Who should Renault be courting? [Archive]

keysersoze

28th August 2009, 19:40

Well, the Alonso-to-Ferrari rumors are gaining strength, and even though Renault have struggled this year they are doubtless considered a coveted seat. With so many drivers on the market, who should they be going after? I'm assuming Grosjean is a lock for one seat.

Kubica: the strongest rumor, but has looked pretty vincible for most of this year

Heidfeld: can probably be had for fairly cheap as far as veteran drivers go, and is a solid racer.

Kimi: if he leaves Ferrari, of course, but Williams may be the better option . . . . assuming they could afford him

Trulli: his stock is falling and he probably has no chance, but he's as quick as he's ever been IMO.

Rosberg: if he decides not to play 2nd fiddle to Lewis . . . still, I think he'd rather stay at Williams than go here

Fisi: third time? not likely

Glock: probably needs to shop himself in case the team decides they can't afford it. 'Yoter rates him above Trulli, it seems.

Kova: proved marginally quicker than Fisi, and I think the team liked him once he got his act together.

jens

28th August 2009, 21:02

Kubica seems highly likely. If his move to Renault for some reason doesn't materialize, then Kovalainen could have a good chance of going back there. Don't see Rosberg in Renault, it's either McLaren or Williams.

Briatore seems to 'dislike' experienced drivers, so alas no chance for Heidfeld/Trulli/etc. :\ Arguably in 2006 Flavio said something like that about M.Schumacher->Renault rumours: "It's like if I would go dating with a 90-year-old." :D

Sonic

28th August 2009, 21:54

Kubica is a shoe in at Renault IMO. He is very much like Alonso in several ways; he is driven, a bit cocky and very demanding of his team. Perhaps he could pull the team around him in the same way as MS or Fred and we could have the third coming of the Flav team.

CNR

28th August 2009, 23:45

Adrian Sutil (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/818.html) or of the Toro Rosso drivers

Jaime Alguersuari (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/847.html) or Sebastien Buemi (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/842.html)

‎Aug 26, 2009‎
Loeb, who is reportedly also in talks with Toro Rosso about making an appearance at the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, told France's L'Equipe newspaper

William Hunt

29th August 2009, 00:19

[quote="keysersoze"]

Glock: probably needs to shop himself in case the team decides they can't afford it. 'Yoter rates him above Trulli, it seems./UOTE]

Toyota doesn't rate Glock above Trulli.
The fact that they are planning to extend Glock's contract and probably won't extend Trulli's contract is purely financial.
Toyota's 2010 budget hasn't been approved yet in Japan and if it does get approved than it would be a significant smaller budget.
Trulli is on a much higher salary as Glock, he would be axed because of budget cutting. This has nothing to do with Trulli's ability which Toyota regards highly.

Saint Devote

29th August 2009, 04:00

I agree that Kubica makes the most sense - and then Hulkenberg if Grosjean is no better than Piquet and he is not in a Williams seat in 2010.

Saint Devote

29th August 2009, 04:02

jens

29th August 2009, 09:56

Toyota doesn't rate Glock above Trulli.
The fact that they are planning to extend Glock's contract and probably won't extend Trulli's contract is purely financial.
Toyota's 2010 budget hasn't been approved yet in Japan and if it does get approved than it would be a significant smaller budget.
Trulli is on a much higher salary as Glock, he would be axed because of budget cutting. This has nothing to do with Trulli's ability which Toyota regards highly.

Trulli has said that money is not an issue for him not to continue in the team. Toyota hasn't taken up the option in Glock's contract either yet. They simply can't guarantee any salary to anyone yet, a bit of a ridiculous situation to all parties, but what can one do.

Maybe if Toyota's budget is seriously cut, they need a paydriver like a real underfunded team. :p :

jens

29th August 2009, 10:01

toyota - what can one say...

They have never been the best at decisions in f1. And to continue not to have a lead driver - if the team is around in 2010 - will only add to their 10 years of NOTHING!!!

Nah, Toyota's line-up is as good as Brawn's. If Jarno & Timo were in those Brawns this year, they would be easily fighting for the championship. ;)

emporer_k

29th August 2009, 11:28

I'd be going after Kubica. Also if Grosjean's performances are satisfactiry between now and the seasons end he'd get a seat too.

ioan

29th August 2009, 14:01

WOOW!

Force India Pole Position!

christophulus

29th August 2009, 15:32

Kubica seems the logical choice, solid but not too expensive. Grosjean has been lined up for a while so as long as he strings together a few finishes he'll be there next year too. If Piquet got a second season under Briatore (well, one and a half), I'd be shocked if Grosjean doesn't get the same chance.

ioan

29th August 2009, 15:36

Right now they should try to sign Kimi, Kubica is a primadonna like Alonso was, only slower.

