Mikkelsen in fatal rally accident - spectator died.

[A.F.F.]

What makes this really sad is that apparently the spectator was 10 years old girl. My swedish is terrible but as far as I understood, it's still uncertain if that girl was in marked spectator location.

http://www.expressen.se/Nyheter/1.1703990/vm-foraren-korde-ihjal-tioarig-flicka

I can't imagine how Andreas must feel now so I wish him strenght :( Also my condolences to the girl's family.

[Allyc85]

So, so sad to read this.

My thoughts are with everyone involved :(

RIP

[Hartusvuori]

Condolences to the girl's family and also strenght for young Mikkelsen who must have had the most terrible day of his life.

Is it just me or are the news of fatal rally accidents coming in more regular this year than usual? This is like fourth or fifth time a spectator(s) had died this year in Europe alone - and there must be more.

EDIT:
* late March - three spectators died in Valasska Rally in Czech Republic
* early April - driver died after hitting a tree at the shakedown of Rallye Pasazavi in Czech Republic
* mid July - co-driver died in an accident at Rally Bulgaria (don't know the official name of the race)
* mid July - spectator died in an accident in Southern Estonia
* early August - spectator died in an accident at Harry Flatters Rally 09 in Wales
* mid September - spectator died in an accident in Norway

[Josti]

Terrible news, very sad. Condolences to the girl's family.

I also think it's going to be hard for Andreas to cope with this, especially because he's such a young driver.

[SubaruNorway]

I got to see inboard of cars before and after the accident and it was a jump on a slight left and he got a slide and hit the girl who was sitting in a chair 2m from the road on a straight 100m after the jump. Just a unforunate accident really.

Read she was a eager motorsportfan too so very sad :(

[JFL]

Terrible news! And it's also a shame to see how some of the media cover this! This could have happened to everbody (Quote Mats Østberg who just passed the accident point b4 Mikkelsen) The spectators were in a "safe" area, but then again.. nothing is safe.. a car can loose it brakes,, a tyre may blow.. +++
Some of the media covered this by showing all(3) fatal accident the last 15 years(or so) and some covered it in a very sensible way! .. Let's just hope not this get any consecuenses for further rallying in Norway..
RIP girl, and all thoughts to the family and friends of the girl... and Team Mikkelsen..

[MJW]

Condolences to the girl's family and also strenght for young Mikkelsen who must have had the most terrible day of his life.

Is it just me or are the news of fatal rally accidents coming in more regular this year than usual? This is like fourth or fifth time a spectator(s) had died this year in Europe alone - and there must be more.

EDIT:
* late March - three spectators died in Valasska Rally in Czech Republic
* early April - driver died after hitting a tree at the shakedown of Rallye Pasazavi in Czech Republic
* mid July - co-driver died in an accident at Rally Bulgaria (don't know the official name of the race)
* mid July - spectator died in an accident in Southern Estonia
* early August - spectator died in an accident at Harry Flatters Rally 09 in Wales
* mid September - spectator died in an accident in Norway

I got the same feeling too.

[JFL]

http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/indeks/183567

[Mirek]

* early April - driver died after hitting a tree at the shakedown of Rallye Pasazavi in Czech Republic

I know it changes nothing on terrible news but this was a little bit different story. The driver didn't die in a crash but the crash was caused by his sudden death from cerebral apoplexy.

[Rallyper]

Was this a tarmac rally. In that case I can see a pattern here - tarmac.

The tarmacsurface makes the cars unpredictible and they can go off anywhere as may be the cause of why people are often getting hit by cars going off...

[Juha_Koo]

Was this a tarmac rally. In that case I can see a pattern here - tarmac.

The tarmacsurface makes the cars unpredictible and they can go off anywhere as may be the cause of why people are often getting hit by cars going off...

I was about to say the same after Hartusvuori posted the list, but I somehow decided not to say it out loud. But yes, I also see the pattern...

[Mirek]

I'm from tarmac rally country and I tend to agree with You, guys. Tarmac is more dangerous surface. There are more dangerous sudden changes of grip (i.e. some dirt, water, bumps, stones thrown on the road), if something unpredictable happens, driver has much shorter time to react and as said the way the car went off is hardly predictable.

