View Full Version : Are Williams wasting their potential?
woody2goody
25th May 2009, 14:11
The question I put to everyone is this:
Are Williams squandering the best car they have had since 2005, or do you think there is more to it?
Personally, I think the car is very solid. And I don't think the drivers are to blame for their underperformance. Nakajima's qualifying hasn't been the best, but Rosberg has only had 7.5 points himself.
They have been extremely fast in practice, maybe flattering themselves a little bit. However could it just be the excellent Williams team adapting very quickly to every circuit, and getting the most out of their car almost immediately.
They have said that they have had trouble getting heat into the tyres in qualifying, but surely this car should have been regularly challenging for victories with both Rosberg and Nakajima.
Honestly I don't think their car has more potential than the BGP, Ferrari and RBR have.
woody2goody
25th May 2009, 14:29
Honestly I don't think their car has more potential than the BGP, Ferrari and RBR have.
Do you agree that they have underperformed the most though?
Ferrari usually make a fast car. When it goes wrong it's usually for some other reason. Example: 2005 it was to do with the changes to the tyre rules. And this year it's been a number of things such as KERS and bad strategy.
Williams have built a very good racing car which should at least have got a podium or two, based on it's apparent pace in practice.
Josti
25th May 2009, 14:43
If you ask me, Nakajima has been pretty solid in qualifying this year, but his race pace and results are dissapointing so far. Likewise for Rosberg actually, given his speed in the car, he should have get at least a top five - if not a podium - result by now.
But to be honest, I have to agree with ioan, I don't think they can top Brawn, RBR, Ferrari and Toyota this year and I guess a victory would mostly come by luck or good strategy. Hope to be proven wrong though, since I'm a fan of Rosberg.
Do you agree that they have underperformed the most though?
Ferrari usually make a fast car. When it goes wrong it's usually for some other reason. Example: 2005 it was to do with the changes to the tyre rules. And this year it's been a number of things such as KERS and bad strategy.
Williams have built a very good racing car which should at least have got a podium or two, based on it's apparent pace in practice.
BS, how the heck should they get a podium when the first 2 places were out of their reach and the 3th and 4th place were strongly fought for by cars like RBR, Ferrari and Toyota?!
Just because they do some showboating during FP it doesn't mean they are genuinely faster than the other cars.
wedge
25th May 2009, 16:30
The story of the past few years continues: clueless how to develop the car.
Jag_Warrior
25th May 2009, 16:56
Within these categories, I wonder how their lack of results would break down: car, drivers and race strategy?
But no, I don't see that they're getting the best from what they've got.
Garry Walker
25th May 2009, 18:13
The question I put to everyone is this:
Are Williams squandering the best car they have had since 2005, or do you think there is more to it?
Personally, I think the car is very solid. And I don't think the drivers are to blame for their underperformance. Nakajima's qualifying hasn't been the best, but Rosberg has only had 7.5 points himself.
They have been extremely fast in practice, maybe flattering themselves a little bit. However could it just be the excellent Williams team adapting very quickly to every circuit, and getting the most out of their car almost immediately.
They have said that they have had trouble getting heat into the tyres in qualifying, but surely this car should have been regularly challenging for victories with both Rosberg and Nakajima.
Challenging for victories? Please, they are not even close to winning. Just because they run on fumes in practise and get some top times, does not mean they are anywhere near winning.
People think that if you are quick in practise, it means you really have the pace, but obviously forget that top cars in practise often run with more fuel.
F1boat
25th May 2009, 18:17
IMO they should have got more points, but podium was in reach only in Malaysia.
Sleeper
25th May 2009, 19:09
In the first 4 races they failed to make the most of what was the 3rd/4th fastest car on the grid. Rosberg would have been 4th in Melbourne if the pit stops werent messed up, he was on course for 3rd, maybe 2nd, in Melaysia before the rain came then he slipt back. Poor decision to pit behind the safety car in China put him at the back and he got stuck behind traffic in Bahrain after a bad start. Now that Ferrari have passed them there getting representative results (6th/7th). Nakajima isnt impressing though and should be droped for next year.
Nakajima isnt impressing though and should be droped for next year.
They are running him on half arsed strategies (not a 1 stopper but not a 2 stopper either) with more fuel than needed during a season where there is a bit more than a second between 1st and last.
Honestly I pity all the drivers who has to put up with BS like Williams more often than not imposes on them.
Sonic
25th May 2009, 19:50
They seem to have lost the plot on strategy. They long fueled Nico in the mid stint to avoid the tyre problems suffered by Vettel only to see Ferrari et al manage 23 laps on the super soft at the end once the track had rubbered in. Too many times this season Nico has been slowly but surely shuffled down the order during pit stops.
