Barnhart, your days as dictator are numbered.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I have lost all respect for Brian Barnhart. I used to have some disagreements with what he did but in general I THOUGHT he was doing a good job. In retrospect and after reading Robin Miller's piece on Speedtv.com, I can only conclude that it is time for the IRL to find someone else to be chief steward.

The micromanagement of races has got to stop. Barnhart is taking all the excitement of racing out of racing. Who would have thought that this could be possible ? The biggest farce he perpetrates is the start of the 500 every year. It's absolutely ridiculous what he has turned that breathtaking spectacle into; nothing but a scripted mess.

And then the last straw was attempting to kill Helio's celebration. I was screaming at the video boards and so was everyone else when I saw that guy put his hands on Helio and push him back down. That was a WTF moment if ever there was one. That move verged on criminal assault.

Robin Miller is right, the guy (Barnhart) tries to SCRIPT the race instead of policing it. And this needs to stop. Race control needs a policeman not a director. Tony Cotman please take the reigns !

I once gave advice on this very forum that if you want something badly enough you have to work at it. After this weekend's stupidity by Barnhart and his past body of work, I want him out. It's up to us fans who collectively pay these guys' salaries to collectively fire this guy. I'm on a mission to get this guy out. Wish me luck or join me . :)

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-indy-obstacles-observations/ <<--- THANK YOU ROBIN MILLER FOR OPENING MY EYES

[SarahFan]

I have lost all respect for Brian Barnhart. I used to have some disagreements with what he did but in general I THOUGHT he was doing a good job. In retrospect and after reading Robin Miller's piece on Speedtv.com, I can only conclude that it is time for the IRL to find someone else to be chief steward.

The micromanagement of races has got to stop. Barnhart is taking all the excitement of racing out of racing. Who would have thought that this could be possible ? The biggest farce he perpetrates is the start of the 500 every year. It's absolutely ridiculous what he has turned that breathtaking spectacle into; nothing but a scripted mess.

And then the last straw was attempting to kill Helio's celebration. I was screaming at the video boards and so was everyone else when I saw that guy put his hands on Helio and push him back down. That was a WTF moment if ever there was one. That move verged on criminal assault.

Robin Miller is right, the guy (Barnhart) tries to SCRIPT the race instead of policing it. And this needs to stop. Race control needs a policeman not a director. Tony Cotman please take the reigns !

I once gave advice on this very forum that if you want something badly enough you have to work at it. After this weekend's stupidity by Barnhart and his past body of work, I want him out. It's up to us fans who collectively pay these guys' salaries to collectively fire this guy. I'm on a mission to get this guy out. Wish me luck or join me . :)

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-indy-obstacles-observations/ <<--- THANK YOU ROBIN MILLER FOR OPENING MY EYES

I suspect when Tony relinquishes control back to the owners the newly apointed commissioner will nix Brian fairly quickly...

[SarahFan]

'How did it come to this? A guy who never turned a lap of competition in anything trying to tell drivers in a marquee series how to react at 200 mph? Or suggesting they "spread out" when they're trying to beat each other in the biggest race of the year? Or asking them not to run side-by-side on the first lap?'-RM

[chuck34]

The actual start of the race has been horrible for years, long before Barnhart. But if he did tell them not to run side by side then that is stupid too.

But what takes the cake for me is not letting Helio climb the fence. How stupid is that? I'm with you Chicago, I used to think Barnhart had the best interests of the sport at heart, now I'm not so sure.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

In my opinion, the Helio debacle the end of the race will be one of the most ridiculous moments in the history of motor sport. Thank you Brian Barnhart

[Chamoo]

Tony Cotman proved during his time in CCWS that he is the better man for the job.

[DBell]

I have lost all respect for Brian Barnhart. I used to have some disagreements with what he did but in general I THOUGHT he was doing a good job. In retrospect and after reading Robin Miller's piece on Speedtv.com, I can only conclude that it is time for the IRL to find someone else to be chief steward.

The micromanagement of races has got to stop. Barnhart is taking all the excitement of racing out of racing. Who would have thought that this could be possible ? The biggest farce he perpetrates is the start of the 500 every year. It's absolutely ridiculous what he has turned that breathtaking spectacle into; nothing but a scripted mess.

