992, I had a conversation with one of my dad's friends who was a lifelong fan, I remember saying something like "How come Tyrrell have 3 and 4 and Mansell only has 5 when he nearly won the championship last year and Tyrrell are crap?" (I was 9 years old btw), and he preceded to tell me the story about the Jackie Stewart era that I previously didn't know about, with the accompanying explanation of the numbering-swap system. Followed by a brief word on Williams' early rise from new entrant to champion that resulted in Ferrari's 27 and 28.

Rollo
11th November 2009, 22:37
What I WOULDN'T want to see is a NASCAR/MotoGP style system where a number just becomes a sort of brand tied to a team/driver/rider like Dale Earnhardt carrying number 3 or Valentino Rossi 46 even when they are/were the reigning champion(!!!)


Why not?

Since Formula One is very much a marketing exercise, then looking to exploit this is surely a good idea? NASCAR of all motorsports promotes tribalism and loyalty amongst race fans and this is certainly a factor.

Besides which some drivers are readily identifiable by their number:
Dale Earnhardt 3, Valentino Rossi 46, Peter Brock 05, Barry Sheene 7, Kevin Schwantz 34, Joey Dunlop 3, and when it comes down to it Mansell Red 5 and Damon Hill 0.

To take the discussion in that direction, the numbers I'd like to see on the cars would be:

1 722 - Brawn GP
0 5 - Williams
7 8 - McLaren
11 12 - Lotus
15 16 - Renault
17 76 - US F1
26 50 - Force India
27 28 - Ferrari
61 62 - Sauber (rename the team back again, it's the same people)
82 83 - Red Bull Racing
84 85 - Toro Rosso

As for Manor and Campos, then I'm not entirely sure as I don't know enough about their traditions and what not. Whatever the case there really is an uncapped opportunity for a marketing bonanza to be had.


Obviously it would be nice for the numbers to be a bit bigger and on the car graphics as well.

Yes please! :up: If you're in the stands and trying to see a little flash go past, it can be tedious. A big number on the end plate of the rear wing at least 6 inches tall would be ideal.

V12
11th November 2009, 22:57
Why not?

Because I don't like the thought that:


Formula One is very much a marketing exercise

What's great about Mansell's Red 5 and Hill's 0 was that they didn't choose those numbers, the numbers found them :)

That's why if I had a choice I'd go back to the 1974-95 system, as I said it was the best of both worlds :)

Rollo
11th November 2009, 23:46
What's great about Mansell's Red 5 and Hill's 0 was that they didn't choose those numbers, the numbers found them :)

Mansell didn't get "Red 5" until the fifth race of 1985 in Canada, when it was done at the suggestion of none other than Murray Walker. (Murray touched briefly on this in his autobiography)

Hawkmoon
12th November 2009, 07:10
I would like the numbers to go this way:

Ferrari - 27 & 28 - those numbers are part of the Ferrari mythos
McLaren - 7 & 8 - I'm not so sure about this one. Those numbers don't automatically say "McLaren" to me but I can't think of an alternative
Williams - 5 & 6 - Mansell, Piquet, Canon, Honda, the classic Williams years
Renault - 14 & 15 - even though Renault won their first title with 5 & 6 it's the yellow and black cars of the '80s that spring to mind when I think of the Reggie
Lotus - 11 & 12 - even though this isn't really Lotus maybe their old numbers can channel a bit of Colin Chapman?
Brawn - 3/4 or 22/23 - I think they could take Tyrrell's old numbers as they were the team's first incarnation or they could take 22/23 to mark the fact that they were champions in their first year as Brawn
Force India - 32 & 33 (I think) - The numbers worn by Jordan on those beautiful 1991 7-Up green cars

The rest can pick any numbers they like and hopefully build a history around them.

The champion's team wears 1 & 2 with the his team's previous numbers remaining idle. Nobody but Ferrari should ever carry 27/28 again.

Mark
12th November 2009, 08:29
The problem with 27/28 is that it's out of sequence with the rest!

12th November 2009, 09:03
Renault - 14 & 15 - even though Renault won their first title with 5 & 6 it's the yellow and black cars of the '80s that spring to mind when I think of the Reggie

Renault's numbers were 15 & 16.

