Can IndyCar Overtake F1?

[cynisca]

I have been thinking about an article in a German motorsports newspaper which includes that the IndyCar could overtake the Formula One as the highest level of motorsport. That article, I have read, was in 2002, but it doesn't go out of my brain. :p : It said that it could be happen in 2007. Now, we have 2009. So, what do you think? Has the IndyCar the power to become the highest level in motorsports? Bigger than Formula One?

[NickFalzone]

Short of F1 not existing (which honestly is not impossible with their stupid politics) the answer is no. The NASCAR fans would say that IndyCar needs to surpass them as well to get to the top. This is a pretty ridiculous question IMO, not going to happen. Best IRL can hope for in the next decade is to solidify its spot as the runner-up to F1, that's if the IRL survives that long to become CART 2.0.

I personally believe that the quality of the drivers, tracks, and the equipment (if not the variety) puts the IRL in a first class, but the lack of tv popularity and attendance really sets the league back.

[Chris R]

Short of F1 not existing (which honestly is not impossible with their stupid politics) the answer is no. The NASCAR fans would say that IndyCar needs to surpass them as well to get to the top. This is a pretty ridiculous question IMO, not going to happen. Best IRL can hope for in the next decade is to solidify its spot as the runner-up to F1, that's if the IRL survives that long to become CART 2.0.

I personally believe that the quality of the drivers, tracks, and the equipment (if not the variety) puts the IRL in a first class, but the lack of tv popularity and attendance really sets the league back.

pretty good take o nthings...

I would add that AOWR has never had the sort of leadership/cohesion that NASCAR or F1 has enjoyed in the past 25 years - without somebody guiding the sport and without "players" who are not willing to follow it isn't going to happen....

[drewdawg727]

I was thinking this thread was about an Indycar overtaking a Formula 1 car...in that case, no.

[DanicaFan]

IndyCar has always been better than F1 to me.

[Hoop-98]

IndyCar has always been better than F1 to me.

I am a die hard US based open wheel motorsports fan. If Indycar passes F1 then Danica is a shoo-in for WDC, you read it here first!

rh

[Hoop-98]

I was thinking this thread was about an Indycar overtaking a Formula 1 car...in that case, no.

As raced legally in 2009, an Indycar at Bonneville would beat a F1 car there. IMTO (In My Technical Opinion) based on measured speeds racing this year.

rh

[anthonyvop]

As raced legally in 2009, an Indycar at Bonneville would beat a F1 car there. IMTO (In My Technical Opinion) based on measured speeds racing this year.

rh
How did you come to that conclusion?
F1 races on a road course only. So you have no idea how fast an F1 car is.

Actually an F1 car has more HP, weighs less and has less downforce. Basic physics dictates that it would leave an IRL Dallara in it's dust.

back to the subject. For ICS to surpass F1 it would have to.........forget it. Ain't gonna happen.

[call_me_andrew]

Maybe if we go back in time to 1994 and kill TG to stop the split from happening...

And the F1 car has more downforce, not less.

I once saw a video from Motegi (circa 2008) of a 3-5 lap race between an IndyCar and a F1 car on the oval. The F1 car won.

[grungex]

This thread is a joke, right?

[Hoop-98]

How did you come to that conclusion?
F1 races on a road course only. So you have no idea how fast an F1 car is.

Actually an F1 car has more HP, weighs less and has less downforce. Basic physics dictates that it would leave an IRL Dallara in it's dust.

back to the subject. For ICS to surpass F1 it would have to.........forget it. Ain't gonna happen.

See my criteria.

f1 has more downforce, i used trap speeds, what data did you use tony?

[garyshell]

See my criteria.

f1 has more downforce, i used trap speeds, what data did you use tony?

Being the excellent reporter he is, Anthony used a NOOMA, of course.

Gary

[peasant]

Can it overtake F1 in a race to oblivion. Yes absolutely.

Anything Else, you comedian you!!

[Chris R]

How did you come to that conclusion?
F1 races on a road course only. So you have no idea how fast an F1 car is.

Actually an F1 car has more HP, weighs less and has less downforce. Basic physics dictates that it would leave an IRL Dallara in it's dust.

back to the subject. For ICS to surpass F1 it would have to.........forget it. Ain't gonna happen.

