All EU-based manufacturers, in F1 or no, condemn FIA mismanagement

[Somebody]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21560.html
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76093
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38169

[ioan]

About time for the strong ones to kick him out.
Max started acting like if he owns the automotive world.

[yodasarmpit]

I'm sorry, but F1 is not a showcase for motor manufacturers.
It is a racing series and I want to see participants who want to race, and not promote their brand.

I would like to see the big names remain, such as Ferrari, but F1 can live on without them.

[VkmSpouge]

Before today I had never of this group. Maybe the car manufacturers should worry about the car market and let their teams make their own case, which as recent times has again shown the teams are perfectly capable of doing.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I'm sorry, but F1 is not a showcase for motor manufacturers.
It is a racing series and I want to see participants who want to race, and not promote their brand.

I would like to see the big names remain, such as Ferrari, but F1 can live on without them.

I second that comment.

its not just the FIA who are acting like idiots, its the manurfacturer teams aswell.

[TMorel]

But I thought Max was always harping on about road cars / road safety / developments flowing back up the chain. If that's the case then people need to listen to them. If he was just talking crap then he can carry on with things as normal.

[wmcot]

About time for the strong ones to kick him out.
Max started acting like if he owns the automotive world.

I would delete the word automotive in your second sentence!

[ioan]

I would delete the word automotive in your second sentence!

I was trying not to upset Max's cronies.

As you can see from their posts they are already kicking tams and manufacturers altogether while sucking up to Maxie!

[call_me_andrew]

I'm sorry, but F1 is not a showcase for motor manufacturers.
It is a racing series and I want to see participants who want to race, and not promote their brand.

I would like to see the big names remain, such as Ferrari, but F1 can live on without them.

A racing series is a showcase for motor manufacturers.

[F1boat]

I agree. Max must get out. I won't watch battle between Campos and Epsilon or whatever the bloody name is!

[markabilly]

Good riddance to that worm infested old bag of bones F*****International A****les

If they were worth anything, they never would have sold their soul to bernie (but Max would not have gotten his $300,000,000 gift in return from Bernie)---which is what the latest dust up is all about, maXie wants all little taste under the table from bernie to smooth things over


About time for the strong ones to kick him out.
Max started acting like if he owns the automotive world.


Bernie needs to go as well as it has always been the two of them, not merely one or the other :mad:

[Nikki Katz]

I actually don't think that F1 would survive long if 8 of the current 10 teams all pulled out at the end of the year. However, I think that any new series would also have difficulty establishing themselves, even if it did have most of the F1 teams in it. Also, 8 teams of 2 cars would only give 16 cars, and I think that Renault might take the opportunity to bolt altogether, so there would have to be 3 car teams to make the series work. Red Bull would therefore then have 6 cars...

[Somebody]

I would be unsurprised to find that FOTA were courting some of the wannabe teams like Lola or N Technology in case they ultimately do take the nuclear option...

[Nikki Katz]

I would be unsurprised to find that FOTA were courting some of the wannabe teams like Lola or N Technology in case they ultimately do take the nuclear option...
Right, but that would really depend on what rules were in place - if there's no budget cap at all and chassis sharing isn't allowed (which will be easier without Force India, and Toro Rosso are supposed to be building their own next year), then any new teams would seriously struggle.

[ClarkFan]

A racing series is a showcase for motor manufacturers.

Unless you would propose to race bicycles or horses!

ClarkFan

[nigelred5]

I'm sorry, but F1 is not a showcase for motor manufacturers.
It is a racing series and I want to see participants who want to race, and not promote their brand.

I would like to see the big names remain, such as Ferrari, but F1 can live on without them.

I agree, I'd love to see F1 go back to a series primarily contested by private teams with the manufacturers steping back to only providing engines as it was until the turn of hte century. I if you really look at what Mosely is doing with his cost cuts, I think it's pretty clear he does as well, he just has different motivation for changes, but the end result is the same. Despite their objections to the massive budget cuts, Ferrari will always be the exception and possibly Renault who I suspect would stay if the budgets are far smaller.

[veeten]

response from the FIA to ACEA, and with a bonus...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76236

[yodasarmpit]

Awesome response from the FIA.

"By reducing their costs of competition in Formula 1, ACEA's members will be able to apply the much-needed savings to their core business, to finance payroll, working capital, capital investments, marketing programmes and dealer support. This will also reduce the industry's need to seek funding from taxpayers or shareholders.

[mstillhere]

I if you really look at what Mosely is doing with his cost cuts, I think it's pretty clear he does as well, he just has different motivation for changes, but the end result is the same.

