Mercedes = Cuckoo?

[Daniel]

Why would you want a German when you can have one of the best drivers in the field and a driver who is STILL fighting for the title in the 2nd last race and quite probably in the last race too. Idiots...

[F1boat]

I heard a rumor that whoever wins the WDC will remain at Brawn GP. If Vettel wins it, I don't know - ther was no comment.

[Charlie]

I heard a rumor that whoever wins the WDC will remain at Brawn GP. If Vettel wins it, I don't know - ther was no comment.

That would make sense from a commercial point of view, but I'd think Button is odds on to remain at the team. Ross Brawn seems to rate him very highly and also there is the commercial benefit of having a British driver in a British team.

Without a doubt though, Rubinho deserves that seat more than Rosberg and has done a lot better than Button this second half of the season.

[jens]

The problem is that the age-factor is too clearly against the older guys. If drivers are more or less on a similar level (which I think Rosberg and Barrichello might be), younger drivers, who have more years left in them and more room for further improving, are preferred. Also drivers like Trulli and Heidfeld could be left without drive for next year, while much younger guys like Glock, Sutil and even Kovalainen are more likely to find a drive. If Barrichello was 10 years younger, nobody would try to get him out of that Brawn seat. Actually, those same 10 years ago in 1999, when Rubens was also very impressive, he was linked to both Ferrari and McLaren drives in the silly season rumours, one of which he finally got. :D

[Daniel]

The problem is that the age-factor is too clearly against the older guys. If drivers are more or less on a similar level (which I think Rosberg and Barrichello might be), younger drivers, who have more years left in them and more room for further improving, are preferred. Also drivers like Trulli and Heidfeld could be left without drive for next year, while much younger guys like Glock, Sutil and even Kovalainen are more likely to find a drive. If Barrichello was 10 years younger, nobody would try to get him out of that Brawn seat. Actually, those same 10 years ago in 1999, when Rubens was also very impressive, he was linked to both Ferrari and McLaren drives in the silly season rumours, one of which he finally got. :D
If the rumours of Jenson falling back on Rubens' setup are true though I think Rubens' experience is more valuable and the fact that he still has this pace at his age is amazing. Personally I wouldn't get rid of either of them.

[DexDexter]

Why would you want a German when you can have one of the best drivers in the field and a driver who is STILL fighting for the title in the 2nd last race and quite probably in the last race too. Idiots...

They don't want a German, they want a Monacan with a dual nationality :D . But I agree with you.

[Valve Bounce]

Why would you want a German when you can have one of the best drivers in the field and a driver who is STILL fighting for the title in the 2nd last race and quite probably in the last race too. Idiots...

Is SchM making a comeback?? :confused:

[Saint Devote]

A company like Mercedes Benz, one of the great carmakers should know better than to believe nationality is important. Ask yourself - would YOU buy ANYTHNG just because someone that is in some way the same as you was represented or recommended it? Of course not, a rational consumer spending MONEY wants a good product and surely MB recognize that.

The Mercedes marketing department could not be that dumb.

Anyone advocating a driver be selected based on nationality has nothing to do with logic but everything to do with that most pervasive evil called nationalism.

And it would be unfortunate if nationalism were the reason for ANY team let alone Germany, given its history. Knowing how Germany has evolved I would be suprised and disgusted if it was after a nationality driver.

Mercedes should be requested to explain its position on this - as far as I know the driver nationality issue is still speculation BECAUSE the company has never stated so.

Age is a factor because Barrichello is in the retirement window, but if Raikkonen cannot be placed at Brawn, then really, why replace him at all? Rosberg is not at all the answer.

I would love to see Jenson and Kimi at Brawn.

[keysersoze]

I would love to see Jenson and Kimi at Brawn.

Since you are a Button fan, perhaps you should be careful what you wish for. :D

[CNR]

German ?


forceindia ?

sutil ?

[Saint Devote]

Since you are a Button fan, perhaps you should be careful what you wish for. :D

Why? Jenson is not afraid of teammates and is equally capable.

I think it would a team filled with ideal personalities versus the histrionics and hysteria that will eminate from the Ferrari side in 2010!! :D

[Saint Devote]

They don't want a German, they want a Monacan with a dual nationality :D . But I agree with you.

