Markko Martin 2007 Mitsubishi drive

[StevoEvo]

Can anybody translate these reports, sounds like a deal is done with David Senior co driving for 12 rounds in 2007
And also seen Henning Solbergs name mentioned to Mitsubishi??? interesting :eek:

http://auto.gazeta.pl/auto/1,48316,3759639.html

http://rally.ee/?a=a009&b=5197

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/1441164,14,1,1,,item.html

[StevoEvo]

You've all prob seen this test vid released recently, but why is it plated as a 53?
I wonder if that's Markko behind the wheel lol

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8228a961-b8eb-4d76-a880-987f01647d03.htm

[bennizw]

I mentioned the same as you've just said in the "WRC 2007" thread.

[bennizw]

At the same time, it doesn't seem as so it was Markko driving the car. It doesn't fit his driving style, the way he's entering and taking the hairpins..

[Brother John]

At the same time, it doesn't seem as so it was Markko driving the car. It doesn't fit his driving style, the way he's entering and taking the hairpins..


According to me it is Finnish style! :D :up:

[Gard]

My polish friend say it means that Henning turned down an offer to team up with
Mitsu and Markko.

[StevoEvo]

True seems like a bit of Galli or Lampi lol
This is Martin's style :D :D :D

http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/wrc/video/xn840_ford-focus-wrc

http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/wrc/video/x2gda_marko-martin-rac-2004

[EuroTroll]

http://rally.ee/?a=a009&b=5197

"Unconfirmed reports say... It is not out of the question that... Probably with Mitsubishi... Urmo Aava would like it... etc." Just speculation. ;) David Senior is mentioned because he was his co-driver in Ireland.

[J4MIE]

I hope the rumours are true :up:

[StevoEvo]

Hell Yea............
Martin on full song is a match for Loeb and Gronholm...
Just hope his confidence comes back quickly and he struts his stuff..
The man must be good, being 1 of only 3 non scandinavians to win in Finland. :D

[pino]

I really hope this news will soon be confirmed, Go Martin :up:

[Tom206wrc]

"Unconfirmed reports say... It is not out of the question that... Probably with Mitsubishi... Urmo Aava would like it... etc." Just speculation. ;) David Senior is mentioned because he was his co-driver in Ireland.


What's the story about Aava ?? :s

Won't he drive a whale or a Xsara next year :confused:


Anyway, good news for Markko Märtin :up:

[N.O.T]

Good to see Markko back...hope he manages to find his way to the top once more.

[Daniel]

Good to see Markko back...hope he manages to find his way to the top once more.
I somehow doubt he will though.

[Tomi]

will be interesting to see how he manage, wonder why they hold back the official announsment, or maybe the other driver try still to find a budget.

[Magnus]

It would be very good for the championship if Markko returns; he has a natural speed which may pose a threat to Bosse and Loeb. Solberg has it as well though; hope Markko will have a car lives upp to his abilities behind the wheel.

[A.F.F.]

There goes the neighborhood next august ;)

[EuroTroll]

What's the story about Aava ?? :s

Won't he drive a whale or a Xsara next year :confused:

Yes he will, and it's still undecided. Aava just said he'd like it Märtin came back. :\

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Markko is a driver that this at the level of the big ones ... it is Marcus, Sebastien, Petter and Markko and later.... the rest....(Colin is a myth)

[COD]

My polish friend say it means that Henning turned down an offer to team up with
Mitsu and Markko.


Probably because he can't evevn match he speed of Stohl, it would kill his reputation to be in the same team with top class driver like Markko

[teufel]

Probably because he can't evevn match he speed of Stohl, it would kill his reputation to be in the same team with top class driver like Markko

:D :D :D

[star]

Agree that Markko is one of the top drivers, lets hope that 'if' he does return he can prove his pace. The mitsubishi hasn't got the best reputation! Still think its all a rumour though.... ;)

[Tomi]

Agree that Markko is one of the top drivers, lets hope that 'if' he does return he can prove his pace. The mitsubishi hasn't got the best reputation! Still think its all a rumour though.... ;)

I belive its going to be quite competitive, it was not so bad in sweeden, and after that they have done a lot of work, maybe not a absolute top car, but hopefully on par with subaru.

[bennizw]

If the Subaru isn't improved drastically for next season, any car can beat them, meaning the Mitsubishi being one of them ;)

[Tomi]

If the Subaru isn't improved drastically for next season, any car can beat them, meaning the Mitsubishi being one of them ;)
I hope they dont skip the carbon fiber handbrake anyway :)

[Gard]

Probably because he can't evevn match he speed of Stohl, it would kill his reputation to be in the same team with top class driver like Markko

hear hear, who let you out of the aquarium?
:D

[Sleeper]

Autosport were reporting last weak that he had turned down the Mitsubishi drive. Martin has made no secret of the fact that he doesnt like the WRC at the moment. From the quotes of his that I have read he seems to believe that this year WRC became a sport for ametures as only 4-5 drives are actually paid.

[Daniel]

Autosport were reporting last weak that he had turned down the Mitsubishi drive. Martin has made no secret of the fact that he doesnt like the WRC at the moment. From the quotes of his that I have read he seems to believe that this year WRC became a sport for ametures as only 4-5 drives are actually paid.
Very silly comments from Markko I feel. Rallying has always changed since it started with near standard road cars 50 ish years ago. If Markko was still in the WRC I don't think he'd be ****ting on the sport that made him who he is :down:

[EuroTroll]

Very silly comments from Markko I feel. Rallying has always changed since it started with near standard road cars 50 ish years ago. If Markko was still in the WRC I don't think he'd be ****ting on the sport that made him who he is :down:

Märtin has been vocally critical of the WRC for a long time, starting when gravel crews were banned and super-rally was introduced. He was still driving then, remember? :\

Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade (or are you under the impression that these are glory days for the WRC?), but I find it more than a little strange that he should now want to come back after all the stuff he's been saying for the past year. :\ If, indeed, he does.

[Daniel]

Märtin has been vocally critical of the WRC for a long time, starting when gravel crews were banned and super-rally was introduced. He was still driving then, remember? :\

Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade (or are you under the impression that these are glory days for the WRC?), but I find it more than a little strange that he should now want to come back after all the stuff he's been saying for the past year. :\ If, indeed, he does.
Rallying has not changed that much in the last year. If Markko had such a big problem with rallying at the time he should have taken up Morris dancing or something. Perhaps that's more his thing. Markko is probably just angry because he's on the outside looking in now.

