Indy 500 Raceday thread

[FormerFF]

Well, that was quick. Moraes surely just showed his inexperience.

[Nem14]

Well, that was quick. Moraes surely just showed his inexperience.Say what?

Moraes didn't do anything wrong. Why was Marco there on the outside on the first lap of a 500 mile race.

[FormerFF]

Say what?

Moraes didn't do anything wrong. Why was Marco there on the outside on the first lap of a 500 mile race.

While Marco was certainly in a high-risk position, Mario failed to hold his line and let his car drift up into Marco.

[garyshell]

Did anyone catch Goodyear's comment about "the most dangerous start these guys will have in their career". This guy is an idiot. Did he EVER watch a road or street race? Like Cleveland maybe?

Gary

[garyshell]

Oh wait there is another IDIOT in the booth. Cheever talking about Graham's incident and saying it didn't have anything to do with the loss of air across Graham's nose. Eddie just make my blood boil.

Gary

[jarrambide]

Say what?

Moraes didn't do anything wrong. Why was Marco there on the outside on the first lap of a 500 mile race.

Why was I not informed of the change in the rules?, when was being on the outside in the first lap banned?, did they also banned passing in the first lap?

It doesn´t matter if it is the first or the last lap, you can be in the outside, you can pass, you can race, some will tell you that you shouldn´t try that on the first lap because you have 199 more, why bother to have 200 laps then?, lets race only 20, my point is that you don´t get out jail free card for being a bad driver on the first lap, if you can´t or don´t want to concentrate on every one of the laps. don´t run the race.

This was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less, but this was indded Moraes´ fault.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm the biggest Indy 500 cheerleader there is but I'm saddened to see so many empty seats when they go to the air shots, especially on the tower terrace bleachers. :(

blame it on the economy haha

[FormerFF]

Big hit there for TK. Gotta love that SAFER barrier, he's OK.

[methanolHuffer]

How many more pickem's will I lose? Halfway through the race and half of my picks are DNF's.

[Nem14]

Why was I not informed of the change in the rules?, when was being on the outside in the first lap banned?, did they also banned passing in the first lap?

It doesn´t matter if it is the first or the last lap, you can be in the outside, you can pass, you can race, some will tell you that you shouldn´t try that on the first lap because you have 199 more, why bother to have 200 laps then?, lets race only 20, my point is that you don´t get out jail free card for being a bad driver on the first lap, if you can´t or don´t want to concentrate on every one of the laps. don´t run the race.

This was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less, but this was indded Moraes´ fault.You can't live in your mirrors and it's always the overtaking drivers responsibility to avoid contact. Way to much risk for the first lap. Marco's error.

Did you notice no one in his pit was talking to him?

[garyshell]

Why are they pushing Servia behind the wall? Speaking of Orial, does anyone have photo of his helmet design. Dali is one of my favorite painters and I noticed his image on the helmet during the pre-race.

Gary

[garyshell]

You can't live in your mirrors and it's always the overtaking drivers responsibility to avoid contact. Way to much risk for the first lap. Marco's error.

Did you notice no one in his pit was talking to him?

Oh please, look at the tapes again Mario did NOT hold his line at all. Where the hell was his spotter? How can Marco "avoid contact" when he is squeezed into the wall? Sure it was a silly move on Marco's part to go high like that, but Mario's quote of "Marco hit me. I held my line" is ridiculous.

Gary

[Nem14]

Big hit there for TK. Gotta love that SAFER barrier, he's OK.

I would have really liked to see him win the race. Sure glad he's ok.

I participated on the forums a lot more in the past, when soft walls were still just an idea. It is wonderfull the SAFER barrier came to be. :)

[jarrambide]

You can't live in your mirrors and it's always the overtaking drivers responsibility to avoid contact. Way to much risk for the first lap. Marco's error.

Did you notice no one in his pit was talking to him?
Do you know the basics of racing?
Do you know what a line in racing is?
Do you have any idea of what a spotter has to do in an oval?
It is the same risk regardless of the lap, I would have not tried that in the first lap, but that is not an error, at least not a racing error, not the best decision, but the racing error was made by Mario, and his interview tells me he had no idea what he was doing and what was happening at the track.

[Nem14]

Oh please, look at the tapes again Mario did NOT hold his line at all. Where the hell was his spotter? How can Marco "avoid contact" when he is squeezed into the wall? Sure it was a silly move on Marco's part to go high like that, but Mario's quote of "Marco hit me. I held my line" is ridiculous.

GaryWho, besides Mario, said Mario held his line.

[jarrambide]

Who, besides Mario, said Mario held his line.

Explain then (feel free to elaborate) how it was Marco´s mistake, what did he do wrong?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Samantha Lloyd is about to pop out a kid in pit lane

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Goodyear is an idiot.. he just said Power is racing for Luczo Dragon. They should keep him out of the dayum booth

HOLY S*** Vitor on fire

[garyshell]

I noticed during a flyover on race control that there are no vendors on Georgetown Ave. I remember at the first F1 race the entire street was a vendor area. Did they not do that in the past for the 500?

