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woody2goody
26th July 2009, 02:23
I thought it would be best to start this thread now, as it's inevitably going to be discussed over the next few weeks.

Assuming Felipe will not be fit for the next race, who is likely to replace him, at least for that event?

I'm guessing it comes down to three candidates:

Marc Gene
Luca Badoer
Michael Schumacher

Are there any more in the frame?

Outside shots, if they are looking for a longer term (i.e. rest of season) replacement, maybe Tonio Liuzzi, a fellow Italian. There aren't many others who would be available and up to speed with an F1 car.

Any thoughts?

Nikki Katz
26th July 2009, 02:42
I think that this depends on the time that he's out for. For all we know he could be fit for the next race. Assuming he misses just one or two then I imagine it'd be Badoer; if it looks like it'll be longer then they might go for someone else, like they did with Salo. Schumacher would be their first choice but he'd probably say no. Past that I'm not too sure - any new drivers would face the same experience problems as that guy at Toro Rosso whose name I can't spell. I'm not sure that putting someone like Senna in the car at the moment would be helpful. Unless they can persuade someone further down the grid to leap up for a few races (who would do this? Would have to be someone almost out of a drive. Fisichella???) then Badoer is still probably the best option.

ClarkFan
26th July 2009, 02:55
At this point, Schumacher will only do it if the idea seems like fun to him. A loose, relaxed Michael Schumacher, out to have a good time, would be an interesting force to turn loose on the F1 grid for the end of the season.

ClarkFan

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 03:05
I think Fisi WOULD do it, as he's always wanted to drive for Ferrari, but to be honest his best bet for now is to stay at Force India.

I know this sounds daft, but who's the most recent driver with F1 experience? Sebastien Bourdais...

Maybe they could engineer a deal with Renault to get Piquet if indeed Hungary will be his last race for the team.

Top be honest though, they should give one of the old guys a chance. Either Gene or Badoer would probably be a better bet than Nelsinho to be honest.

I'd love Luca to get another shot at F1. As far as I know, he hasn't scored a point yet in his career, so that would be a great opportunity to finally shake off the tag as 'one of the best F1 drivers never to have scored a point'.

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 03:06
At this point, Schumacher will only do it if the idea seems like fun to him. A loose, relaxed Michael Schumacher, out to have a good time, would be an interesting force to turn loose on the F1 grid for the end of the season.

ClarkFan

I say bring it on. Well, it would be good publicity for ferrari after a pretty crappy season, and I'm convinced Michael could still pull it out of the bag and grab a podium or two before the end of the season.

ClarkFan
26th July 2009, 03:16
I know this sounds daft, but who's the most recent driver with F1 experience? Sebastien Bourdais...

Bourdais would be more likely as a replacement for Piquet at Renault if they decide Grosjean is a little too hard on carbon fiber.

Which is not to say it is likely Bourdais goes to Renault. Besides any issues from his STR stint, there were stories a few years ago that Bourdais had refused to be managed by Briatore after winning the F3000 championship. Flavio remembers those who refuse to put coins in his pocket...... :\

ClarkFan

Valve Bounce
26th July 2009, 03:33
I can't see Massa being able to drive again this year. Under the circumstances, I would not be surprised to see SchM back in F1.

N. Jones
26th July 2009, 03:52
One question though - will the mechanics be able to get his car ready for the replacement driver??

nigelred5
26th July 2009, 03:57
One question though - will the mechanics be able to get his car ready for the replacement driver??

I think it will be a tough decision to put another driver in the car for tomorrow, however it did not look that badly damaged. I suspect they may get it rebuilt, but the decision will rest on how he does overnight in the Hospital. Here's hoping that we actaully see one of their reserve drivers on track Tomorrow as a sign of a good night and positive signs in the hospital.

ClarkFan
26th July 2009, 04:00
One question though - will the mechanics be able to get his car ready for the replacement driver??
Tomorrow or in 4 weeks?

I think it is unlikely we will see a second Ferrari on the grid tomorrow. Four weeks is plenty of time to get a car ready.

ClarkFan

Ranger
26th July 2009, 04:06
One question though - will the mechanics be able to get his car ready for the replacement driver??

There will not be a replacement for tomorrow.

After that, my head says Gene.

Schumacher would do the best job but I'm not sure he nor Ferrari would want the international publicity that would follow, especially given the circumstances.

CNR
26th July 2009, 04:12
(Sébastien Bourdais) ? nicolas todt connection (manager of current Ferrari driver Felipe Massa (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Felipe_Massa).)
they replaced there 3 driver with Mika Salo when michel broke his leg

maximilian
26th July 2009, 04:29
Barrichello! :D

Hawkmoon
26th July 2009, 04:29
I think Ferrari would probably try and get a current driver if they were in the championship fight, like they did in '99. As it stands I think they'll load the car up with testing gear and stick Gene or Badoer in the car. Might as well get a start on 2010.

I've had a thought. How much would it take to get Alonso in the car? Rumour has it he's in for 2010. Might as well get a start on that front too.

Yeah, OK, highly unlikely I know. Would be bloody interesting though!

Rollo
26th July 2009, 05:04
After that, my head says Gene.


Your head says good stuff.

Gene ad Baddoer are the only test drivers registered for Ferrari, and I think it highly unlikely that Badoer would enter a GP 10 years after his previous one. Gene on the other hand has had recent experience at actual racing, what with being a 2009 Le Mans 24 Hours winner.

race_director
26th July 2009, 06:51
i would go for the sabastian from STR . who was de roastered last week.


it would be great to see team STR faces. if sabastian scores some point and podiums

Tazio
26th July 2009, 06:52
it would be good publicity for ferrari
Yea' that's it! Ferrari need publicity :confused:
That is one of the moot irrelevant and naive comments you've ever posted.
And you've had some doooooozies :laugh:

markabilly
26th July 2009, 07:30
Sorry, I could really care less who it is right now....

Roamy
26th July 2009, 08:00
Sorry, I could really care less who it is right now....

Yes I hear you. Rak may pullout today as well. Massa will be out the rest of the season and I just pray for a full recovery. We have to understand that the slightest permanent damage will probably end Massa's career. It is a very intense time for him the next 48 hrs but this will not be easy regardless if he recovers 100%. Da Matta who we know will probably never make it back all the way. You can just imagine what these incredible driver possess that is driven by the brain. it is hard to comprehend just how talented these people are.

Tazio
26th July 2009, 08:27
Yes it is hard to comprehend just how talented these people are.That's true if you personally were never highly talented athletically in anything difficult .

Roamy
26th July 2009, 08:32
if that your assumption is referring you me then as usual you are incorrect.
But then again there are those that are so far in last place they think they are in first!

Tazio
26th July 2009, 09:33
Sorry, I could really care less who it is right now....I have it upon reliable sources that Ferrari
are in marathon negotiations to put:

1LXDEPrIr9I
Danica is only actully mad because Milka refused her Lesbian advances


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/475250081_e4b061b47a.jpg

Garry Walker
26th July 2009, 09:39
One question though - will the mechanics be able to get his car ready for the replacement driver??

They cant for this race, it is not allowed by rules.
Ferrari has only one car in the race today.
I remember reading that Badoer has it in his contract that if any of the race drivers gets injured, he gets the place. He would deserve it for many years of loyal work for Ferrari.

Roamy
26th July 2009, 09:43
I found the rule

Ferrari has only confirmed that Massa would not be lining up on the grid for round ten of the season, causing some speculation about possible replacements, but the regulations insist that any driver change would have had to have been confirmed prior to the session in which Massa suffered his freak, but potentially life-threatening, accident.