I "trimmed out" F-1 car MIGHT be faster in a straight line than an Indycar - but it wouldn't be legal... An Indycar in superspeedway trim will absolutely be faster in a straight line than an F-1 car even in the lowest drag configuration (which probably still generates more downforce than an Indycar in the highest downforce trim...)

I do agree that Indycar is in no danger of "passing" F-1

[peasant]

Come on is this really a serious thread??

A serious question would be can the series last till a new formula? I'd say that's pretty iffy. Which is sad. Very sad.

[anthonyvop]

I "trimmed out" F-1 car MIGHT be faster in a straight line than an Indycar - but it wouldn't be legal...
Why wouldn't it be legal?
The rules state max wing sizes not min. they could trim out all the want.

[anthonyvop]

See my criteria.

f1 has more downforce, i used trap speeds, what data did you use tony?

PHYSICS.

[PA Rick]

See my criteria.

f1 has more downforce, i used trap speeds, what data did you use tony?

An F1 car would leave an IRL car in the dust. However, a pre 2000 CART car would probably win a straight line contest.
At Indy when they ran F1, they needed to balance straightaway speed with cornering downforce. The cars that were fastest in a straight line had slower lap times.
Believe me, if you trimmed out an F1 car it would beat an Indy car in the 500 or in a straight line, or on a street course or a 1.5 m oval. Or even Richmond.

[Chris R]

ok, what is HP on a current F-1 car with the 2.4L motor? Current IRL car?

Weight of each?

There is no question in my mind that a tricked out F-1 car could outperform an Indycar - but using the fastest gears each use, the trimmest wings settings (without building new wings for either car) - basically working with what they actually use during the race season - I still think the Indycar would "win" a straightline race....

I cannot see how an F-1 car wouldn't be quicker at Richmond or any road course - but I am not sure they would drive really well at the bigger ovals..... each car has evolved a certain way for good reasons.....

[SarahFan]

ouch

[Jag_Warrior]

Has the IndyCar the power to become the highest level in motorsports? Bigger than Formula One?

I believe that it was the great American philospher (and amateur chemist), Wavy Gravy, who said it best:

"Stay away from the brown acid. Don't eat the brown acid."

http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/5d390de8/music_feature-18628.jpeg

Even including Indy, the IRL will be lucky if it finishes this season with a higher average TV viewership per race than the NASCAR Truck series in the U.S. From what I've read of the IRL's international TV package, it's somewhere between sad and pitiful. So, uh... if one is tempted to go against Wavy's advice, I guess just don't do it alone.

[ShiftingGears]

No.

[anthonyvop]

ok, what is HP on a current F-1 car with the 2.4L motor? Current IRL car?

F1 Hp quotes are quite secret but most people assume 750-825 Hp
Indycar 650 Hp


Weight of each?

F1= 605 kg (1334 lb) including the driver, fluids and on-board cameras.

Indycar 1,530 pounds minimum for oval events and 1,600 pounds minimum for road/street events, including all lubricants and coolants, but not the driver or fuel

Huge difference.

Seriously. An IRL car is in the A1GP range performancewise.

[Hoop-98]

An F1 car would leave an IRL car in the dust. However, a pre 2000 CART car would probably win a straight line contest.
At Indy when they ran F1, they needed to balance straightaway speed with cornering downforce. The cars that were fastest in a straight line had slower lap times.
Believe me, if you trimmed out an F1 car it would beat an Indy car in the 500 or in a straight line, or on a street course or a 1.5 m oval. Or even Richmond.

You note, I said "as raced". Of course the 800 plus HP F1 car could be made to outrun a 670 HP IndyCar.

The terminal velocity is a function of gearing, rolling resistance, and Aero drag. If for no other reason the F1 car, even at the fastest tracks would be geared to low to match an IndyCars top speed.



As they race now the F1 car, plucked from a grid, would be slower than an IndyCar in Indy trim in a straight line.


I don't think anyone with critical thinking skills sees a path for IndyCar to overtake F1 on the world stage. I was taking this thread with a shaker full of salt ;n)

rh

[Hoop-98]

F1 Hp quotes are quite secret but most people assume 750-825 Hp
Indycar 650 Hp



F1= 605 kg (1334 lb) including the driver, fluids and on-board cameras.

Indycar 1,530 pounds minimum for oval events and 1,600 pounds minimum for road/street events, including all lubricants and coolants, but not the driver or fuel

Huge difference.

