Button and Brawn champs...

[BDunnell]

So what you're saying is that if someone runs across a busy motorway and gets hit and dies they're a dunce but if they make it through they're a hero?

There's no 'dunce' or 'hero' about it. F1 is an inherently dangerous sport in which participation in itself brings an element of risk.

[Daniel]

There's no 'dunce' or 'hero' about it. F1 is an inherently dangerous sport in which participation in itself brings an element of risk.
Of course. But if a driver doesn't need to risk anything then the intelligent thing to do is not risk anything......

[BDunnell]

Of course. But if a driver doesn't need to risk anything then the intelligent thing to do is not risk anything......

But if he wants to, that's his choice. Many championships have been won as a result of risks being taken that pay off. The drivers are perfectly capable of calculating the risks — sometimes they come off, sometimes they don't. That's racing. I genuinely don't like a lot of the criticism drivers get on here. On occasions it's deserved. Mostly it isn't. I'm hardly alone in this view either.

[Daniel]

But if he wants to, that's his choice. Many championships have been won as a result of risks being taken that pay off. The drivers are perfectly capable of calculating the risks — sometimes they come off, sometimes they don't. That's racing. I genuinely don't like a lot of the criticism drivers get on here. On occasions it's deserved. Mostly it isn't. I'm hardly alone in this view either.
Of course. Well at least we've moved a few steps forward :) A page or so ago Jenson didn't take any risks and now you recognise that he did.

[BDunnell]

Of course. Well at least we've moved a few steps forward :) A page or so ago Jenson didn't take any risks and now you recognise that he did.

Where did I say that he didn't take any risks? In my opinion, he didn't take any undue risks as a result of his driving. There's a difference. There is risk inherent in taking part. What you will never read me saying about any driver (and I hope you understand that I do not support any driver over any other) is that the risks they took and which came off 'might not have done', and criticising them as a result. What's the point?

[Saint Devote]

I've seen all this negative analysis before, when Nigel won - it was only because of this, that or the other - y'all are just so goddamn SORE that Jenson won you just can't stand it!

Well sucks to be you!!!

If you want goddamn boring sports to watch where the people that are "supposed" to win, do win most always, then go and watch tennis or some other revolting sport.

Read below:

[Easy Drifter]

I am totally puzzled. All year I have been reading about processions and how people cannot pass.
So we get a driver showing us it is possible, albeit difficult, and we have some people complaining it was too risky.
The point is Button is a racing driver. He was racing not cruising around afraid to pass anyone.
I do not think he is the best driver but he was the best this year, in conjunction with the Brawn.
If you want to see driving as opposed to racing, watch lapping.
We might even see another aggressive drive in the last race now that he has won the championship.

[Saint Devote]

In 2004 the BAR Honda was far from the best car and the year was dominated by the Ferraris - yet it was Jenson that finished THIRD in the world championship.

The difference was an excellent driver in a team managed by an excellent manager - David Richards of Pro-Drive. Just as we have at Brawn GP today - an excellent driver in a team managed by an excellent manager.

Jenson scored FOUR seconds [including SECOND at Monte Carlo], SIX thirds and won a POLE position.


Be fair to him. Maybe even enjoy and celebrate, perhaps not his championship, but that "we" as all of us that love F1, have brand new champion!

A bouncing baby boy named "2009 world champion racing driver" was born yesterday on Oct 18 2009. He has given his best this year and will represent this magnificent sport in a way that will make us all proud.

Be joyous!!!! :-]]]

Congratulations to everyone in the Brawn team. Well done Jenson, F1 Champion for 2009, fantastic achievement.

[DexDexter]

People want Kimi to go to rallying for different reasons than you think. Firstly in Finland he showed some decent speed, secondly he's Finnish so rallying is in his blood, thirdly some of us prefer rallying to F1 so having such a great driver in the WRC or IRC is a no-brainer. The forum is full of people trying to twist people's words to mean something else and it's seriously doing my head in.

The forum has been full of people doubting Kimi's commitment and anyone trying to argue otherwise is just kidding themselves.