According to rule 19.1 of the F1 sporting regulations, under the heading of driver changes, replacements 'may be made at any time before the start of the qualifying practice session, provided any change proposed after 1600hrs on the day of scrutineering receives the consent of the stewards'. The rulebook does add, however, that 'additional changes for reasons of force majeure will be considered separately'.

Tazio
26th July 2009, 09:48
If Ferrari can only run one car.
Brawn ought to step up to the plate and black flag one or both of his drivers
His machiery put someone out. It would be verysporting, and dramatic.
Which one to black flack flag though?
If he had any class he would black flag both of them! :eek:

ioan
26th July 2009, 11:23
Sorry, I could really care less who it is right now....

:up:

Valve Bounce
26th July 2009, 11:27
There will not be a replacement for tomorrow.

After that, my head says Gene.

Schumacher would do the best job but I'm not sure he nor Ferrari would want the international publicity that would follow, especially given the circumstances.

Why?? Massa out till next year, and SchM makes a sensational comeback! Bernie would salivate for bloody months.

Valve Bounce
26th July 2009, 11:31
If Ferrari can only run one car.
Brawn ought to step up to the plate and black flag one or both of his drivers
His machinery put someone out. It would be very sporting, and dramatic.
Which one to black flack flag though?
If he had any class he would black flag both of them! :eek:

No! I don't think so. It was a freak accident, and I don't see the sense in blaming anyone. I think that the Ferrari Kimi was driving a few years ago constituted a far more dangerous environment for other cars on the track. And I didn't blame Kimi for trying to finish and win then.

Dave B
26th July 2009, 11:33
If Ferrari can only run one car.
Brawn ought to step up to the plate and black flag one or both of his drivers
His machiery put someone out. It would be verysporting, and dramatic.
Which one to black flack flag though?
If he had any class he would black flag both of them! :eek:
So long as his cars are safe (as safe as any racing car can ever be) then of course Ross Brawn should enter them in the race. To black-flag a perfectly safe racing car would be insane.

Dave B
26th July 2009, 11:35
I think that the Ferrari Kimi was driving a few years ago constituted a far more dangerous environment for other cars on the track. And I didn't blame Kimi for trying to finish and win then.
Do you mean when his exhaust pipe was flapping loose? The Barrichello / Massa incident has demonstrated why Kimi should have been meatballed that day. It would have been a million-to-one chance that a loose component might have hit somebody, but we saw yesterday what the consequences could be.

ioan
26th July 2009, 12:27
Do you mean when his exhaust pipe was flapping loose? The Barrichello / Massa incident has demonstrated why Kimi should have been meatballed that day. It would have been a million-to-one chance that a loose component might have hit somebody, but we saw yesterday what the consequences could be.

I have to say that I was against them retiring Kimi last season in France, but I realize now that the danger from that flapping exhaust pipe might have been much higher than what I could calculate back than.

Tazio
26th July 2009, 12:41
So long as his cars are safe (as safe as any racing car can ever be) then of course Ross Brawn should enter them in the race. To black-flag a perfectly safe racing car would be insane.

I guess I've watched the Movie "Grand Prix" too many times. :p :

johngordon
26th July 2009, 12:50
I think the most important issuie here is not the replacment but in massa's health. Although the press use kind works its a very serious injury and could have deep reprocussions.
I wish Massa a very speedy recovery and my heart is out to his family in these uncertain times.

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 13:16
Yea' that's it! Ferrari need publicity :confused:
That is one of the moot irrelevant and naive comments you've ever posted.
And you've had some doooooozies :laugh:

And you're such a pillar of wisdom aren't you?

It would be GOOD publicity for them as opposed to the crappy season they are having.

And to be honest i can't think of anything more irrelevant than posting a picture of some strange drowning girl after every single post...

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 13:23
PS I was speaking to my mum and she thought that Coulthard would be a good replacement due to his experience. IMO there aren't that many better options, but I doubt he'd leave his new job.

Dave B
26th July 2009, 13:25
PS I was speaking to my mum and she thought that Coulthard would be a good replacement due to his experience. IMO there aren't that many better options, but I doubt he'd leave his new job.
DC was recently reinstated as the official Red Bull reserve driver after Jamie's promotion to a Toro Rosso race seat. What's Eddie Irvine up to these days? :p

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 13:28
DC was recently reinstated as the official Red Bull reserve driver after Jamie's promotion to a Toro Rosso race seat. What's Eddie Irvine up to these days? :p

I wouldn't like to guess :D

Let's list the guys who have recent experience, substantial previous experience or are available at the moment.

M Schumacher
R Schumacher
Klien
Liuzzi
Villeneuve
Wurz
Gene
Badoer
Coulthard

Valve Bounce
26th July 2009, 13:51
I guess I've watched the Movie "Grand Prix" too many times. :p :

Into the Lion's den, then! :p :

Valve Bounce
26th July 2009, 13:52
Do you mean when his exhaust pipe was flapping loose? The Barrichello / Massa incident has demonstrated why Kimi should have been meatballed that day. It would have been a million-to-one chance that a loose component might have hit somebody, but we saw yesterday what the consequences could be.

No! I mean when his front wheel was bouncing around like a yo-yo.

gm99
26th July 2009, 13:53
I think Badoer would really deserve to be allowed to drive a Ferrari in a race once after all the test work he has done over the years and having been passed over in favor of Salo the last time the Scuderia needed a substitute driver. And this time it's not like Ferrari are in the fight for a world championship.

I don't expect Schuey to come back - he doesn't really have anything to gain from it, especially given that Ferrari are not front runners this season.

nigelred5
26th July 2009, 15:18
Doesn't a replacement driver have to be one of the currently designated reserve and testing drivers? That would limit it to Gene, badoer, and Schumacher. My money is on Gene for the next round.

Dave B
26th July 2009, 15:46
There's absolutely nothing to stop Ferrari changing the designated reserve between now and Valencia. But yes, my money's still on Gene.

ioan
26th July 2009, 16:04
Doesn't a replacement driver have to be one of the currently designated reserve and testing drivers?

AFAIK no.

Nikki Katz
26th July 2009, 16:09
Doesn't a replacement driver have to be one of the currently designated reserve and testing drivers? That would limit it to Gene, badoer, and Schumacher. My money is on Gene for the next round.
By the rules, no. However, after missing out on the drive when Schumacher was injured, Badoer may have it in his contract that he is the replacement. I think that was the case for him re-signing in 2000, but that's a long time ago, may be different now.

christophulus
26th July 2009, 17:34
The rules say they can use a maximum of four drivers per season. So as long as whoever they choose has a superlicence anyone can step in, although overlooking your test drivers when you're struggling to keep them busy anyway wouldn't be popular!

ioan
26th July 2009, 17:37
The rules say they can use a maximum of four drivers per season. So as long as whoever they choose has a superlicence anyone can step in, although overlooking your test drivers when you're struggling to keep them busy anyway wouldn't be popular!

This isn't a popularity contest.
Ferrari are trying to get 3rd in the constructors championship and they will need a driver capable of scoring points.
3rd place means a lot more money than 4th gets, worth not being popular with one of your test drivers who last drove a race in 2004.

christophulus
26th July 2009, 17:41
This isn't a popularity contest.
Ferrari are trying to get 3rd in the constructors championship and they will need a driver capable of scoring points.
3rd place means a lot more money than 4th gets, worth not being popular with one of your test drivers who last drove a race in 2004.

Very true, but I doubt Ferrari would have them as test/reserve drivers if they didn't think they were up to the job.

ioan
26th July 2009, 17:43
Very true, but I doubt Ferrari would have them as test/reserve drivers if they didn't think they were up to the job.

They excellent test drivers there is no denial to that, but when it comes to racing I'd rather have Piquet than Gene or Badoer.

