Williams's future?

[ratonmacias]

what do you think is up at Williams? Nico must leaving, they want out of the toyota engine and i dont know which sponsors they have lined up.

so chime in.

my dream scenario

Drivers:
Kimi
Hulkenberg

Engine:
Renault

New sponsor:
Telmex (lots of dough and if they impose later a pay driver it would a guy from my own hometown sergio perez)

real world
Barrichello
Hulkenberg

cosworth

frank's and patrick's checkbook.

[UltimateDanGTR]

i dont think williams would need to use cosworths, by the looks of it, renault will be struggling for buyers of their engines any way, so it looks like renault are realistic. I think Hulkneburg is a dead cert, and im not too sure about the barrichello situation, sensibility would see him stay at brawn, but F1 is never sensible.....

Kimi IMO is a wild bet, but if fernando will be in a red car next year, and massa as his team mate, then macca, renault or williams would be best bet for kimi, but id bank on Mclaren for him.

I hope they have the sponsors, everyone else including new boys look to have good sponsorship deals, so hopefully williams can follow suit.

[ratonmacias]

but why did Patrick Head say renault should be heavily punished if they were found guilty of the Singapore incident?

if they were after Renault engines shouldnt Patrick be more diplomatic?

[UltimateDanGTR]

I think head was really saying what the rest of the paddock were thinking. and diplomacy? this is F1........

[Sonic]

Well let's look at the engine options;

Mercedes - they've got too many teams already

Ferrari - LMAO

Toyota - well duh

BMW - even if they are not gone Williams burnt that bridge long ago.

Cossie - unlikely

Renault - The only remaining option.

[seb_sh]

The engine issue is very uncertain as there hasn't been much to go by and it looks like Williams is keeping their options open.

I think it depends on the Brawn-Mercedes deal that is rumored. If that happens I expect Nico to go to Brawn. Also in this case the team could get a Merc engine for letting Rosberg go. Following that it is unlikely that either JB or RB would find a seat at Williams (maybe RB if he agrees to race for peanuts) so Williams would be looking to get a good driver as cheap as possible also as Hulkenberg is a rookie they might want an experienced one as well. The ones I see as possibilities could be Trulli and Raikkonen(with all or part of the salary paid by Ferrari if the ditch him for Fred).

If the Brawn-Merc deal doesn't go trough Williams is in competition to get the 'last' Merc engine with Red Bull. They have and edge with Rosberg as they could trade him for the engine.

It seems to be all up in the air at the moment.

[DexDexter]

what do you think is up at Williams? Nico must leaving, they want out of the toyota engine and i dont know which sponsors they have lined up.

so chime in.

my dream scenario

Drivers:
Kimi
Hulkenberg

Engine:
Renault

New sponsor:
Telmex (lots of dough and if they impose later a pay driver it would a guy from my own hometown sergio perez)

real world
Barrichello
Hulkenberg

cosworth

frank's and patrick's checkbook.

Kimi will not drive for Williams. . :dozey:

[ratonmacias]

Kimi will not drive for Williams. . :dozey:

i know thats why i specified as dream scenario.

[Saint Devote]

Renault is the alternative to Toyota. The team had a long successful association previously and they currently run Renault Lagunas in the BTCC.

I think that definitely Hulkenberg should be in a Williams and if he has any sense, so will Rosberg.

Other than Nico then maybe Kubica, Heidfeld or Kovaleinen.

[Roamy]

but why did Patrick Head say renault should be heavily punished if they were found guilty of the Singapore incident?

if they were after Renault engines shouldnt Patrick be more diplomatic?

Because Patrick Head is a documented "idiot" How Frank got married to this guy I will never know!!

But I think that it is really still supertech engines powering the car. This of course is owned by Flavio so if Renault gets punted out of the series then Flavio will just be a engine supplier.

But with Barry Green and JV joining Williams and bringing cosworth it should be pretty exciting next year.

