Piquet Snr to buy BMW Sauber - Reports

[Giuseppe F1]

Wonder who they would get to drive? :)



Piquet Snr eyeing Sauber takeover - report
03/08/09 14:47
BMW's departure is an opportunity for others

Renault driver Nelson Piquet's famous father is a candidate to take over the Hinwil-based BMW Sauber team, according to the Brazilian newspaper O Globo.

It is claimed that 56-year-old Brazilian Piquet, a triple World Champion, may be eyeing Sauber in collaboration with Super Nova GP2 team chief David Sears.

"All I can say is that I like the name 'Piquet F1'. What do you think?" Piquet's son and namesake, who on Monday may be formally stepped down as Fernando Alonso's Renault teammate, is said to have reacted to the report.

Mentioned by the Swiss newspaper Blick as a possible Sauber saviour is Fritz Kaiser, who sold his original team share to Red Bull in 1999.

Joan Villadelprat is also a name doing the rounds after his Epsilon Euskadi application to debut in 2010 was turned down by the FIA.

"To take BMW's place would be difficult, but if a vacancy becomes available we will be there," he told the Spanish sports newspaper AS.



Villadelprat claims his team would be better placed than the new entrants Campos, Manor and USF1.

"In the US there are only 15 people working on their project," he said. "Manor is trying to sell part of the shares and of Adrian (Campos' project) I know nothing, but the rumours are that it is not doing so well.

"I am in permanent contact with the FIA and Ecclestone," Villadelprat added. "I am sure that we will be in F1, I don't know if it's in a week, a month or a year."

© CAPSIS International
Source: GMM

[I am evil Homer]

Well it's in a good position for someone to take over in terms of the staff, windtunnel etc. Be interesting to see if Piquet Snr could get some home backing from the likes of Petrobras or and ethanol supplier.

[N. Jones]

I hope Piquet Sr doesn't take the team over as I don't want to be subjected to his son anymore...

Give it to Epsilon and see what they do.

[Roamy]

I really think it would be good. Yea we would see jr again but Sr. would not pass up a known fast driver.

[Garry Walker]

Why not? Wouldnt mind him taking over BMW Sauber

[ioan]

I hope Piquet Sr doesn't take the team over as I don't want to be subjected to his son anymore...

Give it to Epsilon and see what they do.

Epsilon doesn't need the Sauber team, they only want their entry in teh F1 Championship, and I do not agree with this.

Let Piquet have it together with Sauber probably and have them run Piquet Jr. and Heidfeld.

IMO Piquet Jr. is a better driver than what Renault (didn't) manage to do with him.

[inimitablestoo]

Agreed. Given Flav's history of providing two "equal" cars where one car is more equal than the other, I'd like to see Nelsinho given another chance. He was no slouch in F3 or GP2, anyway.

[truefan72]

Let piquet Sr form his team if he has the money, and if he wants to run his son then that's his choice.

It is an attractive buy for anyone in formula one. Even the Macs might buy up the team and run it as a b-team like STR, but my hope is for an independent team to come in and buy it up.

where is SuperAguri when you need them. I would love to see them back in F1 after nick stupid fry's meddling.

[Sonic]

Wish my dad was rich enough to buy me a team.

How does the song go again?

Hush little baby, don't say a word
Daddy's gonna buy you a mocking bird
And if that mocking bird don't sing
Daddy's gonna buy you a diamond ring
And if that diamond ring don't shine
Daddy's gonna buy you a grand prix drive......

Or something like that :p

[N. Jones]

Well! I guess I am in the minority here. :)
My other worry is I would hope the team wouldn't go the way of ProstGP....

[ioan]

Well! I guess I am in the minority here. :)
My other worry is I would hope the team wouldn't go the way of ProstGP....

Piquet Sr is a cunning business man, unlike Alain Prost.

[Saint Devote]

World champion Nelson Piquet is no idiot. He knows full well that his little boy will never do what Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve did.

There will not be a Piquet f1 team anyway - Ross Brawn just makes it LOOK easy - like when Nelson used to lap the circuit in the Brabham. It is not.

[I am evil Homer]

Piquet Sr is a cunning business man, unlike Alain Prost.

Absolutely....if Nelsinho were to drive for the team and then didn't perform, he'd be shown the door - of that I have no doubt!