I disagree, Mosley is not making F1 cheaper nor more competitive, as many F1 team principals have been saying and Mosley is not the only one in the world who knows exactely how to save money in F1. But, if you like F1, actually sorry, F3 under Mosley's administration, be my guest. Just do me a favor, if Ferrari and the other FOTA teams start their series, please don't watch it. I am sure you'll have plenty of entertainment watching the Campos, Elite, and whatever else F3 is going to show you.

[Malbec]

I agree, I'd love to see F1 go back to a series primarily contested by private teams with the manufacturers steping back to only providing engines as it was until the turn of hte century. I if you really look at what Mosely is doing with his cost cuts, I think it's pretty clear he does as well, he just has different motivation for changes, but the end result is the same.

The end result is not the same.

Max's proposals and widesweeping changes every few years cost a bomb. KERS didn't come for free, teams spent hundreds of millions of dollars on their systems. Cutting budgets to $45 million is great on paper, how much is it going to cost teams to pay redundancy costs for hundreds of employees and decommission all those wind tunnels and expensive kit? And before people talk about hitting manufacturers, independent teams like RBR, Force India and Williams will have to pay those costs too. What guarantees are there that in a couple of years there won't be some sudden rules changes requiring the teams to hire staff again?

Many of the FOTA proposals are sustainable and don't require much upheaval for the existing teams while cutting costs significantly.

But we're missing the point here, ACEA is not complaining about the cost cuts, its complaining about the process by which the FIA makes decisions, something that cuts deeper and affects the way the FIA is perceived in everything it does regardless of whether its motorsport related.

[ioan]

I agree, I'd love to see F1 go back to a series primarily contested by private teams with the manufacturers steping back to only providing engines as it was until the turn of hte century.

And I would love f1 to go back to it's roots, where manufacturers were racing only while privateers couldn't field a car half as fast.

[ioan]

The end result is not the same.

Max's proposals and widesweeping changes every few years cost a bomb. KERS didn't come for free, teams spent hundreds of millions of dollars on their systems. Cutting budgets to $45 million is great on paper, how much is it going to cost teams to pay redundancy costs for hundreds of employees and decommission all those wind tunnels and expensive kit? And before people talk about hitting manufacturers, independent teams like RBR, Force India and Williams will have to pay those costs too. What guarantees are there that in a couple of years there won't be some sudden rules changes requiring the teams to hire staff again?

Many of the FOTA proposals are sustainable and don't require much upheaval for the existing teams while cutting costs significantly.

But we're missing the point here, ACEA is not complaining about the cost cuts, its complaining about the process by which the FIA makes decisions, something that cuts deeper and affects the way the FIA is perceived in everything it does regardless of whether its motorsport related.

Excellent points! Glad to see that not everyone is missing the point of this FOTA vs FIA war.

[ArrowsFA1]

But we're missing the point here, ACEA is not complaining about the cost cuts, its complaining about the process by which the FIA makes decisions, something that cuts deeper and affects the way the FIA is perceived in everything it does regardless of whether its motorsport related.
Something that the FIA response entirely (unsurprisingly!) ignores.

[wmcot]

I agree, I'd love to see F1 go back to a series primarily contested by private teams with the manufacturers steping back to only providing engines as it was until the turn of hte century. I if you really look at what Mosely is doing with his cost cuts, I think it's pretty clear he does as well, he just has different motivation for changes, but the end result is the same.

You need to look at the history of Max's "cost cuts" over the past several seasons (start with 2005 if you wish.) His "cost cutting" has basically required each manufacturer (private or not) to re-design their car completely each year. How is Max accomplishing his "cost cutting?" I actually believe that Max has kept up these changes to artificially increase the cost of running an F1 team in order to force his ultimate plan of forcing the manufacturer backed teams out and running a cheap, neutered, racing series with him holding absolute dominion over it.

F1 should have room for both manufacturer backed and private teams. With constant rules and specifications, no team will be forced to spend massive amounts each year to stay competitive. The cars would gradually evolve at a slow rate rather than having to adapt to Max's wholesale changes in the rules.

Max fears the manufacturers and the power they could obtain by staying united.

Max is all about power, not saving the world's car manufacturers money!

[ioan]

Max is all about power, not saving the world's car manufacturers money!

Looking forward to his downfall!
It will provide plenty of entertainment given that dictators usually go down with a huge boom.

[Malbec]

I actually believe that Max has kept up these changes to artificially increase the cost of running an F1 team in order to force his ultimate plan of forcing the manufacturer backed teams out and running a cheap, neutered, racing series with him holding absolute dominion over it.

Max is all about power, not saving the world's car manufacturers money!

Of course the other theory is that by being in a perpetual war with the car manufacturers over F1, he is 'proving' to the FIA that they need his strong leadership to keep those pesky teams under control. It is indeed all about retaining power! 'Cutting costs' is merely the method which he has chosen to keep that war going with.