IBJ tidbit on the versus/directTv deal

[SarahFan]

http://thescore.ibj.com/content/?p=1130

[Jag_Warrior]

So who do you think is going to cave in first?

[SarahFan]

So who do you think is going to cave in first?

versus

[Jag_Warrior]

Given DirecTV's response, I'd say you're right.

[NickFalzone]

It's nice to hear that everyone thinks one side or another will cave. I'm a little bit more cynical, particularly when I see stuff like this on the IndyCar website:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9919/picture2igm.jpg

[MDS]

I wonder though, if losing Direct TV would give the IRL an out to negotiate with a channel that actually has some credibility to it.

[SarahFan]

I wonder though, if losing Direct TV would give the IRL an out to negotiate with a channel that actually has some credibility to it.


Hater

;)

[garyshell]

I wonder though, if losing Direct TV would give the IRL an out to negotiate with a channel that actually has some credibility to it.


Oh you mean like one that would give the series the cold shoulder and cut the race off the moment the checker fell, of god forbid never run a pre-race show that some of us WANT to watch? Yep what a stupendous idea!

Gary

[MDS]

I'm all for a prerace show, but does it have to be an hour and ten minutes long? They had time enough to do five minute sitdowns with almost the whole field. Twenty minutes, yeah, that's justifiable, but they don't have enough to talk about for an hour, that was pretty clear in the first 5 minutes.

[indycool]

I think we'll see more of this as time goes on, i.e., this channel and that distributor negotiating hard for the bucks. And Comcast basic has Versus but AT&T Uverse basic does not. So it goes....

[SarahFan]

question for the class....

is there potential this spills over and effects other IRl sponsor contracts..

for example (just example).... if the IRL knew during contract negotiations with versus and at the time of signing the deal that the potential to be dropped by direct TV was in play (surely they did, i have been reminded all season these folks did thier homework) but didn't disclose the possibility when negotiating with say Izod or Apexbrasil that those companies could come back and say the IRL misrepresented the new VS tv deal

?

[Jag_Warrior]

Hard to say, Ken. It seems the responsibility would have been on Versus to make that possibility known to the IRL. I'm not sure that a sponsor would see that as something the IRL would/should have known about. I dunno.

But I will say one thing, that Battle of the Scrolls was hella annoying. I watched the Tivo of the race and that was about the most childish thing I've ever seen. Not that I have any corporate love for Versus or DirecTV, but that "he said/she said" foolishness really took away from what was a pretty good race.

[indycool]

Ken, I doubt that any of those negotiations are conducted in bad faith, with promoters or TV guys or sponsors. I would think that all would realize that anything can happen. If a team sells a sponsor, "If you give me $7 million, we'll win all the races," that'd be wrong and I sincerely doubt it's done. I get multipage, full-color magazines about every three weeks from AT&T about paying the extra $5 a month to get Versus. You look at the number of channels and number of distributors and there's bound to be hiccups along the way. I'm surprised there's not more of 'em...but maybe I don't get Oprah's Oxygen thing, don't even know it, and the lady next door is all pissed off that she doesn't.

[garyshell]

I'm all for a prerace show, but does it have to be an hour and ten minutes long? They had time enough to do five minute sitdowns with almost the whole field. Twenty minutes, yeah, that's justifiable, but they don't have enough to talk about for an hour, that was pretty clear in the first 5 minutes.


Then don't tun in until its time for the race. This reminds me of folks who called used to call in to a public access radio station I helped get on the air. Some would complain about this program or that program. When I worked the phones I would promptly remind folks that there were two knobs on their radio that would help them with their problem. One would let them tune to a station more to their liking. The other would let them turn it off completely.

Look, for a long time many of us (and I'd be willing to bet YOU were among that collective us) bemoaned the lack of coverage the series was getting. No pre-race show at all, and a cutaway the moment the checkers dropped. So now we have a KNOWN hour before and coverage after and you are COMPLAINING? MDS, there are two dials (or buttons) on your set that will help you with this problem...

Gary

[chuck34]

Then don't tun in until its time for the race. This reminds me of folks who called used to call in to a public access radio station I helped get on the air. Some would complain about this program or that program. When I worked the phones I would promptly remind folks that there were two knobs on their radio that would help them with their problem. One would let them tune to a station more to their liking. The other would let them turn it off completely.

