McLaren to ditch Mercedes for BMW in F1 2010?

[CNR]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/153197/1/mclaren_to_ditch_mercedes_for_bmw_in_f1_2010.html

McLaren's partnership with engine-supplier Mercedes-Benz – believed to have been on rocky ground for some time – could culminate in divorce as soon as the end of the 2009 F1 World Championship campaign, it has been rumoured, with reports that BMW is set to fill the breach.

A number of factors are understood to have led to the apparent deterioration of the McLaren-Mercedes relationship, which since its foundation back in 1995 has yielded no fewer than four world championships (three drivers' crowns and one constructors' trophy) and 60 grand prix victories. Of late, however, the strength of the ultra-successful partnership has been assaulted by a number of scandals – from the 2007 'Spygate' row to reigning F1 World Champion Lewis Hamilton controversially being caught lying to race stewards following the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne this year.

That is believed to have left a bad taste in the mouth at Mercedes, and allied to the poor early-season performance of the aerodynamically ill-born MP4-24 – despite the Stuttgart manufacturer's engine widely-acknowledged to be the best on the starting grid – and contrastingly excellent form of Brawn GP, which the three-pointed star helped to save from extinction last winter, there has been increasing speculation in recent months that Mercedes is looking to switch its allegiance and acquire a shareholding in the ex-Honda F1 outfit instead.




the force india partnership is with McLaren ?
who will run Mercedes engines
Brawn redbull williams ?

[Sonic]

Time for my fave song;

Its called "the never gonna happen" song, and it goes something like this....

Never gonna happen, never gonna happen,
Never gonna happen, never gonna happen
Da da da

[Mark]

Never gonna happen indeed. Mercedes own a significant proportion of McLaren as I understand.

Interesting however that BMW is looking to remain as an engine supplier?

[jens]

Well, there have also been rumours about Mercedes considering to buy into Brawn and I was wondering, why do they need two "factory teams", so there might be more behind all that before we all start singing that song. :p : But I would wait for more evidence before speculating further.

And BMW won't remain as engine supplier. McLaren would simply buy their F1 engine division, which they may not need in the future any longer.

[AndyL]

And BMW won't remain as engine supplier. McLaren would simply buy their F1 engine division, which they may not need in the future any longer.

That's an interesting idea. We know McLaren are already building their own engine for their new road car. Buying up BMW's designs and tooling (and perhaps taking on some key people) would be a short cut to building their own F1 engines.

[veeten]

That's an interesting idea. We know McLaren are already building their own engine for their new road car. Buying up BMW's designs and tooling (and perhaps taking on some key people) would be a short cut to building their own F1 engines.


Only one problem with that...

Remember Ilmor, the previous builder of engines that was bought out by McLaren from Penske, only to be bought up by Mercedes later on?...

The problem is that they would be putting themselves back into the same problem of the F1 GTR back in the late 90's, where it used the BMW V12 engine while they were racing with Mercedes-backed power.

[N. Jones]

Never gonna happen indeed. Mercedes own a significant proportion of McLaren as I understand.

Interesting however that BMW is looking to remain as an engine supplier?

I would be VERY happy if BMW stayed on as an engine supplier. Even if the rumors are true and two teams do not make the grid five engines for twelve teams is pretty thin.

[Steve2009]

I'll believe it when I see it!

[ArrowsFA1]

Rumours. Fleetwood Mac made a great album about them :p

[UltimateDanGTR]

Rumours. Fleetwood Mac made a great album about them :p

:D dun dun dun, da da dun dun dun dun dun dun dun.........


Mclaren-Mercedes partnership is too strong IMO, I believe they cant break up, Merc make brilliant engines, Mac make brilliant cars (usually), so hopefully the good work between the two will continue.........

[christophulus]

Interestingly, this blog (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/engine-politics-in-f1/) is suggesting that McLaren might build their own engines by buying up some of the bits that BMW, Honda, possibly Toyota leave behind. Makes sense really, their new road car is going to have an in-house engine so why not their F1 cars?

[Lennat]

IF Merc and Mclaren wanna split, now is a pretty good time to do it actually. The BMW engine is still competitive, even if not quite as good as the Merc. In a few years time there likely won't be the same possibility to buy an up and running engine program as BMW would have shot it down even if the engine ip is still there of course. And Mercedes could be allowed to buy Brawn and supply Red Bull with engines in exchange for letting Mclaren get away from it commitments to Mercedes (Mclaren can veto those things otherwise from what I understand). So I could see it happen even if it is probably much more likely to not. :)

[Lennat]

Have to add though that I think this would be a stupid move by Mercedes as Mclaren is one of two proven top teams over a longer amount of time which can't be said about Brawn or Red Bull.

[Dave B]

Have to add though that I think this would be a stupid move by Mercedes as Mclaren is one of two proven top teams over a longer amount of time which can't be said about Brawn or Red Bull.
'Tis a gamble, isn't it? History says that Ferrari, McLaren and Williams are the most successful of the current F1 teams, and have been - on and off - for some time. Partnering with one of them would appear on the face of it to be the way to go. But who is to say that Brawn, for example, won't go on to re-write the history books?

