It's a Man's Job!

[Hazell B]

Does gender really matter much in normal, everyday jobs these days?

This afternoon I was at an auction house where I do most of my business (I sell plants, mainly to farmers) and happened to get to the pay window that a new member of staff was at. The day's auctions were all finished by then. I asked for entry forms for all three of the different styles of auction they do to save myself having to download them.

"The sale's finished" she said.
"Yes, I know :mark: But I'd like forms for the next ten sales, please" I said.
"You can't make entries, they're finished today" she repeated.

Long story short, she went on to explain the most elementary, basic things to me, in words as short as possible, about how auctions work and how to fill in the forms. Even when I said I knew as I enter all the auctions each year, she rolled her eyes at me as if I was some sort of novice.

After some time an auctioneer appeared, told her to stop waffling and gave me the forms with a wink.

I'm used to men looking at me in hardware stores and saying things like "Do you know what that's for?" when I buy a hammer :rolleyes: but I've never met a woman who assumes I'm out of my depth in a man's world.

We don't even notice when a nurse is male, so why does a woman handling power tools or selling greenery to farmers stand out so much? :dozey:

Are there any jobs where it really does matter what sex a worker is?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Actor/Actress :p

[Hazell B]

Tell that to Dustin Hoffman :laugh:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Page 3 girl? :erm:

[fandango]

After some time an auctioneer appeared, told her to stop waffling and gave me the forms with a wink.

So did she give you the forms with a wink? When you say auctioneer, does that mean it was a man?

While we can see a man or woman in most jobs, I find there are still limits. Imagine a man staying home while his partner, a woman, goes out to work. No problem, there, right? Now imagine a cleaner. Usually it's a woman, but it could easily be a man.

But then, imagine a man at home and the doorbell rings, and it's the (male) cleaner coming to dust and iron etc. It's just a weird image, so I try to imagine other things. What were you saying about nurses...?

[Christina]

hmm.. i dont think i could really see a male beautician, especially not when it comes to the waxing part of that job.

[Hawkmoon]

I think there are jobs that are inherently suited to either men or women. Child carers are usually women and miners are usually men, for example.

If a job is dirty, smelly or physically demanding it tends to be male dominated becuase most women simply don't like that kind of work. Conversely, looking after 20 odd 3 year olds is something that most men would consider a nightmare, hence most primary school teachers and child care workers are women.

Traditionally women have stayed out of technical jobs so when a women does take a job like that it invaribaly attracts attention. It was the same with nursing. We still use the term 'male nurse' because for most people, 'nurse' has a female connotation.

As more men become nurses and more women become engineers, I think the gender associations with particular jobs will fade and terms like 'nurse' will be thought of the same way that 'manager' is today.

[Daniel]

Quite true. That's why men seem to pant wildly when anything with breasts puts on a nomex suit and goes racing even if she's not attractive or not particularly nice :crazy:

[Ian McC]

After some time an auctioneer appeared, told her to stop waffling and gave me the forms with a wink.

You just can't help yourself can you :rolleyes:



:p : :D

[LeonBrooke]

I think it's becoming more acceptable for men to have traditionally women's jobs. It's very rare for someone to question me being a nurse, or to make note of the fact that I'm male and a nurse.

In some areas it's becoming more acceptable for women to have traditionally men's jobs, for example surgery - we're seeing more women becoming doctors and surgeons.

But it's the less skilled traditionally male jobs where women still struggle to be accepted, it seems...

[EuroTroll]

I don't want to offend anyone and it might be that I'm clinging to ancient prejudices, but it does seem to me sometimes, on some level, that men and women are in fact... not entirely identical physically and mentally... :uhoh:




:uhoh: ...No 'fence... No 'fence... :cheese: :uhoh:




...which might indicate that, indeed, some professions are better suited for men and some fo... alright, I'm going! :burnout:

[Erki]

Hey, leave me out of this thread. :burnout:

[EuroTroll]

While we're at it, I'd like to be left out of the "Ice Cream Man" thread. I've no interest in that whatsoever. :\

:p :

[LotusElise]

When women were running the factories during WWII, no-one complained.

[Drew]

Are there any jobs where it really does matter what sex a worker is?

Pope.

:p :

[EuroTroll]

Don't see why.. :)

[Captain VXR]

World's strongest man competiter

[airshifter]

When women were running the factories during WWII, no-one complained.

That's only because most of the men were gone! :P

I personally don't see most jobs as gender specific. I think it's just a matter of how the genders are raised that more often leads them to a gender biased job.

