Firestone Indy 300 at Homestead Miami

[NickFalzone]

Qualification Show:
Fri, October 9 - 4:30 p.m. ET on VERSUS[/*:m:19qrq09q]
Race Time:
Sat, October 10 - 4 p.m. on VERSUS[/*:m:19qrq09q]The Virtual Lap:

http://www.versus.com/indycartrackpreview

Now for a question. Anyone else kind of surprised at the start time on Saturday? Usually it's either a day race, ie 2pm or so start, or night race, like 7 or 8 pm. But this race has a green at about 5 pm, and sunset in Miami right now is about 7 pm. So the entire race will take place at sunset? I imagine that would be quite difficult for the drivers to see. Might look good on tv, but this just seems like a very strange start time.

[SarahFan]

I agree..... Strange start time.....

The championship?....could go to any of them .... Hopefully all three are battleing at the end

[Lousada]

It all depends on what place the sun is. Perhaps it is already fallen below the grandstands at that time?? Still it is strange to start a race around dinnertime on a Saturday.

[booger]

I can't watch it on Dtv so frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

[Easy Drifter]

Final Shminal.
As usual IRL's Cdn. broadcaster TSN is showing the race on TSN2 which probably 90% of us Canucks don't get. On my Bell Satelite it is an additional pay channel but I have to take a bundle package at a fairly steep monthly charge and I don't want any of the other channels. Outside of IRL there is nothing on TSN2 I would even watch.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm noticing that Takuma Sato is not driving for Luczo Dragon at Homestead in a second car.

Was there earlier news before this that he was NOT running Homestead or was it just total rumor that he was going to be racing this weekend ?

[anthonyvop]

The 4 pm start is just plain stupid.

It will be hot as hell. The Drivers will be staring straight into the sun down the front straight starting around 5-5:30 and there is a very good chance of thunderstorms.

I have heard this is a Vs deal as their Saturday night Bull Riding/Cage Fighting schedule is their highest rated night.

[NickFalzone]

Yeah, Cerrone vs. Henderson is on later Sat. night and should get very good ratings for them. But I think they could have moved IndyCar later to be a real night race, and an actual lead-in for WEC, which doesn't start until 10. If the IRL went green at 7 they would still be able to go live to WEC by 10.

[NickFalzone]

The 4 pm start is just plain stupid.

It will be hot as hell. The Drivers will be staring straight into the sun down the front straight starting around 5-5:30 and there is a very good chance of thunderstorms.

I have heard this is a Vs deal as their Saturday night Bull Riding/Cage Fighting schedule is their highest rated night.

actually if there's thunderstorms, that might be a good reason to start earlier to give some extra time to get it all in if there's delays. I do not think that Versus would let IRL overrun the WEC start time.

[FormerFF]

The race doesn't start until 5 PM. The Grand Am race is from 1:05 to 3:35.

I'm not sure why it's a late afternoon - early evening race I suppose it is so both races can take place on Saturday. I'm guessing that IC doesn't want to go up against NASCAR and the NFL on Sunday, or maybe it's an attempt to get a few folks in the stands for the Grand Am race.

I haven't watched Grand Am, other than the 24 hour race, in a few years, but the last time I saw their Homestead race, there couldn't have been 1000 spectators in attendance.

[ozrevhead]

OMG you dont know how nervewracking it is to see Ryan one win away from a Championship

Hes been a jouneyman and us that have been there from the get go are few that could understand how much he deserves to win this

Im so nervous and scared and excited and all sorts!

[TURN3]

OMG you dont know how nervewracking it is to see Ryan one win away from a Championship

Hes been a jouneyman and us that have been there from the get go are few that could understand how much he deserves to win this

Im so nervous and scared and excited and all sorts!

If he doesn't win, he doesn't deserve it! If I had to bet on 1 of the 3 that will throw it away, he'd be the guy. That being said, he's fully capable. It certainly won't be the team, the equipment, or the strategy. Where he finishes is all on him.

[SarahFan]

If he doesn't win, he doesn't deserve it! If I had to bet on 1 of the 3 that will throw it away, he'd be the guy. That being said, he's fully capable. It certainly won't be the team, the equipment, or the strategy. Where he finishes is all on him.

what about that unbalanced set of tires he was given at Indy..... might very well have cost him a win.....

[TURN3]

what about that unbalanced set of tires he was given at Indy..... might very well have cost him a win.....

True, but the stunt he pulled in Japan wasn't unbalanced except in his head. Neither was the rear end job he pulled on Dixon at LBGP, no doubt costing them both more points. What about the brake system failure that put Dario into the wall at Kansas? Champions aren't made on what if's. What I'm saying is that of the 3, Briscoe is the most prone to boneheaded moves and if he doesn't win the race aka the championship, then he doesn't deserve it (this year anyway).