[Rollo]

Never gonna happen indeed. Mercedes own a significant proportion of McLaren as I understand.

You understand correctly.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56174&type=news&id=56174
or for those without subscription
http://www.autosport.com/subs/login.php?r=http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56174&type=news&id=56174

The current shareholding is:
Daimler AG 40% (Mercedes Benz)
Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company 30% (the Kingdom of Bahrain)
Ron Dennis 15%
Mansour Ojjeh 15% (of Techniques d'Avant Garde Group ie TAG Heuer)

Mercedes could in theory stop supplying engines but considering that their parent company owns McLaren, who be foolhardy enough to then supply engines to what would effectively be their holding company? There'd be a trade secret problem of the highest technological calibre.

I'm calling shenaningans on this story and put it down as being the regular filler type crud from crash.net.

[Lennat]

'Tis a gamble, isn't it? History says that Ferrari, McLaren and Williams are the most successful of the current F1 teams, and have been - on and off - for some time. Partnering with one of them would appear on the face of it to be the way to go. But who is to say that Brawn, for example, won't go on to re-write the history books?

Could happen, but I think Mclaren is a much safer bet still.

If Brawn is able to match Mclaren and Ferrari next year i will be much more convinced as they will not have had the huge time advantage like this year when designing the car. In that sense I almost expect more from Red Bull next year as they didn't write of 2008 like Honda and still made a great car, but time will tell. :)

[Mysterious Rock]

I was thinking though, is it a ploy so that ultimately they can supply more engines to the field in F1, maybe a Mclaren engine with merc traits, could mean they could supply 6 teams, the groundwork done, and potentially a good money spiner, plus also if cosworth dont stay with it they can pick up this trade also??
Or I may be barking

[Saint Devote]

This is an exceptional silly season story - almost winter season quality and the season has not even ended yet!

I am sure the story mill will generate real whoppers during the closed season after Nov 1 and prior to Mar 15.

[CNR]

http://motoring.asiaone.com/Motoring/Motorworld/Story/A1Story20091006-172122.html

there are no Germans flying the flag at Mercedes-Benz partner McLaren. Since the German carmaker wants a German driver, and Merc supplies engines to Brawn, Rosberg looks like the perfect pick because he races as a German in F1.
Or Nico could be replacing Englishman Jenson Button because Mercedes is owned by Daimler, for which Brazil is a key market. Guess what? Barrichello doesn't wax but he is definitely Brazilian.


http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/drivers/818/

Adrian Sutil ?

[Mark]

I do like the idea that McLaren could build their own engines. But there's a problem there in that they obviously would have to fund it somehow, and without Mercedes behind them to do that, how are they going to pay for it?

[V12]

I do like the idea that McLaren could build their own engines. But there's a problem there in that they obviously would have to fund it somehow, and without Mercedes behind them to do that, how are they going to pay for it?

I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread...I guess they'd better sell a hell of a lot of those new sportscars! I guess it worked for Ferrari who traditionally funded their racing team off the back of sportscar sales, but McLaren aint Ferrari, and even they now have a major auto manufacturer backing them (FIAT).

Although another way of looking at it is if Mercedes were the ones forcing the issue, wanting to leave McLaren and buy into Brawn, and McLaren were going to have to go the customer engine route anyway, then this would make more sense. But that's just speculation on my part.

Put me in the "I'd love to see this happen, but I don't think it will" camp.

[AndyL]

I was thinking though, is it a ploy so that ultimately they can supply more engines to the field in F1, maybe a Mclaren engine with merc traits, could mean they could supply 6 teams, the groundwork done, and potentially a good money spiner, plus also if cosworth dont stay with it they can pick up this trade also??
Or I may be barking

Another good theory... this story is generating a lot of interesting possibilities, even if it is a "silly season" story :)

[christophulus]

I wasn't quite thinking about the BMW element here but it seems there was alot of discussion in Abu Dhabi at the weekend between Mclaren and Mercedes. Obviously this has been discussed before on here about Mclaren maybe building their own engines, but this article I found rather interesting.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/mercedes-benz-and-mclaren/

I'd love to see this happen, especially if a deal can be struck where Mercedes supply engines for 2 season while Mclaren develop their own. Plus if they are simply and engine supplier and not a shareholder, Mercedes can be dropped from the name in effect. Certainly explains the main reason why Ron was in the paddock considering it wasn't a championship they were in contention with.

Exciting stuff, although its really only rumours.... :)

Very interesting. Mercedes must be really desperate to control a team if they're considering paying off McLaren with such a huge sum of money.

For what it's worth (not a lot I imagine), Norbert Haug said Mercedes have no intention (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79991)of separating from McLaren...

[I am evil Homer]

Buying the BMW engine side makes sense for McLaren if that's the way they want to go...ironic it could be with Merc's money! Then McLaren can turn around and sell engines to other teams potentially.

Where does that leave Force India though? Mercedes would only be offering an engine then and no other expertise unless Brawn created a similar tie-up

[ioan]

If Mclaren bought the BMW engine department, wouldn't this be problematic due to its location reletive to where the manufacturing base is? :)

Not since internet was invented.