[ioan]

Absolutely....if Nelsinho were to drive for the team and then didn't perform, he'd be shown the door - of that I have no doubt!

I think Jr. will do OK if he gets cuddled enough. He did great before he came into F1 and he had his good moments in F1 too, he's certainly good enough to deserve another chance.

[Jag_Warrior]

The prospect of getting fired by your dad? Wow, that would really suck.

[ClarkFan]

Wish my dad was rich enough to buy me a team.

How does the song go again?



More like:
Oh, Lord, won't you buy me the BMW team,
My friends drive for Ferrari, to win would be my dream,
Worked hard all my life time and kept on the beam,
Oh, Lord, won't you buy me the BMW team.


With profound apologies to the memory of Janis Joplin.... :p

ClarkFan

[DexDexter]

Piquet Sr is a cunning business man, unlike Alain Prost.

He is also a bit like Briatore I hear, not a very nice person. He certainly made quite rude comments about Nigel Mansell's wife when they were team mates back in the 80's, so maybe he could actually be a good team owner/manager, like Flavio.

[CNR]

The prospect of getting fired by your dad? Wow, that would really suck.
it has happen in australia in v8 supercars

Andrew Jones, son of V8 Supercar team owner Kim Jones and nephew of owner/driver Brad

[Jon 'Massa' Beagles]

Well the deadline for him to take over BMW and sign the Concorde Agreement has passed yesterday unfortunately. Maybe 2011 then? ;)

[Knock-on]

They will need someone slower than NP jr to partner him so that qualifies me out :D

Perhaps Ide?

[ioan]

Well the deadline for him to take over BMW and sign the Concorde Agreement has passed yesterday unfortunately. Maybe 2011 then? ;)

What a pity.

Apparently BMW wanted more than Sauber thinks would have been fair and as a consequence they will lose out on the commercial income warranted by the Concorde agreement.
I suppose BMW are OK with paying redundancies for 700 people! :\

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77574

[Cooper_S]

Sauber forgot that the 80% he sold in Sauber was worth a lot less than the 80% of BMW.Sauber he wished to purchase...

This is just round 1 of the negotiations... but if no sensible buyer is found they YES, I am sure BMW can afford to pay redundancies, they will after all be saving 100's of millions plus the assets of the operation.

[ioan]

Sauber forgot that the 80% he sold in Sauber was worth a lot less than the 80% of BMW.Sauber he wished to purchase...

The economic climate changed since than.
Also Sauber were 5th or so in the championship when he sold the team because BMW wanted it. Now BMW are looking like 2nd worse or worse team out there and they are looking to sell the team.


This is just round 1 of the negotiations... but if no sensible buyer is found they YES, I am sure BMW can afford to pay redundancies, they will after all be saving 100's of millions plus the assets of the operation.

And wouldn't it be cheaper to only pay half of that and get rid of the rest for free?!

If they are asking too much than they might as well keep it cause it isn't the right moment to try keeping the price high.

[Cooper_S]

Peter thought he had BMW over a barrel.... he didn't simple as that...

[truefan72]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

[Roamy]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

Absolutely Truefan but just the mention of BMW to the Euro's and DOCTOR Theissen can do no wrong. He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

[ioan]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

Please point out where you know from that these are Theissen's demands and stance.
I'm looking forward to see your in depth information on this matter.

[ioan]

Absolutely Truefan but just the mention of BMW to the Euro's and DOCTOR Theissen can do no wrong. He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

Why am I not surprised to see the hater back?
The question above applies to you too redneck. Make sure you have something to cover your stupid remarks about Dr. Theissen and the Euros.

[N. Jones]

It would be nice to see Peter Sauber in control of the team again.

However it plays out I just hope to see 13 teams on the grid in Australia.

[ClarkFan]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

From the wording of the report in Motorsport.com, it sounds more like the Board told both Sauber and Thiessen to buzz off.

http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=339864&FS=F1

Not sure if that can correctly be hung on Thiessen, although the Board could have been saying, "You squandered hundredes of millions of the company's money and now want to buy the team for a song? B****r off!" :eek:

But the real question the Board has to face is how much a 2nd-tier F1 team is worth in a rotten economy, without a Concorde revenue stream. The team currently leading both the WDC and WCC can't find a decent lead sponsor. Aside from the wind tunnel, getting $0.05 for 80% of the rest of the operation may represent $0.05 more than fair market value. Shutting it down gets $0.00 less severance/layoff costs.