Nikki Katz
26th July 2009, 17:55
It does sound a bit like it'll be Gene, but was it Williams that he was subbed in for before? I don't recall him being hugely impressive. Badoer's not raced in F1 for 10 years though. I'm sure that they'd like to get someone like Sutil, but as much as he'd like a Ferrari seat, Ferrari already seem to have 3 drivers in 2 cars next year, he'd just lose his place at Force India. Likewise Liuzzi, who should be racing with Force India next year. Maybe then someone like Wurz, who looks like he'll be at USF1 next year, so losing a Brawn test seat during a testing ban wouldn't be a major issue.

I think that there's reasons that Bourdais was dropped at that Piquet might be, I think they're unlikely. It would be nice if Piquet was still around at a smaller team though next year.

jens
26th July 2009, 19:08
Well, in 1999 Ferrari opted for Salo instead of Badoer, so maybe they'll be looking for a driver outside their team again? And I think it would be sensible to search for an "outsider", considering that due to testing ban Gene/Badoer haven't tested F60 much anyway and haven't much more experience in this area. Willi Weber has arguably denied any MS's participation too.

In case Massa is really out for the rest of the season, then who could replace him then? I would imagine that my preference wouldn't be liked by several people here, who say that this guy has had his chances, didn't deliver or whatever, but... Sato! I'd like to see Mr Banzai making his last comeback to F1. To see this wild man behind the wheel of a Prancing Horse would be priceless. And I reckon he would be faster than either Gene or Badoer.

Dave B
26th July 2009, 19:10
Alonso will be free in Valencia... :p

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 19:14
Well, in 1999 Ferrari opted for Salo instead of Badoer, so maybe they'll be looking for a driver outside their team again? And I think it would be sensible to search for an "outsider", considering that due to testing ban Gene/Badoer haven't tested F60 much anyway and haven't much more experience in this area. Willi Weber has arguably denied any MS's participation too.

In case Massa is really out for the rest of the season, then who could replace him then? I would imagine that my preference wouldn't be liked by several people here, who say that this guy has had his chances, didn't deliver or whatever, but... Sato! I'd like to see Mr Banzai making his last comeback to F1. To see this wild man behind the wheel of a Prancing Horse would be priceless. And I reckon he would be faster than either Gene or Badoer.

Jens, I like it.

Brown, Jon Brow
26th July 2009, 20:40
Every F1 fan wanted to see Kimi versus Schumacher at Ferrari. I'd officially want Schumacher to win every race if he came back, and I used to support everybody but him.

Dave B
26th July 2009, 20:42
I'd love to see Schuey vs Kimi vs Hamilton, but I think there's more chance of me getting pleasured by the pope.

christophulus
26th July 2009, 20:44
Rumours that Piquet could be in the seat (he is effectively unemployed now), and Bourdais is managed by Nicolas Todt, who also represents Massa....

Schumacher's agent Weber has confirmed his superlicence has expired anyway so it's highly unlikely he'll be racing, which would be a great sight :(

Lennat
26th July 2009, 21:22
What would be required to get the superlicence back?

jens
26th July 2009, 21:41
What would be required to get the superlicence back?

I guess a driver like Schumacher can get it back any time he wants. :D Villeneuve hasn't raced in F1 for some time too, but doesn't stop him from wishing to make a comeback.

jso1985
26th July 2009, 22:13
I don't think they ever lost it!

Saint Devote
26th July 2009, 22:39
Ferrari are totally unprepared for this eventuality.

All the drivers eligible are crap and there is no current driver of an f1 car unsigned that is worthy of the drive.

Of course there is this problem because of the no testing rule.

Generally testing a racing makes sense - not allowing testing is a rule typical of politicians not of racing engineers.

And unfortunately the world these days is socialistic and looks to politicians rather than solutions.

F1, has essentially become a typical European sport. So sad.

woody2goody
26th July 2009, 22:50
Ferrari are totally unprepared for this eventuality.

All the drivers eligible are crap and there is no current driver of an f1 car unsigned that is worthy of the drive.

Of course there is this problem because of the no testing rule.

Generally testing a racing makes sense - not allowing testing is a rule typical of politicians not of racing engineers.

And unfortunately the world these days is socialistic and looks to politicians rather than solutions.

F1, has essentially become a typical European sport. So sad.

Ok...

What makes you say ALL the drivers available are 'crap'. I don't thinK Christian Klien is crap. Luca Badoer and Marc Gene aren't crap. I certainly don't think Michael Schumacher or David Coulthard are crap.

I'm sure Ferrari are smart enough to pick someone who can do the job.

Saint Devote
27th July 2009, 01:02
Because these days differences are measured in 200th's of a second.

None of the drivers you have mentioned will be within that gap relative to Raikonnen.

Some years ago it was good enough to be over half a second slower than a teammate, but today it is not the case.

Therefore exactly what point is there of putting sub-standard drivers in the seat? None.

It does not serve Ferrari in any way.

Maybe the regulations will force the team to select one someone, but really there is nobody that deserves the seat.

woody2goody
27th July 2009, 01:24
Because these days differences are measured in 200th's of a second.

None of the drivers you have mentioned will be within that gap relative to Raikonnen.

Some years ago it was good enough to be over half a second slower than a teammate, but today it is not the case.

Therefore exactly what point is there of putting sub-standard drivers in the seat? None.

It does not serve Ferrari in any way.

Maybe the regulations will force the team to select one someone, but really there is nobody that deserves the seat.

I doubt it would be as much as half a second. Look at Alguersuari and Buemi. Jaime wasn't half a sec slower than Buemi throughout the race. Buemi may be inexperienced, but he's got 10 GPs more than the young lad.

BTCC2
27th July 2009, 01:33
I hope that Schumacher does not return. What can he gain from it? He has his name in the record books as the greatest driver ever and anything he does when he returns can only take away from that. Leave us with the memories Michael!

superocean
27th July 2009, 08:24
As much as it would be a blast to see Schumey in there, I don't think he'll step in b/c nobody that he needs is still there. Brawn, Todt, and a few others.

I like the Sato idea as well but I doubt that would happen. forget bourdais or Piquet Jr, they both suck imo. How about an Italian driver who's driven with Ferrari engine before name Luizzi? I think he might fit in well for the rest of the season. Vitantonio would be my pick.

Garry Walker
27th July 2009, 09:15
As much as it would be a blast to see Schumey in there, I don't think he'll step in b/c nobody that he needs is still there. Brawn, Todt, and a few others.

I like the Sato idea as well but I doubt that would happen. forget bourdais or Piquet Jr, they both suck imo. How about an Italian driver who's driven with Ferrari engine before name Luizzi? I think he might fit in well for the rest of the season. Vitantonio would be my pick.

Liuzzi is a nobody and will never be allowed to drive the Ferrari, he is a joke.

Roamy
27th July 2009, 09:20
As much as it would be a blast to see Schumey in there, I don't think he'll step in b/c nobody that he needs is still there. Brawn, Todt, and a few others.

I like the Sato idea as well but I doubt that would happen. forget bourdais or Piquet Jr, they both suck imo. How about an Italian driver who's driven with Ferrari engine before name Luizzi? I think he might fit in well for the rest of the season. Vitantonio would be my pick.


Well MS says straight away he ain't doing it. (smart guy) I don't get the sato idea he has made a few fun to watch bansai runs but generally hits everything in site. The problem Ferrari has is where do the think they can finish in the constructors points? Luca and Marc won't cut it if you are looking for points so you can just rule them out. Renault has too many sponsor options to let Alonso go except for a loaner if they are suspended for a race. SeaBass would whine himself around 10 place where there are no points as would piquet. I would actually imagine a deal could be made for a force india guy if you thought one was fast enough. JV ran as fast as massa and you have a whole month to test him. BMW is nowhere so you could buy Nick if you thought he could deliver. Short of that you have to gamble.

ioan
27th July 2009, 10:59
As much as it would be a blast to see Schumey in there, I don't think he'll step in b/c nobody that he needs is still there. Brawn, Todt, and a few others.