[SubaruNorway]

I heard today that tarmac rallies in Sweden are banned because of this?

[kolvas]

I heard today that tarmac rallies in Sweden are banned because of this?

That´s correct, we only have sprint-rally on tarmac an small parts on stages with tarmac

[OldF]

The worst thing with this accident is that it was a child that was killed. I must say I don’t like the way the Expressen is writing about the accident in its headlines, “WRC driver killed a ten year old girl”.

[Mirek]

In the accident on Valašská rally those killed were also two children and father of one of them. Press was talking about how dangerous the cars are for people but didn't comment how stupid the father was to stand with children on the edge of the road outside a flat out corner after a jump ignoring other people who were shouting on them...

[Hartusvuori]

I must say I don’t like the way the Expressen is writing about the accident in its headlines, “WRC driver killed a ten year old girl”.

Finnish version from Ilta-Sanomat (http://www.iltasanomat.fi/urheilu/uutinen.asp?id=1729607) is even worse: "Andreas Mikkelsen drove a 10 year old girl to death", like meaning it was intentional. You can't write such a headline until sentenced from manslaughter...

And thanks Mirek for the correction - I didn't know more of the facts.

[Juha_Koo]

That´s correct, we only have sprint-rally on tarmac an small parts on stages with tarmac

Is that the only reason? Or do you have the same problem as we here in Finland - the lack of suitable tarmac roads? It's impossible to make a tarmac rally in Finland because it would be waaaay too fast...



I must say I don’t like the way the Expressen is writing about the accident in its headlines, “WRC driver killed a ten year old girl”.

Same s*it in the Finnish "media" too.

[Hartusvuori]

] --- but didn't comment how stupid the father was to stand with children on the edge of the road outside a flat out corner after a jump ignoring other people who were shouting on them...

At this year NORF on Friday at Mökkiperä 2 I witnessed a mother of two running on stage with BABY STROLLERS at the time cars were only minute apart. She made it clear from junction to junction (some 50 m), marshall was making it clear for her how stupid move she'd made - but after there was a bigger gap between cars she was once again running on stage. Father - clearly drunk - was running behind with the older kid, at once literally dragging the kid along as he heard the whistle for arriving car and the kid paniced.

So clearly - no matter how sad and unfortunate - these accidents are sometimes just waiting to happen, and saying that I don't point out to any of the accidents that've happened because I of course don't know all the facts.

[Langdale Forest]

Very sad news. :(

[Tomi]

yes, very sad news :( Looks that I dont have to buy Ilta-Sanomat anymore either.

[cut the b.s.]

very sad news, even worse that a child has died, thoughts with all involved

[Francis44]

Very sad news :( . Poor young girl, my condolences to the family.


And i wish Mikkelsen recovery from this accident!!!!

[Maui J.]

Very sad news indeed.
I hate reading about these things. All too common in this sport.

[Koz]

RIP Girl. Thought with the family. Also for Mikkelsen.

Very sad how media brands him a murderer. He's going to have to live forever with the knowledge that he has killed a child. No need to the poor guy up even more.

[WRCfan]

Sad news to wake up to...

Condolences to all involved and I hope Andreas has the strength to work through this.

As for the media, they need to be made an example of!

[J4MIE]

:(

[N.O.T]

really sad news and the fact that a child is involved makes it even worse... :(

[pino]

Very very sad :(

[Zeakiwi]

I extend my sympathies to all those involved in the accident.

Alex Fiorio and Kenneth Eriksson both had serious accidents involving spectators and went on with their driving careers. I hope Mikkelsen can recover from this.

[WRC1]

as a father and rallyefan i can maybe a little bit imagine how both sides feel....

my deepest condulences to the parents of the little girl and all the strengh for andreas and ole to recover from this tragedy

[lcd]

I wish that never happened... :(

[kolvas]

Is that the only reason? Or do you have the same problem as we here in Finland - the lack of suitable tarmac roads? It's impossible to make a tarmac rally in Finland because it would be waaaay too fast...