[EuroTroll]

Rallying has not changed that much in the last year. If Markko had such a big problem with rallying at the time he should have taken up Morris dancing or something. Perhaps that's more his thing. Markko is probably just angry because he's on the outside looking in now.

What you say makes no sense. He could have driven in 2006 and he can drive in 2007 if he wants to. It's not like he was kicked out and he can't come back. And is it really so wrong to try to prevent stupid decisions ruining the thing you love? What do you call a broken spade, Daniel? A wonderful earth removal system that is undergoing changes? :rolleyes:

[Sleeper]

The impression that I got from Martin's comments is that he doesnt want to return untill the strength in depth of the WRC field improves a bit. Personnally I think all we need is a couple more well supported teams like Bozian (OMV) and First Motorsport ( I think thats the team that ran Duval Skoda this year) and few extra decent cars made available to the teams.

[StevoEvo]

What you say makes no sense. He could have driven in 2006 and he can drive in 2007 if he wants to. It's not like he was kicked out and he can't come back. And is it really so wrong to try to prevent stupid decisions ruining the thing you love? What do you call a broken spade, Daniel? A wonderful earth removal system that is undergoing changes? :rolleyes:

I agree, Markko is the type of driver to voice his opinions and be heard, if you don't say what you think, then nobody hears you and everybody involved thinks all is well and good, so nothing gets sorted. Good for him I say!
Teams and organisers seem to forget it's the drivers who take the risks, and it should be the drivers who have more say in what rules get thrown at them by somebody who thinks he knows everything, and thinks it'll be a good idea to do this and that without talking in depth with the people involved, who it effects the most.
And personally I would say Martin would get a drive in most teams, as they know how quick he can be on every surface. The only thing that's preventing this is the hanging question they all want to know "Is he confident?" after that dreadfull accident last year. Well time will tell, and I for one want to thank Mitsubishi, for having faith and giving him a drive(if it's true)!!! I'm guessing he won't have any problems securing a deal for 2008......... RESPECT........ ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Some also have said Märtin already lost a bit confidence two years ago after his accident in Argentina when he rolled the Focus and had problems in his eyes... :confused:

[StevoEvo]

Yea true.......
He's had a year out now and has got to be missing competing in the WRC, he's tried circuit and did'nt get the buzz he gets in rallying. I think he's realised where he belongs, and the rally desire is burning deep in his belly.
Give him time, and he'll be mixing it at the sharp end again..........
GO MARTIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

[grugsticles]

2008..... hmmm... Atkinson out of contract..... Subaru return for Martin????

On the topic of voicing opinions, IMO thats what the championship needs but there need to be the perople to listen and act on what the drivers/teams have to say.
Martin's point on the championship becoming amature-ish is true, but in a way thats the way rallying started and I think it should stay that way. Perhaps Marco needs to realise that and maybe then he wont poo-poo an offer such as the one Mitsubishi apparantly offered.

[StevoEvo]

[quote="grugsticles"]2008..... hmmm... Atkinson out of contract..... Subaru return for Martin????

I sincerly hope so....... :)

[Daniel]

2008..... hmmm... Atkinson out of contract..... Subaru return for Martin????

I sincerly hope so....... :)
Well as long as Chris is bringing money for testing I can't see how they'll dump him to bring in a driver who wants to be paid.

[A.F.F.]

Also, isn't Atkinson very important driver for Subaru, just in those locations where they sell the cars most. ?

[StevoEvo]

That's the problem with Rallying these days, It's all about money money money!!!!
You could have a really fast, exiting, championship competing driver wanting a good salary......
OR
A reasonable driver with plenty of financial backing, who will never win a championship.......
Tough call>>>>>>>
1 of each i suppose.

[Daniel]

That's the problem with Rallying these days, It's all about money money money!!!!
You could have a really fast, exiting, championship competing driver wanting a good salary......
OR
A reasonable driver with plenty of financial backing, who will never win a championship.......
Tough call>>>>>>>
1 of each i suppose.
Well as the championship is no longer as popular as it used to be it has to be about money to survive. Only Citroen and Ford have the power to pay for two drivers.

[cyd]

I haven't checked the forum for a couple days and I'm surprised this is still a "live" topic. Actually, I'm thrilled. Even if it is just a rumor, it's a nice one. I'd love to see Markko back, and after reading the article in last week's Autosport about him driving a Quattro, Lancia and Focus 2003 WRC, he sounds ready. Wish he had a website.....

[StevoEvo]

Speaking of Quattro cyd, now that Skoda going S2000 and Seat are long gone, would'nt it be nice to see a Audi A3 WRC.
Before I get lynched lol IT WAS ONLY A FANTASY PMSL!!!!

[Sleeper]

I think that Gardemeister is most likely to get hold of that second Mitsubishi seat, and doesnt Martin have his own Group N team to run in Estonia?

[expat1]

...and doesnt Martin have his own Group N team to run in Estonia?


He has, but I wouldn´t say that´s a full time job. (http://www.mm-motorsport.ee/rallyteam)

I´m wondering why there is such a hype, all this "90% not but 10% maybe" talk of Mr. Turner when asked about the comeback to WRC... if it was sure that he wouldn´t drive next year he could have said it or am I too naive...probably...

I hope that where is smoke is fire...on the other hand I´m wondering if I just believe and hear what I want to...

[Donney]

I understand the hype we are short of good drivers and a good one coming back is always great news. Just remember all the excitement about McRae or Sainz replacing drivers and we know they are old and not as motivated as before.

[expat1]

:) Okay, I just don´t believe he´s really coming back I think...

Ah I don´t know how to say it properly...with hype I meant the talks of some homepages....I think for a properly retired driver Mr M is still too involved and is thinking too much about WRC....but what do I know

I absolutely understand the fans hype about the slightest possibility of a comeback, I´m one of the first to dig out my Estonian flag, buy an air horn and train my voice to scream "Markko" as loud as possible ;) :D

[EuroTroll]

I understand the hype we are short of good drivers and a good one coming back is always great news. Just remember all the excitement about McRae or Sainz replacing drivers and we know they are old and not as motivated as before.