[Easy Drifter]

Somebody at TSN finally woke up long enough to realize this was the final race and that there was a 3 way fight for the championship so they moved the race to TSN from TSN2, or at least their schedule says that.
However it is being shown Sun. morning at 12.30 AM. on a tape delay. Hope I can stay awake!
Also wouldn't be the first time the schedule they show on their web site is wrong!

[NickFalzone]

No argument here that Briscoe has made the most mistakes of the three. Obviously, he still deserves the championship if he wins it though. And wasn't Kansas Rahal's fault? I don't remember the track, but the time that Dario got caught behind a slow car on pit lane and hit the wall was Rahal's fault for poking along.

[TURN3]

No argument here that Briscoe has made the most mistakes of the three. Obviously, he still deserves the championship if he wins it though. And wasn't Kansas Rahal's fault? I don't remember the track, but the time that Dario got caught behind a slow car on pit lane and hit the wall was Rahal's fault for poking along.

The contrary to my statements before are also true. Fact, whoever wins is more deserving than the other 2. Kansas wasn't Rahal's fault, it had nothing to do with Rahal. I was clearly documented after the fact that Dario had a brake failure causing the fronts to lock up and virtually instantly blow the tires, rendering him no control. You can research back to check it out if you like but it had nothing to do with Rahal as initially suggested at the time of the incident.

[TURN3]

I'm actually looking as much forward to seeing how far the princess falls in the points as much as I am to see who wins the title. She likely will fall to 7th or 8th and I'll laugh my ?$$ off seeing how that gets spun. Although I have to admit, without DFan here with the ridiculous posts, it is almost becoming not fun to care about her again. With no real favorite driver full time, that seems to be what keeps me interested at the moment.

[Easy Drifter]

Turn3: If you really miss Chad (DFan) that much ;) I can tell you another Forum he is on. He gets a hard time there too and he is being asked to pay up on a bet!
I could post the forum here but I think the mods would object. :eek:

[TURN3]

Turn3: If you really miss Chad (DFan) that much ;) I can tell you another Forum he is on. He gets a hard time there too and he is being asked to pay up on a bet!
I could post the forum here but I think the mods would object. :eek:

You can PM me! I'd love to read about the grief he gets elsewhere but I'm not participating outside of AR1. I enjoy racing but it isn't my life if you know what I mean. That being said, I'm excited for this silly season and hope for something to happen to get some positive momentum going into next year.

[Easy Drifter]

Well TSN got clouded over again. Back on TSN2 still on tape delay at 7 pm.
Bye Bye Cdn. fans.

[NickFalzone]

Well TSN got clouded over again. Back on TSN2 still on tape delay at 7 pm.
Bye Bye Cdn. fans.

TSN2 and tape-delay? Wow, what a joke.

[NickFalzone]

Not that anyone wants to sit in front of their computer but supposedly the VS telecast will be viewable live on IndyCar.com.

[Easy Drifter]

Yup and I am still on dial up so forget anything like that on the computer.

[NickFalzone]

Just caught the end of the qualifying show, will catch the rest later. But what the hell, they didn't even interview Dario after he won the pole? I don't understand why not. Good to see the championship contenders starting 1,2,3 should be a tight race from lap-1 on. Dario and Dixon are going to try some scheme to pair up off the top and get away from Briscoe. Carpenter looks like a real dark horse here, reminding me of Kentucky.

[NickFalzone]

Also, was there anyone in the stands during qualifying? Like anyone? Maybe a few relatives of the drivers/crew? Miami's attendance has sucked for IRL as long as I can remember, hopefully they'll get a few to show up for the... championship tomorrow? If it's as dismal a crowd as they've had the last few years I'd say it's time to find a replacement next season, like maybe Milwaukee or NH. Clearly no one gives a about open wheel racing here. And before the trolls come out, YES, many events this season had large and excited crowds.

[FormerFF]

I'm actually looking as much forward to seeing how far the princess falls in the points as much as I am to see who wins the title. She likely will fall to 7th or 8th and I'll laugh my ?$$ off seeing how that gets spun. Although I have to admit, without DFan here with the ridiculous posts, it is almost becoming not fun to care about her again. With no real favorite driver full time, that seems to be what keeps me interested at the moment.

I'm not sure why you think she'll wind up in 7th or 8th place. She has shown herself to be a consistent runner on fast ovals, and provided she doesn't have mechanical problems or get wrapped up in someone else's accident, will most likely be in the top ten. Considering how the IRL's points are awarded, that should be enough to keep her in fifth. Graham, Marco, or TK would have to win to bump her down a spot, and I don't see anyone out of the top three winning tomorrow.