ClarkFan

[jso1985]

He is also a bit like Briatore I hear, not a very nice person. He certainly made quite rude comments about Nigel Mansell's wife when they were team mates back in the 80's, so maybe he could actually be a good team owner/manager, like Flavio.

He just had/has a sense of humour that only SouthAmericans might understand, we joke that way without meaning to be rude.

After watching "W" the other day I'm starting to relate Nelsinho to George W! how many favours from daddy he needs or is he trying to hard to impress him? luckily there's no Jeb Piquet career to screw :p

[Knock-on]

But the real question the Board has to face is how much a 2nd-tier F1 team is worth in a rotten economy, without a Concorde revenue stream. The team currently leading both the WDC and WCC can't find a decent lead sponsor. Aside from the wind tunnel, getting $0.05 for 80% of the rest of the operation may represent $0.05 more than fair market value. Shutting it down gets $0.00 less severance/layoff costs.

ClarkFan

You have to wonder what the options are.

Perhaps they have other options on the table, perhaps they don't.

What I do know is that they will have committments for next year and it isn't as easy as just shutting shop.

I suggest all sides better just sit down and decide what is the best way forward or stop pissing in the wind and wind it up.

Forget all the huff and puff about the concord agreement. (Was there ever a better example of misnaming than calling that contract Harmonious :rolleyes: ) The agreement can be sorted out retrospectivly if necessary.

However, they do need to have this resolved in the next few weeks why there is still a team.

As you say, how much is a failing team worth now? Honda did well to get out as cleanly as they did which was before the recession really bit.

[Cooper_S]

What I do know is that they will have committments for next year and it isn't as easy as just shutting shop..


Like what?

By not signing the agreement they are no longer committed to F1 for the next 3 years... (that was a factor in announcing the withdrawal so suddenly was it not) and so the £100,000,000+ cost of that is pure savings, they still own 80% of any freehold land and assets... and any costs involved in redundancies will soon be outweighed by the money they will save by walking away.

[Sonic]

Absolutely Truefan but just the mention of BMW to the Euro's and DOCTOR Theissen can do no wrong. He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

Whilst I don't agree with the general sentiment and general anti-european stance you do at least make one valid point.

Honda have bent over backwards to provide Brawn with everything required to succeed and all without any favourable publicity for who outside of the die hard fans know what Honda have done for Brawn GP? Whereas BMW seem to be out for as much as they can get - just another reason we are well shot of them.

[Knock-on]

Like what?

By not signing the agreement they are no longer committed to F1 for the next 3 years... (that was a factor in announcing the withdrawal so suddenly was it not) and so the £100,000,000+ cost of that is pure savings, they still own 80% of any freehold land and assets... and any costs involved in redundancies will soon be outweighed by the money they will save by walking away.

Do they own the land and buildings or are they contracted to them?
When are the drivers contracts due?
Who wants to buy the assets of a specialist F1 racing team in this climate?
What over comittments are in place with suppliers / partners?
What are the contractual implications and get out clauses with sponsors?

That should do for a few million starts ;)

He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

Eh?

You are talking about the same Honda who dropped their bombshell of a pull out three weeks before Christmas with the workforce thinking it was secure for 2009 as it had been winter testing two weeks earlier?

Stop talking out of your arse for once and deal with facts.

[V12]

Whilst I don't agree with the general sentiment and general anti-european stance you do at least make one valid point.

Honda have bent over backwards to provide Brawn with everything required to succeed and all without any favourable publicity for who outside of the die hard fans know what Honda have done for Brawn GP? Whereas BMW seem to be out for as much as they can get - just another reason we are well shot of them.

Agreed - I clicked on this thread to post a Honda/BMW comparison but this sums it up nicely.

[Cooper_S]

Agreed - I clicked on this thread to post a Honda/BMW comparison but this sums it up nicely.


Then you are both guilty of the same delusion.... well done you.

[Cooper_S]

Do they own the land and buildings or are they contracted to them?
When are the drivers contracts due?
Who wants to buy the assets of a specialist F1 racing team in this climate?
What over commitments are in place with suppliers / partners?
What are the contractual implications and get out clauses with sponsors?

