S2000 World Rally Cup, 2010

[Sulland]

What Teams, cars and drivers can we expect for this gap filler cup, and competitor to IRC in 2010 ?

Will any of todays WRC drivers jump to this one to get experience in the new cars, even if the engine formula will change for 2011, or will all of them continue with todays cars to their death ?

[gloomyDAY]

I'm having a really hard time understanding the S2k cup.

Why is there a championship within a championship?

What happens if the S2k camp gets more entries and becomes more entertaining (which is bound to happen)? Won't that take away a lot of press and attention from the main title?

What is the point of having the S2k cup if all WRCars will be 1.6L in 2011?

Who is going to waste their time in 2010 with S2k cars if they are supposed to develop 1.6L cars?

I need answers people!

[Barreis]

2011 cars are based with chasses on this S2000 formula.. Only engine will be different 'cos 2 litre engines are becomin' history..
S2000 cup.. :)

[Mirek]

For me the S2000 Cup is also a strange thing. All "inside" cups in WRC are absolutely ignored by media (JWRC, PWRC, Fiesta Sporting Trophy, Pirelli Star Driver). Will it be a third useless cup which will make PWRC field weaker or will it replace it?

[Barreis]

But it's also more then 100 S2000 cars outside.. That means that "anybody" can try now not only so rich boys.. :)

[Mirek]

They could drive in PWRC but they didn't. How is it different?

[noel157]

This S2K cup sounds more like an attempt to undermine the IRC although would be interesting to see Meeke, Loix et al take in the odd WRC round.

[Barreis]

]They could drive in PWRC but they didn't. How is it different?

PWRC is nowhere in comparation with WRC.. Now the best drivers will be in S2000.. :)

[ProRally]

It also states that the World Cup teams will be treated like manufactures teams, with same perks. (service park size, media center access etc.)
Lets see who would enter....

[bluuford]

It also states that the World Cup teams will be treated like manufactures teams, with same perks. (service park size, media center access etc.)
Lets see who would enter....
I was thinking about it as well. You can see that it is recommended that they do only 7 events and one outside Europe. That mean, there is practically one year till the start of tha S2000 cup. So, all manufacturers having S2000 cars and thinking about joining WRC have one year to decide and then half year to compete on the same stages that will be used in 2011 when they have developed 1600T cars. That means, they can test their cars in 2010, familiarize with the rallies and develop logistics and at the same time they should get quite reasonable media coverage.

[RS]

This S2K cup sounds more like an attempt to undermine the IRC although would be interesting to see Meeke, Loix et al take in the odd WRC round.

I thought that too, but for me IRC is still better. You can fight for outright wins and it has better media coverage too. As said, nobody is interested in pWRC or jWRC as it is.

[Sulland]

Petter has stated that if he does not get a winning WRC car for 2010 he will do S2000 in 2010. Lets see what he can get his hands on for next year, but it would be fun with Petter in S2000 in the Cup and maybe some IRC rounds !

[Rally Power]

This S2K cup sounds more like an attempt to undermine the IRC (...) .

No doubt about it!

I hope IRC fights back...a Privateers Cup, with only 6 european rallys of the IRC, would be nice in order to attract more independent drivers to the series!

[seb_sh]

I don't know if the S2000 cup is there to undermine IRC, it's more like a desperate attempt to get more entries in the WRC. Next year will probably be the culmination of the bad management WRC has had in recent years with only two manufacturers and a cup for S2000 cars that might steal the show.

This is a bit OT but afaik for a championship to be considered to have "World" status I believe there have to be at least 3 manufacturers entered (and FIA kinda of sidestepped this by introducing "manufacturer teams" and ignoring it's own regulations) Can anyone confirm or infirm this?

[OldF]

IMO it would be interesting if the 2010 manufacturer championship would be with two WRC cars and one S2000.

[306 Cosworth]

But it's also more then 100 S2000 cars outside.. That means that "anybody" can try now not only so rich boys.. :)

Anyone who has an S2000 is a rich boy!

[Barreis]

I agree.. But to rent fabia S2000 from RGRS is 59500 eura for one WRC rally (350 km SS, everything included except 25000 damage from crashes done expences, after that inurance pays the rest) what is nothing compared to 180 000 euros for one long weekend with C4.. For more rallies less price..

[OldF]

By this it’s about three times more expensive to drive a WRC car compared to a S2000. Who is rich is a relative issue but it’s quite obvious that there are more drivers who can afford driving with a S2000 than with a WRC car.

[Barreis]

I agree..

[urabus-denoS2000]

Interesting numbers I didn't know

1 used Evo IX GrN=1 WRC rally with an S2000

[Rally Hokkaido]

Interesting numbers I didn't know

1 used Evo IX GrN=1 WRC rally with an S2000

True, but check on the price to rent a good Evo IX for a PCWRC round!

[Sulland]

Hopefully they do something with the weight of the S2000 in both the World Cup and IRC. They should be 50-100 kg lighter than they have been this year.

No reason to keep them back because they need to be better matched with the Gr N cars any more !

[serial jeff]

Hopefully they do something with the weight of the S2000 in both the World Cup and IRC. They should be 50-100 kg lighter than they have been this year.

No reason to keep them back because they need to be better matched with the Gr N cars any more !

Agreed! 1150/1100kg seems unnecessarily heavy. 1050kg at most seems more reasonable, maybe even 1000.

[Mirek]

It's not possible guys. S2000 regulations are quite simple (which is good) and current stock cars have very heavy bodyshels. S2000 were allowed to be as light as 1100 kg three years a go but none of them was even close to that number. They had around 1150-1170 kg depending on the event. So, 50 kg down is possible but more only with big changes to the rulles which would probably make them more expensive and complicated.

[J4MIE]

It would be veeeeeeeeeeeery expensive to make current S2000 cars lighter....

[serial jeff]

Ah, I see. Shame there isn't a 4wd Lotus Exige... what a rally car that could make, even with the added weight of a 4wd drivetrain.

[OldF]

Yes, it’s the fact. I would say it’s difficult to get the weight below about 1150 kg without using light and expensive materials (titanium, kevlar etc.) and for bigger cars than the current ones I believe it would be impossible.

There was an article in a Finnish magazine (spring 2005 if I remember right) about the first two S2000 cars (Toyota Corolla & VW Polo) in South Africa. The weight of the two Corollas was around 1220 kg and the two Polos around 1180 kg and don’t think they’ve got much lighter by then.

[Sulland]

Do we know of anyone that is going to do this series in 2010 ?

[Barreis]

Mr Chaandler doesn't know how to control cowboys.. I like F1 system.. Mr Briatore is off after "tactic move"..

[AGA]

WRC Cup calendar has been published today - 10 rounds (one more comparing to PC-WRC)

[Mirek]

Can a crew with S2000 car register also into PWRC?

[OldF]

]Can a crew with S2000 car register also into PWRC?

I’m not quite sure but wasn’t the S2000 cup for teams / makes (PWRC for drivers with N4 or S2000 cars).

[RS]

I’m not quite sure but wasn’t the S2000 cup for teams / makes (PWRC for drivers with N4 or S2000 cars).

They really should make these things clearer, it is only a few months away. I would have kept S2000 separate from pWRC altogether.

[DonJippo]

Do we know of anyone that is going to do this series in 2010 ?

Ford is said to be looking a possibility to enter S2000 World Rally Cup 2010.

[Rally Power]

Considering that 2011 WRC will be open to GrN, S2000 and WRC1.6T and GrN will more powerful (33mm restrictor) from 2010, this S2000 Cup doesn't make great sence to be implemented beside PWRC.

Maybe FIA interest at the series has litlle to do with sports and it's more political in order to damaged rival IRC... :mad:

[Francis44]

Is it just me or if they stick with s2000 cars in 2012 they will be more faster than actual wrc's!!!!

[Mirek]

May be but most probably not. It's mostly about future rulles we don't know in the moment...

[Tomi]

Maybe FIA interest at the series has litlle to do with sports and it's more political in order to damaged rival IRC... :mad:

Maybe you can tell somethiong that back up your statement? What I have heard atleast in the rally comission the opinion is that its good to have a minor series like irc in rally.

[Barreis]

For me IRC calendar for next year is better then the WRC calendar..

[Rally Power]

Maybe you can tell somethiong that back up your statement? What I have heard atleast in the rally comission the opinion is that its good to have a minor series like irc in rally.

Let's face it Tomi, IRC was “minor” until this year Monte. Today it’s surpassing WRC in many aspects and has built a solid marketing value among manufacturers – just look on the UK impact of Meeke victory!

Of course IRC growth has profit from last years erratic WRC leadership, but confrontation between both series it’s not the proper answer to the sports future, especially alienating spectator’s attention (between WRC, S2000 CUP, PWRC, JWRC and Pirelli Stars, it’ll be hard to follow so many categories in 2010 world championship…).

Let's hope FIA future president – Mr. Todt, more likely – will find a way to turn both series complementary and not rival!

[noel157]

Let's face it Tomi, IRC was “minor” until this year Monte. Today it’s surpassing WRC in many aspects and has built a solid marketing value among manufacturers – just look on the UK impact of Meeke victory!

Of course IRC growth has profit from last years erratic WRC leadership, but confrontation between both series it’s not the proper answer to the sports future, especially alienating spectator’s attention (between WRC, S2000 CUP, PWRC, JWRC and Pirelli Stars, it’ll be hard to follow so many categories in 2010 world championship…).

Let's hope FIA future president – Mr. Todt, more likely – will find a way to turn both series complementary and not rival!

+1 100%. Well said, bravo.

[Tomi]

Let's face it Tomi, IRC was “minor” until this year Monte. Today it’s surpassing WRC in many aspects and has built a solid marketing value among manufacturers – just look on the UK impact of Meeke victory!

Of course IRC growth has profit from last years erratic WRC leadership, but confrontation between both series it’s not the proper answer to the sports future, especially alienating spectator’s attention (between WRC, S2000 CUP, PWRC, JWRC and Pirelli Stars, it’ll be hard to follow so many categories in 2010 world championship…).

Let's hope FIA future president – Mr. Todt, more likely – will find a way to turn both series complementary and not rival!

bla,bla bla, how about answering in what way is FIA trying to damage irc, you forgot that one?

[alleskids]

Forbidding S2000 cars to be homologated after 2011, so no new manufactuerer can not enter IRC, which is 2.0l normal engine, because it has to be a 1,6t engine, like the FIA's WRC cars must have. So IRC will die slowly because of outdated cars.

