Why are half the people on the F1 forum shown as banned?

[savage86]

Some kind of bug?

[Roamy]

Now Whatd you say to piss me off this time BABY !!!!!

[Easy Drifter]

A thread got completely off topic. Pino warned everyone to cool down. They didn't. See the Feedback Forum.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have been warned once or twice..never banned. Yet I am considered a right wing crank they cant stand...sort of the Anti-Eki. Still never banned..lol...

[donKey jote]

bunch of donkeys the lot of them if you ask me :p :

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Mark in Oshawa]

I still cannot find the thread that brought all of this on. Didn't see anything in the F1 forum that indicates to me anyone should be banned. Wrote a thread on the feedback protesting the whole nature of the banning and the hush hush by Pino and not discussing it.

You should only ban people who cross a line and insult other posters to the point where they are being castigated due to their sex, race or education. A little bit of "you'r re wrong and stupid" isn't an example of the latter either. It must be extreme and it must be preceded by a warning from the moddy. I think there has to be a certain level of argument tolerated and in that, you will have people get a little testy. You want to play on here, you need a certain level of thicker skin. I fight with Eki, Ben and Beans a lot, but I would be the first to say I wouldn't want to see them banned for anything they have said to me or anyone else. Yet Beans is banned I see, so I am really curious to find out what the heck was said.

This forum isn't as vibrant as it was 2 or 3 years ago, and I blame that partially on overzealous moddy's on some of the boards. Not that the Moddy's are bad people necessarily, for I wouldn't want their job; but for maybe forgetting that people need room to flesh out their arguments and occasionally vent. A consistency too is a good idea.

I hope something good comes from all the fussing and fighting, but I like a few of you, would like some explaination and know what discussion brought all this on. I cant find it.....

[harsha]

bunch of donkeys the lot of them if you ask me :p :

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

look who's talking now :cheese:

[Malbec]

I still cannot find the thread that brought all of this on. Didn't see anything in the F1 forum that indicates to me anyone should be banned.

I suspect the thread in question has been cleansed of the offending posts...

[Mark in Oshawa]

I suspect the thread in question has been cleansed of the offending posts...

Well THAT is wrong too. At some point, free speech either counts for something or it doesn't. I forgot they can remove posts, but then have something on the thread stating that posts have been edited or removed. There is no indication on the thread that anything happened other than it being closed off.

Like I said, I would like an explaination. I am likely wrong or being naive here, but I cant see where that thread was going off the rails that fast. I guess it did, and if so, then I do owe Pino an apology, but since I wans't here when that thread was growing, I wasn't here to see what was omitted....

[harvick#1]

it was the Button world champion thread ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yea..I read it, didn't see anything forgetting of course they clean up all the dead bodies and offensive posts....

[Easy Drifter]

Mark: See my comments in reply to you in the other forum.
Just to add if Pino or another mod had been reading things as they developed it might not have got out of hand and nasty.
Pino was busy with a family affair so wasn't available. He does need a life other than here and family is more important.
I do not think, but am not sure, if any other mod is on the F1 forum.
I know I was fed up.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Drifter, it is always good someone gives a rational explanation.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Pino got mad

[Mark in Oshawa]

Pino got mad

That I figured...I just needed to get some reason for his anger. on the surface it didn't appear justified.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

That I figured...I just needed to get some reason for his anger. on the surface it didn't appear justified.

Maybe it was a bit over the top. Perhaps Pino was setting precedent in order to get everyone to cool it.

If things were too hot in that forum for one mod to handle without banning everyone, should I suggest that we need more mods?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Maybe it was a bit over the top. Perhaps Pino was setting precedent in order to get everyone to cool it.

If things were too hot in that forum for one mod to handle without banning everyone, should I suggest that we need more mods?

I think that might be an idea. Pino apparently was in the middle of something outside of this artificial construct we come to argue in and I think that factored in as well.