With respect - the correct term is Monegasque and there are very few indeed - none amongst the drivers.

[anthonyvop]

A company like Mercedes Benz, one of the great carmakers should know better than to believe nationality is important. Ask yourself - would YOU buy ANYTHNG just because someone that is in some way the same as you was represented or recommended it? Of course not, a rational consumer spending MONEY wants a good product and surely MB recognize that.

The Mercedes marketing department could not be that dumb.

Anyone advocating a driver be selected based on nationality has nothing to do with logic but everything to do with that most pervasive evil called nationalism.

And it would be unfortunate if nationalism were the reason for ANY team let alone Germany, given its history. Knowing how Germany has evolved I would be suprised and disgusted if it was after a nationality driver.

Mercedes should be requested to explain its position on this - as far as I know the driver nationality issue is still speculation BECAUSE the company has never stated so.

Age is a factor because Barrichello is in the retirement window, but if Raikkonen cannot be placed at Brawn, then really, why replace him at all? Rosberg is not at all the answer.

I would love to see Jenson and Kimi at Brawn.
You have no grasp of basic human nature. Nationalism is a very strong thought process and not always an evil one.
Nationalism saved Europe from National-Socialism.
Nationalism is at the core of the biggest sporting events. the Olympic games, the World Cup, Ryder Cup, America's Cup.

Also if Mercedes wants a German Driver it is nobody's business. You have no right to question them

[Valve Bounce]

You have no grasp of basic human nature. Nationalism is a very strong thought process and not always an evil one.
Nationalism saved Europe from National-Socialism.
Nationalism is at the core of the biggest sporting events. the Olympic games, the World Cup, Ryder Cup, America's Cup.

Also if Mercedes wants a German Driver it is nobody's business. You have no right to question them

It is interesting that during it's previous entry into F1, the Renault team favored French drivers.

And Jack Brabham also favored an Aussi called Black Jack, although he also let a Kiwi co-drive for him. :p :

But, of course, England has a great history of getting South Africans play and even captain their cricket team, so there is a wonderful example of multi- cultural-ism.

[UltimateDanGTR]

You have no grasp of basic human nature. Nationalism is a very strong thought process and not always an evil one.
Nationalism saved Europe from National-Socialism.
Nationalism is at the core of the biggest sporting events. the Olympic games, the World Cup, Ryder Cup, America's Cup.

Also if Mercedes wants a German Driver it is nobody's business. You have no right to question them

agreed but one has to question how barrichello is not as good as rosberg. In my view, they're both great drivers and barrichello has really shown his worth this season. If Ferrari had not of favoured schumi, who knows, he may have been a world champion by now......

the German thing is important for mercedes obviously, BUT, If mercedes want a german in one of what we would call 'main 2 teams' ie Macca and Brawn, and Kimi goes to rallying or toyota, then there may be a vacant seat at Mclaren, and rosberg could fit in there. although i hasten to add it would be better to see kimi in that macca seat.

seems to me like Ross has little choice unfortunatly.....

[Malbec]

If the rumours of Jenson falling back on Rubens' setup are true though I think Rubens' experience is more valuable and the fact that he still has this pace at his age is amazing. Personally I wouldn't get rid of either of them.

I wouldn't either but Rubens has history with the Brackley boys, they don't like him, never have and never will.

I have no idea why that is, certainly its not based on his performance on track when even during the bad years he kept Button honest.

Rubens was Honda's choice, they wanted him but the British based management and mid-level guys didn't want him. I thought his days were numbered after Honda left but Ross clearly wanted a safe pair of hands on the second car so he stayed. Now I suspect that even if he wins the championship (hope he does) there's not much Ross can do to keep the team from kicking him out, especially if their engine maker wants another driver in.

[Malbec]

A company like Mercedes Benz, one of the great carmakers should know better than to believe nationality is important. Ask yourself - would YOU buy ANYTHNG just because someone that is in some way the same as you was represented or recommended it? Of course not, a rational consumer spending MONEY wants a good product and surely MB recognize that.

The Mercedes marketing department could not be that dumb.

Anyone advocating a driver be selected based on nationality has nothing to do with logic but everything to do with that most pervasive evil called nationalism.

