Dixon Vs Helio....?

[SarahFan]

3 500 vs 1 500

2 championships vs 0 championships

the iceman vs danceing with the stars...



who gets your Nod?.... which is the better racer?.... why

[underpowered]

3 500 vs 1 500

2 championships vs 0 championships

the iceman vs danceing with the stars...

who gets your Nod?.... which is the better racer?.... why

Scott gets my vote. He is all class. First off, he was driven into by Helio this weekend and incredibly didnt put it in the wall, but then went on to drive back to fifth.

Then, when they interviewed him he was charitalbe to Helio by saying it was his fault he finished fifth because they didnt have enough downforce in the car. Maybe he should coach Marco.

Aside from that, I believe if Scott had been driving for Roger he would have won more 500's and championships.

Scott has always had the measure of his team mates and has won in some poor cars.

I think Helio is a great driver.....but I am a Scott fan.

[SUBARUTEAM]

I agree with underpowered but I'm biased!!

He did a great job to keep his car off the wall yesterday and bring it home in 5th.

I think he was running 10th before the last pit stop so he must have had a hell of an in & out lap - his pit stop was 7 seconds so that was good but no better then anyone else. That shows class.

[peasant]

Dixon, that's easy. He's also 5 years younger.

[NickFalzone]

Hard for me to choose. On road and streets, I'd give Helio a slight edge. Dixon is better on ovals. Honestly if you put them in the same equipment on the same track, I'd probably go with Dixon, but just barely.

[TURN3]

Dixon, that's easy. He's also 5 years younger.

Excellent comparison of these 2 guys. Not sure how you figure it to be an easy choice. I side with Dixon but really I think it comes down to preference. These guys couldn't be more evenly matched in my opinion. I don't see either being better on a particular type of circuit either. I think they are even, straight up, across the board. I give Franchitti the edge over them both though.

[peasant]

Excellent comparison of these 2 guys. Not sure how you figure it to be an easy choice. I side with Dixon but really I think it comes down to preference. These guys couldn't be more evenly matched in my opinion. I don't see either being better on a particular type of circuit either. I think they are even, straight up, across the board. I give Franchitti the edge over them both though.

2 championships versus 0. Indy might be great, but it's 1 race, and luck and politics come into it more. Helio was gifted 02 by barnhart, Dixon had 06 taken from him by barnhart. Who did barnhart used to work for?? In fact what team has benefitted the most from Indy 500 controversies over the years? Who does Helio drive for? Dixon vs Helio is an easy one for me. Franchitti vs Dixon would be a tougher comparison.

[indycool]

Given the right car and situation, think you could throw a blanket over Helio, Dixon, Franchitti and Kanaan.

[SarahFan]

Given the right car and situation, think you could throw a blanket over Helio, Dixon, Franchitti and Kanaan.



And 'today' yougotta add briscoe IMO

[SUBARUTEAM]

And 'today' yougotta add briscoe IMO

Ken - I agree.
I think that you could put these 5 guys in a competitive f1 car and they would hold their own in europe too.

we always talk about the top 4 cars making the racing boring, but often we forget that they are been peddled by some of the best drivers in the business - and that does make a difference.

[indycool]

Yep, Ken, I'd agree with that.

[underpowered]

Dixon earns 1 point for letting PT by and staying out of the way.......He was beside Dixon with tyres locked up.....Dixon must have thought....Hmmm...Better give him as much room as possible.....

Helio will know for next time.

[harvick#1]

I'll take Dixon, Franchitti, and Briscoe over Helio anyday, thats also you'll wont have a wrecked race car too at the end of the day

[NickFalzone]

Dixon earns 1 point for letting PT by and staying out of the way.......He was beside Dixon with tyres locked up.....Dixon must have thought....Hmmm...Better give him as much room as possible.....

Helio will know for next time.

Trust me, Helio will not know for next time. He's a lot like PT with the red mist. Once he's out of the car talking on camera it's all fun and games, but Helio has done this sort of thing too many times for me to believe it was just a mistake.

[peasant]

Dixon earns 1 point for letting PT by and staying out of the way.......He was beside Dixon with tyres locked up.....Dixon must have thought....Hmmm...Better give him as much room as possible.....

Helio will know for next time.