I am worried that even when the mods may be right, a heavy handed approach almost drives posters away. These forums need more participation, not less.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think that might be an idea. Pino apparently was in the middle of something outside of this artificial construct we come to argue in and I think that factored in as well.

I am worried that even when the mods may be right, a heavy handed approach almost drives posters away. These forums need more participation, not less.

I agree. All of the members from that thread who where banned are among the biggest contributors to the forum. Even if they sometimes cause controversy, banning them doesn't help the forum.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I agree. All of the members from that thread who where banned are among the biggest contributors to the forum. Even if they sometimes cause controversy, banning them doesn't help the forum.

Don't disagree at all....

[Hondo]

I too, was surprised at the extent of the ban massacre. 6 active posters in one shot. In a way, it reminded me of the military strategy of rounding up the villagers and shooting all of them because of partisan activity in or near the village.

Thoughts on the matter:

The "free speech" argument is lame. This forum, like all of the others, is a private venture and the people that pay for and run it may operate it in any manner they like.

Some people are far too soft and thin skinned to be participating in an international forum.

If facts were all that counted, you wouldn't have a forum and wouldn't need one. Opinion is what drives the forums. Opinions are going to differ. Requiring a level of bogus respect for different topics, i.e., political agendas, politicians, drivers, teams, individuals, religions, races, cultures, food, etc., only make the discussion artificial as members hedge their replys or don't reply at all in fear of the great ban. Considering the amount of eye-rolling over "political correctness" on this forum by members and moderators, it is ironic how much of the stuff is used to govern the forum.

Some of the best, longest, and most enjoyable threads I have seen in my time here have been quite vicious with numerous attacks and counter-attacks. I feel like if one finds a thread or discussion therein to be offensive then they should either argue against it or just avoid it and not participate at all. Running off to tell Mum you got your feelings hurt and you want the other kids punished, well, what can I say? You know who you are and probably what you are.

"Banned" is silly. Why not change it to suspended or even better, Gardening Leave. At least that way, we know they have the option of returning.

It's true this forum is not what it used to be. Many posters that used to keep things lively have been banned for life or just don't mess with this forum anymore, citing the moderation, such as oily oaf. In all fairness, a certain amount of posters start out young but are now out on their own getting the crap beat out of them by the reality of real life and don't have the time anymore either.

Considering all the calls for "transparency" nowadays, I don't see what the problem is with letting us know why somebody has been put on Gardening Leave and for how long. Keeping it a big secret makes it appear petty and quite frankly, something that would put the moderation in the spotlight of public ridicule if the truth were known. Was a crime comitted or was an ego bruised? We are, for the most part, friends and maybe a sort of extended family on here. We have our ups and downs but it all gets sorted out sooner or later. Having a poster banned and being secretive about it isn't much different from having a friend or family member in the hospital and having the hospital refuse to tell you the nature of the ailment.

[Fred Basset]

I agree. All of the members from that thread who where banned are among the biggest contributors to the forum. Even if they sometimes cause controversy, banning them doesn't help the forum.

If your going on high post counts by saying "biggest contributer", that could in certain cases also be thought of as spamming or trolling just to get the highest post count....

[Valve Bounce]

I agree. All of the members from that thread who where banned are among the biggest contributors to the forum. Even if they sometimes cause controversy, banning them doesn't help the forum.

I have to disagree here: two of then banned members have been pushing the envelope a helluva lot, and baiting other members and ridiculing them for their opinions and ideas. Banning them might have been the best thing for this forum.

It is my understanding that things got very nasty, pino spent an hour cleaning things up, and deleting offensive remarks.

I stand by pino and I reckon what he did will result in better discussions and atmosphere in the long term.

[race aficionado]

I am amazed at how long Pino has lasted in this thankless job as moderator of this, our Motorsports Forum.
Moderators are here to do just that, moderate, but that "just that" is really not that simple - it is an enormous responsibility that requires time and patience and if you some how make the mods inpatient by not following their requests, they then have the right to impose the "law". It's in the fine print when you signed up to this forum.
I've seen many members assume responsibility for their bans and when they return, they continue contributing.
They take their licks and keep on ticking.