Seriously. An IRL car is in the A1GP range performance wise.

The weight is not a significant factor for top speed, drag and rolling resistance are. Weight would affect the acceleration, and of course the IndyCar would be far slower to accelerate and is closer to A1GP than F1 on road courses.

Of course anyone who knows the physics of racing would know all this ;)

http://phors.locost7.info/phors06.htm


rh

[garyshell]

I was taking this thread with a shaker full of salt ;n)



Would that be a 7 post, 5 post or 4 post shaker? :D

Gary

[FIAT1]

Irl overtake F1. O' please.

[Hoop-98]

Would that be a 7 post, 5 post or 4 post shaker? :D

Gary

lol why 7 of course!

[anthonyvop]

The weight is not a significant factor for top speed, drag and rolling resistance are. Weight would affect the acceleration, and of course the IndyCar would be far slower to accelerate and is closer to A1GP than F1 on road courses.

Of course anyone who knows the physics of racing would know all this ;)

http://phors.locost7.info/phors06.htm

rh
Despite your article, weight is a factor in top speed.
Weight ADDS ROLLING RESISTANCE!

So lets review.

Over 200 less pounds
Over 100 extra Horsepower
Significantly better aerodynamics
similar (If not less) drag

So tell me again how a Indy Car Dallara is faster?

[Hoop-98]

Despite your article, weight is a factor in top speed.
Weight ADDS ROLLING RESISTANCE!

So lets review.

Over 200 less pounds
Over 100 extra Horsepower
Significantly better aerodynamics
similar (If not less) drag

So tell me again how a Indy Car Dallara is faster?

Much less drag in speedway trim than F1. As raced the F1 will run out of gear also.

rh

[Hoop-98]

First off we all know that an F1 car is superior in virtuall every performance aspect except top speed as raced.

We also know you could modify a F1 car to go faster.

Honda set the f1 Landspeed record at Bonneville at 220 (355) and change. The fastest INDY trap speeds were with the 96 IRL and The Mercedes Pushrod, around 400 Km/Hr for the 96 Indy. The fastest trap I know of was Montoya in 2005 (F1) 379.

For the last year, here are the fastest trap speeds at:

Indy 2009 371

2009:
Australia 308
Malaysia 306
China 295
Bahrain 314
Spain 314
Monaco 290
Turkey 312
Great Britain 306
Germany 303

The fastest 2008 Trap was Italy 339.

http://i26.tinypic.com/aw5lba.jpg

rh

[Hoop-98]

Whoops, the Torque numbers are off in that example, Max torque is a shade over 350, about the same as the XFE.

Max power and torque per Cosworth
750 328 12000
733 350 11000

rh

[anthonyvop]

You cannot compare trap speeds as F1 doesn't race on any oval. An F1 car never gets a chance to totally wind it out.
Also you can change gear ratios on an F1 car just as you can an Indy Car.

In every measure an F1 car is superior to the Dallara Honda.

[peasant]

First off we all know that an F1 car is superior in virtuall every performance aspect except top speed as raced.

We also know you could modify a F1 car to go faster.

Honda set the f1 Landspeed record at Bonneville at 220 (355) and change. The fastest INDY trap speeds were with the 96 IRL and The Mercedes Pushrod, around 400 Km/Hr for the 96 Indy. The fastest trap I know of was Montoya in 2005 (F1) 379.

For the last year, here are the fastest trap speeds at:

Indy 2009 371

2009:
Australia 308
Malaysia 306
China 295
Bahrain 314
Spain 314
Monaco 290
Turkey 312
Great Britain 306
Germany 303

The fastest 2008 Trap was Italy 339.

http://i26.tinypic.com/aw5lba.jpg

rh

Now lets see the fastest trap speed in Indy with a standing start at the middle of turn 3, because thats the equivalent of what F1 does. It's an utterly stupid comparison.

An Indy car weighs more, has less horsepower, far lower rev limit. I don't know about downforce - but as that is adjustable I think we can safely assume an F1 car can acheive a higher top line speed if its set up for that. Oh yeah F1 cars can be majorly modified, unlike the dallara thingies.

Stupid thread all round. :Bunny:

[jimispeed]

Why is this even a debate??

Now, if it was Champcar, it could be debatable....but I think F1 still would win hands down. Although SB beat some F1 track record in the DP01 in '07......