12th November 2009, 09:08
I would like the numbers to go this way:

Ferrari - 27 & 28 - those numbers are part of the Ferrari mythos
McLaren - 7 & 8 - I'm not so sure about this one. Those numbers don't automatically say "McLaren" to me but I can't think of an alternative
Williams - 5 & 6 - Mansell, Piquet, Canon, Honda, the classic Williams years
Renault - 14 & 15 - even though Renault won their first title with 5 & 6 it's the yellow and black cars of the '80s that spring to mind when I think of the Reggie
Lotus - 11 & 12 - even though this isn't really Lotus maybe their old numbers can channel a bit of Colin Chapman?
Brawn - 3/4 or 22/23 - I think they could take Tyrrell's old numbers as they were the team's first incarnation or they could take 22/23 to mark the fact that they were champions in their first year as Brawn
Force India - 32 & 33 (I think) - The numbers worn by Jordan on those beautiful 1991 7-Up green cars

The rest can pick any numbers they like and hopefully build a history around them.

The champion's team wears 1 & 2 with the his team's previous numbers remaining idle. Nobody but Ferrari should ever carry 27/28 again.

27 is more a Williams number though, it was them who brought it to the fore and their 1980 championship victory is the reason why Gilles Villenueve had the 27 on his car.

Before that, the number 27 had no relevance to Ferrari.

7 & 8 were the numbers of the early Ron Dennis era, so do have a Mclaren link.

11 & 12 were only really Lotus numbers after 1979....the least successful period in the history of the team.

Mark
12th November 2009, 10:52
Which is why if I were John Todt I would bring in a rule saying at least half of the side panel of the back wing should be the car number, and it should be at least a foot tall on the front nose cone.

Then you can allocate numbers on a first come, first served basis, if Ferrari want 27 & 28, they can have it, if they happen to want 67 & 68 well that's fine too. Then the next teams gets a choice according to this years finishing positions.

Then they keep the numbers forever .. unless a team withdraws from the championship then the numbers will become available, and any team which wants to take them on could have them if they do desired.

Sadly I don't see anything like this happening!

Sonic
12th November 2009, 11:38
Still no number 13 though ;)

Personally I would like numbers to mean something to the driver or team.

DazzlaF1
12th November 2009, 19:02
The problem with 27/28 is that it's out of sequence with the rest!

It was'nt at the time, as I remember 14 was reserved for a team running a 1 car operation for the season.

I would have it like this

1 & 2 - Brawn
3 & 4 - Red Bull
5 & 6 - Williams (It works, Mansell's Red 5 and the memories it brings with it)
7 & 8 - McLaren (these were their traditional numbers from 1978 onwards bar the odd world championship year and running Ferrari's 27 & 28 in 1990)
9 & 10 - USF1 (The current numbers of the most successful open wheeled team of recent years in the states, Target Chip Ganassi)
11 & 12 - Lotus (Their old numbers from 1980-1994, bar 1988)
15 & 16 - Renault (their traditional numbers, i think they used them when they competed at Le Mans as well)
19 & 20 - Campos (When Senna made his F1 debut, for Toleman, he raced in number 19, would be fitting for Bruno Senna to do the same)
21 & 22 - Manor (If renamed Virgin, they would get to keep Jenson's number that they sponsored last season)
23 & 24 - Toro Rosso (Using Minardi's old traditional numbers)
27 & 28 - Ferrari (When you think Ferrari, you think 27 and 28)
29 & 30 - Qadbak / Sauber (The old Sauber F1 numbers from 1993-95)
31 & 32 - Force India (Jordan's old numbers from 1991)

maximilian
12th November 2009, 19:18
It was'nt at the time, as I remember 14 was reserved for a team running a 1 car operation for the season.

I would have it like this

1 & 2 - Brawn
3 & 4 - Red Bull
5 & 6 - Williams (It works, Mansell's Red 5 and the memories it brings with it)
7 & 8 - McLaren (these were their traditional numbers from 1978 onwards bar the odd world championship year and running Ferrari's 27 & 28 in 1990)
9 & 10 - USF1 (The current numbers of the most successful open wheeled team of recent years in the states, Target Chip Ganassi)
11 & 12 - Lotus (Their old numbers from 1980-1994, bar 1988)
15 & 16 - Renault (their traditional numbers, i think they used them when they competed at Le Mans as well)
19 & 20 - Campos (When Senna made his F1 debut, for Toleman, he raced in number 19, would be fitting for Bruno Senna to do the same)
21 & 22 - Manor (If renamed Virgin, they would get to keep Jenson's number that they sponsored last season)
23 & 24 - Toro Rosso (Using Minardi's old traditional numbers)
27 & 28 - Ferrari (When you think Ferrari, you think 27 and 28)
29 & 30 - Qadbak / Sauber (The old Sauber F1 numbers from 1993-95)
31 & 32 - Force India (Jordan's old numbers from 1991)

VERY nice! Well thought out, and I agree on all counts! I wish the responsible parties would get a clue. Seems like MOST fans really want the old numbering system back. I know I do! :s mokin:

For the record, I would support Brawn's permanent claim on numbers 3 and 4 once they're no longer champions.

