Loeb vs Hirvonen / Todt vs Vatanen

[Mihai]

I was thinking the other day that the French-Finish battle for the WRC drivers' crown is doubled by the French-Finish battle for the FIA presidency.

The wild similarities go even further, the FIA elections day being the first leg of the Rally GB (October 23).

The result for the FIA presidency will be known first and that can be a moral boost for either Loeb or Hirvonen.

Do you think there will be a 'split win' or one nation (either the French or the Finish) will grab both honours ?

[pettersolberg29]

I hope for Loeb and Vatanen, but expect for Hirvonen and Todt!

[urabus-denoS2000]

In WRC I'm cheering for the French guy but in FIA elections definately for the Finn! :D

[Francis44]

In the Wrc i would like Loeb to win too but in the FIA election i thinl Vatanen is the right choice!!!!

[wotaguy]

loeb and vatanen :)

[Mihai]

I root for Hirvonen and Vatanen, but I expect the French pair to win both battles.

[Juha_Koo]

Hirvonen and Vatanen. That's the only possibility. :)

[derek]

In 1981 Todt and Vatanen competed in the RAC to decide who would be WRC camp, Vatanen finished 2nd and Todt (co driving) finished I think 6th or crashed out late in the event. Vatanen took the prize.

It is odd seeing the two compete again all these years later.

I hope the fins will prevail both on the stage and at the ballot box.

[xavier]

I wish for Loeb and Vatanen
But i guess it will be Loeb and Todt

[AndyRAC]

As the elections are taking place on the first leg of RallyGB, that means there will be very little coverage of RallyGB - it will all be about how the election will affect F1. Just like last year when Honda pulled out of F1, very little coverage to the Rally and stage cancellations.

[Camelopard]

I'm for Mikko and Ari, but realistically think the FRM will prevail.....

[mdesign]

I'll be very happy if both Fins win, but I think the French guys will take the rally and the election.

[ShiftingGears]

Theres no way that Vatanen will win the election.

I hope Loeb beats Hirvonen, though I respect both drivers a lot. Both of them are true gentlemen.

[jimakos]

Hirvonen and Vatanen are my choices.
I'm sure about Mikko and almost for Vatanen ;)

[I am evil Homer]

Vatanen is about as likely as becoming FIA President as Matthew Wilson is of winning Rally GB

[Rallyper]

Hirvonen and Vatanen. That's the only possibility. :)

Yeah... the only outcome which benefits the sport!

[Josti]

For rallying's sake, Hirvonen and Vatanen. I think at least one of them can make it.

[Sulland]

To get some decency into FIA, lets go for Vatanen !!

The other one, let the best man win !

[mm1]

I hope it will be the Finns this time round.

[Doon]

Heart says....Hirvonen & Vatanen :)

Head says....Loeb & Todt :(

[mjh]

Heart says....Hirvonen & Vatanen :)

Head says....Loeb & Todt :(

+1

Hirvonen at least has a chance. Though I suspect Loeb, when he needs to, will turn it on and just edge the championship. But it has been a good fight this year and either driver would be a deserving winner.

With Mosley's tactics, and the reality that Todt will lead the 'same old' FIA in the way Mad Max would want, while Vatanen is likely to shake things up a little I don't think Vatanen has a snow balls chance in hell.

[A.F.F.]

Fortunately Hirvonen stands a chance for win. Vatanen on the other hand.... nope. :mark:

[Daniel]

Why do people see Todt being in charge being the death of rallying? Todt was once involved in rallying too......

[noel157]

Why do people see Todt being in charge being the death of rallying? Todt was once involved in rallying too......

Simply because most see Todt as Mosley's boy, his hair apparent (in Max's mind). Whereas Ari is the people's choice and Mosley see's him as a threat to his plan, undoing Max's "good" work over the years (and hence giving the perception that Max got it all wrong).

[Daniel]

I think that's an incredibly simplistic and foolish way of loojing at it. Tidt has successful teams in both F1 AND the WRC. I think both men are far better choices than Max but I feel Todt has more varied and recent experience of motorsport.

[BDunnell]

I think that's an incredibly simplistic and foolish way of loojing at it. Tidt has successful teams in both F1 AND the WRC. I think both men are far better choices than Max but I feel Todt has more varied and recent experience of motorsport.