[ShiftingGears]

Now, if it was Champcar, it could be debatable

No it wouldn't.

[peasant]

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6977

f1 speed thread.

[Hoop-98]

Now lets see the fastest trap speed in Indy with a standing start at the middle of turn 3, because thats the equivalent of what F1 does. It's an utterly stupid comparison.

An Indy car weighs more, has less horsepower, far lower rev limit. I don't know about downforce - but as that is adjustable I think we can safely assume an F1 car can acheive a higher top line speed if its set up for that. Oh yeah F1 cars can be majorly modified, unlike the dallara thingies.

Stupid thread all round. :Bunny:

And yet :bunnyman, like a moth to the flame you post in it.

I stand by my original assertion, pluck a F1 car from any course and it will be slower than a 2009 Indycar in a straight line.'


Anyone have some data to dispute that.

And for the remedial enthusiasts, you can start in any turn you want but unless you change the gearing in a F1 car it will run out of RPM well short of Indycar speeds.

Changing the gearing is not "as raced".

Look, I know exactly how much faster the F1 car is on an apples and apples comparison. That it is not what I asserted.

So give this stupid thread a few more bumps?


rh

[peasant]

And yet :bunnyman, like a moth to the flame you post in it.

I stand by my original assertion, pluck a F1 car from any course and it will be slower than a 2009 Indycar in a straight line.'


Anyone have some data to dispute that.

And for the remedial enthusiasts, you can start in any turn you want but unless you change the gearing in a F1 car it will run out of RPM well short of Indycar speeds.

Changing the gearing is not "as raced".

Look, I know exactly how much faster the F1 car is on an apples and apples comparison. That it is not what I asserted.

So give this stupid thread a few more bumps?


rh

so your only argument is that they are geared lower. Brilliant, we're all so stupid. Sticky worthy thread, a stupid argument for all based on an even ridiculous thread. great.

[garyshell]

I was thinking this thread was about an Indycar overtaking a Formula 1 car...in that case, no.


As raced legally in 2009, an Indycar at Bonneville would beat a F1 car there. IMTO (In My Technical Opinion) based on measured speeds racing this year.

rh


so your only argument is that they are geared lower. Brilliant, we're all so stupid. Sticky worthy thread, a stupid argument for all based on an even ridiculous thread. great.


From the very first reply where Hoop said that the Indycar would out pace an F1 car, it was very clear he said "as raced". There it is above in the first sentence. It's not as if he changed his criteria as the thread moved along. It has actually been sort of humorous watching anthony and others trot out their "physics" and other arguments to refute what Hoop said. Especially given the fact that Hoop is one of the few folks here who actually has a firm handle on the real calculations involved in these sorts of technical discussions.

What is stupid is the attempt to argue against Hoops assertion WITHOUT also clarifying that modifications from the "as run" aspect would be required to turn the tables.

If anyone had actually said, "with a similar gearing and aero trim to an Indycar, an F1 car would win hands down", I'd be willing to bet Hoop would not only agree, but given time could quote you some theoretical numbers based on CALCULATIONS, as opposed to shoot from the hip gut reactions.


Gary

[jimispeed]

No it wouldn't.

http://www.germancarzone.com/other-motorsports/12181-sebastien-bourdais-breaks-laguna-seca-track-record-new-panoz-dp01-chassis.html

But Zonta is a terrible driver, right?? :rolleyes: It happened....

The DP01 only lasted a year.......think of what further development could have done. Beautiful!!

[peasant]

From the very first reply where Hoop said that the Indycar would out pace an F1 car, it was very clear he said "as raced". There it is above in the first sentence. It's not as if he changed his criteria as the thread moved along. It has actually been sort of humorous watching anthony and others trot out their "physics" and other arguments to refute what Hoop said. Especially given the fact that Hoop is one of the few folks here who actually has a firm handle on the real calculations involved in these sorts of technical discussions.

What is stupid is the attempt to argue against Hoops assertion WITHOUT also clarifying that modifications from the "as run" aspect would be required to turn the tables.

If anyone had actually said, "with a similar gearing and aero trim to an Indycar, an F1 car would win hands down", I'd be willing to bet Hoop would not only agree, but given time could quote you some theoretical numbers based on CALCULATIONS, as opposed to shoot from the hip gut reactions.


Gary

Still a stupid thread. A Dallara set up for one of the road courses would be out stripped in straight line pace by one set up for Indy. Shall we argue by how much?

