Honda Indy Toronto [Archive] - Page 2

beachbum

12th July 2009, 21:43

She wasnt holding anyone up. They couldnt get around. Its a tough track to pass and they couldnt get a good run to make the pass when they needed to. Not Danica's fault, she ran a good race.

I may have to put you on ignore when it comes to the IRL because according to you, Danica cant do anything right.It may be a tough track to pass, but the fast drivers seemed to be able to pull it off. After the race, they all mentioned how much passing they did. Danica passed 2 cars on track all day - Mutoh and Carpenter - both a lap down at the time. But I will give her credit, she didn't make any mistakes (unlike almost everyone else) and ran her fastest laps of the whole weekend near the end of the race. With the strategy she was on, she really needed the yellows to stretch the fuel and got them when she needed them. She did block some faster cars mercilessly, and while I haven't heard anything definitive, she sure let Dixon by very easy after she really chopped him near the end after he was almost completely beside her, so I wonder if a call came from race control.

If you want to put everyone on ignore who doesn't share your glowing regard for Danica, you might just end up talking to yourself.

beachbum

12th July 2009, 21:48

It may have, but it looks like he still has control before the final move. I've noticed Helio playing this game several times during the past two seasons. I can't remember him taking responsibility for any one of them.Helio had almost a half a lane to the outside. It would have been slow, but others got through there side by side. PT was aggressive, but Helio had to know PT wouldn't lift. While IMHO is was somewhat of a racing incident, Helio couldn't have prevented contact. He didn't. At least he lost as well, although you have to feel for PT.

NickFalzone

12th July 2009, 22:45

The IRL rulebook leaves a little too much room for the classic Barnhart judgement calls. He gets them right about half the time, and that was the case today. As far as morones, he's fun to watch but I think it might be time for BB to bench him for a couple races, he's caused wrecks I think every race this year and has gotten black flags in almost as many.

FormerFF

13th July 2009, 00:08

I was really ticked at Helio at first, but when I looked at the replay a couple of times I can't think his move was intentional. I suspect he was trying to recover after Paul touched him and the car hooked up in a hard turn. The way he turned so abruptly there's no way he'd have had a chance of continuing after the impact, and he is in the championship hunt, so crashing out was the last thing he wanted to do.

As far as race control waving Dario around Paul, I absolutely do not understand this. Yes, I understand that Dario was ahead at the moment that the yellow came out, but cars on the track can and do pass cars in the pits under the yellow.

Marbles

13th July 2009, 02:05

There is a shot of the Tracy\HCN incident, head on, on my PVR, from turn 4 which clearly shows the two cars settled and then a turn-in from HCN. The reason for the swerve right is anyone's guess. Mechanical failure? Bad judgment? Loss of control? Whatever it is , it certainly doesn't look like a direct result of a recent tangling of the wheels.

Best to be put down as a racing incident. I'll take this excitement (good new or bad news) anyway I can get it from the IRL.

Great race.

garyshell

13th July 2009, 03:35

Classy call out to the moores from Ashley .... :)

The classiest interview of the day. It truly brought a tear to my eye to hear Ashley mention Greg's family like that. Way to go girl! Way to go.

Gary

jackmart

13th July 2009, 05:22

Ok. Might want to read the post again. She wasn't involved but it was her that held up all the early pitters, Rahal and below for about 20 laps while Tags and PT ran away.

that is so true bc i dropped danica this season for grahama nd he has a hard time passing her. however, power seemed to do it pretty easily and continued passing up the line. I don't think danica is an awsome driver but she does an amazing job at staying in the races, if graham could have stayed behind her the whole way he could have ended up with a great finish.

gerkebi

13th July 2009, 05:31

Yes Helio's hands turned the wheel sharply toward PT. I believe he was trying to regain car control as the his rears lost it. Not intentional, just instinct.

gerkebi

13th July 2009, 05:33

The classiest interview of the day. It truly brought a tear to my eye to hear Ashley mention Greg's family like that. Way to go girl! Way to go.

Gary

Looks like Dario's classiness is finally starting to rub off on her. About time.

Chamoo

13th July 2009, 05:39

Yes Helio's hands turned the wheel sharply toward PT. I believe he was trying to regain car control as the his rears lost it. Not intentional, just instinct.

I doubt that, he would had turned the wheel the other way if the back end slid out on exit of T3.