Todt is also, by all accounts, very much disliked within F1. And the manner in which he has enjoyed the, shall we say, fulsome support of Mosley and elements of the FIA in this election ought to count against him, but won't. His election will be a bad day for the FIA.

[Daniel]

Will it be good for motorsport though? I really don't think anyone knows.

[Juha_Koo]

The only thing I dislike about Vatanen is his attitude towards climate change. I'm not a big fan of IPCC either and I disagree with quite many of their claims but I just can't entirely deny the truth that something - whether it's due to our actions or not - is happening.

[noel157]

I think that's an incredibly simplistic and foolish way of loojing at it. Tidt has successful teams in both F1 AND the WRC. I think both men are far better choices than Max but I feel Todt has more varied and recent experience of motorsport.

If you took more interest in the issue rather than asking and answering your own questions you might have a better grasp of the situation. Nothing foolish or simplistic about my opinion, look a bit further and you'll find it a reasonably accurate reflection. I suspect we are all familiar with Todt's recent and past history. You think he's the better man for the job but you don't know if it'll be good for motorsport? Strange thing to say.

[Daniel]

It was a rhetorical question.

[Daniel]

*sigh*

It was a rhetorical question.......

[noel157]

*sigh*

It was a rhetorical question.......

In other words you haven't a clue? I guess we're used all used to that.

[Daniel]

You're embarassing yourself, if you don't know what that means......

[Helstar]

OT: Daniel, for once can you talk 'straight' and not fooling around ? I am one of those who can't understand your "brilliant" rhetorical assumptions ... a lot of people aren't English mothertongue here, do you know ? :p

In topic: strangely I think too that Todt wouldn't be that bad but, surely, knowing that Mosley points him as a 'valid' successor puts doubts in my mind :s so I go for Vatanen, better not risk xD

[Tomi]

The only thing I dislike about Vatanen is his attitude towards climate change. I'm not a big fan of IPCC either and I disagree with quite many of their claims but I just can't entirely deny the truth that something - whether it's due to our actions or not - is happening.


Lol, that opened many eyes i guess, Im not so sure he would be a better choise than Todt, for instance he was strongly pro circulating rallies, else also his ideas are often more business oriented than sport oriented.

[Daniel]

i'm not talking in some strange langauge Helstar. I don't intentionally try to confuse people.

[bluuford]

The only thing I dislike about Vatanen is his attitude towards climate change. I'm not a big fan of IPCC either and I disagree with quite many of their claims but I just can't entirely deny the truth that something - whether it's due to our actions or not - is happening.

Well, as a climate researcher I am on Vatanen´s side. Climate is not changing, climate is fluctuating and man is not that powerful to change it. But Vatanen is strong enough to change something better in man made things like rallying. So, I like his attitude, dont worry too much about the things that you cannot change :-)

[Sulland]

I think both men are far better choices than Max

That at the time seemed like a much better alternative than Ballestre, but power is a strange drug...

But I agree, but for me the things Todt have said/written lately, puts Ari in front with me !

[Juha_Koo]

Well, as a climate researcher I am on Vatanen´s side.

I honestly never believed to hear that. :D But it's great to hear that there are views like that among the researchers. :)

[Daniel]

That at the time seemed like a much better alternative than Ballestre, but power is a strange drug...

But I agree, but for me the things Todt have said/written lately, puts Ari in front with me !

Very true. Sadly no one is incorruptable. Not to get too political but if you look at Obama, I think he has good intentions but the US is no run by the President, it's run by people with money and lobby groups. I doubt the FIA is much different. A good example of this in recent history is F2. The F2 cars came along and on some tarmac rallies were challenging WRCars for wins. Ford, Subaru Mitsubishi were all pissed about this and the FIA was forced to add extra weight to the F2 class which all but killed it off.

At the time F2 was a cheap way for manufacturers to dip their toes in the WRC, get some exposure, some experience of what it takes to compete at the highest level and it brought us Hyundai, Peugeot, Citroen, Skoda and Seat so i'd say it was a successful feeder class. After the FIA effectively killed F2 off, the learning curve for building a team from scratch in the WRC was significantly higher.

