hi all

[penske15]

i am new to these boards, having come over from the speedboards. i have spent the better part of the last 10 years over there until i got the boot last month. i guess they just got tired of all of the reliable info and great pics. :) who knows? sorry if this is in the wrong place but i wanted to introduce myself(mods) and make it known that i am NOT a trouble maker or someone who gets a kick out of disharmony. i AM however, a vigorous debator and i back up nearly(hehe)everything i say with facts or pics. i have been published in the wall street journal, the san francisco chronicle and the dutch photo bank(doornbos pieces). not to mention(but i will) several local gigs with the indy star.

to put it bluntly, i love indy car with all of my heart. that love does bleed over to formula 1. not so much this year though. UGLY CARS!!! they actually make the dallara look decent. :) i've had the priviledge of being in most, if not all of the indianapolis based shops and have made some pretty good aquaintences along the way. i shopped around the message board kingdom for awhile before i settled here because you all seem to have a very nice balance between the members. forgive me for saying it but many of the boards are pretty friggin hostile.


SO......here i am. i have a photo archive with right at 20,000 photos of indy car, champcar, c.a.r.t., u.s.a.c. and of course, formula 1. in addition to being a photographer i am a professional mechanic, professional model builder and all around tinkerer. peace y'all, thanks for letting me run my mouth, erm.... or fingers. penske 15

[Jag_Warrior]

Welcome aboard. The original Speedvision boards used to be fun (there were only about 4 of us who posted regularly). The new Speed board is... er... well, it's sort of like Speed itself: interesting in the same way that whistling as you walk past a graveyard is interesting. And that's too bad really. But we need new blood here, so welcome! :wave:

[SarahFan]

welcome

[bblocker68]

Welcome aboard. This place needs a shot in the arm. It'll be good to see some new blood :)

[Chris R]

welcome aboard - if you have a good photo archive please check out the old "name that car" thread - I think we have pretty well run out of good photos!!

[anthonyvop]

that love does bleed over to formula 1. not so much this year though. UGLY CARS!!! they actually make the dallara look decent. :)

Your 1st post and with that statement you have lost all credibility.

Welcome aboard.

[drewdawg727]

welcome, sir...we tend to get a little heated over here!!

[SoCalPVguy]

You'll be fine and welcomed as long as you don't start insisting that Danica will have the fastest lap, Danica will win the pole, Danica will win the race, Danica will be series Champ, Danica loves my creepy stalker garage memoribilia ... every freakin' day of the year !!!

[Chris R]

Your 1st post and with that statement you have lost all credibility.

Welcome aboard.

now, for a truly ugly racer take the F-1 front wing and put it on the Dallara!!! :eek:

[TURN3]

You'll be fine and welcomed as long as you don't start insisting that Danica will have the fastest lap, Danica will win the pole, Danica will win the race, Danica will be series Champ, Danica loves my creepy stalker garage memoribilia ... every freakin' day of the year !!!

But all of this is so true! So the truth cannot be stated on this forum?

Wherfore arth thou DanicaFan!!?

[methanolHuffer]

I think I remember the Speedvision site before it was closed the first time. Found this place, then I came here on and off.
I didn't even know the Speed board went back up.

Welcome, and look forward to seeing your picture collection.

[penske15]

WOW GUYS(and gals?). thanks for the welcome. i'm sure that the warm fuzzies won't last much beyond this but hey, it was still very nice. SO, how about a link to that photo thread or ......are you gonna make me work for it? :)

[Jag_Warrior]

I think I remember the Speedvision site before it was closed the first time. Found this place, then I came here on and off.
I didn't even know the Speed board went back up.

Yeah, there were at least two versions of the old Speedvision board. SamC was there (who I think is still on Track F###m). And there was a fun as hell guy named Dave Ware (from Ohio maybe) who was sort of my partner in crime in tormenting SamC. Derek Daly posted there, and once got me straight (rightfully so) when I criticized Sam Posey (not realizing that he had a serious illness).

Then there was another version from Speedvision, and all kinds of people showed up out of the blue. That's where I first encountered many of the names that have populated various AOWR boards far and near ever since: Defender, Wilke (maybe?), et al. I don't remember if Indycool was there or not.

Then Fox came in with Speed and it's been a hellish trip down the toilet ever since (IMO) - for the network and for the forums. Still some good race fans there, but whoever set that board up knows less about IT than I do.