Good Call. Amazing how little his day has been talked about. His overtaking was outstanding, he got screwd by that last yellow more than tagliani, because tagliani was not able to hold him of on a restart - no one he took on was. 8th to 4th on the first lap, through straight out passing skill. Drove through the pack all day, and even after that last yellow penalty, to still get 4th.

Now explain to me why the guys who had the best strategy for the race get penalized because the minute it goes yellow, the pits get closed??? why can't they pit and then pick the leaders after the correct blendline - you know the one that used to be at the end of the pits, b4 Brian Barnhart decided once again to screw over paul tracy, this time in front of his home crowd. What was left of after the demise of champcar and the andretti/green style of Promotion. All this on top of the major issue of no overtaking on ovals, driver apologies and the monumental amount of issues still pertaining to tony georges Split, and - rumoured - subsequent demotion by his own family due to the failer of his 'merger'.

TV ratings comparison 79-95 versus 96-2009 anyone ??

Move along no problem here that can't be ignored in a kind of glass 1/20th full kind of way !

[chuck34]

Good Call. Amazing how little his day has been talked about. His overtaking was outstanding, he got screwd by that last yellow more than tagliani, because tagliani was not able to hold him of on a restart - no one he took on was. 8th to 4th on the first lap, through straight out passing skill. Drove through the pack all day, and even after that last yellow penalty, to still get 4th.

Now explain to me why the guys who had the best strategy for the race get penalized because the minute it goes yellow, the pits get closed??? why can't they pit and then pick the leaders after the correct blendline - you know the one that used to be at the end of the pits, b4 Brian Barnhart decided once again to screw over paul tracy, this time in front of his home crowd. What was left of after the demise of champcar and the andretti/green style of Promotion. All this on top of the major issue of no overtaking on ovals, driver apologies and the monumental amount of issues still pertaining to tony georges Split, and - rumoured - subsequent demotion by his own family due to the failer of his 'merger'.

TV ratings comparison 79-95 versus 96-2009 anyone ??

Move along no problem here that can't be ignored in a kind of glass 1/20th full kind of way !

Congratulations on taking a thread about racing and throwing in your own personal anti-IRL crap. Aren't there enough threads for you to spew that in?

As for the actual topic ...

I would take Dixon over Helio anyday. Except maybe 500 day. For whatever reason Helio is way better there than Dixon. That being said, if I was Penske, I'd be looking at a way to either expand to a three car team or somehow force Helio out. I'd want Briscoe and Will Power on my team.

[NickFalzone]

That being said, if I was Penske, I'd be looking at a way to either expand to a three car team or somehow force Helio out. I'd want Briscoe and Will Power on my team.

I like Helio, did even more so before this weekend's incident. But I think what you're saying is the unsaid reality now at Penske. I just get the feeling that Briscoe and Power are seen as the dominant pairing and Roger is keeping Helio on for other personal/professional reasons. Certainly Helio is a great driver, but Roger is well aware that thinking about building his team for the next 3-5 years, Power and Briscoe are his guys.

[SarahFan]

I like Helio, did even more so before this weekend's incident. But I think what you're saying is the unsaid reality now at Penske. I just get the feeling that Briscoe and Power are seen as the dominant pairing and Roger is keeping Helio on for other personal/professional reasons. Certainly Helio is a great driver, but Roger is well aware that thinking about building his team for the next 3-5 years, Power and Briscoe are his guys.


I think both power and briscoe are stout for certain....

but I bet Roger will run Helio 3 or 4 more times at Indy .......getting a fourth and potential 5 win would , obviosly, be historical

[Chris R]

I can see Helio going the way of Unser Sr., Mears or Fittipaldi within the Penske organization - maybe another year or two full time and then a year or two part time....

[TURN3]

I can see Helio going the way of Unser Sr., Mears or Fittipaldi within the Penske organization - maybe another year or two full time and then a year or two part time....


Maybe. Or more likely the Ribiero or deFerran route. I don't see Helio willingly getting out of the car full-time for a good long time. As ticked off as I am at him right now, he's still fighting for championships and race wins.

I don't see how Roger can't have Will in a 3rd car next year though. Any betters with 2 Aussies in Roger's stable what will reappear on the schedule?