And it would be unfortunate if nationalism were the reason for ANY team let alone Germany, given its history. Knowing how Germany has evolved I would be suprised and disgusted if it was after a nationality driver.

Mercedes should be requested to explain its position on this - as far as I know the driver nationality issue is still speculation BECAUSE the company has never stated so.

Age is a factor because Barrichello is in the retirement window, but if Raikkonen cannot be placed at Brawn, then really, why replace him at all? Rosberg is not at all the answer.

I would love to see Jenson and Kimi at Brawn.

Have to agree with Antonyvop here (a very rare occurrence believe me) but your post simply doesn't make sense. Nationalism plays a strong role in F1. The fact that a German rival was already in F1 was a strong influence on BMW entering the sport, ditto for Toyota and Honda. You'd be naive to think that it didn't have an effect on the driver market with both Force India and Lotus talking about wanting an Indian and Malaysian driver respectively and Honda in the past pushing for a Japanese driver or a Brazilian one if possible (there are strong national links between Japan and Brazil especially in sport).

Also if nationalism riles you so much how did you feel about Mercedes picking the German national racing colour, silver/metal finish as its team livery for McLaren? What about Ferrari using Italian red, Toyota using Japanese red/white?

Then there are guys like Frank Williams whose political beliefs are, lets say, rather conservative and who has expressed a preference for British drivers if all other things are equal.

The idea that nationalism doesn't exist in F1 is rather naive to say the least.

[Charlie]

I wouldn't either but Rubens has history with the Brackley boys, they don't like him, never have and never will.

I have no idea why that is, certainly its not based on his performance on track when even during the bad years he kept Button honest.

Rubens was Honda's choice, they wanted him but the British based management and mid-level guys didn't want him. I thought his days were numbered after Honda left but Ross clearly wanted a safe pair of hands on the second car so he stayed. Now I suspect that even if he wins the championship (hope he does) there's not much Ross can do to keep the team from kicking him out, especially if their engine maker wants another driver in.

Why would the team dislike him? They were all chearing when he got pole yesterday.

I'd imagine aswell that the British based managment were over the moon when (if) they were told they HAD to have Barichello therefore having to drop Sato.

Personally I'm looking forward to seeing Raikkonen back at Mclaren next season but if he doesn't then I'd be pleased that Rubens could stay at Brawn.

[Malbec]

Why would the team dislike him? They were all chearing when he got pole yesterday.

I'd imagine aswell that the British based managment were over the moon when (if) they were told they HAD to have Barichello therefore having to drop Sato.

Personally I'm looking forward to seeing Raikkonen back at Mclaren next season but if he doesn't then I'd be pleased that Rubens could stay at Brawn.

As I said, I've got no idea what the reasons are.

I do know that when Rubens was largely outperforming Jenson during the dark days of 2007 and 2008 the mid-level guys simply dismissed his performance as desperate acts by a guy fighting for his career and not a reflection of his abilities. When Jenson did well of course it was because of his pure talent. As far as the UK side of the team were concerned they were desperate to kick him out even in favour of Senna, who IMO is nowhere near as good as either Rosberg or Rubens.

It also adds some context to Rubens' rants earlier on in the season when he suggested that there was a conspiracy at the team to get Button to win. He probably felt that way because he felt that dislike from certain sections of the team.

[DexDexter]

With respect - the correct term is Monegasque and there are very few indeed - none amongst the drivers.

You just don't get it, do you? I was referring to Nico Rosberg, who has German and Finnish nationality, but has lived in Monaco all his life, so in reality he is a Monacan.

"Monacan. A person from Monaco, or of Monacan descent"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monacan

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Monacan

http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/monacan.htm

[ioan]

Have to agree with Antonyvop here (a very rare occurrence believe me) but your post simply doesn't make sense. Nationalism plays a strong role in F1. The fact that a German rival was already in F1 was a strong influence on BMW entering the sport, ditto for Toyota and Honda. You'd be naive to think that it didn't have an effect on the driver market with both Force India and Lotus talking about wanting an Indian and Malaysian driver respectively and Honda in the past pushing for a Japanese driver or a Brazilian one if possible (there are strong national links between Japan and Brazil especially in sport).

