ISC 'track packs' might go away

[SarahFan]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/autoracing/1656344,CST-SPT-nascar08.article

Along with other tracks that sell only a bundled race ticket, Chicagoland will consider abandoning that approach for 2010, Rust said.

''We need to do everything we can to get back to a sellout in 2010,'' Rust said. ''The Track Pack provides a lot of value when you look at it. But that's something that needs to be looked at.''



*this will definitely effect attendance at a few races if it happens.....

[NickFalzone]

What I've heard, and I don't know how accurate this is, is that the "track packs" usually hurt IRL attendance because the NASCAR buyers essentially "fill up" the seats and then often don't show for anything but the NASCAR race. Whereas tracks that have IRL only tickets have more people in the stands. Promoters traditionally haven't cared though if people show or not as long as they buy the tickets.

[SarahFan]

What I've heard, and I don't know how accurate this is, is that the "track packs" usually hurt IRL attendance because the NASCAR buyers essentially "fill up" the seats and then often don't show for anything but the NASCAR race. Whereas tracks that have IRL only tickets have more people in the stands. Promoters traditionally haven't cared though if people show or not as long as they buy the tickets.



You heard wrong

[NickFalzone]

Ken, where the glass is always half empty.

I'll find the link, it was a promoter for a recent oval that the IRL raced at that said the NASCAR tickets fill up IRL seats that don't get used on raceday. When IndyCar-only fans wanted to get decent seats they couldn't. Curt Cavin has said the same thing on his blog regarding ISC track attendance.

[garyshell]

You heard wrong


So what did YOU hear. How can these package deals possibly be good for the IRL. As was said, the NASCAR fans are the ones buying up the packages and staying away in droves. How does that help the IRL fan or the IRL?

Gary

[Lousada]

So what did YOU hear. How can these package deals possibly be good for the IRL. As was said, the NASCAR fans are the ones buying up the packages and staying away in droves. How does that help the IRL fan or the IRL?

Gary

Why is there not a glowing black market in tickets then? Plenty of supply and demand according to your scenario.
Ticket packs help the IRL very much because the promotor can actually make a financial succes out of the race.

[NickFalzone]

Well, that's the other side of the coin. Split as single ticket events, the promoter may well do worse "across the board" on all sales. However they will probably get more individual customers IN SEATS at an IRL only ticket event. Which is good for the IRL, not the promoter. This means potentially more concessions sold at that race as well. But maybe Ken knows more, and just doesn't care to share. From what I can tell, all this particular article says is that NASCAR isn't the ticket seller it used to be, all tickets prices, etc. being equal.

[Lee Roy]

I went to three IRL races at Richmond. Never once did I have to buy a ticket from the track. Usually,as my friend and I got out of my truck after parking a guy would approach us with a fist full of tickets from which we easily purchased two below face value.

[SarahFan]

Has anyone here ever tried to get a ticket to race and not been able to?

Does anyone know anyone who has?

Has there ever been a thread about it?

[methanolHuffer]

I have not had to pay for an Indy500 ticket in over a decade. I'm not exaggerating.
Living here inevitably you run into people that can't go or have company left-overs. Pit passes are still coveted, though.

Parking, that's where the money is. I can't believe I just typed that.

[grungex]

Ken, where the glass is always half empty.

I'll find the link, it was a promoter for a recent oval that the IRL raced at that said the NASCAR tickets fill up IRL seats that don't get used on raceday. When IndyCar-only fans wanted to get decent seats they couldn't. Curt Cavin has said the same thing on his blog regarding ISC track attendance.

There are dozens of sellers of IRL tickets for the Joliet race on ebay right now, somehow I doubt anyone that wished to attend would be unable to. No IRL fans are staying away because of the trackpacks.

[NickFalzone]

As a racing fan with an incentive to get IRL tickets, you may very well be able to easily get tickets through ebay, scalpers, etc. What I'm simply saying is that the reality of these track packs is that you've got a NASCAR race that entirely sells out, and then you've got maybe, at best, half of those ticket buyers that show up to the IRL race. The IRL race is technically ALSO a sellout since all seats were sold for the NASCAR race, and you've got tens of thousands of reserved seats unavailable, and empty. Some of these will be sold 2nd hand to other buyers, but those that go to the track directly are left empty handed. This has happened on a couple of occasions, and I'll find a link to the promoter that complained about it. I'm certainly not defending the IRL's attendance, which is at best half of a NASCAR crowd and usually much smaller than that. I'm simply saying that the track packs do make it more of a challenge for the casual IRL fan to get the seats they want. And just to look at a reverse scenario, the Milwaukee race I believe also did a track pack type deal, with NASCAR trucks, IRL, and Lights. From what I read, the truck series race had a much, much smaller crowd than the IndyCar race. I would also attribute that to this track pack situation, and the trucks might have done better if they were sold individually.

