Resurrecting a flower [Archive]

Placid

7th June 2009, 00:06

With 6 days away, Litespeed - if approved by the
FIA - announces the ressurrection to be named
their team as "Team Lotus". First it was Lola,
then March, then Brabham. Now which new team will
resurrect another old team. Got Gold and Green? Or Gold
and Black?

Report:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38118

yodasarmpit

7th June 2009, 01:41

wow

Jag_Warrior

7th June 2009, 02:50

Gold & black, please.

Well, I guess if all the high power teams leave, at least we'll have some nostalgic team names to cheer for.

Maybe the drivers can assume the names of past legends too. Someone can play Mario Andretti and someone else can play James Hunt and someone else can play Niki Lauda. Hell, why not?

VkmSpouge

7th June 2009, 02:52

Well now, that's just one more reason why I want Litespeed, now Team Lotus on the grid next year :D

ArrowsFA1

7th June 2009, 09:00

Litespeed are Litespeed, not Lotus, and they should enter F1 under their own name.

Hawkmoon

7th June 2009, 09:24

They can call it Lotus. Doesn't make it so.

Tazio

7th June 2009, 09:35

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) :mark: :p :

BDunnell

7th June 2009, 09:40

Instinctively, I don't like it. Given that Lotus is an extant car manufacturer, I think its name should only be used by a works F1 effort. Imagine the Ferrari name being used by a team that wasn't actually Ferrari the manufacturer. It would be a travesty, no matter how good the team.

ioan

7th June 2009, 10:23

BDunnell

7th June 2009, 10:28

Whatever!

Now we get Litespeed under Lotus guise, Prodrive under Aston Martin guise, team whatever under Brabham guise, team nobody under March guise and so we will have F3 under F1 guise!

What a farce!

Prodrive and Aston Martin I don't mind at all, because of the close link between team and manufacturer through David Richards' financial involvement in the consortium that bought AM.

jens

7th June 2009, 10:43

Never been a fan of that "old names coming back" stuff, especially if they are simply names and have nothing to add to the legendary heritage of a former great team. Please, let Lotus stay in history.

Caroline

7th June 2009, 10:49

Nostalgia sells - I think that is the reason for these teams reappearing. Sponsors will be attracted to a 'name' (perhaps).

I agree that the Aston Martin/Prodrive entry seems the only team to apply with some authenticity. Personally I think it will be great to see Prodrive entering the championship.

Tazio

7th June 2009, 10:49

ioan

7th June 2009, 11:14

Prodrive and Aston Martin I don't mind at all, because of the close link between team and manufacturer through David Richards' financial involvement in the consortium that bought AM.

You're right, that entry is justified, I exaggerated a bit there.

Sonic

7th June 2009, 11:44

Who are they trying to kid? As a cynical marketing ploy it might just about work for a heartbeat until potential investors realise they are buying into nothing that even resembles the proud history of Lotus.

I would LOVE to see the names of Lotus etc back in the sport but only if entered by the factory or rightful owner of the brand.

Sonic

7th June 2009, 11:53

I would LOVE to see the names of Lotus etc back in the sport but only if entered by the factory or rightful owner of the brand.

And perhaps I should get my facts right before I post! Just been reading up on this and David Hunt is fully behind the venture, and with J Herbert back on board its starting to feel a little more like team lotus.

I've got mixed emotions on this now. I'd like to see them back, but not as a half baked version.

BDunnell

7th June 2009, 14:44

And perhaps I should get my facts right before I post! Just been reading up on this and David Hunt is fully behind the venture, and with J Herbert back on board its starting to feel a little more like team lotus.

The same David Hunt who was prepared in 1995 to see the Team Lotus branding stuck on a Pacific...

Dave B

7th June 2009, 14:45

There's got to be a rhyming slang joke, but for the life of me I can't think of one. :erm:

UltimateDanGTR

7th June 2009, 16:31

Piquet jnr is the obvious choice for Lotus now! :D Now id rather see toyota, renault, red bull, ferrari and bmw go offf and create GP1 with bernie now aslong as there is still an F1 with williams, brawn, force india and mclaren in partnered by great names like lotus, brabham, lola, aston in a few years.

oh, how i hope.............

christophulus

7th June 2009, 17:07

I don't see a real problem with resurrecting old names, as long as the cars they make are competitive. A new team that carefully selects its workforce has a good chance of success in the budget cap era, if that's where we're heading.

Renaming is a great way to attract sponsors, and grabs the interest of the public. Sure, it's a cynical marketing ploy, but that's how the world works nowadays.. :p

ArrowsFA1

7th June 2009, 17:46

Sure, it's a cynical marketing ploy, but that's how the world works nowadays..
Sadly :(

V12

7th June 2009, 18:40

I'm in two minds on this. Great to see old names coming back, but at the same time, I think these new entrants would be better off entering under their own name and aiming to create their own history and legacy.

It's basically like Colin Chapman deciding in the early 50s to brand his new cars as Sunbeams or something like that because the name had more history and was more evocative than naming it after some far-eastern flower...

BDunnell

7th June 2009, 18:42

Sonic

7th June 2009, 20:54

Side note. If Lotus or Brabham etc are reborn would any wins, points, poles etc be added to their forebearers records or would they be starting anew? Just a thought.

K-Pu

7th June 2009, 23:19

Side note. If Lotus or Brabham etc are reborn would any wins, points, poles etc be added to their forebearers records or would they be starting anew? Just a thought.

I hope not...

I don´t want to see these names back, because they´d be hollow names.

Imagine I have enough money to run my FGP team in F1. Tierra de Pinares does not sound very F1-ish, so I could call it...Ferrari! No, no wait... Someone told me that name is already in use. Maybe it could be... Williams! Mmmh, I think I´ve heard it somewhere... I should try again.... Lotus? Good! No one is using it now, sounds quite good and has nothing to do with my team. Great!!!

The next thing I´m going to do is a film. I was thinking about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre :D

BDunnell

7th June 2009, 23:35

Side note. If Lotus or Brabham etc are reborn would any wins, points, poles etc be added to their forebearers records or would they be starting anew? Just a thought.

And not a nice one! Technically, in this Lotus case, it would seem perfectly legitimate for the stats to continue where those of the original Team Lotus left off.

V12

8th June 2009, 08:10

Side note. If Lotus or Brabham etc are reborn would any wins, points, poles etc be added to their forebearers records or would they be starting anew? Just a thought.

I'm pretty sure they would - just as Renault and Honda's are/were even though they aren't/weren't technically a continuation of the 1977-85 and 1964-68 outfits respectively.

Tazio

8th June 2009, 10:39

Sadly :( IMO
very sadly :mad:

V12

8th June 2009, 14:05

There is actually a (sort of) precedent of this NOT happening - ATS. However I guess it was acknowledged that "ATS Wheels" and "Automobili Turismo e Sport" (or something like that!) could be classed as separate entities that just happened to have the same name/abbreviation, and the German ATS never pretended to have any sort of link to the Italian one.

Kind of like if "Bob's Reliable Machines" decided to build an F1 car they'd probably be classed as a separate entity from the old BRM team, but if the custodians of the "British Racing Motors" name decided to do the same, they'd inherit the old team's record.

But at the end of the day stats are just subjective and it will probably be de facto decided as much by the webmaster of Forix, the editor of Autosport etc. as it will by any sort of "official" decision on the matter.

CNR

11th June 2009, 00:21

Lotus company not behind 'Team Lotus'
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75997

Group Lotus plc and its subsidiary Lotus Cars Limited have moved to distance themselves from the recently-announced "Team Lotus" that has submitted an entry for the 2010 Formula 1 world championship, and signaled that they are prepared to take action to protect the Lotus brand name.
British Formula 3 squad Litespeed, which was founded by former Lotus employees Nino Judge and Steve Kenchington, announced last week that it wished to enter F1 next year under the Lotus banner.
Permission to use the Lotus name had apparently been granted by rights-holder David Hunt, however the Lotus company challenged that in a statement released today.

V12

11th June 2009, 00:25

Aren't "Team Lotus" (Hunt's brother) and "Lotus Cars" effectively two separate entities now? And haven't they been since 1995? Although I haven't looked into this really since....well, 1995, so I may be wrong!

VkmSpouge

11th June 2009, 01:19

I think the car company and racing team have long been separate entities, probably well before the team disappeared from F1.

CNR

11th June 2009, 03:56

gloomyDAY

11th June 2009, 06:12

Can someone please change the title of this thread? It is very ambiguous and I think people are creating threads without the knowledge of this thread.

Anyway, I'm sick of these 2nd tier teams illegally using an old teams' name.
I hope they sue the pants off of Bernie and his rag tag boyfriends.

wmcot

11th June 2009, 07:04

Next we'll have somebody entered as Vanwall!

ArrowsFA1

11th June 2009, 08:07

If the Lotus name were to return to F1 then IMHO the only people who have the right to bring it back are Classic Team Lotus (http://www.classicteamlotus.co.uk/).

gloomyDAY

11th June 2009, 23:30

Just when you thought there wasn't enough clout in F1........

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76030

Good on Brabham.

Jag_Warrior

12th June 2009, 19:16

I think the car company and racing team have long been separate entities, probably well before the team disappeared from F1.

I believe you're correct. I'm sure that I read Chapman did that for legal/financial reasons many, many years ago (1960's, I want to say).

BDunnell

12th June 2009, 19:34

I believe you're correct. I'm sure that I read Chapman did that for legal/financial reasons many, many years ago (1960's, I want to say).

Well, there were certainly multiple corporate entities, as they would be described now — Team Lotus, Lotus Components (who built customer racing cars) and Lotus Cars (the road car manufacturer). I don't know the details of the ownership of these companies, but this is surely rather different to the situation that has pertained for several years now, with the Team Lotus name having been sold off to somebody not involved with the road car business.