That's what I'm talkin' bout'!!

[jimispeed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKkLAWADrZo

Let's get back to that!!

Is there a 2010 version??

[FIAT1]

Amen!!!!

[The instant classic]

why go back to the past? its dead and gone,

[jimispeed]

why go back to the past? its dead and gone,

Because in the past, cars were built for excitement in all elements of racing!!

Not only did that car perform amazingly, it also sounded amazing!!!

If they don't deliver on what open wheel racing was founded on,

then the future of open wheel will be "dead and gone"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKkLAWADrZo

Just imagine that formula being the evolution of the pc17B.........an updated version of the classic pc17.

How amazing it would be to see and hear an updated mean turbo driven machine like that one again. Can you believe it?? An Ilmor Chevrolet? What a sound!!

Do it now Penske!!!

[speeddurango]

Apart from safety perspective, that "dead and gone" is so much better than today's.

[Mark in Oshawa]

why go back to the past? its dead and gone,


Yes...why would we want to talk about racing and era where there was variety in cars, variety of ideas and back when teams were looking for new ideas that mattered.

This was a nice walk in time, and I will point out that I do believe it was Derrick Walker who Jackie was conversing with when he was being fitted. A Nice piece of history and it was too bad Jackie wasn't able to run on slicks in this piece. I would be curious to know how fast he would have been vs the regular CART regulars there at that time.

[jimispeed]

The PC17 was the complete package........speeds where more than sufficient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHzmjxnC8J8&feature=related

That's what is needed in open wheel again!!

[Jag_Warrior]

Jimi, thanks so much for that. Watching that video really brought a smile to my face.

Another test that I really wish there was video of is Ayrton Senna's test of the Penske-Chevrolet at Firebird. I've seen many pictures, but I've never seen any video. :(

[Jag_Warrior]

why go back to the past? its dead and gone,

Do you never look at old photo albums of friends and family from years gone by? From a fan perspective, it might be pure nostalgia. For the business people who are tasked with making the IRL a success, it might help if they actually knew what success looked like, since many don't seem to have a clue these days. How can one succeed if he can't define or describe success???

The founding fathers read the Latin and Greek classics... from 2000 years prior. Great men, with great minds can learn from the past, without becoming overly caught up in nostalgia. As a fan, I just enjoy the nostalgia.

[NickFalzone]

I tend to agree with Frank Zappa on this:

"It is not necessary to imagine the world ending in either fire or ice. There are two other possibilities. One is paperwork, the other is nostalgia."

[jimispeed]

Do you never look at old photo albums of friends and family from years gone by? From a fan perspective, it might be pure nostalgia. For the business people who are tasked with making the IRL a success, it might help if they actually knew what success looked like, since many don't seem to have a clue these days. How can one succeed if he can't define or describe success???

The founding fathers read the Latin and Greek classics... from 2000 years prior. Great men, with great minds can learn from the past, without becoming overly caught up in nostalgia. As a fan, I just enjoy the nostalgia.



Like I said before...

If they don't deliver on what open wheel racing was founded on,

then the future of open wheel will be "dead and gone"


The PC17 is an outstanding platform for a open wheel car, and the diversity that it demands.

Get the right people involved, that know where the technology needs to go in order to maintain the standard that was in the past. What we have now doesn't compare in the least.

This is why my hope was for TG to embrace CART/Champcar for all that it had to offer! Don't turn your back on it, embrace it!!! Even KK turned his back on it, by doing away with ovals! None of that matters anymore.

What does matter is the will to achieve the extreme level of competition and challenge that once existed not so long ago.

I believe the PC17 should be studied and improved upon. An added bonus would be the visual reminder of graceful engineering!

Still can't get over how great the Ilmor Chevy sounded. Bring an American (sort of) engine back!

[nigelred5]

Great car, great video. I actually remember that video from his show travelling around driving significant cars.