[oreixa]

Xavi Pons will do the series, probably with a Ford

[ProRally]

Xavi Pons will do the series, probably with a Ford

I hear same 'rumor', he would do S2000 Cup, and his team mate Spanish tarmac championship

[Buzz Lightyear]

bla,bla bla, how about answering in what way is FIA trying to damage irc, you forgot that one?

The FIA are like a big oil tanker, very slow to react.

Super 2000 was their car of choice, then IRC took the mantle and are having good success.

Super 2000 still the logical choice, but they are afraid to select this as the premium category, as it would mean manufacturers would have a straight forward choice between IRC and WRC.

If they bolt a turbo on, their cars are 'much more powerful', so they can be seen to promote the WRC, as some sort of premium class, the problem is.. only Citroen really wants to develop a car.

Apart from Ogier, who dispite never setting a fastest stage, with stages were going past his front door, won the Monte. Novikov, Gardemesiter, Duval, Mikkelson, Kresta, Conrad, all from WRC, have been comprehensive destroyed by their IRC counterparts. Some of these guys have set fastest times in WRC. Im not saying their bad drivers, it just a fact, that when all the drivers having the chance to get equal machinary, it sorts the wheat from the chaff. You cannot dimiss IRC. The have good drivers, in sensible cars, that good privateer driver can buy off the shelf.Kopecky was setting fastest times in Germany in 2006 against Loeb, Sordo and Gronholn in a Skoda WRC car, so he is a class act.

I doubt Latvala or Hirvonen would be able to match the likes of Kopecky in a Super 2000 car.

[Juha_Koo]

Apart from Ogier, who dispite never setting a fastest stage, with stages were going past his front door, won the Monte. Novikov, Gardemesiter, Duval, Mikkelson, Kresta, Conrad, all from WRC, have been comprehensive destroyed by their IRC counterparts.

I doubt Latvala or Hirvonen would be able to match the likes of Kopecky in a Super 2000 car.

Hahahahaha. I'm laughing my *ss of. :D

Gardemeister, Duval and Mikkelssen have had poor cars. I think we don't have to even talk about Condrad. Novikov... Crashing out.

Even a mediocre WRC driver (like Henning for example) would kick the h*ll out of IRC drivers. I'm 100% sure.

IRC is a nice series, but make no mistake, only very very few of them are match to the "big boys". Especially on gravel. Only Hänninen would have some chanches.

[pettersolberg29]

Apart from Ogier, who dispite never setting a fastest stage, with stages were going past his front door, won the Monte. Novikov, Gardemesiter, Duval, Mikkelson, Kresta, Conrad, all from WRC, have been comprehensive destroyed by their IRC counterparts. Some of these guys have set fastest times in WRC. Im not saying their bad drivers, it just a fact, that when all the drivers having the chance to get equal machinary, it sorts the wheat from the chaff. You cannot dimiss IRC. The have good drivers, in sensible cars, that good privateer driver can buy off the shelf.Kopecky was setting fastest times in Germany in 2006 against Loeb, Sordo and Gronholn in a Skoda WRC car, so he is a class act.


That's a very good point - Ogier and Sarrazin were the only WRC people who were considerably faster than the IRC regulars - and that's only at Monte Carlo. For the rest of the year the guest drivers you mentioned were destroyed (Mikkelsen had a much worse car though).

I don't know or understand all these technical regulations etc. but to me it makes perfect sense to create a championship of both WRC and IRC - everyone in a S2000 and all the manufacturers of both series competing together with all the best drivers. Are there any arguments against this?

[Tomi]

The FIA are like a big oil tanker, very slow to react.

Super 2000 was their car of choice, then IRC took the mantle and are having good success.

Super 2000 still the logical choice, but they are afraid to select this as the premium category, as it would mean manufacturers would have a straight forward choice between IRC and WRC.

If they bolt a turbo on, their cars are 'much more powerful', so they can be seen to promote the WRC, as some sort of premium class, the problem is.. only Citroen really wants to develop a car.

Apart from Ogier, who dispite never setting a fastest stage, with stages were going past his front door, won the Monte. Novikov, Gardemesiter, Duval, Mikkelson, Kresta, Conrad, all from WRC, have been comprehensive destroyed by their IRC counterparts. Some of these guys have set fastest times in WRC. Im not saying their bad drivers, it just a fact, that when all the drivers having the chance to get equal machinary, it sorts the wheat from the chaff. You cannot dimiss IRC. The have good drivers, in sensible cars, that good privateer driver can buy off the shelf.Kopecky was setting fastest times in Germany in 2006 against Loeb, Sordo and Gronholn in a Skoda WRC car, so he is a class act.

I doubt Latvala or Hirvonen would be able to match the likes of Kopecky in a Super 2000 car.

Lol, nice outburst, very amusing, but why did you quote me, if you are not able to answer the question?

[pettersolberg29]

Even a mediocre WRC driver (like Henning for example) would kick the h*ll out of IRC drivers. I'm 100% sure.

IRC is a nice series, but make no mistake, only very very few of them are match to the "big boys". Especially on gravel. Only Hänninen would have some chanches.

No way - Meeke, Kopecky, Hanninen are all better than Henning - especially as an all-round driver including tarmac, gravel and snow. Even Vouilloz, Basso and some of the part-timers like Duval, Sarrazin and Rossetti would beat drivers like Wilson, Henning, Conrad, Novikov etc. (not saying much though...)

[Buzz Lightyear]

Lol, nice outburst, very amusing, but why did you quote me, if you are not able to answer the question?

You were looking an answer as to why FIA would like to reduce IRC, and I gave you the following reason.

Super 2000 still the logical choice, but they are afraid to select this as the premium category, as it would mean manufacturers would have a straight forward choice between IRC and WRC.

Amusing to you Toni, but what I said based on fact. FIA want to keep WRC as a premier class, and are trying to find a way of doing it, without doing to strickingly obvious, and using S2000 cars, IRC drivers are more than equal to their WRC compatriats, and last but not least.. Fins wouldn't be able to drive Super 2000 cars very fast...

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hahahahaha. I'm laughing my *ss of. :D

.

Henning Solberg can beat Kopecky and Meeke???! You must be joking... surely?

[Tomi]

You were looking an answer as to why FIA would like to reduce IRC, and I gave you the following reason.

Super 2000 still the logical choice, but they are afraid to select this as the premium category, as it would mean manufacturers would have a straight forward choice between IRC and WRC.

Amusing to you Toni, but what I was based on fact.

The manufacturers still have the same choise nothing about that is changed, you forgot to mention that Conrad, a guy who will never win a WRC rally, won his first irc rally he did drive and Gardemeister was close to win Monte in a Fiat that worked ok 1 day in the whole rally, but nice try.

[Buzz Lightyear]

The manufacturers still have the same choise nothing about that is changed, you forgot to mention that Conrad, a guy who will never win a WRC rally, won his first irc rally he did drive and Gardemeister was close to win Monte in a Fiat that worked ok 1 day in the whole rally, but nice try.

you have lowered your arguement to spliting hairs about which events Conrad did when the championship was in its infancy.

good to see your only quoting me on parts of my posts that you try and agrue with.

[Barreis]

The thing is that "Eurosport Events" is much better promoter of rally sport then the current WRC promoter. North TV can not make live show 'cos nobody wants to buy live WRC show. Very sad. That's why S2000 came in big spot. "Eurosport Events" started WTCC and they don't care if it is live or not. But 'cos they can do it why not to be live show. That's it. Hanninen with the good WRC car (and experience) could be podium driver..

[Tomi]

you have lowered your arguement to spliting hairs about which events Conrad did when the championship was in its infancy.

good to see your only quoting me on parts of my posts that you try and agrue with.

so you have no real answer to the question? You just wanted to promote irc, its ok, some people like to spectate 9 div football too.

[Mirek]

Is it nercessary to ruin every thread by the same crapy disputation?

[Tomi]

]Is it nercessary to ruin every thread by the same crapy disputation?

You are right, this tread is about S2000 World Rally Cup, and has nothing to do with irc.

[Mirek]

Let's get back to the topic. Are particular WRC Cup rulles already known and available? I haven't found them...

[noel157]

Hahahahaha. I'm laughing my *ss of. :D


Even a mediocre WRC driver (like Henning for example) would kick the h*ll out of IRC drivers. I'm 100% sure.

IRC is a nice series, but make no mistake, only very very few of them are match to the "big boys". Especially on gravel. Only Hänninen would have some chanches.

What planet are you on? You really think Henning is faster than Kopecky and Meeke? And Hanninen night only have a chance? Crazy. Not even on gravel never mind asphalt.

On topic no Mirek as far as I'm aware rules are regulations haven't been released (other than the basic entry criteria which has already been changed). I wonder if Paris has even got around to discussing the rules yet? As Buzz said, oil tanker speed and neutral seem to be the only 2 speeds in the FIA gearbox.

[JFL]

I don't know if I'm off topic, but.. Henning, was allways better or equal to Petter... But he allways cared to help his competitors more... Same with Expert... He has to finnish every rally to get his sponsors on TV( a little drawback).... and testing? He does'nt even know what that is.... I feel really sorry for Henning.. putting all that sponsor-money into a B-car.. without any testing..
Remember how well PG did in Rally Norway in a Skoda? Well Both Henning and PG raced a Skoda in the Norwegian championship before RN!.. Henning was faster until the car broke down...

[VFTS]

I don't know if I'm off topic, but.. Henning, was allways better or equal to Petter... But he allways cared to help his competitors more... Same with Expert... He has to finnish every rally to get his sponsors on TV( a little drawback).... and testing? He does'nt even know what that is.... I feel really sorry for Henning.. putting all that sponsor-money into a B-car.. without any testing..
Remember how well PG did in Rally Norway in a Skoda? Well Both Henning and PG raced a Skoda in the Norwegian championship before RN!.. Henning was faster until the car broke down...


I agree in what you say, but Henning and PG just met once in each Fabia WRC and that was in the small Romjulsrally and not in a championshipevent.

PG did some championshipevent later in the winterseason.

[RS]

Hahahahaha. I'm laughing my *ss of. :D

Gardemeister, Duval and Mikkelssen have had poor cars.


Duval and Gardemeister both drove the Punto which in the right hands is still capable of winning in IRC.


Even a mediocre WRC driver (like Henning for example) would kick the h*ll out of IRC drivers. I'm 100% sure.

Hmmm, somebody on this forum said the same about Conrad before Azores this year and he was slower than all the IRC regulars, by quite a considerable margin.