Even as a father I would prefer to see my daughter doing something with her mind rather than say being a mechanic, even if she was just as happy at it and made an equal wage.

[LotusElise]

I know.

No-one complained about their standard of work though, did they? There are army trucks built in those factories that have only just fallen out of use.

[Donney]

On the other hand there were not many people left to complain....
:p :

Seriously now I don't think there are basic generic differences between men and women when it comes to working.

[airshifter]

I know.

No-one complained about their standard of work though, did they? There are army trucks built in those factories that have only just fallen out of use.

I was only joking regardless. ;)

Here in the US women also delivered some of the aircraft after they built them. This allowed more of the male pilots to be at or near the war fronts.

[Breeze]

That's not our Hazel, that's a MAN, baby!

[Hazell B]

I don't want to offend anyone and it might be that I'm clinging to ancient prejudices, but it does seem to me sometimes, on some level, that men and women are in fact... not entirely identical physically and mentally...

That's always been my thought.
As a woman I'd be rubbish at slaughtering animals, lifting heavy things all day, etc. We're just not genetically designed to do some things.

However, when it comes to something as simple as entering auctions or bashing things with hammers, I'm pretty much an equal. Yet still some people just can't see that :confused: I was turned down for the job a grave digger in a village near here once. They use a bobcat digger, so it isn't manual work (the man doing it at the time was over 70!) and it was occasional work, but they said I couldn't do it :mark:

On the (almost) same subject, I personally won't employ a woman racing driver if I ran a team. If an equally talented man was available, he'd get the drive. Women take time out for children, men don't. If a woman's hurt or killed, it's major bad publicity, where as a man's injury is seen as normal.

[inamo]

Odd logic there! Given that racing drivers are generally on 1-2 year contracts I can't see why you'd be reluctant to run a female driver on your hypothetical team, at a professional level they're highly unlikely to run off to have kids or whatever in that timeframe.

Any fatality in motorsport is a bad thing, male or female.

You've also neglected to factor in the consideration that a female driver would give your team something unique from the others with potential for increased media attention / sponsorship as a result.

[slinkster]

at a professional level they're highly unlikely to run off to have kids or whatever in that timeframe.


I thought that too to be honest... but I do see your point Hazell.

I guess it's an individual thing, I wouldn't be able to spend all day lifting heavy things or slaughtering animals either, but other women may be fine with both those things.

[LotusElise]

Couldn't slaughter animals because I wouldn't like it and I'm too small and unco-ordinated to lift heavy things, although I do have basic forklift skills instead!

A female friend of mine took up with the Countryside Alliance people a while ago and likes to regale me with tales of how she has learnt to kill rabbits and other assorted wildlife. Not that she is typical. (Thank god!)

[Erki]

I wouldn't slaughter animals either, but lifting heavy things sounds like fun...especially with forklift! :burnout:

[GridGirl]

However, when it comes to something as simple as entering auctions or bashing things with hammers, I'm pretty much an equal. Yet still some people just can't see that. I was turned down for the job a grave digger in a village near here once. They use a bobcat digger, so it isn't manual work (the man doing it at the time was over 70!) and it was occasional work, but they said I couldn't do it.

Its ok Hazell, Diggerland is opening up in Castleford soon. ;)

[imull]

That's only because most of the men were gone! :P

I personally don't see most jobs as gender specific. I think it's just a matter of how the genders are raised that more often leads them to a gender biased job.

Even as a father I would prefer to see my daughter doing something with her mind rather than say being a mechanic, even if she was just as happy at it and made an equal wage.

were they not paid 1/2 of the male salaries though?

I would quite happily hire a woman to work for me. She would however, have to be able to lift the same slabs, cement etc that all my other staff do. Not in the business of paying people for half a job. For that reason alone, I wouldnt hire someone in a wheelchair for example...

[schmenke]

... I was turned down for the job a grave digger in a village near here once. ...

Probably a good thing. I hear it's a dead-end job...

[speedy king]

....oh dear :p :

[Hazell B]

...racing drivers are generally on 1-2 year contracts .... at a professional level they're highly unlikely to run off to have kids or whatever in that timeframe.

So unexpected pregnancies never happen?
A friend used to sponsor a female driver and she had 'woman's problems' from time to time, too. Not that we're all the same, but we do tend to get ill and have medical worries that would stop us competing more than men.



Any fatality in motorsport is a bad thing, male or female.


Yes, but they never make much impact on the world in general. A woman driver being killed would make the non-sport sections of papers and gain far more column inches than a normal man's in the same team.



You've also neglected to factor in the consideration that a female driver would give your team something unique from the others with potential for increased media attention / sponsorship as a result.

No I haven't. There isn't much extra space in the media for them now anyway, not unless they look like a model at least.

[fandango]

Women take time out for children, men don't.

That's nonsense. I work less hours since I became a father, because I'm working at being a father (though not in the reproductive sense, two's enough). It's not a question of being a man or a woman, but rather a question of following the "norms" of society.

[donKey jote]

Probably a good thing. I hear it's a dead-end job...

surely not... I heard everyone was dying to go there ! :dozey:

[LeonBrooke]

That's always been my thought.
As a woman I'd be rubbish at slaughtering animals, lifting heavy things all day, etc. We're just not genetically designed to do some things.


I'm no good at heavy lifting. I'm very small, and heavy lifting is occasionally part of a nurse's job. The women around me can do it but I can't.

By very small I mean about 175cm, 55kg.

[vanillagirl85]

I'm no good at heavy lifting. I'm very small, and heavy lifting is occasionally part of a nurse's job. The women around me can do it but I can't.

By very small I mean about 175cm, 55kg.

could you put that into inches and pounds for the Americans on this site? :)

I used to work as an editorial assistant for an adult magazine that catered to men (not that I'm aware of too many that cater to women...SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE???). I got lots of very sexist comments that I was working a job that was "not appropriate" for me because I was a woman...from only women. My male friends either didn't care or demanded that I invite them to the office (I'm assuming jokingly). My duties were boring, mundane editorial duties, but my female friends told me constantly that I should quit because I was a woman, that I was "in denial." These friends claimed to have no moral opposition to pornography itself; they objected solely to the fact that I worked there as a female.

[Roamy]

I wouldn't slaughter animals either, but lifting heavy things sounds like fun...especially with forklift! :burnout:
dude what about a new york - pittsburg rare !!

[LeonBrooke]

could you put that into inches and pounds for the Americans on this site? :)

I used to work as an editorial assistant for an adult magazine that catered to men (not that I'm aware of too many that cater to women...SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE???). I got lots of very sexist comments that I was working a job that was "not appropriate" for me because I was a woman...from only women. My male friends either didn't care or demanded that I invite them to the office (I'm assuming jokingly). My duties were boring, mundane editorial duties, but my female friends told me constantly that I should quit because I was a woman, that I was "in denial." These friends claimed to have no moral opposition to pornography itself; they objected solely to the fact that I worked there as a female.

5 feet 9 inches, 121 pounds. I'm often nursing people twice my size, and it's not easy.

I can understand your women friends telling you you should quit, but seriously a job is a job, they shouldn't have been judging you for it. Besides, an editorial job is better than the alternative! :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Next year womens tennis players at wimbledon are going to get the same prize money as the men.

This seems strange to me as the womens games are a lot shorter than the mens :s

[raphael123]

Some jobs men can do a better job than women can - simple as really.

[Ranger]

By very small I mean about 175cm, 55kg.

Join the club!

Onto the topic, I'm not sure how many women CEO's you see or will see in the future. I think that's due to the glass cieling mentality.

[LotusElise]

I used to work as an editorial assistant for an adult magazine that catered to men (not that I'm aware of too many that cater to women...SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE???). I got lots of very sexist comments that I was working a job that was "not appropriate" for me because I was a woman...from only women. My male friends either didn't care or demanded that I invite them to the office (I'm assuming jokingly). My duties were boring, mundane editorial duties, but my female friends told me constantly that I should quit because I was a woman, that I was "in denial." These friends claimed to have no moral opposition to pornography itself; they objected solely to the fact that I worked there as a female.

Lots of women find those magazines distasteful and/or offensive. I personally can't stand them and tend to make my feelings known. Lots of those people find it difficult to articulate how they feel because they are automatically labelled as a prude and a man-hating feminist/member of the PC brigade/religious zealot. (Delete as appropriate.) The truth is, they are just people with individual preferences and usually have a good reason to dislike "adult" publications: they may have had a relationship go down the pipes because of their partner's dependence on p0rn, they might have had unpleasant experiences when younger, or they might just object to women being depicted as sex objects and the growing effect that commercial p0rn is having on attitudes in society.
It is usually easier to attack a person than an idea.

Raphael123, you're being a controversy-seeking missile again, aren't you?

[oily oaf]

I'm no good at heavy lifting. I'm very small, and heavy lifting is occasionally part of a nurse's job. The women around me can do it but I can't.

By very small I mean about 175cm, 55kg.

Hey size isn't everything Leon no matter what the ladies say

I had a mate some years back who was roughly the same size as your good self and believe you me he was one of the hardest men I have ever come across.