[anthonyvop]

Clearly no one gives a about open wheel racing here. And before the trolls come out, YES, many events this season had large and excited crowds.
Open wheel? No
Formula Car racing? yes. Big difference for the Latin crowd.

It is freaking hot these past days. We are experiencing a major heat wave. 90+ degrees with HIGH HUMIDITY.
The over/under for attendance tomorrow is 21K. I am betting under.
BTW Tomorrow starts the Columbus Day Regatta and the 'Canes play tomorrow night.

After all that is said and done the fact is that all tracks use to draw much more attendance back in the day......When are people going to wake up and realize the problem is the PRODUCT.

[NickFalzone]

Well, if it's 21k or less then that's pretty pathetic. I genuinely feel bad for these crews and drivers to show up to some of these events and put their lives and health on the line in the fastest oval cars on the planet, in front of truly dismal crowds. I've been there, and it doesn't feel good. I understand that the weather is an issue, and perhaps the current gen of indycars is an issue, but ultimately a NEW spec indycar (or 2-spec indycar) series is not going to drum up much more attention in a place that clearly could care less. They'd probably do much better doing a street race in miami than that oval. We'll see a crowd of 20-somethingk tomorrow that won't give a rats a## who wins or loses and will be out in the parking lot as the championship celebration begins. Definitely not the place I would have chosen for the finale, but maybe I'll be proven wrong tomorrow. The last couple years have made me really wonder why the league keeps coming back.

[anthonyvop]

Well, if it's 21k or less then that's pretty pathetic. I genuinely feel bad for these crews and drivers to show up to some of these events and put their lives and health on the line in the fastest oval cars on the planet, in front of truly dismal crowds. I've been there, and it doesn't feel good. I understand that the weather is an issue, and perhaps the current gen of indycars is an issue, but ultimately a NEW spec indycar (or 2-spec indycar) series is not going to drum up much more attention in a place that clearly could care less. They'd probably do much better doing a street race in miami than that oval. We'll see a crowd of 20-somethingk tomorrow that won't give a rats a## who wins or loses and will be out in the parking lot as the championship celebration begins. Definitely not the place I would have chosen for the finale, but maybe I'll be proven wrong tomorrow. The last couple years have made me really wonder why the league keeps coming back.

I know it will ruffle some feathers and tick off many but the fact remains when CART/Champ Car ran at Homestead they averaged over 40K. Once the IRL became the show they never did better than 25K.

Tomorrow the Grand-Am will announce their 2010 schedule. They will not be running with the IRL any more at HMS and hold their own stand alone event at Homestead in March. They figured that trying to ride the coattails of a series that doesn't draw makes no sense.

Anyway the reason that the IRL is holding their finale at Homestead is the same as NASCAR's reason. It has nothing to do with attendance. It has everything to do with Sponsors, B2B, Hospitality and the weather.

[TURN3]

I'm not sure why you think she'll wind up in 7th or 8th place. She has shown herself to be a consistent runner on fast ovals, and provided she doesn't have mechanical problems or get wrapped up in someone else's accident, will most likely be in the top ten. Considering how the IRL's points are awarded, that should be enough to keep her in fifth. Graham, Marco, or TK would have to win to bump her down a spot, and I don't see anyone out of the top three winning tomorrow.

Because of how the points are awarded, you are somewhat correct. It intrigues me to know Marco, TK, and Rahal all have a reasonable shot to overcome the deficit. She's proven herself to be a consistent runner right behind whoever is in the lead pack...unable to move any forward. As long as the other drivers don't have problems, she's looking at 10th or 12th based on how things usually go. Also based on how things usually go though are that a handful of those drivers will have some sort of problem (hence why she's still 5th anyway). I'm rooting for her to finish as low as possible so the so called measuring stick for her is shorter. Either way, she's where she is due to some good strategy calls earlier in the year and the fact that she is consistent...I give her that but she's consistently not fast enough to compete with the front pack. Other drivers are competing, she's driving around and that means she's not good enough to get in the fight (to me anyway). At any rate, that is part of the intrigue for me today, not just the fight for first.

[Wade91]

what a stupid start time! i can see why thy would schudele the race for saturday, so people will watch it instead of NFL football games, they should have schudeled this to start under the lights tonight, not in the afternoon that doesn't make any sense, and now i'm gonna have to scitch back and fourth between the indy race and the nationwie race

[FormerFF]

Tomorrow the Grand-Am will announce their 2010 schedule. They will not be running with the IRL any more at HMS and hold their own stand alone event at Homestead in March. They figured that trying to ride the coattails of a series that doesn't draw makes no sense.