Also if nationalism riles you so much how did you feel about Mercedes picking the German national racing colour, silver/metal finish as its team livery for McLaren? What about Ferrari using Italian red, Toyota using Japanese red/white?

Then there are guys like Frank Williams whose political beliefs are, lets say, rather conservative and who has expressed a preference for British drivers if all other things are equal.

The idea that nationalism doesn't exist in F1 is rather naive to say the least.

TBH I believe that nationalism shouldn't be a factor in an environment where only results and money really count.
Taking decisions based on nationality will not help on the long term when performance is considered important.

[Malbec]

TBH I believe that nationalism shouldn't be a factor in an environment where only results and money really count.
Taking decisions based on nationality will not help on the long term when performance is considered important.

On a very simple level what you say is correct, nationalistic decisions ought to hobble a team but reality is far more complex.

People around F1 are very much motivated by nationalistic thoughts because normal people are. F1 didn't gain Spanish fans because of good marketing, they did so because they wanted to watch a Spanish driver winning championships. Bank Santander's decision to sponsor McLaren then switch to Ferrari was based on its desire to use that nationalistic feeling and reach out to Spanish customers. How did that hurt McLaren and now Ferrari? Sleepless nights thinking about what to do with those millions?

I don't know which markets Merc is really concerned about but I presume Germany is one of them, a country whose interest in F1 is being reawakened by a new generation of F1 heroes, Vettel, Rosberg and probably Sutil. Why not use their second team to help get more publicity at home?

My original point still stands. Nationalistic factors have ALWAYS affected the driver market, to pretend otherwise is absurd. Mercedes is doing nothing new.

[ioan]

On a very simple level what you say is correct, nationalistic decisions ought to hobble a team but reality is far more complex.

People around F1 are very much motivated by nationalistic thoughts because normal people are. F1 didn't gain Spanish fans because of good marketing, they did so because they wanted to watch a Spanish driver winning championships. Bank Santander's decision to sponsor McLaren then switch to Ferrari was based on its desire to use that nationalistic feeling and reach out to Spanish customers. How did that hurt McLaren and now Ferrari? Sleepless nights thinking about what to do with those millions?

I don't know which markets Merc is really concerned about but I presume Germany is one of them, a country whose interest in F1 is being reawakened by a new generation of F1 heroes, Vettel, Rosberg and probably Sutil. Why not use their second team to help get more publicity at home?

My original point still stands. Nationalistic factors have ALWAYS affected the driver market, to pretend otherwise is absurd. Mercedes is doing nothing new.

Having a driver (or team) of a certain nationality that fails exactly because they went that way will not bring you too much either, is it?

I'd go for the best no matter the nationality as that is what wins races the rest is just for the brainless nationalists.

[Malbec]

Having a driver (or team) of a certain nationality that fails exactly because they went that way will not bring you too much either, is it?

I'd go for the best no matter the nationality as that is what wins races the rest is just for the brainless nationalists.

Only if you assume nationalistic factors are the only possible influence in picking drivers. That isn't what I'm suggesting.

[Robinho]

i think Brawn would be mad not to retain both drivers, but if they are lofor a driver for a few years then they might be best to let TRubens go, if they think whoever is available is the best bet for the future. if not leave it another year until Rubens is ready to give up and see who is available then

[christophulus]

Nick Fry all-but confirmed Rosberg has been signed up by Brawn for next year, completely glossed over the point when asked by the BBC. Depends now on whether they can agree terms with Button - if he doesn't stay I'll be quite shocked as Brawn have given him everything this year.

[winer]

A company like Mercedes Benz, one of the great carmakers should know better than to believe nationality is important. Ask yourself - would YOU buy ANYTHNG just because someone that is in some way the same as you was represented or recommended it? Of course not, a rational consumer spending MONEY wants a good product and surely MB recognize that.



As someone else mentioned, you are greatly underestimating the effect of nationalism. The only time F1 is ever mentioned in the press in Canada occurs when Jacques Villeneuve is in the news. Indeed, it is only JV who is news, F1 is secondary to him.

For a German car manufacturer to have a German driver associated with them, making news, doing promotions etc, would be huge in Germany.

