Our Man Obama

[Roamy]

This kind of speaks for itself!! Horrible Deplorable

Federal Register: February 4, 2009 (Volume 74, Number 22)

DOCID: fr04fe09-106 FR Doc E9-2488

Presidential Documents

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

NOTICE: Part II

DOCID: fr04fe09-106

DOCUMENT SUMMARY:

[[Page 6115]]
Presidential Determination No. 2009-15 of January 27, 2009

Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related To Gaza
Memorandum for the Secretary of State
By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including section 2(c)(1) of the Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962 (the ``Act''), as amended (22 U.S.C. 2601), I hereby determine, pursuant to section 2(c)(1) of the Act, that it is important to the national interest to furnish assistance under the Act in an amount not to exceed $20.3 million from the United States Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.
You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.


(Presidential Sig.)
THE WHITE HOUSE,
Washington, January 27, 2009
[FR Doc. E9-2488
Filed 2-3-09; 8:45 am]
Billing code 4710-10-P

In a nutshell the following is the reality

-

HB 1388 PASSED !! Executive Order just signed by Obama


You just spent $20,000,000 to move members/supporters of Hamas, a terrorist organization, to the United States ; They get housing, food, the whole enchilada.

HB 1388 PASSED...This IS true...read the federal register below

Whether you are an Obama fan, or not, EVERYONE IN THE U. S. needs to know.....

Something happened.... H.R. 1388 was passed, behind our backs. You may want to read about it.. It wasn ' t mentioned on the news... just went by on the ticker tape at the bottom of the CNN
screen.

Obama funds $20M in tax payer dollars to immigrate Hamas Refugees to the USA . This is the news that didn ' t make the headlines...
By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in "migration assistance" to the Palestinian refugees and "conflict victims" in Gaza ..

The "presidential determination", which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States , was signed and appears in the Federal Register.

Few on Capitol Hill, or in the media, took note that the order provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support to the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.

Let's review....itemized list of some of Barack Obama ' s most recent actions since his inauguration:

His first call to any head of state, as president, was to Mahmoud Abbas, leader of Fatah party in the Palestinian territory.

His first one-on-one television interview with any news organization was with Al Arabia television.

His first executive order was to fund/facilitate abortion(s) not just here within the U. S. , but within the world, using U. S. tax payer funds.

He ordered Guantanamo Bay closed and all military trials of detainees halted.

He ordered overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.

He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the USS Cole and the "terror attack" on 9/11.

Now we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refuges to move to, and live in, the US at American taxpayer expense.

These important, and insightful, issues are being "lost" in the blinding bail-outs and "stimulation" packages.

Doubtful? To verify this for yourself: http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488

[Eki]

Fousto has joined the Israeli lobby. I hope you at least get paid and not just act like a dumb parrot who doesn't even get a cookie.

[Rollo]

To verify this for yourself: http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488

Or, if you want to read some actual documented argument:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/palestinians.asp
MOSTLY FALSE
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-palestine-refugees.htm
Fiction!

Bush issued a similar order in 2007.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2775364/Administrative-Order-Migration-and-Refugee-Assistance-Act-of-1962-availability-of-funds-Presidential-Determination-No-200719-of-May-10-2007


This kind of speaks for itself!! Horrible Deplorable

Indeed it does. The words hate speech come to mind, which under your constitution you're allowed to speak, just like the BNP is is Britain. Sensible thinking people are still free to see precisely what it is for itself.

[Dave B]

Next time you get email, old chap, at least Google it before you post it and make yourself look silly :)

[gloomyDAY]

Time to save this thread.....

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wikiality/images/c/c1/Florencia-tesouro-miss-reef.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

Next time you get email, old chap, at least Google it before you post it and make yourself look silly :)

Are you seriously suggesting that anything should get in the way of the leisure class' raison d'etre and sole source of meaning in life: outrage?

How do you expect people to live?
Why bother getting up another day if one can't be outraged?

Without outrage most of the Americans that post here may as well slit their wrists so vital is it to their existence.

I'm sure the reason you aren't outraged is because you've already converted and become a Communist Nazi Socialist Arabiac terrorist in training, or is that redundant?