So take it or leave it.


:s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

"Banned" is silly. Why not change it to suspended or even better, Gardening Leave. At least that way, we know they have the option of returning.



That's exactly what happened. In fact, they will be unbanned after the next race next weekend.

Pity, because a couple of them deserved a longer stint in the garden.

[airshifter]

Let me just say I support Pino and Mark 100% in their decision. They do a thankless job, and they are the only ones that had access to all the information that led them to the decision made. Most of us didn't see the entire thread, nor were we aware of any past warnings or edited posts by any of these members.

Like most forum members here, I have some I get along with better than others, and have opinions. There was only 1 of the 6 banned that surprised me, as I've witnessed enough to convince me the others had it coming. And I'm sure that 1 that surprised me warranted it as well, simply that I hadn't seen it coming.


What really bugs me about the entire thing is the actions of a lot of people in all these threads. Members were banned for turning a discussion and debate into personal attacks and letting the issue spiral out of control. Yet the threads involving this issue are filled with members doing the same. We have moderators and forum members pointing the finger at Pino and Mark for their decision, and taking what jabs they can at each other and the banned members.

A mob mentality of continued rule infractions does not make it right. We could all voice opinions without making it personal.


I hope all the banned members return to debate with us during the silly season events, as all of them provided input that most of us on the forum enjoyed at some point. It has been made clear that the decision to return is theirs, and I hope all of us would be adult enough to let the past be the past if any of those members offended them. As Race said, many return admitting they deserved it, and contribute to the forums once again.

[Easy Drifter]

Before I go any further let me say I have had run ins with both Pino and Starter.
Unfortunately that thread got into quite a few nasty posts that had nothing to do with the supposed topic.
Some non moderators tried to cool things down and get things back on topic.
Pino had family commitments when all this blew up and came in late on the out of control discussion. Apparently no other moderators were on line.
People, please realize these people are all unpaid volunteers who give up untold hours to make things work.
Once Pino saw what was going on he issued warnings to all on the thread. Note plural.
Some posters did not heed the warnings.
Pino had to act and he did.
By the time Pino got through dealing with the uncalled for posts I expect his boiling point was about 1000 degrees celcius.
Maybe some posters got banned that should not have been.
Conversely some that maybe should have been did not.
I support Pino.

[Roamy]

ah banning is fine - it is the lifetime ban you want to avoid. the mods are fair and if you get banned on this forum you most likely deserve it. they will be back. I didn''t get to see the offending posts - maybe we should have a archive for them.

[Mark in Oshawa]

After some really good points made by all, I cant add much other than it was a little weird to hear of the "massacre" of sorts and not see the evidence. My only request I suppose is to see a tag saying posts numbered such and such removed by moderator. Then at least I would know somehting happened. The thread in question just ends and for someone not quite up on how this all works would think Pino suddenly lost his mind. We know now he didn't, and from all accounts did his job correctly so now I know more, that is my only request ( and it is just that...maybe the Mod's decided they don't want to dwell on it).

[Bezza]

I suspect the thread in question has been cleansed of the offending posts...

It may well have been, but I was reading all the way through and NO WAY were 6 members worthy of a ban. Absolutely ludicrous. Lazy moderation at its finest.

Seems quiet in here without a few key members. The world is a worse place without the freedom of speech, some of which was taken from members unnecessarily the other day.

[Fred Basset]

It may well have been, but I was reading all the way through and NO WAY were 6 members worthy of a ban. Absolutely ludicrous. Lazy moderation at its finest.

Seems quiet in here without a few key members. The world is a worse place without the freedom of speech, some of which was taken from members unnecessarily the other day.


I do not think that Pino's hours he spent tidying up their mess is lazy moderation. Why are we having this discussion anyway? If you don't like it, go to another forum... no ones holding anyone here against their will

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I don't think it is lazy moderation. Pino generally does a fantastic job, especially as he is a volunteer. But I think this episode has highlighted that the moderation was inadequate. Not because Pino is inadequate (he is very capable), but because we need more moderators. Particularly during busy times for the forum e.g. end of the championship race.