Unfortunately some people on this forum (especially Finns it seems) seem to have some superiority complex about WRC drivers (ie. they are in WRC so therefore they must be the best) but if you really look into the actual evidence the story is rather different.

Sorry to continue to dirty this thead with this discussion, but I thought it was worth a reply, and besides there is no actual news about WRC Cup to talk about anyway yet :)

[AndyRAC]

Duval and Gardemeister both drove the Punto which in the right hands is still capable of winning in IRC.



Hmmm, somebody on this forum said the same about Conrad before Azores this year and he was slower than all the IRC regulars, by quite a considerable margin.

Unfortunately some people on this forum (especially Finns it seems) seem to have some superiority complex about WRC drivers (ie. they are in WRC so therefore they must be the best) but if you really look into the actual evidence the story is rather different.

Sorry to continue to dirty this thead with this discussion, but I thought it was worth a reply, and besides there is no actual news about WRC Cup to talk about anyway yet :)

It's not just the WRC drivers, it the whole WRC - as though it's sacrosanct. Nothing should/could be allowed to threaten it. It's a bit different for Finns, no matter how bad the WRC is, it will always get a following in Finland - other countries don't. Reality needs to be faced - the IRC is doing more things right than the WRC, not that it's perfect. Just rubbishing it out of blind loyalty to the WRC is short sighted.

[ProRally]

It's not just the WRC drivers, it the whole WRC - as though it's sacrosanct. Nothing should/could be allowed to threaten it. It's a bit different for Finns, no matter how bad the WRC is, it will always get a following in Finland - other countries don't. Reality needs to be faced - the IRC is doing more things right than the WRC, not that it's perfect. Just rubbishing it out of blind loyalty to the WRC is short sighted.

2010 could be the decisive year for WRC and IRC, I think 1 will 'survive' the other will fade away.... question now is which one ;)

[pettersolberg29]

The IRC will win, I'm reluctant to say. The UK will get behind the IRC if Meeke is still a winner next year, and the inclusion of San Remo and Monte Carlo especially give it a headstart. I hope 2011 brings the comeback of a hugely entertaining and succesful WRC.
I suspect I'll be disappointd though...

[Juha_Koo]

Duval and Gardemeister both drove the Punto which in the right hands is still capable of winning in IRC.



Hmmm, somebody on this forum said the same about Conrad before Azores this year and he was slower than all the IRC regulars, by quite a considerable margin.

Unfortunately some people on this forum (especially Finns it seems) seem to have some superiority complex about WRC drivers (ie. they are in WRC so therefore they must be the best) but if you really look into the actual evidence the story is rather different.

Sorry to continue to dirty this thead with this discussion, but I thought it was worth a reply, and besides there is no actual news about WRC Cup to talk about anyway yet :)

Three wins in two seasons for Abarth... (Scotland to go this season though) Not exactly the best car out there. Opel then again just started development.

Condrad is not a mediocre WRC driver. I'd say mediocre WRC drivers would be Henning, Atkinson, Ogier and Aava. All of them are capable to very good results but not wins. So actually they're not so "mediocre" after all, but something in between of the top guys and the tourists.

I don't have any complex with anybody. :) If Kopecky, Meeke, etc. are so damn good drivers, why haven't thay delivered good results in WRC? Jouhki has said it out loud that he didn't see any special potential in Meeke after checking out some UK drivers.

What actual evidence? The fact is, that IRC guys would be fighting for places five to seven on a WRC event in a WRC car.

Here is some "actual evidence" for you: Freddy Loix spent ten years in WRC and achieved three podiums, no wins. Now he has spent three years in IRC and has achieved six podiums, three of which are wins. Do I need to say more?

IRC television broadcasting is somewhat confusing. In some rallies you have hours of great live pictures. In others, there's just a 30-minute review that isn't match to the WRC reviews (atleast in Finland). The narrator keeps talking nonstop. Not much onboards, no "action videos" in the internet like WRC (.com) has. I just don't get the same immersion level in IRC that what in WRC. Those poor S2000s struggling to get out of the hairpins on tarmac. Raw, although a bit bland, WRC cars again...Jesus Christ.

I'm completely fed up with this fighting over IRC and WRC. Mirek said it well. But I'll fight for WRC and my opinions every time someone treats me like a rally infidel when I say I prefer WRC over IRC.

[RS]

I'm completely fed up with this fighting over IRC and WRC.

Then don't poke the fire with comments such as those at post #47!

I think people are frustrated with the lack of depth of competition in WRC at the moment and I think it's perfectly valid to discuss the merits of various drivers from different series. But I myself get fed up with people rubbishing the drivers from IRC based on nothing more than nationalistic bias, or some perceived 'sacred' status for WRC.

I tend to agree with you that the best IRC drivers would generally slot in between the 4 works drivers in WRC and the M2 drivers, perhaps slightly better on some events/surfaces, on some slightly worse.

If we ever do get more manufacturers in WRC then IRC is probably where they should be looking for drivers, there is nowhere else at the moment.

[Barreis]

2010 could be the decisive year for WRC and IRC, I think 1 will 'survive' the other will fade away.... question now is which one ;)

What for? Eurosport Events can organise IRC how long they want..

[Tomi]

2010 could be the decisive year for WRC and IRC, I think 1 will 'survive' the other will fade away.... question now is which one ;)

I dont think so, irc will survive as long they have eurosport support, and because eurosport has lost all top motorsport rights its likely they try to keep irc atleast for some time, even they loose still huge money.
But i dont belive irc will become anything more than what it is now, not a single profile driver is interested in irc, that already tells about the respect for it.
If you look with a little longer perspective you remember for sure that there has been problems before in WRC as well, but always there has become a solution, ok now we have this economic recession, so it might take some time, but sooner or later.

[alleskids]

What for? Eurosport Events can organise IRC how long they want..

But the IRC needs competitive cars which are available for privateers, because that is what separates IRC from WRC, which is dominated by 2 factory Ford and 2 factory Citroens, the rest is paying specatators sitting first rang. The FIA want the S2000 to die after 2011 when their supercar is the car to have. IRC needs that cars, but wil the manufactueres give the real cars to privateers, including preparing the engine and latest specifications?

[Wim_Impreza]

Three wins in two seasons for Abarth... (Scotland to go this season though) Not exactly the best car out there. Opel then again just started development.

Condrad is not a mediocre WRC driver. I'd say mediocre WRC drivers would be Henning, Atkinson, Ogier and Aava. All of them are capable to very good results but not wins. So actually they're not so "mediocre" after all, but something in between of the top guys and the tourists.

I don't have any complex with anybody. :) If Kopecky, Meeke, etc. are so damn good drivers, why haven't thay delivered good results in WRC? Jouhki has said it out loud that he didn't see any special potential in Meeke after checking out some UK drivers.

What actual evidence? The fact is, that IRC guys would be fighting for places five to seven on a WRC event in a WRC car.

Here is some "actual evidence" for you: Freddy Loix spent ten years in WRC and achieved three podiums, no wins. Now he has spent three years in IRC and has achieved six podiums, three of which are wins. Do I need to say more?

IRC television broadcasting is somewhat confusing. In some rallies you have hours of great live pictures. In others, there's just a 30-minute review that isn't match to the WRC reviews (atleast in Finland). The narrator keeps talking nonstop. Not much onboards, no "action videos" in the internet like WRC (.com) has. I just don't get the same immersion level in IRC that what in WRC. Those poor S2000s struggling to get out of the hairpins on tarmac. Raw, although a bit bland, WRC cars again...Jesus Christ.

I'm completely fed up with this fighting over IRC and WRC. Mirek said it well. But I'll fight for WRC and my opinions every time someone treats me like a rally infidel when I say I prefer WRC over IRC.

Atkinson and Ogier are top drivers in my opinion. In a poor Impreza, Atkinson had a lot of podiums last year. Ogier has learned a lot of his mistakes in the first part of the year and has improved his speed.

Kopecký had never a real good car and chance in the WRC. His results in a private Fabia WRC were good. He was with a private car faster in 2006 and 2007 than the works Fabia's in 2004 and 2005 and the Red Bull Fabia's in 2006. Kopecký had more points than Duval (also in Fabia WRC) in 2006.

Meeke was always very fast in JWRC and had only a few outings in a World Rally Car and did good in that car too. Meeke was clearly the fastest in the Irish Tarmac Championship when he drove there in an Impreza WRC. Unfortunately he was never in a works WRC. I am sure both Kopecký and Meeke should go very fast in a works car in the World Rally Championship. In my opinion, they are good enough to have a factory drive in the World Rally Championship in the future.

I agree that S2000's are boring to watch when they come out of a hairpin, but in IRC you don't know the winner before the event and there are much more than 2 or 3 man who can win an event.

Freddy Loix made some mistakes, as example when he goes from Toyota to Mitsubishi and when he signed a Peugeot contract for 2004.

Sorry for this off topic.

[Tomi]

Freddy Loix made some mistakes, as example when he goes from Toyota to Mitsubishi and when he signed a Peugeot contract for 2004.
true, life is much easier if you choose a team, with slower drivers than you self :)

[Barreis]

Loix made some money.. Today maybe 3 drivers are earning money and the rest are paying..

[Sulland]

Will this cup go live ?

Still no one has said for certain that they will drive.
The only thing we know is that Ford will support this one and not IRC.

Still no Yes's to the Cup - am I right ?

[Mirek]

It's no wonder that there is nothing about drivers when there are no rulles. That's a bit normal about everything run by FIA :(

Ford will be in IRC. Not as M-Sport works team but will be there, don't worry.

[Buzz Lightyear]

But the IRC needs competitive cars which are available for privateers, because that is what separates IRC from WRC, which is dominated by 2 factory Ford and 2 factory Citroens, the rest is paying specatators sitting first rang. The FIA want the S2000 to die after 2011 when their supercar is the car to have. IRC needs that cars, but wil the manufactueres give the real cars to privateers, including preparing the engine and latest specifications?

IRC can run whatever cars it decides. If thats a 1.6T in 2011, then so be it. This Super 2000 Cup is only a knee jerk reaction to IRC anyway.

[Barreis]

IRC is doing with cars homologated by FIA.. So nobody has to worry..

[bluuford]

In GPWeek Armindo says that his target is to compete in S2000 WRC cup in 2010. He likes to do it with Skoda but Peugeot and Ford are also options. He is not very enthusiastic about Peugeot somehow.