Why do you sign every post with your name when its already there every time anyway?

[Mihai]

http://www.germancarzone.com/other-motorsports/12181-sebastien-bourdais-breaks-laguna-seca-track-record-new-panoz-dp01-chassis.html

But Zonta is a terrible driver, right?? :rolleyes: It happened....

The DP01 only lasted a year.......think of what further development could have done. Beautiful!!

The time set by an F1 demo car is quite irrelevant for the real potential of a Grand Prix single-seater. Why not comparing quali lap times when both F1 and CART raced competitively on the same track. To my knowledge, it happened in 2002, when the F1 race was held on June 9 and the CART race two and 1/2 months later, on August 25.

Montoya took pole in his Williams-BMW F1 in 1:12.836 while the first slot on the grid in the CART race was earned by Da Matta in a time of 1:18.959. The track layout was the same (2.71 miles) and the weather was clear on both race weekends. Is was then said the CART seems to be on par with F1's feeding-series, the F3000 (now GP2).

LE: the same with the fastest lap of the race: 1:15.960 for Montoya in F1, 1:20.238 for Franchitti in CART.

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.germancarzone.com/other-motorsports/12181-sebastien-bourdais-breaks-laguna-seca-track-record-new-panoz-dp01-chassis.html

But Zonta is a terrible driver, right?? :rolleyes: It happened....

The DP01 only lasted a year.......think of what further development could have done. Beautiful!!

It was an exhibition car, set up for exhibition laps. Don't kid yourself.

And a Champ Car turning in a faster lap against an exhibition car has nothing to do with the popularity of AOWR.

[jimispeed]

It was an exhibition car, set up for exhibition laps. Don't kid yourself.

And a Champ Car turning in a faster lap against an exhibition car has nothing to do with the popularity of AOWR.


It's really stupid to compare the IRL, or Champcars' DP01 to F1 anyways IMO!!

The technology programs are pretty different. The money spent is waaay different.

I said nothing about popularity of AOWR, but since you mentioned it. Whatever the case may be, Laguna Seca had a track record.....it was set by an F1 car.....the DP01 beat it!! It ruffled the feathers across the pond. It impressed millions of fans and racing enthusiasts. Remember, most fans are thrilled by the drivers and cars, and don't even care to get heavily into what makes them do what they do..... It was good for AOWR!! It happened!! And it was nice to see an American open wheel race car developed with a relatively low budget compared to F1's practices, do extremely well right out of the gate (after a few bug fixes).

Further development of that design would have been nice. I would love to see an American manufacturer such as Panoz continue to thrive!

This thread is still a no brainer......in open wheel nothing compares to F1 engineering. You'd need a huuge budget for that! But the DP01 was a thrill to drive according to the drivers that I spoke with!! And some of them were veterans who've driven many different series of cars.

Carry on!!

[SportscarBruce]

I personally believe that the quality of the drivers, tracks, and the equipment (if not the variety) puts the IRL in a first class, but the lack of tv popularity and attendance really sets the league back.

The attendence is just fine, it's the sports media conglomerate that presents an insurmountable barrier to overcome. Control the media, you control the masses. Brian France and his vested Mad Ave marketing buddies have a chokehold on it and they ain't letting go no matter what...

[Colin_Harvey]

Whatever the case may be, Laguna Seca had a track record.....it was set by an F1 car.....the DP01 beat it!! It ruffled the feathers across the pond. It impressed millions of fans and racing enthusiasts.

Did it?? Rather than ruffling feathers on this side of the Atlantic, it barely got a mention.

It ruffled the feathers across the pond. It impressed millions of fans and racing enthusiasts.

Hahahahahahahahaha!

What a fecking joke.

[SportscarBruce]

Well, seems like you not only heard of it but possess strong opinions on the car as well. Makes it newsworthy, does it not?

[PA Rick]

I contend that a New York City Taxi with stock all weather tires would beat both the F1 car and the IRL car in 6 inches of snow at Spa.

[Chris R]

I contend that a New York City Taxi with stock all weather tires would beat both the F1 car and the IRL car in 6 inches of snow at Spa.
:rotflmao:

[jimispeed]

Did it?? Rather than ruffling feathers on this side of the Atlantic, it barely got a mention.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2007-03-10-599824081_x.htm

http://www.germancarzone.com/other-motorsports/12181-sebastien-bourdais-breaks-laguna-seca-track-record-new-panoz-dp01-chassis.html

Well as I said, I don't think there really is a comparison. But it is what it is! And it was on TV, and in the media for its time.