Märtin's 31. The retirement home could still wait, in theory. :)

[GunsofNavarone]

I understand the hype we are short of good drivers and a good one coming back is always great news. Just remember all the excitement about McRae or Sainz replacing drivers and we know they are old and not as motivated as before.

If the money situation was better, some of these "older" drivers would be extremely motivated to come back.

[cyd]

Speaking of Quattro cyd, now that Skoda going S2000 and Seat are long gone, would'nt it be nice to see a Audi A3 WRC.
Before I get lynched lol IT WAS ONLY A FANTASY PMSL!!!!

The more manufacturers, the merrier! Motorsports tend to get a bit sterile if there's not enough competition. I'd love to see other cars kicking Citroen butt besides the Focus.

[Donney]

Märtin's 31. The retirement home could still wait, in theory. :)

Exactly!!!

[A.F.F.]

Märtin's 31. The retirement home could still wait, in theory. :)

But not for long. I'm 34 and spent last two years in retirement home. It's not that bad really.

[StevoEvo]

I'm surprised these pics did'nt spark rumours lol

http://www.motorsport.ee/vaata.php?id=35781&g=510&day=

http://www.motorsport.ee/vaata.php?id=35782&g=510&day=

[StevoEvo]

Märtin's 31. The retirement home could still wait, in theory. :)

Agreed, I think Martin's got unfinished buisness in the WRC and still has alot to prove, i.e. gunning for a maiden title, or is that way to optomistic!

[EuroTroll]

Agreed, I think Martin's got unfinished buisness in the WRC and still has alot to prove, i.e. gunning for a maiden title, or is that way to optomistic!

Well... Before gunning for the title, he should gun for not being 0.5 sec/km slower than Grönholm (on a good day). :p :

But yes - he's certainly a very talented driver, and if he...
- comes back to the WRC
- finds a car that he likes
- gets his confidence back
- grows a little more as a driver
...then perhaps a title would someday indeed be possible, if Loeb was having a mediocre year. It's certainly worth a try, isn't it? :up:

But just by coming back to the WRC he'd improve the average quality of the driver line-up very considerably IMO.

[Tom206wrc]

I think that Gardemeister is most likely to get hold of that second Mitsubishi seat, and doesnt Martin have his own Group N team to run in Estonia?


I thought Gardemeister was said going to Suzuki rather :confused:

[cut the b.s.]

Well... Before gunning for the title, he should gun for not being 0.5 sec/km slower than Grönholm (on a good day). :p :

But yes - he's certainly a very talented driver, and if he...
- comes back to the WRC
- finds a car that he likes
- gets his confidence back
- grows a little more as a driver
...then perhaps a title would someday indeed be possible, if Loeb was having a mediocre year. It's certainly worth a try, isn't it? :up:

But just by coming back to the WRC he'd improve the average quality of the driver line-up very considerably IMO.



Nice to see some reality on this thread, Martin is a decent driver, but he is is very unlikely to get back to top speed again, over a year out of WRC, and when in the car this year he didnt look like 'it' was still there for him.
For people who talk of him going for a title, he has had a chance, but he didnt take them, in 03 he had the car for the job


All in all, far too many 'ifs' for a team to chance IMHO

[EuroTroll]

For people who talk of him going for a title, he has had a chance, but he didnt take them, in 03 he had the car for the job

Thank you for the compliment, but I think you're not being fair about 2003. The Focus RS03 (introduced in New Zealand) was certainly the fastest car, but Märtin's cars were hugely unreliable throughout the season. In the end, he scored the most special stage wins, but didn't come close to winning the Championship.

Don't forget that most people were expecting the 2004 Championship to be decided between Märtin and Loeb, and Märtin to eventually become a multiple world champion, based on the performances of the previous year. In 2003, Markko was truly on fire and one with the (very fast) car. Ah, happy days... :bandit:

[EuroTroll]

Martin is a decent driver, but he is is very unlikely to get back to top speed again, over a year out of WRC, and when in the car this year he didnt look like 'it' was still there for him.

All in all, far too many 'ifs' for a team to chance IMHO

I see your point, but I don't necessarily agree that it is very unlikely for him to get back to his former speed, if he's been able to sort out the psychological barriers that must have existed, and if he truly commits himself with a positive attitude. The basic ability, the talent should still be there, shouldn't it?

[A.F.F.]

Plus the car fits to him and he feels happy and confident about it.

Markko is one of the Big Boys.

[Donney]

I guess the main problem would be in the kind of car and deal he lands on.

[Brother John]

IF...IF...IF...IF...IF...IF...Further no more comment!!!!


Well... Before gunning for the title, he should gun for not being 0.5 sec/km slower than Grönholm (on a good day). :p :

But yes - he's certainly a very talented driver, and if he...
- comes back to the WRC
- finds a car that he likes
- gets his confidence back
- grows a little more as a driver
...then perhaps a title would someday indeed be possible, if Loeb was having a mediocre year. It's certainly worth a try, isn't it? :up:

But just by coming back to the WRC he'd improve the average quality of the driver line-up very considerably IMO.

[EuroTroll]

IF...IF...IF...IF...IF...IF...Further no more comment!!!!

That wouldn't be much of a post though, would it. :)

[L5->R5/CR]

Plus the car fits to him and he feels happy and confident about it.

Markko is one of the Big Boys.


Don't you mean was? He was off the pace on 2005 until the tragic WRGB.

You can say it was the car, you can say it was the team, you can say a lot of things. But they all revolve around him not being contender for rally victory.

I was/am a Markko fan. But to put him up there with the big 2.5 (Petter needs to wow me again in a Subie to consider him at the top) or even where Mikko is today he needs to show me he still has it. I'd love to see him give it a go in a proper team with a car he likes.

[Koppomsbo]

Probably because he can't evevn match he speed of Stohl, it would kill his reputation to be in the same team with top class driver like Markko

Probably right, and maybe it was cheaper then ford and that means he cant spend the same amount of money :D

[Tom206wrc]

Don't you mean was? He was off the pace on 2005 until the tragic WRGB.

You can say it was the car, you can say it was the team, you can say a lot of things. But they all revolve around him not being contender for rally victory.

