Open Debate - NO MORE CLOSED PITS

[disko]

Ok, Dario lost the race last night because he had to come in for a splash, but only because the pits were closed.

WHat if, they eliminate the closed pit rule. Pit whenever you want. This would eliminate the getting caught out and I think would improve the on track performance. Are they afraid they cant keep up with the scoring? How much of a safety factor is it that that they close the pits? Or is it they buy time on the track to run around 5 laps under caution to clean up the mess? When the yellow comes out - 'no passing, except for pit strategy gains. Pick up the lead car (at the time of the yellow) and let everyone cycle around one lap before green.

Also, why does the pace car have to drive past the start finish line and pull in at pit out. It seems anti- pace carish. Pace car should enter pit road and then let them go, like in NA_CAR.

[SarahFan]

i have no problem with them never closing the pits.....but there is an element of danger with drivers 'racing' after the yellow....

[indyracefan]

I'm in favor of eliminating yellow-flag pit-stops except for obvious emergencies (ie. wrecked, damaged cars, etc.).

[nigelred5]

Teams should be able to pit when ever they want or need. I hate all the manufactured pit stop BS. none of this sorting out the order, waiting for the pits to open/close bs. If there is a FCY, simly pick up the leader and go from there. The only reason the pit lane should be closed is if there is an incident that affects pit in/out or the pit lane itself.

[Alexamateo]

When did the pit road speed limits and closing the pits start in Indycar?

I remember that in Nascar, as fields became more and more competitive, (more and more cars on the lead lap late in the race) there were quite a bit of scoring snafus caused by drivers ducking in early and the pace car picking up the wrong driver etc. Nascar started closing the pits to keep this from happening, but that of course put everybody on pit road at the same time. That led to crewman Mike Rich (working for Bill Elliot) being killed when Ricky Rudd was spun in the pits under caution. That led to pit road speed limits. It seems like not long after that Indy instituted a 100 MPH speed limit on pit road. I cannot remember when pit road started to be closed at the onset of a caution.

I wonder now if all of that is even necessary due to gps scoring systems. I would advocate not closing pit road unless the incident itself is on pit road or the entrance etc, and I would raise (but not eliminate) the pit road speed limit. I think everyone forgot that pit road was closed because of scoring problems, but technology has largely eliminated that problem now.

[Jonesi]

When did the pit road speed limits and closing the pits start in Indycar?

I remember that in Nascar, as fields became more and more competitive, (more and more cars on the lead lap late in the race) there were quite a bit of scoring snafus caused by drivers ducking in early and the pace car picking up the wrong driver etc. Nascar started closing the pits to keep this from happening, but that of course put everybody on pit road at the same time. That led to crewman Mike Rich (working for Bill Elliot) being killed when Ricky Rudd was spun in the pits under caution. That led to pit road speed limits. It seems like not long after that Indy instituted a 100 MPH speed limit on pit road. I cannot remember when pit road started to be closed at the onset of a caution.

I wonder now if all of that is even necessary due to gps scoring systems. I would advocate not closing pit road unless the incident itself is on pit road or the entrance etc, and I would raise (but not eliminate) the pit road speed limit. I think everyone forgot that pit road was closed because of scoring problems, but technology has largely eliminated that problem now.

The "pit road speed limit" happened in the mid 90s. Within a couple of monthes of each other F1, CART, IRL, Nascar and I think IMSA all went to it, so it was probably Insurance Company mandated.

Even with GPS T&S there are still delays in communicating that info to Stewards, Starter & Pace car driver, while an emergency is going on. Automatically closing pit road resolves that. During an ALERT where possible life saving communication needs to be transmitted, the T&S coordinator is allowed to briefly jump in with something like: "Leader #xx in Turn x". Takes about 2 seconds.
What CAN"T happen is "Leader #12 in turn 9, New leader#34 in turn _, no he's pitting too. Leader now....ummm, I'll get back to you" Meanwhile the Turn Communicator is trying to transmit something like "EMT needs Doctor here NOW, and the helicopter ready!" Somewhere over time keeping it simple and just closing the pits will save a life.

[disko]

I would think that with all the electronics, gps, etc, that there should be an efficient and effect means of establishing the leader, especially after the PT HCN issue at indy.