Rollo
12th November 2009, 22:55
Before that, the number 27 had no relevance to Ferrari.

The address that you go to, to take a tour of the Ferrari factory in Maranello is 27 Viale Alfredo Dino Ferrari. It's a small sort of black arched door, set into a sort of stucco finished wall.
The Gallery and museum is a little way down the street at No.43.

I think I paid about €10 to go on the tour at the time, but it's probably a little more than that now.

K-Pu
12th November 2009, 23:39
What IŽd like to see again is a 0-car. Avobe all other important numbers, the 0 is my favourite, and BTW we have a 0-Williams here in Valladolid :)

V12
13th November 2009, 01:32
What IŽd like to see again is a 0-car. Avobe all other important numbers, the 0 is my favourite, and BTW we have a 0-Williams here in Valladolid :)

In which case you need a reigning world champion to retire :)

Rollo
13th November 2009, 02:37
In which case you need a reigning world champion to retire :)

Regulation 21 of the FIA Sporting Code never addresses that. Nor does it say how the numbers are allocated either. I imagine it would be possible to put any dang number you wanted on your cars provided it got approval, hence if I was Mercedes I'd want the Brawns to be numbered 658 and 722.

Mark
13th November 2009, 08:38
1 & 2 - Brawn
3 & 4 - Red Bull
5 & 6 - Williams (It works, Mansell's Red 5 and the memories it brings with it)
7 & 8 - McLaren (these were their traditional numbers from 1978 onwards bar the odd world championship year and running Ferrari's 27 & 28 in 1990)
9 & 10 - USF1 (The current numbers of the most successful open wheeled team of recent years in the states, Target Chip Ganassi)
11 & 12 - Lotus (Their old numbers from 1980-1994, bar 1988)
15 & 16 - Renault (their traditional numbers, i think they used them when they competed at Le Mans as well)
19 & 20 - Campos (When Senna made his F1 debut, for Toleman, he raced in number 19, would be fitting for Bruno Senna to do the same)
21 & 22 - Manor (If renamed Virgin, they would get to keep Jenson's number that they sponsored last season)
23 & 24 - Toro Rosso (Using Minardi's old traditional numbers)
27 & 28 - Ferrari (When you think Ferrari, you think 27 and 28)
29 & 30 - Qadbak / Sauber (The old Sauber F1 numbers from 1993-95)
31 & 32 - Force India (Jordan's old numbers from 1991)

What numbers do you propose for Brawn when they are no longer running the world champion? Is this what 17&18 was left open for?

Hawkmoon
13th November 2009, 10:16
Renault's numbers were 15 & 16.

Close enough. :)


27 is more a Williams number though, it was them who brought it to the fore and their 1980 championship victory is the reason why Gilles Villenueve had the 27 on his car.

Before that, the number 27 had no relevance to Ferrari.

Ask most Formula 1 fans which numbers belong to Ferrari and they'll say 27 and 28. I know Alan Jones won more races with that number than any other driver but it doesn't really matter. Gilles started the afinity for it and Alesi cemented the bond. For me, 27 belongs on a scarlet Ferrari and no other car.


7 & 8 were the numbers of the early Ron Dennis era, so do have a Mclaren link.

I agree there's a link there but they don't seem as linked to McLaren as 27 does to Ferrari or 5 does to Williams. If anything, 1 & 2 feel more like McLaren numbers to me, much as it pains me to admit it.


11 & 12 were only really Lotus numbers after 1979....the least successful period in the history of the team.

Senna in the JPS Lotus and then the Camel-yellow cars that followed are why I think of those numbers when I think of Lotus.

All of the above come from the fact that I started watching F1 in the '80s. The numbers bounced around too much prior to that gain a link to any driver or team. Once they stopped swapping numbers they started being an identifiable part of the teams. I will always associate 3 and 4 with Tyrrell even though the team was a shadow of it's former self when it carried those numbers.

Sonic
13th November 2009, 12:37
I guess that's it, isn't it? The numbers the teams held when each of us first started watching F1 are the ones we'd like to see re-established. I became really interested in the early 90's, so Williams 5 & 6 seems natural to me, as does Ferrari 27 & 28 and McLaren 7 & 8.