And then the last straw was attempting to kill Helio's celebration. I was screaming at the video boards and so was everyone else when I saw that guy put his hands on Helio and push him back down. That was a WTF moment if ever there was one. That move verged on criminal assault.

Robin Miller is right, the guy (Barnhart) tries to SCRIPT the race instead of policing it. And this needs to stop. Race control needs a policeman not a director. Tony Cotman please take the reigns !

I once gave advice on this very forum that if you want something badly enough you have to work at it. After this weekend's stupidity by Barnhart and his past body of work, I want him out. It's up to us fans who collectively pay these guys' salaries to collectively fire this guy. I'm on a mission to get this guy out. Wish me luck or join me . :)

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-indy-obstacles-observations/ <<--- THANK YOU ROBIN MILLER FOR OPENING MY EYES

Good post. I agree, BB needs to be shown the door.

[Wilf]

Good post. I agree, BB needs to be shown the door.

Why, oh why, do so many, place so much trust in a person who has been proven wrong time and time again????

Remember - he was the one who told CART, oh so many years ago, they needed to spend some of their money supporting the teams who didn't have a sponsor.

He's outdone himself this time. I like Robin, but ...

[dataman1]

It's not just Barnhart IMO. I talk with mechanics and they feel the head of Tech Inspection (forgot name, but he used to be chief at Panther) is another that needs to go. Just passing on information.

[Chamoo]

Well, I'd rather have a ***** doing tech inspection then a ***** in a drivers ear during the race. Tech inspection does nothing to the show, and I think having a strict tech inspection is important to keep people adhered to the rules.

Race control has to be lenient and understanding, Barnhart is neither.

[dataman1]

Well, I'd rather have a ***** doing tech inspection then a ***** in a drivers ear during the race. Tech inspection does nothing to the show, and I think having a strict tech inspection is important to keep people adhered to the rules.

Race control has to be lenient and understanding, Barnhart is neither.

No argument from me for either point.

I listen to the guys that put the cars together so there is a show. Keeping people adherant to the rules is okay but selective enforcement and/or leniency towards favorites is not acceptable. From what I have heard the name you use above fits well.

[methanolHuffer]

I think the drivers of any given race know where and when they can run side by side.
The reasons Race Control should get on the radio would be for valid safety updates unforeseen at the time of the driver's meeting. Or to admonish a driver personally on his lone frequency (maybe even that should be left to the teams to relay from the pits).
Asking the drivers to NOT race is simply absurd.

And as far as fence climbing is concerned, there's nothing really wrong with that. If someone gets injured, It's on their dime. If burnouts become the standard celebration and the fans go wild, let them. If backflips off the side pod become popular, let them.

If a driver celebrates recklessly and injures a spectator, track marshal, or pit crew - fine them accordingly.

[The instant classic]

I have lost all respect for Brian Barnhart. I used to have some disagreements with what he did but in general I THOUGHT he was doing a good job. In retrospect and after reading Robin Miller's piece on Speedtv.com, I can only conclude that it is time for the IRL to find someone else to be chief steward.

The micromanagement of races has got to stop. Barnhart is taking all the excitement of racing out of racing. Who would have thought that this could be possible ? The biggest farce he perpetrates is the start of the 500 every year. It's absolutely ridiculous what he has turned that breathtaking spectacle into; nothing but a scripted mess.

And then the last straw was attempting to kill Helio's celebration. I was screaming at the video boards and so was everyone else when I saw that guy put his hands on Helio and push him back down. That was a WTF moment if ever there was one. That move verged on criminal assault.

Robin Miller is right, the guy (Barnhart) tries to SCRIPT the race instead of policing it. And this needs to stop. Race control needs a policeman not a director. Tony Cotman please take the reigns !