Then, theres always videotape. With 10 minutes under yellow, I think someone could figure out who has the lead.

Maybe this would only be effective on ovals.

[dataman1]

Ken and Disco are both right IMO. It would be great to never close the pit except for the obvious wreck in the way of getting in or out of the pits. The issue is more of "can the technology keep the order of cars correct after the yellow is displayed" AND "how do you keep the speeds under control so the safety vehicles can get on the track without risk of being plowed by a speeder trying to get to the pits."

[Wade91]

they are doing it the only way they can, if they didn't close the the pits at the moment the coution, then the leaders would always be at a diadvantage, becouse if there were drivers in the back that hadn't passed the pit road interance yet, they could just come down pit road right then and then catch up and get passed the leaders when the leaders came around to make there pit stops

[Lousada]

Also, why does the pace car have to drive past the start finish line and pull in at pit out. It seems anti- pace carish. Pace car should enter pit road and then let them go, like in NA_CAR.

Because Indycars are a lot faster then the pacecar. If they want to get a proper run on the start/finish straight, they'll have to give the pacecar a gap of half a mile. Because otherwise they would pass it before the line, which is illigal. Remember Indy '95?

[garyshell]

they are doing it the only way they can, if they didn't close the the pits at the moment the coution, then the leaders would always be at a diadvantage, becouse if there were drivers in the back that hadn't passed the pit road interance yet, they could just come down pit road right then and then catch up and get passed the leaders when the leaders came around to make there pit stops


Thats easy to fix. Pits are closed until the leader passes (or enters) pit in.

Gary

[Bob Riebe]

Teams should be able to pit when ever they want or need. I hate all the manufactured pit stop BS. none of this sorting out the order, waiting for the pits to open/close bs. If there is a FCY, simly pick up the leader and go from there. The only reason the pit lane should be closed is if there is an incident that affects pit in/out or the pit lane itself.
BRAVO-BRAVO!

[Bob Riebe]

they are doing it the only way they can, if they didn't close the the pits at the moment the coution, then the leaders would always be at a diadvantage, becouse if there were drivers in the back that hadn't passed the pit road interance yet, they could just come down pit road right then and then catch up and get passed the leaders when the leaders came around to make there pit stops
So what, its called racing, not welfare handouts for the chosen few.

You pay your money and you take your chances.

[methanolHuffer]

Teammates have been known to be gamechangers is situations where a yellow would be handy.
I don't think a controversy in an important race ending in yellow is what the sport needs.

I do like hard racing, though. And if there is a way to prevent a teammate from drawing a yellow, while his/her teammate benefits greatly from that yellow, I'm all for it.

But hey, I'm kind of a paranoiac.

[Jonesi]

All of those communications are on different radio frequencies and involve different personnel in the tower.

That's very surprising to hear, I would think that would cause more problems then it solves.
I did assume IRL did communications like CC, IMSA, SCCA, etc at least as recently when I was on the headsets at 1st San Jose Grand Prix.

[nigelred5]

Teammates have been known to be gamechangers is situations where a yellow would be handy.
I don't think a controversy in an important race ending in yellow is what the sport needs.

I do like hard racing, though. And if there is a way to prevent a teammate from drawing a yellow, while his/her teammate benefits greatly from that yellow, I'm all for it.

But hey, I'm kind of a paranoiac.


Well, they could start by not throwing half of the yellows they do throw in the first place and then they seriously need to pick up the pace in most of the cautions that are legitimate incidents. I love when you see a driver chuck a piece of rollbar padding out the window in nascar. BS like that should be an immediate black flag

[call_me_andrew]

Because Indycars are a lot faster then the pacecar. If they want to get a proper run on the start/finish straight, they'll have to give the pacecar a gap of half a mile. Because otherwise they would pass it before the line, which is illigal. Remember Indy '95?

I don't think speed really has anything to do with it. Once the pace car has pulled off, NASCAR doesn't allow the leaders to accelerate until they're about 100 yards away from the start/finish line.

I don't know why you would want them to have a "proper run".

There are only two ways to ensure that a wreck doesn't have any effect on the running order: close the pits or go back to the pre-1979 caution system where the field tries to keep spread apart.

And GPS technology is not yet reliable enough for racing. NASCAR seems to be trying though.