Look, for a long time many of us (and I'd be willing to bet YOU were among that collective us) bemoaned the lack of coverage the series was getting. No pre-race show at all, and a cutaway the moment the checkers dropped. So now we have a KNOWN hour before and coverage after and you are COMPLAINING? MDS, there are two dials (or buttons) on your set that will help you with this problem...

Gary


Did we really KNOW it was going to be an hour of pre-race coverage? I don't remember it being that long on other races (except Indy). I'm all for a pre-race show. But I must say I think we've gone from one extreem to another. Half hour pre race, half hour post race would be great. I DVRed the race Sat night. And thank God there weren't any more cautions because we didn't get much post race this time. If I would have taped a 3 hour show and not been able to see the entire race because of an hour ten pre-race show, I would not have been happy.

Yes I am one of those guys that WANTED the pre race stuff. I also WANTED the post race stuff. (I'm a bit mad because my DVR cut off right as TK started to yell at Mikey. Anyone know what happened there?). But there has to be a better balance. Like I said half hour pre race, half hour post race sounds about right to me.

It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, a balance can be found.

[SarahFan]

Gary....

Besides extended coverage... What IYO is better about VS coverage?

[garyshell]

Did we really KNOW it was going to be an hour of pre-race coverage? I don't remember it being that long on other races (except Indy).

Then you haven't been paying attention. The race start was clearly posted as being at 9:00 CDT/10:00 EDT and the TV coverage was clearly stated as starting at 8:00 CDT/9:00 EDT. So do the math, that gives us an hour of coverage, right?

Just because YOU don't want an hour of coverage, what makes you think the rest of us don't? I do, and would venture to guess lots of other folks here do as well. As I said in my previous post, you have complete control on how long the pre-race coverage is all you need to do is exercise that control. Pretty simple actually.

Gary

[garyshell]

Besides extended coverage... What IYO is better about VS coverage?


Answered in the other thread where you asked the EXACT same question. Do we REALLY need two threads for that discussion?

Gary

[bblocker68]

Thanks Comcast!

[SarahFan]

Answered in the other thread where you asked the EXACT same question. Do we REALLY need two threads for that discussion?

Gary


why do always get so upset gary.......

[garyshell]

why do always get so upset gary.......


Why do you think you can read my emotions? How is it you seem to think you can discern the difference between bemused, annoyed and upset soley through the typed word? You may THINK you can, but trust me, you can't.

Gary

[SarahFan]

I guess it's all CAPITAL letters

you just always come across as WORKED UP

its a dozen a fans talkin racin and stuff isnt it

[garyshell]

I guess it's all CAPITAL letters

you just always come across as WORKED UP

its a dozen a fans talkin racin and stuff isnt it


Totally YOUR interpretation. When we speak, we can use intonation to indicate emphasis on a particular word in a sentence. That emphasis, adds nuance and meaning to the spoken word. That is sorely missing in the written word. I use the capitalization device to denote that same sort of emphasis on a single word, to add that same sort of nuance and meaning to a sentence. If I were upset, I'D CAPITALIZE THE WHOLE DAMN SENTENCE AND CLEARLY INDICATE I WAS UPSET! Trust me, you will KNOW when I am "worked up".

Gary

[chuck34]

Then you haven't been paying attention. The race start was clearly posted as being at 9:00 CDT/10:00 EDT and the TV coverage was clearly stated as starting at 8:00 CDT/9:00 EDT. So do the math, that gives us an hour of coverage, right?

Just because YOU don't want an hour of coverage, what makes you think the rest of us don't? I do, and would venture to guess lots of other folks here do as well. As I said in my previous post, you have complete control on how long the pre-race coverage is all you need to do is exercise that control. Pretty simple actually.

Gary

Where was that posted? I never saw it. And as I said, I don't recall an hour of pre-race for any other race this year. Have I slept through the others?

I understand the part about I can control the TV. That's fine for the start. But when you're given a 3 hour time block on TV and push everything to the end. You get dangerously close to the end time. And then the people (like me) who DVR the race, you get close to missing it. And if there would have been probably 1 more caution in that race, I would have missed it. If you really want an hour long pre-race show, fine I don't really have a problem with that. Just make it a 3.5 hour time slot on TV so that we don't miss the end. Pretty simple actually.

