McLaren tops Ferrari for 3rd

[veeten]

By one point, Mclaren takes 3rd in the WCC over Ferrari, 71-70.

[Dave B]

Not good enough for either, really, especially considering they were the only consistent KERS users.

One started the season with a dismal car and, to their credit improved it massively; the other was unlucky to lose a driver to injury but can only blame themselves for poor contingency planning.

You have to credit Brawn and Red Bull for doing a sterling job, but the two Big Boys need to pull their socks up for 2010.

[UltimateDanGTR]

agreed Dave. at least Macca beat ferrari for the first time since 2005-so there is something for macca fans to be happy about! (although if Massa had been there we would have had a very different story)

[ioan]

That pretty much sums up Ferrari's dismal season.

[keysersoze]

When Kovalainen moves from the back row to beating Kimi, you know just how bad the Ferrari is.

[F1boat]

And Mercedes teams are first and third!

[DexDexter]

When Kovalainen moves from the back row to beating Kimi, you know just how bad the Ferrari is.

True, and when was the last time the other Ferrari scored points? It was before Massa's accident. Dysmal year.

[christophulus]

McLaren beats Ferrari into third despite none of the cars finishing in the points. Bad year from both, and I don't think Hamilton even won the much-sought after "Second Half of the Year Championship" that Martin Whitmarsh invented :rolleyes:

They'll both be right at the front next year, no doubt. Hopefully though it won't just be back to McLaren v Ferrari, I'd love to see Brawn, Red Bull (and Williams :) ) fighting for wins!

[jens]

Besides the loss of Massa, the cock-ups in the beginning of the season are what probably have cost Ferrari that P3.

[wedge]

Ferrari did very little to develop this year's car over the summer and their main efforts were on next year.

[truefan72]

I'll take 3rd in the constructors

t is still a very good spot considering that the Brwans had effectively wrapped up that title in Turkey and that the RBR's had two drivers finishing high in the points consistently. What Mclaren did was an outstanding comeback for a team that looked DOA in Australia. As to ferrari finishing 4th, thats' Kimi's gift to team.

Considering where both teams where at the start of the year, you would have thought Toyota and Williams would have easily been ahead of them, especially toyota.

[F1boat]

Considering where both teams where at the start of the year, you would have thought Toyota and Williams would have easily been ahead of them, especially toyota.

I am still quite shocked that BMW overtook Williams. Quite humiliating, IMO.

[ioan]

Besides the loss of Massa, the cock-ups in the beginning of the season are what probably have cost Ferrari that P3.

If they had Felipe for the 2nd half of the season Ferrari would have probably hold 3rd place by a huge margin over McLaren, so no, the cock-ups at the beginning of the season weren't the decisive factor over having only one driver for half a season.

[ioan]

I am still quite shocked that BMW overtook Williams. Quite humiliating, IMO.

That's good news.

[BeansBeansBeans]

If they had Felipe for the 2nd half of the season Ferrari would have probably hold 3rd place by a huge margin over McLaren, so no, the cock-ups at the beginning of the season weren't the decisive factor over having only one driver for half a season.

Totally.

If Ferrari had replaced Massa with a decent driver, or if Massa hadn't been injured in the first place, it is reasonable to assume that Ferrari would've comfortably beaten McLaren to 3rd.

[truefan72]

I am still quite shocked that BMW overtook Williams. Quite humiliating, IMO.

which seems all the more baffling why they would exit the sport. The nutters at BMW HQ had to realize that it is a year long racing series and not some stock portfolio to be measured quarterly. That decision might have come right from the top lead by folks who could care less about racing.

I'd be interested to know if BMW racing lost money on their F1 team in 2009. They did rack up some decent points by seasons end, which means a higher payout from F1.

To me their exit announcement was a complete shock and seemed to come out of nowhere.

[truefan72]

Totally.