Seriously, when has accuracy meant anything to the US professional paranoid right wingers?

[Roamy]

Well Jan
You guy handled Iran without A shot and now looks set to fire McChrystal and pull out of Afghan. We need the money. But go further get out of the EU and asia.. Come on Jan talk to him. you can do it

[Eki]

Well Jan
You guy handled Iran without A shot and now looks set to fire McChrystal and pull out of Afghan. We need the money. But go further get out of the EU and asia.. Come on Jan talk to him. you can do it
You could save at least $3 billion per year, if you asked him to stop the aid to Israel:


Since the 1970s, Israel has been one of the top recipients of U.S. foreign aid.[20] While it is mostly military aid, in the past a portion was dedicated to economic assistance. In 2004, the second-largest recipient of economic foreign aid from the United States was Israel, second to post-war Iraq. In terms of per capita value Israel ranks first, though other middle eastern countries get US aid as well — Egypt gets around 2.2$ billion per year, Jordan gets around $400 million per year, and the Palestinian Authority gets around 1$ billion per year.[21]
In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25% to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period, while ending economic aid.[22][23]

And it seems quite stupid, that at the same time you give the Palestinians $1 billion so that the next day the Israelis can destroy what the Palestinians have built with it.

[Roamy]

Well EKI you already know that I would just move all of the jews here. But I am sure Obama will get around to their aid pretty soon. I imagine he will cut it out and give it to Hamas.

[Eki]

Well EKI you already know that I would just move all of the jews here.
Good idea. There must be at least as much available desert in Arizona than in Gaza and West Bank or even the whole Palestine.

[Camelopard]

Good idea. There must be at least as much available desert in Arizona than in Gaza and West Bank or even the whole Palestine.

Good point Eki, but Arizona isn't the mythical homeland, YET.

Maybe in a couple of thousand years Arizona will become the "Promised Land' and everyone can live happily ever after! :)

Surely this would mean a 'win win' situation because an israeli state in Arizona would mean paying taxes to the US government instead of the current ridiculous situation where israel is a defacto state of the USA collecting all of the benefits without any of the the drawbacks. like paying tax!

What do you reckon foustina?

[Eki]

Good point Eki, but Arizona isn't the mythical homeland, YET.

Maybe in a couple of thousand years Arizona will become the "Promised Land' and everyone can live happily ever after! :)

Surely this would mean a 'win win' situation because an israeli state in Arizona would mean paying taxes to the US government instead of the current ridiculous situation where israel is a defacto state of the USA collecting all of the benefits without any of the the drawbacks. like paying tax!

What do you reckon foustina?
And having a double citizenship and voting both in Israeli elections AND in American elections.

[Roamy]

Good point Eki, but Arizona isn't the mythical homeland, YET.

Maybe in a couple of thousand years Arizona will become the "Promised Land' and everyone can live happily ever after! :)

Surely this would mean a 'win win' situation because an israeli state in Arizona would mean paying taxes to the US government instead of the current ridiculous situation where israel is a defacto state of the USA collecting all of the benefits without any of the the drawbacks. like paying tax!

What do you reckon foustina?

Cameltoe:

The middle east has been a problem for the people their entire lives. It is time to move on. America has the space- Due to the Germans there are only about 7 million of them. Also we could return the same number of muslims to their native country. Also countless H1 Visa people could be sent back as well. Benjamin could take up golf and learn to be a lot less hostile. We could also make Benjamin head of homeland security and unite in a civil ceremony Janet Napolitino and Janet Reno.

A plan the world can live with!!!

[Roamy]

And having a double citizenship and voting both in Israeli elections AND in American elections.
Where would the other country of citizenship be??? there would be no israel. So what - give them "Indian Status"

[Eki]

Where would the other country of citizenship be??? there would be no israel. So what - give them "Indian Status"
I was talking about the current situation where the American-Israelis vote in both countries, which is bad IMO, a bit like taking adavantage of the American tax-payers money without paying taxes. In Arizona they would have just one citizenship and one vote, unless the coyotes adopt them.