I was/am a Markko fan. But to put him up there with the big 2.5 (Petter needs to wow me again in a Subie to consider him at the top) or even where Mikko is today he needs to show me he still has it. I'd love to see him give it a go in a proper team with a car he likes.



Off the pace in 2005 ???? :rolleyes:
By awaiting, he was contender for overall driver championship with the Pirelli whale and collected many podiums and points(he was consistent and reliable) before his tragic accident in RAC !!!!

Easy to say off the pace :rolleyes:

[EuroTroll]

Off the pace in 2005 ???? :rolleyes:
By awaiting, he was contender for overall driver championship with the Pirelli whale and collected many podiums and points(he was consistent and reliable) before his tragic accident in RAC !!!!

Easy to say off the pace :rolleyes:

Oh come on Tom, he was off the pace. ;) L5->R5/CR is completely right IMO.

[L5->R5/CR]

Off the pace in 2005 ???? :rolleyes:
By awaiting, he was contender for overall driver championship with the Pirelli whale and collected many podiums and points(he was consistent and reliable) before his tragic accident in RAC !!!!

Easy to say off the pace :rolleyes:


How many stages did he win?

How many rallies did he win?

He was a "good" number two driver in a team. You know, that guy that is fast enough to be in the points behind the guys battling for the win but never threatens to win an event without retirements?

He was off the "big 3" pace, period.

[Mr Fudd]

He was off the pace because the car didn't work. he spent all year struggling with Peugeot's own dampers , and when he finally got some proper ones on it , he started to fly, and so much so that Marcus wanted to use them too.
There was even a press release about it.

Markko decided wisely that he wasn't about to stick his neck out in a car he didn't like or trust , until he got something he was happy with. I think the two rallies prior to GB , he picked up the pace big style.

[L5->R5/CR]

He was off the pace because the car didn't work. he spent all year struggling with Peugeot's own dampers , and when he finally got some proper ones on it , he started to fly, and so much so that Marcus wanted to use them too.
There was even a press release about it.

Markko decided wisely that he wasn't about to stick his neck out in a car he didn't like or trust , until he got something he was happy with. I think the two rallies prior to GB , he picked up the pace big style.



You guys are making me out to be a Markko basher.

I am just saying his last year of rallying he wasn't on the pace of the "big 3". Put it up to whatever you want but that was how it was.

I want to see him in a car, running at a WRC, to see if he has the pace he showed in 2003/2004.

I'm not saying that he is a bad driver, or that he even isn't a good driver, just that I need to see him show me something to believe that again because the last time he was driving he wasn't on that level.

I would say the same thing about Petter. He needs to get in a car capable of delivering and go out and deliver because for whatever reason he isn't running at that level.

You can't be one of the "big 3" on reputation and past performances; you achieve that status by performing.

[EuroTroll]

I think the two rallies prior to GB , he picked up the pace big style.

Going into the fatal Margam stage, Märtin was in 6th place - 1 min 9.5 sec behind Grönholm in 3rd. Up to then, about 270 km of special stages had been completed, so Märtin had been about 0.25 sec/km slower than Grönholm on average. That was indeed less than on some previous rallies, but if Grönholm's speed is considered "the pace", then Märtin was still most definitely off it. :\

[Mr_xl_Lancia_lx_]

2008 might be interesting...theres a new team coming along.

[A.F.F.]

Both of you are completely right L5->R5/CR and Studi ( nice to see you back on forum btw :wave: )

I just want to give Markko one more chance to prove things otherwise. 307 clearly didn't fit to him. That is strange however since Stohl and Solberg have made the most out with that particular car.

But yes, Markko WAS on of the big boys. Hopefully he'll come back to the gang.

[EuroTroll]

Hello Jani! :wave:

I'd dearly like Markko to have another go as well. It's a great pity that such a promising career ended on such a sad note. And he's still young, and could still do it all.

I think the chance is probably there, though. The question is, will Märtin take it?

[Mr Fudd]

Going into the fatal Margam stage, Märtin was in 6th place - 1 min 9.5 sec behind Grönholm in 3rd. Up to then, about 270 km of special stages had been completed, so Märtin had been about 0.25 sec/km slower than Grönholm on average. That was indeed less than on some previous rallies, but if Grönholm's speed is considered "the pace", then Märtin was still most definitely off it. :\

Its easy to look at times 12 months after the fact and say that, but from what i remember Rally GB was the first time Markko got the car to work how he wanted. It was plain to see Gronholm hated the whale too, for the same reasons as Markko , but he had 12 months longer in the car and had made the best out of it he could , Markko never found a comfort zone with the car , and as such , he struggled . If you look at his times on day 2 , he was on the pace , after losing a lot of time on day one with a few set up issues , and again on day 3 when i believe he had a few problems , but i think that anyone in the service park knew that he was more capeable than the car, and he had made the big break.

From Eurosport website last year.

Markko Martin came to Finland a man in depression. The Peugeot driver has been struggling with the Peugeot 307 WRC all season despite recording three podiums and scoring points on every event, but tide seems to have turned after the Estonian finish what he describes as a miraculous third.

Martin's season is a bit of a paradox as he is not only one of two drivers to have scored points on every round this season, the other being Ford's Toni Gardemeister, but his podium finish in Finland leaves him a respectable fourth in the driver's standings, just seven points adrift of team-mate Marcus Gronholm.

But nothing was going right for Martin. He was openly slated by team-boss Jean-Pierre Nicholas for his half-heartened performance in the Mediterranean, which cost Peugeot the lead in the constructor's championship, and was far from comfortable with his car.

That all changed when Peugeot brought in a new suspension for Martin on his home EOS Rally in Estonia, which he duly won, and came to Finland with a rare smile that confirmed that he was ready to fight for the top positions on merit rather than through other's misfortune.

"I think to finish third here is a miracle after the last couple of rallies," Martin said. "It doesn't feel as good as winning but at the same time it feels like we have made a fantastic rally and thanks to the team who let me use different dampers and that really made me drive the way I like.

"That really helped me achieve third place and we are really working to go in the same direction and even better in the future", he added. "So far our progress has been steady pace so it will be nice to keep doing what we have done this weekend"

Bear in mind that Rally GB was the next gravel event after that , i think you do a great driver a disservice.