F1 is in a class all its own!! It is a little more like Champcar than it used to be though!!

[Colin_Harvey]

Did it?? Rather than ruffling feathers on this side of the Atlantic, it barely got a mention.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2007-03-10-599824081_x.htm

http://www.germancarzone.com/other-motorsports/12181-sebastien-bourdais-breaks-laguna-seca-track-record-new-panoz-dp01-chassis.html



So you demonstrate that it attracted loads of attention around the world, you point to an article in USAtoday (the name kinda gives away just how uninternational that is..!!) and a message board for German car enthusiasts with a whole 8 responses to the story, most of which discuss whether the Renault F1 team would be French enough to hire Bourdais!

[jimispeed]

So you demonstrate that it attracted loads of attention around the world, you point to an article in USAtoday (the name kinda gives away just how uninternational that is..!!) and a message board for German car enthusiasts with a whole 8 responses to the story, most of which discuss whether the Renault F1 team would be French enough to hire Bourdais!


USA Today (trademarked as USA TODAY in capitals) is a national American daily newspaper[ published by the Gannett Company. It was founded by Allen 'Al' Neuharth. The paper has the widest circulation of any newspaper in the United States (averaging over 2.11 million copies every weekday), and among English-language broadsheets, it comes second worldwide, behind only the 3.14 million daily paid copies of The Times of India.

So, there aren't that many open wheel or F1 fans around the world??

My point was that F1 is the pinnacle of open wheel racing. Indycars used to be highly praised many years ago. The DP01 got alot of praise for it's performance a few years ago. I only brought it up because someone said that there is no comparison. While I do agree that F1 puts more money in its engineering programs than any open wheel series, there was some cause for comparison a few years ago.

:( :confused: :mad:

anybody easy going around here??

[millencolin]

The only time Indycar got close was in the early-mid 90's... Events accross the USA, Canada and Australia, multiple teams, top calibre drivers, multiple chassis and engine providers, wide ranging television broadcasts... It was so strong it lured the current Formula One world champion!!

Nowadays... It's has some good drivers... SOME... and thats about it. Boring races, boring locations, boring car and engine, not great tv coverage... Indycar shot itself in the foot and that wound has spread throughout the body....

The DP01 got alot of praise for it's performance a few years ago.

From die-hard Champcar fans.

The rest of the world, including the F1 fan-base, didn't notice it.

The DP01 was such a great car that the series it ran in folded and was bought up by its rival whilst the series that runs the same Panoz tub, Superleague, managed a six car field for its opening race of this year....

....yes, the DP01 was amazing....amazingly impotent at its job.



anybody easy going around here??

Not when you type tripe.

[markabilly]

I have been thinking about an article in a German motorsports newspaper which includes that the IndyCar could overtake the Formula One as the highest level of motorsport. That article, I have read, was in 2002, but it doesn't go out of my brain. :p : It said that it could be happen in 2007. Now, we have 2009. So, what do you think? Has the IndyCar the power to become the highest level in motorsports? Bigger than Formula One?


yes, except it was a year late. The real wdc for 2008 was not lewie, but ???, what his name?? :confused: the one that won it all?? :confused: I can not think?? Oh yeah, Danica!!

Next year will be even better with the new "clabber girl" crew running IRL. there might even be an indy 500 with open wheels in 2010....maybe.....

[markabilly]

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/03/24/clabber%20girl.jpg

[SportscarBruce]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2007-03-10-599824081_x.htm

[URL]
F1 is in a class all its own!! It is a little more like Champcar than it used to be though!!

Actually ALOT. F1 is looking ALOT like US Open Wheel circa 1994. :p

[jimispeed]

Not when you type tripe.


anybody easy going around here??


So, none of you thought that the DP01 was a great car?

It's also pretty clear that you would rather badger me for trying to retain some of the things that made open wheel racing great!

Starter, if I made that remark that tamburello made towards me, you'd remove me permanentally from these boards immediately!! (which would make many of you very happy)

I don't take shots at others.

I do think we all as fans got the prostate exam!! And the drivers deserve better, we deserve to see it!!

If you all want me to disappear rather than voice what I think this series needs and the drivers deserve, just say the word!!