[AndyRAC]

Very true. Sadly no one is incorruptable. Not to get too political but if you look at Obama, I think he has good intentions but the US is no run by the President, it's run by people with money and lobby groups. I doubt the FIA is much different. A good example of this in recent history is F2. The F2 cars came along and on some tarmac rallies were challenging WRCars for wins. Ford, Subaru Mitsubishi were all pissed about this and the FIA was forced to add extra weight to the F2 class which all but killed it off.

At the time F2 was a cheap way for manufacturers to dip their toes in the WRC, get some exposure, some experience of what it takes to compete at the highest level and it brought us Hyundai, Peugeot, Citroen, Skoda and Seat so i'd say it was a successful feeder class. After the FIA effectively killed F2 off, the learning curve for building a team from scratch in the WRC was significantly higher.

So significantly higher in fact that any new Manufacturer coming in couldn't succeed, and left. Great!! Even less Manufacturers, and what have we ended up with? A virtually worthless series which very few people/media care about.
At the moment, Ford/Citroen have far too much say in the regs of the WRC - I know they would say they're protecting their interests, but what do they get out of beating 1 other Manufacturer?

[smokin'joe]

Vatenen dosn't stand a chance.

Mosley is still jealous of the fact that Ari F@#ked more escorts, than him and was applauded for his actions, not dragged through the tabloid media!!!

[Tomi]

Vatenen dosn't stand a chance.

Mosley is still jealous of the fact that Ari F@#ked more escorts, than him and was applauded for his actions, not dragged through the tabloid media!!!

lol, :D

[jimakos]

Vatanen is about as likely as becoming FIA President as Matthew Wilson is of winning Rally GB

Is really so difficult for Vatanen to become president???

[Daniel]

Vatenen dosn't stand a chance.

Mosley is still jealous of the fact that Ari F@#ked more escorts, than him and was applauded for his actions, not dragged through the tabloid media!!!

:rotflmao:

[AndyRAC]

Is really so difficult for Vatanen to become president???

Difficult?? That is an understatement! I've got more chance of winning RallyGB, RAC Rally and landing on the moon.....

Mosley, Ecclestone, Schumacher plus most of the FiA hierachy have backed Todt - the status quo will remain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/6328903/FIA-presidency-battle-erupts-into-new-row-as-leaked-emails-show-support-for-Jean-Todt.html

[Daniel]

So significantly higher in fact that any new Manufacturer coming in couldn't succeed, and left. Great!! Even less Manufacturers, and what have we ended up with? A virtually worthless series which very few people/media care about.
At the moment, Ford/Citroen have far too much say in the regs of the WRC - I know they would say they're protecting their interests, but what do they get out of beating 1 other Manufacturer?

What are you on about?!?!?!?! We've got Matt Wilson, Conrad Rautencrash, Evgeny Crashikov and an ice cream team. What more could you want? Sadly I see the WRC going the same way as the BTCC where manufacturers aren't interested and only misguided hardcore fans continue to rate it as a decent championship.

[AndyRAC]

What are you on about?!?!?!?! We've got Matt Wilson, Conrad Rautencrash, Evgeny Crashikov and an ice cream team. What more could you want? Sadly I see the WRC going the same way as the BTCC where manufacturers aren't interested and only misguided hardcore fans continue to rate it as a decent championship.

Oh silly me, how could I forget those stellar talents.

You know what baffles me, ISC have 'grand plans' for the WRC, yet very few Mnaufacturers are named/ or show interest. Either the cost of producing a car is dramatically cut, or we accept that Rallying is a viable exercise only for extremely committed Manufacturers, of which there are only 2, at the moment.

[jimakos]

Difficult?? That is an understatement! I've got more chance of winning RallyGB, RAC Rally and landing on the moon.....

Mosley, Ecclestone, Schumacher plus most of the FiA hierachy have backed Todt - the status quo will remain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/6328903/FIA-presidency-battle-erupts-into-new-row-as-leaked-emails-show-support-for-Jean-Todt.html

Shame on them :mad:
They don't let a ''rally-man'' to become the FIA president!
I don't mind anymore...

[Daniel]

Well, as a climate researcher I am on Vatanen´s side. Climate is not changing, climate is fluctuating and man is not that powerful to change it. But Vatanen is strong enough to change something better in man made things like rallying. So, I like his attitude, dont worry too much about the things that you cannot change :-)

Bluuford :) It's great to hear someone with these views :) You should head over to Chit Chat, there is a topic on Global Warming you might enjoy.