I am pretty certain gronholm went with the same dampers as well, and felt them to be night & day better,and his end of season performance was improved because of it.

Its easy to point a finger 12 months after the fact , without the knowledge of what was going on at the time.

You will also notice Mitsubishi improved massively towards the end of 2005 too, for the similar reasons , the drivers didn't suddenly just get better.

[EuroTroll]

The Ohlins dampers certainly made Markko more comfortable with the car, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grönholm used them for the rest of the season. I also believe that Markko is a good car developer, as he knows exactly what he wants from a car.

With or without the better dampers, though - he was still a long way from Grönholm's speed in 2005. (Btw in Rally GB '05, Grönholm was 0.11 sec/km faster on Day 1, and 0.53 sec/km on Day 2). I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept (what to me seems) the bleedin' obvious. It doesn't necessarily mean that Märtin can't compete with Grönholm on equal terms. It means that Märtin couldn't compete with Grönholm in the Peugeot 307! (And I think it also means that Grönholm is much better at driving a car he doesn't like.)

Put them both in an easy car, and perhaps they're equal! That's what this thread is about. It's about the hope that Märtin can come back to the WRC, have a car that he likes, and be a really top driver once again.

There's nothing to be gained from saying black is white. It'll only make people dislike you. And the driver you support.

[Tomi]

The Ohlins dampers certainly made Markko more comfortable with the car, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grönholm used them for the rest of the season. I also believe that Markko is a good car developer, as he knows exactly what he wants from a car.

With or without the better dampers, though - he was still a long way from Grönholm's speed in 2005. (Btw in Rally GB '05, Grönholm was 0.11 sec/km faster on Day 1, and 0.53 sec/km on Day 2). I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept (what to me seems) the bleedin' obvious. It doesn't necessarily mean that Märtin can't compete with Grönholm on equal terms. It means that Märtin couldn't compete with Grönholm in the Peugeot 307! (And I think it also means that Grönholm is much better at driving a car he doesn't like.)

Put them both in an easy car, and perhaps they are equal! That's what this thread is about. It's about the hope that Märtin can come back to the WRC, have a car that he likes, and be a really top driver once again.

There's nothing to be gained from saying black is white. It'll only make people dislike you. And the driver you support.

Agree, also i think Markko made some comments about not changing style so it suites to the car, another thing is many people on the forum seem to think that it takes years to adapt to a new car, I dont really belive that for an excuse, some drivers win right out after change, they are just more of a driver.

[Mr Fudd]

The Ohlins dampers certainly made Markko more comfortable with the car, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grönholm used them for the rest of the season. I also believe that Markko is a good car developer, as he knows exactly what he wants from a car.

With or without the better dampers, though - he was still a long way from Grönholm's speed in 2005. (Btw in Rally GB '05, Grönholm was 0.11 sec/km faster on Day 1, and 0.53 sec/km on Day 2). I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept (what to me seems) the bleedin' obvious. It doesn't necessarily mean that Märtin can't compete with Grönholm on equal terms. It means that Märtin couldn't compete with Grönholm in the Peugeot 307! (And I think it also means that Grönholm is much better at driving a car he doesn't like.)

Put them both in an easy car, and perhaps they're equal! That's what this thread is about. It's about the hope that Märtin can come back to the WRC, have a car that he likes, and be a really top driver once again.

There's nothing to be gained from saying black is white. It'll only make people dislike you. And the driver you support.

you can sit there with a calculator all day long and say driver A is faster than driver B , and ignore all the fact behind the numbers. In the quote i used , you will see that Markko thanks Peugeot for 'letting him use' a different damper , which basically his way of saying, ' i told you what the car needed and you couldn't give it to me , so i went out and got it myself', which is what happened . Those in the know , know, and those that don't simply aren't in a position to fully understand why things appear how they do.

I'm not a Markko Martin fan , over any other driver , but whilst it ok to say Petter had a sh1t year cos the Subaru wasn't up to speed , any suggestion that the same applies to Markko is mocked.

the frustrating thing as a driver is to know what the problem is, know how to fix it , but not be 'allowed' to for political reasons.

It strikes me that no driver jumps in a car and goes faster than the guy who got out of it , any more than one goes slower. The car is the limiting factor.

You have a short memory if you cant remember how much Marcus slagged off the 307 in 2004 , and its lack of success against its sister car is surely why it was the choice to be canned at the end of the 2005 season.

[EuroTroll]

you can sit there with a calculator all day long and say driver A is faster than driver B , and ignore all the fact behind the numbers. In the quote i used , you will see that Markko thanks Peugeot for 'letting him use' a different damper , which basically his way of saying, ' i told you what the car needed and you couldn't give it to me , so i went out and got it myself', which is what happened . Those in the know , know, and those that don't simply aren't in a position to fully understand why things appear how they do.

I'm not a Markko Martin fan , over any other driver , but whilst it ok to say Petter had a sh1t year cos the Subaru wasn't up to speed , any suggestion that the same applies to Markko is mocked.

the frustrating thing as a driver is to know what the problem is, know how to fix it , but not be 'allowed' to for political reasons.

[...]

You have a short memory if you cant remember how much Marcus slagged off the 307 in 2004 , and its lack of success against its sister car is surely why it was the choice to be canned at the end of the 2005 season.

I get the feeling that you don't understand what I'm saying.

Yes, the 307 was a difficult car (at least on Pirellis). Yes, Peugeot blocked many of Märtin's initiatives to make the car more driver friendly, thinking the (infamous) Laptop Guys know better. But what you seem to forget is that another driver was considerably faster than Märtin in the same **** car. Therefore the statement "Märtin was off the pace in 2005" seems entirely justified to me, since it implies that Markko was not up to the known best possible speed of the 307. Which is true. (And which isn't true of Solberg in 2006, btw.)

Can we drop this now, please?



It strikes me that no driver jumps in a car and goes faster than the guy who got out of it , any more than one goes slower. The car is the limiting factor.

I didn't quite understand this part. Are you saying that all drivers are equal? :erm:

[Mr Fudd]

I get the feeling that you don't understand what I'm saying.