[Mark]

Why does everyone assume that Barichello is leaving Brawn? I think the most likely driver pairing for Brawn in 2010 is Button and Barichello, they seem to work extremely well together. Sure, Rubens may not have many more years in him but it's going blindingly well just now so any team boss would be a fool not to give him another year.

[Roamy]

I agree Mark and if anyone leaves Brawn it will be either Button or Brawn retires RB which now I believe would be a mistake. Let the "Lap Dog" drive as long as he can still walk..

[SGWilko]

Why does everyone assume that Barichello is leaving Brawn? I think the most likely driver pairing for Brawn in 2010 is Button and Barichello, they seem to work extremely well together. Sure, Rubens may not have many more years in him but it's going blindingly well just now so any team boss would be a fool not to give him another year.

I think the driver symbiosis is an important factor at Brawn. Whilst I appreciate they are fighting like cats and dogs on track, there does seem a genuine affection between the two that was cemented during the Honda wilderness years.

[Knock-on]

Rubens is fighting like a Terrier and driving better now than at any point in hhis career IMHO.

I don't know how hard he will take being beaten on a level playing field but I think he might even come back stronger next year.

Why get rid of a driver like that?

[Mark]

Certainly during the first half of the season it would seem to make sense to ditch Rubens as he was being regularly beaten by Button. But not any more. If it is down to the car or Rubens fighting like crazy during his best year in F1 who knows. But certainly if I were Brawn I'd be keeping my current pairing.

However there are rumours of discord inside the team between Rubens and Ross Brawn so you never know.

[ShiftingGears]

Needs a better technical team and strategists. Williams is a team that relies on fantastic cars to draw top drivers, moreso than other teams.

[christophulus]

Why does everyone assume that Barichello is leaving Brawn? I think the most likely driver pairing for Brawn in 2010 is Button and Barichello, they seem to work extremely well together. Sure, Rubens may not have many more years in him but it's going blindingly well just now so any team boss would be a fool not to give him another year.

Depends how much pressure Mercedes put on the team, especially if they buy out Brawn as has been rumoured. Having Button/Rosberg would keep them happy, especially if Raikkonen returns to McLaren.

As for Williams, I hope they bring in a relatively big name driver - by which I mean Barrichello/Heidfeld/Kubica (possibly) - alongside Hulkenberg who looks like a promising driver. The engine situation is quite another, Renault's units don't seem much better than Toyota, and if Renault leave the sport then their options are very limited.

[Sonic]

.....currently run Renault Lagunas in the BTCC.....

Eh? St D have I been transported back to 1997?

[ClarkFan]

Needs a better technical team and strategists. Williams is a team that relies on fantastic cars to draw top drivers, moreso than other teams.
Because they have a history of treating drivers like dirt if they don't perform as well as WilliamsF1 believes they should.....

Not as devious as Briatore, but they do have a long-standing reputation.

ClarkFan

[Jag_Warrior]

But with Barry Green and JV joining Williams and bringing cosworth it should be pretty exciting next year.

The what, the who, the huh???!!! :eek:

Barry Green? And JV, as in Jacques Villeneuve?

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?!

[Roamy]

The what, the who, the huh???!!! :eek:

Barry Green? And JV, as in Jacques Villeneuve?

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?!

I was just trying to verify if anyone reads my posts. Thanks Jag

Stay tuned for more!!

[N. Jones]

what do you think is up at Williams? Nico must leaving, they want out of the toyota engine and i dont know which sponsors they have lined up.

so chime in.

my dream scenario

Drivers:
Kimi
Hulkenberg

Engine:
Renault

New sponsor:
Telmex (lots of dough and if they impose later a pay driver it would a guy from my own hometown sergio perez)

real world
Barrichello
Hulkenberg

cosworth

frank's and patrick's checkbook.