[Daniel]

Oh silly me, how could I forget those stellar talents.

You know what baffles me, ISC have 'grand plans' for the WRC, yet very few Mnaufacturers are named/ or show interest. Either the cost of producing a car is dramatically cut, or we accept that Rallying is a viable exercise only for extremely committed Manufacturers, of which there are only 2, at the moment.

Sadly there WRC now has more than just one problem so they can't simply turn the sport around because even if the sport is perfect the coverage is still rubbish....

[Helstar]

i'm not talking in some strange langauge
Oh ye, I can see that ^^;


What are you on about?!?!?!?! We've got Matt Wilson, Conrad Rautencrash, Evgeny Crashikov
Crashikov took Atko's place if I'm not wrong :p

[Daniel]

Oh ye, I can see that ^^;


Crashikov took Atko's place if I'm not wrong :p
Langauge :rotflmao: Silly me :p

[BDunnell]

What are you on about?!?!?!?! We've got Matt Wilson, Conrad Rautencrash, Evgeny Crashikov and an ice cream team. What more could you want? Sadly I see the WRC going the same way as the BTCC where manufacturers aren't interested and only misguided hardcore fans continue to rate it as a decent championship.

Blah blah blah. As I have said before, I respect your views on rallying, but not on other forms of motorsport. Still, nice to see that ioan's patented Continuous Loop Automatic Post Generator has found another buyer.

[Daniel]

Blah blah blah. As I have said before, I respect your views on rallying, but not on other forms of motorsport. Still, nice to see that ioan's patented Continuous Loop Automatic Post Generator has found another buyer.

You're only kidding yourself. The BTCC forum used to be full of people and posts even just a few years ago. Now the front page has one and a half months of threads on it. Why back in the supertourer days was the grid full of manufacturers? Why are so many of the drivers who drove in the supertourer days who are still active, active in the WTCC and not the BTCC? Why were the crappy supertourer days broadcast in Australia and various other countries yet the BTCC gets precisely 0 coverage in Australia these days? Why were games like TOCA and TOCA 2 made about this crappy series yet no one makes BTCC games today? Where are the ex-F1 drivers coming in for a larf in a competitive world class series?

Answer these questions and there's only one logical conclusion to come to.

Sure you and a few other hardcore fans like the series but the majority of the public don't feel that the BTCC at the moment is anywhere near as good as it used to be.

[BDunnell]

You're only kidding yourself. The BTCC forum used to be full of people and posts even just a few years ago. Now the front page has one and a half months of threads on it. Why back in the supertourer days was the grid full of manufacturers? Why are so many of the drivers who drove in the supertourer days who are still active, active in the WTCC and not the BTCC? Why were the crappy supertourer days broadcast in Australia and various other countries yet the BTCC gets precisely 0 coverage in Australia these days? Why were games like TOCA and TOCA 2 made about this crappy series yet no one makes BTCC games today? Where are the ex-F1 drivers coming in for a larf in a competitive world class series?

Answer these questions and there's only one logical conclusion to come to.

Sure you and a few other hardcore fans like the series but the majority of the public don't feel that the BTCC at the moment is anywhere near as good as it used to be.

This is not a thread for here, but (a) there were more than 30,000 people at Brands for the last meeting, a record BTCC crowd, and (b) I would be very interested to read your detailed analysis of how exactly the line-up of drivers of today are inferior to those of the supposed 'golden age' of 10-15 years ago. I bet it's a load of pre-conceived rubbish.

[Daniel]

This is not a thread for here, but (a) there were more than 30,000 people at Brands for the last meeting, a record BTCC crowd, and (b) I would be very interested to read your detailed analysis of how exactly the line-up of drivers of today are inferior to those of the supposed 'golden age' of 10-15 years ago. I bet it's a load of pre-conceived rubbish.

