No donuts??

[jimispeed]

No Donuts for JW?? Maybe those dogs aren't capable of doing it??

:( :mad:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jimi..you ever go to the Glen? You have too many things to hit and a narrow straight to try and do donuts in. Justin I think is old school, drives around...waves to the fans...and acts like he has done this before....

Class requires not acting like a 5 year old in a Quarter Midget...

[jimispeed]

Jimi..you ever go to the Glen? You have too many things to hit and a narrow straight to try and do donuts in. Justin I think is old school, drives around...waves to the fans...and acts like he has done this before....

Class requires not acting like a 5 year old in a Quarter Midget...


Well,

Every win he had in Champcar contained one........

It's never childish, it's a tribute to Mr. Zanardi! You should know that Mark!!

I still think it's because those cars don't have the power to produce a good donut. :confused: :mad:

[Civic]

Those cars have more than enough power. Heck they could put it in top gear when dropping the clutch and probably still do donuts.

[Chris R]

I would think his past employers had the resources to fix a car that broke while doing donuts - Coyne might not.....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well,

Every win he had in Champcar contained one........

It's never childish, it's a tribute to Mr. Zanardi! You should know that Mark!!

I still think it's because those cars don't have the power to produce a good donut. :confused: :mad:

Tribute to Zanardi? No...most guys do them because they do them.

It is old...it is boring, and when Alex did it NO one else was doing them. Now every race winner does them.

Dale doesn't need Justin tearing up his limited resources when they finally joined the winner's of Indy Car history.

I have always thought most of the guys doing the donuts and smoke show's were just hot dogging it up a bit much. Justin is smart, he know's he may race that car this week in Toronto, so why tear it up?

[bblocker68]

Think Barry Sanders when he's running into the end zone. Not everyone needs to showboat and they need as many good parts as they can save.

[chuck34]

I could be way off base, but I thought I remembered something about Honda handing down a "no donuts" edict. Is that true, or am I off in left field?

Anyway, as Mark said, donuts are old and boring now. When AZ did them first they were cool, but I'm over it.

[Marbles]

Class requires not acting like a 5 year old in a Quarter Midget...

Anyone recall at last years Glen as RHR dived into the box of donuts, his pit minder came on the radio to admonish\remind him, "Remember, we win with class." Which was quickly followed by, "We need that engine next week!"

Ah yes, class. Winning with grace. When a winner gave his competitors more praise then humility would allow him to accept. When winning was celebrated with handshakes and not chest thumping. We'll just call him Gentleman Justin.

Although Zanardi gets credit for the smokey circular celebration I believe it was his friend that drove in Porsche Supercup in Europe that was the originator.

The first ever non-race related "donut" was a team effort. It took place in an empty, snow covered parking lot in north east Toronto, circa 1967. I sat in my father's lap with the wheel cranked fully to the right as he depressed the throttle for what was then a record setting two hours. Well, that's the way I recall it.

[Lousada]

Although Zanardi gets credit for the smokey circular celebration I believe it was his friend that drove in Porsche Supercup in Europe that was the originator.


There have been 'smokey circular celebrations' probably since there have been cars. At least long before Zanardi or a friend from the porsche supercup were born.

Oh and it's boooring!

[jimispeed]

There have been 'smokey circular celebrations' probably since there have been cars. At least long before Zanardi or a friend from the porsche supercup were born.

Oh and it's boooring!

Boring???

I know donuts are nothing new, but.......


Wow, I had no idea so many of you hated seeing that. Ever been there live? Ever seen a Champcar produce so much smoke that you don't even know where the car is?? Ever smell a methanol turbo???

What has happened to open wheel?

IRL.....No donuts? Grid girls? Miss Indy? Maybe this is part of the problem.

[garyshell]

IRL.....No donuts?

No one said it was IRL who mandated no donuts. The speculation is that it was a team decision, since they need the car next weekend and are a bit less funded (to say the last) than some of the other teams. This one ain't on Cottman.