Same s*it in the Finnish "media" too.
We had a couple of bad accidents in a short time period that was the reason to the decision, in one accident 2 spectators died and in one the codriver got really badly hurt, I don´t remember exactly what happend.
After theese accidents the commision took the decision that we didn´t have tarmac-roads that could be save enough for spectators or team.
We have alot of small and very tight tarmac roads that could be suitable but there are absolutely no way to make a mistake cause you´ll end up in a tree very hard.

My opinion is that rally should be on gravel or snow and ice because you can loose control over the car in very particulars places that no one could see.
There is one more way of seeing it, in Sweden Norway and Finland the organisation don´t have experience of tarmac rally, that could allso have a roll in this accidents

[alexlake]

It is very very sad, must be terrible for both sides.

But the driver cant be to blame, a lot of the blame should lie with the organisers. If the girl and her father were in a proper area, which it seems they were, then it should have been safe. I know any motorsport can have its risks, but generally when they set an area for spectators, it is overly safe.

[Sladden]

Sad and tragic!

As others have hinted at...There was a very serious accident on a swedish tarmac rally involving deaths in the early 2000s. I dont remember specifics, but the stage was averaging 140km/h. As I recall the nail in coffin for swedish tarmac rallies. I would not stand near the road on a tarmac rally.. the point of direction can just snap change. And with the stiff low car it will not take kind to ditches and bumps on the outside of roads, making a recovery even more difficult.

[tmx]

The worst thing with this accident is that it was a child that was killed. I must say I don’t like the way the Expressen is writing about the accident in its headlines, “WRC driver killed a ten year old girl”. I basically stop reading at websites with those kind of headlines. I haven't read crash.net for almost a year now since they like to make up craps.

[SubaruNorway]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Rally-Larvik-2009_707321.htm

[Halvis]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Rally-Larvik-2009_707321.htm

I hope this isn't a video of the accident?

[SubaruNorway]

I hope this isn't a video of the accident?

Of course it's not!

Sorry i didn't say what it was, it's just Østberg and Grøndal.

[bt52b]

Terrible news! And it's also a shame to see how some of the media cover this! This could have happened to everbody (Quote Mats Østberg who just passed the accident point b4 Mikkelsen) The spectators were in a "safe" area, but then again.. nothing is safe.. a car can loose it brakes,, a tyre may blow.. +++
Some of the media covered this by showing all(3) fatal accident the last 15 years(or so) and some covered it in a very sensible way! .. Let's just hope not this get any consecuenses for further rallying in Norway..
RIP girl, and all thoughts to the family and friends of the girl... and Team Mikkelsen..

Truly dreadful accident. Hope those affected can come to terms with it eventually.

Mikkelsen is compeletly blameless.

With respect to Mats Østberg, sitting in a chair, 2m from the road, 100m after a jump, is not a safe area.

If there is a quick approach for a junction, usually there is a requirement for at least 200m of an escape road. The danger area after a jump is at least 200m and a min' of 10m back from the road. Most experienced fans know this, they've witnessed these accidents before or seen the videos.

Tarmac is not the issue. Could easily happen on any surface if the jump area is not setup and run properly by the organisers.

Neither spectator or competitor rally safety is given the priority it should be with the FIA. Sadly it will take more than this for things to really change.

For starters, the fact that people can list off alot of accidents this year, following on from similar numbers of tragic accidents in recent years, is quiet shocking. In the aviation industry there is an awful phrase to describe this, tombstone technology. Only when enough people are killed will something be done.

[noel157]

Truly dreadful accident. Hope those affected can come to terms with it eventually.

Mikkelsen is compeletly blameless.

With respect to Mats Østberg, sitting in a chair, 2m from the road, 100m after a jump, is not a safe area.

If there is a quick approach for a junction, usually there is a requirement for at least 200m of an escape road. The danger area after a jump is at least 200m and a min' of 10m back from the road. Most experienced fans know this, they've witnessed these accidents before or seen the videos.