[markabilly]

..the word....



ps-could you get someone to post the video?

[Colin_Harvey]

USA Today (trademarked as USA TODAY in capitals) is a national American daily newspaper[ published by the Gannett Company. It was founded by Allen 'Al' Neuharth. The paper has the widest circulation of any newspaper in the United States (averaging over 2.11 million copies every weekday), and among English-language broadsheets, it comes second worldwide, behind only the 3.14 million daily paid copies of The Times of India.



What the hell are you talking about?! Your original point was that there was loads of attention about the lap record, around the world and that it ruffled feathers in Europe. So how does USA today running the story confirm this??

[Lemmy-Boy]

Check out the YouTube Videos:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C51Ea_OeIaA
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3BvkY1pEdQ&NR=1

Oval Race between: Dallara-Honda vs Honda F1 Honda vs Super-Aguri-Honda .

Filmed during "Honda Thanks Day" at Twin Ring Motegi. There's no comparison, even while racing on an oval, modern day F1 cars are superior. The spec-IRL car don't stand a chance. However, if a 1997-2002 Champcar (with 1000HP) was used, the results would be different.

[jimispeed]

What the hell are you talking about?! Your original point was that there was loads of attention about the lap record, around the world and that it ruffled feathers in Europe. So how does USA today running the story confirm this??

Well, I thought if I showed a little documentation it would help! I said "it ruffled a few feathers". That doesn't mean it was a huge intimidation!!

I thought the USA Today article would show a little more than some independant blog out there. Its not that there was a phenomenal amount of attention, but rather if Speednews showed it, Wind Tunnel talked about it, and various publications ran the story,then I'm sure quite alot of people were exposed to it!! I certainly remember seeing it!

Maybe you guys should just cut me at the knees, put me in some cement shoes and drop me in the river, since I'm the only one left!!

[Chris R]

Check out the YouTube Videos:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C51Ea_OeIaA
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3BvkY1pEdQ&NR=1

Oval Race between: Dallara-Honda vs Honda F1 Honda vs Super-Aguri-Honda .

Filmed during "Honda Thanks Day" at Twin Ring Motegi. There's no comparison, even while racing on an oval, modern day F1 cars are superior. The spec-IRL car don't stand a chance. However, if a 1997-2002 Champcar (with 1000HP) was used, the results would be different.

well, that about settles it. wow.....

[markabilly]

Maybe you guys should just cut me at the knees, put me in some cement shoes and drop me in the river, since I'm the only one left!!

A video of that one, too, please???
I will add it to my danica collection

those who understand, do, those that do not, never will...your point is noted for the record.

Actually if they cut of your legs at the knees, the cement shoes will probably not work and let you drift up to the surface like peterson's former wife....

[jimispeed]

A video of that one, too, please???
I will add it to my danica collection

those who understand, do, those that do not, never will...your point is noted for the record.

Actually if they cut of your legs at the knees, the cement shoes will probably not work and let you drift up to the surface like peterson's former wife....


Can you read correctly???? It says "Cut me at the knees"!! This is the same forum of those who thrive at ridicule, instead of intelligent open discussion.

I suppose the mods will let you get away with that? That's morbid behavior!!

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised!!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

From die-hard Champcar fans.

The rest of the world, including the F1 fan-base, didn't notice it.

The DP01 was such a great car that the series it ran in folded and was bought up by its rival whilst the series that runs the same Panoz tub, Superleague, managed a six car field for its opening race of this year....

....yes, the DP01 was amazing....amazingly impotent at its job.



Not when you type tripe.

Maybe you should try to look things up before claiming them. There were 18 cars at Magny-Cours, in both races. Only the non-championship five-minute race-off for a cash prize had six cars in it. You know why? Because only the top six cars of the weekend qualify for it.

Maybe you should try to look things up before claiming them. There were 18 cars at Magny-Cours, in both races. Only the non-championship five-minute race-off for a cash prize had six cars in it. You know why? Because only the top six cars of the weekend qualify for it.

Ah, whattamistakkatomaka!

Still, the mega amazing Panoz car really has put Superleague in the headlines.....not.

If it did, then how come the races were free for spectators for most of last year?

That alone is proof that, far from being wonderful, the Panoz is just another dull-as-ditch-water spec chassis.