I'd prefer to step forward about 5 years to the 93 Lola- Cosworth/Ilmor package. IIRC, it was a full carbon fiber chassis by then and probably significantly safer.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3343144986_6996bec096.jpg

dang, it wonlt link the picture

[ykiki]

Great car, great video. I actually remember that video from his show travelling around driving significant cars.

I'd prefer to step forward about 5 years to the 93 Lola- Cosworth/Ilmor package. IIRC, it was a full carbon fiber chassis by then and probably significantly safer.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3343144986_6996bec096.jpg

dang, it wonlt link the picture

That Lola looked great in both oval and road packages.

[bblocker68]

Go a couple of videos down and you'll see Sir Jackie testing the Tyrell P34!!

Woot!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wprbq1Z_Vts&feature=related

[jimispeed]

Jimi, thanks so much for that. Watching that video really brought a smile to my face.

Another test that I really wish there was video of is Ayrton Senna's test of the Penske-Chevrolet at Firebird. I've seen many pictures, but I've never seen any video. :(


Here's Nigels test......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsankAPmIaY

[Jag_Warrior]

Here's Nigels test......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsankAPmIaY

Bravo, my man! And thanks!

Can you imagine Jensen Button testing an IRL car these days... and Tiger Woods showing up for the test (like Greg Norman did)? And I'm sorry, but that Lola was one byootiful frickin' car!!!!!!! The March 85C is still one of my favorites, but seeing that Lola at speed again also got the blood pumping!

Say Jimi, I'm not a YouTube member. Do you know kers80bhp? Any chance you could ask him if he has any video of Senna's Firebird test... if any exists? Gracias!

[DBell]

Here's Nigels test......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsankAPmIaY

Another great one Jimi. I lived in Phoenix back then and I remember Nigel's spin test was shown on the local news with a bit of a story with it. Man, was I excited about the coming of that season. Thanks for this thread Jimi. It's been a nice trip down memory lane. :)


Just saw Jag's post. If any video exist of Senna's test, I would love to see it too.

[V12]

I was only just getting into motorsport in the early 90s as I was hitting 10 years old. I was a HUGE mansell fan in 91-92 and I was gutted when I found out Mansell wasn't going to be in F1 in '93 (thinking as I did at that age that there was no other form of top line motorsport). Then when I found out he would be racing in '93 I was like "Indy-What?!?!" That was the start of me getting into this form of racing and I loved it, even after Nigel departed at the end of 1994. I enjoyed the fact that while the cars were more evenly matched than in F1, there was still a great variety of machinery and of course an even greater variety of circuits. If we can get out of the current Formula Dallara Honda era and back to something like that I might find my interest rising again.

[nigelred5]

This is what I'm talking about!!
Onboard with Nige in the T93/00 at Road America!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7PCLSUKou8&NR=1


I don't ever want to have to suffer seeing those Dallara pigs on my favorite track.

[The instant classic]

Do you never look at old photo albums of friends and family from years gone by? From a fan perspective, it might be pure nostalgia. For the business people who are tasked with making the IRL a success, it might help if they actually knew what success looked like, since many don't seem to have a clue these days. How can one succeed if he can't define or describe success???

The founding fathers read the Latin and Greek classics... from 2000 years prior. Great men, with great minds can learn from the past, without becoming overly caught up in nostalgia. As a fan, I just enjoy the nostalgia.
im just saying eventime i trun around its CART this CART that, and i have been watching racing since 1988 and never really go on about the old days of racing im to busy with today racing

[The instant classic]

Yes...why would we want to talk about racing and era where there was variety in cars, variety of ideas and back when teams were looking for new ideas that mattered.

This was a nice walk in time, and I will point out that I do believe it was Derrick Walker who Jackie was conversing with when he was being fitted. A Nice piece of history and it was too bad Jackie wasn't able to run on slicks in this piece. I would be curious to know how fast he would have been vs the regular CART regulars there at that time.
i feel what worked in the CART days wolud never work today,yes its great history but why not go out and re-make our own history with the indycar of now?