That should do for a few million starts ;)

1. They own them...
2. Kubica's ends this season, Heidfield's next but I suspect that will cost peanuts.
3. Assets are assets, F1 are not the only people who could make use of them, and the climate will change again.
4. Who knows..
5. Who knows..

The point is paying redundancies, mothballing the assets, paying off sponsors will still be less than competing one season in F1... even if it was equal, BMW are no longer tied to competing to 2012 so will still be saving money long term.

[Hondo]

Maybe BMW has no intention of leaving F1, at least not permanently. Maybe they want a chance to see how the FOTA-EU-FIA thing is going to shake out.

[Cooper_S]

Maybe BMW has no intention of leaving F1, at least not permanently. Maybe they want a chance to see how the FOTA-EU-FIA thing is going to shake out.

While I could easily believe that up until the Hungarian GP, BMW had no intentions of leaving F1 and that the decision was basically forced upon the team by the board back in Munich, I very much doubt that they would create this much bad publicity intentionally, knowing they where intending to stay in...

No... I believe BMW's adventure in F1 is now all but resigned to the history books... can't be nice knowing you still have 7 races to attend.

[Knock-on]

1. They own them...
2. Kubica's ends this season, Heidfield's next but I suspect that will cost peanuts.
3. Assets are assets, F1 are not the only people who could make use of them, and the climate will change again.
4. Who knows..
5. Who knows..

The point is paying redundancies, mothballing the assets, paying off sponsors will still be less than competing one season in F1... even if it was equal, BMW are no longer tied to competing to 2012 so will still be saving money long term.

There's no point argueing because we don't know the facts.

Basically, the F1 team is insolvant and not planning to race next year. It has no money to continue. However, there are outstanding contracts and by the time you have paid off the workforce and creditors, you will be paying more than the assets you put so much faith by.

Surely it is better to do a deal where Sauber can take over the operation, safeguarding the peoples jobs and probably negating your liability in the process?

For some reason, they have not chosen to do this.

[555-04Q2]

Is this maybe a case of daddy coming to the rescue of his son to ensure he has an F1 drive :?:

[Sonic]

Then you are both guilty of the same delusion.... well done you.

No delusion coop, simple facts. BMW 700+ people out of work, a team with roots 15+ years old gone from the grid. Honda 450 people still in gainful employment, a team with a 10+ year history saved.

Simples.

[Cooper_S]

For some reason, they have not chosen to do this.


as you say we don't know the facts...

Believe me, I am, as a BMW fan, gutted at the situation, and I would love for Peter Sauber, if possible to keep the team going... but I also believe there is more to this than has been told and BMW are not as bad as some would like to paint.

[Cooper_S]

No delusion coop, simple facts. BMW 700+ people out of work, a team with roots 15+ years old gone from the grid. Honda 450 people still in gainful employment, a team with a 10+ year history saved.

Simples.


Simple is right... so not HONDA 450 (actually it's 430) people still in gainful employment... more like Brawn GP 270 sacked... the same would still apply to any Sauber rescued team.

Honda had it's 2009 car ready to run... and was contracted to race in 2009 it was FORCED to do what it did...

as I said in a previous post, it is devastating situation, we do not know all the facts and Honda and BMW are not as far a part as some deluded individuals wish us to believe.

[I am evil Homer]

Do they own the land and buildings or are they contracted to them?
When are the drivers contracts due?
Who wants to buy the assets of a specialist F1 racing team in this climate?
What over comittments are in place with suppliers / partners?
What are the contractual implications and get out clauses with sponsors?

That should do for a few million starts ;)

1) They do
2) Already been covered
3) A new entrant perhaps? Someone like Prodrive who can use them for other projects? Toyota?
4) Credit Suisse left already, Intel leaving end of this year, Petronas was year-by-year and free is exchange for race fuel. Suppliers would have been paid for this season so it doesn't matter what happens in 2010.
5) See above....it would cost very little and they had very few sponsors for it to be an issue

[Sonic]

as I said in a previous post, it is devastating situation, we do not know all the facts and Honda and BMW are not as far a part as some deluded individuals wish us to believe.