Tarmac is not the issue. Could easily happen on any surface if the jump area is not setup and run properly by the organisers.

Neither spectator or competitor rally safety is given the priority it should be with the FIA. Sadly it will take more than this for things to really change.

For starters, the fact that people can list off alot of accidents this year, following on from similar numbers of tragic accidents in recent years, is quiet shocking. In the aviation industry there is an awful phrase to describe this, tombstone technology. Only when enough people are killed will something be done.

+100.

[macksrallye]

Firstly, my sincere condolances to the family & friends of the young girl, and also to Mikkelsen, his team & the next competitors who would have come across this horific scene just minutes after.

Just a question to you guys in europe. Do you have designated spectator points/areas in each stage or is it up to the spectators to choose a safe position to watch from? I know that here in Australia we have one spectator point in a stage that is controlled by a team of marshals & is chosen by the organisers & advertised in the local shops etc. and it seems to work well (albeit not the best for spectacle but it is safe).

[Saabaru]

These are very sad circumstances and my sympathies go out to all involved. The fact of the matter is though, trying to regulate rally anymore will only be suggesting to some like the idiots who wrote those articles will be that the Rally was actually to blame. The one thing that happens much too often these days is that even though an accident might be entirely the victims fault, people try to blame someone innocent involved to protect or feel sympathy for the victim for some unknown reason. And no I’m not saying it was the little girls fault, she was only 10. I would however say her blood is on the hands of whoever the adult was in charge of looking after her at the time of the accident and that they should be prosecuted for her death. When it’s all said and done Mikkelsen and the event organizers are totally innocent, the girl’s guardian/guardians are to blame and no amount of rules or regulations can fix stupid.
When or why did society stop holding people responsible for their own actions?

[macksrallye]

So just because these sort of incidents are not always the fault of the organisers or competitors we should no longer strive for ways to make our sport safer for competitors & specatators alike... what rubbish!

[Saabaru]

Corral more people into crappy safety designated zones like they are blind sheep or go ahead and ban tarmac rallies and see how many spectators stop coming to events. Rally is already one step away from being a charity event, from local rallies all the way up to the WRC. One more undermining of the sport and it could be the end; fewer spectators = fewer sponsors= fewer rallies= even fewer spectators= no sponsors= no rallies…

[Woodeye]

Very sad news indeed.

I think it's 5-6 spectators killed this year, right? Should someone maybe react somehow to this apparent issue? Ok, in the end there's no resources to prevent people from following the rally from wrong places, but still I would like to see some actions from FIA's side.

[macksrallye]

Or take a step back 25years or so to Group B with spectators standing where they want hence increasing the risk of injury (and death for that matter) in an incident & have it cancelled/banned anyway.

I don't totally disagree Saabaru, but we can't just leave things as is, there has to be some way to make things better for all involved. With the "spectator points", if we can make it interesting enough (rather like they used to with bunnings/sotico in rally oz) then maybe it can work, but whatever we do we have to look further into ideas before dismissing them...

Once again, are there designated areas in europe or is it free roam?

[J4MIE]

Once again, are there designated areas in europe or is it free roam?

There are usually areas set up on events but the vast majority are not restricted and you can wander around wherever you want within reason. Here in the UK there are some non-spectator events but these are usually as a result of the landowners at a closed venue not wanting any issues caused by spectators.

[Iskald]

Truly dreadful accident. Hope those affected can come to terms with it eventually.

Mikkelsen is compeletly blameless.

With respect to Mats Østberg, sitting in a chair, 2m from the road, 100m after a jump, is not a safe area.

If there is a quick approach for a junction, usually there is a requirement for at least 200m of an escape road. The danger area after a jump is at least 200m and a min' of 10m back from the road. Most experienced fans know this, they've witnessed these accidents before or seen the videos.

Tarmac is not the issue. Could easily happen on any surface if the jump area is not setup and run properly by the organisers.

Neither spectator or competitor rally safety is given the priority it should be with the FIA. Sadly it will take more than this for things to really change.