[Easy Drifter]

I doubt a hockey team would want them. :D

[Eki]

I doubt a hockey team would want them. :D
Do Chicago Black Hawks have "Indian status"?

[Easy Drifter]

I was referring to the 'for sale and bankrupt' Phoenix Coyotes per your post about coyotes. :D

[Eki]

I was referring to the 'for sale and bankrupt' Phoenix Coyotes per your post about coyotes. :D
I know. I was just wondering.

[Easy Drifter]

They have about as much Indian status as the Boston Bruins actually are bears. :eek: :D

[Eki]

They have about as much Indian status as the Boston Bruins actually are bears. :eek: :D
Well, at least Anaheim Ducks actually are ducks.

[Roamy]

great day at the whitehouse Obama and Yo Mamma were making war policy. Seems they will recognize the Taleban as ligit government. Hey save that money and apply it to health care!!

[Jag_Warrior]

You could save at least $3 billion per year, if you asked him to stop the aid to Israel.

It's a lot more than that, by the time you add it all up. But anyway, it doesn't matter. The Zionists, within and without the U.S. had a law passed called the Cranston Amendment. They are guaranteed by law to get their yearly tribute from the U.S. taxpayers.

Hell, the Romans had a harder time getting tributes from the conquered inhabitants of Gaul than the Israelis have in putting their hands in our pockets every year.

[Eki]

Obama won the Nobel Peace Price. I didn't even know he was nominated.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Obama is spending 20 million to bring Palestinians who want out to emigrate to the US? 20 mill? Heck...with the way gov't works, that ought to be around 100 people if that.

If they screen them carefully, I suppose they will be ok...but then again, maybe not.

[Roamy]

what kind of crap is this. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565560,00.html
They should send this judge to Somalia!!

The reason the world has so much child abuse is just defined by this idiot judge. I child should be able to just raise their hand and be assisted in getting a new home. How long will this go on before we root out the evil judges in this country.

[BDunnell]

The reason the world has so much child abuse is just defined by this idiot judge. I child should be able to just raise their hand and be assisted in getting a new home.

What, even if the story is untrue?

[gloomyDAY]

what kind of crap is this. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565560,00.html
They should send this judge to Somalia!!

The reason the world has so much child abuse is just defined by this idiot judge. I child should be able to just raise their hand and be assisted in getting a new home. How long will this go on before we root out the evil judges in this country.WTF does this have to do with Barry?

[ShiftingGears]

what kind of crap is this. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565560,00.html
They should send this judge to Somalia!!

The reason the world has so much child abuse is just defined by this idiot judge. I child should be able to just raise their hand and be assisted in getting a new home. How long will this go on before we root out the evil judges in this country.

Let me just say straight up that all Muslims would kill Christians if they had the chance. FACT.

That is what you're basing it on, right?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Let me just say straight up that all Muslims would kill Christians if they had the chance. FACT.

That is what you're basing it on, right?

That's true for a minority of Muslims...but of course, people like Obama don't want to admit that.

[Roamy]

How in the hell did this M________F________ get elected???

Obama to lift HIV entry ban soon


Obama: "We need to be a global leader on Aids"
The US is to end its 22-year ban on people with HIV entering the country, President Barack Obama has confirmed.
Mr Obama made the announcement as he extended funding for an act that provides HIV/Aids related health care.
"If we want to be the global leader in combating HIV/Aids, we need to act like it," Mr Obama said.
The US is one of only about a dozen countries barring entry on HIV status. The ban is expected to be lifted at the beginning of 2010.

[BDunnell]

How in the hell did this M________F________ get elected???

Obama to lift HIV entry ban soon


Obama: "We need to be a global leader on Aids"
The US is to end its 22-year ban on people with HIV entering the country, President Barack Obama has confirmed.
Mr Obama made the announcement as he extended funding for an act that provides HIV/Aids related health care.
"If we want to be the global leader in combating HIV/Aids, we need to act like it," Mr Obama said.
The US is one of only about a dozen countries barring entry on HIV status. The ban is expected to be lifted at the beginning of 2010.

It's a ludicrous law that most countries seem to be able to do without, without causing any adverse effects, and should be repealed.

[Roamy]

most of us prefer you take them !!