To clarify things, F1 is far more popular in Finland than rallying. The huge popularity of rallying around here Is just a myth. Yes, people go to see the rally in Jyvaskyla but that's it. F1 gets far far more media attention.

[ShiftingGears]

In 2004 the BAR Honda was far from the best car and the year was dominated by the Ferraris - yet it was Jenson that finished THIRD in the world championship.

It was the second best car over the course of the year in 2004.

[F1boat]

For anyone to claim that Jenson is "unworthy" or whatever silly bloody descriptions such as we have seen in the Italian and Spanish press today that denegrates the Brit's championship is ignorant, unfair, unjust - plainly just sour grapes.


Try to understand them - first Hamilton, now Button, it is not easy for them! :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Well, I am not particularly a fan of Button, but I wouldn't call him a weak champion. He won six races in a very dominant fashion. Agreed, the car was bloody good, but Rubens in the same car couldn't do much.

He is not a great, brilliant driver, but no slouch either. So, here's cheers to a well deserved championship Button. Congrats!

[SGWilko]

Many championships have been won as a result of risks being taken that pay off.

Didn't for Damon in '94, did it. Still, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It was the second best car over the course of the year in 2004.

In Button's hands. Sato didn't do much with it.

[SGWilko]

In Button's hands. Sato didn't do much with it.

Blew it up, mostly.... :D

[ozrevhead]

Brawn wouldnt of won the WCC without Rubens so its only fair he gets a mention - 2nd in the championship after going through most of the offseason thinking Bruno Senna was going to drive for brawn istead is a great effort

He was so gracious in defeat and so sporting - even to the point of lending Jenson his private jet! :D

How anyone can not like Rubehino (sp?) is beyond me!

[ozrevhead]

To clarify things, F1 is far more popular in Finland than rallying. The huge popularity of rallying around here Is just a myth. Yes, people go to see the rally in Jyvaskyla but that's it. F1 gets far far more media attention.
this is off topic but wouldnt that change if Kimi was in Rally?

He'd be up there as one of Finland's top sportspeople i would think?

[ArrowsFA1]

I am totally puzzled. All year I have been reading about processions and how people cannot pass.
So we get a driver showing us it is possible, albeit difficult, and we have some people complaining it was too risky.
The point is Button is a racing driver. He was racing not cruising around afraid to pass anyone.
:up:

It is fairly safe to assume that those criticising Button for taking risks on Sunday would have criticised him had he cruised around in 'safety mode' and won the championship that way. Then it would have been "he only won because Rubens got a puncture" or "Button isn't a racer" or "Button can't pass" blah, blah, blah.

Button won the WDC by racing, passing people and driving - as Ross Brawn descibed it - "a fantastic race".

[BeansBeansBeans]

:up:

It is fairly safe to assume that those criticising Button for taking risks on Sunday would have criticised him had he cruised around in 'safety mode' and won the championship that way. Then it would have been "he only won because Rubens got a puncture" or "Button isn't a racer" or "Button can't pass" blah, blah, blah."

:up:

It's just nit-picking really isn't it? He's had a difficult second half of the season but he took the title in style on Sunday.

[Knock-on]

To clarify things, F1 is far more popular in Finland than rallying. The huge popularity of rallying around here Is just a myth. Yes, people go to see the rally in Jyvaskyla but that's it. F1 gets far far more media attention.

Well, that's because your Britcentric and biased.

Some myopically challenged Southern Hemisphere exhile with a solid grounding in remote parts of Wales has far more experience and knowledge of the Finnish people and Rallying than people like you :laugh:

(Sorry, just looking for the bit of drama I crave. Back to thread ;) )

[Saint Devote]

It was the second best car over the course of the year in 2004.

Not in the hands of Takuma Sato. And yes it was because Jenson made the difference on the track.

But the winners that year dominated because they had a car far superior to any other - but you always need the driver that can deliver to be driving. The relationship is symbiotic.