When the Grand Am race started, I tuned in for a few minutes. I'd been out this morning, and wasn't thinking much about motorsport. The TV crew show a shot of the grandstand, and there appeared to be a few spectators in the stands. I thought, hey, that's not too bad, since at Daytona practically no one sits in the grandstands for a road race, and then I remembered that this is Homestead, not Daytona, and there are only a few bleachers in the infield. There couldn't have been more than a couple thousand spectators at the start of the race. I see that there are more there now, as those who are coming to the IndyCar race are starting to filter in.

I'm thinking that the reason that Grand Am is rescheduling its Homestead race has to do with its other scheduling priorities rather than wanting to avoid IndyCar. Road races on a roval are a notoriously tough sell, only the 24 hour race at Daytona has done well. Outside of the 24 hour race, Grand Am attendance tends to be poor. Besides, isn't the Barber race going to be a Grand-Am/IndyCar weekend, where traditionally Grand Am was the headliner of their own race weekend there?

[TURN3]

I gotta say I've never been a "fan" of Sarah Fisher. Never anything against her but just not somebody I looked forward to rooting for. Starting last year, she has represented all that is good about Indycar as many of you have noticed. Just watching the piece before the race here I realize that not only is she all that is good about Indycar, Indycar will not succeed without her and people with her passion. We need more just like her. Many kudos to her and her team, couldn't be anybody more deserving.

[booger]

Ok guys and gals, I'm trying to find the race on my computer. Indycar.com says it's pay per view, "geo tracking blocked" whatever that means. Can anybody coach me to get the d****ed race on? No vs on Direct tv of course and I really don't want to try to find a bar that in all probability will have football on every channel and the barkeep will tell me to get lost. HELP PLEASE!

[booger]

Now they want $3.99 to sign up and watch...screw them. After this I won't pay $3.99 for a top line ticket to the race. RIP Indycar, I'm going to pop a beer and watch the Badgers beat Ohio State. Infinitely more exciting and interesting and I don't have to watch them on a lap top for $3.99 either.

[TURN3]

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that IRL has "made sure" the championship battle was decided among the 3 at the front.

[gm99]

Yeah, it is a bit suspicious that only the championship contenders are on the lead lap by lap 85...

[bzcam]

This is easily the most boring race of the season. Only 3 cars on the lead lap and guess which ones? Snore.

IRL 2009 goes out with a whimper.

BZ

[gm99]

If it stays green all the way, Dario might well pull off a surprise there...

[SportscarBruce]

Dude proves he's an open wheel racer through and through, great way to make a return to IndyCar! Congrats Dario Franchitti

[gm99]

Kudos also to Penske and Helio for not pulling a Piquet Jr. towards the end even though a safety car period would most likely haven given Briscoe the title.

Ganassi had the advantage of having two drivers in contention for the title, so they could split the strategies and have Dixon run flat-out while Dario held back and saved fuel.

[TURN3]

Listening to Danica whine about the pit incident as expected. Clearly a mistake on the crew of Wheldon but seriously, isn't this the same idiot that caused TK to proclaim he'd never drive for AGR again if he pitted behind her? It is racing and things happen...get a life Danica -- you're not that good.

[harvick#1]

Listening to Danica whine

you didn't think she could go the whole year without doing it could you :laugh:


its amazing how the 3 teams were that much faster, got to wonder if the IRL gave them something or told the other teams to back off. or if the their tires were that much better from Firestone. it seems odd to see only the 3 guys going for the title were while everyone else was 2+ down, all of a sudden, even dario who backed off for the event to save fuel was in a class of his own against all others except for Ryan and Scott.

had to be one of the worst races watched in a long long time, but thanks to the IRL for not throwing phantom debris cautions like Nascar does

[NickFalzone]

Congrats to Dario, a well-deserved championship and I'm glad he was able to achieve it in the unified series. Not the most exciting IRL race, but there's been worse. If it was a middle of the season race it would have been terrible, but there was enough of a fight for the championship going on between the 3 guys that I still found it exciting. And Versus did an excellent job from start to finish, actually showing the Championship ceremony for the first time I can recall on tv, usually ABC/ESPN has cut out before that takes place.

[SportscarBruce]

Versus has out-performed the established sports networks all year long in terms of enthusiasm and pre/post race content, their production quality improved from race to race as well. :up: Versus.

Far has Harvick#1's assertion that the race was boring, I agree and believe the notion that a single chassis & engine will level the playing field has been definitively disproven. The multiple engines and chassis format during the early CART era and pre-2006 IRL gave much better racing.

[NickFalzone]

Versus has out-performed the established sports networks all year long in terms of enthusiasm and pre/post race content, their production quality improved from race to race as well. :up: Versus.