[garyshell]

i feel what worked in the CART days would never work today,yes its great history but why not go out and re-make our own history with the indycar of now?

I think you are right that a lot of it would not work today however, those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. Or put another way:

http://www.just-quotes.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?q=learn+from+history&stpos=0&stype=AND&db=*

Gary

[jimispeed]

All I know is what I feel.

The cars were quicker. More manhandling. Sexier. Much better looking than what Indycar is using now. IMO of course....

It was just by far, much better racing back then!! Let's get back to that!!


These were pretty good all around cars as well.....that was the s***!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQZ6MjtGPQ

[Jag_Warrior]

im just saying eventime i trun around its CART this CART that, and i have been watching racing since 1988 and never really go on about the old days of racing im to busy with today racing

Years ago, I was sharing a condo with a buddy while I was working out of town. A CART race was on. I don't remember which one. It doesn't really matter. A friend of his came over and wanted to watch a football game. He reached for the remote... while I was watching the race. :confused: Said he just wanted to check the score. I said, "If you change that channel, I'll break both your hands." He thought I was kidding so he picked up the remote. My friend screamed at him, "Dude, he's f'ing serious!" I wouldn't have broken his hands... that would have taken too long. But I was very type A then... so he would have gotten b!tch slapped and thrown out the door. But he put the remote down and left on his own. I wasn't a bad or violent person (depending on who you asked). But what would make me act this way over a sporting event? I was CART racing crazy!!! You didn't change the channel or talk loud while I watched my CART races!

These days people Tivo everything, so there likely wouldn't be a need for threats of violence. But what you want is a series that is so followed that it could cost a man the use of his hands! You want a series (like NASCAR) that makes people do strange things, because they're soooo crazy about it. People can make fun of NASCAR all they want. But those are the kinds of fans that MAKE a racing series successful! Their ratings are down, like AAPL computer stock is down a bit too. But it's still a sight better than Citibank. And right now, the IRL looks a lot more like C than it does AAPL. So what do the "powers that be" need to do to change that???

Look at the F1 board. We talk about Senna, Schumacher and even Jimmy Clark. But we also talk about Hamilton, Massa and Alonso - really even more. If people aren't talking about the IRL in positive terms as much as you'd like... well, maybe there's a reason for that. I'm not suggesting anything, or maybe I am. But as I said in another thread, the current ratings are where they are for a reason - it's not a coincidence. And likewise, CART pulled near 3.0's for Long Beach for a reason.

The IRL needs to figure out what it will take to flip that switch on again. All Jimi is doing is showing what it used to look like when the switch was turned on. Tecate girls! Penskes, Lolas and Reynards! Current and former F1 World Driving Champions in the field! Long Beach getting ratings that came close to most NASCAR races!!!

Hells yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about! :bounce:

[wedge]

At least Milwaukee is now no longer a snoozefest. The CART short track races in the late 90s were boring. They could not work on flat short tracks.

IRL @ Milwaukee has been a ton of fun over the years.


i feel what worked in the CART days wolud never work today,yes its great history but why not go out and re-make our own history with the indycar of now?

:up:

But you have to agree that you need some variety and variables like new engine manufacturers and carve its identity with turbos.

[nigelred5]

At least Milwaukee is now no longer a snoozefest. The CART short track races in the late 90s were boring. They could not work on flat short tracks.

IRL @ Milwaukee has been a ton of fun over the years.



:up:

But you have to agree that you need some variety and variables like new engine manufacturers and carve its identity with turbos.

That's precisely why the 93 Lola is my choice. They had an awesome aero package on ALL tracks. They ran full roadcourse wings on the short ovals. New Hampshire 93 was one of the best 1 mile oval races EVER (IMHO). IIRC,they were also down in the Low 20's lap times at Nazareth. It was an awesome package, cosworth powered, lightning fast, and damn sexy even just standing still!