[F1boat]

Nick Fry all-but confirmed Rosberg has been signed up by Brawn for next year, completely glossed over the point when asked by the BBC. Depends now on whether they can agree terms with Button - if he doesn't stay I'll be quite shocked as Brawn have given him everything this year.

Fry said also that Button will stay almost for sure and will get a higher salary.

[gloomyDAY]

Does anyone else sense that Mercedes is a ticking time bomb?

The Chin isn't doing too well and now he's stating that Rosberg's car was at an advantage during the majority of the season. Also, management keeps butting heads but you always see those press releases by Mercedes mentioning tales of hugs n' kisses and roasting marshmallows in the fire.

I just don't buy it! I think Brawn and Haug are at polar opposites and the **it is going to hit the fan before the season is over. Both men are highly competitive and opinionated, so I'm expecting someone to take the first shot across the bow anytime now.

Thoughts?

[Big Ben]

Thoughts?

none. they give me headaches.

if MS is saying that the team is favoring NR he´s pretty pathetic. Why would a serious team favor a driver over the other when they are not in the fight for the wdc? They simply need the maximum number of points from both of them no matter in what order they finish. yeah MS baby, blame everything and everyone and keep yourself out of it.... leaving with dignity is for suckers

[ioan]

Does anyone else sense that Mercedes is a ticking time bomb?

The Chin isn't doing too well and now he's stating that Rosberg's car was at an advantage during the majority of the season. Also, management keeps butting heads but you always see those press releases by Mercedes mentioning tales of hugs n' kisses and roasting marshmallows in the fire.

I just don't buy it! I think Brawn and Haug are at polar opposites and the **it is going to hit the fan before the season is over. Both men are highly competitive and opinionated, so I'm expecting someone to take the first shot across the bow anytime now.

Thoughts?

I don't care about soap operas, racing on track is what I watch F1 for.

[F1boat]

Well, Haug agreed with Michael. The problem IMO is with Michael's team. In the middle of last year, while they were still working for Jenson, they totally lost the plot and IMO they still can not set the car to work properly with its tyres or to make it fast during qualy and sometimes race. Michael too has some serious problems, relared with age and difficulty in adapting to new era, but I think that his side of the garage lost the plot since the British GP last year and has failed to recover.
I don't know why, however. :(

[gloomyDAY]

I don't care about soap operas, racing on track is what I watch F1 for.So do I ioan, but these off-track shenanigans can negatively impact on-track results.

[ioan]

So do I ioan, but these off-track shenanigans can negatively impact on-track results.

You are right about that.

[Shifter]

Rosberg let off some pretty funny one-liners this weekend and seems to be operating independantly instead of towing a team line in the interviews. On-track though, I think he's getting just about the best he can out of the car at his experience level. To me, it looks as if each side of the garage, the mechanics & their driver, are doing their own thing without much cross-chat. Rosberg's side is functioning at capacity and MS's side still have work to do. However I think from Rosberg's cadence at the Japanese GP that Rosberg knows something is screwed up at Merc at the moment and is just confident that his performance will let him either stay & build for next year or he can eventually go to another team if need be. Schumacher no doubt is the one who has to measure up, and until the Japanese GP (Singapore misfortune notwithstanding), he hasn't been doing so. Rosberg is the unofficial #1 based purely on performance, and he's the one with a future in the sport, and in the Merc team itself if whatever management issues get resolved.

[ioan]

Rosberg let off some pretty funny one-liners this weekend and seems to be operating independantly instead of towing a team line in the interviews. On-track though, I think he's getting just about the best he can out of the car at his experience level. To me, it looks as if each side of the garage, the mechanics & their driver, are doing their own thing without much cross-chat. Rosberg's side is functioning at capacity and MS's side still have work to do. However I think from Rosberg's cadence at the Japanese GP that Rosberg knows something is screwed up at Merc at the moment and is just confident that his performance will let him either stay & build for next year or he can eventually go to another team if need be. Schumacher no doubt is the one who has to measure up, and until the Japanese GP (Singapore misfortune notwithstanding), he hasn't been doing so. Rosberg is the unofficial #1 based purely on performance, and he's the one with a future in the sport, and in the Merc team itself if whatever management issues get resolved.

What team could Rosberg go to? Virgin? HRT? STR? Renault in the best case.