[SarahFan]

As a racing fan with an incentive to get IRL tickets, you may very well be able to easily get tickets through ebay, scalpers, etc. What I'm simply saying is that the reality of these track packs is that you've got a NASCAR race that entirely sells out, and then you've got maybe, at best, half of those ticket buyers that show up to the IRL race. The IRL race is technically ALSO a sellout since all seats were sold for the NASCAR race, and you've got tens of thousands of reserved seats unavailable, and empty. Some of these will be sold 2nd hand to other buyers, but those that go to the track directly are left empty handed. This has happened on a couple of occasions, and I'll find a link to the promoter that complained about it. I'm certainly not defending the IRL's attendance, which is at best half of a NASCAR crowd and usually much smaller than that. I'm simply saying that the track packs do make it more of a challenge for the casual IRL fan to get the seats they want. And just to look at a reverse scenario, the Milwaukee race I believe also did a track pack type deal, with NASCAR trucks, IRL, and Lights. From what I read, the truck series race had a much, much smaller crowd than the IndyCar race. I would also attribute that to this track pack situation, and the trucks might have done better if they were sold individually.


bottom line is that if Chicago drops the track pack IRL attendance will shrink... take it to the bank

[NickFalzone]

You may be right, you may not. When you say IRL attendance, are you referring to people in the stands, or tickets sold? I completely agree on the latter, and I'm sure you'll say both, but I don't agree that there will be less in the stands.

[MDS]

I think this is probably a good thing. Basically what has happened with Kansas and Chicago is that that NASCAR fans bought the "Season Ticket" so they could go to the NASCAR event and ignored the other events, either trying to earn their money back on stubhub, ebay or gave their tickets away to friends. The end result was no promotion and a disinterested crowd in the stands that tended to leave early.

What could/should happen is that the folks at Chicagoland and Kansas have to get out and promote the IRL race on its own merits. What this should me mean is overal more promotion of the IRL in the Chicago and Kansas markets because the IRL races aren't just throwaway events used to slightly increase the amount of an NASCAR ticket. If they approach it like an opportunity its good for both the track and the IRL. Of course, it would be easier for both tracks to just dump the IRL events if they determine the ROI isn't there

[SarahFan]

You may be right, you may not. .


have you yourself ever tried to get a ticket for Chicago or kansas for an IRL race and not been able to get a ticket?

have you ever heard of or know someone who has tried to get a ticket and couldn't?

have you ever read about a fan trying to get a ticket and been unable to?

has there ever been a thread on any IRL centric forum about not being able to get a ticket?

has there ever even been a single post about it?

I'm not wrong on this one.....

[SarahFan]

What could/should happen is that the folks at Chicagoland and Kansas have to get out and promote the IRL race on its own merits

or


Of course, it would be easier for both tracks to just dump the IRL events if they determine the ROI isn't there


hmmm.... there will always be baltimore or dodger stadium or turk&whatever

[chuck34]

I don't know how I come down on this. I do tend to see the side that says it could be good. The way I'm thinking (and I'm not saying this is the case) is that since the event is sold out, the promotor has no insentive to go out and sell more tickets. So you don't get much, if any, radio/TV/newspaper ads telling people about the event. Therefore the more casual fan won't be bothered with it. And the "hard-core" fans will go to ebay, like has been pointed out.

Now the other side says maybe there are about the same number of people buying the NASCAR tickets and going to the IndyCar race just out of curiosity.

I really don't know what the right answer is. All I'm saying is I wouldn't be so quick to call this a bad thing.

[chuck34]

have you yourself ever tried to get a ticket for Chicago or kansas for an IRL and bot been able to get a ticket?

have you ever heard of or know someone who has tried to get a ticket and couldn't?

have you ever read about a fan trying to get a ticket and been unable to?

has there ever been a thread on any IRL centric forum about not being able to get a ticket?

has there ever even been a single post about it?

I'm not wrong on this one.....

Again Ken, like I just posted. There may be people out there that could be interested, but simply don't know about the race because the promotor wasn't bothered to do any promoting. But I don't know that is the case, just a possibility.

[SarahFan]

All I'm saying is I wouldn't be so quick to call this a bad thing.

it wont be a bad thing.... for nascar fans

[chuck34]

it wont be a bad thing.... for nascar fans

So?

All I am saying is that I live within an hour of Chicagoland and I have NEVER seen any advertising for the IRL race. That seems strange to me.

[Lee Roy]

So?

All I am saying is that I live within an hour of Chicagoland and I have NEVER seen any advertising for the IRL race. That seems strange to me.

The point of advertising is to sell [more] tickets. If all of the tickets for the IRL race are already sold through the track-packs, what is the point of advertising? Just to spend lots of money?

[chuck34]

The point of advertising is to sell [more] tickets. If all of the tickets for the IRL race are already sold through the track-packs, what is the point of advertising? Just to spend lots of money?

That's exactly my point. If all the tickets are sold then a promotor won't be doing any advertising. And if those tickets are sold to people who don't want them then the seat goes empty. Therefore, if the seat is not sold anymore, the promotor will do some actual promoting and that seat may now have a person in it. Granted I don't know hwo many people will end up in those seats, but I'm sure there will be some.

I suppose I'm starting to think that perhaps race day attendance won't change much, but the number of seats sold will go down. Probably a bad thing for the track/promotor.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think the attendance AT the track wont change. What will change is the amount of "Sold" tickets for the race. THAT will go down. The NASCAR ticket buyers who bought the packages was/is carrying the freight. This was an IRL/ISC idea that is now a radioactive problem for the IRL. After all these years, someone woke up to the fact that years of not really marketing the IRL will kill them in these markets. Funny, when it was a two series world in OW, IRL people always downplayed the stupidity of riding piggy back on NASCAR fans, but now the chickens will come home to roost.

I think though the fans who have been going to the race will find a way to go, but there will be a ton of "unsold" tickets now at the track. The scalpers can finally not take a bath.....ergo I think this is bad for THAT reason alone. Anytime a scalper loses money, it is a victory for the average sports fan....