[janvanvurpa]

most of us prefer you take them !!

Most of who?

Don't delude yourself that there are many who think as you seem to....

That idea is too, too funny...

Or are worried that you want be able to resist all these digusting furriners and will prostrate you self to them begging that they have their way with your cheap manhood?

It keeps coming back to this same thing is so many different subjects:
What are you guys so afraid of?

Or more importantly: why is irrational fear so central in your character?

[Roamy]

There is no irrational fear in my character. Most of the people and take a F____ing pole don't want aids people granted access to our country. Now you can call some BullSh~t fear but take the poll. I am sure you will probably hear more about this in the coming weeks.

You claim to be some vast history great - we wanted to be different than the Euros and hence our country became! Now you want us to adopt the government and principals that this country chose to leave behind. The answer is simple for you MOVE better yet as your buddy Soros says MOVE ON

[janvanvurpa]

There is no irrational fear in my character. Most of the people and take a F____ing pole don't want aids people granted access to our country. Now you can call some BullSh~t fear but take the poll. I am sure you will probably hear more about this in the coming weeks.

You claim to be some vast history great - we wanted to be different than the Euros and hence our country became! Now you want us to adopt the government and principals that this country chose to leave behind. The answer is simple for you MOVE better yet as your buddy Soros says MOVE ON

Fear permeates everything you and all your crazy friends here write.
And little fruedian slip there Fustina?
You want to take a pole?
Get a room!

I don't claim to be anything special Foostie. I have learned a bit of history because I am not an isolated monolinguistic hateful person, so i talk to those i work with, and I've worked around a bit.

You have some coginitive problems with this "we" thing and maybe a bit of a time-line problem. "We" left the "Euros"..

You been drinking again?
You drink a lot?

What's your name, and where does it come from? When did they come?

The 13 BRITISH colonies detached themselves from Britain, but after a while...in the 1830s to the 1920s TENS OF MILLIONS of the "Euros"
came here. Over 30 million, hell over 2,000,000 Italians alone between 1900 and 1910 when the US population was oh wait here we go:


The Thirteenth United States Census, conducted by the Census Bureau on April 15, 1910, determined the resident population of the United States to be 92,228,496, an increase of 21.0 percent over the 76,212,168 persons enumerated during the 1900 Census. The 1910 Census switched from a portrait page orientation to a landscape orientation.

We weren't that much different for a LONG time, we are from "Euro".
You really think people forget how they were raised in such a short time?

You're silly.

[Roamy]

Well JAnVan in the end being the near future we will see who is correct. If you left wingers can't win the next election I suppose I will be in search of a new country - hell maybe even a euro country such as italy spain portugal.
but probably South America. If we head down your road we are doomed to be a socialist follower; But if that is what the people of this country want to do then I can accept that and I will be happy to MoveOn. But if the capitalist and the right win then you can just move to Canada a mere 90 miles.

The nice thing about the current situation is that I really think it will define our direction. I am good with this. As you well know I want to totally Gut washington. But another Ronald Reagan era would suit me fine. IMO the entire congress needs to go and that would be a great undertaking. If you can sit there and say that our government is made up of no corrupt politicians on both sides then you are a total fool. But then again the "fools" may win as they have for many years. I suspect you don't really care about having a strong country and would probably just like to bend over and join the EU.
I have lived abroad and quite frankly don't mind it a bit. At the end of the day it may be what I chose to do, But until then I will never accept Pelosi Reid, Obama as true Americans. Your man Obama is a muslim terrorist in a brooks brothers suit. So if that is good for you so be it

[Dave B]

How in the hell did this M________F________ get elected???

Obama to lift HIV entry ban soon


Obama: "We need to be a global leader on Aids"
The US is to end its 22-year ban on people with HIV entering the country, President Barack Obama has confirmed.
Mr Obama made the announcement as he extended funding for an act that provides HIV/Aids related health care.
"If we want to be the global leader in combating HIV/Aids, we need to act like it," Mr Obama said.
The US is one of only about a dozen countries barring entry on HIV status. The ban is expected to be lifted at the beginning of 2010.
I genuinely did not know that the US had such a ban. Seriously, that's scary. Just how backwards-thinking were the idiots who approved that in the first place?