I think when the wheels touched, it pulled Helio's steering wheel towards PT and that was it.

No fault of anyone involved, but could had been avoided by smarter thinking from Helio.

chuck34

13th July 2009, 13:22

I think the Helio/PT was just a racing deal. PT was a bit over optimistic to put it in there first, then Helio tried to get away from the wall a bit too much when he turned right. A racing accident pure and simple. If PT thought it was anything else, do you really think he would have been as cool?

For my money Will Power was the best out there all day. He came all the way back up to the front, the Roger told him basically to block for Ryan (my take anyway). I hope he gets a full time ride next year either in a 3rd Penske, or taking over for HCN. I think he may be past his sell by date

wedge

13th July 2009, 14:08

Yep racing incident.

They would've gotten away with it more if they were banging wheels on a proper road course.

I'm loving Will Powers car. Harks back to the 80s yellow Penske Rick Mears/Pennzoil

jimispeed

13th July 2009, 15:08

I've watched that incident many times, and it looks like a stupid mistake on Helios part to me. But, it's a racing incident, and both parties handled it well. Wish he could have held his line.

SarahFan

13th July 2009, 15:27

fun practice session....

*side note... it will be interesting to see what AGR announce for attendance....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/toronto-indy-organizers-pleased-despite-low-turnout/article1215925/

'exceeded expectations'

.....decent article, liked that he focused on a 5 year plan to rebuild the event....just wish they didn't spew crap like the above comment, but its part of the deal i know

indycool

13th July 2009, 16:30

Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/665044

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/665026

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/665027

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/665043

http://www.thestar.com/sports/autoracing/article/665045

Indianapolis Star:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090713/SPORTS0107/907130330/1004/SPORTS/Franchitti+has+the+magic+touch+again

Toronto Sun:

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bill_lankhof/2009/07/13/10111461-sun.html

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2009/07/13/10111466-sun.html

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2009/07/13/10111471-sun.html

Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/franchitti-wins-honda-indy-toronto/article1215606/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/indy-organizers-pleased-despite-low-turnout/article1215848/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/tracy-knocked-out-of-honda-indy/article1215605/

London Free Press:

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Sports/Motorsports/2009/07/13/10111726-sun.html

Speed TV:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-target-tames-toronto/

ESPN.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4322675&name=oreovicz_john

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/indycar/news/story?id=4322465

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4322547&categoryid=2755879

(last one is video interview with Franchitti)

gerkebi

13th July 2009, 19:18

I'm loving Will Powers car. Harks back to the 80s yellow Penske Rick Mears/Pennzoil

Agreed! Love it.

Hoop-98

14th July 2009, 22:16

gerkebi

15th July 2009, 19:28

If PT thought it was anything else, do you really think he would have been as cool?

Well, he finally saw the tape and he's decided his IS pissed! "I wish I wouldn't have been such a nice guy at the time."

I got it wrong...

SarahFan

15th July 2009, 19:42

Well, he finally saw the tape and he's decided his IS pissed! "I wish I wouldn't have been such a nice guy at the time."

I got it wrong...

can you elaborate on that post G...

are you saying that after watching footage that paul has changed his stance a bit rearding the contact with helio and made the above statement?

and if so was in regards to his post accident comments and attitude?

NickFalzone

15th July 2009, 20:42

Paul and Vasser have both said on their twitters that they reviewed the tape after the race, frame by frame, and are convinced that Barnyard screwed them. I'm with Hoop that the IRL made the right call, but I guess it's close enough that it's debatable.

gerkebi

15th July 2009, 22:30

can you elaborate on that post G...

are you saying that after watching footage that paul has changed his stance a bit rearding the contact with helio and made the above statement?

and if so was in regards to his post accident comments and attitude?

Yes, after PT saw the tape he changed his mind that it was just a racing thing and thought Helio took him out. I really gave Helio the benefit of the doubt, but there seems to be intent.

That "flash of his gloves turning left abruptly" as noted here I chalked up to massive understeer after getting into the marbles. Those here smarter than me have pointed out that more likely was that the back end got loose coming out of that left hander, and his hands should have shown an abrubt turn right instead to correct. After hearing PT's take, I'm inclined to agree with them.

jackmart

15th July 2009, 23:04

can someone post where PT changes his mind about the incident bc on his blog he made it seem like the tape doesn't look good but that Helio wouldn't take him out on purpose like that.

here is the quote

"I didn’t see the footage until after I did my TV interview, and I don’t think he intentionally took me out, but he jogged to the right and I was fully alongside, so we got hooked together and it shoved both of us in the wall. I guess he was on the marbles, so when he hit the gas, his car got all squirrelly on him and it pointed his nose to the right and took me with him.
I definitely think it was a legitimate place for me to pass – I was fully alongside him – and then he just made a mistake."