I agree its a bad situation for F1 however I'm allowed a POV. And whilst that may be different from yours that does not make me delusional :mad:

[Cooper_S]

I agree its a bad situation for F1 however I'm allowed a POV. And whilst that may be different from yours that does not make me delusional :mad:

Of course you are entitled to your POV, as am I and it is my POV that you maybe delusional...

I never said that because it is my POV that it is true however, in fact on this occasion I will accept it isn't ;)

[Sonic]

Of course you are entitled to your POV, as am I amd it is my POV that you are delusional...

I never said it true however, in fact on this occasion I will accept it isn't ;)

Now you sound like FOTA; trying to keep everyone happy all the time ;)

[Cooper_S]

Could be worse and be like FIA and annoying everybody.

The truth here as you will have guessed is that I lean towards the BMW view due to the many, many years supporting BMW Motorsport teams (in all series they race). I am still reeling from the F1 bombshell... but much as I am saddened at the news I am not going to kick the organisation that has given me so many rewards over the years in competition... sad I know.

[Cooper_S]

Another take of the Sauber buyout...

We all know that Peter Sauber is passionate about F1 and about his former team... but he is also 66 years of age now... so how much longer can he realistically run an F1 team.

Even that great man Ken Tyrrell who sold his team in 1997 when he was aged 73 had in reality pretty much handed over full control of his team to his son and Harvey Postlethwaite by 1991 (when he was about the same age as Sauber...)

The ever present Ron has finally gone leaving Frank Williams (67) and Head (64)who are close to retiring and attend few races now but they have an established team, not a new start up one and they are also a partnership so can share the job /responcibilites/stress etc.

Is this in reality just wishful thinking on Peter Saubers part... surely the team if sold needs to have younger blood...

Maybe Sauber and Thiessen together could do something but I hold out little hope of that... but I could be wrong

[ioan]

Another take of the Sauber buyout...

We all know that Peter Sauber is passionate about F1 and about his former team... but he is also 66 years of age now... so how much longer can he realistically run an F1 team.

Another 5-10 years are realistic IMO.
And let's be honest 5 years is a lot of time when you think that F1 is only aged 60.

[ratonmacias]

you know whats better than being rich?

having a rich dad that way you dont work and only do what you like.

seems fitting here.

[ratonmacias]

Another 5-10 years are realistic IMO.
And let's be honest 5 years is a lot of time when you think that F1 is only aged 60.

agree bmw should make thing easy for a sauber takeover.

[Cooper_S]

Another take of the Sauber buyout...

We all know that Peter Sauber is passionate about F1 and about his former team... but he is also 66 years of age now... so how much longer can he realistically run an F1 team.
Another 5-10 years are realistic IMO.
And let's be honest 5 years is a lot of time when you think that F1 is only aged 60.

OK... so despite my giving examples at to why at 66 he may be too old to run a team and drive it back up to the heights it never achieved under a younger Peter Sauber... you instead give me 5-10 years as being realistic

Now I fully appreciate this is qualified with an IMO after it but still with respect I would think that most people would go with 2-3 years max. as far more realistic and I would find that figure harder to disagree with.

You are correct however in that a year is a long time in F1 so a lot could happen in 3 years, but I still disagree the Peter Sauber's ambition is workable long term.

[jens]

Piquet Sr has already bought teams in lower series to pave his son's way upwards in racing career ladder. Can't say I'm really fond of such solution - if no-one wants an uncompetitive driver, then lets buy a whole team and get a drive there! That's already a higher level compared to paydrivers...

[Jon 'Massa' Beagles]

For sure Sauber saving his team (not a coincidence that it was always called BMW-Sauber folks...) is a stop-gap to handing it over to someone with the resources to run it properly.

In fact I'd go as far to say that he'd have considered removing his involvement from the team in the next few years had BMW's F1 project stayed solvent. I do expect someone to come in and take them over...but I'd be surprised if it happened and was all tied up by 2010. And even if it was it would take a massive rule change (as we had this year) to give them a shot at being anywhere near competitive.

[ioan]

Piquet Sr has already bought teams in lower series to pave his son's way upwards in racing career ladder. Can't say I'm really fond of such solution - if no-one wants an uncompetitive driver, then lets buy a whole team and get a drive there! That's already a higher level compared to paydrivers...

Who care about what Piquet Sr did with is own money?
What is important is that his son delivered back then and it wasn't a waste of money for his father.