Land of the free, my arse.

[BDunnell]

There is no irrational fear in my character. Most of the people and take a F____ing pole don't want aids people granted access to our country. Now you can call some BullSh~t fear but take the poll.

Well, you and all those people DO have an irrational fear. It's very sad.

[chuck34]

I have learned a bit of history because I am not an isolated monolinguistic hateful person, so i talk to those i work with, and I've worked around a bit.

It's statements like that that make you seem exactly like what you try to paint "right wingers" as ... hateful and isolated. Not everyone thinks like you. Some of us are proud of our country. It is quite clear from many of your posts that you only want to marginalize any contribution the US has made to human history. That's fine, you're allowed your world view. But I hope that you do recognize that the US has not been some scurge on humanity.

To tie that into the discussion at hand, see these ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/17/george-bush-aids-africa
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/01/world.aids.day/index.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2262217/Analysis-How-George-W-Bush-became-an-African-hero.html

I could go on. But could it really be that George W. Bush, the most hated man in history, could have really done some good? Could he actually have a soul? Could it be that he really does have the best intrests of his fellow man at heart? ... Nah, couldn't be.


You're silly.

Right back at 'cha, bub.

[GridGirl]

That last post did make me chuckle. Deary me!

I can't see why the US would have previously banned people with Aids from entering the country when firstly the US is not an aids free country and secondly those with Aids would have to pay for their own healthcare more than likely anyway. Someone entering the country is no more likely to infect people than someone already in the country. Although to be fair, if you know you have aids then you must be one sick puppy if you do go on to infect other people.

[BDunnell]

I could go on. But could it really be that George W. Bush, the most hated man in history, could have really done some good? Could he actually have a soul? Could it be that he really does have the best intrests of his fellow man at heart? ... Nah, couldn't be.

There is a relevant point to be made about the level of national insecurity that brings about support for such bans, and that has a lot to do with the most recent Bush era. (But was it even Bush who brought in this ban? I thought it had existed for far longer.)

[Jag_Warrior]

Yeah, I think the ban was put on under Reagan. It was in the 80's anyway.

[Eki]

Yeah, I think the ban was put on under Reagan. It was in the 80's anyway.
Yes, and in the 80's it was an understandable decision, when they didn't know how contageous AIDS really was. I remember the scare mongers in the early 80's predicting that the cases of AIDS would double each year. I calculated that the whole Finland would be dead in 25 years after the first case of AIDS (2^25 is over 33 million cases of aids). In reality there has been less than 1000 cases of AIDS in Finland within the last 25 years. Anyway the risk wasn't as big as was feared and the ban should have been ended years ago.

[Eki]

And how are they going to verify if someone entering the US has HIV/AIDS? Asking in an airplane "Do you have a communicable disease, physical or mental disorder; or are you a drug abuser or addict?" is as stupid and futile as asking "Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you involved in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?" Like people can't lie:

http://www.visaconnect.com/acatalog/visa_waiver_esta.html

[BDunnell]

Yes, and in the 80's it was an understandable decision, when they didn't know how contageous AIDS really was. I remember the scare mongers in the early 80's predicting that the cases of AIDS would double each year. I calculated that the whole Finland would be dead in 25 years after the first case of AIDS (2^25 is over 33 million cases of aids). In reality there has been less than 1000 cases of AIDS in Finland within the last 25 years. Anyway the risk wasn't as big as was feared and the ban should have been ended years ago.

All very good points.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think you just want to not let people coming to your country that may want to take their disease and impose it upon your medical system. That said, the AIDS Ban is sort of a law that is still on the books because no one has thought to repeal it. In the 80's the threat seemed rational. We know now it isn't...

[anthonyvop]

And how are they going to verify if someone entering the US has HIV/AIDS? Asking in an airplane "Do you have a communicable disease, physical or mental disorder; or are you a drug abuser or addict?" is as stupid and futile as asking "Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you involved in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?" Like people can't lie:

http://www.visaconnect.com/acatalog/visa_waiver_esta.html

Apply for a visa to the US and find out. The questions about espionage and Naziz is to be able to use against them latter on.