Ranger
13th November 2009, 13:04
I would have:

Manor - 3 & 4
Williams - 5 & 6 (1980's numeration)
McLaren - 7 & 8 (1980's numbers when they weren't winning everything else)
Force India - 9 & 10
Lotus - 11 & 12 (1980's again)
Red Bull - 14 & 15 (Red Bull have had these numbers four out of the five years they've competed)
STR - 17 & 18
Renault - 19 & 20 (From Benetton numbers)
Brawn - 21 & 22 (As long as they had #22 I suppose)
USF1 - 23 & 24
Campos - 25 & 26
Ferrari - 27 & 28 (Obvious)

V12
13th November 2009, 14:38
I'd like them, with the influx of teams for next season, to set the numbers the way they normally do (Drivers Champion team, then Constructors Championship order, then all the new teams in whatever order they see fit), then stick to those apart from the various swaps for champion.

Yes it's nice to think of Williams 5/6, McLaren 7/8, Lotus 11/12, Ferrari 27/28 etc. but those numbers were the result of a chain reaction of events that started in 1974, when the numbers were set from 1973 championship order: Lotus, Tyrrell, McLaren, Brabham, March, Ferrari, BRM, Shadow, Surtees, Williams, Ensign. With new constructors like Hesketh and Hill next up.

That chain was broken in 1996 and there's nothing we can do about it now, it's time to make some new numerological history :)

V12
13th November 2009, 14:50
OK, just for a bit of fun, I'm going to see how the numbers would have turned out (with a bit of artistic licence), if the order of merit system for 1996 was never adopted:

*s indicate where I've decided to arbitrarily fill in the gaps a bit with teams from the end.

1996:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 Tyrrell
5 6 Williams
7 8 McLaren
9 10 Footwork
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber*
21 22 Forti
23 24 Minardi
25 26 Ligier
27 28 Benetton

1997:
1 2 Arrows
3 4 Tyrrell
5 6 Williams
7 8 McLaren
9 10 Ferrari
11 12 Benetton*
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
23 24 Minardi
25 26 Prost
27 28 Stewart
29 30 Lola

1998:
1 2 Williams
3 4 Tyrrell
5 6 Arrows
7 8 McLaren
9 10 Ferrari
11 12 Benetton
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi*
21 22 Stewart*
25 26 Prost

1999:
1 2 McLaren
3 4 BAR
5 6 Arrows
7 8 Williams
9 10 Ferrari
11 12 Benetton
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Stewart
25 26 Prost

2000:
1 2 McLaren
3 4 BAR
5 6 Arrows
7 8 Williams
9 10 Ferrari
11 12 Benetton
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Jaguar
25 26 Prost

2001:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 BAR
5 6 Arrows
7 8 Williams
9 10 McLaren
11 12 Benetton
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Jaguar
25 26 Prost

2002:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 BAR
5 6 Arrows
7 8 Williams
9 10 McLaren
11 12 Renault
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Jaguar
23 24 Toyota

2003:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 BAR
5 6 Toyota*
7 8 Williams
9 10 McLaren
11 12 Renault
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Jaguar

2004:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 BAR
5 6 Toyota
7 8 Williams
9 10 McLaren
11 12 Renault
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Jaguar

2005:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 BAR
5 6 Toyota
7 8 Williams
9 10 McLaren
11 12 Renault
14 15 Jordan
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Minardi
21 22 Red Bull

2006:
1 2 Renault
3 4 Honda
5 6 Toyota
7 8 Williams
9 10 McLaren
11 12 Ferrari
14 15 Midland
16 17 BMW
19 20 Toro Rosso
21 22 Red Bull
23 24 Super Aguri

2007:
1 2 McLaren
3 4 Honda
5 6 Toyota
7 8 Williams
9 10 Renault
11 12 Ferrari
14 15 Spyker
16 17 BMW
19 20 Toro Rosso
21 22 Red Bull
23 24 Super Aguri

2008:
1 2 Ferrari
3 4 Honda
5 6 Toyota
7 8 Williams
9 10 Renault
11 12 McLaren
14 15 Force India
16 17 BMW
19 20 Toro Rosso
21 22 Red Bull
23 24 Super Aguri

2009:
1 2 McLaren
3 4 Brawn
5 6 Toyota
7 8 Williams
9 10 Renault
11 12 Ferrari
14 15 Force India
16 17 BMW
19 20 Toro Rosso
21 22 Red Bull