[nigelred5]

Comcast goes through this with everyone, it's just unusual in this instance in that Comcast owns the channel in dispute and aren't on the carrier side in this instance. We've probably had those same scrolls 20 times in the past couple of years. Comcast goes through it all of the time. They went through it with the Time Warner channels and we actually lost all of the Viacom owner channels for several days. Comcast will cave simply because they can't grow the channel if no one has access to the channel. They know there are still a lot of people out there watching on satellite that have no access to Comcast's cable system or wouldn't connect even if they did. I tried satellite and just had too many problems with topography, trees and large structures near my house. I'm still with Comcast after 30+ years, but I will dump them in a heartbeat once another hard-line option (FIOS) is available, and They are informed of that EVERY time I call them because of a service problem.


Oh, and I HATE the whole "prime time" programming, no matter what the sport is, especially on the weekends. It screws the events up for everyone. MNF was great when they bumped start times up to 8:30 pm eastern. Starting a sporting event at 9:00 pm is rediculous no matter what day of the week it is. Starting a sporting event at 10:00 pm Eastern is insanity.

[SarahFan]

am I the only one who would prefer more post race than pre race coverage?

[Jag_Warrior]

(I'm a bit mad because my DVR cut off right as TK started to yell at Mikey. Anyone know what happened there?)

When Tony leaped across the wall and jumped in front of Michael? No, the camera cut away at the same time I guess your DVR cut off.

Surely by now someone has included that in a post race story. But I haven't had time to look for an explanation online. I wonder if Tony now regrets re-signing with AGR?

[indycool]

Can a mod merge these threads?

[Jag_Warrior]

am I the only one who would prefer more post race than pre race coverage?

No, you're not the only one. IMO, a good bit of the pre-race coverage was pure fluff. As has been said by others, Versus needs to strike a better balance.

Gary is correct, that one can always change the channel or not tune in. Of course, that's the problem that the IRL is trying (rather unsuccessfully) to avoid going forward.

[chuck34]

When Tony leaped across the wall and jumped in front of Michael? No, the camera cut away at the same time I guess your DVR cut off.

Surely by now someone has included that in a post race story. But I haven't had time to look for an explanation online. I wonder if Tony now regrets re-signing with AGR?

Haven't seen any explaination anywhere. But then again I haven't looked too hard.

[chuck34]

am I the only one who would prefer more post race than pre race coverage?

I'm with you Ken. Half an hour of pre-race is probably a good ballance. And at least that, maybe more post-race.

[indycool]

IMO, with the season going as it has, and the changes in organizational structure that AGR has made, a little yellin' and bitchin' would seem natural.

[Jag_Warrior]

We've probably had those same scrolls 20 times in the past couple of years.

Really?! That must suck! I remember the battles that ESPN2 and Speedvision had over Formula One years ago. But I'd never seen anything as goofy as this before.

P.S. I just flipped over to Versus and they're running the same sad, little commercial right now. Yeah, of course I'll switch to cable or another satellite service just to get one niche channel. Good luck with that, Versus. :D

[Jag_Warrior]

IMO, with the season going as it has, and the changes in organizational structure that AGR has made, a little yellin' and bitchin' would seem natural.

If it's true that he had a concrete deal with Ganassi, it just seems like he'd have to wonder where he'd be right now if he'd gone with that option, yeah?

[indycool]

Yeah, and I hear there are some personal issues, too.

[nigelred5]

am I the only one who would prefer more post race than pre race coverage?


No, not at all especially since any detailed post race discussion by the major medial outlets is nil and Indycar gets 1/10th of what Speed gives NASCAR.

I want to hear the reactions of hte drivers while they are still hot. I like the fresh in their mind reactions. I've complained about when Fox broadcasts the F1 races. Sometimes the best part of the F1 broadcasts on Speed are the post race. I hate when they show us a snippet of the podium, then a comment or two from the winner from the post race conference then cut. I was floored when they showed none of the post race comment when Kubica won his first race. They showed us more of the footage from his montreal crash than they did of an elated first time winner.

[nigelred5]

I wonder how much of Tony re-signing was because of the Green side of the equation and not the Andretti side?

[garyshell]

Where was that posted? I never saw it. And as I said, I don't recall an hour of pre-race for any other race this year. Have I slept through the others?

The Indycar.com track schedule showed a start time of 9:00 CDT for the race. As for the other races, I can't say how long the pre-race show was, but I can say that, again Indycar.com posted a schedule that gave the actual race start times.