"Scotch" George was a Glaswegian brought up in the fearsome Maryhill district of that fair city and like many of his compatriots he was a staunch and fearless individual with a hair trigger temper especially when in drink.

One occasion the 2 of us were in a pub in South London having a slightly heated discussion about fox hunting believe it or not :)
During this little contretemps I called him a little Scotch ............(fill in 4 letter word of your choice here)

In an instant he'd pulled a switchblade from his boot and had it under my chin and pressing none to gently into the carotid artery.

To this day I don't know why but as I looked at his face contorted with rage and with the veins in his temples doing a rumba I just burst out laughing.
Fortunately for me this seemed to diffuse the situation somewhat and he eventually joined in but not before growling "Don't ye ever talk tae me like that agin"

And do you know what Leon?

I never did :D

[raphael123]

oily oaf you big girls blouse lol!

[imull]

Yes, but they never make much impact on the world in general. A woman driver being killed would make the non-sport sections of papers and gain far more column inches than a normal man's in the same team.

When Susan Cameron was killed on Mull there was very little press coverage thankfully. Even when you consider that it was her husband driving the car :( Sort of thing the gutter press would usually go mad for :( :( :(

[oily oaf]

oily oaf you big girls blouse lol!

Steady on! That's a bit harsh :(

(small tear rolls down cheek and plops gently onto partly finished embroidery)

[airshifter]

could you put that into inches and pounds for the Americans on this site? :)

I used to work as an editorial assistant for an adult magazine that catered to men (not that I'm aware of too many that cater to women...SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE???).

Well if I were expected to provide suggestions for such a thing, I would have to know all the desired aspects women would want. And being a family forum, I don't think they should provide them in public. But private messages are not public. :laugh:


I think LotusElise is correct, people will often judge other people because they find something offensive in some way. In reality they should be more concerned that a demand exists for what they find offensive, otherwise the business that employed people such as yourself would not have a customer base.

[LeonBrooke]

Join the club!

Onto the topic, I'm not sure how many women CEO's you see or will see in the future. I think that's due to the glass cieling mentality.

Well, I know I'm not all that small, but a nurse should be muscular and, well, I'm not.


Hey size isn't everything Leon no matter what the ladies say

I had a mate some years back who was roughly the same size as your good self and believe you me he was one of the hardest men I have ever come across.

"Scotch" George was a Glaswegian brought up in the fearsome Maryhill district of that fair city and like many of his compatriots he was a staunch and fearless individual with a hair trigger temper especially when in drink.

One occasion the 2 of us were in a pub in South London having a slightly heated discussion about fox hunting believe it or not :)
During this little contretemps I called him a little Scotch ............(fill in 4 letter word of your choice here)

In an instant he'd pulled a switchblade from his boot and had it under my chin and pressing none to gently into the carotid artery.

To this day I don't know why but as I looked at his face contorted with rage and with the veins in his temples doing a rumba I just burst out laughing.
Fortunately for me this seemed to diffuse the situation somewhat and he eventually joined in but not before growling "Don't ye ever talk tae me like that agin"

And do you know what Leon?

I never did :D

Ah, so the moral of the story is, "carry a switchblade" :D


Lots of women find those magazines distasteful and/or offensive. I personally can't stand them and tend to make my feelings known. Lots of those people find it difficult to articulate how they feel because they are automatically labelled as a prude and a man-hating feminist/member of the PC brigade/religious zealot. (Delete as appropriate.) The truth is, they are just people with individual preferences and usually have a good reason to dislike "adult" publications: they may have had a relationship go down the pipes because of their partner's dependence on p0rn, they might have had unpleasant experiences when younger, or they might just object to women being depicted as sex objects and the growing effect that commercial p0rn is having on attitudes in society.
It is usually easier to attack a person than an idea.

Raphael123, you're being a controversy-seeking missile again, aren't you?

Lotus, I agree with you here. however, a job is a job and they're not all that easy to come by sometimes.

[draper]

i know a girl whos doing an engineering apprentiship and her mate is a mechanic - keep suggesting a 3sum so we canget my track car finished :D the main thing is (as said) women dont like getting dirty, smelly etc.

altho on my electrical course there are 3 women, thats 5 sets of burned bras that i know of :p

[Hazell B]

....women dont like getting dirty, smelly etc.



I spent today in deep mud planting Christmas trees with horse $hit as compost, then mucked out some stables so disprove that little theory :p :

[draper]

^^ theres an exception to every rule, i spent today filling in paperwork but im no seceratary ;)