I like the Sato idea as well but I doubt that would happen. forget bourdais or Piquet Jr, they both suck imo. How about an Italian driver who's driven with Ferrari engine before name Luizzi? I think he might fit in well for the rest of the season. Vitantonio would be my pick.

If it's not MS, I can only think about Piquet, Sato or Bourdais as drivers who drove equivalent cars not so long ago, and out of these 3 Piquet is the one that I would favor.

ioan
27th July 2009, 11:01
I don't get the sato idea he has made a few fun to watch bansai runs but generally hits everything in site.

Like overtaking Alonso's McLaren with a Super Aguri, on the outside and not touching it at all.
Did he even run into someone during his last 2 seasons? I don't remember such happening when he was with SAF1.

Saint Devote
27th July 2009, 11:09
I hope that Schumacher does not return. What can he gain from it? He has his name in the record books as the greatest driver ever and anything he does when he returns can only take away from that. Leave us with the memories Michael!

The record books and being the greatest driver is not the same thing.

It must always be taken in context. While Schumacher is ONE of the greatest drivers, his era was an easier one than say Jim Clark or Ayrton Senna and his percentages, wins:races or poles:races for example are not the highest at all.

He is not the "greatest driver ever" - and adding to that is of course his tendency to push rivals off the track.

christophulus
27th July 2009, 11:12
If it's not MS, I can only think about Piquet, Sato or Bourdais as drivers who drove equivalent cars not so long ago, and out of these 3 Piquet is the one that I would favor.

That seems like a huge gamble on Ferrari's part, Piquet and Bourdais haven't proved themselves yet, and despite their more recent racing experience I reckon they'll be overlooked for one of Ferrari's nominated reserve drivers next time out.

Ranger
27th July 2009, 11:35
That seems like a huge gamble on Ferrari's part, Piquet and Bourdais haven't proved themselves yet, and despite their more recent racing experience I reckon they'll be overlooked for one of Ferrari's nominated reserve drivers next time out.
Huge gamble? They are not looking for a future WDC, they are looking for a competent replacement.

Piquet and Bourdais are both competent F1 drivers. They would easily be a better choice than Gene or Badoer on pure merit.

Remember, Mika Salo barely set the world alight in his F1 career, but he nearly won in his second race for Ferrari when he replaced Schumacher.

Valve Bounce
27th July 2009, 11:50
After reading about the seriousness of Massa's injury, it is possible that he may not drive again till next year.
Under the circumstances, Ferrari will have to find a driver for the rest of the season rather than a short term solution. I must say that SchM would be the most suitable.

BTCC2
27th July 2009, 11:51
The record books and being the greatest driver is not the same thing.

It must always be taken in context. While Schumacher is ONE of the greatest drivers, his era was an easier one than say Jim Clark or Ayrton Senna and his percentages, wins:races or poles:races for example are not the highest at all.

He is not the "greatest driver ever" - and adding to that is of course his tendency to push rivals off the track.

I couldn't disagree more. But this isn't the thread for this.

ioan
27th July 2009, 12:17
That seems like a huge gamble on Ferrari's part, Piquet and Bourdais haven't proved themselves yet, and despite their more recent racing experience I reckon they'll be overlooked for one of Ferrari's nominated reserve drivers next time out.

They are, without a doubt, better than Gene and Badoer other wise they wouldn't have got a seat until recently.
I also believe that if Piquet gets to have the support of a race engineer like Rob Smedley he will perform much better than he did at Renault where they were busy find a way to sack him.

ioan
27th July 2009, 12:18
Remember, Mika Salo barely set the world alight in his F1 career, but he nearly won in his second race for Ferrari when he replaced Schumacher.

And it was only team orders that stopped him.

christophulus
27th July 2009, 12:26
They are, without a doubt, better than Gene and Badoer other wise they wouldn't have got a seat until recently.
I also believe that if Piquet gets to have the support of a race engineer like Rob Smedley he will perform much better than he did at Renault where they were busy find a way to sack him.

True, they are probably better race drivers.

However, some have suggested that Ferrari are stopping development on the 09 car soon. Surely they could swap in a test driver and use the remaining races and Friday practices as extended test sessions? Having a driver capable of hammering round the track for 3 hours on a Friday would be invaluable to them.

Plus I've no doubt that Badoer/Gene are capable of points finishes in a decent car (just as Piquet/Bourdais are), but their input into improving the car could be more valuable in the long run.

ioan
27th July 2009, 12:27
True, they are probably better race drivers.

However, some have suggested that Ferrari are stopping development on the 09 car soon. Surely they could swap in a test driver and use the remaining races and Friday practices as extended test sessions? Having a driver capable of hammering round the track for 3 hours on a Friday would be invaluable to them.

Maybe they will have to use Gene or Badoer during FP 1 and 2 and a good race driver for FP3, qualifying and race.



Plus I've no doubt that Badoer/Gene are capable of points finishes in a decent car (just as Piquet/Bourdais are), but their input into improving the car could be more valuable in the long run.

The hole field was within a bit more than 1 second in many qualifying seconds this season. The difference between 1st and 11th in Q2 was a little as 0.5 seconds and I believe that neither Gene nor Badoer would have gotten into Q1 this season at all and thing are getting tighter with every race.

At time Felipe and Kimi struggled to make it into the points and we should believe that Gener or Badoer could do it? No way.

Knock-on
27th July 2009, 14:13
I have to say that I was against them retiring Kimi last season in France, but I realize now that the danger from that flapping exhaust pipe might have been much higher than what I could calculate back than.

I don't make a habit of posting on here now because of a small number of members that sabotage any reasonable discussion with what I consider Trolling posts. The chief protagonist being you in my opinion.

I remember the thread you mentioned and the anger I felt that the FIA didn't do something about the flapping pipe and the way some people on here defended it for the sole reason (again, this is just my opinion) that it was a Ferrari.

Safety is something very dear to me because at various levels of motorsport, I know I can lose people that I know personally.

I very much respect your post and my opinion of you has risen accordingly :up:

ioan
27th July 2009, 14:21
I don't make a habit of posting on here now because of a small number of members that sabotage any reasonable discussion with what I consider Trolling posts. The chief protagonist being you in my opinion.

I remember the thread you mentioned and the anger I felt that the FIA didn't do something about the flapping pipe and the way some people on here defended it for the sole reason (again, this is just my opinion) that it was a Ferrari.

Safety is something very dear to me because at various levels of motorsport, I know I can lose people that I know personally.

I very much respect your post and my opinion of you has risen accordingly :up:

Thanks for your post.
It's highly appreciated. :)

27th July 2009, 14:38
I seem to recall Kimi driving around the Nurburgring in 2005 with a tyre so badly flat-spotted and worn that in ended up blowing & taking his front suspension off with it. His team were well aware of the situation but decided to keep him out.

Nobody thought Mclaren should have ordered Kimi to park it then, so it is utterly unreasonable to expect Renault to have told Fernando to park his car yesterday. He was limping back to the pits, not exactly pushing it, whereas if I remember correctly Kimi was still driving the wheels, literally, off his car in 05.

Much as I generally support the FIA, and generally think that the stewards decision, even if its wrong, should be final, this penalty is ridiculously draconian.

wedge
27th July 2009, 15:04
I seem to recall Kimi driving around the Nurburgring in 2005 with a tyre so badly flat-spotted and worn that in ended up blowing & taking his front suspension off with it. His team were well aware of the situation but decided to keep him out.

