Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

[tec4]

Michael's action against Hill and Villenenuve were a direct threat to the life of himself, Hill, and Villeneuve WHILE PiquetJr threatened his life and the paint on the wall -- assuming no other after-crash incident in each case, yet PiquetJr is banned for life according to Brundle, Lauda, Gracia.

I see how "fixing" reminds people of American sports like Boxing but sportsmedia's broadcasting that suggests the end of Renault team competition, with no connection beyond the three directly involved is silly except that it puts money in the pockets of FIA, when there was no Ferrari team connection to Michael.

Sportmedia have the choice to broadcast or NOT, broadcast latest "Britney photo"/London Sun junk mail from Brundle etc. or broadcast more about latest F1 Technology. What is the purpose of stating the obvious effect on the three directly involved, except for publicity value to Brundle's contract.

What is otherwise the best F1 season of all time, for more than Ferrari and McLaren, will be remembered for extremist Brundlisms about fixing in previous F1 season, while there were no extreme broadcasts about Michael's direct threat to life of competitors.

AGAIN, why is the punishment due to loss of life severity of the PiquetJr different from the Schumacher case? because one was pre-arranged by more than one criminal?

[BDunnell]

I really am struggling to understand what point you are making.

[ClarkFan]

If it were anyone except the Piquets or David Richards I would be ready to tar and feather Flav and Symonds. But somehow I have a hard time supporting broken valor among thieves!!

You are missing the possibilities for a mass tar and feathering, sort of like the gallows the judge used in "Hand 'Em High."

ClarkFan

[tec4]

Final Answer: That PiquetJR told "anyone" is deserving of an award for the ...est, except maybe that PiquetSenior would ask if his action would affect rookie Renault driver Piquet, as personal revenge? at least Michael wanted to be champion that bad but PiquetSenior?..............and now out of the mud and back to FormulaONE......

[ShiftingGears]

Yep great piece of hypocrisy from the Spanish guy:



I wonder if Senor Gracia has aired the same feeling about Fernando Alonso and Pedro de la Rosa being given immunity in Spygate 2 years ago. I somehow doubt it that he was calling for Alonso and PDLR's heads back then, which makes him an effin' hypocrite who better kept quiet now.

Yes, hypocrite is the first word that comes to mind.

[DexDexter]

Mi
What is otherwise the best F1 season of all time, for more than Ferrari and McLaren, will be remembered for extremist Brundlisms about fixing in previous F1 season, while there were no extreme broadcasts about Michael's direct threat to life of competitors.



Offtopic but best season of all time? Is this your first year of F1? Remember 2007, 2008? The first part of this year was terribly boring.

[ioan]

Offtopic but best season of all time? Is this your first year of F1? R

Looks like that to me. ;)

[Somebody]

Saw this in the paper today, and thought maybe it could enlighten those who said everyone should have left it under the carpet...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports-news/latest-formula-one-scandal-exposes-the-sport-s-recklessness-1.920911

[airshifter]

For one Brundle was very critical of Schumacher during his career to the point MS would not give an interview to ITV for a few years. There is no doubt MS cheated, but this whole Renault thing is a very different form. Yes you can argue that MS effectively tried/did fix a race with his actions, but they were his actions alone and not with the help of the team as such. This was premeditated and planned which to me makes this more of a scandal. I don't buy into the danger to human live BS, but this is how the case is being approached and what they need to make the conviction stick so, so be it.



The point you make above in my opinion makes it two completely different situations. MS alone was responsible for his actions, and I seriously doubt it was planned well before the fact.

Renault ochestrated a false result, pressuring a driver into doing something he should have had the backbone to say no to regardless.

Even murder has different consequences for acts that are premeditated.

[Valve Bounce]

Saw this in the paper today, and thought maybe it could enlighten those who said everyone should have left it under the carpet...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports-news/latest-formula-one-scandal-exposes-the-sport-s-recklessness-1.920911

This bugger obviously scanned through this thread and then decided to write an enlightened article for his boss, hoping to get a raise off the brilliant observations and telling deductions from the experts who gave their opinions in this thread. :rolleyes:

[Big Ben]

Yep great piece of hypocrisy from the Spanish guy:



I wonder if Senor Gracia has aired the same feeling about Fernando Alonso and Pedro de la Rosa being given immunity in Spygate 2 years ago. I somehow doubt it that he was calling for Alonso and PDLR's heads back then, which makes him an effin' hypocrite who better kept quiet now.

So maybe you could explain why should Jr. be given immunity?


Comparing FA and PDLR's involvement in the spygate with this is also hipocrisy since both of them were indirectly involved.