[AndyL]

In my opinion (hopefully I'm allowed to have one oh supreme overlord BDunnell :rolleyes: ) Jenson had more to lose than he had to gain from pushing like crazy. Sure it's earnt him the championship a race early with it working out but if he'd got punted off and Rubens hadn't got that puncture then Jenson was under a lot of pressure in Abu Dhabi. The intelligent thing would have been to bank a couple of points safely here and then not have quite as much pressure on yourself at the new track where god knows what could happen. I can think of two good examples of drivers pushing too hard when they didn't need to and ****ing up titles. Colin McRae in 2001 on Rally GB is a good example and Lewis Hamilton 2007 is another great one. If Lewis hadn't beached it in the pit entrance in that race people would be talking about how great he is etc etc but he took the risk and paid for it, if you can't see the similarities between those two situations then...... wtf?

Surely the best way for Button to make sure he wouldn't be under pressure in Abu Dhabi was to close out the championship in Brazil. As I mentioned earlier those 3 passes were necessary at the time to do that. (As an aside, I think that's been one of Button's strengths this season - he has repeatedly made passes or put in fast laps exactly when it's been crucial to make the strategy work. That's been instrumental in how he's recovered from poor qualifying results in the second half of the season.)
No matter what had happened, he would still have had at least a four point advantage going to the last race, so it's not as if he had everything to lose.

[ShiftingGears]

Not in the hands of Takuma Sato.

It was still the second best car, even though Sato was awful. I really don't see why you think finishing third in the championship in the second best car is some amazing result.

[nigelred5]

Don't think I ever said anything like "paying from his own pocket"

McLaren/Ferrari/Red Bull all employ far more people and have much bigger budgets........

WT

When that car was designed, I suspect the Honda staff and the budget was far closer if not larger than any of the three. 300 people aren't needed to run a pre-designed, customer engined car that saw little development throughout the course of the season. Lets see where Mercedes money lands and where Brawn is next season.

I'll eat my crow now, Button did win another race.........

[nigelred5]

To clarify things, F1 is far more popular in Finland than rallying. The huge popularity of rallying around here Is just a myth. Yes, people go to see the rally in Jyvaskyla but that's it. F1 gets far far more media attention.

I suspect in Kimi's case, living in finland where people may leave him alone may simply be far more popular than what he's doing right now.....

[Knock-on]

Armchair experts will never appreciate just how good Button is because he drives the car so beautifully. This has long been recognised as a great asset but ironically is also a weakness. With drivers like Lewis and Alonso, they can nurse their technique to be softer on tyres etc but Jenson cannot do this without losing tyre pressure. The same goes for brakes.

Perversely, the same is true when Button tries to push the car. Alonso and Hamilton can harry a car around a track but because Button is so smooth and fast, as soon as he tries to go over the edge, the car is out of control.

Setup is crucial to Button whereas it's not as crucial to Rubens for example because he always has that little raggedness aspects to his driving that means he is slightly slower than optimum. However, we saw several times this year what Rubens can do when he's 100% on his game and everything works which tended to be races where Jenson struggled to get into his groove.

Does this make Jenson a bad driver? Actually, the opposite. Anyone on the grid would struggle against Jenson in a car that is ideally set up. Where Jenson struggles is where the "greats" (for want of a better word) like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Button exell by having a car that is slightly off form and adapting their style to get the best from it. Those that follow the BTCC will have seen a great example with Colin in the last race suffering some damage to the rear and changing his cornering technique to compensate and maintain race pace.

Jensons weakness is that he is not as good as others at this but to denegrate him on what was a fabulous season, against a talented and experienced field is confusing. We had 3 World Driver champions against him, 6 different winning cars and his team mate is the most experienced driver of all time. Yet he scored twice as much victories as his nearest competitor, probably overtook more cars in the season that anyone else and wrapped the championship with a 15 point lead with one race still to go.

The mans pathetic!! :laugh:

[AndyL]

the "greats" (for want of a better word) like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Button

Was that a Freudian slip Knock ;)

[Knock-on]

Was that a Freudian slip Knock ;)

:laugh: Woops, sorry, i meant Hamilton :)

[BeansBeansBeans]

That was a good post Knockie.