Far has Harvick#1's assertion that the race was boring, I agree and believe the notion that a single chassis & engine will level the playing field has been definitively disproven. The multiple engines and chassis format during the early CART era and pre-2006 IRL gave much better racing.

Yeah, while I don't like the fact that the league's financial stability has been weakened a bit with the ratings this season, I definitely have no complaints about the quality of the Versus coverage. They really outdid themselves for most of the season, and particularly today's finale. I can't imagine another network putting on a better show than they did today. The fans deserve to have a thoroughly televised conclusion to the season, and for the first time in memory, that's what Versus gave us today.

[FormerFF]

I thought it was very compelling. Two of the three championship leaders were in contact with each other the entire race, while the third was running an alternate strategy. I don't like to see fuel conservation races, but if there had been 10 laps of yellow this one wouldn't have been, and who could have predicted that it would go caution free?

[disko]

congrats to dario. A little surprised on Penskes strategy. When Briscoe had clinched the points for most laps led, (like lap 185), I would have backed him out of it and conserved fuel. Would 10 laps of conserving gained him 5 laps?

[FormerFF]

congrats to dario. A little surprised on Penskes strategy. When Briscoe had clinched the points for most laps led, (like lap 185), I would have backed him out of it and conserved fuel. Would 10 laps of conserving gained him 5 laps?

Nope. 10 laps of yellow would have,

[anthonyvop]

its amazing how the 3 teams were that much faster,....... told the other teams to back off. ....... it seems odd to see only the 3 guys going for the title were while everyone else was 2+ down,

more than a few teams took it easy to save equipment/Cost for next year.

[TURN3]

more than a few teams took it easy to save equipment/Cost for next year.

No way. As I mentioned on lap 85 back on page 2, it is pretty obvious that the IRL made sure the championship fight was won at the front. Every team out there that hadn't won yet was looking for 1 (i.e. NHL, AGR, KV...). Don't tell me they were "saving up for next year". I think the 3 contenders Honda's had a little more under the hood and maybe too much to hide the obvious. The differential was ridiculous.

[harvick#1]

and I believe the Penske bunch proved that, as Helio is pretty good on ovals and to be that poor compared to his teammate showed something, it almost seemed like the other teams were just out there as a practice staying out of the way the whole race.

maybe those special white sided tires the 6, 9, and 10 had were a better compound than the others ;)

but no way were all the teams that poor to run 1 lap down on a track that you only lift for a second or so and full throttle the rest of the way

[anthonyvop]

No way. As I mentioned on lap 85 back on page 2, it is pretty obvious that the IRL made sure the championship fight was won at the front. Every team out there that hadn't won yet was looking for 1 (i.e. NHL, AGR, KV...). Don't tell me they were "saving up for next year". I think the 3 contenders Honda's had a little more under the hood and maybe too much to hide the obvious. The differential was ridiculous.
Dan Clarke agrees with you.

I do know of two teams who's race strategy was to stay away from traffic, to not force passes and save the tranny.

[F1boat]

Yes! Yes! Dario Is Champion! :-)

[garyshell]

I gotta say I've never been a "fan" of Sarah Fisher. Never anything against her but just not somebody I looked forward to rooting for. Starting last year, she has represented all that is good about Indycar as many of you have noticed. Just watching the piece before the race here I realize that not only is she all that is good about Indycar, Indycar will not succeed without her and people with her passion. We need more just like her. Many kudos to her and her team, couldn't be anybody more deserving.


Can I get an "AMEN" brothers and sisters? :angel: You are so absolutely correct. Sarah is so much like the old school privateers of the past. Go Sarah, as I said on her Facebook page, "While the result of the race might not have been what you expected, the effort you put into the entire race weekend was exactly what we have come to expect."

Gary

[anthonyvop]

One little tidbit that escaped most yesterday.

The Series that was created to get more American drivers involved finished the season without an American taking a win.

[wedge]

Congrats to Dario!

Ten years since he tied with JPM in CART.

Dag. I'm getting old!

[UltimateDanGTR]

superb Dario! well done that man!

Briscoe and Dixon deserved it just as much, but superb seasons for all 3 and one had to win.

Congrats Mr Franchitti!

[edv]

Congrats to Dario!

Ten years since he tied with JPM in CART.



...and 10 yrs since we lost Greg.

Dario hasn't forgotten...he dedicated his win to Greg's memory..and gets props in my book.
I never realised that Greg had introduced Dario to Ashley Judd.

[SportscarBruce]

One little tidbit that escaped most yesterday.

The Series that was created to get more American drivers involved finished the season without an American taking a win.