[millencolin]

The weight is not a significant factor for top speed, drag and rolling resistance are. Weight would affect the acceleration, and of course the IndyCar would be far slower to accelerate and is closer to A1GP than F1 on road courses.



rh

We will find out for sure at surfers this year

[V12]

Ah, whattamistakkatomaka!

Still, the mega amazing Panoz car really has put Superleague in the headlines.....not.

If it did, then how come the races were free for spectators for most of last year?

That alone is proof that, far from being wonderful, the Panoz is just another dull-as-ditch-water spec chassis.

Agreed - at least the Dallara became spec by first beating the G-Force on the track (rather than in a tendering document) - the entire field used a Dallara before it became mandatory to do so.

[Hoop-98]

We will find out for sure at surfers this year

Considering the financials of A1GP I wouldn't say for sure!

I probably spend more time than any rational person on the planet understanding the nuances and differences of different performance levels of race cars than most.

I would create a scale that takes into consideration specific HP, specific DF , etc and say that the following applies.

F1 = 1

ChampCar = .7
Indycar = .66
A1GP= .62

Now if I was discussing this with any other rational person who's interest was this subject we could have a lengthy discussion.

If someone wants to show his friends back at his home Forum how he showed up the gomers here, no reference to yourself, I doubt we could have a good discussion. Let's see how this goes :n)

rh

[DexDexter]

This is so stupid, maybe we should change the title of the thread into " Can Indycar fly over F1?" :)

[anthonyvop]

I would create a scale that takes into consideration specific HP, specific DF , etc and say that the following applies.

F1 = 1

ChampCar = .7
Indycar = .66
A1GP= .62

Now if I was discussing this with any other rational person who's interest was this subject we could have a lengthy discussion.

rh
You spent various post disagreeing with me when I said that an F1 car is vastly superior to an IRL Dallara and now you agree with me?
Who is the irrational one.

[PA Rick]

But would a full on 12 cylinder Porsche 917 twin turbo can-am car overtake both? 1580 HP / 1800 lbs. And in a race with a P-51 Mustang neither car would get off the ground.

[DanicaFan]

What is funny is how the original question and thread changed topics.. The original idea and question was, can the IndyCar Series overtake F1 as the leading motorsport of the world, not whether an indycar is faster than a F1 car... ;) :D

[DBell]

What is funny is how the original question and thread changed topics.. The original idea and question was, can the IndyCar Series overtake F1 as the leading motorsport of the world, not whether an indycar is faster than a F1 car... ;) :D

While some like debating questions like this, I kind of find it worthless. The real question that should matter to IRL fans is, will the IRL ever be a successful, profitable business and exciting racing series to watch?

[Hoop-98]

You spent various post disagreeing with me when I said that an F1 car is vastly superior to an IRL Dallara and now you agree with me?
Who is the irrational one.

The one who doesn't read posts before he comments" Like Vince the shamwow guy says, I dunno....

rh

[grungex]

This thread is a joke, right?

Three pages later. What a waste.

:rolleyes:

[Bob Riebe]

I have been thinking about an article in a German motorsports newspaper which includes that the IndyCar could overtake the Formula One as the highest level of motorsport. That article, I have read, was in 2002, but it doesn't go out of my brain. :p : It said that it could be happen in 2007. Now, we have 2009. So, what do you think? Has the IndyCar the power to become the highest level in motorsports? Bigger than Formula One?
I have read some of the posts here, especially early on, so lets keep this short-- NO- with no exceptions, EVER.

[race_director]

I have been thinking about an article in a German motorsports newspaper which includes that the IndyCar could overtake the Formula One as the highest level of motorsport. That article, I have read, was in 2002, but it doesn't go out of my brain. :p : It said that it could be happen in 2007. Now, we have 2009. So, what do you think? Has the IndyCar the power to become the highest level in motorsports? Bigger than Formula One?

Indy car can never take over f1 in the future. Indy is USA only sport. apart from the outing it does a couple of places. Indy is a very different series compared to f1. most people find it very confusing and also the OVAL races are very boring ( its my personal opinion). secondly Indy is not shown around the world. F1 is shown everywhere. people in africa and Asia , AUstralia all are in bed when this guys race.

The timing of race is not very good to follow the race. in my region the race if shown ( they show around 4-5 race live a year by espn) at around 1 am on sunday morning which off course runs runs till 3-4 am. which people follow with monday morning work .