[Valve Bounce]

It may well have been, but I was reading all the way through and NO WAY were 6 members worthy of a ban. Absolutely ludicrous. Lazy moderation at its finest.

Seems quiet in here without a few key members. The world is a worse place without the freedom of speech, some of which was taken from members unnecessarily the other day.

If you don't like the way our forum is moderated, why don't you go to another forum? Nobody is forcing you to stay here.

The only part about your second paragraph that is correct is that it is quiet here. The rest of it is totally incorrect in its assumption that people here can say what they please. I strongly suggest you read the forum rules before you continue to post this line of reasoning about free speech.

[donKey jote]

Let me just say I support Pino and Mark 100% in their decision. They do a thankless job, and they are the only ones that had access to all the information that led them to the decision made. Most of us didn't see the entire thread, nor were we aware of any past warnings or edited posts by any of these members.

Like most forum members here, I have some I get along with better than others, and have opinions. There was only 1 of the 6 banned that surprised me, as I've witnessed enough to convince me the others had it coming. And I'm sure that 1 that surprised me warranted it as well, simply that I hadn't seen it coming.


What really bugs me about the entire thing is the actions of a lot of people in all these threads. Members were banned for turning a discussion and debate into personal attacks and letting the issue spiral out of control. Yet the threads involving this issue are filled with members doing the same. We have moderators and forum members pointing the finger at Pino and Mark for their decision, and taking what jabs they can at each other and the banned members.

A mob mentality of continued rule infractions does not make it right. We could all voice opinions without making it personal.


I hope all the banned members return to debate with us during the silly season events, as all of them provided input that most of us on the forum enjoyed at some point. It has been made clear that the decision to return is theirs, and I hope all of us would be adult enough to let the past be the past if any of those members offended them. As Race said, many return admitting they deserved it, and contribute to the forums once again.

absolutely agree with everything you say - must be a first ! ;) :)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[wedge]

If you don't like the way our forum is moderated, why don't you go to another forum? Nobody is forcing you to stay here.

The only part about your second paragraph that is correct is that it is quiet here. The rest of it is totally incorrect in its assumption that people here can say what they please. I strongly suggest you read the forum rules before you continue to post this line of reasoning about free speech.

Because the moderation on this occasion was a grey area, 50/50 and arguably erring towards being excessive and I share Bezza's opinion that it was lazy moderation.

What happens when the moderators decide to ban another 6 forumites and we have another debacle over 'excessive moderation'?

All very well laughing at a forumites' mishap and saying 'go join another forum' but does it solve things?

Not really

As someone suggested in the Feedback section, perhaps the mods as a whole could review the crime scene before taking action.

One thing that certainly needs fixing is mods emailling banned members why they were banned in the first place.

[airshifter]

absolutely agree with everything you say - must be a first ! ;) :)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Maybe a second or third. :laugh:

Though I don't see that it can do much good. The trend of some seems to be to attack Pino for taking charge of the situation and doing the right thing. So they break the rules complaining about someone enforcing them.

Mob mentality at it's finest.

[Valve Bounce]

Because the moderation on this occasion was a grey area, 50/50 and arguably erring towards being excessive and I share Bezza's opinion that it was lazy moderation.

.

This is nonsense. pino wasn't even here, he was at a family function. You seem to need reminding that the moderators are volunteers - this is not a paid job. Where do you get off that this was lazy? When pino returned, he gave two warnings, then spent over an hour cleaning up the thread while some members continued to insult each other unheeded by pino's two warnings.

In fact, these guys are not even banned; they are temporarily suspended and they are permitted to return after Abu Dhabi.

You are not the one to decide whether the area is grey or not - Mark is. He owns the place, and if you don't like the way he has his moderators working here, like I said before, go to another forum.