I once gave advice on this very forum that if you want something badly enough you have to work at it. After this weekend's stupidity by Barnhart and his past body of work, I want him out. It's up to us fans who collectively pay these guys' salaries to collectively fire this guy. I'm on a mission to get this guy out. Wish me luck or join me . :)

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-indy-obstacles-observations/ <<--- THANK YOU ROBIN MILLER FOR OPENING MY EYES
i 100% agree with that post
make Barnhart leave and take Tony with him :)

[Easy Drifter]

I have said it before on this forum and others. Unless you have actually raced (and I do not mean a celebrity race or two) you really do not know what it is like out there. You really do not understand the split second, often by intuition, things drivers do and why. You do not have to have driven at top levels to understand this. Anyone who has really raced comprehends. Cars, bikes, snowmobiles, power boats it doesn't matter.
I raced for many years, but never at a really top level, although I ran in races where there were drivers with F1 experience (at least 7). I did run as a pro.
Those who have never raced, despite many years around racing, cannot quite grasp what it is like.
I know there are people on this forum who will disagree with me about the need to have raced to really understand what happens in a race. There always are.
So far, however, I have never had an actual race driver disagree with me.
In the area where I did most of my racing they did not want ex drivers as 'stewards' as they might favour the drivers in decisions!!! IE. Non racers know better.

[The instant classic]

I have said it before on this forum and others. Unless you have actually raced (and I do not mean a celebrity race or two) you really do not know what it is like out there. You really do not understand the split second, often by intuition, things drivers do and why. You do not have to have driven at top levels to understand this. Anyone who has really raced comprehends. Cars, bikes, snowmobiles, power boats it doesn't matter.
I raced for many years, but never at a really top level, although I ran in races where there were drivers with F1 experience (at least 7). I did run as a pro.
Those who have never raced, despite many years around racing, cannot quite grasp what it is like.
I know there are people on this forum who will disagree with me about the need to have raced to really understand what happens in a race. There always are.
So far, however, I have never had an actual race driver disagree with me.
In the area where I did most of my racing they did not want ex drivers as 'stewards' as they might favour the drivers in decisions!!! IE. Non racers know better.i 100% agree with you, and understand that
for myself im not ashamed to say im a die-hard wrestling fan, and i hear the same thing "wrestling is fake" and like you said, unless you have been on track (or in the ring) you dont know what its really like, they put there lifes on the line every weekend for our entertainment, but look out when a driver gets hurt or dies, all the non-racers will come out and tell us they know more then anyone, even if they cant get the drivers names right half the time sports channel make me laugh sometimes "driver dale airenhart" and "driver paul dina" and "driver tony rope"

[speeddurango]

I didn't particularly understand why BB put one of his feet on the nose of the car every time before that car went out in the Indy qualifying, I think now it's much more clear to me.

[MDS]

Yes, Tony Cotman would be a much better choice to run the series on every level, but it's not like what Barnhart tried to do was unprecedented. NASCAR had a long fight with its drivers about "appropriate victory celebrations." They tried to crack down on burnouts and donuts. Any one remember that PVC cage they used to roll on top of cars to keep drivers from standing on them in victory lane? How about the time they stoped the Labonte brothers from doing the joint victory lap at Atlanta when Bobby won the race and Terry won the championship? Or when the NASCAR officials were pointing Earnhardt to victory lane after he finally one the 500.

Yes, Barnhart needs to go for multiple reasons, but I don't think this is one of them.

[beachbum]

It's not just Barnhart IMO. I talk with mechanics and they feel the head of Tech Inspection (forgot name, but he used to be chief at Panther) is another that needs to go. Just passing on information.
Of course the teams would want a tough tech person like Kevin Blanch to go. He was one of the most "creative" crew chiefs out there and knows all of the tricks. It is hard to cheat or get an "unfair advantage" with him around. But that is how it should be.

There are many examples of failed series where the the teams and drivers were running the asylum. If an official is disliked because they are strict, then they are doing their job.