For starters, the fact that people can list off alot of accidents this year, following on from similar numbers of tragic accidents in recent years, is quiet shocking. In the aviation industry there is an awful phrase to describe this, tombstone technology. Only when enough people are killed will something be done.

Agree with you on most counts. But not when you say that "tarmac is not the issue". Everybody involved in this sport - and as a former competitor I belong among them - knows that (dry) tarmac is much more unpredictable than any other road surface. As I in this instance also happen to have access to detailed information about Andreas Mikkelsen tragic accident, I can tell you that tarmac was definitely an issue in this case.

Even more of an issie was the fact that the girl was sitting in a chair, while the father and another person was standing on their feet right next to her. Both the two grown ups had time to react and run away, with some margin actually. The girl never got out of her chair.

So please, all rally fans, leave the camping chairs at home! Stand upright on your feet and be observant - at all times! It may well save your life - even when a rally car changes direction really abrupt and unpredictably.

[MrJan]

Here in the UK there are some non-spectator events but these are usually as a result of the landowners at a closed venue not wanting any issues caused by spectators.

I believe that some are insurance issues too.

Sad news but from the sound of it she wasn't in the best position. Right from the first rally I went to my father said never stand after a jump, never sit down and never, ever turn your back on a rally car because anything can happen.

The few times when I've gone against that advice have usually resulted in a scare, like at Epynt when I was sat down and the 0 car came through, got it sideways and was pointed straight towards me. I've never moved so fast in my life and was about 50 metres back in the trees by the time he sorted it out. Lesson learnt though.

[HaCo]

Jumps are so dangerous, almost everything a spectator dies a jump is involved... And why are such young people so close to the road? I don't understand it...

The driver is of course nothing to blame.

[GTA]

i was there on the rally and our driver was the 1st to stop at the accident, the only thing i want to say is that i praise the organiser for how the way they handled everything after the return of the teams to the service park.
they took the first 10 teams and they could speak about their experience and this helped many young drivers a lot in dealing with this tragic experience.
Do not forget that Andreas is only 20 and our driver is the same age, so a big impact for them all.
its a sad happening and sadly sometimes part of the sport, and many times without blame to the drivers that are involved.

[Koppomsbo]

i was there on the rally and our driver was the 1st to stop at the accident, the only thing i want to say is that i praise the organiser for how the way they handled everything after the return of the teams to the service park.
they took the first 10 teams and they could speak about their experience and this helped many young drivers a lot in dealing with this tragic experience.
.

Good, this is horrifying thing and its great that there is help nearby

[Sulland]

The family of the 10 year old girl who died, have told the Norwegian Rally drivers and supporters that they would like them to participate in during the Burial Ceremony this Friday at 1200. The girl was a real rally fan, and had looked forward to Rally Larvik for a long time.

For people that can not go themselves, the association of drivers in the national classes have been told by her family that they would appreciate flowers for the ceremony. People can order flowers from the flower shop below, and they will deliver to the church.

So if anyone here would like to pay their respect as an international rally fan, the option is there.

Email or call this flower-shop:
GRAVDAL BLOMSTER
Sentrum 21
3158, Andebu
NORWAY
[email:ubnynkhr]gravdalblomster@gmail.com[/email:ubnynkhr]
Telephone ext. +47 33443552

[CABAIO E'LONA]

very sad news for me... :(

[janvanvurpa]

Agree with you on most counts. But not when you say that "tarmac is not the issue". Everybody involved in this sport - and as a former competitor I belong among them - knows that (dry) tarmac is much more unpredictable than any other road surface. As I in this instance also happen to have access to detailed information about Andreas Mikkelsen tragic accident, I can tell you that tarmac was definitely an issue in this case.

Even more of an issie was the fact that the girl was sitting in a chair, while the father and another person was standing on their feet right next to her. Both the two grown ups had time to react and run away, with some margin actually. The girl never got out of her chair.

So please, all rally fans, leave the camping chairs at home! Stand upright on your feet and be observant - at all times! It may well save your life - even when a rally car changes direction really abrupt and unpredictably.