Gary

[dataman1]

Has any other drive done them this year? I don't recall seeing any.

[Marbles]

There have been 'smokey circular celebrations' probably since there have been cars. At least long before Zanardi or a friend from the porsche supercup were born.

Oh and it's boooring!

Oh I agree that somewhere, someone did a spin on the cool down lap but the first one I ever saw after in three decades of motor sport was in a Porsche Supercup in Monaco in 96 or 97. I too believe they're over-rated.

It would be interesting to hear from someone like Drifter on this. He's seen everything from F1 to F1600 at Mosport.

I could see them being outlawed one day because some drivers don't show the best discretion on when and where to do them. I've seen a few close calls on the cool down lap.

[Alexamateo]

Mechanically, they're bad for the engine, and bad for the tires. To tell the truth I cringe everytime I see a driver doing it, it's just low class. I am sure a historically low-buck team owner like Coyne wouldn't want his drivers doing donuts. There's too much risk to the car that serves no real purpose.

[elis]

Ever been there live? Ever seen a Champcar produce so much smoke that you don't even know where the car is?? Ever smell a methanol turbo???

Haha, yup.. Several times, the best in 1998. I was just above pitlane at Toronto when Alessandro won & commenced his perfect one handed donuts on the front straight. I had my camera clicking all the way through it. The air was filled with the smell of burning rubber & the white smoke got thicker & thicker until the car completely disappeared. The roar from the crowd was amazing! Once the smoke disipated there were perfect circles left on the road. Good times :)


I appreciate the need for car preservation in some situations.. but heck
I just think there's a few old sour pusses on here too ;)

[chuck34]

Haha, yup.. Several times, the best in 1998. I was just above pitlane at Toronto when Alessandro won & commenced his perfect one handed donuts on the front straight. I had my camera clicking all the way through it. The air was filled with the smell of burning rubber & the white smoke got thicker & thicker until the car completely disappeared. The roar from the crowd was amazing! Once the smoke disipated there were perfect circles left on the road. Good times :)


I appreciate the need for car preservation in some situations.. but heck
I just think there's a few old sour pusses on here too ;)

I bet that was great to see. But that was 11 years and about a 100,000 or more donuts ago. After a while too much of a good thing just gets boring. It just feels scripted now. Much the same as the kissing the bricks, spraying champagne, flinging the milk around, etc. After a while it looses it's spontanious quality. That is what I like, a guy who is genuinly happy about winning and showing that the best he can. Not someone who HAS to do something because that's what's in the script.

[jimispeed]

No one said it was IRL who mandated no donuts. The speculation is that it was a team decision, since they need the car next weekend and are a bit less funded (to say the last) than some of the other teams. This one ain't on Cottman.

Gary

I was referring to chuck34


I could be way off base, but I thought I remembered something about Honda handing down a "no donuts" edict. Is that true, or am I off in left field?

Anyway, as Mark said, donuts are old and boring now. When AZ did them first they were cool, but I'm over it.

Unless you give the fans lots to look forward to, the series is over! Donuts are great on TV as well!!


Haha, yup.. Several times, the best in 1998. I was just above pitlane at Toronto when Alessandro won & commenced his perfect one handed donuts on the front straight. I had my camera clicking all the way through it. The air was filled with the smell of burning rubber & the white smoke got thicker & thicker until the car completely disappeared. The roar from the crowd was amazing! Once the smoke disipated there were perfect circles left on the road. Good times :)


I appreciate the need for car preservation in some situations.. but heck
I just think there's a few old sour pusses on here too ;)


Thank you elis Racing is more than just racing!! :)

[chuck34]

1) I was referring to chuck34



2) Unless you give the fans lots to look forward to, the series is over! Donuts are great on TV as well!!




3) Thank you elis Racing is more than just racing!! :)

1) I was refering to Honda, not the league. And I haven't been able to find anything about it so perhaps I dreamed the whole issue.

2) People can see past scripted emotion. It's a bore to me. I think this board has proven me to be in the minority on most issues though.