As an aside here, I also go to an AFL (footy) forum in Australia, and the moderators are a lot more lenient, but the many boards often degenerate into utter insulting chaos. I certainly would not like this forum to turn into something like that.

Again, I stand by our moderators 100%.

[Hondo]

I still think some people are overly sensitive, too thin skinned, and from a mental standpoint, too fragile for this sort of activity. Running to a mod because you got your feelings hurt, ego bruised, or insulted reminds me of a whiney, tattle-tale little kid running to it's mother.

[pino]

It may well have been, but I was reading all the way through and NO WAY were 6 members worthy of a ban. Absolutely ludicrous. Lazy moderation at its finest.

Seems quiet in here without a few key members. The world is a worse place without the freedom of speech, some of which was taken from members unnecessarily the other day.


Because the moderation on this occasion was a grey area, 50/50 and arguably erring towards being excessive and I share Bezza's opinion that it was lazy moderation.

What happens when the moderators decide to ban another 6 forumites and we have another debacle over 'excessive moderation'?

All very well laughing at a forumites' mishap and saying 'go join another forum' but does it solve things?

Not really

As someone suggested in the Feedback section, perhaps the mods as a whole could review the crime scene before taking action.

One thing that certainly needs fixing is mods emailling banned members why they were banned in the first place.

Only 75 posts were deleted and many posts edited, so indeed it was a lazy moderation, my bad... sorry Guys. I must also apologize to all of you, for banning for good the huge and scandalous ammount of 2/3 members since I became Moderator 6 years ago...shame on me :o :

[Hondo]

Only 75 posts were deleted and many posts edited, so indeed it was a lazy moderation, my bad... sorry Guys. I must also apologize to all of you, for banning for good the huge and scandalous ammount of 2/3 members since I became Moderator 6 years ago...shame on me :o :

Got to hand it to you. Normally it's difficult to convey sarcasim in a pure text format but you've seemed to have done quite well there.

Outstanding.

[Bezza]

I strongly suggest you read the forum rules before you continue to post this line of reasoning about free speech.

I strongly suggest that you don't tell me what to do, as I didn't ask for your advice.

I am off to pastures new anyway. I may post in the Touring Car forum from time to time if I can be bothered, but otherwise I've had it with this place.

Badly moderated and all the good guys have either been banned or have deserted the place...so I'm next.

Byeeeeee! :)

Bezza

13th Feb 2001 - 26th Oct 2009

[Dave B]

You're only 8? That explains everything :p

[Langdale Forest]

That's how many years he has been a member of theese forums for!

[Mark]

That's how many years he has been a member of theese forums for!

woosh :D

[Mark]

You should only ban people who cross a line and insult other posters to the point where they are being castigated due to their sex, race or education. A little bit of "you'r re wrong and stupid" isn't an example of the latter either. It must be extreme and it must be preceded by a warning from the moddy. I think there has to be a certain level of argument tolerated and in that, you will have people get a little testy. You want to play on here, you need a certain level of thicker skin. I fight with Eki, Ben and Beans a lot, but I would be the first to say I wouldn't want to see them banned for anything they have said to me or anyone else. Yet Beans is banned I see, so I am really curious to find out what the heck was said.


Vigorously defending your point of view, or even fighting you may say, is all fine by me. But as with anything it's all a matter of degree.

Now if a member just posts "you're wrong and stupid" then fine, it'll be let slide. But if all they ever post is "you're wrong and stupid" and the response they get back is "you're wrong and stupid too", and it goes on in that manner for page after page and the moderator tells them to shut up several times and both sides continue to post "you're wrong and stupid".. Then something needs to be done.

[DexDexter]

That's how many years he has been a member of theese forums for!

No kidding, Sherlock.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I strongly suggest that you don't tell me what to do, as I didn't ask for your advice.

I am off to pastures new anyway. I may post in the Touring Car forum from time to time if I can be bothered, but otherwise I've had it with this place.

Badly moderated and all the good guys have either been banned or have deserted the place...so I'm next.