I understand the part about I can control the TV. That's fine for the start. But when you're given a 3 hour time block on TV and push everything to the end. You get dangerously close to the end time. And then the people (like me) who DVR the race, you get close to missing it. And if there would have been probably 1 more caution in that race, I would have missed it. If you really want an hour long pre-race show, fine I don't really have a problem with that. Just make it a 3.5 hour time slot on TV so that we don't miss the end. Pretty simple actually.

I think part of the problem is we are still locked into the mindset that the show will end at the time posted on the TV schedule. Clearly with Versus, the IRL is being treated with a bit more respect than ESPN/ABC ever did. Instead of the IRL being the victim of the prior event going over the scheduled time, now Versus is allowing the IRL to go over its time slot. Bottom line is when you set up the dvr, allow for some extra time at the end because if the race goes long so will the Versus coverage.

Gary

[chuck34]

The Indycar.com track schedule showed a start time of 9:00 CDT for the race. As for the other races, I can't say how long the pre-race show was, but I can say that, again Indycar.com posted a schedule that gave the actual race start times.

Ok so how does the casual fan know that? Or even the more than casual fan who doesn't check the website (me)? A countdown clock in the corner would be nice.


I think part of the problem is we are still locked into the mindset that the show will end at the time posted on the TV schedule. Clearly with Versus, the IRL is being treated with a bit more respect than ESPN/ABC ever did. Instead of the IRL being the victim of the prior event going over the scheduled time, now Versus is allowing the IRL to go over its time slot. Bottom line is when you set up the dvr, allow for some extra time at the end because if the race goes long so will the Versus coverage.

Gary

I will do that from now on (assuming Direct/VS figure their stuff out). But again the more casual fan may not. And it's such an easy thing to correct and allow the casual fan to enjoy the entire race.

[nigelred5]

Really?! That must suck! I remember the battles that ESPN2 and Speedvision had over Formula One years ago. But I'd never seen anything as goofy as this before.

P.S. I just flipped over to Versus and they're running the same sad, little commercial right now. Yeah, of course I'll switch to cable or another satellite service just to get one niche channel. Good luck with that, Versus. :D

Like I said, it happens quite a lot with Comcast. They don't want to pay to re-broadcast channels, especially the free to air channels. I"ve been a customer for YEARS and this is nothing new. We just went through the same thing all summer with the NFL channel. I have no idea what happened and I don't really care because my teams games are never blacked out or not shown at home on broadcast TV. We actually had the choice of three stations to watch last weeks game because of the local rights to the pre season games are different than the reg season and NFL network deals. Eevn if it's an ESPN game, we get it on local broadcast.

[NickFalzone]

The only reason you don't like the pre-race coverage is because you spend hours a day on message boards/indycar websites keeping up on the latest news. The pre-race show is for those that do not do that, and for them the info there is new and perhaps interesting. As others have said, you can change the dial. NASCAR pre-race shows can go on for a couple hours, so this is hardly unique to racing. The only thing you have to stand on here is pre-races that lead to very late start times, I'm talking 10pm like on Saturday. That, I can agree with.

[NickFalzone]

Oh, and I HATE the whole "prime time" programming, no matter what the sport is, especially on the weekends. It screws the events up for everyone. MNF was great when they bumped start times up to 8:30 pm eastern. Starting a sporting event at 9:00 pm is rediculous no matter what day of the week it is. Starting a sporting event at 10:00 pm Eastern is insanity.

The reason it's called "prime time" programming from 8-11 pm is because that's when most people are watching tv, more than any other time of the day. I doubt very much that the tv execs are concerned about your particular viewing habits when their data shows most others watch tv at this time. I agree that 9 pm starts are annoying, but on the other hand it leaves open the rest of the daytime to not be sitting in front of the tube. If it's too late for me, I just tape it, no big deal.

[garyshell]

The only reason you don't like the pre-race coverage is because you spend hours a day on message boards/indycar websites keeping up on the latest news. The pre-race show is for those that do not do that, and for them the info there is new and perhaps interesting. As others have said, you can change the dial. NASCAR pre-race shows can go on for a couple hours, so this is hardly unique to racing. The only thing you have to stand on here is pre-races that lead to very late start times, I'm talking 10pm like on Saturday. That, I can agree with.

But I don't think he even has that to stand on. The pre-race coverage didn't dictate the 10PM start time. The track/IRL dictated that start time and then Versus worked one hour back from that to start the pre-race at 9:00.