Button is very Prost-like in that respect. Prost was also extremely smooth and required a similar set-up to Button. He was never the sort who could drive the wheels off any old rust-bucket, but if the car was right he could beat anybody.

Give Button a well-sorted quick car and he'll get the absolute maximum from it. Give him a car that struggles to work it's tyres and he'll look average.

[ArrowsFA1]

Armchair experts will never appreciate just how good Button is because he drives the car so beautifully.
Or is it perhaps because they prefer to use the image of Button created during his early years in F1, particularly his time at Benetton/Renault, when he was criticised for (allegedly) being more interested in the money he had begun to earn and the lifestyle that came with it? Briatore, as is his way of showing support for drivers under his charge, was cheerleading this image at the time.

That was back in 2001/2, but I do wonder whether Button still suffers as a result of how he was seen back then. Of course most of us realise how much he has developed as a driver, both through experience and damned hard work, but still...

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think it is widely accepted that Button's head was turned back in 2001 when he was a young man earning two massive salaries (one from Williams, one from Benetton), but this was only for a short period. Certainly from '03 onwards he has been an exceptionally committed sportsman.

[Dave B]

Or is it perhaps because they prefer to use the image of Button created during his early years in F1, particularly his time at Benetton/Renault, when he was criticised for (allegedly) being more interested in the money he had begun to earn and the lifestyle that came with it? Briatore, as is his way of showing support for drivers under his charge, was cheerleading this image at the time.

That was back in 2001/2, but I do wonder whether Button still suffers as a result of how he was seen back then. Of course most of us realise how much he has developed as a driver, both through experience and damned hard work, but still...
Jenson's just said in his press conference that he recognises that he thought F1 was a "weekend job" when he started out, but quickly changed his attitude and hopes that people respect that.

[Knock-on]

Or is it perhaps because they prefer to use the image of Button created during his early years in F1, particularly his time at Benetton/Renault, when he was criticised for (allegedly) being more interested in the money he had begun to earn and the lifestyle that came with it? Briatore, as is his way of showing support for drivers under his charge, was cheerleading this image at the time.

That was back in 2001/2, but I do wonder whether Button still suffers as a result of how he was seen back then. Of course most of us realise how much he has developed as a driver, both through experience and damned hard work, but still...

He had a blip for sure but he left the playboy image behind a long time ago. Still, there will be those that feel obliged to criticise him for acting a bit like a young man for a year when thrown into a circus full of beautiful women, fast cars and glamour.

Personally i would have said my prayers every night and phoned my mother 30 times a day. Honest......

:laugh:

[Robinho]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/10/the_remarkable_story_of_brawn.html

interesting story/info on the rise of the Brawn car and the compromises made to get it to the grid

[ioan]

You do talk a lot of crap you know.

There's a good reason why I ignore him for a couple of months already.


I never bashed any nation, I simply said that the forum is Britcentric which is not Daniel speak for OMFG Britain sucks!

Also, where has anyone bashed Brawn as a team? Nope..... can't see any great swathes of people bashing Brawn when they were simply the best.

You do like to manufacture a bit of drama don't you knockie?

Again a great post.

[ioan]

Armchair experts will never appreciate just how good Button is because he drives the car so beautifully.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is very very subjective, so I don't see why you are trying to use it as a fact that supports your bashing of those who don't like Button.

[ioan]

For anyone to claim that Jenson is "unworthy" or whatever silly bloody descriptions such as we have seen in the Italian and Spanish press today that denegrates the Brit's championship is ignorant, unfair, unjust - plainly just sour grapes.

You say what you want, it's your right, but trying to negate other's right to have an opinion is, allow me to quote you:



ignorant, unfair, unjust - plainly just sour grapes.

[henners88]

Trollin, trollin, trollin keep these forums trollin rawhide... yee haa :p

[BeansBeansBeans]

Does anyone know of an internet forum where one can find sensible, good-natured discussion on the subject of F1? Thanks.

[henners88]

I'm afraid I don't old bean, if you find one let me know please.. :)

[wedge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/10/the_remarkable_story_of_brawn.html

interesting story/info on the rise of the Brawn car and the compromises made to get it to the grid

Simply amazing. I remember Ross was so modest about it at the beginning of the year. Never knew the rear end was a severe cut and shut job.