TURN3

16th July 2009, 00:30

It is in the report on SpeedTV.com, I think it is Robin Millers article where I read it.

NickFalzone

16th July 2009, 00:50

Kind of cheesy, but IndyCar did a music video of Toronto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYiO6prISK0

Marbles

16th July 2009, 01:20

Kind of cheesy, but IndyCar did a music video of Toronto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYiO6prISK0

Premium fromage. I wish they would give some of us a crack at these things. We were forever stuck with '70's classic rock on the break to commercial and now we get... who was that? The Jonas Brothers? No happy medium for me, I guess.

As for the PT\HCN incident. I would have contributed his hand motions to snap oversteer and not understeer... or a deliberate ramming. Pit telemetry clearly shows he was at ramming speed.

NickFalzone

16th July 2009, 02:08

This is the IRL's stand on the Franchitti/Tracy scoring:

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=14605

Hoop-98

16th July 2009, 02:09

Premium fromage. I wish they would give some of us a crack at these things. We were forever stuck with '70's classic rock on the break to commercial and now we get... who was that? The Jonas Brothers? No happy medium for me, I guess.

As for the PT\HCN incident. I would have contributed his hand motions to snap oversteer and not understeer... or a deliberate ramming. Pit telemetry clearly shows he was at ramming speed.

You know, after they apex when they got roughly parallel, Helio went slightly towards the outer wall, Paul went more abruptly to the left, and there was absolutely no rightward movement by Helio till contact/.

Look at my pics in the golden boy thread.

Why do we keep saying Helio snapped right, prior to the wheel to wheel contact?

rh

garyshell

16th July 2009, 02:33

Looks to me like Helio snapped to the right just after the leading edge of PT's left tire hit the trailing edge of Helio's right tire. Which would have jerked the wheel to the right.

Gary

gerkebi

16th July 2009, 03:13

can someone post where PT changes his mind about the incident bc on his blog he made it seem like the tape doesn't look good but that Helio wouldn't take him out on purpose like that.
"

“I didn’t think he meant to do it until I saw that replay and he turned right into me,” said Tracy, who lost the 2002 Indy 500 to HCN on a disputed call under caution. “Now I wish I hadn’t been such a nice guy.” From SpeedTV

jackmart

16th July 2009, 05:56

“I didn’t think he meant to do it until I saw that replay and he turned right into me,” said Tracy, who lost the 2002 Indy 500 to HCN on a disputed call under caution. “Now I wish I hadn’t been such a nice guy.” From SpeedTV

thanks I wonder which one is the way he really feels or the later comment. his blog post of the quote from speedtv

TURN3

16th July 2009, 06:22

You know, after they apex when they got roughly parallel, Helio went slightly towards the outer wall, Paul went more abruptly to the left, and there was absolutely no rightward movement by Helio till contact/.

Look at my pics in the golden boy thread.

Why do we keep saying Helio snapped right, prior to the wheel to wheel contact?

rh

Because he did. Your photos prove that by his hand position, clearly his left hand is coming up while there is still room between him and PT. Thanks again for those, it really helps.

Why Helio went that direction will never be known. I think we can all agree Helio is anything but honest and what you would call a "straight up guy". Maybe it was him trying to regain control or (more likely) him po'd about getting bumped and then off line to deal with marbles & bad line into the kink. Maybe his thinking was if he squeezed PT, maybe PT would back off (yeah right) or maybe he just intended to rub him back (stupid on Helio's part). There ZERO doubt from those photos or the associated replay that Helio had lost the position based on where he was in the groove and his car's performance at the time. Therefore, to think he had anything less than honorable intentions is a real stretch...especially considering his history, personal and professional. The proper move considering any 1 of 4 or 5 factors was to let PT go. So, using a little psychology, why didn't he?

Hoop-98

16th July 2009, 19:26

I guess we see what we want to see ;n)

Marbles

17th July 2009, 13:55

Mark in Oshawa

18th July 2009, 15:42

Looks like Dario's classiness is finally starting to rub off on her. About time.