Gary

[BobbyC]

The tracks set start times. One problem I've seen has been the Central Time Zone night races starting at 9 PM local (10 PM EDT). Going back to 8 PM local (9 PM ET) would be a good start. Of course the last three IRL races are all Saturday races.

DirecTV said that Versus ranks just 61st of 74 channels on their "basic" line, and they did not want to pay a higher per-subscriber fee. Versus has had to increase their fee because of their package -- the IRL, PBR, WEC, Le Tour, and the Mountain West Conference.

Versus College Football games such as Texas-Wyoming and Florida State-Brigham Young are there because the MWC team is the home team, and that means Versus has the rights. These games are national, compared to the ESPN regional games. They can get a higher per-subscriber rate as the VS games will be guaranteed that any fan with VS anywhere can watch it without PPV. With an ESPN game, most games (Big XII, et al) were put on PPV so that if you weren't in that conference's region, those games were on PPV. That assures Comcast can charge higher per-subscriber games to assure viewers that they have national, not regional, games.

What sickens me is DirecTV thinks MTV and its smut are better suited to be on television, but not Versus. Bob Jenkins, Alexander Ovechkin, and Troubador are more worthy to be on-air than Stefani Germanotta, Marshall Mathers, Brooke Bollea.

[ClarkFan]

I wonder though, if losing Direct TV would give the IRL an out to negotiate with a channel that actually has some credibility to it.
Credibility is optional. What the IRL needs is a network with viewers.

ClarkFan

[Jag_Warrior]

DirecTV said that Versus ranks just 61st of 74 channels on their "basic" line, and they did not want to pay a higher per-subscriber fee. Versus has had to increase their fee because of their package -- the IRL, PBR, WEC, Le Tour, and the Mountain West Conference.

What sickens me is DirecTV thinks MTV and its smut are better suited to be on television, but not Versus. Bob Jenkins, Alexander Ovechkin, and Troubador are more worthy to be on-air than Stefani Germanotta, Marshall Mathers, Brooke Bollea.

I'm not aware that DirecTV is making any moral judgments. According to what you just said, Versus ranks 61st out of 74 channels in the basic lineup. Where does MTV rank and how much are they charging? I'd say that answer would give a pretty clear indication of why Versus is where it is, as far as DirecTV is concerned. I think it has a lot more to do with dollars & cents objectives, rather than morality subjectives. If the channel was #10, I doubt we'd be hearing anything about this - the deal would have been signed already.

[Hoop-98]

I'm not aware that DirecTV is making any moral judgments. According to what you just said, Versus ranks 61st out of 74 channels in the basic lineup. Where does MTV rank and how much are they charging? I'd say that answer would give a pretty clear indication of why Versus is where it is, as far as DirecTV is concerned. I think it has a lot more to do with dollars & cents objectives, rather than morality subjectives. If the channel was #10, I doubt we'd be hearing anything about this - the deal would have been signed already.

Lol so if Billy Graham's show is number 1231, (showing my age), he can charge more than 'The Office"....


Dollars and Sense, you may be onto something says this dad of 1 5th grade teacher, and 0 couch dance entertainers....

Proud of my teacher girl though.

EDIT ( mmm actually, I think the Office may be more moral than BG, but then I am showing my agnostic side)

rh

[ClarkFan]

Gary....

Besides extended coverage... What IYO is better about VS coverage?
Exclusivity. When you are sitting among a crowd of the Great Unwashed and say, "I watch the IRL on TV," you know that no one else can say, "I do, too."

;)

ClarkFan

[Hoop-98]

Exclusivity. When you are sitting among a crowd of the Great Unwashed and say, "I watch the IRL on TV," you know that no one else can say, "I do, too."

;)

ClarkFan

Kinda like when the girl next to you reading "People" asks what "The Economist" is about. I said it is about the old rock movement, Maynard Keynes and the Earth Band!

rh

[Jag_Warrior]

Kinda like when the girl next to you reading "People" asks what "The Economist" is about. I said it is about the old rock movement, Maynard Keynes and the Earth Band!

rh

The Economist? Ah sure, dude. I've heard of that. It was in People Magazine too!

aiA3yoZTD2w&feature=related

[SarahFan]

Well it looks like I won't be watching the final 2 races

Bummer in the short term ..... Can't help but wonder if there is a silver lineing