3) Racing IS more than just racing. I agree with that. But it's not about old worn out scripted celebrations, which is precicely what donuts have become.

[jimispeed]

1) Racing IS more than just racing. I agree with that. But it's not about old worn out scripted celebrations, which is precicely what donuts have become.

Well, it's always been part of the races I grew up with, and is a great "Thank You" to the fans!! Justin is great at them!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ4iPL_5xg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzK0hVRkRQ&feature=related






But if the car can't produce a good one.....then it's pretty unimpressive!!

[garyshell]

Well, it's always been part of the races I grew up with, and is a great "Thank You" to the fans!! Justin is great at them!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ4iPL_5xg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzK0hVRkRQ&feature=related






But if the car can't produce a good one.....then it's pretty unimpressive!!


Apparently RHR did some last year, but the "videographer" in this clip missed most of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzgK9XU0ajY

Gary

[jimispeed]

I found an Indy donut.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py4-o_VRfUY

;)

[jimispeed]

And that goes for Helio's fence climbing too. Neat celebration the 1st time or maybe two, now it's just boring.

I think it's all great and I respect the drivers who go out of their way to thank the fans. It also makes great reel footage to promote your product!!

Nascar and the NFL eat it up!!!

[garyshell]

And that goes for Helio's fence climbing too. Neat celebration the 1st time or maybe two, now it's just boring.


For me it is not boring, when it becomes a "signature" for a given driver. The fence for Helio, the donuts for Alessandro, the back flip by the guy in NASCAR etc. It becomes boring when other drivers play "copycat" and repeat the move ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Gary

[Easy Drifter]

I wasn't going to get involved until my name was brought up.
I have never seen one except on TV.
However as an ex mechanic I have some idea of how hard it is on the drivetrain, especially the driveshaft couplings.
Coyne Racing do not have any money to spare.
I also know The Glen. It really is too narrow if the slightest thing goes wrong.
As was pointed out there have been some close calls when people were doing donuts in a confined area.
To those who follow the races all the time it is old hat but to the casual spectator it is spectacular.
I personally think Justin was correct.
Should he win in Toronto maybe on the wide pit straight, but strain on the pocketbook of Coyne Racing says no.
Maybe some new gymnastics on the podium? Like a one hand handstand?
What we need is good racing not post race historonics.
PS. Bring your gas masks for TO. Garbage pick up strike in 3rd week.

[nigelred5]

And that goes for Helio's fence climbing too. Neat celebration the 1st time or maybe two, now it's just boring.

I still prefer the Alan Kulwicki polish victory lap!

[Mark in Oshawa]

For me it is not boring, when it becomes a "signature" for a given driver. The fence for Helio, the donuts for Alessandro, the back flip by the guy in NASCAR etc. It becomes boring when other drivers play "copycat" and repeat the move ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Gary

Helio and the fence was special this year for the pain and scare he had in his life. Climbing that fence was symbolic for the fact he could have just as easily been behind a fence for a few years.

Zanardi and the donuts were special, but that was HIS thing and he did it better than everyone. Now every NASCAR race not won by one of the old school types has some doofus sending up billowing clouds of smoke. Been there...done that, bored with it.

I saw Zanardi's perfect circles in Toronto and was impressed, but still it isn't something I would like to see as a team owner in the IRL when the budget is tight. Honda says these motors have two weekends of racing possible out of them, I would hate to see a guy blow one up doing donuts.

I think do the wacky stuff out of the car in Victory Lane. There is so much that hasn't been done.



Oh yes...Starter, Tim Horton donuts aren't what they once were, I figured it out tonight that us Canadians are more there for the coffee and Tim's management have figured it out. You want good donuts, try on one of the smaller chains when you are up here....

[jimispeed]

I think do the wacky stuff out of the car in Victory Lane. There is so much that hasn't been done.....

Do you wanna see PT in the wrestling outfit again????

Remember Patrick Carpenteir (spelling??) running down the pit lane wearing the checkered flag??