An example are former Nazis who arrived in the US and became citizens. The US is a free country and there is no law against being a Nazi or a Communist but if they lied on their application they have ya.

[Eki]

Apply for a visa to the US and find out.
I don't have to. Finland belongs to the visa waiver program. When I've visited the US, they've just given me papers with those silly questions just before landing on the JFK airport, so no time to check what I answered. The customs also asked where I was going to stay during my visit. The answer "I don't know, some motels I find on the way" was good enough for them. Those questions are more humiliating than they are useful.

[chuck34]

There is a relevant point to be made about the level of national insecurity that brings about support for such bans, and that has a lot to do with the most recent Bush era. (But was it even Bush who brought in this ban? I thought it had existed for far longer.)

Didn't read my links at all did you? They were about how the Bush admin. has done more for people with AIDS and the prevention of the spread of the disease in Africa than any other President or any other country in the world.

As for the ban itself, I do think it was rational in the 80's when we didn't really know much about the disease. But since the mid to late 90's it's been a bit unecessary, I supose is the word. So why didn't Clinton drop it or Bush? I think it goes back to what Mark said, no one really thought too much about it. Has there been anyone recently barred from entry to the US based on their HIV status?

[Tomi]

Didn't read my links at all did you? They were about how the Bush admin. has done more for people with AIDS and the prevention of the spread of the disease in Africa than any other President or any other country in the world.

Lol, dont you think the african countries and the doctors there have done something them self too, i guess a bit more than the Bush crim.

[chuck34]

Lol, dont you think the african countries and the doctors there have done something them self too, i guess a bit more than the Bush crim.

*sigh* Look past your hatred for the man, and perhaps this country. Read the articles, and learn about what the generosity of this "evil" man and "evil" country has done.

[BDunnell]

Didn't read my links at all did you? They were about how the Bush admin. has done more for people with AIDS and the prevention of the spread of the disease in Africa than any other President or any other country in the world.

I didn't, but even so I hardly believe that he deserves to be held up as a shining example in this case, given the fact that, as far as I know, he has not been notably vocal about the Catholic Church's stance on the matter, which is one of the major problems faced when combating HIV and AIDS. Still, the same can be said of many world leaders who are fearful of offending such a major religion.



As for the ban itself, I do think it was rational in the 80's when we didn't really know much about the disease. But since the mid to late 90's it's been a bit unecessary, I supose is the word. So why didn't Clinton drop it or Bush? I think it goes back to what Mark said, no one really thought too much about it.

I think this is probably the case.

[Tomi]

*sigh* Look past your hatred for the man, and perhaps this country. Read the articles, and learn about what the generosity of this "evil" man and "evil" country has done.

Like what? I remember they did go down on medicine prices, after the African countries treathed to get them from somewhere else.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lol, dont you think the african countries and the doctors there have done something them self too, i guess a bit more than the Bush crim.

Ya? The same doctors needing western medical research for drugs to keep people with HIV living? The drugs PAID for by Bush's administration with no strings attached? No....we cant give the man any credit for THAT can we? Bono has said publically that Bush did a lot for Africa, and Bono is hardly anyone's example of a lap dog nor supporter of any politician of the right now is he? You could ignore all of that..and continue on like Eki on your anti-Bush tirade...or you could look it up for yourself.

Politics isn't a game..sometimes politicians do the right thing for the right reason..and they are people you don't expect.

[BDunnell]

Ya? The same doctors needing western medical research for drugs to keep people with HIV living? The drugs PAID for by Bush's administration with no strings attached? No....we cant give the man any credit for THAT can we?

Would your view of a politician going against free-market principles in such a manner be the same if that politician was not a right-winger? I can't help but doubt it.

[chuck34]

Christ people! Don't you see how ignorant you are being? And I mean ignorant in the textbook definition sence, lack of knowledge.

How can you comment on the subject when you, by your own admission, haven't read the stories, and don't know what they are talking about?

You are seriously showning your true colors. You REFUSE to admit that Bush could have ever done anything good in his life. He MUST be pure evil. And in order for you to keep that illusion in your mind, you won't even read anything that might possibly paint him in a good light.