Well, o'er yonder there's plenty of 'mericans. The All-American young gun open wheel phenom is 24th in the standings. And then there's the Open Wheel Elvis from the Midwest, he's sitting at 27th. Can't forget that take-no-prisoners grizzled veteran some at one time compared to AJ Foyt in terms of temperment and driving ability, he's 33rd in the standings. From the Formula WTO dept: The F1 American Idol winner with a Stage Name You Couldn't Make Up If You Tried is down there at 35th. Want more? Look for a pair of drivers possessing Indy 500 legend pedrigees and respectable records in their own right, they're sittin' at 36th and 63rd. Why not give a nod to our NAFTA brethern up north? A Canadian open wheel CART standardbearer from years past is no longer challenging for wins or top billing, he's 48th.

I suppose the money's good and all, and Dario even took a grab at easy street, but Dario came home and now he's a champion. They never will be over there, I imagine each and every one of 'em realizes that, but the money's good and all. Why expect anything else in this day and age? It's just a mirror of society at large. Most newly graduated engineers and scientist are foreign born, OTOH their AMERICAN counterparts by and large steer away from the hard sciences and towards marketing, business, and legal pursuits. Mo' money, not as technical, and once you're in, you're in.

Yep. For 2009 no American Winners in American Open Wheel. Ultimately who's fault is that? :mark:

[SarahFan]

Yep. For 2009 no American Winners in American Open Wheel. Ultimately who's fault is that? :mark:

probably, like the TV ratings, mine

[harvick#1]

The Series that was created to get more American drivers involved finished the season without an American taking a win.

outside of Rahal, who else can win, Danica? :laugh: , Marco? :rotflmao:

[SportscarBruce]

I remember Mercedes v Toyota v Honda v Ford...Infinity v Oldsmobile.. Chevrolet v Honda... Dallara v G-Force...CART v IRL...fierce competition on and off the track week in and week out. We never had it so good and likely never will again. :(

[F1boat]

I remember Mercedes v Toyota v Honda v Ford...Infinity v Oldsmobile.. Chevrolet v Honda... Dallara v G-Force...CART v IRL...fierce competition on and off the track week in and week out. We never had it so good and likely never will again. :(

Still the battle between the drivers were very enjoyable and I think that Dario and Scott would have been good in any era. I remember Dario challenging the mighty Montoya!

[anthonyvop]

outside of Rahal, who else can win, Danica? :laugh: , Marco? :rotflmao:

Don't forget Sarah.....You would think she was the 2nd coming of Rick mears by the way some people talk about here

[GaryG]

I was glad to see Dario win. But I have the feeling that the IRL wanted to put on a three-car match race for the title. Everyone else out there just seemed to
in another class. I really think they did not anyone else spoiling the show.

[Oli_M]

I'm really worried - was I watching a different race from everyone else?! I thought it was probably one of the best races of the year. I was on the edge of my seat from half way through!

Great seeing no unnecessary yellows, and a truly fantastic last dozen laps or so. Well done to Dario and the whole team, well deserved. Nice post-race interviews from both Ganassi drivers (missed Briscoe's)

Hope to see both the 9 and 10 teams retaining their drivers!

[garyshell]

Don't forget Sarah.....You would think she was the 2nd coming of Rick mears by the way some people talk about here


Don't be such a tool, no one here has said a word about Sarah winning a race. The talk about Sarah has and will continue to be about her tenacity in trying to be an owner and driver in the face of almost unsurmountable odds. We could sure as hell use a lot more folks like her in the series. Her understanding of what it takes to market herself and the series is second to none. Look at the attention she has brought to herself and the IRL while appaearing in a driver's suit.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

I'm really worried - was I watching a different race from everyone else?! I thought it was probably one of the best races of the year. I was on the edge of my seat from half way through!



Really?

3 cars on the lead lap & The race and championship decided by fuel mileage kept you on the edge of your seat?

The no yellows was cool but the rumor of preferential treatment of the 3 points leader is not the kind of PR the IRL needs.

[garyshell]

3 cars on the lead lap & The race and championship decided by fuel mileage kept you on the edge of your seat?

Yes as matter of fact it did! Not so much having only 3 cars on the lead lap, but watching the strategy play out was very exciting. You see, for some of us the cerebral side of the sport is just as exciting as the visceral side. Just because the only thing YOU seem to care about is speed, speed, speed, doesn't mean that all fans have the same narrow interest. And your dismissive attitude to those of us who enjoy the chess game just as much as the power speaks volumes. (Maybe you should think about taking up reporting on NHRA, pure speed and no real strategy seems to be their mainstay. But not being a fan of that sport, maybe I am missing out on their strategic aspects.)