You were the one who brought it up. I merely made a motorsport analogy which anyone familiar with the BTCC and its past would have understood. If you want to have this discussion in the BTCC forum I'm happy to oblige :)

[noel157]

Along with all the biased emails from the FIA to various delegates around the world along comes this, Ari has a big battle ahead of him with the help of the French legal system or not:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79479

Other articles:

Ari Vatanen was marched out of Max Mosley's office on Tuesday, after a three‑minute audience with the world motor sport president. Vatanen, who is standing for election as the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile's president, was in Monaco for the Sportel conference and had been invited to meet Mosley at the FIA offices. But Vatanen told fellow delegates, including Prince Albert of Monaco and Uefa's president, Michel Platini, that the meeting ended after he attempted to discuss the electoral process.
Vatanen says he sought to clarify suggestions that the election Mosley is overseeing will involve the 210 FIA voters receiving ballot papers in named envelopes. Vatanen told those at Sportel that when he recommended that, in the interests of transparency, ballot papers should be distributed at random, Mosley escorted the Finn smartly to the door of his office, with the exclamation: "I am not arguing with you."
Vatanen and his supporters have long‑standing concerns about the integrity of the electoral process; several believe it to have been compromised by Mosley's declaration in favour of his preferred candidate, Vatanen's rival, Jean Todt. Indeed, despite his own assurances that the ballot will be secret, Mosley has written to one of Vatanen's most influential supporters effectively warning that anyone not supporting Todt will make an enemy of "the FIA membership".

Publication of a letter to Mosley from Ari:

Re: Election to the Presidency of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile

Mr President:

I believe it is my obligation to officially state that the campaign for the Presidency of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile is not taking place in accordance with the principle of neutrality which should apply.

The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile is a non-profit organisation with its headquarters in Paris, France and is governed by French law.

Pursuant to French law, the operation of non-profit organisations is governed by general legal principles.

Among these general principles, applicable to elections, the principle of equality among all candidates is enshrined in the French Constitution and the corollary to this principle of equality is the principle of neutrality, which all persons must adopt who due to their position have a particular influence on voters.

The breach of this principle of neutrality during election campaigns, when aimed at distorting the results of the election, is punishable by all of the French Courts.

This is why the rulings of the highest Administrative Court – the French Council of State – have constantly punished the violation of the principle of neutrality in connection with the election of Members of the French Parliament, Regional Councils, Municipal Councils and the Senate.

The French Court of Cassation has ruled likewise in a great number of decisions handed down, in particular those decisions rendered in connection with elections for Trade Representatives, Members of Works' Councils and Employee Representatives.

The obligation of neutrality must be complied with, not only by those persons whose positions allow them to influence voters, but also by any person or organisation in a position of subordinate, supplier, advisor or having a 'common interest'.

In the current campaign for the election of the President of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile, the principle of neutrality has been flouted constantly by the FIA, certain paid staff members and the employees of certain organisations dependent on the FIA which use the funds made available by the FIA, such as the FIA Foundation for example.

However, you were the first to violate the principle of neutrality.
Indeed, whereas I announced last 11 July that I was running as a candidate for the Presidency of the FIA, you sent an official letter shortly thereafter on 15 July to all of the Members of the FIA in which you state your intention not to stand for re-election and in which you openly express your support for the candidacy of Jean Todt who moreover, had not yet even officially announced that he was running for the office of President.

More recently, you have continued to show your favouritism towards Jean Todt, as last 23 September you gave an interview to journalists, which was reported in the press, according to which you stated, inter alia:

“For the Formula 1 Teams, Jean Todt would be a role model of integrity if he is elected as the President of the FIA…

He (Jean Todt) will ensure that everything operates like clockwork and is completely fair, honest, open and transparent and that is what you need.”

Even worse, you sent a letter on 28 September to Prince Faisal of Jordan, which you knew perfectly well would be reported by the press, in which you made a defamatory statement against me and in which you did not hesitate to claim that:

“Vatanen will lose the election and will lose badly, particularly as he has chosen to denigrate the FIA and the persons currently in power, rather than to lead a constructive and civilised election campaign.”

In addition, certain staff members of the FIA and other organisations related to the FIA have participated in the campaign in favour of Mr. Todt, by making statements, paying visits and sending letters, etc.

For example, the Secretary General for Automobile Mobility and Tourism was seen together with Mr. Nick Craw – candidate for the Presidency of the FIA Senate on the list presented by Mr. Jean Todt – when Mr. Nick Craw was on the campaign trail to visit a member club of the AAA, which is a Member of the FIA and will be partaking in the vote.

Moreover, the General Director of the FIA Foundation participated in this capacity in designing Mr. Jean Todt's election campaign.