If you can't be honest with yourselves, who can you be honest with? What type of life do you lead, when you refuse to read anything that might challenge your preconceived notions? Isn't that what the "left" is always acusing the "right" of doing?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Would your view of a politician going against free-market principles in such a manner be the same if that politician was not a right-winger? I can't help but doubt it.

Not in this case Ben. I have no problem with foreign aid and charity when it is done in a way that will not be lining some dictators pockets. Obama hasn't cut any of that aid and the US has spent a lot of money in Africa and done a lot more good than anyone wants to admit.

People have to realize that western nations, no matter who is in charge must try to help with humanitarian aid and technical aid in ways they haven't always in the past. The issues in Africa and much of the underdeveloped world tho wont be solved merely by tossing money at them. THAT has corrupted a few leaders over the years. Aid in the form of medicine given out by NGO's with a reliable record of not supporting corruption is a very noble thing.

[chuck34]

Would your view of a politician going against free-market principles in such a manner be the same if that politician was not a right-winger? I can't help but doubt it.

This was charity, pure and simple. And I don't know any right-winger who is against charity. Left-wingers? ... Jury is still out.

[Mark in Oshawa]

This was charity, pure and simple. And I don't know any right-winger who is against charity. Left-wingers? ... Jury is still out.

Now Chuck, I am sure they like charity. Why the left wing politicans in the US only donate about 10% of what the right wingers do to true charities right? That was the figures I had heard. Gallup or someone did survey work on that going into the last election. So they like charities....just they think government would do it better....

[BDunnell]

Christ people! Don't you see how ignorant you are being? And I mean ignorant in the textbook definition sence, lack of knowledge.

How can you comment on the subject when you, by your own admission, haven't read the stories, and don't know what they are talking about?

You are seriously showning your true colors. You REFUSE to admit that Bush could have ever done anything good in his life. He MUST be pure evil. And in order for you to keep that illusion in your mind, you won't even read anything that might possibly paint him in a good light.

If you can't be honest with yourselves, who can you be honest with? What type of life do you lead, when you refuse to read anything that might challenge your preconceived notions? Isn't that what the "left" is always acusing the "right" of doing?

You are assuming that I, for example, would have no knowledge on the matter were it not for reading some links that you posted. Bit arrogant of you, isn't it? No, I didn't read your post, but neither did I read quite a lot of others.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well Ben, the gent Chuck is frustrated with isn't you, it is Tomi, who just keeps his mantra going, just like the sheep in Animal Farm.

[BDunnell]

Well Ben, the gent Chuck is frustrated with isn't you, it is Tomi, who just keeps his mantra going, just like the sheep in Animal Farm.

I clearly see the phrase 'Christ people' at the start of his post, which indicates more than one person.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I clearly see the phrase 'Christ people' at the start of his post, which indicates more than one person.

Ya...but he would be likely wrong to single a person out and risk the wrath of a moddy eh?

[Eki]

Now Chuck, I am sure they like charity. Why the left wing politicans in the US only donate about 10% of what the right wingers do to true charities right? That was the figures I had heard. Gallup or someone did survey work on that going into the last election. So they like charities....just they think government would do it better....
I think it's better that government decides where the money goes than charity. It can spread it more evenly. If it's left only to charity, "warm and fuzzy" causes like sick children and lost puppies would get most of the money and causes like rehabilitation of drug addicts, alcoholics and former convicts would get little charity. The purpose of charity is partly to make the givers feel good and "better people" and not just help the needy.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think it's better that government decides where the money goes than charity. It can spread it more evenly. If it's left only to charity, "warm and fuzzy" causes like sick children and lost puppies would get most of the money and causes like rehabilitation of drug addicts, alcoholics and former convicts would get little charity. The purpose of charity is partly to make the givers feel good and "better people" and not just help the needy.

The government in a lot of nations doesn't fix all those problems. Often, they can be treated, never fixed. AS for them spreading the money evenly, there is your socialist mindset again. The gov't should priortize, but charity is WAY more efficient in how they spend their money, and they are in it because they believe in it, not because it is a paycheck like some useless bureaucrat.