Yes, the 307 was a difficult car (at least on Pirellis). Yes, Peugeot blocked many of Märtin's initiatives to make the car more driver friendly, thinking the (infamous) Laptop Guys know better. But what you seem to forget is that another driver was considerably faster than Märtin in the same **** car. Therefore the statement "Märtin was off the pace in 2005" seems entirely justified to me, since it implies that Markko was not up to the known best possible speed of the 307. Which is true. (And which isn't true of Solberg in 2006, btw.)

Can we drop this now, please?



I didn't quite understand this part. Are you saying that all drivers are equal? :erm:

No, i'm saying that any reasonable driver can get in a well sorted car, of which there aren't many , and do ok, all else being equal . A year of extra experience is massive when the car was as bad as the 307. Marcus had a shocking 2004 , so by 2005 he was already making do with the best he was allowed , markko was a year behind.

It hasn't taken a year for Marcus to get used to the focus , and by the same token , Hirvonen is much faster now than he was in any other car. Do you suddenly think he has become a better driver, cos i dont , he's just more at home in a well set up car , and as a result is happy to push to the limit.

Your idea of considerably and mine are not the same.

But if you feel that strongly about it, you obviously know think you are in a position to know more than me .

[Simmi]

I got the feeling Martin couldn't be arsed with it when it wasn't going his way which I think didnt do him a lot of favours in the eyes of a lot of people. The same thing happened with Burns when he moved to Peugeot and his driving style completely changed from rally winner to conservative/consistent.

Markko isn't going to show winning pace in a Mitsubishi next year but I think what he needs is a season back in the fray to find himself again and if they bring out a works car in '08 then let him be one of the drivers.

[EuroTroll]

Markko isn't going to show winning pace in a Mitsubishi next year but I think what he needs is a season back in the fray to find himself again and if they bring out a works car in '08 then let him be one of the drivers.

That's also what I see as being the best scenario. Märtin re-finding his feet and helping Mitsubishi develop a good car in 2007, and becoming a serious contender in 2008.

[Tomi]

I got the feeling Martin couldn't be arsed with it when it wasn't going his way which I think didnt do him a lot of favours in the eyes of a lot of people. The same thing happened with Burns when he moved to Peugeot and his driving style completely changed from rally winner to conservative/consistent.

Not really, the different with Markko and Burns is that Burns got everything he asked for, but if a guy is slow what can the team do, nothing much.

[StevoEvo]

That's also what I see as being the best scenario. Märtin re-finding his feet and helping Mitsubishi develop a good car in 2007, and becoming a serious contender in 2008.

I hope so studiose!!!!! ;)
I think pesonaly Martin's career was cut short (as we all know under tragic circumstances) before he had time to reach his personal peak.

When Marcus had his 1st year in the 307 in 2004, he finished 5th in the championship with 54pts behind Markko, who finished 3rd in the Focus with 69pts, and obviously in a better car.

Markko's 1st year in the 307, he even finished ahead of the Xsara of Duval in the championship and scored 53pts to finish 5th, very similar to Gronholms maiden year in the 307 previous... Gronholm however, scored 71pts to finish 3rd, but with Markko missing the final 4 rounds, I would say that is some acheivement by the Estonian and therefore on paper and in all round performance I would never say one is better than the other. Who knows, if that tragic accident did'nt happen and Martin returned to Ford with Gronhlm for the 2006 season, then we would have seen the full picture and only then would be able to judge by comparison..
So let's not dwell on the past guys and look forward to seeing another talented driver in the 2007 line up in hopefully a competitive car.
I wish him all the best for the new season......Go Martin!!!!!

[star]

Still no official announcement..........I guess it was just rumours as before. Its a shame, it would have been great to see another decent driver in the 2007 WRC.

[EuroTroll]

Still no official announcement..........I guess it was just rumours as before. Its a shame, it would have been great to see another decent driver in the 2007 WRC.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mitsubishi will make an announcement of their plans on Friday.

[stmoto]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mitsubishi will make an announcement of their plans on Friday.

its GARDEMEISTER!!!

[EuroTroll]

its GARDEMEISTER!!!

Source?

[jonas_mcrae]

Source?

yeah we need sources pleaseee

[Tom206wrc]

its GARDEMEISTER!!!



Do you mean Gardemeister at Mitsubishi, or that he'll make an announcement on friday ?? :confused:

[StevoEvo]

Also Stohl was mentioned to be having talks with
Mitsubishi in the Autosport mag last week??? :confused:

[stmoto]

Also Stohl was mentioned to be having talks with
Mitsubishi in the Autosport mag last week??? :confused:

heard from a source near team in UK.

[SubaruNorway]

A Norwegian driver who was in a meeting with Mitsubishi in Wales had it confirmed that Märtin is driving 12 events next year.

[J4MIE]

Hope so SUBARUNORWAY1 but I will wait for the announcement... :\

[alleskids]

So , acoourding to 2 reliable sources, Mitsubishi's MT2 will be Toni Gardemeister and Markko Martin ? It would be a smart and competitive team, capeble of challiging the MT2 crown, maybe even beating Subaru, if they are not finding the spirit back.

[StevoEvo]

I've also hard a middle eastern driver, cant remember his name now :( But apparently he's deffo got a drive..
So how many cars are Mitsubishi running next year lol, we got a lot of drivers here now???

[Roy]

So , acoourding to 2 reliable sources, Mitsubishi's MT2 will be Toni Gardemeister and Markko Martin ? It would be a smart and competitive team, capeble of challiging the MT2 crown, maybe even beating Subaru, if they are not finding the spirit back.

Gardemeister is driving a Munchi's Ford WRC 06 in Monte and maybe Norway. The first is confirmed. The last one is how you read this story (4th paragraph).
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=149007&postcount=134

[StevoEvo]

What's happening with Daniel Carlsson next year?
And why did Mitsubishi give him a works drive on the Rally Ireland this year??????
Bit of preperation for Ireland 2007 maybe????? :beer:

[alleskids]

I've also hard a middle eastern driver, cant remember his name now :( But apparently he's deffo got a drive..
So how many cars are Mitsubishi running next year lol, we got a lot of drivers here now???

Khalid Al-Qasimi from Dubau has also been rumoured to drive a MT2 Mitsubishi Lancer.