She has class, always has....where the hell have you been?

Chamoo

18th July 2009, 17:34

Regardless, no innocents in this battle, a far as I'm concerned. PT's original thumping of HCN could have crippled up his (Tracy's) front end anyways.

Not sure if you knew, but every car PT runs has uber strong suspension pieces, simply so he can bounce of cars. These were tested back in Champ Car, along with his chrome horn.

;)

jimispeed

20th July 2009, 01:51

Hoop-98

20th July 2009, 02:03

This is the power and speed that an open wheel car should have on a road course.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRc0zzPZaZE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi_-AyW1mxE&feature=related

I guess CART didn't agree with you and took 200 HP away.....

Now go run and brag....

rh

jimispeed

20th July 2009, 02:09

I guess CART didn't agree with you and took 200 HP away.....

Now go run and brag....

rh

No bragging needed.....those were the cars!!!

Hard to believe that you gotta live with what you've got until 2012......

Hoop-98

20th July 2009, 02:13

No bragging needed.....those were the cars!!!

Hard to believe that you gotta live with what you've got until 2012......

Did you ever see them?

chuck34

20th July 2009, 03:17

No bragging needed.....those were the cars!!!

Hard to believe that you gotta live with what you've got until 2012......

Jimi you are getting REALLY OLD! How many threads do you have to turn into a CART was awesome thread? Seriously man, are there not enough already? Would it make you happy if the IRL just adopted the 1998 or 1999 CART rule book? You do realise that there were plenty of boring races then too don't you? You do realise that LOTS of teams didn't see the need to stay in that series (for whatever reason)? You do realise that series is now dead?

And the most important question, You do realise that we ALL know you loved those cars? And maybe more importantly we know we aren't EVER going to see those cars again? Right? You do have some sort of self awareness right?

Sorry for being the "forum mother", I am just sick to death of all these CART was great responses popping up all over. Especially in threads where they have ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE. If I am wrong, please let me know. But I think we have enough threads to cover that crap.

jimispeed

20th July 2009, 09:11

Jimi you are getting REALLY OLD! How many threads do you have to turn into a CART was awesome thread? Seriously man, are there not enough already? Would it make you happy if the IRL just adopted the 1998 or 1999 CART rule book? You do realise that there were plenty of boring races then too don't you? You do realise that LOTS of teams didn't see the need to stay in that series (for whatever reason)? You do realise that series is now dead?

And the most important question, You do realise that we ALL know you loved those cars? And maybe more importantly we know we aren't EVER going to see those cars again? Right? You do have some sort of self awareness right?

Sorry for being the "forum mother", I am just sick to death of all these CART was great responses popping up all over. Especially in threads where they have ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE. If I am wrong, please let me know. But I think we have enough threads to cover that crap.

Yes I realise.

Are you speaking of teams who took the Honda/Toyota bait?

I apologise.

I find it hard.

I got on youtube for Toronto, and the next thing, I'm being reminded of what it used to be.

It really has not much to do with CART, but more to do with the merger that wasn't all that it should have been. It's hard to see the attendance and everything from Toronto without looking back.

And yes, hoop98, I've seen them since my dad introduced me to a race back in 1988.

I'm putting myself on probation. I will refrain from my open wheel history.

It's amazingly hard for me. I'm not trying to bring up the past, as much as trying to show what could/should have continued if they had "truly" merged. But instead, we wait until 2012??? That's brutal!!

I need therapy.... :p

Hoop-98

20th July 2009, 18:45

Yes I realise.

Are you speaking of teams who took the Honda/Toyota bait?

I apologise.

I find it hard.

I got on youtube for Toronto, and the next thing, I'm being reminded of what it used to be.

It really has not much to do with CART, but more to do with the merger that wasn't all that it should have been. It's hard to see the attendance and everything from Toronto without looking back.

And yes, hoop98, I've seen them since my dad introduced me to a race back in 1988.

I'm putting myself on probation. I will refrain from my open wheel history.

It's amazingly hard for me. I'm not trying to bring up the past, as much as trying to show what could/should have continued if they had "truly" merged. But instead, we wait until 2012??? That's brutal!!

I need therapy.... :p

Then git er done (therapy), just remember what the point of impact is when a fence straddler slips!!!!!! ;P

rh