[ArrowsFA1]

Never knew the rear end was a severe cut and shut job.
Sssshhhhhhhh!!!!! Max'll declare it illegal :eek: :p

[Daniel]

Does anyone know of an internet forum where one can find sensible, good-natured discussion on the subject of F1? Thanks.
Does anyone know a forum where the masses don't gang up on someone just because he doesn't agree with them and have a cry in the forum feedback section? (Ioan perhaps you should have a look ;) )

Ioan has his opinion, he's attempted to justify the way he feels and still you're bitching about it. What gives? Why don't you just be a men and accept what he says, not as fact but as an opinion and move on with it rather complaining like a bunch of kindergarten children who aren't getting their way.

I don't necessarily always agree with Ioan and I don't consider him a friend or anything like that but I will defend his right to express himself as he wishes without insulting people personally or being rude. It's one of the cornerstone values of this forum and no one should be able to stop someone expressing themselves as they wish. There is a lot of give and take in this area and I doubt anyone on this page can claim to have never been just that little bit rude or personal ;)

The whingefest in Forum Feedback where a couple of people are trying to more or less force Pino into banning Ioan is evidence of people trying to piss on the principle that the forum holds so dear.

I have a forum you people can go to if you want things your way.

http://www.jensonbutton.com/board/index.php

You asked for a forum where your opinion could be regarded as fact, now go and cease your infernal whinging.

[Knock-on]

Stop whining Daniel. You're amongst the worst!

get back to the subject which was the WCC and WDC of Brawn and Button. Yes, i know it's just my opinion that they won but pretend it's fact :p

ps. Thanks for the Feedback tip ;)

[henners88]

Ioan has his opinion, he's attempted to justify the way he feels and still you're bitching about it. What gives? Why don't you just be a men and accept what he says, not as fact but as an opinion and move on with it rather complaining like a bunch of kindergarten children who aren't getting their way.

Daniel, nobody is ganging up on you and ioan because we don't want you to have an opinion. ioan is entitled to his opinion but he is the first to throw insults and be provocative when someone disagrees which makes it fair game IMO. Most of the people here (excluding saint devote) have critisized JB throughout the course of the season but are willing to give congratulations where it is due. I don't think he has been the most dominant champion, but he has done the best job overall.

Picking up on things like JB sounding abit like a girl on a radio, and taking too many risks in the penultimate race just seem a little whingy to me. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I hope I have never come across as insulting when responding to your posts... :)

Chill out brother we can all get along :s mokin:

[ioan]

Does anyone know of an internet forum where one can find sensible, good-natured discussion on the subject of F1? Thanks.

Believe it or not this one is the best.

[ioan]

Daniel, nobody is ganging up on you and ioan because we don't want you to have an opinion. ioan is entitled to his opinion but he is the first to throw insults and be provocative when someone disagrees which makes it fair game IMO.

Well in this thread you were the first to start throwing insults to fellow forum members, so please stop judging others.

[ioan]

Stop whining Daniel. You're amongst the worst!

IMO you have no right to talk like that to him, he's got the right to say whatever he thinks. Try having a non patronizing discussion, it might help this thread stay alive.

[Daniel]

Stop whining Daniel. You're amongst the worst!

get back to the subject which was the WCC and WDC of Brawn and Button. Yes, i know it's just my opinion that they won but pretend it's fact

ps. Thanks for the Feedback tip ;)


Daniel, nobody is ganging up on you and ioan because we don't want you to have an opinion. ioan is entitled to his opinion but he is the first to throw insults and be provocative when someone disagrees which makes it fair game IMO. Most of the people here (excluding saint devote) have critisized JB throughout the course of the season but are willing to give congratulations where it is due. I don't think he has been the most dominant champion, but he has done the best job overall.

Picking up on things like JB sounding abit like a girl on a radio, and taking too many risks in the penultimate race just seem a little whingy to me. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I hope I have never come across as insulting when responding to your posts... :)

Chill out brother we can all get along :s mokin:

I've quoted these two posts together because they're like chalk and cheese.

