C.O.T, and other Restrictor Plate rules

[slorydn1]

Looking through the archived forum (thanks Mark for making it happen :up: ) I ran a search on my old posts. I found one (which happend to be my second post ever) which was in a thread in which we were having a discussion on restrictor plate racing and the cars themselves. This thread was started after the October 2001 race at Talladega (the one where Bobby Labonte was leading with one to go, blocked someone, I think it was Sterling Marlin, coming off of turn two, and ended up on his roof, handing Jr the win). We were having a heated discussion back and forth about plate sizes, track dimensions, (etc).

This was my contribution to that thread:



Ideas (post #27) October 25, 2001

"I will say this much. I have seen a great many ideas from people
like us who have little or now [sic] actual experience with racing, per se,
and the great majority of them are great ones. What I can't for the life of me understand is why all those highly paid, highly trained
"experts" can't seem to come up with any.
My last post not withstanding (and I do hate plates), at least they
could give them 1 inch plates, get rid of all that extra draft package, lower the spoilers back down, raise the green house, and mandate the shocks to make the cars handle poorly. The 1 inch plate would give them right around 500hp or so, and the extra drag of the higher greenhouse would roughly make the cars comparable to the late '80's cars (I can already hear the howels of displeasure) and keep the speeds right around 210....May be even someone would challenge
Bill Elliot's qualiying record, but we would not be seeing 230.
But I know I am dreaming, because Nascar hates the thought of anything
over 195...."

1 inch plate, Higher Greenhouse ? Sounds an awful lot like the car of tomorrow, doesn't it?

Nascar has been mandating the rear shocks since 2002.

They have done away with the spoiler and gone to a wing on the COT.

Maybe NASCAR reads these forums after al!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Jonesi]

They are hoping the CoT solves enough problems that they can get rid of the plates.

[RaceFanStan]

I think the COT is a big step in the right direction. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
No doubt there will be some tweaks made along the way.

I seriously doubt that the Car Of Tommorow will allow doing away with the restrictor plates ...
Perhaps the plates can be opened-up a little but NASCAR will never completely remove them. JMO

[Peter Olivola]

Restrictor plates can't/won't b eliminated until NASCAR can figure out how to live with fuel injection. Then it would go to an inlet restrictor. The difference is that the plates kill torque while the inlet restrictor only limits peak HP. The results would be to reduce the difference between an open and restricted engine from a design/development perspective, provide identical bottom end torque to an unrestricted engine allowing acceleration, and limit top speed exactly as the plates do now with far fewer side effects.

Since the plates produce pack racing it's resonable to expect inlet restrictors would do the same. The differenc is that the cars will have torque that could help get them out of trouble and provide opportunities to avoid the "big one."


I think the COT is a big step in the right direction. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
No doubt there will be some tweaks made along the way.

I seriously doubt that the Car Of Tommorow will allow doing away with the restrictor plates ...
Perhaps the plates can be opened-up a little but NASCAR will never completely remove them. JMO

[oldhippie]

it would be awesome if they took off the plates but i doubt that happens

[Robert Ryan]

Restrictor plates can't/won't b eliminated until NASCAR can figure out how to live with fuel injection.
Fuel Injection will give them a lot more flexibilty as well. Yes the extra torque is a real advantage.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I wonder then why the hold up on going to Fuel Injection?? NASCAR has proven they aren't afraid to make changes. I know policing for cheating might be tougher, but maybe a fuel injection supplier can make a bolt on kit that can be kept by NASCAR and placed on the motors at the race track with seals might be an option? I am not a mechanic but if possible, would be a lot like how CART used to hand out pop off valves to regulate the turbo pressure...


I know, someone is going to tell me this is a dumb idea, but we all agree Fuel Injection would give drivers a better chance of being able to jump in and out of the throttle on the big tracks to avoid trouble, so it is an idea.

[SmokeFan20]

I wonder then why the hold up on going to Fuel Injection?? NASCAR has proven they aren't afraid to make changes. I know policing for cheating might be tougher, but maybe a fuel injection supplier can make a bolt on kit that can be kept by NASCAR and placed on the motors at the race track with seals might be an option? I am not a mechanic but if possible, would be a lot like how CART used to hand out pop off valves to regulate the turbo pressure...


I know, someone is going to tell me this is a dumb idea, but we all agree Fuel Injection would give drivers a better chance of being able to jump in and out of the throttle on the big tracks to avoid trouble, so it is an idea.

I agree. NASCAR should go to fuel injection but make the teams run sealed fuel injection units supplied to them when they arrive at the track.

[Hoss Ghoul]

The first step towards fuel injection is the shift to non-leaded fuel. With Toyota coming in, the COT, etc, it is only a matter of time before we see fuel injection.