CaptainRaiden

29th August 2009, 16:06

After Kimi's performances this year, the several podiums etc in a pretty much mediocre car, IMO Ferrari would be stupid to get rid of him next year. Before Massa's unfortunate accident, he pretty much had the upperhand in qualifying, and probably would be equal or ahead in points, if not for the two DNFs.

I would be almost ridiculous to get rid of a proven racewinner and a champion, but if Ferrari still want Alonso and his 6 tenths badly, then I guess Kimi would have the choice to go to Renault or even go back to Mclaren and replace Kova.

ioan

29th August 2009, 16:38

After Kimi's performances this year, the several podiums etc in a pretty much mediocre car, IMO Ferrari would be stupid to get rid of him next year. Before Massa's unfortunate accident, he pretty much had the upperhand in qualifying, and probably would be equal or ahead in points, if not for the two DNFs.

Before Felipe's accident he had 22 points to Kimi's 10. Don't know where do you think that Kimi lost 12 points because of 2 DNF's.

CaptainRaiden

29th August 2009, 20:01

Before Felipe's accident he had 22 points to Kimi's 10. Don't know where do you think that Kimi lost 12 points because of 2 DNF's.

Hence the use of the word "probably", ioan. ;) I didn't remember or didn't care to lookup the stats. But well, at least in qualifying I guess Kimi was a bit better than Felipe this year? All I'm saying is that his 2009 is way better than his 2008.

Plus, he also has been a victim of dumb strategies and decisions by Ferrari. Sending him out on wet tyres on a bone dry track in Malaysia for one springs to mind. So, I guess you can count three DNFs, one because the Ferrari strategists decided to have a brain fart.

For sure, Ferrari can acknowledge the fact that he is the only other champion for them in the last decade other than Schumacher. Motivation can go up and down, but the skill is still there.

ioan

29th August 2009, 20:06

All I'm saying is that his 2009 is way better than his 2008.

Doesn't look like that to me, honestly.

CaptainRaiden

29th August 2009, 20:15

Doesn't look like that to me, honestly.

And why?

ioan

29th August 2009, 20:22

And why?

Take a look to the results.After more than half the season he had less than 50% of the points his team mate had.

He was doing better than that last season.

CaptainRaiden

29th August 2009, 20:34

Take a look to the results.After more than half the season he had less than 50% of the points his team mate had.

He was doing better than that last season.

Like I already said, he was a victim of bad strategy and some bonehead moves made by Ferrari, and also some unlucky circumstances in some races. But then he also shone with podiums in Monaco, Hungary and Valencia.

Now, we can't really judge his performance against Massa, and also can't compare his points to last season, since the F2008 was eons better than this year's supermarket trolly, but if he drove this hard last year, he would have gotten some more points. What I'm saying is that he's showing more aggression this year.

The Kimi of last year or two years ago won't fight for podium places or points, since he was only interested in winning, as he said once. He is showing more eagerness to perform now, which in a faster car would have translated into victories IMHO.

ClarkFan

29th August 2009, 21:34

This has nothing to do with Trulli's ability which Toyota regards highly.
That helps explain why the team has struggled so much. No judge of talent.

Flavio binned Trulli at Renault for falling asleep in races. He has never lost that trait.

As for Renault, they should really be pitching Rosberg with the "Do you really want to be #2?" argument if they are serious. That will require a commitment to producing a better car than they have in 2008 or this year, or 2nd at McLaren would look better than 1st at Renault.

ClarkFan

BDunnell

29th August 2009, 21:38

Take a look to the results.After more than half the season he had less than 50% of the points his team mate had.

He was doing better than that last season.

You can't base everything on points.

ioan

29th August 2009, 21:41

You can't base everything on points.

That what counts in the end.
I know other go for qualifying results and even fastest laps, but really points are all that matters at the end of the day (and season). Drivers aren't paid for fastest laps or other artistic impressions they are paid to score as many points as possible for their teams in order to achieve a better placement in the final standings.

I know it isn't very romantic, but life has always been harsh since humans discovered how to count.

jens

30th August 2009, 00:06

Flavio binned Trulli at Renault for falling asleep in races. He has never lost that trait.

Trulli was sacked from Renault, because JT didn't want to keep Flavio as his manager beyond 2004. Everything else was just a smokescreen to "justify" the sacking decision. And before you point out Magny-Cours 2004, I have to tell you that nobody would sack a driver just for one mistake or otherwise we wouldn't have any drivers on the grid at all.