Byeeeeee! :)

Bezza

13th Feb 2001 - 26th Oct 2009

Come back! I can't be the sole Prestonian!

[Fred Basset]

That's how many years he has been a member of theese forums for!

Thanks for confirming what i think we already knew although i'd prefer to think that considering all his crying and whining that was his DOB and he was just 8 years old. No one forces you to post here....

I can't believe how many posts were deleted.. 75? Blimey! No wonder they were banned. Excellent moderation by Pino :up:

[Valve Bounce]

Thanks for confirming what i think we already knew although i'd prefer to think that considering all his crying and whining that was his DOB and he was just 8 years old. No one forces you to post here....

I can't believe how many posts were deleted.. 75? Blimey! No wonder they were banned. Excellent moderation by Pino :up:

If I had that sort of power, I wouldn't have deleted just 75 posts and edited some others, I would have deleted the entire thread. :eek:

[Mark]

Thanks for confirming what i think we already knew although i'd prefer to think that considering all his crying and whining that was his DOB and he was just 8 years old. No one forces you to post here....

I can't believe how many posts were deleted.. 75? Blimey! No wonder they were banned. Excellent moderation by Pino :up:

Thanks for your support. Although I'm sure you are aware that half the people were banned because they where whining about others whining.. So be careful my ex-pat friend ;)

[Fred Basset]

Point taken.. ahem LOL ;)

[wedge]

I can't believe how many posts were deleted.. 75? Blimey! No wonder they were banned. Excellent moderation by Pino :up:

Did you read the original thread/posts?


If I had that sort of power, I wouldn't have deleted just 75 posts and edited some others, I would have deleted the entire thread. :eek:

Coca Cola tastes better than Pepsi

Yadda yadda yadda


Thanks for confirming what i think we already knew although i'd prefer to think that considering all his crying and whining that was his DOB and he was just 8 years old. No one forces you to post here...

He was 2008 Formula 1 Pickems Champion! :D

[Dave B]

Thanks for your support. Although I'm sure you are aware that half the people were banned because they where whining about others whining.. So be careful my ex-pat friend ;)
What happens if I whine about people whining that others are whining? Do I punch a hole in time and remain unbanned? :crazy:

[Mark]

What happens if I whine about people whining that others are whining? Do I punch a hole in time and remain unbanned? :crazy:

Pino ends up in a feedback loop :(

[Fred Basset]

Did you read the original thread/posts?



Coca Cola tastes better than Pepsi

Yadda yadda yadda



He was 2008 Formula 1 Pickems Champion! :D

Did i read them? Nope.. but i believe what Pino said in that they needed moving.. are you saying there was no reason for him to do that? Say now please LOL

Well Bezza can be F1 Pickems champ somewhere else now LOL

[Josti]

Glad to be a rallying fan in this. Sure there's some heavy discussion at times, but I can't remember a thread on the WRC section that has escalated. It's pure love. :love:

But few of those that are suspended, I'm not surprised at. The moderators do a great job in making this the best motorsport discussion forum on the internet as possible (in my opinion).

[Langdale Forest]

Although some people have complained about the rally forum, there have never been any big problems there.

[donKey jote]

short message to all drama queens: on yer bikes the lot of you !

boohoo :wave: :laugh:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Roamy]

I strongly suggest that you don't tell me what to do, as I didn't ask for your advice.

I am off to pastures new anyway. I may post in the Touring Car forum from time to time if I can be bothered, but otherwise I've had it with this place.

Badly moderated and all the good guys have either been banned or have deserted the place...so I'm next.

Byeeeeee! :)

Bezza

13th Feb 2001 - 26th Oct 2009

Don't let the door hit you in the ass !

[BDunnell]

Although some people have complained about the rally forum, there have never been any big problems there.

I think there are very good reasons for that, to do with the members that post there as opposed to the F1 forum — reasons that seem to escape those who take the view that everyone who ends up in an argument is somehow as bad as everyone else.

[Mark]

Indeed, thread closed.