[MJW]

Reported in UK publication Motorsport News, 14th Oct that Andreas Mikkelssen could be in an S2000 Fiesta in 2010, either in S2K cup of WRC or IRC series. In talks with Malcolm is what the story said.

[noel157]

Reported in UK publication Motorsport News, 14th Oct that Andreas Mikkelssen could be in an S2000 Fiesta in 2010, either in S2K cup of WRC or IRC series. In talks with Malcolm is what the story said.

He's tried the Corsa, the Fabia this weekend and is now looking at the Fiesta, that leaves the 207 which I don't think he's driven (yet)?

[Sulland]

He's tried the Corsa, the Fabia this weekend and is now looking at the Fiesta, that leaves the 207 which I don't think he's driven (yet)?

So he has driven the quickest and slowest S2000 as of today, so he will have a pretty good picture to backbrief the M-Sport team, since I guess he will take the Fiesta for a spin ! Maybe he should test a 207 and a Proton as well to have the complete picture. But it is not easy for the privately developed cars to match those developed by factories with a ton of experience !!

I had faith in the Proton, but without factory money for development, it is hard to get the last 10ths pr km to compete !

[MJW]

Mikkelse tested the Proton earlier this year. There were photos around the internet at the time. I forget which sites had them.

[Sulland]

Mikkelse tested the Proton earlier this year. There were photos around the internet at the time. I forget which sites had them.

You are right of course, getting old - so :grenade: :D

[VFTS]

Mikkelsen, Proton test:

http://www.rallyprint.com/gallery/?level=album&id=72&plog_page=1

[M5]

Do we have any confirmed teams/drivers for this cup for 2010 ?

[Josti]

Do we have any confirmed teams/drivers for this cup for 2010 ?

I'm assuming both Janne Tuohino and Xavier Pons are confirmed with a Ford Fiesta S2000. Other than that, I'm not aware of yet.

[Simmi]

Really really crossing all fingers and toes that we get lots of strong entries for this next year. Pons and Tuohino is a good start. It would be good to see drivers who maybe cant quite scrap together a WRC budget taking a punt on this.

A competitive S2000 battle plus the WRC works team usual suspects would make the championship a bit more bearable next year.

[PLuto]

I would like to see drivers with S2000 rather in IRC than in this cup...

[Buzz Lightyear]

I would like to see drivers with S2000 rather in IRC than in this cup...

Why, you will get 10% of the coverage you would otherwise get on Eurosport? Or maybe this is what you mean? :)

[Sulland]

Why, you will get 10% of the coverage you would otherwise get on Eurosport? Or maybe this is what you mean? :)


What coverage; if you are not among the top 3-4, you get practically no tv coverage, and if you drive P or JWRC you get nothing on the normal coverage that either Eurosport or the national networks get from ISC. So compared to that, the live coverage ++ that IRC does is not bad for most drivers and their sponsors.

The only issue is that you do not participate in a World Championship, but that is a matter of time before IRC get more news coverage. If MIkkelsen start to do well in IRC, more norwegians will start to follow IRC, and then the media will start to cover more IRC.

So for a driver planning to do a S2000 campaign, I would go for IRC instead of the WCup.
The winners take it all here as well, and the Winners in WRC will always be the A8 boys !

[DonJippo]

What coverage; if you are not among the top 3-4, you get practically no tv coverage, and if you drive P or JWRC you get nothing on the normal coverage that either Eurosport or the national networks get from ISC.

There are separate reviews for both JWRC and PWRC available from ISC it's more a question of your own national broadcaster to decide to either air them or not. For example over here they did show those reviews so both JWRC and PWRC got TV-time during the season.

[Wim_Impreza]

There are separate reviews for both JWRC and PWRC available from ISC it's more a question of your own national broadcaster to decide to either air them or not. For example over here they did show those reviews so both JWRC and PWRC got TV-time during the season.

In Belgium, there was never a tv show about JWRC or PWRC. That is logical, we all know how popular rally in Finland is. It seems there even won't be reviews of WRC in 2010 on Eurosport here.

The IRC has a pretty good coverage in Belgium. It is not only on Eurosport, but also on the Belgian TV just after the event finished. The coverage in newspapers of IRC is not bad here and there is almost nothing about the WRC.

A driver with a S2000 will get much more coverage with an IRC program than with a S2000 Cup program, especially in Belgium, Netherlands, Czech Republic, Poland, Great Britain / Ireland / Scotland...

[bluuford]

In Belgium, there was never a tv show about JWRC or PWRC. That is logical, we all know how popular rally in Finland is. It seems there even won't be reviews of WRC in 2010 on Eurosport here.

The IRC has a pretty good coverage in Belgium. It is not only on Eurosport, but also on the Belgian TV just after the event finished. The coverage in newspapers of IRC is not bad here and there is almost nothing about the WRC.

In Estonia IRC coverage is blank "0" Only in Eurosport. But often during very late night and I assume that there might be less than 100 people who are watching it (We are +1 hour compared to Central Europe), and often delayed (thanks to snooker or smth). But in Eurosport they are also showing mainly only top IRC drivers. If you bother then you can find some broadcast from internet, but often it says that it is not allowed for our zone. There has been only twice news in Estonian newspapers in last year, when Koitla became 6th in Scotland and when he was 8th in Russia. They even haven't written who was the champion while Loeb was on the front page on the main daily newspaper.

There are always news about WRC in newspapers. You can watch daily reviews in Eurosport and in Motors TV you can follow JWRC and PWRC separate broadcast.

As far as I understood there will be separate show for S2000 cup as well.

In Conclusion: In Northern Europe you have to take great effort to follow IRC, therefore it is not very popular here. WRC has much better coverage here and in much better time as well and you can just click your remote control on you can see it.

It is more expensive to travel to IRC events. Most of them are concentrated to very small area in central and western Europe.

[Sardalense]

Bernardo Sousa will drive a Fiesta S2000 in 2010.

http://www.autoportal.iol.pt/noticias/desporto/ralis-bernardo-sousa-confirma-presenca-no-mundial-de-2010

[Juha_Koo]

In Estonia IRC coverage is blank "0" Only in Eurosport. But often during very late night and I assume that there might be less than 100 people who are watching it (We are +1 hour compared to Central Europe), and often delayed (thanks to snooker or smth). But in Eurosport they are also showing mainly only top IRC drivers. If you bother then you can find some broadcast from internet, but often it says that it is not allowed for our zone. There has been only twice news in Estonian newspapers in last year, when Koitla became 6th in Scotland and when he was 8th in Russia. They even haven't written who was the champion while Loeb was on the front page on the main daily newspaper.

There are always news about WRC in newspapers. You can watch daily reviews in Eurosport and in Motors TV you can follow JWRC and PWRC separate broadcast.

As far as I understood there will be separate show for S2000 cup as well.

In Conclusion: In Northern Europe you have to take great effort to follow IRC, therefore it is not very popular here. WRC has much better coverage here and in much better time as well and you can just click your remote control on you can see it.

It is more expensive to travel to IRC events. Most of them are concentrated to very small area in central and western Europe.

:up: Excellent post.

[Buzz Lightyear]

You have to make a great effort to watch Eurosport for IRC, but not make such a great effort to watch Eurosport for WRC? In UK, IRC has well surpassed WRC this year, and have even rivalled F1

[RS]

You have to make a great effort to watch Eurosport for IRC, but not make such a great effort to watch Eurosport for WRC? In UK, IRC has well surpassed WRC this year, and have even rivalled F1

I think it all depends on what drivers are in the championship, ie. British drivers = British coverage.

As you say, this year IRC has been covered quite a lot by the motorsport press, and even sometimes in the national press.

As for Loeb being on the front page of a daily newspaper here in the UK, forget it. Most will have just given a brief mention to his title in a paragraph in the sports pages, if that.

The key point that IRC has over S2000 Cup is that a driver can fight for overall events wins, not just some sub-category of WRC.

[Simmi]

You have to make a great effort to watch Eurosport for IRC, but not make such a great effort to watch Eurosport for WRC? In UK, IRC has well surpassed WRC this year, and have even rivalled F1

Not sure I entirely agree with this. On the Scottish round the Motorsport press jumped all over the battle of the Brits. It was hyped up a lot because mainly I think people wanted an excuse to go back to the old Colin/Richard type stuff. Apparently UK rallying is in a strong place again right now which I don't think is the case at all. I dont think these few weeks in the sun meant it really surpassed the WRC.

And as for it rivalling F1. Not even close unfortunately. It is interesting though to hear how some countries have Loeb on the their main newspapers. That is just unimaginable for me as a UK resident.

[cali]

You have to make a great effort to watch Eurosport for IRC, but not make such a great effort to watch Eurosport for WRC? In UK, IRC has well surpassed WRC this year, and have even rivalled F1

Good post! I don't understand Bluuford this time. Both series are shown ONLY in Eurosport - IRC is even sometimes live but for WRC we have to see that crappy coverage where commentators try to pretend that this is happening LIVE! Estonian channels haven't shown WRC for years, it takes about the same effort to see both of the series. Newspapers are for rallying "dumbusers" - often reporters are getting even the most simple facts wrong and I do get a good laugh now and then at the reporters. Too shallow for me!

[bluuford]

Good post! I don't understand Bluuford this time. Both series are shown ONLY in Eurosport - IRC is even sometimes live but for WRC we have to see that crappy coverage where commentators try to pretend that this is happening LIVE! Estonian channels haven't shown WRC for years, it takes about the same effort to see both of the series. Newspapers are for rallying "dumbusers" - often reporters are getting even the most simple facts wrong and I do get a good laugh now and then at the reporters. Too shallow for me!

I was talking that I can watch PWRC and JWRC show from MOTORS TV exactly on the right time. And some times this year there was WRC show at 00:30 AM and after that at 01:00 IRC coverage.

All I want to say that I can see more cars and more different shows from driving in WRC series in tv than it is the case in IRC unfortunately.


And that stupid text that they are putting on the newspapers.. I dont read those as well, but its important for the sponsors to get some coverage on daily newspapers. Normal readers does not care about the fact that most of the facts are incorrect :-) But they still notice that there was a beautiful Red Citroen and Red Bull logo and when they go shopping.. You know the theory :-)

[Simmi]

Autosport magazine today says Martin Prokop is entering the S2000 cup AND the IRC next year!

It says he is currently decideing whether to use a Fabia or a Fiesta.

[Mirek]

Prokop usualy says something different in each interview but hey, it may be that way :)

[RS]

Autosport magazine today says Martin Prokop is entering the S2000 cup AND the IRC next year!

It says he is currently decideing whether to use a Fabia or a Fiesta.

Keep it Czech Martin :)

Will be good to see him move up from pWRC/jWRC.

[Barreis]

Prokop says it's possible to convert S2000 to WRC later..
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80540

[Simmi]

This S2000 Cup is turning into a bit of a Ford S2000 one-make Cup.

[Mirek]

Ford confirmed development of 1.6T version. That's the reason I think.

[Sulland]

Is S-WRC the new term ?
http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6619&desc=J-WRC+champion+Prokop+switches+to+S-WRC+

[Simmi]

Is S-WRC the new term ?
http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6619&desc=J-WRC+champion+Prokop+switches+to+S-WRC+

Looks like there are two names for the S2000 trophy? S2000 cup and the S(2000)-World Rally Championship? Did the second one get announced yesterday then off the back of the FIA announcement? Possibly they gave it 'World' status so it can become a recognised world title like the JWRC/PWRC.

[alleskids]

S2000 World Cup is for the team points, S-WRC is for the drivers points. They both cover the same 10 rounds (Sweden, Mexico, Jordanie, NZ, Portugal, Finland, Germany, Japan, France and Wales). Both championships are for 7 rounds counting of which two of them have to be outside Europe (Mexico, Jordan, NZ and Japan).

[RS]

How do they define a team? Manufacturer or not? Sometimes FIA's details are a little sketchy...

[alleskids]

I guess normal rally team. Nurpel Rally Team (Pons) and Jipocar Rally team (Prokop). The same 10 rallies will have 2 championship, 1 for drivers scoring points and become champion, and 1 were only the teams will be mentioned on the scoreboard.

[RS]

I guess normal rally team. Nurpel Rally Team (Pons) and Jipocar Rally team (Prokop). The same 10 rallies will have 2 championship, 1 for drivers scoring points and become champion, and 1 were only the teams will be mentioned on the scoreboard.

Ok, but how many drivers are allowed per team? 2 as per WRC?

[alleskids]

good question. I think the FIA wil tell us minutes before the Swedisch rally will start.

[bluuford]

Ok, but how many drivers are allowed per team? 2 as per WRC?

All the teams are one car teams. I red it somewhere but I dont remember where.

[RS]

All the teams are one car teams. I red it somewhere but I dont remember where.

Thanks. Bit strange, but I guess the team can change the driver during the season, although that seems unlikely with the ones announced so far.

[bluuford]

Thanks. Bit strange, but I guess the team can change the driver during the season, although that seems unlikely with the ones announced so far.
Yes, initially it was planned as one car team championship. So, for example one team sponsored by company x who is selling its products in x1..x7 countries uses local drivers under their banner. So, team gets the points. But now also driver gets points. So, that actually gives chances to the drivers who have budget only for couple of rallies. But now they found that there are many drivers that plan to do the whole championship and therefore championship for the drivers was created as well.

[ZequeArgentina]

Yes, initially it was planned as one car team championship. So, for example one team sponsored by company x who is selling its products in x1..x7 countries uses local drivers under their banner. So, team gets the points. But now also driver gets points. So, that actually gives chances to the drivers who have budget only for couple of rallies. But now they found that there are many drivers that plan to do the whole championship and therefore championship for the drivers was created as well.


Menu " a la carte"

[alleskids]

Sousa, Touhino and Pons are entered under M-Sport, and all drivers will equally be nominated for specific rallies. Sousa: "we were assured that there would always be technical equality (in equipement) and that nominations for riders to score in the championship (only one driver can score per team) would be made in accordance with the favorites of pilots taking into account the specifics of the rally."

So M-Sport is guaranteerd of at least one championship title in 2010 :) , the S-2000 World Cup

[Xsara Fan]

Who want to see the price from the team which will use in 2010 Ford Fiesta Super 2000?

S-WRC - 496.000 euro (7 rallys)
ERC - 260.000 euro (6 rallys)
IRС - 300.000 euro (7 rallys)
CIR - 172.000 euro (6 asphalt or gravel rallys of CIR/CIT)

Includes/rally:
Rally car
Experienced service Crew (5 mechanics)
Engineer (M-Sport)
Team Coordinator
Service truck
Spare parts package
Race Fuel
Race Insurance
Full Logistic support
Service book
Official Shakedown
Full rebuild before each rally (M-Sport)

Excludes/rally:
Entry fee
Tires
Recce vehicles
Excesses Franchise
Rally car decoration

[Cloverleaf]

Who want to see the price from the team which will use in 2010 Ford Fiesta Super 2000?

S-WRC - 496.000 euro (7 rallys)
ERC - 260.000 euro (6 rallys)
IRС - 300.000 euro (7 rallys)
CIR - 172.000 euro (6 asphalt or gravel rallys of CIR/CIT)

Includes/rally:
Rally car
Experienced service Crew (5 mechanics)
Engineer (M-Sport)
Team Coordinator
Service truck
Spare parts package
Race Fuel
Race Insurance
Full Logistic support
Service book
Official Shakedown
Full rebuild before each rally (M-Sport)

Excludes/rally:
Entry fee
Tires
Recce vehicles
Excesses Franchise
Rally car decoration
IRC is the most reasonable one according to those numbers...

[RS]

They are all surprisingly good prices. I understand M-Sport are doing some good deals right now to get the ball rolling...

[alterdaxter]

Who want to see the price from the team which will use in 2010 Ford Fiesta Super 2000?

S-WRC - 496.000 euro (7 rallys)
ERC - 260.000 euro (6 rallys)
IRС - 300.000 euro (7 rallys)
CIR - 172.000 euro (6 asphalt or gravel rallys of CIR/CIT)

Includes/rally:
Rally car
Experienced service Crew (5 mechanics)
Engineer (M-Sport)
Team Coordinator
Service truck
Spare parts package
Race Fuel
Race Insurance
Full Logistic support
Service book
Official Shakedown
Full rebuild before each rally (M-Sport)

Excludes/rally:
Entry fee
Tires
Recce vehicles
Excesses Franchise
Rally car decoration

What's your source and in which context did you get this information?

[Mirek]

I suppose that it was M-Sport offer to Novikov's team ;)

[Helstar]

These are excellent prices I think ... if I'm not wrong you needed 200-250.000 euro for a SINGLE rally in a WRC car ^^

[Simmi]

IRC is the most reasonable one according to those numbers...

Depends whether you want to pay a bit more and possibly be called a world champion if you take the S-WRC route.

[COD]

Who want to see the price from the team which will use in 2010 Ford Fiesta Super 2000?

S-WRC - 496.000 euro (7 rallys)
ERC - 260.000 euro (6 rallys)
IRС - 300.000 euro (7 rallys)
CIR - 172.000 euro (6 asphalt or gravel rallys of CIR/CIT)

Includes/rally:
Rally car
Experienced service Crew (5 mechanics)
Engineer (M-Sport)
Team Coordinator
Service truck
Spare parts package
Race Fuel
Race Insurance
Full Logistic support
Service book
Official Shakedown
Full rebuild before each rally (M-Sport)

Excludes/rally:
Entry fee
Tires
Recce vehicles
Excesses Franchise
Rally car decoration



I would also like to know the source for these prices, because the ones I have heard are much more...

[RS]

Depends whether you want to pay a bit more and possibly be called a world champion if you take the S-WRC route.

196,000 Euros is a lot for a name...

[bluuford]

I would also like to know the source for these prices, because the ones I have heard are much more...
What does
Excesses Franchise
means?
Does it means when you break a car then you have to pay for it?
And entry price is not included as well, that means approximately 30 000-40 000 EUR additional costs for IRC that adds 10-13%,

Then you need to rent recce car, proper tires, competition clothes+helmet, plane tickets for you and co-driver, accommodation, food. that adds approximately another 15%
So, that adds approximately 30% in case of IRC and in total it will be nearly 400 000 EUR.
In case of WRC the additions are even bigger.

[Tomi]

i dont belive for a second that those prices are correct.

[Xsara Fan]

These are excellent prices I think ... if I'm not wrong you needed 200-250.000 euro for a SINGLE rally in a WRC car ^^

In 2009 Novikov CJT program was from 140000 to 220000 euro per one rally.

[Helstar]

It's a lot :) no wonder he switched to a more affordable car ...

[Sulland]

Good news:
Eivind Brynildsen will drive a Fabia from Rene Georges in SWRC next season
Skoda Norway is part of the support/sponsor package.

He will do Rally Sweden, Mexico, Jordan, Germany, France and Wales.

He will do a coupe of Rallies in Norway as warm-up to Sweden !

Congrats Eivind and Imperatore - this will be fun to follow !

[GTA]

Good news:
Eivind Brynildsen will drive a Fabia from Rene Georges in SWRC next season
Skoda Norway is part of the support/sponsor package.

He will do Rally Sweden, Mexico, Jordan, Germany, France and Wales.

He will do a coupe of Rallies in Norway as warm-up to Sweden !

Congrats Eivind and Imperatore - this will be fun to follow !

You missed WRC Portugal.... it is 7 events + 2 in Norway... ;)

[Sulland]

You missed WRC Portugal.... it is 7 events + 2 in Norway... ;)

Hi Imperatore

Ok, but I borrowed the content from a story on www.norsk-rally.com (http://www.norsk-rally.com) that got it from a press release, but one moe is even better !

Have fun, and after seing him in Wales this year I think it will be !

[RS]

Good news, it won't be a one-make championship after all!

[Hartusvuori]

Good news, it won't be a one-make championship after all!

How many Pugs ot Abarths will run SWRC? Bets?

[Mirek]

I guess no Abarth and number of Pugs very close to zero?

[bluuford]

So, we have now six quite good drivers and at least four of them should start in Sweden.
Any news about Sandell?, Gardemeister?

[RS]

So, we have now six quite good drivers and at least four of them should start in Sweden.
Any news about Sandell?, Gardemeister?

Sandell is working on a program, I presume in S-WRC, and I presume still with Skoda which he seems happy with.

Toni is hoping to start Monte Carlo, don't know about after that.

[Mirek]

I guess Skoda from MRT could be possible through Astra Racing but it's just thinking loud without any information :)

[Sulland]

Sandell is working on a program, I presume in S-WRC, and I presume still with Skoda which he seems happy with.

Brynildsen said in an intervju last week that he was working on two possible deals. 1 RGRS, 2 team up with Sandell with RBR. Not sure if the fact that he chose RGRS has bearing on Sandell, or other factors. Time will tell !