Likewise, the General Director of Region I has been using FIA resources to engage in ongoing lobbying to influence numerous stakeholders in favour of Mr. Jean Todt.

I naturally am in possession of all of the evidence to support the reality of the facts stated above.

Under these conditions, I request that you stop and that you ensure that staff members on the payroll of the FIA and organisations which depend financially on the FIA stop these practices, which up until now have constituted a violation of the principle of equality among candidates to the Presidency of the FIA.

In addition, I further reserve all right to take action on account of the act previously committed against me.

Yours sincerely,


Ari Vatanen

Another article:


Ari Vatanen's campaign to become world motorsport's most powerful man hit fresh controversy on Friday when the FIA accused him of trying to question the ruling body's integrity.
Former world rally champion Vatanen stunned officials by asking a French court to impose a number of measures for the election which will decide the successor to Max Mosley.
Vatanen told the BBC: "We were obliged to do it (take legal action) because so many clubs around the world were afraid that the vote would not be secret because there is a certain level of intimidation and fear of sanctions.
"So when they go to their voting booth they must know the vote is secret. This is the way to make sure.
"I don't know why the FIA would act angrily if they have nothing to hide."
The FIA hit out at the Finn as the election battle, which also features former Ferrari team principal Jean Todt, took another ugly turn.
"Had Mr Vatanen troubled to examine the procedures in place, he would understand that these in fact already provide more safeguards than those he is asking the Court to impose," said a FIA statement.
"The FIA is at a loss to explain the purpose of this legal action, if not merely to generate further negative publicity and to attempt to raise doubts about the honesty of FIA staff.
"This is despite the fact that a large team of FIA personnel has worked continuously over recent months to ensure that the new FIA President is elected in a dignified and democratic way.
"This legal action follows a number of allegations made by Mr Vatanen to the media which attempt to call into question the integrity of the FIA's personnel and the FIA's election process. However, Mr Vatanen has not taken up an invitation to specify and substantiate his allegations


Going to get dirtier than a US presidential campaign.

[Daniel]

Sounds like this is going to be fun

[Brother John]

This is the proof that the F.I.A in France definitely and do what they want.
Modern policy (HOW WE MAKE MONEY) here too in motor sport. :confused:

[Helstar]

lol figures... already known

[jens]

In FIA elections I'd prefer Vatanen, but alas it's clear he has no chance there...

As for WRC... Well, difficult to say. Hirvonen's title would be kinda interesting for a change though and he has also been improving a lot throughout years, so credit for that, although as a driver still seems a bit inferior to Loeb. Most of all I'd like a memorable and fantastic showdown in the last rally.

[Daniel]

In FIA elections I'd prefer Vatanen, but alas it's clear he has no chance there...

As for WRC... Well, difficult to say. Hirvonen's title would be kinda interesting for a change though and he has also been improving a lot throughout years, so credit for that, although as a driver still seems a bit inferior to Loeb. Most of all I'd like a memorable and fantastic showdown in the last rally.
I certainly hope that the elections are free and fair as they should be. Personally I don't see Vatanen as the silver bullet that some seem to think he will be for rallying and I also don't see Todt as the evil SOB that some people seem to make him out to be.

[AndyRAC]

I certainly hope that the elections are free and fair as they should be. Personally I don't see Vatanen as the silver bullet that some seem to think he will be for rallying and I also don't see Todt as the evil SOB that some people seem to make him out to be.

It's quite interesting, I'm not totally anti-Todt, but because of who have backed him (Messrs Mosley, Ecclestone) I get the feeling he is the staus-quo candidate, or so we think. As for Ari, well yes, he's a hero for his driving -but, let's not forget, he backed DR and the changes made to Rallies in the late 90's early 00's - which robbed them of all their character, into the boredom filled events we have now.

[Daniel]

It's quite interesting, I'm not totally anti-Todt, but because of who have backed him (Messrs Mosley, Ecclestone) I get the feeling he is the staus-quo candidate, or so we think. As for Ari, well yes, he's a hero for his driving -but, let's not forget, he backed DR and the changes made to Rallies in the late 90's early 00's - which robbed them of all their character, into the boredom filled events we have now.
All very good points. Points which to me say that neither candidate is the clear saviour of rallying.