Nobody thought Mclaren should have ordered Kimi to park it then, so it is utterly unreasonable to expect Renault to have told Fernando to park his car yesterday. He was limping back to the pits, not exactly pushing it, whereas if I remember correctly Kimi was still driving the wheels, literally, off his car in 05.

Much as I generally support the FIA, and generally think that the stewards decision, even if its wrong, should be final, this penalty is ridiculously draconian.

That was when 1 set of tyres had to last the full race. It was only afterwards that the FIA clarified when tyre changes were allowed if the tyre was damaged.

Not sure whether McLaren and Charlie Whiting were in communitication regard the incident that day but Kimi wanted to stay out.

woody2goody
27th July 2009, 15:13
I seem to recall Kimi driving around the Nurburgring in 2005 with a tyre so badly flat-spotted and worn that in ended up blowing & taking his front suspension off with it. His team were well aware of the situation but decided to keep him out.

Nobody thought Mclaren should have ordered Kimi to park it then, so it is utterly unreasonable to expect Renault to have told Fernando to park his car yesterday. He was limping back to the pits, not exactly pushing it, whereas if I remember correctly Kimi was still driving the wheels, literally, off his car in 05.

Much as I generally support the FIA, and generally think that the stewards decision, even if its wrong, should be final, this penalty is ridiculously draconian.

I think the only thing saving that one was the fact that the wheel wasn't actually coming of or in danger of doing so. In the end the load from the vibrations was so much the suspension couldn't take it.

You're right about the penalty though it's absolutely ridiculous. Fine them a million pounds and get on with the racing.

Valve Bounce
27th July 2009, 15:15
I seem to recall Kimi driving around the Nurburgring in 2005 with a tyre so badly flat-spotted and worn that in ended up blowing & taking his front suspension off with it. His team were well aware of the situation but decided to keep him out.

Nobody thought Mclaren should have ordered Kimi to park it then, so it is utterly unreasonable to expect Renault to have told Fernando to park his car yesterday. He was limping back to the pits, not exactly pushing it, whereas if I remember correctly Kimi was still driving the wheels, literally, off his car in 05.

Much as I generally support the FIA, and generally think that the stewards decision, even if its wrong, should be final, this penalty is ridiculously draconian.

This is not a fair comparison, although I did mention Kimi's tyre flapping around in a post somewhere else in this forum. Kimi's condition was well known to everyone including the stewards who were watching the race, and looking back in hindsight, the stewards should have black flagged him.

However, in this case, The Renault pits were the only ones aware of the seriousness of the situation, they didn't even tell Fernando, and they are the ones who should have warned him to return very, very slowly when he thought it was a flat tyre, or tell him to park the car.

ioan
27th July 2009, 15:16
I seem to recall Kimi driving around the Nurburgring in 2005 with a tyre so badly flat-spotted and worn that in ended up blowing & taking his front suspension off with it. His team were well aware of the situation but decided to keep him out.

Nobody thought Mclaren should have ordered Kimi to park it then, so it is utterly unreasonable to expect Renault to have told Fernando to park his car yesterday. He was limping back to the pits, not exactly pushing it, whereas if I remember correctly Kimi was still driving the wheels, literally, off his car in 05.

Much as I generally support the FIA, and generally think that the stewards decision, even if its wrong, should be final, this penalty is ridiculously draconian.

Did anyone know if Kimi's tire at Nurburgring 2005 will blow (or that the suspension would break)?

No, they didn't!


Did we know that Alonso will lose the wheel yesterday?

Yes we did. Even worse the team knew it for sure! But this isn't the thread to talk about this.

wedge
27th July 2009, 15:25
I think the only thing saving that one was the fact that the wheel wasn't actually coming of or in danger of doing so. In the end the load from the vibrations was so much the suspension couldn't take it.


Luckily it was still on its tethers. Sometimes the forces are so great it will rip off the tethers.

6tn3uCwodJs

jas123f1
27th July 2009, 15:32
It's 4 weeks to next race - let's hope that Felipe is back then.
It seems that he is recovering well and however I think it’s not impossible that we can see him in Valencia. If he can’t drive in next race then he probably has more serious injured and that would be very sad.

We have to eait and see.

ioan
27th July 2009, 15:33
It's 4 weeks to next race - let's hope that Felipe is back then.

That would be suicidal even if he might feel that he could do it.

jas123f1
27th July 2009, 15:45
That would be suicidal even if he might feel that he could do it.


The medical expertise must of course have a word in it and I’m sure Massa (and the team) is a wise enough to do the right choice.

wedge
27th July 2009, 15:47
Did anyone know if Kimi's tire at Nurburgring 2005 will blow (or that the suspension would break)?

There was a huge flat spot. From the onboards it was quite obvious it was compromising the suspension.

christophulus
27th July 2009, 15:47
It's 4 weeks to next race - let's hope that Felipe is back then.

I seriously doubt that. The latest update from the hospital is that they are concerned about his eyesight

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77379


Local media quoted the hospital's professor Robert Veres from Budapest as saying that the eye injury could be enough to end Massa's F1 career.
"He has suffered some damage to the eye," said Veres. "We don't know whether he'll be able to race again."


:(

DexDexter
27th July 2009, 16:18
That would be suicidal even if he might feel that he could do it.

True. I'm afraid Felipe will not be back for a long time after an injury like that.

woody2goody
27th July 2009, 19:44
Well he will probably miss the rest of the season after the hospital statement today. To be honest I don't care as long as he recovers to be with his family.

If he comes back I will support him with all my heart but I'm just extremely relieved that he has escaped with what he has got injury-wise.

I hope to see him in 2010, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

ioan
27th July 2009, 19:48
They need someone who can overtake in Eau Rouge, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgJxtiNoQ1U

Ignore the commentary or even better turn of the sound.

If it isn't MS than Piquet, Sato or Bourdais, in this order.

ioan
27th July 2009, 19:51
Well he will probably miss the rest of the season after the hospital statement today. To be honest I don't care as long as he recovers to be with his family.

If he comes back I will support him with all my heart but I'm just extremely relieved that he has escaped with what he has got injury-wise.

I hope to see him in 2010, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I just hope he can fully recover and his left eye will be OK too.

If that is the case and he feels like racing again he's got at least 6-7 months before he has to be in the cockpit for the next season.

Placid
27th July 2009, 21:02
i would go for the sabastian from STR . who was de roastered last week.


it would be great to see team STR faces. if sabastian scores some point and podiums

I also place my vote on Seabass.

Tallgeese
27th July 2009, 22:16
Massa's replacement:


- Bourdais is possible if Nicholas Todt gets his way, & Bourdais will relish the chance at a half decent car.

- Schumacher, not bloody likely.

- Coulthard, more likely for Renault, but then again possible.

jens
27th July 2009, 22:51
I highly doubt DC would make any kind of comeback outside Red Bull Racing, where he is the third driver and he seems totally committed for that team.

CNR
27th July 2009, 23:00
Fears for Felipe Massa have eased after doctors confirmed that he was no longer in a life-threatening condition, but the seriousness of the damage to his left eye means his Formula One career may be over.

Robert Veres, one of the neurosurgeons who operated on the Brazilian's multiple skull fractures after he was hit by debris during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix, said: 'He is not critical but he will not race again this season. And I don't know if he will be able to return to racing at all.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1202460/Felipe-Massa-improving-F1-future-doubt-horror-injury-Hungarian-Grand-Prix.html#ixzz0MUkqgwRz (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1202460/Felipe-Massa-improving-F1-future-doubt-horror-injury-Hungarian-Grand-Prix.html#ixzz0MUkqgwRz)


I HOPE NOT

i think you may see michael Schumacher in a race this year
it must be remembered that one of the reasons why he retired was so that felipe could keep his drive as they had a contract with Kimi Raikkonen

CNR
27th July 2009, 23:03
Lauda: Schu should replace Massa; Ferrari testers 'useless'

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/150448/1/lauda_schu_should_replace_massa_ferrari_testers_us eless.html

ioan
27th July 2009, 23:10
Lauda: Schu should replace Massa; Ferrari testers 'useless'

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/150448/1/lauda_schu_should_replace_massa_ferrari_testers_us eless.html

For once I agree with him.