If we can just get more people back in here, I think this will be one of the better (neutral) places to be going forward. For the extremists, they have spots to listen to preaching to the choir. I prefer this place: very good balance of reality and hope for the future.

[anthonyvop]

now, for a truly ugly racer take the F-1 front wing and put it on the Dallara!!! :eek:
Anything on a Dallara ICS car is ugly.

[penske15]

Anything on a Dallara ICS car is ugly.

i know i'm gonna get blasted for this but.....in person, the dallara is really not all that bad. i've seen worse. i love the raw materials anyway. i cannot wait for a new car though. :vader: the empire of honda and dallara must be stopped!! erm, at least whittled down a bit.

[NickFalzone]

Anything on a Dallara ICS car is ugly.

They look good on the ovals, ugly on the road courses. IMO of course. And I wouldn't count on the new car looking better.

[drewdawg727]

But all of this is so true! So the truth cannot be stated on this forum?

Wherfore arth thou DanicaFan!!?

Probably adding his current piece of used chewing gum onto the Danica shrine in his closet...

[ykiki]

Welcome!! Can't wait to see some of your pics posted here.

[penske15]

Your 1st post and with that statement you have lost all credibility.

Welcome aboard.
that's funny. i'm not credible because i dislike the current f1 and dallara? i hope your kidding. :)

[penske15]

They look good on the ovals, ugly on the road courses. IMO of course. And I wouldn't count on the new car looking better.

yea, i wasn't encouraged by barnhardt saying that the car was "radically different." god i hope it looks good. i love the sport but there is only so much ugly one man can take.

[penske15]

Welcome!! Can't wait to see some of your pics posted here.

my opportunity to kiss a little butt has come around so, i'll bite. is there anything in particular you'd like to see?

[bravefish]

my opportunity to kiss a little butt has come around so, i'll bite. is there anything in particular you'd like to see?

Yip I'd like to see you change your user name to TCGR15

[penske15]

Yip I'd like to see you change your user name to TCGR15
hehe...fraid not. :monkeedan , i will do a little gig.

[Easy Drifter]

Welcome. Don't pay any attention to Anthony VOP (Tony). He is so far out he eats his lunch on the the planet Uranus.
I am going to pay for that one!
I on the other hand am all sweetness and light!
See my Sig!

[harvick#1]

welcome, great to see some new blood :wave:

[anthonyvop]

Welcome. Don't pay any attention to Anthony VOP (Tony). He is so far out he eats his lunch on the the planet Uranus.

You wish i would eat off of Uranus!

I am going to pay for that one!
You were right.


Come on. The general consensus is the that the current IRL Dallara is obe ugly beast.

[harvick#1]

I'll agree to that Anthony :laugh: :up:

[DBell]

Welcome penske15. I'm also looking forward to any pictures you may share.


If we can just get more people back in here, I think this will be one of the better (neutral) places to be going forward. For the extremists, they have spots to listen to preaching to the choir. I prefer this place: very good balance of reality and hope for the future.

I think this part of Jag's post sums this place up well. We do need a some more people for this forum. It's fairly civil and respectful, rarely any bannings (at least in the Indycar section). Good to see you aboard. :)

[penske15]

Welcome penske15. I'm also looking forward to any pictures you may share.



I think this part of Jag's post sums this place up well. We do need a some more people for this forum. It's fairly civil and respectful, rarely any bannings (at least in the Indycar section). Good to see you aboard. :)

thanks for the massively warm welcome y'all. i'll tell you, it's a change for the better already. like i said in the intro, many thousands of pictures to share. i'm a fairly frequent topic writer(i'm not a poet) i just go off on a tangent and do it. i was working on several projects for the other board but ....stuff happens. i'll be putting them up here if that's ok. at some point i'll see if i can get a few of those guys who aren't morons(so judgemental)to jump ship and come over here. peace and i'll talk at you all later.

[chuck34]

Welcome Penske.

As far as the Dallara ... One must keep in mind, no matter what you think of the car astetically, it was/is a proven race winner against real competition. It only became "spec" because it drove the competition out. In my book, that makes it beautiful.

[anthonyvop]

Welcome Penske.

As far as the Dallara ... One must keep in mind, no matter what you think of the car astetically, it was/is a proven race winner against real competition. It only became "spec" because it drove the competition out. In my book, that makes it beautiful.
It only beat the G-Force/Panoz. Actually the Panoz was better on the road course but how the series at the time was Oval Centric the teams opted for the Dallara.