I think they will go with Kubica or Heidfeld or maybe even Kovalainen (if one of them think that is a good place to go).
I think we all know that Hulkenberg is going to be there.
Maybe they go back to Renault, or they choose the Cosworth engine too.
Maybe they can persuade Honda to supply them engines. LD

[ClarkFan]

The what, the who, the huh???!!! :eek:

Barry Green? And JV, as in Jacques Villeneuve?

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?!
Maybe Uncle slipped on the keyboard and meant to type "Red Green" for his all-Canadian driver team:

http://www.redgreen.com/cast.htm

Although, being younger and more technically oriented, Red's nephew Harold is a likelier driver pick.

The Red Green team could also provide much more cost-effective design strategies, such as constructing the car entirely out of duct tape (the handyman's secret weapon) - which also makes the aerodynamics instantly modifiable. Regarding engines, there is a nearly endless supply of Chrysler K-car blocks available, again at a massive cost saving. The Green Group has already started in race car design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0d_KEiIHiU

;)

ClarkFan

[jens]

Regarding Barrichello-Brawn situation: as Mercedes is looking to buy into Brawn, it could pave Rosberg's way into the team. Actually if Alonso indeed goes to Ferrari, I personally expect Rosberg and Räikkönen to share the second Brawn/McLaren drive between them. If Alonso doesn't go to Ferrari, Barrichello has a chance to stay in Brawn.

The future of Williams? They haven't reached top level for some time already and looking at Force India's sudden progress, who arguably is racing on a smaller budget than Williams, I must assume Williams' issues can't lay mainly on finances. It feels like the team has 'lost' something after Sam Michael became chief designer in 2005. Also the engine question could be vital here. FI is doing well with MB's, so maybe Williams could finally get close to the top as well if they got MB for 2010? Anyway, I reckon with Renault engine not much is going to change in their competitiveness and with Cosworth... suspect a downwards swing.

Drivers? Hülkenberg will surely join the team and considering his pre-F1 career has been at least as impressive as Hamilton's, I would recommend to follow this kid closely next year - he could become the revelation of the season. If someone like Barrichello/Heidfeld joins him, Nico2 ( :p :) would get a perfect benchmark for his debut season. I guess those two are the main contenders for the Williams drive at the moment, although some hazy Kovalainen rumours have existed as well. Those rumours might actually become a reality if Rubens indeed stays at Brawn and Heidfeld opts to stay in post-Sauber.

[christophulus]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/movements-on-the-driver-market/


Kubica seems to be keen to move to Williams, which he sees as being a team that knows how to win. The problem is that Renault F1 wanted Kubica to replace Fernando Alonso as there are no other star names available and was blocking the Williams engine deal if the team signed Robert. The word at Monza was that if Kubica does not join Williams the job will go instead to Rubens Barrichello, who will swap drives with Nico Rosberg, who is the choice of Mercedes-Benz for Brawn.

This is the problem that Williams have - without a manufacturer they get second choice in the driver market. Kubica could be a good choice but Renault have the final say in who to supply engines to.

[ratonmacias]

things are not looking good for williams. they wanted to run mercedes engines but according to autosport the request has already been denied by mercedes. their second choice would be renault but renault is in deep creek without a paddle their third choice would be cosworth or toyota with kazuki. and besides ending up with a ty engine the decision isnt made yet so there wont be much time to design a chassis around the turd they end up with.

[rabf1]

"there wont be much time to design a chassis around the turd they end up with"

Brawn dropped a merc in their car designed for a honda engine and it worked fine.

[ioan]

things are not looking good for williams. they wanted to run mercedes engines but according to autosport the request has already been denied by mercedes. their second choice would be renault but renault is in deep creek without a paddle their third choice would be cosworth or toyota with kazuki. and besides ending up with a ty engine the decision isnt made yet so there wont be much time to design a chassis around the turd they end up with.