[Jag_Warrior]

Rosberg is the unofficial #1 based purely on performance, and he's the one with a future in the sport, and in the Merc team itself if whatever management issues get resolved.

I think that's the key point. IMO, the only thing Michael really has to offer these days is to help Rosberg become a better racer. Unless the 2013 rules give Mercedes(Brawn) another opportunity to exploit some loophole, Michael will probably never challenge for another WDC. Michael has a wealth of knowledge. Whether he'd be willing to share that knowledge, and accept that his best days are well behind him, is another question.

[Shifter]

What team could Rosberg go to? Virgin? HRT? STR? Renault in the best case.

Not a whole lot of potential moves for next season, the only exception is I think Massa is out of Ferrari for 2011. In that case, who vacates their current seat for the Ferrari drive? Anyway, I think there will be major changes throughout the 2012 silly season, and Rosberg should be peaking talent-wise at that point.

[Retro Formula 1]

I would like to see Rosberg at Renault if he's given an even chance. I don't think Mercedes favoured Rosberg over Schumacher and anyone that claims they would is a bloody idiot. As for Schumacher, it's about time he stopped winging about inconsistencies between the cars and shut up. If he can't hack it, then go back into retirement. He even moaned about the car before the Jap race start and then praised it after because he got a result. If it wasn't for Rosbergs DNF, he would have been moaning again I bet.

I think the best option would be for Mercedes to cut their losses and get rid of Schumacher. He's a liability and now is criticising the car and any other fabricated excuse he can think of for his failure.

[ioan]

I would like to see Rosberg at Renault if he's given an even chance. I don't think Mercedes favoured Rosberg over Schumacher and anyone that claims they would is a bloody idiot. As for Schumacher, it's about time he stopped winging about inconsistencies between the cars and shut up. If he can't hack it, then go back into retirement. He even moaned about the car before the Jap race start and then praised it after because he got a result. If it wasn't for Rosbergs DNF, he would have been moaning again I bet.

I think the best option would be for Mercedes to cut their losses and get rid of Schumacher. He's a liability and now is criticising the car and any other fabricated excuse he can think of for his failure.

So you don't like Schumacher, what a shocker! :D
IMO an on liner would have expressed the same that you posted above and you wouldn't have lost all the time needed to fabricate arguments. ;)

[Retro Formula 1]

So you don't like Schumacher, what a shocker! :D


Au contraire old fruit. I never said I didn't like Schumacher but even if I did, my likes and dislikes are irrelevant.

The point I was making is that it seems to be one excuse after another from the German.

Either he does the job he's there for or he needs to give someone that can use the machinery a go.


IMO an on liner would have expressed the same that you posted above and you wouldn't have lost all the time needed to fabricate arguments. ;)

I don't understand what this means. Can you elaborate?

Better still, can you answer the thread or are you only interested in talking about me instead of the subject matter. You seem to be good at avoiding the discussion and playing the victim?

[Garry Walker]

Mercedes = Cuckold?

[Retro Formula 1]

Mercedes = Cuckold?So, if Ross is the husband, who's the unfaithful bitch :D

[F1boat]

So you don't like Schumacher, what a shocker! :D
IMO an on liner would have expressed the same that you posted above and you wouldn't have lost all the time needed to fabricate arguments. ;)

The sad thing is that when Barrichello claimed similar things everybody was saying poor Rubens, despite the fact that it was Jenson's car, who was not working properly for the better part of the season.
But now everybody attacks Mike. :(

[Arjuna]

The sad thing is that when Barrichello claimed similar things everybody was saying poor Rubens, despite the fact that it was Jenson's car, who was not working properly for the better part of the season.
But now everybody attacks Mike. :(

Early this season Schue was fairly good in more than couple races and started fading thereafter. But last weekend in Japan he is back on form with good pass on Barichello. He might have passed or at least approached Hamilton if not he got strong defend from his teammate and a shame that finally went off after holding him off..
The car looked like not suit him too much, but the over all result this year might reflect the best attempts of his age.
I don't think everybody has attacked Mike on purpose ;)

[gloomyDAY]

Brawn is toughing it out at Mercedes GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87548

I feel optimistic about their chances next year.
A lot of what he said makes sense.