ClarkFan

30th August 2009, 00:34

Trulli was sacked from Renault, because JT didn't want to keep Flavio as his manager beyond 2004. Everything else was just a smokescreen to "justify" the sacking decision. And before you point out Magny-Cours 2004, I have to tell you that nobody would sack a driver just for one mistake or otherwise we wouldn't have any drivers on the grid at all.
If that race was a one-off, you would be correct. But it really has been a career pattern that has continued at Toyota. Trulli can be very fast for a few laps. But in a race he appears to lose focus and speed, holding up cars he out-qualified and/or falling back through the field. Flavio is a self-serving shyster, but it sure looks like he had Trulli's number.

ClarkFan

jens

30th August 2009, 09:02

If that race was a one-off, you would be correct. But it really has been a career pattern that has continued at Toyota. Trulli can be very fast for a few laps. But in a race he appears to lose focus and speed, holding up cars he out-qualified and/or falling back through the field. Flavio is a self-serving shyster, but it sure looks like he had Trulli's number.

Your theory doesn't hold water, since Trulli was having the best season of his career. And whispers suggested already before Magny-Cours'04 that Trulli is out of the team. Fisichella was underperforming more significantly, yet was kept for 3 full seasons at Renault and wasn't sacked after Suzuka'05. ;)

CaptainRaiden

30th August 2009, 10:31

That what counts in the end.
I know other go for qualifying results and even fastest laps, but really points are all that matters at the end of the day (and season). Drivers aren't paid for fastest laps or other artistic impressions they are paid to score as many points as possible for their teams in order to achieve a better placement in the final standings.

I know it isn't very romantic, but life has always been harsh since humans discovered how to count.

Well, then going by your theory, Hamilton had more points than Massa for the last two years, right? It doesn't matter how many, but he was ahead, so this would mean that Hamilton is a better driver than Massa. Wouldn't you agree?

ioan

30th August 2009, 10:47

Well, then going by your theory, Hamilton had more points than Massa for the last two years, right?

And?! What has this to do with the subject at hand? Knee jerk reaction anyone?! :rolleyes:

CaptainRaiden

30th August 2009, 11:25

And?! What has this to do with the subject at hand? Knee jerk reaction anyone?! :rolleyes:

Probably you're having trouble understanding, but weren't you the one who said points are what counts at the end of the day, and they are the most important thing, blah, blah?

Now, going by your own theory, even though they are in different teams, Hamilton has had more points than Massa in the last two years. So, that automatically makes him a better driver, right? I'm not making this up, and it IS to do with the subject at hand. YOU said:

That what counts in the end.
I know other go for qualifying results and even fastest laps, but really points are all that matters at the end of the day (and season). Drivers aren't paid for fastest laps or other artistic impressions they are paid to score as many points as possible for their teams in order to achieve a better placement in the final standings.

So, well, doesn't matter if Massa was inadequate or had DNFs or whatever that made him lose at the end. Bottom line is, that Lewis Hamilton had more points than Massa, and THAT is what counts at the end of the day, right? So, then Hamilton is a better driver than Massa. Case closed.

I know it isn't very romantic, but life has always been harsh since humans discovered how to count.

Oh, how true. :rolleyes: And let's not continue this discussion if you're gonna throw your toys out of the pram every time you are proven wrong, and then you try to "back up" your opinions, while in complete denial, for the next 100 pages. Jeez.

ioan

30th August 2009, 11:34

Probably you're having trouble understanding, but weren't you the one who said points are what counts at the end of the day, and they are the most important thing, blah, blah?

Now, going by your own theory, even though they are in different teams, Hamilton has had more points than Massa in the last two years. So, that automatically makes him a better driver, right? I'm not making this up, and it IS to do with the subject at hand. YOU said:

As you say they are in different teams and cars, so your comparison and your knee jerk reaction are useless. :wave:

ShiftingGears

30th August 2009, 12:44

That what counts in the end.
I know it isn't very romantic, but life has always been harsh since humans discovered how to count.

Well in that case, Kimi has done a better job than Massa this season.

ioan

30th August 2009, 12:59

Well in that case, Kimi has done a better job than Massa this season.

:rotflmao:

Don't know where you found that given that Massa had twice the points of Kimi before he was taken out by Rubens' spring.

CaptainRaiden

30th August 2009, 13:13

:rotflmao:

Don't know where you found that given that Massa had twice the points of Kimi before he was taken out by Rubens' spring.

Put as many laughing smilies you want, spring or no spring, Kimi is ahead of Massa in points, and hence is a better driver, and like a great man once said, "That's what counts in the end." You can't invent this stuff. ;)

ioan

30th August 2009, 13:31

Put as many laughing smilies you want, spring or no spring, Kimi is ahead of Massa in points, and hence is a better driver, and like a great man once said, "That's what counts in the end." You can't invent this stuff. ;)

Honestly I'm not gonna lose time trying to argue your unintelligent posts. :wave: