Other seriesÂ’ losses could be the IRLÂ’s gain

[MDS]

So… it’s looking more and more like Acura is going to transition some or all of its ALMS teams to the IRL in 2010, also the future of A1GP looks doubtful, they only have two dates announced for the next season that starts at the end of the season. Conceivably there could be an influx of new teams, sponsors and driver talent that could surpass what the merge brought in.

ALMS
de Ferran Motorsport is all but announced that they are coming in 2010 with Takumo Sato and Panasonic/Honda support. My guess is they’ll have a second seat with Simone Pagenaud or Scott Dixon according to the rumors

Adrian Fernandez says they’re working on bringing his team to the IRL next year. My bet is he’ll have some Honda support and Lowes might step up their involvement with Louis Diaz in one seat. I’ve heard rumors, and I still hear rumors that Tecate is interested in the IRL, but really wants Houston back on the schedule, since that’s an important market for them. The latest thing I heard is that Tecate is considering being the name sponsor for Houston and considering significant sponsorship of a Mexican driver, so Diaz, David Martinez and Mario Dominguez would all be in the mix you would think.

Highcroft, don’t know that they’re ready to move up to the IRL, but the fact that Patron came back with Scott Sharp says something. I have no idea what will happen with them.

A1GP
The most notable opportunity an A1GP collapse opens up is returning to Surfer’s Paradise. I’m honestly surprised they managed to complete a whole season this year and I have no idea how much longer then can compete.

There are a host of good drivers out there, Adam Carroll, Neel Jani, Alvaro Parente, Nicolas Lapierre, but I’m also wondering what would happen with the teams. I’m sure some would evaporate, and its possible that a number of them will go into series in their own nation, but its also conceivable that you could see a team like A1GP Mexico transition into the IRL.

[SarahFan]

bring em all on....

[SoCalPVguy]

Your comments re. A1GP and ALMS are well taken.

Let me point out also that it appears there could be a "split" in F-1 next year.

Per the "daily Express"...
Bernie Ecclestone has warned FOTA's members that if they start a breakaway championship he won't hesitate to sue them for "hundreds of millions of pounds". With the FIA set to publish next year's entry list on Friday, time is running out for the teams and the FIA to find a solution to the on-going political war. However, the FOTA teams, which include all the existing outfits barring Williams and Force India, have made it clear that if their two conditions - next year's championship to run under the same rules as this year's and for a new Concorde Agreement to be signed by June 12th - aren't met, they will start their own series. Ecclestone, though, has warned them they could face heavy legal action should they do so.


Instead of starting a separate break away "F1-like" series, FOTA teams could consider ICS as an outlet either to tempoarily keep teams employed of get revenge on Bernie by supporting another series with an eye towrads building it up and eventually eclipsing F1. I doubt Berie could sue these teams if they simply went to another established series and did not start a competing series.

[NickFalzone]

The DeFerran move has been rumored for awhile and Sharp also has expressed interest in a full IRL ride using his Patron sponsorship. I'll believe a mass influx to the IRL when I see it, but I do agree that this will at least minimally help keep car count in the low to mid 20s next season.

[DBell]

Without a Mexican round in the series, I doubt there would be any serious Mexican involvement. Still, if this does add some new quality teams to the series, it would be welcome.

[Lousada]

I think if the ALMS teams join in, AGR will lose one or two cars.
I don't think the IRL will be back to Surfer's anytime soon. On TF a team representative said that the race was a moneyloser for all the teams.

[El Libertador]

I'm not sold on much of this...the only thing I believe at this point is De Ferran's team. I agree with Lousada...if De Ferran joins, AGR's down to at least 3 (Mutoh money's gone, Honda will side with DFM), if Danica leaves, probably two (I don't see them attracting sponsorship for both JR Hildebrand and Marco, as much as I'd like to see JR in the series).

Audi is rumored to be coming back full-time in ALMS...Acura's main concern, at least according to reports, is a lack of competition. Porsche is allegedly working on an LMP1 for 2010, so if Audi returns, Porsche probably will, and Acura may want to stay. Additionally, LMS is the leading option for the FOTA teams, which does leave a small, small chance of a Toyota, Renault (Nissan), or Ferrari LMP1 in ALMS (at least for Sebring and Petit...if those prototypes actually get built. I'm not sure they will).

I don't really know much about the Highcroft and Fernandez situation but I can't see the former in IndyCar. Fernandez may make sense, but the rumor of a Mexican race is kind of quiet now.

I don't see European-based A1 teams coming to the IRL if that series folds. I don't know where they'd go but I don't think it'd be here.

[speeddurango]

Pretty much wrong on Surfers, irl doesn't go to Surfers willingly, and that's why A1GP has taken it, if A1GP goes under, Surfers event may not even continue. And A1 doesn't compete with irl in most other ways, they don't even race on the same continent! That means they're not in the same market.

And really, don't expect other series to fall just to benefit irl, irl has been doing that for a long time, and still it continued to fall, what irl has to do is find to way to improve its own product from the inside.

[anthonyvop]

Some Blogger with the name of an omnivore writes an unsubstantiated rumors and people take it as fact.

Did he ask anyone from Acura?

I did.

[MDS]

I didn't say they were all leaving, just that two are seriously trying to expand or transition out of the series. Honestly, Anthony you're suppsoedly a reporter. What do you think A1GP's odds are of making it to 2010?

Both de Ferran and Fernandez are considering moving to the IRL. I think de Ferran is ahead of Fernandez, but Adrian is still working on it. He and I both worked at Patrick for a while in the 90s and I ran into him at Long Beach. We talked for a little bit and he asked me if I was going to go back to racing ever and I asked him if he was going to the IRL and he said he had some options and some support from Honda to do so.

He was also talking about how much Houston and Mexico coming on board in 2010 would help his cause with several Mexican sponsors if Houston and Mexico City were added to schedule.

[anthonyvop]

I do not follow A1GP that closely but the rumor of their demise has been a constant since before they even turned a wheel on the track. I do know that they typically finalize their season schedule around the end of summer so only two dates confirmed is not surprising.

Deferran, Highcroft and Fernadez have all been talking about running cars in the IRL but nobody has stated that they were abandoning the ALMS let alone Acura.

[MDS]

Pretty much wrong on Surfers, irl doesn't go to Surfers willingly, and that's why A1GP has taken it, if A1GP goes under, Surfers event may not even continue.

The money didn't work for all the teams, but that could have been settled. The real reason A1GP took over Surfer's is because the Aussie's wouldn't accept anything other than that one weekend. They ran that race in the spring for six years, from the second week of March to the first of April. Had they been willing to move to a March date Surfer's would have be on the schedule this year


And really, don't expect other series to fall just to benefit irl, irl has been doing that for a long time, and still it continued to fall, what irl has to do is find to way to improve its own product from the inside.

I don't really disagree with you, but I doubt the IRL's ability to improve as long as TG has the reins.

[Colin_Harvey]

Instead of starting a separate break away "F1-like" series, FOTA teams could consider ICS as an outlet either to tempoarily keep teams employed of get revenge on Bernie by supporting another series with an eye towrads building it up and eventually eclipsing F1. I doubt Berie could sue these teams if they simply went to another established series and did not start a competing series.

The thought of Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes, Renault, etc and drivers like Kimi Raikkonen, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, etc turning up to Iowa Speedway to race spec cars and engines in front of a few thousand fans, with even less watching on TV, makes me want to laugh like I've never laughed before.

[NickFalzone]

The thought of Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes, Renault, etc and drivers like Kimi Raikkonen, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, etc turning up to Iowa Speedway to race spec cars and engines in front of a few thousand fans, with even less watching on TV, makes me want to laugh like I've never laughed before.

Right, like a parade in Istanbul in front of a whopping 11,000 spectators is such an improvement. I wouldn't be surprised to see some smaller teams show up in the IRL, but obviously you're right on the McLarens, Ferraris, and Renaults. That would be pretty funny if it happened though.

[SoCalPVguy]

The thought of Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes, Renault, etc and drivers like Kimi Raikkonen, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, etc turning up to Iowa Speedway to race spec cars and engines in front of a few thousand fans, with even less watching on TV, makes me want to laugh like I've never laughed before.


Laugh away... but... this rumor is making the rounds a week after I wrote that...

"Luca di Montezemolo shocked the reporters' pack at Le Mans, as he hinted the Indy 500 as a possible destination for Ferrari in case of a break-up with the FOTA constructors and failure in getting an agreement with FIA. The arrival of Ferrari would require rule changes, Montezemolo said, though it'll be a viable option."

[beachbum]

Laugh away... but... this rumor is making the rounds a week after I wrote that...

"Luca di Montezemolo shocked the reporters' pack at Le Mans, as he hinted the Indy 500 as a possible destination for Ferrari in case of a break-up with the FOTA constructors and failure in getting an agreement with FIA. The arrival of Ferrari would require rule changes, Montezemolo said, though it'll be a viable option."Politics. I don't believe anything I read about the verbal posturing of various F1 people. Everything they say has multiple meanings for multiple audiences. FIAT could some day end in in the IRL as an engine supplier, but even that is wild speculation.

I don't see how the the failure of the various racing series would make a big difference to the state of the IRL, although there is a historical precedent. I was reading a book about Rick Mears and he mentioned that part of the influx of teams into open wheel came when Can-Am died and the teams needed some place to race. The closest parallel today is the ALMS, but today they have an alternative, Grand-Am, which is similar racing with different cars. Penske has already made that move. I would expect that a failure of ALMS would benefit Grand-Am and not the IRL.

As for any failure of a foreign series like A1GP, those teams will more likely stay local and race in their own regions in some other series.

The only real benefits of other series running into trouble is reducing the options where sponsors can spend marketing funds. All US racing series are feeling the pinch, and trouble in other series make cause a sponsor to look at the IRL as a cheaper alternative. But with the overall state of the economy, that too may not have much punch as some sponsors may just abandon racing as a marketing tool. Most business people expect Motorola to go away at the end of their contract. People tend to forget that they came on board during the cellular "wars" when every supplier and carrier was fighting for market share and jumping into sports marketing. Now, the industry is consolidating and the war has been lost for many companies. The incentive (and money) for sports marketing has dried up for them.

With the auto companies in bankruptcy and pulling funds from NASCAR and other racing, the competition for independent sponsors will go up as teams need to replace that funding, which is a negative for other series.

IMHO, the positives balance the negatives, and the IRL will just have to grow on its own merits.

[ShiftingGears]

Why would F1 teams go to the IRL when they're threatening to leave because of FIA trying to turn F1 into a spec series?

Dumb idea. Besides, they wouldn't be remotely interested anyway, outside of Indy. I don't blame them.

[Colin_Harvey]

Right, like a parade in Istanbul in front of a whopping 11,000 spectators is such an improvement.

And a few hundred million watching on TV...

[garyshell]

Right, like a parade in Istanbul in front of a whopping 11,000 spectators is such an improvement. I wouldn't be surprised to see some smaller teams show up in the IRL, but obviously you're right on the McLarens, Ferraris, and Renaults. That would be pretty funny if it happened though.


And a few hundred million watching on TV...

And of those few hundred million, how much did they contirbute in any fashion to the bottom line of the race promoter? My understanding is the track/promoter gets $0 from the TV rights.

Gary

[MDS]

As far as Ferrari coming to the IRL, I can't see that happening. The IRL isn't a stepping stone for F-1 anymore and they're unhappy with the prospect of one spec series so I can't see them jumping to another. They would however have enough money to buy the series if they wanted to...

I don't really see the prospect of any Euro teams coming to the US with the exception of A1GP Mexico's principal ownership and management should that series fold.

Would make sense to me is some of these upper lower tier teams came to America to build their sponsorship base and technical ability. It could see teams like Litespeed or iSport to start an IRL team because no series they race in has a lenghty schedule, and it would be easier to make their case for F-1 entry if you have a successful ladder series entry and a solid North American operation.

[Colin_Harvey]

And of those few hundred million, how much did they contirbute in any fashion to the bottom line of the race promoter? My understanding is the track/promoter gets $0 from the TV rights.

Gary

What does that have to do with F1 teams going to Indycar (or not, as the more accurate case may be)?? The point is that the marketing people at the likes of Vodafone, Marlboro, Red Bull, Panasonic, Renault, Ferrari, BMW et al would not exactly be relishing the thought of racing in Indycar with a few hundred thousand watching on TV, when in F1 they race in front of hundreds of millions of TV viewers.

[beachbum]

What does that have to do with F1 teams going to Indycar (or not, as the more accurate case may be)?? The point is that the marketing people at the likes of Vodafone, Marlboro, Red Bull, Panasonic, Renault, Ferrari, BMW et al would not exactly be relishing the thought of racing in Indycar with a few hundred thousand watching on TV, when in F1 they race in front of hundreds of millions of TV viewers.And they are paying dearly for that exposure in F1. The other point to consider is that F1 is important in all markets except the US where the number of people watching on TV is comparable to the number watching the IRL. (No I don't have a link - I can't find the comparison now, but the numbers for F1 were thrown around when F1 left Indy).

Those sponsors are looking for world wide exposure in F1. If they were worried about enhancing their marketing in the US, they would already be here with sponsor packages. Vodaphone has no reason to advertise in the US, not does Renault. Marlboro and Red Bull are already here, Panasonic has been, and Ferrari and BMW are focused on sports cars. They are poor examples as even if F1 died tomorrow, they wouldn't have any marketing reason to expand their existing exposure in the US.

[Lee Roy]

And they are paying dearly for that exposure in F1. The other point to consider is that F1 is important in all markets except the US where the number of people watching on TV is comparable to the number watching the IRL. (No I don't have a link - I can't find the comparison now, but the numbers for F1 were thrown around when F1 left Indy).


Exposure in the US?

Formula One is mostly on a niche channel (SpeedTV) with occasional races races on network TV (Fox).

Indy Car is mostly on a niche channel (Versus - where it gets zeropointsomeinsignificantnumber ratings) with occasional races on network TV (ABC).

What does Indy Car have for sponsors here in the US that Formula One doesn't already have?

[nigelred5]

Nothing.

[nigelred5]

What does that have to do with F1 teams going to Indycar (or not, as the more accurate case may be)?? The point is that the marketing people at the likes of Vodafone, Marlboro, Red Bull, Panasonic, Renault, Ferrari, BMW et al would not exactly be relishing the thought of racing in Indycar with a few hundred thousand watching on TV, when in F1 they race in front of hundreds of millions of TV viewers.

I agree.
Vodafone is part owner of Verizon IIRC and is already well marketed. Panasonic already sponsors Mutoh. Marlboro can't openly sponsor anyone in anything. Redbull has already said it had no interest in returning to Indycars in any major way. Manufacturers? who has ANY money for more than token support these days. Renault and BMW are tenuous at staying in racing at all. They are scaling back everything, and it's not like Indycar is any sort of replacement for F1 in any form.

Until the economy rebounds strongly, no one is entertaining more than NEW involvement is anything, and even when the economy does finally rebound, I strongly suspect that what I like to call luxury marketing deals by companies, including auto manufacturers, in sports like autoracing, are likely to be very slow to recover, if ever. Manufacturers running teams on $200 million dollar+ annual budgets, whilst the companies are operating deep in the red and thousands of their employees are losing their jobs isn't good business.

I still won't be shocked to see Renault, Toyota and BMW say to he!! with it all and throw in the major league racing towel altogether. None of them need F1 or Indycars, and if anything, I think the lack of success in F1 the past few seasons has hurt more than helped to begin with.

Right now, ALL racing is going to suffer some serious pain. Maybe they will need to drop back down closer to the grassroots again. IMHO, bigtime, Major- League level racing is gone as we know it for a while.

[Jag_Warrior]

The IRL isn't a stepping stone for F-1 anymore

Anymore??? Hey ya know, I'm not dating Christie Brinkley anymore either. :rotflmao:

j/k. I know what you meant. That just struck me as funny.

Once upon a time Ferrari made a threat to go Indy Car racing. Since they built a chassis, I'd say the threat was real. But that was in another place and another time... seems like a lifetime ago. As the IRL rules stand now, I don't see even the slightest chance in hell that Ferrari would go to a series where they'd be required to use a Honda powered spec chassis. An LMP1/P2 car, I could see in a couple of years. But it would likely be a Ferrari chassis, and definitely would be powered by a Ferrari engine.

No matter what Montezemolo said, FOTA and the FIA are looking to make up. I'm not going to get a date with Christie and the IRL is not going to get a date with Ferrari or McLaren. Luca is just throwing names out to make Maxie & Bernie jealous.

[Mark in Oshawa]

And of those few hundred million, how much did they contirbute in any fashion to the bottom line of the race promoter? My understanding is the track/promoter gets $0 from the TV rights.

Gary

Gary, you miss the point of f1 economics. AS long as Bernie gets paid, then the race is a success. The reason we have Turkey, China, Malaysia, Abu Dhabi and Bahrain in f1 now, and France, Canada and the US of A gone is that the promotors in this part of the world WONT pay Bernie for those races, and these nations wanting to put their country on the map for political reasons WILL.

AS for the TV ratings for f1, I still don't really enjoy watching f1 on TV. TV slows all forms of racing down to me, and when you factor in the lack of competitive passing, I fail to understand why euros will watch f1 like they do but they do.


As for the ALMS teams going to the IRL? Dream on, maybe De Ferran comes over but ACURA money will keep them over there if Audi and other make an effort to stay in the series. The economics and marketing of the ALMS didn't change this year so radically that ACURA is re evaluating dumping the sport all together. I think it is up to the teams, and where they can get funding.

I think unless the IRL opens up the rules a little, I cant see any point in many teams making the jump right now. A new chassis might be needed to draw people in, since no one is going to feel good about buying a bunch of Dallaras and being up to 5 years behind Roger Penske in developing them. No one wants to sign up to get their @ss kicked...