2010:
1 2 Brawn
3 4 McLaren
5 6 Red Bull*
7 8 Williams
9 10 Renault
11 12 Ferrari
14 15 Force India
16 17 Sauber
19 20 Toro Rosso
21 22 Campos
23 24 Manor
25 26 USF1
27 28 Lotus

There we go :) If only I could make a way to swap Ferrari and Lotus hey ;)

Sonic
13th November 2009, 16:37
Seriously V12, do you not have job?! ;)

UltimateDanGTR
13th November 2009, 17:46
wow V12, you have ALOT of time on your hands. have you ever visited that place called 'the outside world'? :D

although, very well constructed all the same, and intriging for sure!

V12
13th November 2009, 19:13
Slow day in the office ;)

UltimateDanGTR
14th November 2009, 07:54
Slow day in the office ;)

:D that explains all!

Rollo
16th November 2009, 22:00
hence if I was Mercedes I'd want the Brawns to be numbered 658 and 722.
... addenda:

If I was Mercedes I'd want the Mercedes to be numbered 658 and 722.

If Button goes to McLaren next year, then the teams will be entitled to:

1 2 - McLaren
3 4 - Red Bull Racing
5 6 - Ferrari
11 12 - Williams
14 15 - Renault (maybe?)
16 17 - Force India
18 19 - Toro Rosso
20 21 - US F1
22 23 - Campos
24 25 - Manor
26 27 - Lotus
28 29 - Qadbak
30 31 - Mercedes

Mercedes would be considered a new entrant and therefore be shuffled to the end of the queue. I also suspect that the FIA are looking to extract another $48 million in entrance fees from MB if they possibly can.

Mark
17th November 2009, 09:10
Mercedes would be considered a new entrant and therefore be shuffled to the end of the queue. I also suspect that the FIA are looking to extract another $48 million in entrance fees from MB if they possibly can.

Is Mercedes a new entrant? I would have thought it would just be a change of name? Hence Mercedes would be running 3 & 4.

V12
17th November 2009, 09:31
Brawn being moved to the back last year was an exceptional circumstance due to the lateness of the change and all the ugly politics that were swilling round at the time. For instance when Jaguar took over Stewart they kept 7 and 8, when Red Bull took over Jaguar they kept the 14 and 15. Mercedes will 99% certain have 3 and 4 next year, unless by some miracle Button stays and they will have 1 and 2.

And the numbers were retained as Jordan went through god knows how many changes of name before becoming Force India

The only thing that might happen next year is Sauber being shunted to the back rather than getting BMW's numbers because of the whole not signing Concorde Agreement/getting in as a reserve thing. Again, politics.


I also suspect that the FIA are looking to extract another $48 million in entrance fees from MB if they possibly can.

I thought that ridiculous rule was (thankfully) dropped for this year? If not, how did the new teams afford that? The whole craze of buying existing teams rather than setting up their own was (partly) because of the need to avoid paying this bond. I may be wrong but I think only Toyota ever did. Oh and Super Aguri probably, via Honda.

Ranger
17th November 2009, 10:54
OK take two...

McLaren:
1. Button
2. Hamilton

Mercedes:
3. Rosberg
4. Heidfeld

Red Bull:
5. Vettel
6. Webber

Ferrari:
7. Alonso
8. Massa

Williams:
9. Barrichello
10. Hulkenberg

Renault:
11. Kubica
12. ???

Force India:
14. Sutil
15. Liuzzi

STR:
16. Buemi
17. Alguersuari

USF1:
18. ???
19. ???

Campos:
20. Senna
21. ???

Manor:
22. Glock
23. ???

Lotus:
24. Trulli?
25.

ShiftingGears
17th November 2009, 10:57
If Alguersuari doesn't improve I wouldn't be surprised if STR shoved Ricciardo in the seat after halfway through the season.

maximilian
17th November 2009, 13:57
If Alguersuari doesn't improve I wouldn't be surprised if STR shoved Ricciardo in the seat after halfway through the season.
MUCH better choice! The kid has 100 times more talent than Algaeboy. No need to wait for halfway during the season, do it NOW! :p :

woody2goody
17th November 2009, 15:30
MUCH better choice! The kid has 100 times more talent than Algaeboy. No need to wait for halfway during the season, do it NOW! :p :

Jaime did a good job, do't see what people are complaining about. He's so young, like Buemi. Give him a couple of years and he'll be pretty useful.