[V12]

Welcome Penske.

As far as the Dallara ... One must keep in mind, no matter what you think of the car astetically, it was/is a proven race winner against real competition. It only became "spec" because it drove the competition out. In my book, that makes it beautiful.

This was pretty much what I was going to write word for word, oh well!

+1 :up:

Would still like to see the field opened to other competitors though to at least have the opportunity of going up against Dallara when the new formula (and I hope it's a new formula, not a "new car"), begins. Something which isn't permitted at the minute - IIRC you can't run a Panoz/G-Force now, even if you wanted to(!)

[chuck34]

It only beat the G-Force/Panoz. Actually the Panoz was better on the road course but how the series at the time was Oval Centric the teams opted for the Dallara.

So the Dallara was better suited to the tracks they ACTUALLY ran on. Are you saying that's some sort of bad thing? To me it just means Dallara looked at the tracks the league was running, and designed a car for that. The Panoz guys apparently designed a car for the tracks they wanted to run on? Smart engineers win every time.

[chuck34]

Would still like to see the field opened to other competitors though to at least have the opportunity of going up against Dallara when the new formula (and I hope it's a new formula, not a "new car"), begins. Something which isn't permitted at the minute - IIRC you can't run a Panoz/G-Force now, even if you wanted to(!)

BINGO! You get a cookie. :-)

[Jag_Warrior]

thanks for the massively warm welcome y'all. i'll tell you, it's a change for the better already. like i said in the intro, many thousands of pictures to share. i'm a fairly frequent topic writer(i'm not a poet) i just go off on a tangent and do it. i was working on several projects for the other board but ....stuff happens. i'll be putting them up here if that's ok. at some point i'll see if i can get a few of those guys who aren't morons(so judgemental)to jump ship and come over here. peace and i'll talk at you all later.

I don't go there very much anymore, but yeah, some of the guys who post there would be great to have here. There's one or two (OK, maybe ten) who are completely out to lunch. But their stay here would be short anyway. My main problem with Speed is that p!ss poor design of a board. It's horrible. Something a kid would come up with in his first year of computer science or something. And I've got my virus protection set pretty high. If I just think about going to the Speed site, my V/P starts warming up to catch all of the potential cookie threats. On really bad days, it locks my browser up. Screw that.

Say, what kinda pictures you got? I like pictures. Show me some pictures. Color pictures and shiney things make me happy.

[anthonyvop]

So the Dallara was better suited to the tracks they ACTUALLY ran on. Are you saying that's some sort of bad thing? To me it just means Dallara looked at the tracks the league was running, and designed a car for that. The Panoz guys apparently designed a car for the tracks they wanted to run on? Smart engineers win every time.
Very true but it still doesn't change the fact that the Dallara is a pig on the road courses and still butt ugly.

[Jag_Warrior]

Welcome Penske.

As far as the Dallara ... One must keep in mind, no matter what you think of the car astetically, it was/is a proven race winner against real competition. It only became "spec" because it drove the competition out. In my book, that makes it beautiful.

Compared to say, the current BMW F1 car, the Dallara IRL car isn't as ugly to the eye. But just like if Rosie O'Donnell found a cure for the common cold and saved a baby from drowning, she'd still never be beautiful.

Yeah, I know, "function over form", "form follows function" and all that. But they spend money on graphics and paint for a reason too. Otherwise they'd just hand scribble the signage on the cars - as long as you could read them, it'd be good enough.

That mofo is fugly. Always has been, always will be. But there is hope for the future.

[chuck34]

Very true but it still doesn't change the fact that the Dallara is a pig on the road courses and still butt ugly.

It may be a pig on the road courses. But it doesn't have any competition. Like how we've come full circle now. :-)

To you it's butt ugly. To me it's a beautiful piece of engineering. Granted, it's a bit long in the tooth now. But it served it's purpose quite well in it's day.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... or beer holder ... whatever the case may be. :-)

[chuck34]

Compared to say, the current BMW F1 car, the Dallara IRL car isn't as ugly to the eye. But just like if Rosie O'Donnell found a cure for the common cold and saved a baby from drowning, she'd still never be beautiful.