The no yellows was cool but the rumor of preferential treatment of the 3 points leader is not the kind of PR the IRL needs.

Gee, let me guess what south Florida wanna be reporter started that rumor?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

Gee, let me guess what south Florida wanna be reporter started that rumor?

Gary

You guess wrong my antagonistic towards the truth friend.

Actually it was a former IRL driver (and looking for a ride) who publicly stated it.

[garyshell]

You guess wrong my antagonistic towards the truth friend.

First, I am not your friend, so just drop the patronizing tone.

Antagonistic toward the truth? No, only skeptical of the version you attempt to pass of as the "truth". Since, for my tastes, it is all too often laced with editorial comment or bias.


Actually it was a former IRL driver (and looking for a ride) who publicly stated it.

Have a link or a quote to back that up?

BTW I thought it rather telling that you ignored the first part of my post.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

First, I am not your friend, so just drop the patronizing tone.

Antagonistic toward the truth? No, only skeptical of the version you attempt to pass of as the "truth". Since, for my tastes, it is all too often laced with editorial comment or bias.
You just proved my point.

Have a link or a quote to back that up?
Yes I do
http://twitter.com/SpeedyDanClarke
Scroll down. It is 1/4 way down


BTW I thought it rather telling that you ignored the first part of my post.

Why? because I found it condescending and simplistic so i basically decided it wasn't worth the comment?

[Jag_Warrior]

-I'm not your friend, buddy
-I'm not your buddy, pal
-I'm not your pal, guy
-I'm not your guy, friend
-I'm not your friend, pal
-I'm not your pal, buddy

Sorry, couldn't resist. :dozey:

[garyshell]

You just proved my point.
I only proved my antagonism for what you pass off as the truth. Whether you realize it or not there is a big difference.


Yes I do
http://twitter.com/SpeedyDanClarke
Scroll down. It is 1/4 way down
Wow, you must have had to dig hard to find a quote from a driver who didn't finish 13 of the 28 races he ran in 2006 and 2007 and hasn't had a ride since. And never mind the fact he hasn't even been in an IRL car. Yep, sounds like a great source for that rumor. What a joke.


Why? because I found it condescending and simplistic so i basically decided it wasn't worth the comment?

Yes, it was condescending. Not unlike your attitude toward folks who enjoy the strategic side of racing just as much as the speed.

Gary

[NickFalzone]

A couple of post-race interviews with Franchitti and Chip:

Dario Windtunnel:

http://www.speedtv.com/video/popup/?bcpid=1797019236&bclid=595125382&bctid=44553023001

Dario Post-race:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnNPe8v52Nc&feature=related

Chip Post-race:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2lzwWPJZo

[TURN3]

Wow, you must have had to dig hard to find a quote from a driver who didn't finish 13 of the 28 races he ran in 2006 and 2007 and hasn't had a ride since. And never mind the fact he hasn't even been in an IRL car. Yep, sounds like a great source for that rumor. What a joke.

Gary

Not that I really should get involved here but, you did ask him for a link to back up his statement. He did exactly what you asked...regardless of how credible you might feel Dan Clarke is, this is what he stated (albeit that Dan was a former Champ Car driver not IRL). Point is disagree all you want but how can you cut a guy down for providing exactly what you asked him for?

Personally, again as I stated on this forumn about the same time Dario (3rd place) put a lap on 4th place, it is painfully obvious the 3 contenders were the benefits of some "special" Honda's. Of course there is no proof that will every come to light but all you have to do is look at the obvious. I think Honda misjudged the extra power a bit and the result was extreme differential. I don't think that much differential was intended.

[garyshell]

Not that I really should get involved here but, you did ask him for a link to back up his statement. He did exactly what you asked...regardless of how credible you might feel Dan Clarke is, this is what he stated (albeit that Dan was a former Champ Car driver not IRL). Point is disagree all you want but how can you cut a guy down for providing exactly what you asked him for?

My intent was not to cut him down for providing the link, it was to call into question his spreading the rumor based on such a lame source in the first place. He tried to give it some credence by attributing it to an IRL driver. It turned out to be a guy who has never even driven an IRL car and hasn't even had a ride in any series in the past two years. Like I said, a lame source at best. And another fine example of his bias in his "reporting".

Gary

[NickFalzone]

Not that I really should get involved here but, you did ask him for a link to back up his statement. He did exactly what you asked...regardless of how credible you might feel Dan Clarke is, this is what he stated (albeit that Dan was a former Champ Car driver not IRL). Point is disagree all you want but how can you cut a guy down for providing exactly what you asked him for?