Robinho
27th July 2009, 23:11
MS won't do it, the championship is lost, tha car is not a winner (yet) i can't see MS wanting to come back as a inkury sub with nothing to prove and bugger all to gain.
Badoer and Gene presumabley feel they still have something to give, something to prove and i expect one of them (probably Gene) to drive the rest of the year.

i can't see that there are any available drivers who could do a better job than the guys who know the car and the team.

they may be tempted by someone else, but i'd be surprised

Hopefully Massa will be safe to return for next season

ioan
27th July 2009, 23:17
LdM's words leave little to hope to Badoer and Gene:



"Yesterday's race would have been perfect for Felipe. I'm heading back to Maranello with Domenicali, who will make suggestions how to substitute the Brazilian driver until he returns, which I hope will be very soon. We'll make a decision when the time is right, considering that there's a break of a month now."

If they were replacing him with the designated 3rd driver there wouldn't be any need to 'make suggestions how to substitute the Brazilian driver until he returns'.

CNR
27th July 2009, 23:31
http://www.examiner.com/x-6666-Formula-One-Examiner~y2009m7d27-Schumacher-replacement-for-Massa-unlikelyWill-it-be-Alonso-

a loophole may exist in Alonso's contract that would allow the Spanish driver to escape his Renault agreement because of a broken "basic commitment" in the contract, that says basically that Alonso must be offered an open cockpit drive for every race

jens
27th July 2009, 23:41
As talented as MS is, at the age of 40, without any kind of testing this year and having never sat in F60 before, he is not going to be a top performer straightaway. Which means he will most probably get beaten by Kimi. Michael should know his reputation well and ought not to make a comeback in such unfavorable conditions.

I would rule out Badoer's comeback. He wasn't chosen in 1999 and I don't see, why should Ferrari decide otherwise now. He isn't rated as a race driver by Ferrari. However, I don't know, how does Ferrari rate Gene in this respect, so he may have a chance. Funnily it would be his third chance as a replacement driver (also in 2003 and 2004 at Williams).

dwboogityfan
28th July 2009, 00:20
For me the best short-term option could be getting Fisichella in from Force India. He is likely to retire at the end of the season anyway but has been doing a good job this year. I'd expect Liuzzi to run for Force India in 2010 anyway so it could be a good move for everyone.
Honestly can't understand why anyone thinks Bourdais should be in the car. He has done an awful job at Toro Rosso. Being outpaced by Vettel is one thing, but to be beaten by Buemi in his rookie year is very poor. Piquet I think has more talent than he is showing at Renault so would be far more interesting.
Schumi should not return. He has no need to.

jens
28th July 2009, 00:39
I'm not really keen on drivers like Piquet or Bourdais. Piquet seems a mentally sensitive, if not vulnerable/weak, driver and has seriously underperformed at Renault. We may argue that he was a #2 driver, but nonetheless has offered way too little resistance to Alonso. Fisi was #2 too, and it is argued that he is mentally weak too, yet performed better against Alonso than Piquet has ever done. Yoong didn't get the same parts as Webber either at Minardi, but no-one calls for his comeback. Some suggest NP might be better in "other circumstances", but I suspect without any testing and in #2 role Piquet won't flourish in a high-pressure environment like Ferrari. A sensitive driver like him needs everything to be 'perfect', not to get thrown in without any preparation.

In Bourdais' case I'm not sure about his ability to adapt efficiently and he seems too capricious.

Besides Sato someone like Davidson or Liuzzi would sound fine to me. Sato can be very quick on his day, shame that he ruined his career with stupid mistakes at BAR. If his Super Aguri experience is anything to go by, he has probably matured. And there hasn't been an alesiesque half-mad driver for some time at Ferrari either - he would IMO nicely fit with the Ferrari image.

Davidson - may not be the best driver in the world, but quite reliable and I reckon a good team-worker. And the Super Aguri driver pairing from 07-08 certainly did a respectable job IMO, showing that they can cope with difficult conditions. Liuzzi probably may be more error-prone than Davidson, but can put in nice drives too. While one might say that these drivers are inconsistent, then I'm afraid the likes of Gene or Badoer or even Piquet will be 'consistently slow', so "inconsistency", which includes some good performances, is preferred.

If Ant or Liuzzi got the Ferrari drive, their career could get rejuvenated pretty much the same way like Salo's career did back in 1999.

ClarkFan
28th July 2009, 00:39
Schumi should not return. He has no need to.

I wouldn't argue that he needs to. But does he want to?

For anyone else, taking the seat would be difficult. The "Alsonso in 2010" rumors will grow even louder and Kimi still has a contract for next year. If Massa recovers fully, that makes 3 top-rank drivers with Ferrari commitments. For any driver who wants a future, filling in would mean he is desparate or foolish or both. And I would doubt that Force India would be willing to release Fisi - they are still looking to score points in 2009 to establish a place in the pecking order above the new teams.

I would only think Schumacher would take the drive for fun, as a personal challenge. Even if it doesn't work, that shouldn't affect his reputation. (There is the little matter of those 7 championships.) But I also doubt it is likely, given the comments from his long-time manager.

ClarkFan

ioan
28th July 2009, 01:02
I would only think Schumacher would take the drive for fun, as a personal challenge. Even if it doesn't work, that shouldn't affect his reputation. (There is the little matter of those 7 championships.) But I also doubt it is likely, given the comments from his long-time manager.

ClarkFan

What would MS need a manager after he retired?!

woody2goody
28th July 2009, 01:48
I'm not really keen on drivers like Piquet or Bourdais. Piquet seems a mentally sensitive, if not vulnerable/weak, driver and has seriously underperformed at Renault. We may argue that he was a #2 driver, but nonetheless has offered way too little resistance to Alonso. Fisi was #2 too, and it is argued that he is mentally weak too, yet performed better against Alonso than Piquet has ever done. Yoong didn't get the same parts as Webber either at Minardi, but no-one calls for his comeback. Some suggest NP might be better in "other circumstances", but I suspect without any testing and in #2 role Piquet won't flourish in a high-pressure environment like Ferrari. A sensitive driver like him needs everything to be 'perfect', not to get thrown in without any preparation.

In Bourdais' case I'm not sure about his ability to adapt efficiently and he seems too capricious.

Besides Sato someone like Davidson or Liuzzi would sound fine to me. Sato can be very quick on his day, shame that he ruined his career with stupid mistakes at BAR. If his Super Aguri experience is anything to go by, he has probably matured. And there hasn't been an alesiesque half-mad driver for some time at Ferrari either - he would IMO nicely fit with the Ferrari image.

Davidson - may not be the best driver in the world, but quite reliable and I reckon a good team-worker. And the Super Aguri driver pairing from 07-08 certainly did a respectable job IMO, showing that they can cope with difficult conditions. Liuzzi probably may be more error-prone than Davidson, but can put in nice drives too. While one might say that these drivers are inconsistent, then I'm afraid the likes of Gene or Badoer or even Piquet will be 'consistently slow', so "inconsistency", which includes some good performances, is preferred.

If Ant or Liuzzi got the Ferrari drive, their career could get rejuvenated pretty much the same way like Salo's career did back in 1999.

Piquet and Bourdais aren't as bad as Yoong, even though Yoong hasn't been as bad recently, if that makes sense.