[chuck34]

I can see Helio going the way of Unser Sr., Mears or Fittipaldi within the Penske organization - maybe another year or two full time and then a year or two part time....

That's sort of what I was thinking. The Al Sr. route seems likely.

[peasant]

Congratulations on taking a thread about racing and throwing in your own personal anti-IRL crap. Aren't there enough threads for you to spew that in?

As for the actual topic ...

I would take Dixon over Helio anyday. Except maybe 500 day. For whatever reason Helio is way better there than Dixon. That being said, if I was Penske, I'd be looking at a way to either expand to a three car team or somehow force Helio out. I'd want Briscoe and Will Power on my team.

Err yeah, probably should have put that in another thread, but hey a few drinks - post late at night and you get that!! Sorry.

I think Helio is advantaged at indy by the officiating. Briscoe certainly is looking stronger and stronger, power seems very fast at times, but a little mistake prone, but I'm sure he'll improve on that if he feels he has to prove himself a bit less.

[Chris R]

Maybe. Or more likely the Ribiero or deFerran route. I don't see Helio willingly getting out of the car full-time for a good long time. As ticked off as I am at him right now, he's still fighting for championships and race wins.

I don't see how Roger can't have Will in a 3rd car next year though. Any betters with 2 Aussies in Roger's stable what will reappear on the schedule?

although, unlike Ribero - Castroneves is still winning - I think deFerran was not unhappy to leave the then mostly oval IRL - but I could be wrong.... Fittapaldi and Unser Sr. wanted to continue to race but were clearly past their prime (although both still capable of winning at the time). Mears was ready to retire....

Penske is in a bit of a pickle in the sense that Castroneves is probably still better than (or at least as good as) both Power and Briscoe TODAY... He did stick by Castroneves through the trial when I doubt he had to - so there seems to be some bond of affection there....

Helio has never been THE best driver out there but he has always been very good (one of the best 5 or so) and continues to be so... Helios personality is his biggest strength and weakness - some people like him and some don't but he remains a competitive driver who still deserves his ride - he is just closer to the end of his career than the beginning...

He might be well served by starting a Penske satellite operation in a season or two and transitioning to an owner/driver and then a straight owner.....

[underpowered]

Helio has never been THE best driver out there but he has always been very good (one of the best 5 or so) and continues to be so... Helios personality is his biggest strength and weakness - some people like him and some don't but he remains a competitive driver who still deserves his ride - he is just closer to the end of his career than the beginning...


And he has never mentioned he wanted to be a NASCAR driver....nor has Scott.

They both both get a point for that.

[chuck34]

although, unlike Ribero - Castroneves is still winning - I think deFerran was not unhappy to leave the then mostly oval IRL - but I could be wrong.... Fittapaldi and Unser Sr. wanted to continue to race but were clearly past their prime (although both still capable of winning at the time). Mears was ready to retire....

Penske is in a bit of a pickle in the sense that Castroneves is probably still better than (or at least as good as) both Power and Briscoe TODAY... He did stick by Castroneves through the trial when I doubt he had to - so there seems to be some bond of affection there....

Helio has never been THE best driver out there but he has always been very good (one of the best 5 or so) and continues to be so... Helios personality is his biggest strength and weakness - some people like him and some don't but he remains a competitive driver who still deserves his ride - he is just closer to the end of his career than the beginning...

He might be well served by starting a Penske satellite operation in a season or two and transitioning to an owner/driver and then a straight owner.....

Today he may be. But there are signs there that he's slipping. Not that he is bad or anything. I just see signs of him not being quite as sharp as he once was. That being said, if Penske did let him go, any other team that didn't immediatly pick him up would do so at their own peril.

For that reason, your last bit might be one heck of a good idea. But I don't know how that would work with Jay already having pretty much a satellite operation. Maybe HCN could drive for him and buy in somehow? I don't know.

[peasant]

To be fair to Helio, He hardly had anything like a decent preparation for this season, so it would be unfair to judge him on this year. To me he's quick but lacks certain something that gets the results when really needed. Hence race wins but not championships. Very good - but not top notch. I wouldn't be retiring him just yet - what is he 33? hardly past it if he still has the passion for it. Couldn't see him as a team owner.