If Ferrari had replaced Massa with a decent driver, or if Massa hadn't been injured in the first place, it is reasonable to assume that Ferrari would've comfortably beaten McLaren to 3rd.

exactly,

I know the car was difficult to drive, but Bader and fisi were not the answer.

i would have put Sato, Klien or Davidson in that car, all drivers adept at driving complicated cars. :|

[Hawkmoon]

In fairness to Ferrari, Fisichella's drive at Spa pointed to him being reasonably successful in the Ferrari. I don't think anybody really expected him to score no points in 4 races. Sure, the Badoer decision was a bad one but that also came after their first choice (Schumi) pulled out.

I think their lack of a young driver program is where they deserve most criticism. Most of the teams can call on a young, hungry driver to step in at a moments notice. Ferrari have no such driver available to them. That meant that they were effectively a 1 car team for the last seven races of the season and it's why they will wear numbers 7 & 8 next year and not 5 & 6.

[DexDexter]

Besides the loss of Massa, the cock-ups in the beginning of the season are what probably have cost Ferrari that P3.

Badoer and Fisi failing to score ONE sixth place in 7 races was the reason they lost it. Embarrassing.

[Mark]

How does the constructors championship position thing work when a team leaves the sport. As I understand it the monies are paid in installments in the following season. Presumably whoever takes over the franchise of that team will get the cash? Thus increasing the potential sale price.

[ioan]

exactly,

I know the car was difficult to drive, but Bader and fisi were not the answer.

i would have put Sato, Klien or Davidson in that car, all drivers adept at driving complicated cars. :|

Fisi is known to deal well with difficult cars, so I'm not sure about this. It's just that when 20 cars are within 1 - 1.5 seconds being 0.5 of the pace means you get no points at all.

[truefan72]

Fisi is known to deal well with difficult cars, so I'm not sure about this. It's just that when 20 cars are within 1 - 1.5 seconds being 0.5 of the pace means you get no points at all.

I hear you but badoer was simply not competent while fisi seemed just happy to be there initially and by the time his "awe shucks" faze ended, he simply could not step up his game and adapt to this car.

To me it just makes Kobayashi that more impressive...and I dare say he might have done a much better job in that Ferrari, while gaining a huge publicity of Ferrari at the same time. Anyway hindsight is 20:20 and I will admit that at the time i thought Fisi would bring that car into the points more often than not.

Maybe the pressure of an Italian driving the Ferrari and expected to podium that car might have been too much to handle. and then Monza being his first race? It might have been all too much for him.

[Saint Devote]

Driving these cars - and I am not excusing either Badoer or Fisichella - became significantly more complex because of the control tyres.

I am not familiar with the Ferrari drivers driving preferences as I am with how Jense likes his cars, but the error was Ferrari management.

It is clear that Fisichella is no slouch in a car that suits him and if he is the mood on the day. But the car was developed to the style of Massa rather than Raikkonen and it showed when the Brazilian was no longer there - the car began to trend towards Kimi.

But then following Spa development was effectively stopped.

So I think Ferrari ought to have selected a driver whose driving preference matched Massa's closely rather than the traditional back-up driver.

Fisichella ought to have been withdrawn from Yas Marina in disgrace. Last on the grid and over 1.5 seconds slower than Kimi. Not acceptable. Worst Ferrari driver ever in my view!

[Koz]

Saint, I think Ferrari knew that their car was so bad to the point that nothing could be salvaged this season.

Badoer was bad, so they took Fisi.

They wanted an italian guy in the seat. At the end of the day it didn't really matter too much who he was. Their only fault here was not getting a young guy and giving him a chance.

Driving style aside it just shows how talented a driver Kimi is.

[stevie_gerrard]

Would have been interesting to see how close it would have been if Ferrari had Massa driving all season. Losing him was a big blow to their constructor amibitions. They did well without him considering.

[Roamy]

WoW it is really great being the 2nd loser instead of the 3rd loser. But I do think something was learned here. It appears that you can't just hop into a car and immediately match the experience driver. I think some cars are more drivable than others. The Ferrari seems to be a difficult child. It was probably part of MS's decision not to return. I think he learned in the test that he would be pretty far back of Kimi should he return. With the difficulty of the drivability of the car I can understand dumping Kimi for Alonso.