One tries to add fuel to the fire and another tries to cool things down and justify how they feel. I'll let you decide which is which......

Henners, I know most people don't agree with me that Jenson was risking too much in this race, it's just my opinion and I personally think that a champion with a proper champions head on would have just trundled round and gathered a few points rather than going for glory. It's not whiney or anything, just opinion.

A lot of people however do agree that Jenson was being a bit silly to pretty much ask Charlie to tell Kobayashi to stop defending his place. After all this is motor racing and you have to make the pass stick.

I know I don't necessarily agree with you on everything Henners but I respect your opinion and the fact that you respect mine, if only the person above you could take a leaf out of your back rather than trying to inflame the situation. Henners, if Ioan is rude sometimes it's paid back 10x by the rest of the people on this forum. If he was alone on his own effing and blinding then he'd be banned but if Pino was to ban him he'd have to ban quite a few others.

P.S I loved your little trollin' ditty :p Might I suggest your next version be to Rollin' by Limp Bizkit? :p

[BeansBeansBeans]

You asked for a forum where your opinion could be regarded as fact.

No, I didn't.

[Daniel]

IMO you have no right to talk like that to him, he's got the right to say whatever he thinks. Try having a non patronizing discussion, it might help this thread stay alive.
Tip for you Ioan, Knockie made himself look like a fool there and you either had the choice to show him up or stoop down to his level and sadly you chose the latter.

[Daniel]

No, I didn't.
The only problem I can see with Ioan is that his opinion differs from that of the Brits on here. Anything he may say that is perhaps rude is almost always paid back 10x or in reaction to someone elses jibes. If you want to make fun of Ioan and insult him then go ahead, but don't complain when Pino doesn't ban him because everyone is doing it.

[ioan]

Tip for you Ioan, Knockie made himself look like a fool there and you either had the choice to show him up or stoop down to his level and sadly you chose the latter.

Well, I think I did what was right to do, or maybe a little less than what I would have done if I'd faced him personally. ;)

Let's just say that I controlled myself more than I would naturally.

[Daniel]

Well, I think I did what was right to do, or maybe a little less than what I would have done if I'd faced him personally. ;)

Let's just say that I controlled myself more than I would naturally.
Well you need to control yourself a bit more.

Whilst I feel strongly about defending your right to free speach I also feel strongly that you bring some of this upon yourself and you could look a lot better in the eyes of Pino if you didn't react in that way.

[ArrowsFA1]

Any chance of sticking to the subject of this thread? The clue's in the title.

This thread is looking more like Forum Feedback (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=93) :down:

[BeansBeansBeans]

The only problem I can see with Ioan is that his opinion differs from that of the Brits on here.

I wouldn't say I had a problem with Ioan but I think it's his manner that causes problems on the forum, not his opinions.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think that's a fair assessment from Rubens. Once again he's shown himself to be a tremendous sportsman. We could all learn something from him.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

SO the Brawn car had to have many compromises built into it to accommodate the new engine. Maybe next years car will be unstoppable if they can build a proper car instead of a 'kit' car.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think that's a fair assessment from Rubens. Once again he's shown himself to be a tremendous sportsman. We could all learn something from him.

I think I heard the Brazilian crowd booing Jenson as he climbed out of his car, but Rubens went over to congratulate him and the crowd sushed down. It was a nice touch.

Didn't see Massa doing this to Lewis last year. But maybe that was because he had the podium celebrations to deal with.

[Daniel]

Any chance of sticking to the subject of this thread? The clue's in the title.

This thread is looking more like Forum Feedback (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=93) :down:
Whilst I agree with you Arrows it is clear that something needs to be done about this and people on both sides need to have a nice cup of shut the **** up.

BBB, Ioan is the way he is because of the way other people act as well. It's all well and easy to blame him for all the ills of the F1 forum but if people push him for a reaction and get it then I don't see how it's entirely his problem which is what people seem to be suggesting.