I say do it wherever! Everytime their is a victory, and the celebration is in front of the fans up close, it's always more special. Alot of the paying customers don't get to experience the Victory lane!!

Stay in touch with the fans!! It means alot to some of those young ones out there with dreams of becoming drivers!!!

[Sonic]

At least its not F1 where you're likely to get a hefty fine if you even rev hard on the slowing down lap. Plus with weight limits so tight, burning off 3mm of rubbere ain't gonna help.

[chuck34]

Well, it's always been part of the races I grew up with, and is a great "Thank You" to the fans!! Justin is great at them!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ4iPL_5xg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzK0hVRkRQ&feature=related






But if the car can't produce a good one.....then it's pretty unimpressive!!

There are better ways to "Thank" fans. If that is all you want to see then that's your choice. But for me I would MUCH rather see someone do their own thing and show some true emotion. Not just do something because jimispeed thinks he's owed it.

[chuck34]

For me it is not boring, when it becomes a "signature" for a given driver. The fence for Helio, the donuts for Alessandro, the back flip by the guy in NASCAR etc. It becomes boring when other drivers play "copycat" and repeat the move ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Gary

I agree with this. To me it is a bit boring now. But at least it is "his" move, so I don't have a problem with that. I would much rather see him do it than Tony Stewart. Is Stewart still doing that?

[ShiftingGears]

I really do not care about donuts, grid girls, or Miss Indy. I just want great racing with great teams, drivers and circuits.

[jimispeed]

There are better ways to "Thank" fans. If that is all you want to see then that's your choice. But for me I would MUCH rather see someone do their own thing and show some true emotion. Not just do something because jimispeed thinks he's owed it.


I never said I was "Owed" it!! In fact, I said it's a good way for the drivers to be closer to the fans! It's up close, personal, and alot of kids with racing aspirations out there go home with more fullness in their hearts!! I know that my daughter loves those moments!!

I guess I'm the only one that thinks that way.....

Because I'm jimispeed........and I'm "Owed" it..... :rolleyes:

I never demand anything just for myself. And, I didn't personally attack any of you.

Sorry I brought it up. Starter....just close it....judging by this thread, I'm not sure anyone likes any of that stuff around here.

:( :confused: :mad:

[chuck34]

I never said I was "Owed" it!! In fact, I said it's a good way for the drivers to be closer to the fans! It's up close, personal, and alot of kids with racing aspirations out there go home with more fullness in their hearts!! I know that my daughter loves those moments!!

I guess I'm the only one that thinks that way.....

Because I'm jimispeed........and I'm "Owed" it..... :rolleyes:

I never demand anything just for myself. And, I didn't personally attack any of you.

Sorry I brought it up. Starter....just close it....judging by this thread, I'm not sure anyone likes any of that stuff around here.

:( :confused: :mad:

No offense man. It's just that you seemed to be implying that the drivers owed it to the fans to do donuts. And by fans I inserted your name. Nothing was ment by it really.

And it's not that we don't like any of "that stuff". It's just we don't like it when "that stuff" is manufactured. There are other ways for drivers to get close to the fans. Kulwicki's Polish victory lap, Carl Edwards' back flip, Helio climbing the fence, Zanardi's donuts, Patrick Carpantier running around almost naked, or heck even hanging out for an extra hour signing autographs would do the trick. All I'm saying is it does not have to be obligatory donuts.

[garyshell]

judging by this thread, I'm not sure anyone likes any of that stuff around here.

Then you aren't reading all of what is being said here. Some of us (me) have said we (I) love this stuff. I just don't like it when guys copy each other's showing of their excitement and adulation to the crowd. I like it when they are individual, "signature" expressions. It means a lot more than just every guy doing the same old obligatory donuts. Many of us have called for more marketing of the drivers as individuals. We want the series to drive home that connection to the drivers as people, individuals.