[SarahFan]

I have said it before on this forum and others. Unless you have actually raced (and I do not mean a celebrity race or two) you really do not know what it is like out there. You really do not understand the split second, often by intuition, things drivers do and why. You do not have to have driven at top levels to understand this. Anyone who has really raced comprehends. Cars, bikes, snowmobiles, power boats it doesn't matter.
I raced for many years, but never at a really top level, although I ran in races where there were drivers with F1 experience (at least 7). I did run as a pro.
Those who have never raced, despite many years around racing, cannot quite grasp what it is like.
I know there are people on this forum who will disagree with me about the need to have raced to really understand what happens in a race. There always are.
So far, however, I have never had an actual race driver disagree with me.
In the area where I did most of my racing they did not want ex drivers as 'stewards' as they might favour the drivers in decisions!!! IE. Non racers know better.


well thats an interesting post...

but where do you stand on BB?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ken, I think I can say in Drifter's defense, he too thinks BB should go. Non-Racer and all that.

Brian I was always told was a pretty good race control guy. Since I am not at the track the way I used to be every year when CART/CCWS was in Toronto, I wouldn't know. I know Tony Cotman's rep is top drawer, so I know if they put him in the job he can do it, but until I watched Indy this year, I never really had a thought on Brian Barnhart's reign.

That said, I thought the start was awful, both the aborted first and the even worse second where they gave them the green anyhow. Listen, the 11 rows of 3 is dangerous and maybe should have been outlawed years ago ( like 1947 or something) but it is part of Indy, and drivers have managed for the most part to make it look something like a proper start many years but this year was a JOKE. IF Brian was going to nix the first start, he should have nixed that second too. Otherwise, he just looks like a human weathervane bending to ABC's wishes ( they no doubt were on the horn telling him they didn't want to be there all day ). That was obvious.

The stopping of Helio climbing the fence or at least, TRYING to stop him was what really struck me. I didn't know that was Brian's idea, but if it was, he should never be allowed in race control again. This sport is a SHOW and it is to entertain people. ABC was practically choreographing Helio climbing that fence 5 laps from the end. They told all us fans he would likely be on that fence. We all KNEW he was going to climb that fence, and we all WANTED him to climb that fence. It was one of the more dramatic events in Indy history the first time he did it, and after the year Helio had, no bureaucrat named Brian Barnhart should be allowed to stop him.

BB in one race should be fired. I have no judgement on how has run other events, and since I am not there with a scanner, I wont even comment, but I know what I saw on my TV and any guy without the jam to figure out what a great story Helio climbing that fence with his team was going to be, is just clueless.

We don't need clueless running the sport, but it appears that is what we have....draw your own conclusions on how many beyond Barnhart fit that description.

[NickFalzone]

I think it was Curt Cavin on a chat last week that said canning the Helio fence climb was not from BB. He said that it was ABC that wanted to get to Victory Lane immediately and get to the end of the broadcast that in their opinion was running long. I somewhat know BB and have interviewed him before, he's certainly made his mistakes here and there, but he does generally do what is best for the entertainment value of the sport. I think blaming him for this without any evidence that he was involved is unfair.

[chuck34]

I think it was Curt Cavin on a chat last week that said canning the Helio fence climb was not from BB. He said that it was ABC that wanted to get to Victory Lane immediately and get to the end of the broadcast that in their opinion was running long. I somewhat know BB and have interviewed him before, he's certainly made his mistakes here and there, but he does generally do what is best for the entertainment value of the sport. I think blaming him for this without any evidence that he was involved is unfair.

That makes a lot more sence to me, and I have been wondering if something like that went down with this whole deal. To me anyway, it's much more believable that ABC wanted to end the broadcast than BB wanted to stifle any entertainment. And BB may have just been trying to do what ABC asked of him?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Ok so according to Davey Hamilton and Mike King I should be mad at Joie Chitwood for trying to keep Helio from climbing the fence. Apparently they wanted all the traditional celebrations done first then they could celebrate in whatever way they would want to. This was decreed at the driver's meeting apparently.

[keysersoze]

I am fundamentally opposed to firing ANYONE without proper discussion and a chance to emend any deficiencies unless, of course, the person is guilty of a violation involving moral turpitude.

This chat forum arrogance of "fire this person" or "replace this driver with that driver" is so very wrong. After all, these are people.

How would you like it if someone who didn't work in your company was calling the boss demanding him (or her) to give you the axe? :mad:

[garyshell]

I am fundamentally opposed to firing ANYONE without proper discussion and a chance to emend any deficiencies unless, of course, the person is guilty of a violation involving moral turpitude.