They can still ask Ferrari to supply them with what is a great engine.
Oh wait, they didn't really make friends with Ferrari for ages. :\

[ioan]

I don't think they are that desperate yet dude, I think they'll ride out the Renault storm, or maybe they'll raid their display room at Grove... :p

Or they will install push pedals, but they will never ask for a Ferrari engine never ever, better dead than a Ferrari engine in a Grove based car! :laugh:

[ratonmacias]

"there wont be much time to design a chassis around the turd they end up with"

Brawn dropped a merc in their car designed for a honda engine and it worked fine.

two keywords here:

brawn
mercedes

as much as i like williams (fovourite team) they dont have a person as good as ross on their staff and they wont have as good engines as a mercedes.

[Valve Bounce]

OK, no links. I've read that many links and stories regarding Renault that I'm not going to provide references to the following.

It seems that Frank is keen on getting Renault engines but Sleazy Flav was blocking it because Frank was also keen on Kubica. Following the latest developments at Renault, with the departure of Flav, things might work out OK.

The, there is the case of Red Bull not being overly happy with the engines they've been getting from Renault. This is then complicated by the hearing on Monday and any punishments meted out, which could see the end of Renault's participation in the remainder of the competition this year, which may then see Renault's departure from F1.

This would play into Frank's hand because Renault may still wish to see the name Renault associated with F1, even if they didn't run their own team. We may yet see Frank's return to the halcyon days of Rothmans Sonax Williams Renault, albeit with slightly different sponsors.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Global Economic Crisis in regards to sponsorship, as the crisis is all but over already and by next year, sponsors will be rushing back to sponsor a possible winning team.

[ratonmacias]

hopefully valve's hunch is correct and williams is able to get kubica, hulkenberg and renault. that would be a step up in engines and the driver pairing is stronger.

[Malbec]

Why does everyone assume that Barichello is leaving Brawn? I think the most likely driver pairing for Brawn in 2010 is Button and Barichello, they seem to work extremely well together. Sure, Rubens may not have many more years in him but it's going blindingly well just now so any team boss would be a fool not to give him another year.

I agree but the driver market is wide open this year, Rosberg and possibly Kimi are up for grabs and BMW's demise means Kubica and Heidfeld are also looking. Next year many of the best guys on the market would have been snapped up so this is the ideal time to get someone young and fast.

As for Williams, I hear they've been busy recruiting staff recently and ditching free Toyota engines means they'll have to pay for someone elses engine whether its Renault or whoever. Seems like they've come into some cash recently, would love to know where from....

[Saint Devote]

Or they will install push pedals, but they will never ask for a Ferrari engine never ever, better dead than a Ferrari engine in a Grove based car! :laugh:

Better ded than red - always.

[Saint Devote]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Global Economic Crisis in regards to sponsorship, as the crisis is all but over already and by next year, sponsors will be rushing back to sponsor a possible winning team.

Heard of "double-dip"?

Anyway, I agree that the ideal Williams team for 2009 would be Kubica and Hulkenberg for Grove but with a Mercedes engine.

I think the Renault team success without Briatore, unless they secure the services of Dave Richards, is permanently over.

If Kubica signs for Renault in 2010 he may as well go on a sea cruise and eat what he wants! The racing results will be the same, ZERO.

[Nikki Katz]

I do think it's most likely that they'll be using Cosworths next year, which is a shame as they're bound to be off the pace. Mercedes are providing enough engines as it is and have stated that they won't supply Williams; Ferrari will be supplying enough engines if Sauber make it, they seem to have fallen out with Toyota, possibly as a result of the FOTA break, and they may pull out anyway, and Renault are probably leaving when Max throws a large penalty at them as his final if I can't control F1 then nobody will move. Cosworth are the only option. I expect that they'll beat the new teams should any of them actually turn up, but I don't imagine they'll beat anyone else.

[ratonmacias]

well renault is still in f1 till 2011 so it might be possible to get renault engines.

maybe its kubica hulkenberg and renault or whoever (barrichello, heidfield, sutil, kimi rosberg) , hulkenberg and renault.