[DBell]

That's precisely why the 93 Lola is my choice. They had an awesome aero package on ALL tracks. They ran full roadcourse wings on the short ovals. New Hampshire 93 was one of the best 1 mile oval races EVER (IMHO). IIRC,they were also down in the Low 20's lap times at Nazareth. It was an awesome package, cosworth powered, lightning fast, and damn sexy even just standing still!


Did you say New Hampshire '93? :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm4Z-PuhPuk

[The instant classic]

At least Milwaukee is now no longer a snoozefest. The CART short track races in the late 90s were boring. They could not work on flat short tracks.

IRL @ Milwaukee has been a ton of fun over the years.



:up:

But you have to agree that you need some variety and variables like new engine manufacturers and carve its identity with turbos.
for sure more manufactrers cuz they will put more money into the sport and have a manufactrer war :ninja:

[Wilf]

for sure more manufactrers cuz they will put more money into the sport and have a manufactrer war :ninja:
Unfortunately, all more manufacturers means is that the rich will get richer and the rest will be left behind.

The manufacturer will pick their team and the rest will have to buy one to at least try it out. So they have to have at least one car from each manufacturer and might end up with four chassis; entry and spare for oval as well as entry and spare for road/street courses if the cars outperform each other on the various tracks.

That does not reduce costs.

Remember that both Penske and Ganassi had and ran both Dallara and Panoz
chassis. At $350M that's some expensive experimentation.

Yes, they might be more attractive, but how many teams can afford to be pretty?

[nigelred5]

Open racing is what I want to see. prove it passes the crash and safety regs, limit the number of engine cylinders and Limit manufacturer involvement to supplying the engines. Other than that- let em run what they brung. i'm sick of spec type racing.

[Andrewmcm]

I was only just getting into motorsport in the early 90s as I was hitting 10 years old. I was a HUGE mansell fan in 91-92 and I was gutted when I found out Mansell wasn't going to be in F1 in '93 (thinking as I did at that age that there was no other form of top line motorsport). Then when I found out he would be racing in '93 I was like "Indy-What?!?!" That was the start of me getting into this form of racing and I loved it, even after Nigel departed at the end of 1994. I enjoyed the fact that while the cars were more evenly matched than in F1, there was still a great variety of machinery and of course an even greater variety of circuits. If we can get out of the current Formula Dallara Honda era and back to something like that I might find my interest rising again.

That's more-or-less a mirror of my awakening to Indycar racing!

[jimispeed]

All it took for me was.....Watching Indy as a kid and seeing my old heroes!

Then it was Vancouver, CA to see Alex Zanardi. That was all it took!!

When the split happened, Indy ***** because.......who were the drivers,......what the ***** where those cars?

The CART era was amazing IMO in the nineties. Cars where great, and clearly challenged the drivers.

We gotta get back to what was/is still true in racing........here's another!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQZ6MjtGPQ

[Bob Riebe]

why go back to the past? its dead and gone,

There is nothing new under the sun, what some rather ignorant people want to call "modern" is just redo and reruns of the past conceptions and creations. Always has been and always will be.

[The instant classic]

There is nothing new under the sun, what some rather ignorant people want to call "modern" is just redo and reruns of the past conceptions and creations. Always has been and always will be.
what can i say i never watch the CART days i never heard of CART till 94
but today "modern" indycar is the open wheel racing i know, good or bad

[jimispeed]

All it took for me was.....Watching Indy as a kid and seeing my old heroes!

Then it was Vancouver, CA to see Alex Zanardi. That was all it took!!

When the split happened, Indy ***** because.......who were the drivers,......what the ***** where those cars?

The CART era was amazing IMO in the nineties. Cars where great, and clearly challenged the drivers.

We gotta get back to what was/is still true in racing........here's another!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQZ6MjtGPQ

I didn't use any bad words....... Now that they are just asterisks, I can't remember what they were. I should have stated it was IMO of course. Great video though!!
:)