This chat forum arrogance of "fire this person" or "replace this driver with that driver" is so very wrong. After all, these are people.

How would you like it if someone who didn't work in your company was calling the boss demanding him (or her) to give you the axe? :mad:


It happens every day. It is called the real world. If the people you are serving in your job, i.e. your customers, are given shoddy service they have every right and even a responsibility to complain to your boss. Barnhardt is not above that.

Gary

[NickFalzone]

According to Curt Cavin's Q&A today, it actually was not ABC that made this decision. I still stand behind Barnhart not being the reason though, from what I have gathered from other sources, it was Hulman-George that has felt in recent years that their tradition of milk, etc in victory circle has not gone as soon or as smoothly as they'd like after the win. But to postpone Helio's fence climb until after victory lane, intv, etc. just takes all the fun out of it. If this is the kind of stuff Hulman-George folks want the future of Indy to be, I think we're going from bad to worse management-wise:

"ABC had nothing to do with it. The situation was caused by race officials (league and track) insisting the winner go to victory lane as quickly as possible as to not spoil the traditional celebration there. But make no mistake: No one wanted to spoil Helio's climb; they just wanted it to be after he went to victory lane."

[chuck34]

Who ever is at fault for this is just plain dumb. Wether it was BB or Chitwood, ABC, or TG himself. All of the greatest traditions in motorsport were started by someone just expressing himself. Let it happen and start a new great tradition.

[keysersoze]

It happens every day. It is called the real world. If the people you are serving in your job, i.e. your customers, are given shoddy service they have every right and even a responsibility to complain to your boss. Barnhardt is not above that.

Gary

Where in my post did I say Barnhardt was above being criticized? I have no problems with complaining or a critical assessment--it's one of the ways to get better at what one does.

However, if you had cared to read (a fundamental skill in this real world) my post you would have noticed that I clearly mentioned a "chance to emend deficiencies."

[garyshell]

How would you like it if someone who didn't work in your company was calling the boss demanding him (or her) to give you the axe? :mad:


It happens every day. It is called the real world. If the people you are serving in your job, i.e. your customers, are given shoddy service they have every right and even a responsibility to complain to your boss. Barnhardt is not above that.

Gary


Where in my post did I say Barnhardt was above being criticized? I have no problems with complaining or a critical assessment--it's one of the ways to get better at what one does.

However, if you had cared to read (a fundamental skill in this real world) my post you would have noticed that I clearly mentioned a "chance to emend deficiencies."


Maybe it is YOU who needs to go back and read what you wrote, to which I replied. TO save you the time of digging back through the thread the pertinent part is quoted above.

Gary

[keysersoze]

Nice job trying to take that particular comment out of the context of my entire post. I already explained it in quite plain language, and since you weren't able to refute what I said (but merely copied it back to me) I'll just have to assume don't have a cogent response.

But here's a restatement of the first part of my original post--the part you refused to address:

[No one deserves to be fired without proper, professional communication from their boss, and a subsequent chance to demonstrate competence. However, if a person is guilty of a moral offense, no such communication is required, and an immediate dismissal is warranted.]

Then, to provide a real world scenario, I put it back on the ones who are calling for Barnhardt's firing, by rhetorically asking (and I'm restating it)

How would YOU like it if someone went to your boss, complained about your performance, and demanded that you be fired (and here's the part I assumed: that the boss fired you without any opportunity on your part to make it right)?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Fine..so now it isn't BB's fault? Now it is Chitwood or some other idiot employed by the Speedway? Damn right it wasn't ABC's fault, as I said, I watched that broadcast, they all but said Helio was gonna be on that fence. It makes for great TV when you tell everyone all about it.

All I know is some security weenie was trying to tell him not to. AT some point, someone at the IMS should manup and tell the world he is the idiot who tried to choreograph that victory celebration and that it should start and end in victory lane. My god, it is the Indy 500 and some imbecile on the payroll at IMS cannot figure out that you cant take all the spontenatity out of this stuff? Idiots....

Humpy Wheeler...please offer up your expertese to these people...they are clueless.