Sleeper
25th May 2009, 21:37
They are running him on half arsed strategies (not a 1 stopper but not a 2 stopper either) with more fuel than needed during a season where there is a bit more than a second between 1st and last.
Honestly I pity all the drivers who has to put up with BS like Williams more often than not imposes on them.
Alonso and Rosberg were running similar strategies (one long stint, one medium, one short), Nakajima didnt make it work and lost out to one stoppers Bourdais and Fisichella.
Nikki Katz
25th May 2009, 21:38
Williams are fast this year, but it's a close field, and they're normally only back end of top ten. I think that their testing times are largely fuel related, otherwise they'd be a little more concerned about being fastest in free practice and midfield in qualifying and the race.
Nakajima isn't great either, but they need him for funding, and there've been much worse drivers.
christophulus
25th May 2009, 21:39
Wasted potential? Undoubtedly yes. It's sad to see the same thing every year, fast at the start and not taking their chances. I think an overhaul of their strategists is in order now. The car is solid (for now) but they need results!
F1boat
26th May 2009, 08:51
They are running him on half arsed strategies (not a 1 stopper but not a 2 stopper either) with more fuel than needed during a season where there is a bit more than a second between 1st and last.
Honestly I pity all the drivers who has to put up with BS like Williams more often than not imposes on them.
I agree. I remember that after Barcelona they were "investigating the reasons of Nico's slow laps". I watch F1 from many years and in this teams, always the drivers are to blame. I respect the team for the success in the past, but I don't like them, I think that they are as "nasty" as McLaren.
ShiftingGears
26th May 2009, 09:29
They're not the most tactful with their drivers either. Which would be to their detriment fairly often, I imagine.
555-04Q2
26th May 2009, 11:18
The Williams is fast with low fuel over one lap. FP times from Nico so far this season confirm this. But they are running very light during FP sessions. They are mid to front pack at the moment but wont get any further towards the front IMO.
Sleeper
26th May 2009, 13:29
The Williams is fast with low fuel over one lap. FP times from Nico so far this season confirm this. But they are running very light during FP sessions. They are mid to front pack at the moment but wont get any further towards the front IMO.
Agreed, at least they are consistent points challengers this year, something they havnt been since 05.
555-04Q2
26th May 2009, 15:10
Agreed, at least they are consistent points challengers this year, something they havnt been since 05.
Yeah I dont know what has happened to Williams F1. They were so strong for so long up until their last championship success in 1997, since then they just cant seem to adjust to the new regs the way other teams do. But when they do click, they are a great team to watch :up:
ShiftingGears
26th May 2009, 15:16
Yeah I dont know what has happened to Williams F1. They were so strong for so long up until their last championship success in 1997, since then they just cant seem to adjust to the new regs the way other teams do. But when they do click, they are a great team to watch :up:
Williams and Head don't bother being tactful, which can undercut some drivers confidence within the team. Obviously theres the token Williams drivers like Jones who didn't get affected by that, but I do think Williams are reaping what they sow by not actively trying to give their drivers an environment which allows them to fulfill their potential.
555-04Q2
26th May 2009, 15:19
Williams and Head don't bother being tactful, which can undercut some drivers confidence within the team. Obviously theres the token Williams drivers like Jones who didn't get affected by that, but I do think Williams are reaping what they sow by not actively trying to give their drivers an environment which allows them to fulfill their potential.
You're right. I know Frank says to his drivers if you aint happy there is the door. Most other teams try and accomodate their drivers slightly more. They also have a poor driver retention rate, which may also be a factor in their poor showing over the last 12 or so seasons.
ShiftingGears
26th May 2009, 15:22
You're right. I know Frank says to his drivers if you aint happy there is the door. Most other teams try and accomodate their drivers slightly more. They also have a poor driver retention rate, which may also be a factor in their poor showing over the last 12 or so seasons.
Agreed. Their style only really works when the car delivers. But still, I'd like to see them succeed again.
Yeah I dont know what has happened to Williams F1. They were so strong for so long up until their last championship success in 1997, since then they just cant seem to adjust to the new regs the way other teams do.
Their problem is that FW and PH can't get along with any human beings without rubbing them the wrong way, that's their problem. Every talented person (driver or engineer) will leave the team as soon as they get a proposal from someone else.
ShiftingGears
26th May 2009, 15:31
Their problem is that FW and PH can't get along with any human beings without rubbing them the wrong way, that's their problem.
Disagreed. Some people just gel with Frank and Patrick - like Alan Jones. The problem is in the likely scenario that they don't - in which case, PH and FW aren't going to make much of an effort to change that.