Gary

[Lousada]

Oh I agree that somewhere, someone did a spin on the cool down lap but the first one I ever saw after in three decades of motor sport was in a Porsche Supercup in Monaco in 96 or 97. I too believe they're over-rated.


I saw Martin Schanche doing donuts since the late seventies and they were already old news by then. I even saw Martin doing a victory roll, when he attempted a donut during a flying finish.

Donuts really got old for me when FWD 1000cc mini's did them reversed.

[Will Rogers]

I ran the CDW sponsorship of RuSPORT in 2006 and 2007, and when Justin won the Edmonton race in 2006 his donuts were a thing of beauty. But they had an unintended consequence (isn't that often the case?) when we wanted to run a win ad for him the following week. There was a fantastic photo of him atop the #9 car with his arms raised in jubilation, but it was taken by a photographer from the Edmonston Sun, and not our Series photographer Terri Taylor, so we had to pay for the rights to use it (instead of having a rights-free photo from Terri).

Justin said when he finished his donuts he couldn't see which way he was pointed, so he waited to let the smoke clear. When it did he tried to get the Lola to engage in 1st gear, but to hear him tell it there isn't much clutch slip, it's more a binary on/off situation. Doing the donuts and then sitting waiting for the smoke to clear have raised the engine temp and now it's really touchy, and as luck would have it he killed the engine trying to drive off. "Well, I've made a hash of it" he says to himself, "I've got to do something now to salvage this." So, he gets out of the car and raises his arms and celebrates.

Later I told him--next time you win, first you find Terri Taylor, so we can get a rights free photo--then you can do your donuts!

The perfect coda to this in the following Friday when the win ad graces the back page of the Wall Street Journal while we're all gathered for the race in San Jose. 100 copies of the WSJ are delivered to RuSPORT hospitality, and we're all enjoying the ad when Justin arrives. We show it to him, and he's almost speechless--"That's a big photo" he said, blushing in embarassment by the size of it and the focus on him. He sees Paul Tracy walking past and calls to him to come look at something. He shows PT the ad, waits a bit, then says "Paul, IF you win another race, your team will run one of these for you, won't they?" PT thumps Justin on the arm, growls "F... you!" and stalks off. It was priceless, adding considerably to the already large (and still growing) Justin Wilson legacy.

[jimispeed]

I ran the CDW sponsorship of RuSPORT in 2006 and 2007, and when Justin won the Edmonton race in 2006 his donuts were a thing of beauty. But they had an unintended consequence (isn't that often the case?) when we wanted to run a win ad for him the following week. There was a fantastic photo of him atop the #9 car with his arms raised in jubilation, but it was taken by a photographer from the Edmonston Sun, and not our Series photographer Terri Taylor, so we had to pay for the rights to use it (instead of having a rights-free photo from Terri).

Justin said when he finished his donuts he couldn't see which way he was pointed, so he waited to let the smoke clear. When it did he tried to get the Lola to engage in 1st gear, but to hear him tell it there isn't much clutch slip, it's more a binary on/off situation. Doing the donuts and then sitting waiting for the smoke to clear have raised the engine temp and now it's really touchy, and as luck would have it he killed the engine trying to drive off. "Well, I've made a hash of it" he says to himself, "I've got to do something now to salvage this." So, he gets out of the car and raises his arms and celebrates.

Later I told him--next time you win, first you find Terri Taylor, so we can get a rights free photo--then you can do your donuts!

The perfect coda to this in the following Friday when the win ad graces the back page of the Wall Street Journal while we're all gathered for the race in San Jose. 100 copies of the WSJ are delivered to RuSPORT hospitality, and we're all enjoying the ad when Justin arrives. We show it to him, and he's almost speechless--"That's a big photo" he said, blushing in embarassment by the size of it and the focus on him. He sees Paul Tracy walking past and calls to him to come look at something. He shows PT the ad, waits a bit, then says "Paul, IF you win another race, your team will run one of these for you, won't they?" PT thumps Justin on the arm, growls "F... you!" and stalks off. It was priceless, adding considerably to the already large (and still growing) Justin Wilson legacy.