Agree.
Just a few seconds thought and anybody will agree that tarmac iitself gives more grip.
Tarmac on tarmac tires and decent set up meants higher corner speeds.

The most important thing is what the driver---me--expects.
I don't expect or count on fantastic absolute grip on gravel or snow-----
so it is no surprise if I don't have them..

We all expect good grip on tarmac.
Even wet tarmac--with the right tires, we expect grip.
Bearing in mind we can corner faster, which means we're faster down the straight and the regularity of the surface---we expect grip...


And are usually just along for the ride once we lose grip---unlike gravel, recoveries are rare. (And a fair amount of that is probably down to the shape of the footprint of the tires used.)

Tarmac=evil

[Iskald]

Agree.
Just a few seconds thought and anybody will agree that tarmac iitself gives more grip.
Tarmac on tarmac tires and decent set up meants higher corner speeds.

The most important thing is what the driver---me--expects.
I don't expect or count on fantastic absolute grip on gravel or snow-----
so it is no surprise if I don't have them..

We all expect good grip on tarmac.
Even wet tarmac--with the right tires, we expect grip.
Bearing in mind we can corner faster, which means we're faster down the straight and the regularity of the surface---we expect grip...


And are usually just along for the ride once we lose grip---unlike gravel, recoveries are rare. (And a fair amount of that is probably down to the shape of the footprint of the tires used.)

Tarmac=evil

I used to be a tarmac racer for many years (roundy-roundy stuff) and has driven thousands of kilometres with slicks on racing cirquits. But I have also been a codriver in rallying - and sat beside reading pacenotes in quite a few tarmac rallies. It is very interesting to note the total difference in these two disciplines. Most racing cirquits normally has an even and flat surface with few bumps (even the old Nürburgring...), while tarmac roads very often are uneven and bumpy, making the ride unpredictable and unstable. You just don`t find many jumps with "kickback" on a racing cirquit, while an unsuspecting looking small crest can give a lift-off on a normal road. A road is not a race cirquit, but in tarmac rallying we are trying to use the roads as exactly that. We run rally cars with stiffened and lowered suspension - and we use racing (slick) tyres. A properly set up tarmac rally car functions as a racing car, but is run on something very different from a racing cirquit.

We should also remember that a tarmac racing driver uses practice and qualifying to learn the track exact every yard round. During many laps you perfect your braking points and apexes .If there are any bumps or uneven patches you know about them, and you know exactly how the cars reacts when you drive across them.

Then turn to tarmac rallying. You do two passes of recce, writing the pacenotes and adjusting them - and the speed is maybe 50-60 km/h. Ever so often you have not driven the stages anytime before. You try to max out the pace notes to use the whole width of the road (sometimes even with cuts with one pair of wheels outside the road surface), and you are taking every possible chance to straightline any part of the road in your pace note description. You are going flat out from the start of the stage, with very little knowledge really about bumps and things that can make the car unstable. You just have to hope that the crest at 5.4 kms - in your notes it`s a keep max left flat over crest - turns out to be a nasty little jump kicking you towards the edge of the road. And if so is the case you will be a passenger instead of a driver, because when you correct your mistake you propably end up losing all your grip. But suddenly it grips again and the car changes direction so fast that you never will react fast enough. The next counterslide just throws you off the road. Exit left or right, and exit rally. This is tarmac rallying.

Tarmac isn`t evil in itself, but maxed-out tarmac rallying can be evil....

[Helstar]

Would a "gravel tyres only" rule help on the high-risk-mode in tarmac ?
Less cornering speed = less accidents ? The cars would even slide better = more show ... what do you think ?
And maybe also some cost saving because there would be one less different type of setup (no more tarmac one).

[N.O.T]

Tragic accidents will always happen no matter what...

once you deal with reality and life as it is you are going to make decisions a lot easier.....i doubt that the fatality was caused due to the speed of the car.

[Woodeye]

Tragic accidents will always happen no matter what...

once you deal with reality and life as it is you are going to make decisions a lot easier.....i doubt that the fatality was caused due to the speed of the car.

And exactly because of attitudes like this accidents happen.