[bennizw]

A Norwegian driver who was in a meeting with Mitsubishi in Wales had it confirmed that Märtin is driving 12 events next year.

Thank you, that was my news that I have mentioned earlier in the thread and my source :p :

[stmoto]

What's happening with Daniel Carlsson next year?
And why did Mitsubishi give him a works drive on the Rally Ireland this year??????
Bit of preperation for Ireland 2007 maybe????? :beer:

must be preparation for 07. So Gardemeister-Al quassami (not sure of spelling :) )!

What about:

Märtin
Sohlberg
Carlsson
Stohl

All these linked to Mitsubishi...

What are they doing??

[StevoEvo]

Khalid Al-Qasimi from Dubau has also been rumoured to drive a MT2 Mitsubishi Lancer.

Cheers alleskids, that's the geezer lol, It said in Autosport mag that he has been confirmed, but did'nt say how many rounds he'll do!!!

[alleskids]

Gardemeister is driving a Munchi's Ford WRC 06 in Monte and maybe Norway. The first is confirmed. The last one is how you read this story (4th paragraph).
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=149007&postcount=134

If Gardemeister is driving in the Mitsubishi MT2 Lancer, he has to bring sponsormoney, then he will skip the Munchi's seat, for which he also has to bring his own money with hem, to spend it entirely on the Mitsu MT2 assault.

[StevoEvo]

must be preparation for 07. So Gardemeister-Al quassami (not sure of spelling :) )!

What about:

Märtin
Sohlberg
Carlsson
Stohl

All these linked to Mitsubishi...

What are they doing??

Carlsson is a Mitsu man anyway so I'd guess he'll pop up somewhere
Martin apparently has secured a seat...No confirmation tho
Stohl is mentioned to have had talks with Mitsu
Sohberg Strong feeling everywhere he'll be in a focus..

But then again what do we all know :D

[stmoto]

[quote="StevoEvo"]Carlsson is a Mitsu man anyway so I'd guess he'll pop up somewhere
Martin apparently has secured a seat...No confirmation tho
Stohl is mentioned to have had talks with Mitsu
Sohberg Strong feeling everywhere he'll be in a focus.

And Gardemeister??

I meant K.sohlberg :) Not h.sloberg,lol :) , I know wrong spelling...

[StevoEvo]

If Gardemeister is driving in the Mitsubishi MT2 Lancer, he has to bring sponsormoney, then he will skip the Munchi's seat, for which he also has to bring his own money with hem, to spend it entirely on the Mitsu MT2 assault.


Isnt Gardemeister doing some drives with Astra in a Xsara next year too
http://www.crash.net/news_View~t~Astra-plots-more-events-with-Gardemeister-in--07-~cid~4~id~140650.htm

[alleskids]

Maybe they will combine the MT2 assault with other drivers, like the Munchi's team gives the cars/facilities for 6 rounds to Latvalla and Gardemeister, although usually the oilsheiks have plenty of money to buy the whole factory, in stead of just hiring the cars :) .

[StevoEvo]

Roll on Friday. The suspense is too much now :arrows:

[StevoEvo]

So I'm guessing this Markko Martin rumour was a load of Boll Ox :laugh:
Shame...

[Brother John]

:cool: :s mokin: :dozey: I don´t see Estonians on the forum today???!!!!!

[StevoEvo]

:cool: :s mokin: :dozey: I don´t see Estonians on the forum today???!!!!!
Tut Tut :imubash:

[EuroTroll]

As is customary on these occasions, the lynch mob for Bennizw will gather near the Karting Forum and proceed from there to deal out the justice. Shall we make it 21:00 CET? Bring rain coats and your finest satire, sarcasm and ridicule.

Soup and tea afterwards.

[DonJippo]

As is customary on these occasions, the lynch mob for Bennizw will gather near the Karting Forum and proceed from there to deal out the justice. Shall we make it 21:00 CET? Bring rain coats and your finest satire, sarcasm and ridicule.

Soup and tea afterwards.

Count me in :s mash: and I take my tea with milk, please :p

[Daniel]

Do you serve softdrinks? :D

Oh and what biscuits will there be? Ones with cream? Chocolate? Or just dry ones? :mark:

[SubaruNorway]

Hey Bennizw your sources aren't realy reliable

[star]

A Norwegian driver who was in a meeting with Mitsubishi in Wales had it confirmed that Märtin is driving 12 events next year.

As I wrote in another thread....somebody must have mistaken Tony for Markko! Where do these rumours come from?

[DonJippo]

Where do these rumours come from?

Norway :dozey:

[bennizw]

I asked him again today, and he said his mechanic who works for Mitsubishi had said so. But then again, he could've mixed up yes. I don't know :p : I just say as I hear.

[SubaruNorway]

Big news!

I heard that Gigi Galli is doing 16 events in a yellow pirelli sponsored Lancer

[A.F.F.]

I asked him again today, and he said his mechanic who works for Mitsubishi had said so. But then again, he could've mixed up yes. I don't know :p : I just say as I hear.

Yep, I know what you mean. This friend of mine heard from his friend's friend who might be a mechanic this craziest thing the other day. Then again, he might have mixed things :erm:

Maybe, just maybe I better not tell it here then.... ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Big news!

I heard that Gigi Galli is doing 16 events in a yellow pirelli sponsored Lancer




;(
I was really expecting a whale I'm gutted :(

[Captain VXR]

Big news!

I heard that Gigi Galli is doing 16 events in a yellow pirelli sponsored Lancer

Is this a wind up? I hope not as it is good news

[bennizw]

Well, A.F.F, the fact is that I thought it came directly from my source, something it seems it didn't in the end. I apologize. But then again, if Märtin suddenly turns up in a Lancer for 12 events next year, you shall be down on you knees ;)

[star]

Well, A.F.F, the fact is that I thought it came directly from my source, something it seems it didn't in the end. I apologize. But then again, if Märtin suddenly turns up in a Lancer for 12 events next year, you shall be down on you knees ;)


Never will that happen! I think his career is over. He had the chance to come back and turned it down. What is he going to do next year...nothing probably. And then it will be 2 years out of the sport, team managers won't want to take him because he wouldn't have proved that he has still 'got it'. I think we have seen the last of Markko Martin in the WRC. A great shame as I think he has lots of talent and given the right car could easily be up there with Loeb and Gronholm. I guess we shall never know now.