What you always fail to acknowledge Eki is government doesn't spend money efficiently AT all. Never has. Government should look after drug addiction, rehab for criminals and the like but lets also face a reality. Even in domestic issues such as this, groups like the John Howard society, Salvation Army and other United Way Charities here in Canada do far more good and spend money far more efficiently than the half assed efforts of the governments they work with. In my experience, government shouldn't run programs. They should be regulating and monitoring charities, and providing grants to one's who are making the progress society needs.

[Eki]

The gov't should priortize,
That's exactly what I was talking about. The government DOES prioritize by the need, charity prioritizes by what gives them the most good, fuzzy and warm feeling. Even when the sick kids and lost puppies have enough money people push them more to get that warm fuzzy feeling, and the "sick puppies" still don't get anything.

[Tomi]

Well Ben, the gent Chuck is frustrated with isn't you, it is Tomi, who just keeps his mantra going, just like the sheep in Animal Farm.

well, a few laps around the barn, and a little banjo picking makes him feeling better again :)

[chuck34]

You are assuming that I, for example, would have no knowledge on the matter were it not for reading some links that you posted. Bit arrogant of you, isn't it? No, I didn't read your post, but neither did I read quite a lot of others.

Your posts came off like you had no clue what the links were even refering to. And to basically condemn the man for all the good he's done because of one stance on one issue (Catholic stance on birth control, which actually would be a good way to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS because abstenence would stop the spread, but that's not even the point here), is just plain near sighted. You seem to only want to find flaws with the man to keep up your preconcieved notions.

[chuck34]

That's exactly what I was talking about. The government DOES prioritize by the need, charity prioritizes by what gives them the most good, fuzzy and warm feeling. Even when the sick kids and lost puppies have enough money people push them more to get that warm fuzzy feeling, and the "sick puppies" still don't get anything.

So now you're arguing AGAINST charity? You must be kidding, right?

[Eki]

So now you're arguing AGAINST charity? You must be kidding, right?

No, I'm not arguing against charity. I'm arguing that GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED SUBSIDIES are needed IN ADDITION to charity. You shouldn't leave people on mercy of good will of other people alone.

[BDunnell]

Your posts came off like you had no clue what the links were even refering to. And to basically condemn the man for all the good he's done because of one stance on one issue (Catholic stance on birth control, which actually would be a good way to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS because abstenence would stop the spread, but that's not even the point here), is just plain near sighted. You seem to only want to find flaws with the man to keep up your preconcieved notions.

Not true at all. But it is true that, to me, there is very little that can make up for his stance in other areas.

And I did have no clue what the links were referring to, because I hadn't read them. What's wrong with that? You are not, repeat not, the sole source of information available. Having researched HIV/AIDS in Africa some years ago when working in a different field this is not a subject with which I am unfamiliar, though I do concede that this was only a couple of years after Bush came to power, and that things may have changed thereafter.

[chuck34]

Not true at all. But it is true that, to me, there is very little that can make up for his stance in other areas.

And I did have no clue what the links were referring to, because I hadn't read them. What's wrong with that? You are not, repeat not, the sole source of information available. Having researched HIV/AIDS in Africa some years ago when working in a different field this is not a subject with which I am unfamiliar, though I do concede that this was only a couple of years after Bush came to power, and that things may have changed thereafter.

I know I am not the sole source of information. That is why I posted links. I don't expect you to believe me when I say Bush did a lot for HIV/AIDS in Africa. I thought that perhaps you could believe people like President Obama in his assessment of Bush's work on this issue.

"I salute President Bush for his leadership in crafting a plan for AIDS relief in Africa and backing it up with funding dedicated to saving lives and preventing the spread of the disease," Obama said in taped remarks to the Saddleback Civil Forum on Global Health

And it's not just AIDS either. Bush did a look of things for a lot of different causes throughout the world. But people's hatred for the man will not allow them to see that. This conversation is a PERFECT example of that. Liberals/left-wingers preaching about how people MUST except others' points of view, all while refusing to do the same. As Janvan likes to say to his "right-winger" enemies, "What are you guys so afraid of?"