If I were Ferrari I'd still prefer to have Schumacher. The Fisichella thing would be good, but in my mind it's more likely that Liuzzi will replace Sutil and not Fisi, so that wouldn't work.

Badoer - well he knows the team and the car, which helps. How much recent racing he's done I'm not sure, but I'd like to see him have a go.

Gene - he's more likely, and IMO did a very good job when he filled in beforehand.

An italian like Liuzzi would go down very well, and Sato needs a chance to show everyone what he can do.

Dave B
28th July 2009, 09:28
LdM's words leave little to hope to Badoer and Gene:

If they were replacing him with the designated 3rd driver there wouldn't be any need to 'make suggestions how to substitute the Brazilian driver until he returns'.
Well for starters they've got two contracted drivers on offer. That alone means they have a decision to make. LdM's words sound entirely reasonable, he can hardly be expected to rush a big decision like that.


What would MS need a manager after he retired?!
To handle his non-racing committments? He was on Top Gear a few weeks ago, for example, and I expect he makes media and PR appearances all over the place. Whatever, he's chosen to keep Weber as his manager.

ArrowsFA1
28th July 2009, 09:56
Not on the Red Bull scale, but didn't Ferrari set up a young driver scheme a year or so ago? Did anything come of that and if so would any of their young drivers be able to step in?

I don't see Badoer or Gene getting the drive, and I'd be very surprised to see MS back racing. Everything he's said since retiring points to the fact that it's not something he wants to do.

Alonso is a possible, with some very big 'ifs'. If Felipe is out for the rest of the season, which seems probable, and if Alonso has signed for Ferrari beginning in 2010, and if Renault lose their appeal against their suspension then it kind of makes sense, although Renault may have something to say about it.

Mark
28th July 2009, 09:58
The only way I see Alonso driving for Ferrari in 2009 is if he's going to drive for the rest of the season and in 2010.

Even then I'd still put it in the 'extremely unlikely' pile.

jens
28th July 2009, 10:01
Piquet and Bourdais aren't as bad as Yoong, even though Yoong hasn't been as bad recently, if that makes sense.


I agree Piquet & Bourdais aren't as bad as Yoong. ;) Just brought as an example that car deficiencies can't be often brought as an excuse for underperformance.

CNR
28th July 2009, 10:40
'Ferrari open to Schumacher return'
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5457068,00.html


According to The Times, 'The team have three reserve drivers on their books in addition to Massa's team-mate, Kimi Raikkonen, in Luca Badoer, Marc Gené and Schumacher, the seven-times world champion.

leopard
28th July 2009, 11:02
I agree Piquet & Bourdais aren't as bad as Yoong. ;) Just brought as an example that car deficiencies can't be often brought as an excuse for underperformance.
Not so sure until we know them racing together on the same car. Obviously Alex Yoong has enough knowledge about motorsport besides of his commercial look, he becomes regular guest speaker and commentator on several TV networks. :)

ArrowsFA1
28th July 2009, 11:08
'Ferrari open to Schumacher return'
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5457068,00.html
I do love the way these stories are created :laugh:

ioan
28th July 2009, 11:59
I do love the way these stories are created :laugh:

Yep, just a sensationalist article.

They talk about imminent decisions about if he can or can't come back next season, when Felipe only went through brain surgery 3 days ago!
I hate stupid journos and sadly motorsport is full of them.

Valve Bounce
28th July 2009, 12:24
Not on the Red Bull scale, but didn't Ferrari set up a young driver scheme a year or so ago? Did anything come of that and if so would any of their young drivers be able to step in?

I don't see Badoer or Gene getting the drive, and I'd be very surprised to see MS back racing. Everything he's said since retiring points to the fact that it's not something he wants to do.

Alonso is a possible, with some very big 'ifs'. If Felipe is out for the rest of the season, which seems probable, and if Alonso has signed for Ferrari beginning in 2010, and if Renault lose their appeal against their suspension then it kind of makes sense, although Renault may have something to say about it.

If spelt backwards is F1. Yours is the most compelling case.

Valve Bounce
28th July 2009, 12:26
I do love the way these stories are created :laugh:

Yeah! I wonder whether News of the World contributed to it.

christophulus
28th July 2009, 12:34
The only way I see Alonso driving for Ferrari in 2009 is if he's going to drive for the rest of the season and in 2010.

Even then I'd still put it in the 'extremely unlikely' pile.

Even if that was true I seriously doubt Renault would release him from his contract early.

Plus he'd probably be in breach of the contracts he has with sponsors at Renault, and it's not feasible for just one race as he'd hardly be popular back at Renault from Spa onwards, unless he brought some Ferrari data with him :p

Dave B
28th July 2009, 12:37
Yeah! I wonder whether News of the World contributed to it.
They wouldn't care who drove so long as she had big tits. :p

ioan
28th July 2009, 12:49
Even if that was true I seriously doubt Renault would release him from his contract early.

What if Renault not being able to race in Valencia is a breach of contract and he can walk out of Renault as a consequence?

Still I'll rather have MS back in the Ferrari for a couple races.

woody2goody
28th July 2009, 12:54
What if Renault not being able to race in Valencia is a breach of contract and he can walk out of Renault as a consequence?

Still I'll rather have MS back in the Ferrari for a couple races.

Then he should do it.

I'd rather see Schumacher in a Ferrari, but some of the other options aren't too bad such as Coulthard and Bourdais.

ioan
28th July 2009, 12:56
Then he should do it.

I'd rather see Schumacher in a Ferrari, but some of the other options aren't too bad such as Coulthard and Bourdais.

I'll take Piquet and Sato over DC and Bourdais, who are both slow and well slow.
Now that I think about it I'll even take Gene over DC and Bourdais.

christophulus
28th July 2009, 12:59
What if Renault not being able to race in Valencia is a breach of contract and he can walk out of Renault as a consequence?

Still I'll rather have MS back in the Ferrari for a couple races.

If that's the case then fair enough, but also bear in mind that as far as we know, Massa and Raikkonen are contracted to be Ferrari drivers next year. So if Alonso finishes '09 for Ferrari, where's he off to in 2010? Don't think Renault would have him back for a third time.

I'm putting my money on Gene to take the seat, although Bourdais is possible given he has the same manager as Massa.

ArrowsFA1
28th July 2009, 13:17
...Bourdais is possible given he has the same manager as Massa.
Good point.

electron
28th July 2009, 13:33
Schu won't do it:

In a BUNTE inteview in Germany he says: "There has been no talks as my decission stands"

28th July 2009, 13:36
Alonso is a possible, with some very big 'ifs'. If Felipe is out for the rest of the season, which seems probable, and if Alonso has signed for Ferrari beginning in 2010, and if Renault lose their appeal against their suspension then it kind of makes sense, although Renault may have something to say about it.

Won't happen.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that it would fit right in with my 'Angelina Jolie Formula'......which is this....I'd love it, it would be fecking brilliant, but won't happen.

BTCC2
28th July 2009, 13:47
Well well well....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8172310.stm

Dave B
28th July 2009, 14:20
Well well well....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8172310.stm
A "never say never" quote which will now be blown out of all proportion.

Valve Bounce
28th July 2009, 14:27
A "never say never" quote which will now be blown out of all proportion.

My money is on SchM. I can't see the sense or any positive result for Ferrari from anyone else. Just SchM's presence in the team will give them great confidence, and they will win races again.

Remember! You heard it from me.

ioan
28th July 2009, 15:08
although Bourdais is possible given he has the same manager as Massa.

Well, that means nothing. They need a fast driver not one that will make Nicholas Todt richer.

christophulus
28th July 2009, 15:34
Schumacher doesn't make sense. He's hardly unfit but I doubt he's in as good shape as he was when he retired (he's 40 after all) and hasn't raced in three years.