As for the race fixing theory... Austria 2002 was a much clearer and worse case of race fixing... this one was dirty tatics since it didn't guaranteed the result... it payed off but in the end it could have finished in so many other ways.

[Big Ben]

Saw this in the paper today, and thought maybe it could enlighten those who said everyone should have left it under the carpet...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports-news/latest-formula-one-scandal-exposes-the-sport-s-recklessness-1.920911

I don't think it should be kept under the carpet but I don't understand what was the point of the entire article. I think the author is pretty confuse himself.

[ioan]

So maybe you could explain why should Jr. be given immunity?

It's quite obvious. It's for the same reason Alonso and PDLR were given immunity in Spygate, to spill the beans.



Comparing FA and PDLR's involvement in the spygate with this is also hipocrisy since both of them were indirectly involved.

Indirectly?
They were using data they knew very well that is obtained illegally from a competitor team.
I could also say that Piquet didn't mastermind the plan at Renault either, he was just indirectly involved by Flav and Pat.


As for the race fixing theory... Austria 2002 was a much clearer and worse case of race fixing... this one was dirty tatics since it didn't guaranteed the result... it payed off but in the end it could have finished in so many other ways.

What happened in Austria is called team orders. No other drivers than the two Ferrari drivers were concerned or influenced in any way.

The differences are there to be seen for everyone, it just takes a bit of common sense and a lil' bit of will and you can see them too.

[ioan]

I think you've mis-read what I have said in my post. I made the point that Schumachers moves were made by him and not enforced by the team. I also stated that the difference with that and the Renault situation, was that Renault's were premeditated and pre-planned whereas Schumachers were not... I think you have just repeated my point... :)

Yep, and ill all those differences you pointed out yourself you still say it's the same thing. :\

Sometimes I find it difficult to follow your reasoning. ;)

[ioan]

So do you think Schumachers moves were premeditated then :confused:

Not all.
I'm saying that even though you point out that the MS case isn't premeditated you still put the two cases in the same category. I just don't understand why you do so.

[CNR]

how much of this is misinformation

Renault may dodge ban because of links to rivals
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/article-23746590-details/Renault+may+dodge+ban+because+of+links+to+rivals/article.do


Renault are unlikely to be thrown out of the world championship altogether, in part due to the interest the French manufacturer has in other teams, supplying engines to Red Bull (http://www.motorsportforums.com/standard-home/related-1383-articles-reviews/Red+Bull+GmbH/related.do) and Toro Rosso.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Saw this in the paper today, and thought maybe it could enlighten those who said everyone should have left it under the carpet...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports-news/latest-formula-one-scandal-exposes-the-sport-s-recklessness-1.920911

I don't need to be enlightened by some sports journo with little grasp of the complexities of the sport.

He seems to have mixed-up messrs Irvine and Jordan to boot.

[ArrowsFA1]

The hearing into charges that Renault conspired to fix last year's Singapore Grand Prix has finished in Paris at the headquarters of governing body the FIA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8266090.stm

[Big Ben]

It's quite obvious. It's for the same reason Alonso and PDLR were given immunity in Spygate, to spill the beans.

wrong. in this case the beans were spilled before. the subject spilled them only because he could no longer benefit...




Indirectly?
They were using data they knew very well that is obtained illegally from a competitor team.
I could also say that Piquet didn't mastermind the plan at Renault either, he was just indirectly involved by Flav and Pat.

wrong again. they didn't steal the data from Ferrari, they didn't receive the data from Stepney... I'm pretty sure they didn't ask for it either. Their involvement was the consequence of the actions of others.




What happened in Austria is called team orders. No other drivers than the two Ferrari drivers were concerned or influenced in any way.

The differences are there to be seen for everyone, it just takes a bit of common sense and a lil' bit of will and you can see them too.

The fact that it is called team orders doesn't mean they didn't fix the race. The quickest driver didn't win the race because he was forced to let another one win it.

[SGWilko]

wrong. in this case the beans were spilled before. the subject spilled them only because he could no longer benefit...




wrong again. they didn't steal the data from Ferrari, they didn't receive the data from Stepney... I'm pretty sure they didn't ask for it either. Their involvement was the consequence of the actions of others.




The fact that it is called team orders doesn't mean they didn't fix the race. The quickest driver didn't win the race because he was forced to let another one win it.

Had you placed a bet on Rubens to win, and he did not because he was not allowed to, allayed to the pathetic behaviour on the podium by the 'star' driver, I think you can see that fixing of the race is a very appropriate phrase.