555-04Q2
26th May 2009, 15:32
I think their poor driver retention rate also has a lot to do with their salary packages, which are lower than most other teams if I remember correctly.
Disagreed. Some people just gel with Frank and Patrick - like Alan Jones. The problem is in the likely scenario that they don't - in which case, PH and FW aren't going to make much of an effort to change that.
Woa, you managed to find one person who was actually happy during 30 years?! Great achievement!
However, stop making that a rule.
ShiftingGears
26th May 2009, 15:35
Woa, you managed to find one person who was actually happy during 30 years?! Great achievement!
However, stop making that a rule.
You were the one who was grossly overgeneralising, not me.
You were the one who was grossly overgeneralising, not me.
Yeah, sure!
Garry Walker
27th May 2009, 14:43
Their problem is that FW and PH can't get along with any human beings without rubbing them the wrong way, that's their problem.
How do you know that?
Sure they are not the sorts of characters who breastfeed their drivers, unlike certain other teambosses, but I find nothing wrong with that.
555-04Q2
27th May 2009, 14:48
How do you know that?
Its a well known fact that FW and PH dont take any cr@p from their drivers, especially ones with ego's. Other teams are a little bit more tolerant with their drivers. They also dont pay their drivers very well either. FW's attitude is if you arent happy you can ^%$& off!
Garry Walker
27th May 2009, 14:58
Its a well known fact that FW and PH dont take any cr@p from their drivers, especially ones with ego's. Other teams are a little bit more tolerant with their drivers. They also dont pay their drivers very well either. FW's attitude is if you arent happy you can ^%$& off!
Exactly the right attitude to have, in my view.
555-04Q2
27th May 2009, 15:00
Exactly the right attitude to have, in my view.
I agree.
Exactly the right attitude to have, in my view.
That's why they are stuck with two sub-par drivers! Excellent attitude Williams, please never change it! :D
555-04Q2
27th May 2009, 15:19
I think their driver signings are more because of their salary packages and performance. Offer some of the "top" drivers a drive in a competitive Williams and a US$ 40 million salary package and I'm sure some would bite!
Agreed, at least they are consistent points challengers this year, something they havnt been since 05.
Williams was a consistent points challenger in 2007. I think they were even more competitive then than they are now. Rosberg was consistently fighting behind Ferraris, McLarens and BMW's for the next positions.
As for waisted potential - well, I don't think they are really as quick as some seem to think (fast enough for podiums). Only in Malaysia a podium was on the cards. But I have been surprised by Williams' poor strategies, which have occured quite often in the last couple of years. Surely more should be expected in that area from such an experienced team!
Sonic
29th May 2009, 22:53
Nah, their tactics have always sucked! God the number of times I could be found screaming (yes literally) at the tv with their bungled strategies in the 90's. France '95 I think it was when they were completely wrong footed by Brawn and Shumi as just one example.
Sonic
7th June 2009, 21:09
Thank GOD! A decent race at last. Good on Kazu for a strong showing, and a shame Nico couldn't hold onto P4. But being the equal 3rd best team of the weekend is a good step forward.
truefan72
7th June 2009, 22:18
Williams continues to suffer from abysmal race day strategy
the car seems fast enough, or is it really all a mirage, even if they are light in practice, etc. the car is still awfully quick and IMO they are absolutely wasting its potential, more so from the pits than the drivers
woody2goody
7th June 2009, 22:30
Thank GOD! A decent race at last. Good on Kazu for a strong showing, and a shame Nico couldn't hold onto P4. But being the equal 3rd best team of the weekend is a good step forward.
A huge shame for Nakajima, as that was his best race since early last year, possibly the best of his career. But again it was an accident and something that can happen to anyone down the pitlane.
A great showing really considering the pace of Brawn, Toyota and Red Bull.
DazzlaF1
7th June 2009, 22:35
To be honest, Nakajima's 2nd pitstop today summed up Williams's season so far, they've just been desperately unlucky.
Nakajima drove brilliantly today and if it was'nt for that problem with his front left at that pitstop, he could have had a top 5 or 6 finish., but like with the other races this season a combination of bad strategy calls and bad luck with the timing of safety cars and the weather has cost them about 10-12 points so far.
But the signs are good, Rosberg's reactions in his post race interviews suggest he's happy with what the team are givning him in terms of machinery, they must have a darn good car, they just need that little bit of extra good fortune to be up there challenging for top 5 finishes.
Rosberg has been criticized for underachieving this year, but his last two races have been pretty good IMO. A bit surprising to see Williams getting stronger during a season as they have usually dropped as the season progresses.
Quite funny to see former great teams McLaren (13pts), Williams (11,5), Renault (11) and BMW (8) having a close fight in WCC for... P5! :p :
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