Yeah, I know, "function over form", "form follows function" and all that. But they spend money on graphics and paint for a reason too. Otherwise they'd just hand scribble the signage on the cars - as long as you could read them, it'd be good enough.

That mofo is fugly. Always has been, always will be. But there is hope for the future.

Well you like things to look "right" to you, and that's fine. I like forms that follow their function.

We're holding different beers I guess.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well you like things to look "right" to you, and that's fine. I like forms that follow their function.

We're holding different beers I guess.

OK, agreed. And even with that, I don't think a "pretty" car would turn the series around. Just like I don't think a faster car would turn the series around. The car ain't the problem - as CCWS found out.

[PA Rick]

OK, agreed. And even with that, I don't think a "pretty" car would turn the series around. Just like I don't think a faster car would turn the series around. The car ain't the problem - as CCWS found out.

Maybe a car with a good sound system?
Why does the beauty of a car even arise? Speed and handling are beauty. Just paint it shiney. Or flat black, if it makes it go faster.
And above all, make it faster and safer.

[Jag_Warrior]

Maybe a car with a good sound system?
Why does the beauty of a car even arise? Speed and handling are beauty. Just paint it shiney. Or flat black, if it makes it go faster.
And above all, make it faster and safer.

Hmm, because we're visual animals? I dunno. I don't think the looks of the car is a major contributor to watching or not watching, but, depending on the person, it might add to or detract from the viewing experience. Again, they could just hand scribble the letters and numbers on the car too and spray it with some K-mart discount paint. Why do Ferrari and McLaren spend the money that they do to study and match their paint colors, so that they show up a certain way on television? Again, I dunno. But they both seem to know the sponsorship game better than anyone and everyone in the IRL. As far as what's ugly vs. what's pretty, obviously that is very subjective.

But then, why does it need to be faster, if it's a spec car run throughout the field anyway? The car that comes in 1st is going to win whether the average speed of the field is 190 or 210, right? How is the spec car being faster going to make it a better race? What fans seem to take notice of is if the 1st place car wins by 25 seconds or .025 seconds. Sort of like what the car looks like, to be honest, I don't think most fans care so much about outright contests of speed, as much as they hope to see close racing action. Which one makes the highlights on ESPN, etc.?

[NickFalzone]

I saw this quote on another site about the breakdown of tv audiences for sports:

"The so-called casual fans actually make up the most important group for every American sport; without them, no league or sport can really succeed. Why? Because there are a lot of them. These folks are the people who drive the ratings during the World Series. They turn the NBA from a little-watched TV sport into a big deal come the playoffs in June. And they make the Super Bowl the most-watched one-day sporting event in the world."

The look of the cars is important to the casual fan. So is the quality of the racing at the one event they watch each year, the 500. If the cars look like crap (and all the same), and the 500 is just a bunch of spec cars running around spread out, what's the interest for the casual fan? What did Indy racing 15 years ago have that it doesn't have now? That IMO is the first step towards reclaiming the casual fan. The 500 ratings going down each year is the biggest sign of a sport that is not appealing to the casual fans, and is paying for it bigtime right now.

[PA Rick]

Which one makes the highlights on ESPN, etc.?

The one Danica was driving to 11th?

[Chamoo]

Welcome to the forums Penske15. Nice to see some new blood. Hope you enjoy yourself.

[Jag_Warrior]

The one Danica was driving to 11th?

*rimshot* :D

We might have to take this show on the road next season.

[garyshell]

*rimshot* :D

We might have to take this show on the road next season.

Enjoy the brisket, we'll be here all week.

Gary

[penske15]

I don't go there very much anymore, but yeah, some of the guys who post there would be great to have here. There's one or two (OK, maybe ten) who are completely out to lunch. But their stay here would be short anyway. My main problem with Speed is that p!ss poor design of a board. It's horrible. Something a kid would come up with in his first year of computer science or something. And I've got my virus protection set pretty high. If I just think about going to the Speed site, my V/P starts warming up to catch all of the potential cookie threats. On really bad days, it locks my browser up. Screw that.

Say, what kinda pictures you got? I like pictures. Show me some pictures. Color pictures and shiney things make me happy.

god, i got a ton of stuff. digitally speaking of course. :) pick a subject, i'll see what i got.

[penske15]

Welcome to the forums Penske15. Nice to see some new blood. Hope you enjoy yourself.
so far, it's very nice. i don't expect it always will be, but hey!! thanks for the nice welcome.