[bluuford]

]I guess no Abarth and number of Pugs very close to zero?

There is still long time until the entry for S-WRC closes. You have to do 7 rounds and at least 2 outside Europe. So, the latest start might be Rally NZ that means we have to wait until mid April to know the full list. That is nearly four months to go.

[PLuto]

Brynildsen said in an intervju last week that he was working on two possible deals. 1 RGRS, 2 team up with Sandell with RBR. Not sure if the fact that he chose RGRS has bearing on Sandell, or other factors. Time will tell !

I think you mean BRR, not RBR ;)

[VFTS]

I think you mean BRR, not RBR ;)

The real name is BRR, but Sandell often call the team RBR(Red Bull Rally Team)

[Sulland]

I think you mean BRR, not RBR ;)

Of course my mistake !!
Last one was in 1973, so ..... :p

[Simmi]

There is still long time until the entry for S-WRC closes. You have to do 7 rounds and at least 2 outside Europe. So, the latest start might be Rally NZ that means we have to wait until mid April to know the full list. That is nearly four months to go.

Ideally wouldn't drivers need to be sorting out their programmes prior to the Jan 4 deadline? Or is it almost guaranteed that you could enter later and be allowed in?

8.2.1 In order to score points in the Support Championships, entrants must register with the FIA no later than 4 January. Later applications may be accepted subject to FIA agreement and availability.

[bluuford]

Ideally wouldn't drivers need to be sorting out their programmes prior to the Jan 4 deadline? Or is it almost guaranteed that you could enter later and be allowed in?

8.2.1 In order to score points in the Support Championships, entrants must register with the FIA no later than 4 January. Later applications may be accepted subject to FIA agreement and availability.

I think yes, it has been same for jwrc and pwrc before. Practically that means if the number of entered cars is bigger than 30 by 4th of January, then you are out. But if it is lesser, then there is no problems to join later. The most important date is related to the fact that you need to enter at least 7 rounds and two of them should be outside the Europe. So, you have to make your mind by the date when there is closing date for N-Z entries.

Of course FIA wants everybody to enter before 4th of January to see approximate number of cars and drivers. Actually they have set minimum number for each support championship, which is 10. Otherwise they might decide to cancel the championship. Last year there were 9 entries for JWRC by date and they decided it is ok. So far we have already 6 entries for S-WRC and as it is very important for future I cannot see reason for canceling this championship.

[bluuford]

What does
Excesses Franchise
means?
Does it means when you break a car then you have to pay for it?
And entry price is not included as well, that means approximately 30 000-40 000 EUR additional costs for IRC that adds 10-13%,

Then you need to rent recce car, proper tires, competition clothes+helmet, plane tickets for you and co-driver, accommodation, food. that adds approximately another 15%
So, that adds approximately 30% in case of IRC and in total it will be nearly 400 000 EUR.
In case of WRC the additions are even bigger.

I have to correct myself. With a surprise I just noticed that entry fee is cheaper in rally Sweden, compared to the Monte (When you are using S2000 car).

[Mirek]

Monte is by far the most expensive rally in IRC ;) Some rallys have 3-5x cheaper entry fee.

[pucky54]

]Monte is by far the most expensive rally in IRC ;) Some rallys have 3-5x cheaper entry fee.

sure, but what about the transport costs to Madeira or Acores?

[Francis44]

sure, but what about the transport costs to Madeira or Acores?

Transporting a car from Lisbon to Madeira and to Açores is cheaper now I think.

[RICARDO75]

sure, but what about the transport costs to Madeira or Acores?

Normaly, is about 450 euros to transport a car from Lisbon to Ponta Delgada (Açores). But for the rally is cheeper because the SATA Rally organization will rent a ferry to transport all the cars and trucks.

[RICARDO75]

sure, but what about the transport costs to Madeira or Acores?

Mireck is right.
I think that a private driver as to pay 3000 euros to race in Monte Carlo and the same driver will only pay 1000 euros, and a professional driver 2500 euros to enter in Rally Azores.

[Barreis]

Today only rich guys can drive.. And if they pay 170 euros/km off SS for S2000 car (50000 euros per IRC rally) then they don't have to worry too much about entry fee..

[Wasted Talent]

Today only rich guys can drive.. And if they pay 170 euros/km off SS for S2000 car (50000 euros per IRC rally) then they don't have to worry too much about entry fee..

Don't forget the 25000 Euro damage deposit :)

WT

[Juha_Koo]

Today only rich guys can drive..

Not really... Here in Finland there's dozens of drivers that aren't really anyhow specially wealthy but they are able to drive because they are good at getting sponsors and giving them good visibility.

As someone has said, you can do whatever you want as long as you want it hard enough.

[Tomi]

Not really... Here in Finland there's dozens of drivers that aren't really anyhow specially wealthy but they are able to drive because they are good at getting sponsors and giving them good visibility.

As someone has said, you can do whatever you want as long as you want it hard enough.

thats offcourse true, the same is in wrc too, very few uses own money to drive.

[pantealex]

So, we have now six quite good drivers and at least four of them should start in Sweden.

Brynildsen,Pons,Prokop,Sousa,Tuohino and who?

[306 Cosworth]

Can someone post up a list of the drivers who are supposed/confirmed for next season, and what cars they will be in.

[Barreis]

thats offcourse true, the same is in wrc too, very few uses own money to drive.

Hahahah.. LOL



The only flying Finn is The Ice Man at the moment.. The rest of them are French sallate..

[alleskids]

Brynildsen,Pons,Prokop,Sousa,Tuohino and who?
Al Attiyah wil also do the S-WRC in a Fiesta S2000, in combination with some IRC rounds and of the MERC. It al depends on VW, if they continue in rally raids, Al attiyah will also do tests and rally raids . So he will hardly be a day at home next year :) . He needs al least 2 Fiesta's S2000 to do a proper calender

[Simmi]

Can someone post up a list of the drivers who are supposed/confirmed for next season, and what cars they will be in.

Janne Tuohino - Ford Fiesta
Xavier Pons - Ford Fiesta
Bernardo Sousa - Ford Fiesta
Nasser Al-Attiyah - Ford Fiesta
Martin Prokop - Ford Fiesta
Eyvind Brynildsen - Skoda Fabia

So the list is solid so far but needs more guys. Hoping for some news from Sandell although I wonder if the Red Bull money has gone in the direction of Kimi now. Would be good to see more of the PWRC guys converting too if possible. It has the makings of a good fight and arguably the most prestigious of the supporting championships since 03-04 when the JWRC still meant something.

[ProRally]

Al Attiyah wil also do the S-WRC in a Fiesta S2000, in combination with some IRC rounds and of the MERC. It al depends on VW, if they continue in rally raids, Al attiyah will also do tests and rally raids . So he will hardly be a day at home next year :) . He needs al least 2 Fiesta's S2000 to do a proper calender

Are you sure about Fiesta ? Or could it be Skoda ?

Also is it sure yet that Ford will register for IRC ?

Beside his rally/rally raid stuff he still has his shooting calendar, so he was hardly home anyway.... I think he is used to it (and its his birthday today)

[alleskids]

The Ford Fiesta is sure for Al Attiyah. It is to be seen if Ford will sign up for the rival serie IRC, as a service to their custumers.

[Simmi]

The Ford Fiesta is sure for Al Attiyah. It is to be seen if Ford will sign up for the rival serie IRC, as a service to their custumers.

The fact Nasser was doing IRC confused me to be honest. I don't really see why he would need to do the extra competition on top of everything. Unless he had a burning desire to do one of the rallies? When I first saw it I thought to myself I bet he doesn't actually do any IRC.

[Simmi]

Short interview on wrc.com with Eyvind:

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6652&desc=Eyvind+Brynildsen+Q%26A+-+EXCLUSIVE+

Interesting he says he does not quite have the full budget for next season.

He also he thinks there will be about 10 drivers capable of winning the SWRC next year. So I don't know if that is him exaggerating or he knows something we don't about possible entrants.

[alleskids]

Have Henning Solberg and Expert made some decissions about the 2010 season? Eyvind Brynildsen is right in saying that in WRC every driver besides BP Ford and Red Bull Citroen is only filling up the numbers, because they don't get the smae material as the works drivers. In S-WRC everybody an fight for victory. Other names on the S200 radar are Michael Koszuiszki and Frederico Villagra.

[JFL]

[quote="alleskids"] Eyvind Brynildsen is right in saying that in WRC every driver besides BP Ford and Red Bull Citroen is only filling up the numbers, because they don't get the smae material as the works drivers.quote]
Where have I heard that before? ;)

[JFL]

Eyvind Brynildsen is right in saying that in WRC every driver besides BP Ford and Red Bull Citroen is only filling up the numbers, because they don't get the smae material as the works drivers.
Where have I heard that before? ;)

[alleskids]

... from Petter S? :)

[br21]

Other names on the S2000 radar are Michael Koszuiszki (...)

Car not yet decided, I think he tested all options except Punto already. He should have good financial background in polish petrol company.

[Simmi]

Other names on the S2000 radar are Michael Koszuiszki and Federico Villagra.

I'm sure Autosport reported this week that Federico was again doing rounds in the Focus WRC.

[alleskids]

Argentina sites say he might switch from Focus WRC to Fiesta S2000 later in the year.

[Mirek]

Car not yet decided, I think he tested all options except Punto already. He should have good financial background in polish petrol company.


I think that noone except M-Sport drivers tested Fiesta. I'm sure martin Prokop didin't and I'm almost sure noone else did.

[br21]

OK, so my mistake. He said in an interview that he plans to test Fiesta in December.

[306 Cosworth]

Can't believe the amount of Fiestas that are going to be out next year considering it's an unproven car. Think those 5 guys in the list above are taking a big risk!

[Mirek]

Considering very interesting financial aspect of M-Sport offer and their reputation I can understand that it worth some risk ;)

[Tomi]

Can't believe the amount of Fiestas that are going to be out next year considering it's an unproven car.

Thats propably the reason why there is so many, the more cars there is the more info they get.

[306 Cosworth]

True Tomi, but i'd at least use a different car until any small problems had been ironed out. I guess that's why M-Sport have been testing this car like mad though so there's nothing wrong with it when the customers get their cars.

[Tomi]

True Tomi, but i'd at least use a different car until any small problems had been ironed out. I guess that's why M-Sport have been testing this car like mad though so there's nothing wrong with it when the customers get their cars.

yes sure, I dont think it will take so long until they are on par with the cars now considered the most competitive in S2000.