The F1 has a snowballs chance in hell of getting a new moderator the way it's going and I don't blame Pino if he arranges it so he has family over every time there's a race because that's what I'd do.

[Daniel]

I think I heard the Brazilian crowd booing Jenson as he climbed out of his car, but Rubens went over to congratulate him and the crowd sushed down. It was a nice touch.

Didn't see Massa doing this to Lewis last year. But maybe that was because he had the podium celebrations to deal with.
I suspect though that Rubens went into the race knowing there was only a slight chance of him still being in the title race when the chequered flag went down.

Whereas Massa effectively crossed the line as champion and then :uhoh: I don't think even the greatest sportsman can forget that straight away.

[ArrowsFA1]

Back on topic...
Well Ruben's feels the second half of the season was his and I agree with him. It soon quashed any feeling that the team were favouring JB, and Ruben's did a sterling job keeping the fight alive.
I agree that Rubens has had a great season :up: While it's true that he has outscored Button since the British GP, it wasn't by much - 31pts to 25.

If we're to split the championship in two, up to and including, then after the British GP, the scores for part 2 are like this:

Hamilton 40pts
Raikkonen 38 pts
Vettel 35pts
Barrichello 31 pts
Webber 26 pts
Button 25 pts
Rosberg 19 pts
Alonso 15 pts
Glock 11 pts
Trulli 9 pts

So Rubens may have won the battle within Brawn by a small margin, but the second half of the championship has not been his, it has been Hamilton's

[BeansBeansBeans]

Plus, there's no doubt that Rubens and Jenson are close friends. I'm glad the added pressure of their title fight didn't affected that.

[ioan]

Well you need to control yourself a bit more.

Whilst I feel strongly about defending your right to free speach I also feel strongly that you bring some of this upon yourself and you could look a lot better in the eyes of Pino if you didn't react in that way.

I'm trying to find a compromise between controlling my nature on one side and not giving up on my principles on the other, believe me it's a tough task.

[BeansBeansBeans]

So Rubens may have won the battle within Brawn by a small margin, but the second half of the championship was not his, it was Hamilton's

From reading the article I think it is fair to say that Rubens was referring to the battle between him and Jense, rather than the field as a whole.

[ArrowsFA1]

From reading the article I think it is fair to say that Rubens was referring to the battle between him and Jense, rather than the field as a whole.
I think you're right, but still outscoring Button by 6pts is not particularly convincing IMHO, and obviously not enough to make up the 23pts margin Button had built up in "part 1".

[wedge]

Setup is crucial to Button whereas it's not as crucial to Rubens for example because he always has that little raggedness aspects to his driving that means he is slightly slower than optimum. However, we saw several times this year what Rubens can do when he's 100% on his game and everything works which tended to be races where Jenson struggled to get into his groove.

Does this make Jenson a bad driver? Actually, the opposite. Anyone on the grid would struggle against Jenson in a car that is ideally set up. Where Jenson struggles is where the "greats" (for want of a better word) like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Button exell by having a car that is slightly off form and adapting their style to get the best from it. Those that follow the BTCC will have seen a great example with Colin in the last race suffering some damage to the rear and changing his cornering technique to compensate and maintain race pace.

Jensons weakness is that he is not as good as others at this but to denegrate him on what was a fabulous season, against a talented and experienced field is confusing. We had 3 World Driver champions against him, 6 different winning cars and his team mate is the most experienced driver of all time. Yet he scored twice as much victories as his nearest competitor, probably overtook more cars in the season that anyone else and wrapped the championship with a 15 point lead with one race still to go.

The mans pathetic!! :laugh:

IMHO the mark of a great driver is not how good you are in a good car but polishing a turd by making a bad car look good.

He's done nothing of note in this regard all year. Instead he made it more difficult for himself with his quali peformance in the past few months.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

IMHO the mark of a great driver is not how good you are in a good car but polishing a turd by making a bad car look good.




This may be true, but it is unlikely that you will become an F1 champion in a turd.

[pino]

Closed wilst I am cleaning...and banning !

[pino]

6 members temporarly banned and thread ends here !