[Helstar]

Holy crap, either way we're doomed then... why not a third candidate ? How come only two ? Corrado Provera, where are you ^^ ?

[Tomi]

-but, let's not forget, he backed DR and the changes made to Rallies in the late 90's early 00's - which robbed them of all their character, into the boredom filled events we have now.

This sounds funny, was Vatanen something more than just a member of the ISC board, maybe you can explaine?

[bowler]

Letters between Vatanen/FIA are below

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/FIA/2009/Documents/av_letter_to_fia.pdf

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/FIA/2009/Documents/fia_letter_to_av.pdf

It is not good sense to criticise the people with whom you will be working if you win. I think Vatanen has made an error in criticising the staff of the FIA. Both letters make interesting reading.

[bowler]

The voting procedure is below,

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/governance/elections/Documents/voting_procedure_en.pdf

[bowler]

Vatanen has withdrawn his court action

from Autosport:

Vatanen withdraws court application

By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, October 20th 2009, 14:42 GMT

FIA presidential candidate Ari Vatanen has withdrawn the court application he had lodged in order to guarantee a fair election.

The Finn had applied to the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris to impose measures to ensure that Friday's election was transparent.

However, the FIA said on Tuesday that Vatanen had withdrawn the application after the former world rally champion and rival Jean Todt had a meeting with Max Mosley where both candidates endorsed the fairness of voting procedure, with a series of elements confirmed for the vote:

- The presidential elections will be supervised by a Huissier de Justice throughout the entire procedure.

- There will be a private voting area for marking ballot papers available for those voters who would like to use it.

- Each candidate, along with their speakers in support, will be given an opportunity to present their case to the General Assembly for a maximum of 15 minutes. Mr Todt and his team will take the floor first.

AUTOSPORT understands Vatanen dropped the legal action because all his demands were met.

[santori]

Guy Frequelin:

“To me Jean offers the best opportunity for the FIA, and for the future of motoring and motor sport.”

Jacky Ickx:

“I have had the privilege to work closely with Jean. That’s how my admiration for him was born. And by looking at how Jean’s career has developed further, my admiration has little by little moved to a very deep respect.

Juha Kankkunen:

“I look forward to Jean applying his uniquely successful formula for the benefit of our global sport and the governance of the FIA. In my view there can be no better President of the FIA than Jean Todt.”

Michele Mouton:

“Jean’s talent was plain to see for everyone rallying in the 1980s, he managed a team like no one else. The success he has achieved since then underlines his ability and his talent. With such a talent, he is the only choice for FIA President.”

Timo Salonen:

“I would offer Jean Todt my 250% backing to be the next President of the FIA. I have known both Ari and Jean for more than twenty years, Ari is a countryman of mine, but I have no hesitation in saying that Jean is quite clearly the best man for the job.

http://www.jeantodtandteam2009.com/JTT2009_191009_quotes.pdf

[Helstar]

Poor Ari, even his countrymates don't want his win... ^^

[Tomi]

Poor Ari, even his countrymates don't want his win... ^^

LOL, thats only because they know him, but our federation support him, because they have to.

[Helstar]

Ye ye whatever. He will lose anyway. And we're doomed anyway ^^

[kakus]

It's Todt

[Josti]

Yep, Todt it is. I hope he hasn't forgot his background.

[Miika]

Yesyesyes, Viva la F.. aah who am I kidding. Max, 16 years and counting.

[Rally Power]

Yesyesyes, Viva la F.. aah who am I kidding. Max, 16 years and counting.

Still don’t understand how people can see Todt as a glove poppet…

Ok, maybe he has done a pact with Mosley and his associates in order to reach power more easily, but no way he’s going to let Max rule for him.

With his rally past and connections Todt has all it takes in order to revitalize the sport and I really wish him best of luck!

[A.F.F.]

Let's face it, Todt can't be worse than Max the Perv.

[Lousada]

Let's face it, Todt can't be worse than Max the Perv.

That's what they said after Balestre. In the end, it's all a bunch of little dictators who do whatever they want.

[N.O.T]

yes todt has to try really hard to be worse than that useless old joke.

we will see

[Helstar]

Let's face it, Todt can't be worse than Max the Perv.
We can only hope. But we said the same with Balestre -> Mosley back in time... bad precedent