[Simmi]

To be honest I'd buy one just for how nice it looks. But M-Sport's current setup have been designing/building cars that are fast out of the box. I don't see it as too bigger risk.

[306 Cosworth]

I guess we will just have to wait for Monte Carlo to see its true pace. Were the times from Rally Scotland ever released? Would be good to see how MW compared to KM and GW.

[Juha_Koo]

I guess we will just have to wait for Monte Carlo to see its true pace. Were the times from Rally Scotland ever released? Would be good to see how MW compared to KM and GW.

MW is MW... Luckily Mikko will show the car's real pace in RMC. I hope that the car is very fast out of the box. Actually it has to be, I have bet that Mikko wins Monte Carlo. M-Sport and Mikko won't let me down. :D

[bluuford]

MW is MW... Luckily Mikko will show the car's real pace in RMC. I hope that the car is very fast out of the box. Actually it has to be, I have bet that Mikko wins Monte Carlo. M-Sport and Mikko won't let me down. :D

The last thing I would do is to bet on RMC winner:-) This event is so unpredictable that even our Mr Machine has went of on that rally and retired as a result.

[mm1]

Wasn`t it superrallied instead of retired?

[Simmi]

Wasn`t it superrallied instead of retired?

Yeah he still finished in second place! So hardly a bad result. But I suppose the point is that he was caught out by the rally/condtions.

[br21]

Michal Kosciuszko have a new team: Dynamic Word Rally Team. They will be entered both in SWRC and WRC Cup. Main sponsor is Lotos - polish petroleum company. Car not yet known. Official presentation planned before first start in Mexico.

[Ucci]

To predict a winner in a Monte Carlo is really risky business. Turn the memory eleven months back.....Anyway, Mikko is-considering his skills-first favorite.

[bluuford]

Wasn`t it superrallied instead of retired?

yeah, in my mind superrallead is the same as retired.

[PLuto]

The fact Nasser was doing IRC confused me to be honest. I don't really see why he would need to do the extra competition on top of everything. Unless he had a burning desire to do one of the rallies? When I first saw it I thought to myself I bet he doesn't actually do any IRC.

He will do IRC events in 2010. Believe me...

[ProRally]

He will do IRC events in 2010. Believe me...

Yes some, not all....

[alleskids]

Ford Spain and Nupel Rally Team will have a close working relation next year, under the guidance of Luis Moya. Xavier Pons and Alex Haro will do the S-WRC, in a Ford Fiesta S2000, while the team will also field 2 Ford Fiesta S2000's in the Spanisch rally championship, defending their title, for Sergio Vallejo / Diego Vallejo and Álvaro Muñiz / César Blanco, plus 2 Fiesta R2's for Suria Marta/Sonia Lopez and Adrián Díaz/Mario Thomas.
Plus Luis Moya will start a training schoool for rally drivers/navigators

[alleskids]

and one from the front

[grugsticles]

Ford Spain and Nupel Rally Team will have a close working relation next year, under the guidance of Luis Moya. Xavier Pons and Alex Haro will do the S-WRC, in a Ford Fiesta S2000, while the team will also field 2 Ford Fiesta S2000's in the Spanisch rally championship, defending their title, for Sergio Vallejo / Diego Vallejo and Álvaro Muñiz / César Blanco, plus 2 Fiesta R2's for Suria Marta/Sonia Lopez and Adrián Díaz/Mario Thomas.
Plus Luis Moya will start a training schoool for rally drivers/navigators
That looks hot!

[RICARDO75]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ft7TgGoxwak/SzNSDwulKtI/AAAAAAAAD5M/Oc9IohNdPhk/s400/800FordFiestaS2000NUPEL_lateral.jpg

[Sulland]

Rumors on norwegian news today that Andreas Mikkelsen is close to a deal with a Ford Fiesta for S-WRC.
http://translate.google.no/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrksport.no%2Fmotorsp ort%2Frally-vm%2F1.6922433&sl=no&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Would have preferred to see him in IRC in a Skoda, but I guess he has a long term plan with Ford.

Good luck anyway !

[ProRally]

M.Wilson's visits to LOTS of people are seeming to pay off... he has been knocking on many doors to sell the Fiesta's !!
With S-WRC growing so strong, how many will start in PWRC 2010 and JWRC 2010 ?

[Buzz Lightyear]

M.Wilson's visits to LOTS of people are seeming to pay off... he has been knocking on many doors to sell the Fiesta's !!
With S-WRC growing so strong, how many will start in PWRC 2010 and JWRC 2010 ?

Welcome to the one-make championship Andreas.

[Camelopard]

Welcome to the one-make championship Andreas.


Well citroen and peugeot with not more than a little help from french tax payers have had their chance......... :) :) :)

[Wasted Talent]

To predict a winner in a Monte Carlo is really risky business. Turn the memory eleven months back.....Anyway, Mikko is-considering his skills-first favorite.

Absolutely - Hirvonen's performance will tell you little about the Fiesta's pace - unless he is slow. He is simply a class above any of the other drivers likely to be competing.........

WT

[Buzz Lightyear]

Well citroen and peugeot with not more than a little help from french tax payers have had their chance......... :) :) :)

SWRC will be given little more than an "also-ran" in the WRC TV coverage, so for Peugeot/Skoda etc, the choice is simple. The quality of drivers in IRC is far superior to SWRC at the moment.

[alleskids]

Welcome to the one-make championship Andreas.

The S-WRC will soon be renamend IFC (Intercontinental Fiesta Challange). Ther IFC is already succeeding in stealing the headlines from the IRC. The Junior and the Production WRC will also over be shadowed.

[Tomi]

With S-WRC growing so strong, how many will start in PWRC 2010 and JWRC 2010 ?

True, but its more clever for the driver to start in the S-WRC in the long run, maybe they should skip atleast JWRC.

[ProRally]

True, but its more clever for the driver to start in the S-WRC in the long run, maybe they should skip atleast JWRC.

With very few S1600 still running, I agree, maybe time to lay JWRC to rest.

Lets hope some other makes will join S-WRC otherwise like said a few posts before it could become Fiesta Cup.

(good marketing from M-Sport, the more cars running the quicker they can get it up to speed and power)

[alleskids]

Or skip the P-WRC, and keep the Juniors on R2 cars/1600cc. I really hope more manufacturers will participate in S-WRC.
Souza, Prokop, Al Atiyah and Pons will rally under the M-Sport banner. And maybe also Mikelssen Does any one know how the pointssystem for the Teams S2000cup wil be? Not that we not know the winner already: M-Sport

[ProRally]

Or skip the P-WRC, and keep the Juniors on R2 cars/1600cc. I really hope more manufacturers will participate in S-WRC.
Souza, Prokop, Al Atiyah and Pons will rally under the M-Sport banner. And maybe also Mikelssen Does any one know how the pointssystem for the Teams S2000cup wil be? Not that we not know the winner already: M-Sport

Ok, but then JWRC with R2 and R3 or R3T cars.... S1600 has become to expensive.

I need to read the rules again to see if FIA requires a minimum of participants in P and JWRC

[Tomi]

Lets hope some other makes will join S-WRC otherwise like said a few posts before it could become Fiesta Cup.

There will, sooner or later, there has always been ups and downs, but hopefully the Japaneese would stay in the sport.

[RS]

There will, sooner or later, there has always been ups and downs, but hopefully the Japaneese would stay in the sport.

What Japanese?

[Tomi]

What Japanese?
Thse who has been in PWRC mitsu and subaru

[Barreis]

EVO 10 won this year over S2000 cars and they're cheaper so it will be more open entry into world championship.. Also good promotion for Subaru and Mitsubishi.. :)

[RS]

Thse who has been in PWRC mitsu and subaru

But not for S-WRC..

[Tomi]

But not for S-WRC..

not yet, but perhaps later, but its important for the sport that japaneese are present too.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I think MSport are putting together very good deals to for SWRC, rather the IRC, as obviously they can offer parts and tech support cheaper than they could ever do on IRC rounds. But also, I think that maybe they do not want to risk putting their Fiesta up against Kopecky in a Skoda, as the car has to be seen to be winning.

[Helstar]

EVO 10 won this year over S2000 cars
Where ? And how many times ? 1 time over 10 or 100 ?

[JRodrigues]

Where ? And how many times ? 1 time over 10 or 100 ?

Rally GB

[Barreis]

Champ Araujo drove Evo 10.. :)

[Mirek]

lol... Brynildsen and Sandell won 10 stages, Nikkara and Araujo 2 stages. In the end Brynildsen was over 3 minutes faster than Araujo and Sandell was 14 minutes behind but after 17 minutes lost due to power steering failure and off.

[Francis44]

Araujo had much problems with the Evo 10 too, mainly Turbo.....

You guys are so full of yourselves.....Dont try to confront the facts with your crappy and made up arguments.

[Barreis]

It counts who won.. :)

[Francis44]

It counts who won.. :)

That's the point I was trying to make, no need to come with all sorts of stuff saying it was because of the other driver off and etc.

[noel157]

I think MSport are putting together very good deals to for SWRC, rather the IRC, as obviously they can offer parts and tech support cheaper than they could ever do on IRC rounds. But also, I think that maybe they do not want to risk putting their Fiesta up against Kopecky in a Skoda, as the car has to be seen to be winning.

Well I think the Fiesta has about 7 chances of winning in every S-WRC round, marketing man's dream. Hopefully we'll see a few in IRC later in the season.

[pantealex]

Champ Araujo drove Evo 10.. :)

Yes in GB, but in all other WRC rallyes he drove evo 9 (IX)

[Mirek]

That's the point I was trying to make, no need to come with all sorts of stuff saying it was because of the other driver off and etc.

Noone argues about that but the talk was about "how fast the cars are" and that has very little to do with anything else than pure speed...

[RS]

Besides, the points system in pWRC can throw up a strange result at the end of the year. I think (from memory) Sandell won something like 3 rounds but he wasn't even in with a chance of the title before GB started!

[ProRally]

In PWRC you have to SCORE EACH round otherwise forget a good result...

[Josti]

Besides, the points system in pWRC can throw up a strange result at the end of the year. I think (from memory) Sandell won something like 3 rounds but he wasn't even in with a chance of the title before GB started!

He won the first two rounds, got a second and a seventh place. In two rallies he didn't scored points. He was fourth and only one point behind Nassar in the championship.

But given the point system is the same as WRC, obviously it's not favouring a winning driver persée.

[JRodrigues]

He won the first two rounds, got a second and a seventh place. In two rallies he didn't scored points. He was fourth and only one point behind Nassar in the championship.