Personally, again as I stated on this forumn about the same time Dario (3rd place) put a lap on 4th place, it is painfully obvious the 3 contenders were the benefits of some "special" Honda's. Of course there is no proof that will every come to light but all you have to do is look at the obvious. I think Honda misjudged the extra power a bit and the result was extreme differential. I don't think that much differential was intended.

T3, what you're proposing is not impossible, but it IS still a conspiracy theory. I lean towards believing that all 4 TCG and Penske cars would have been a lap ahead had it not been for Helio crashing his primary in practice. Additionally, it was clear all year that on the mile 1/2s these 2 teams were far superior. You might say well KV was finding some speed. Yes, but another thing is that with the new rule changes, I think it took a couple races for Penske/TCG to really get rolling with the fastest setup. Now with a more "open" aero setup, the fastest teams can REALLY pull ahead, it just took them a little while to figure out. Also if it was just the Honda discrepancy, then how come there were cars 1 lap down, 2 laps down, 3 laps down, etc.? You'd think that it would be the top 3 being 1 lap ahead, and the rest of the field fairly consistently 1 lap down. But the field broke up bigtime. So between no yellows and some obvious aero/speed differences from one team to another, I just think the best engineered cars stayed up front and various levels of aero choices on the cars broke up the field a lot further.

[Lousada]

If there was a conspiracy it was with the tyres. Rigging the engines is too complicated to go unnoticed. However, I don't believe in any conspiracy. The Penske/Ganassi cars have won every race but one this year. Had there been more green/white/checkers we would have seen more commanding victories.

[TURN3]

Guys I totally agree that suggesting the contenders were given an advantage is in fact a theory of conspiracy...I understand that. I also understand that Penske and Ganassi are in fact the class of the field, I understand there were no yellows. I agree that maybe there was a difference in those special white sidewalled tires and maybe not the engine.

With all that being said, I think given the history the IRL has shown of favoritism (and NASCAR too for that matter), along with the observations on track (the conditions being a coincidence of only the 3 contenders that is), a conspiracy theory is warranted. My biggest problem with what I saw was the gross differential in speed...not that those 2 teams aren't already superior...but we're talking about GROSS DIFFERENTIAL. On all other 1 1/2 mile tracks, there were numerous other teams that competed in the lead pack, especially since the rules changes (i.e. Vision, KV, AGR) and they were in left field here. Plus throw in that the IRL is in desparate need of drama, it isn't a far stretch to suggest some tinkering to see a 3 way battle at the lead for the championship wouldn't be desirable.

But, I totally agree it is just a theory. Nothing can be proved pro or con. It is what it is.

[SarahFan]

anyone else remember that phantom yellow at Texas when Ryan was running away with it?

[garyshell]

If Penske and Ganassi were given some advantage, explain Helio being a lap down. Or is the suggestion that ONLY the top three were given the call? I don't buy it at all, Dan Clark's assertions not withstanding.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

If Penske and Ganassi were given some advantage, explain Helio being a lap down. Or is the suggestion that ONLY the top three were given the call? I don't buy it at all, Dan Clark's assertions not withstanding.

Gary
Why not?
It is a good way to make sure that the 3 contenders race among themselves. No reason to give Helio a boost.

Dan Clarke wasn't the only one saying it.

[garyshell]

Why not?
It is a good way to make sure that the 3 contenders race among themselves. No reason to give Helio a boost.

Dan Clarke wasn't the only one saying it.


More unattributed "sources". Who this time Mario Dominguez? Neel Jani?

Gary

[TURN3]

More unattributed "sources". Who this time Mario Dominguez? Neel Jani?

Gary

It's obvious your comments toward this poster are personal, no issues with that. But, do you understand the principal of "conspiracy"? It doesn't take some specific person or groups of people to suggest it publicly to be a theory. What do you need for Al Speyer, Robert Clarke or Tony George to come out and say it? Roger Penske? Scott Dixon? Here, I said it first...it is my theory. Is that credible enough for you? Come on man, lighten up...it is a very relevant possibility regardless of who says it, doesn't say it, agrees with it, disagrees with it, etc. True?

[garyshell]

It's obvious your comments toward this poster are personal, no issues with that. But, do you understand the principal of "conspiracy"? It doesn't take some specific person or groups of people to suggest it publicly to be a theory. What do you need for Al Speyer, Robert Clarke or Tony George to come out and say it? Roger Penske? Scott Dixon? Here, I said it first...it is my theory. Is that credible enough for you? Come on man, lighten up...it is a very relevant possibility regardless of who says it, doesn't say it, agrees with it, disagrees with it, etc. True?


I never said it wasn't possible. I said I didn't belive it to be true. But my comments to the "reporter" were about neither of those points. They were about his reporting that it was said by someone, without his saying who.

Gary