[Tomi]

I think he has lots of talent and given the right car could easily be up there with Loeb and Gronholm.
Yes but with equal car no chance, but it would have been nice to see how well he has recovered from the accident.

[GunsofNavarone]

Yes but with equal car no chance, but it would have been nice to see how well he has recovered from the accident.

He did rather well in Portugal earlier this year, but that was against the local boys. I say he did well, when he obviously retired, but you know what I mean.

[Tomi]

He did rather well in Portugal earlier this year, but that was against the local boys. I say he did well, when he obviously retired, but you know what I mean.

I know yes, but its so difficult to tell without competition, in WRC you can see directly if the guy is on pace, there is always guys with about same level cars.

[Daniel]

Big news!

I heard that Gigi Galli is doing 16 events in a yellow pirelli sponsored Lancer
Hmmm I suspect this is a windup. If Pirelli had that much faith in Gigi they'd have sponsored him for the whole of last year. From what I heard when he was in NZ he had nothing worked out for next year. Pirelli is a big sponsor of his so they wouldn't have suddenly just decided to sponsor him just now.....

[Simmi]

Maybe since they have finally lost Subaru they want to somehow keep their foot in the WRC still? A fast flamboyant and PR friendly driver with Pirelli sprawled all over him and his car may not be such a bad move.

[Daniel]

I think his PR friendliness is limited mainly to this forum. There's such a buzz around him but when you see him at a rally the cheers are no bigger than for anyone else.......

[GigiGalliNo1]

Big news!

I heard that Gigi Galli is doing 16 events in a yellow pirelli sponsored Lancer

Well he does on GiGi's site, have the whole 2007 calendar on his site! :D Oh i cannot wait to hear from him. Shall give him a call haha

[GigiGalliNo1]

and also to confirm

[WRC1]

and also to confirm

i spoke with giovanni (his codriver) on sunday, btw: greetings to everybody here in the forum especially to you mark!! ;o))

he sait they are in talks with many people, but unfortunatly he was very uncertain, especially about monte he said there is something in progress, but it may be too late for the season start....

regards

wrc1

[A.F.F.]

Well, A.F.F, the fact is that I thought it came directly from my source, something it seems it didn't in the end. I apologize. But then again, if Märtin suddenly turns up in a Lancer for 12 events next year, you shall be down on you knees ;)


Apologize accepted. And if it turns out to be true, I'll be on my knees in the middle of Senaatintori yelling, "Markko, kussa sä olet!". We have a deal, right ? :p :

[GigiGalliNo1]

WRC1 did you ask him to email me? If you forgot that's cool. Just wanted to plan something with him. Thanks.

[WRC1]

WRC1 did you ask him to email me? If you forgot that's cool. Just wanted to plan something with him. Thanks.

sure! i told him, he remembered your name and he said ok!

regards

wrc1

[GigiGalliNo1]

many thanks!

[Daniel]

i spoke with giovanni (his codriver) on sunday, btw: greetings to everybody here in the forum especially to you mark!! ;o))

he sait they are in talks with many people, but unfortunatly he was very uncertain, especially about monte he said there is something in progress, but it may be too late for the season start....

regards

wrc1
I thought as much. Perhaps he was just listing all the rallies in the championship? :) Lets just say people..... if Pirelli were going to sponsor him for the whole season they would have already done it and Gigi would be talking about his hopes for next year. My guesss is 3-4 rallies.

[bennizw]

Apologize accepted. And if it turns out to be true, I'll be on my knees in the middle of Senaatintori yelling, "Markko, kussa sä olet!". We have a deal, right ? :p :

Sounds very good, only if I knew what "Markko, kussa sä olet!" means:P

[Kulliracing]

Sounds very good, only if I knew what "Markko, kussa sä olet!" means:P

It's " markko, Missä sä olet!" it means Markko where are you! few years back there was a funny tv clip shown during the Finnish rally that contained that sentence ;)

[Brother John]

Sounds very good, only if I knew what "Markko, kussa sä olet!" means:P

Markko Say goodbaaaaay, :laugh: Just joking bennzw :laugh:

[SubaruNorway]

Is this a wind up? I hope not as it is good news


Gues where i got it from

[bennizw]

It's " markko, Missä sä olet!" it means Markko where are you! few years back there was a funny tv clip shown during the Finnish rally that contained that sentence ;)

Either it was when he won Finland in 2003, or when he won Acropolis.

[DonJippo]

Gues where i got it from

bennizw :confused:

[SubaruNorway]

No, a norwegian troll

[bennizw]

Haha. Not from me this time no. So who is your source then?

[dot-niek]

What about a second Mitsubishi team sponsored by Pirelli. Drivers Galli and Martin?? That would be great!

[SubaruNorway]

Haha. Not from me this time no. So who is your source then?

Just messing with you someone on another thread has heard a rumor about it to so it might be true afteral

[EuroTroll]

What about a second Mitsubishi team sponsored by Pirelli. Drivers Galli and Martin?? That would be great!

Well, what would really be great is Märtin in the Focus RS WRC03 - sponsored by God - and everyone else in Lancia Stratoses. ;) Or Mini Coopers. ;) Except H. Solberg who could choose whatever car he wanted. ;) :p :

[Tomi]

Well, what would really be great is Märtin in the Focus RS WRC03 - sponsored by God - and everyone else in Lancia Stratoses. ;) Or Mini Coopers. ;) Except H. Solberg who could choose whatever car he wanted. ;)

Funny :)

[alleskids]

Pirelli is considering to be the sole tyre supplier for 2008, so they have to keep a foot into the 2007 WRC to have up to date data, and they save a lot of money for not sponsoring the 2 car/16 rounds plus a occasional 3rd car for the Subaru team, so a second (third) handed 307/Lancer WRC for Gigi Galli should make sence.

[Mr Fudd]

Pirelli is considering to be the sole tyre supplier for 2008, so they have to keep a foot into the 2007 WRC to have up to date data, and they save a lot of money for not sponsoring the 2 car/16 rounds plus a occasional 3rd car for the Subaru team, so a second (third) handed 307/Lancer WRC for Gigi Galli should make sence.

There are no second or third hand Lancers .