The attitude should be that tragic accidents shouldn't happen ever in rally - at least to spectators. The main point of organizers of rallies should be to direct spectators to places where they simply cannot get hit by a car. Some areas should be banned completely and for professionals spotting these places is easy as a walk in the park.

A rally is no place to be a heroic spectators and to play a superman watching the cars as close as possible. That's no heroism, that's pure stupidity.

[J4MIE]

And exactly because of attitudes like this accidents happen.

The attitude should be that tragic accidents shouldn't happen ever in rally - at least to spectators. The main point of organizers of rallies should be to direct spectators to places where they simply cannot get hit by a car. Some areas should be banned completely and for professionals spotting these places is easy as a walk in the park.

A rally is no place to be a heroic spectators and to play a superman watching the cars as close as possible. That's no heroism, that's pure stupidity.

In the main I agree, however, as rally fans everywhere will know, there just is not anywhere at a rally stage that is completely safe, nor will there ever be. Cars going quickly down roads = dangerous.

The problem is that when you start restricting some parts of stages (which I agree with) then where do you stop? In the end there would be no spectating allowed. Unfortunately cars have a habit of going off where you least expect it, I have seen cars crash on straight flat bits of road with no obvious reason for it.

Education is the key.

[Tom206wrc]

;(


RIP to the young girl
Condolences to family
Good luck to Mikkelsen and codriver

[MrJan]

In the main I agree, however, as rally fans everywhere will know, there just is not anywhere at a rally stage that is completely safe, nor will there ever be. Cars going quickly down roads = dangerous.

The problem is that when you start restricting some parts of stages (which I agree with) then where do you stop? In the end there would be no spectating allowed. Unfortunately cars have a habit of going off where you least expect it, I have seen cars crash on straight flat bits of road with no obvious reason for it.

Education is the key.

:up: I've seen some spectator areas which are in silly positions, or overly crowded. At least when you roam free it is possible to stand away from others and have the space to leggit.

Like it or not there will always be accidents and tragedies, none of us want them and work is being done to reduce them. Accepting that it is a dangerous sport is actually a key part of reducing fatalities, people that understand the risks will be able to judge risk better whereas penning everyone into one spot will make people less aware of the dangers that they face on a stage.

[bluuford]

In the main I agree, however, as rally fans everywhere will know, there just is not anywhere at a rally stage that is completely safe, nor will there ever be. Cars going quickly down roads = dangerous.

The problem is that when you start restricting some parts of stages (which I agree with) then where do you stop? In the end there would be no spectating allowed. Unfortunately cars have a habit of going off where you least expect it, I have seen cars crash on straight flat bits of road with no obvious reason for it.

Education is the key.

Yeah, I was witness when one driver went off in the middle of the straight road before the jump in one of Estonian rallies this year. It was Civic Type-R, it was.. now it is completely destroyed. Something in suspension broke and car turned off the road in the middle of the tree stumps. Luckily everybody were ok. It was the first stage of the rally, first km and after the first corner.

[N.O.T]

And exactly because of attitudes like this accidents happen.

The attitude should be that tragic accidents shouldn't happen ever in rally - at least to spectators. The main point of organizers of rallies should be to direct spectators to places where they simply cannot get hit by a car. Some areas should be banned completely and for professionals spotting these places is easy as a walk in the park.

A rally is no place to be a heroic spectators and to play a superman watching the cars as close as possible. That's no heroism, that's pure stupidity.

here in greece a few weeks back a truck lost its wheel on the highway...the wheel travelled 6 lanes of highway of traffic and hit 2 austrian motorbikers who where resting at a highway resting area.....

Accidents will happen no matter what....slowing the cars down or moving spectators to areas where its like watching a rally on tv it won;t change things

Can we please sperate the thread of the little girl with the comments about the safety...i don;t find it proper to talk/argue about safety in a thread made for the poor little girl and her family.

[MrJan]

Can we please sperate the thread of the little girl with the comments about the safety...i don;t find it proper to talk/argue about safety in a thread made for the poor little girl and her family.

:up: +1