Thanks Will!!

Bruce Delahome sent me CDW Justin Wilson posters for a few years. Those were some great times, and that donut is one that I provided a link to. They never get old for me. They're one of those powerful things that open wheel cars do so well!!

[wedge]

I think do the wacky stuff out of the car in Victory Lane. There is so much that hasn't been done.

That's why I liked Kyle Busch smashing his guitar trophy at Nashville.

And yeah, he's still a punk, yada yada yada!


The problem with victory celebrations is that NASCAR pawned it and who the hell wants to see Tony Stewart's big ass climb up the flagstand? Apart from the Polish victory lap (God bless Alan Kulwicki, RIP) it's come to the point where donuts and whatnot has lost its specialness and now simply doing the warm down lap and just waving to the fans is now special.

[jimispeed]

now simply doing the warm down lap and just waving to the fans is now special.

That is lame!!

If I pay my $85.00 per ticket, I want my family to enjoy a spectacular celebration all the way to victory lane!

[Civic]

The fans were the reason AZ did his donuts. It started in 1997 during a practice session at Long Beach (don't remember if it was Friday or Saturday). Turn one turned right at the time. AZ came in too hot and went to the run off area. He did a snap 180 and the crowd went nuts. The crowd was loud enough to hear despite that Honda in the back.

Ever the showman, it was natural for AZ to do donuts after his win later that weekend.

[chuck34]

They're one of those powerful things that open wheel cars do so well!!

Didn't you read Lousada's comment? Front wheel drive, 1000cc mini's can do them in reverse. And I can tell you from experience that Brig's powered karts can do them quite well, as can Tag karts, and shifter karts, and Grand-Am Koni cars, NASCAR cars and pretty much any race car out there. What in the world makes you think they are only special to open wheel cars?

[dataman1]

Didn't you read Lousada's comment? Front wheel drive, 1000cc mini's can do them in reverse. And I can tell you from experience that Brig's powered karts can do them quite well, as can Tag karts, and shifter karts, and Grand-Am Koni cars, NASCAR cars and pretty much any race car out there. What in the world makes you think they are only special to open wheel cars?

Big deal! Jimmispeed said "do it well". Do you have to take point with everything. This conversation sucks!

[chuck34]

Big deal! Jimmispeed said "do it well". Do you have to take point with everything. This conversation sucks!

No one is forcing you to participate.

I'm just saying that I think donuts are over-rated and boring. Jimi seems to like them, and that's fine. The other thing he seems have been saying is that IRL cars don't do them because they can't do them "well". I don't know what criteria is used, but I've seen many differnt types of cars do donuts, even in "perfect circles". So I take exception with the assertion that only open wheel cars can do donuts "well".

[garyshell]

They're one of those powerful things that open wheel cars do so well!!


What in the world makes you think they are only special to open wheel cars?


What in the world makes you think the word "only" appeared in jimispeed's comment? Just sayin...

Gary

[chuck34]

What in the world makes you think the word "only" appeared in jimispeed's comment? Just sayin...

Gary

Fair enough, I guess I added that in my own mind.

Last thing I'm gonna say on this.

Donuts have been over done. They are now boring. They are NOT special to open wheel cars. They tear up equipment. And are not necessary to improve "the show".

This is all in my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me. I do not intend any disrespect to anyone that does like donuts.

[garyshell]

Fair enough, I guess I added that in my own mind.

Last thing I'm gonna say on this.

Donuts have been over done. They are now boring. They are NOT special to open wheel cars. They tear up equipment. And are not necessary to improve "the show".

This is all in my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me. I do not intend any disrespect to anyone that does like donuts.


I do agree with you for the most part. They certainly have been overdone. I do think that they do still have a time and a place.

Gary

[bblocker68]

Why don't we have IndyCar build a giant vertical ramp and the winner could do a 400 foot backflip to wow the crowd? That would be sweet, bro-ham!! :)