More to the point, his superlicence has expired (they're valid for a year), so it's going to be tough to get a new one issued given that he hasn't been racing and isn't an official reserve driver. There is a loophole though, in classic FIA fashion:



i) the driver is party to an agreement with a team entered in the FIA
Formula One World Championship to race a Formula One car in
the Championship in the year of application as first, second or
reserve driver,

...

and: (exceptionally), has a record of results which is judged
sufficient, unanimously, by the Bureau of the Formula One
Commission and has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula
One car at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days,
certified by the ASN of the country in which the test took place.


http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1797101136__Appendix_L_a.pdf

ioan
28th July 2009, 15:39
Schumacher doesn't make sense. He's hardly unfit but I doubt he's in as good shape as he was when he retired (he's 40 after all) and hasn't raced in three years.

More to the point, his superlicence has expired (they're valid for a year), so it's going to be tough to get a new one issued given that he hasn't been racing and isn't an official reserve driver. Rules are rules:

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1797101136__Appendix_L_a.pdf

He did race, even if not in F1, and he also tested last season in the 2008 Ferrari.
He'll get a superlicence before he even finishes asking for one.

If Mansell got one when he came back than MS will get one now.

Looking at the rules it looks to me that his record should be good enough to get one, what do you think?!
And he also did more than 300 kms in a F1 car I believe. :p :

christophulus
28th July 2009, 15:45
He did race, even if not in F1, and he also tested last season in the 2008 Ferrari.
He'll get a superlicence before he even finishes asking for one.

If Mansell got one when he came back than MS will get one now.

Looking at the rules it looks to me that his record should be good enough to get one, what do you think?!
And he also did more than 300 kms in a F1 car I believe. :p :

He's not bad but he's no Bourdais :p

Still can't see it, he's too busy filming Top Gear!

ioan
28th July 2009, 16:03
He's not bad but he's no Bourdais :p


It's difficult to be as bad as Bourdais. :D

Sleeper
28th July 2009, 21:57
I'm surprised people are considering Badoer, the man hasnt raced anything for 10 years AFAIK! I'd feel much safer lineing up next to Alguesuari rather than Badoer as he's done 120 races in the last few years, even if only 1 of them was in F1.

I reckon it'll either be Gene or Bourdais, the one has recent racing experience and is Ferrari contracted, the other has recent experience of racing 09 F1 cars.

Roamy
28th July 2009, 22:45
Bourdais AYSM - Ferrari is not in the habit of hiring the slowest guy on the grid!!

woody2goody
29th July 2009, 02:42
It's a win win for Schumacher if he does it. If he does well then great, he has a chance to win again, but if he doesn't, he's been retired for 3 years.

Saint Devote
29th July 2009, 04:15
Maybe Ferrari will do a similar thing to what they did after the death of Gilles Villeneuve and then Didier Pironi's crash at Hockenheim.

Initially enter only Kimi - as they did Pironi - and then from Spa onwards add Jacques Villeneuve as they did Mario Andretti.

JV is after all the son of Gilles and with no championship possible it would be immensely popular amongst the tifosi, especially at Monza.

Saint Devote
29th July 2009, 04:23
Much of the FIA rules are a load of political garbage because they do not promote the sport.

A person like Schumacher could be out of a car for ten years and still be quicker than 80% of the current grid!

Garry Walker
29th July 2009, 09:32
I have heard it will be Fisichella.

ArrowsFA1
29th July 2009, 09:40
I have heard it will be Fisichella.
Interesting :crazy: A swansong at Ferrari for Fisico with Liuzzi slotting in at Force India?

DexDexter
29th July 2009, 09:46
Interesting :crazy: A swansong at Ferrari for Fisico with Liuzzi slotting in at Force India?

Would make sense, Fisi's got plenty of experience and has driven all year and not too badly at all. Come to think of it, he's probably the best driver available. (I'm not taking Schumi, Alonso etc. into consideration).

ioan
29th July 2009, 10:37
Maybe Ferrari will do a similar thing to what they did after the death of Gilles Villeneuve and then Didier Pironi's crash at Hockenheim.

No one died.

555-04Q2
29th July 2009, 16:48
I have heard it will be Fisichella.

That would be...crappy :down:

Sonic
29th July 2009, 17:01
That would be...crappy :down:

Aye. He's had his chance in some mega competitve machines over the years.

woody2goody
29th July 2009, 18:11
Aye. He's had his chance in some mega competitve machines over the years.

I count two, 2005 and 06.

Ferrari should have taken him in 2000, and they should do now if they get a chance.

Sonic
29th July 2009, 18:21
I count two, 2005 and 06.

Ferrari should have taken him in 2000, and they should do now if they get a chance.

I know you're a big Fissi fan Woody but........he was blown to the weeds in those seasons. I agree, back in 2000 (when Fissi was at his peak) had he gone to Ferrari we'd be having a very different conversation. But now he's past his best and IMHO Ferrari should take this opportunity to test out the next generation rather than hark back to drivers who have had their shot at fame and glory.

29th July 2009, 18:28
Fisi is an easy fit.....easy in that he'll be popular because he's Italian, but at the same time is obviously not a full-time or future prospect for a Ferrari drive so is easy to replace/drop/release without the Italian press kicking up a stink about it.

It's not exactly exciting, but then short-term substitute drivers rarely are.

ioan
29th July 2009, 18:51
I know you're a big Fissi fan Woody but........he was blown to the weeds in those seasons. I agree, back in 2000 (when Fissi was at his peak) had he gone to Ferrari we'd be having a very different conversation.

Because you believe he was better than Rubens?!

Dave B
29th July 2009, 18:52
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77418

:eek:

ioan
29th July 2009, 18:59
Great!
Just what I thought all the way! :)

jens
29th July 2009, 19:38
Hah, now the answer is known.

As for Fisichella, who has been mentioned above, then he wouldn't have really been a worse choice - more likely better - than the others mentioned here (Bourdais, Piquet, Sato, Villeneuve, Gene, etc), so there would have been nothing "crappy" (like one said) about it if other similar or inferior drivers would have been considered.

But oh well, doesn't matter any more - the answer is now clear anyway. :)

ioan
29th July 2009, 19:41
They couldn't have found someone better to replace a driver like Felipe!

woody2goody
29th July 2009, 22:42
Because you believe he was better than Rubens?!

At the time he probably was. Now they're about equal.

Like you said though, there's nobody better to fill in for Felipe than Michael is.

woody2goody
29th July 2009, 22:45
I know you're a big Fissi fan Woody but........he was blown to the weeds in those seasons. I agree, back in 2000 (when Fissi was at his peak) had he gone to Ferrari we'd be having a very different conversation. But now he's past his best and IMHO Ferrari should take this opportunity to test out the next generation rather than hark back to drivers who have had their shot at fame and glory.

Fisi had his shots in 2005 and 06 and he blew it.

Although I feel better now because he did much better against Alonso than anybody else apart from Trulli. Piquet's (non) performance has sort of vindicated Fisi, for which I'm happy about.

I'm just glad that people have been noticing his good driving this year. The fact that we even discussed him as a possible Ferrari driver is a far cry from what it would have been had we been talking about it 12 months ago.

Storm
30th July 2009, 08:55
Amazing that Michael has agreed to come back, is this for just this race or teh rest of the season though. As talented though as he is, I think it will be a bit tougher for him than expected to race after this gap.

I only thought of maybe a wild swoop for Alonso as its his home race and he won't be racing there.

But MS back for a short stint could be great to put some energy back in F1 which has only seen crappy politics and pull-outs this year (stupid BMW).

leopard
30th July 2009, 09:22
Massa said the old man races only if they young man doesn't race. ;)

Mark
30th July 2009, 09:29
Closing as we have another Schumacher returns thread.