But given the point system is the same as WRC, obviously it's not favouring a winning driver persée.

When you have just 6 events, it's very hard to win if you are not consistent.

[Helstar]

]Noone argues about that but the talk was about "how fast the cars are" and that has very little to do with anything else than pure speed...
As usual they are only looking to the drivers and defending their pupils, while the argument was the speed of the CARS !

S2000 have been clearly faster than Gr.N this year (there was a similar question in the ERC Greece thread), if a skilled driver (Araujo or Pech or whoever) on a Evo Gr.N has beated unreliable S2000 (or driven by slower guys), well, it's totally irrelevant ^^ let's see the whole results, what is the usual winner between S2000/Gr.N on IRC/national rally/championships etc. ?

So S2000 > Gr.N, no discussions. Maybe next year with larger restrictor we will see this year some closer pace, but who knows. Development of S2000 is fast too ;p

Ps. Don't even start saying "oh but Gr.N cars cost a fraction of S2000" ^^ it's not the argument. It's true but the "raw speed" is another thing, and we are talking about that.

[Sami]

It depends on the event characteristics. In national champioship in Finland, for example, the s2000 cars have been of the pace. Kristian Sohlberg drove a couple of events with a Grande Punto but was of the pace. He changed to Impreza and has been second several times this year.

Janne Tuohino drove a 207, but never managed to achieve good result with that. Finnish Championship series is dominated by group N cars.

The same situation is on wet tarmac, for example Paolo Andreucci outpaced the s2000 cars on some Italian rallies in 2008 in his Mitsubishi on wet.

So, on tricky and rough stuff S2000 is clearly faster, on smooth and fast, group N has a chance!

But still, good decicion to separate those two, no idea in running them in same championship series fighting points with each other..

[Tomi]

It depends on the event characteristics. In national champioship in Finland, for example, the s2000 cars have been of the pace. Kristian Sohlberg drove a couple of events with a Grande Punto but was of the pace. He changed to Impreza and has been second several times this year.

Janne Tuohino drove a 207, but never managed to achieve good result with that. Finnish Championship series is dominated by group N cars.

The same situation is on wet tarmac, for example Paolo Andreucci outpaced the s2000 cars on some Italian rallies in 2008 in his Mitsubishi on wet.

So, on tricky and rough stuff S2000 is clearly faster, on smooth and fast, group N has a chance!

But still, good decicion to separate those two, no idea in running them in same championship series fighting points with each other..

It would be nice to see Ketomaa in a S2000 in WRC next year ;)

[Gordini]

It also has to do with different driving style btw turbo and NA engines. Many good drivers have a challenge in changing their style, if they have driven turbo for many years.

[Tomi]

Many good drivers have a challenge in changing their style, if they have driven turbo for many years.

Or maybe they are not so good after all, if they cant change their style to suite the car or the car to suite their driving.

[Sami]

It also has to do with different driving style btw turbo and NA engines. Many good drivers have a challenge in changing their style, if they have driven turbo for many years.

That's true, and what Tomi said abaut adaptability is true too, the thing is, that in wrc you can drive really loose car fastly, letting it slide and drift a lot, putting it sideways before corners and then sraightening it with the power in the apex with all the power in to the opening straight.

In s2000 there is just not torque to do that, it drops of the rev area and you have to shift down, which costs time. In s2000 you have to be front end first.

That is why it's been easy for Juho Hänninen to swift to s2000, he drove that way already in group n and even wrc, and that is why it has been really difficult for for example Kristian Sohlberg and Gigi Galli, they would have to adapt their style very much, which means loosing the natural driving joy and that is, more or less, speed...

But as Tomi said, a capable driver should be able to adapt to the circumstances, wether it is the car or the conditions that require adaptation.

[Roy]

Ford Spain and Nupel Rally Team will have a close working relation next year, under the guidance of Luis Moya. Xavier Pons and Alex Haro will do the S-WRC, in a Ford Fiesta S2000, while the team will also field 2 Ford Fiesta S2000's in the Spanisch rally championship, defending their title, for Sergio Vallejo / Diego Vallejo and Álvaro Muñiz / César Blanco, plus 2 Fiesta R2's for Suria Marta/Sonia Lopez and Adrián Díaz/Mario Thomas.
Plus Luis Moya will start a training school for rally drivers/navigators

http://vallejoracing.wordpress.com/

[Mirek]

It depends on the event characteristics. In national champioship in Finland, for example, the s2000 cars have been of the pace. Kristian Sohlberg drove a couple of events with a Grande Punto but was of the pace. He changed to Impreza and has been second several times this year.

Janne Tuohino drove a 207, but never managed to achieve good result with that. Finnish Championship series is dominated by group N cars.

The same situation is on wet tarmac, for example Paolo Andreucci outpaced the s2000 cars on some Italian rallies in 2008 in his Mitsubishi on wet.

So, on tricky and rough stuff S2000 is clearly faster, on smooth and fast, group N has a chance!

But still, good decicion to separate those two, no idea in running them in same championship series fighting points with each other..

I agree that Fiat realy wasn't the best S2000 for Finland with short gearbox and quite weak engine but still Anton Alen (I don't rate him as super driver) was way faster on Finnish stages than Kristian Sohlberg even with Fiat, Raikkonen also wasn't bad and Hänninen in Skoda was on different level to anyone (of course also because of his skills).

Andreucci in 2008 and wet srface... it was also about tyres since he was on Pirellis which are superior to BFG on wet surface. In Italy it's always that way that Pirelli drivers are up on wet and down on dry. He kept this to 2009 season when he switched to Peugeot. He is still faster in wet or cold conditions ;)

In my opinion S2000 loose only on long straights because of much lower top speed and sometimes on slow uphill sections or very wet surface. On SS Malonty, Rally Cesky krumlov 2009 in Czech championship Kresta in 207 had top speed 175 km/h and Pech in gr.N Lancer had top speed 218 km/h. Despite that Kresta was 17 seconds faster on 25 km (it was very fast stage with average speed 120 km/h). On the other hand S2000 are unbeatable by gr.N cars on southern tarmac stages where there even much stronger Spanish gr.N cars (with 36 mm restrictor and almost 400 Hp) were slower on Asturias.

Anyway, what's wrong if some car is somewhere better than another car while not in another event? :)

[Buzz Lightyear]

]I agree that Fiat realy wasn't the best S2000 for Finland with short gearbox and quite weak engine but still Anton Alen (I don't rate him as super driver) was way faster on Finnish stages than Kristian Sohlberg even with Fiat, Raikkonen also wasn't bad and Hänninen in Skoda was on different level to anyone (of course also because of his skills).

Andreucci in 2008 and wet srface... it was also about tyres since he was on Pirellis which are superior to BFG on wet surface. In Italy it's always that way that Pirelli drivers are up on wet and down on dry. He kept this to 2009 season when he switched to Peugeot. He is still faster in wet or cold conditions ;)

In my opinion S2000 loose only on long straights because of much lower top speed and sometimes on slow uphill sections or very wet surface. On SS Malonty, Rally Cesky krumlov 2009 in Czech championship Kresta in 207 had top speed 175 km/h and Pech in gr.N Lancer had top speed 218 km/h. Despite that Kresta was 17 seconds faster on 25 km (it was very fast stage with average speed 120 km/h). On the other hand S2000 are unbeatable by gr.N cars on southern tarmac stages where there even much stronger Spanish gr.N cars (with 36 mm restrictor and almost 400 Hp) were slower on Asturias.

Anyway, what's wrong if some car is somewhere better than another car while not in another event? :)

Interesting. there is a video somewhere (dailiymotion, but I cant find it) showing a super slow-mo of the dynamics of a GpN car vs. Super 2000 at a hairpin. There is 0.4s just at the one slow corner. But anyway... Loeb will still float to the top, but I allso think Sordo will be very quick.

[HaCo]

Interesting. there is a video somewhere (dailiymotion, but I cant find it) showing a super slow-mo of the dynamics of a GpN car vs. Super 2000 at a hairpin. There is 0.4s just at the one slow corner. But anyway... Loeb will still float to the top, but I allso think Sordo will be very quick.

This might help you as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyiyjy6obno

[RS]

This might help you as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyiyjy6obno

Hmmm, there is something wrong when the most expensive car is the worst one to watch :(

Roll on new 'S1600T' WRCs (I can't call them S2000s since they are not!)

[pucky54]

This might help you as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyiyjy6obno

My choice is definately S2000!!!
Second goes to S1600 followed by WRC and the......oh I almost fall asleep...Group N4 cars

[Helstar]

and that is why it has been really difficult for for example Kristian Sohlberg and Gigi Galli
Where did Galli drive a S2000 car ? ^^

[alleskids]

According to Zsport.se, Patrik Sandell talks with Red Bull and Skoda on a contract extension - and intends to submit a Fabia S2000 for the SWRC. The Swede won this year's first two rounds of PCWRC, but in the championship was only fourth.

- We are in the final stage of negotiations and I can not do anything else, but expect that we will solve everything - said Sandell. - Today I am going on holiday to Thailand, January 4 is the deadline for submissions. A year ago, frankly, it was hell. We were in the midst of economic crisis and uncertainty was enormous. Now everything has calmed down, at least for the producers, the situation is still somewhat tense.

In this season the best riding in the team, what ever raced. Everything was tip top. I have never met people who worked so hard to get results. May be caused a combination of Czech and Czech brands mechanics. They were very proud of their car and so tried very hard, though they fought for their country.

[hari]

Patrik Sandell is now confirmed with the RedBull Rallye Team and the Skoda Fabia S2000 for the SWRC 2010.

His rallies in SWRC 2010:
Sweden
Jordan
New Zealand
Finland
Germany
France
Wales

[ProRally]

Patrik Sandell is now confirmed with the RedBull Rallye Team and the Skoda Fabia S2000 for the SWRC 2010.

His rallies in SWRC 2010:
Sweden
Jordan
New Zealand
Finland
Germany
France
Wales

Good at least already 1 Skoda in SWRC....

Any news on Prokop and Kosciuszko ?

[RICARDO75]

Good at least already 1 Skoda in SWRC....

Any news on Prokop and Kosciuszko ?


Don´t forget Eyvind Brynieldsen with Skoda of RGRS in the SWRC

[Mirek]

Good at least already 1 Skoda in SWRC....

Any news on Prokop and Kosciuszko ?

Prokop with Fiesta in SWRC and at least one IRC round (Barum), quite probably some more.