The question is how will they introduce it? I suspect a one or two year phase in program with current engine blocks, followed by either a) A NASCAR designed/approved "engine of the future" or b) modern stock block engines like Fords mod motors and GM's Gen III/IV LS engines. With fuel injection a balance could be met even with differeing displacements and valve-train technologies.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Could we see a 4 valve motor in the future?? Overhead Cam motors? With air restrictors, engines of different types could be regulated similar to what is happening in ALMS. We may end up with the potential for variety in motors where we have lost the variety in bodyshells. Of course this being NASCAR, I suspect there will be Carb's on the motors for at least 5 years, so I wont hold my breath....

[Hoss Ghoul]

Could we see a 4 valve motor in the future?? Overhead Cam motors? With air restrictors, engines of different types could be regulated similar to what is happening in ALMS. We may end up with the potential for variety in motors where we have lost the variety in bodyshells. Of course this being NASCAR, I suspect there will be Carb's on the motors for at least 5 years, so I wont hold my breath....

That's exactly what I'm saying. I think we are well beyond the days of ever seeing true stock car racing on ovals, but it is not out of the realm of possibility that we'll see fuel injected cars of varying design duking it out in the future.

The ALMS formula isn't perfect and neither would NASCAR be, but it would sure give us car fans something else to watch and root for in NASCAR.

Just imagine Chevy LS2's or LS7's duking it out v.s. 5.4 DOHC Ford Mod motors v.s. Dodge Hemi's v.s. Toyota....oh, uh, well, err....Turbo Supra engines? Hell, it doesn't have to be a V8!

[BenRoethig]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I think we are well beyond the days of ever seeing true stock car racing on ovals, but it is not out of the realm of possibility that we'll see fuel injected cars of varying design duking it out in the future.

The ALMS formula isn't perfect and neither would NASCAR be, but it would sure give us car fans something else to watch and root for in NASCAR.

Just imagine Chevy LS2's or LS7's duking it out v.s. 5.4 DOHC Ford Mod motors v.s. Dodge Hemi's v.s. Toyota....oh, uh, well, err....Turbo Supra engines? Hell, it doesn't have to be a V8!

I don't think we're taking about that. I think the idea would be to replace the carburetor with fuel injectors. With the exception of the carbs, NASCAR uses very advanced OHV engines.

[BenRoethig]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I think we are well beyond the days of ever seeing true stock car racing on ovals, but it is not out of the realm of possibility that we'll see fuel injected cars of varying design duking it out in the future.

The ALMS formula isn't perfect and neither would NASCAR be, but it would sure give us car fans something else to watch and root for in NASCAR.

Just imagine Chevy LS2's or LS7's duking it out v.s. 5.4 DOHC Ford Mod motors v.s. Dodge Hemi's v.s. Toyota....oh, uh, well, err....Turbo Supra engines? Hell, it doesn't have to be a V8!

I don't think we're taking about that. I think the idea would be to replace the carburetor with fuel injectors. With the exception of the carbs, NASCAR uses very advanced OHV engines.

[RaceFanStan]

Don't forget that NASCAR is all about control.
IF there is a way NASCAR can police fuel injection it may happen.
However if NASCAR can't police fuel injection it will NEVER happen ! :eek:

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't think we're taking about that. I think the idea would be to replace the carburetor with fuel injectors. With the exception of the carbs, NASCAR uses very advanced OHV engines.

You realize that a pushrod v-8 and advanced shouldnt really go together in the same sentence...

It amazes me the amount of refinement NASCAR engine builders have put into these things but when you get right down to it, the motors are still very crude. Carbs are not precise, Pushrod valvetrains are limited in how much punishment they can take.....in short, it is still a very powerful motor, but it is limited.

Of course though, the point is made. If NASCAR can control things, they will allow the advancement. I guess they haven't put much thought to a Fuel Injection system that can be controlled or policed through NASCAR. I know they don't want computers running any part of the motor. When you have a computer, you can hack it....

[Hoss Ghoul]

You realize that a pushrod v-8 and advanced shouldnt really go together in the same sentence...



Strongly disagree.

The Gen III/IV Chevy small blocks are very advanced, there's nothing wrong with refinining a technology and pushing it's limits.

The LS7 in the Corvette Z06 makes 505hp and can achieve as much as 30mpg...I don't see any DOHC multi-valved engines coming even close to that number naturally aspirated or otherwise.

[call_me_andrew]

I don't see why NASCAR has to freak out when the cars break 200 these days. They're built a lot safer than they were 6 years ago. I think Geoffrey Bodine showed us all that the catch fence can stop an airborne car.

I think I've stated how I feel about fuel injection and OHC engines. I'm just not sure where I stated that anymore.