Gary

[garyshell]

PT to FOURTH place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GO PAUL!!! :s mokin:

Gary

[methanolHuffer]

I'd rather have Bob Uecker in his place. Really I would.

[Andrewmcm]

PT up to 4th...

[Nem14]

Do you know the basics of racing?
Do you know what a line in racing is?
Do you have any idea of what a spotter has to do in an oval?
It is the same risk regardless of the lap, I would have not tried that in the first lap, but that is not an error, at least not a racing error, not the best decision, but the racing error was made by Mario, and his interview tells me he had no idea what he was doing and what was happening at the track.Lets see:

Basics......To finish first you must first finish?
Racing line........Quickest path through a corner?
Spotter......Tries to help keep a driver aware of whats going on around him?

How did I do? Do I pass?

[garyshell]

Lets see:

Basics......To finish first you must first finish?
Racing line........Quickest path through a corner?
Spotter......Tries to help keep a driver aware of whats going on around him?

How did I do? Do I pass?


Yes, too bad Mario didn't.

Gary

[jarrambide]

Lets see:

Basics......To finish first you must first finish?
Racing line........Quickest path through a corner?
Spotter......Tries to help keep a driver aware of whats going on around him?

How did I do? Do I pass?

I´m afraid not, apparently you have major problems understanding this crazy thing called racing.

To finish first you must first finish?, errr, should no one try passing then?, passing is risky, why would you pass if you must first finish?, it is all about finding a balance, you need to finish, but you need to stay at least close to the front to have a real chance at winning, so you take risks, sometimes you make a mistake, and you are out, sometimes someone else (in this case Mario) makes the mistake and takes you out.

But the real scary part is the one about the racing line being the quickest path through a corner.

My friend, are you trying to say that there is only one racing line?

You are talking about the ideal line, which depending on your definition of quick, may not be the quickest route, it is the one that will take the less time to complete the course.

The ideal line is not the only possible racing line, for example, you could have a late apex or early apex.

But please, elaborate on how it was Marco´s fault, I am intrigued about what he did wrong, you accepted that Mario didn´t hold his line, so please, explain to me Marco´s error.

[F1boat]

I want Dan to win! Go Dan!

[jarrambide]

What a big hit, please let Vitor get out of his car on his own.

[FormerFF]

That's gotta play into Penske's hands. Nobody will have a fuel problem, and it doesn't seem that anyone can pass other than on a restart.

[Nikki Katz]

That was horrible. I hope he's ok.

[garyshell]

Did I just see a piece of debris fly into the stands on that last replay of the Vitor wreck???

Gary

[FormerFF]

ABC is reporting that Vitor is awake and alert, but complaining of pain. They were not able to specify where. Rafa Matos was escorted to the ambulance under his own power.

[F1boat]

horrific...

[jarrambide]

What a big hit, please let Vitor get out of his car on his own.
It didn´t happen, he is on the stretcher, but I´ll take best next thing, doctors telling us nothind bad happened.

[NickFalzone]

This is my biggest problem with ABC's handling of IndyCar, Reid, etc. have no ability to fill air time so they just go to commercials endlessly. They are barely intelligent enough to talk while actual racing is going on. During a yellow, forget about it. The VS guys filled 13 hours a weekend, no problem. Glad ABC only has a small portion of this season.

[F1boat]

Good job, Spidey.

[spiritone]

Just watched the last 30 laps of indy ( had to see how my boy tracey was doing) Looks like F1 now. No passing, money wins.

Not about driver skill any more with all the cars being close to being even ( well except for the penske money boys). Best of all, Mr America wins again with a foreign driver.

Tell me american fans how does it feel to have the biggest american owners running the biggest american race with foreign drivers? You wonder why tv ratings are down.

[NickFalzone]

Just watched the last 30 laps of indy ( had to see how my boy tracey was doing) Looks like F1 now. No passing, money wins.

Not about driver skill any more with all the cars being close to being even ( well except for the penske money boys). Best of all, Mr America wins again with a foreign driver.

Tell me american fans how does it feel to have the biggest american owners running the biggest american race with foreign drivers? You wonder why tv ratings are down.

You know nothing about Indy.

[garyshell]

Just watched the last 30 laps of indy ( had to see how my boy tracey was doing) Looks like F1 now. No passing, money wins.

Not about driver skill any more with all the cars being close to being even ( well except for the penske money boys). Best of all, Mr America wins again with a foreign driver.

Tell me american fans how does it feel to have the biggest american owners running the biggest american race with foreign drivers? You wonder why tv ratings are down.


Go take a long walk off a short pier. I wanted nothing more than to see PT, but I am not about to ***** on Helio like you seem to want to do. I am glad that Helio is VERY popular in the US and most of us don't have the xenophobic attitude you are exhibiting.

Gary

[jarrambide]

We just had a race, to some the most important race of the year (not a big fan of ovals but I do get this is the jewel of the crown for most), real criticism is acceptable, but I will not tolerate members trying to pick up a fight or plain and simple bashing, I will close this thread and will take other measures if this happens, so please, do not feed trolls.

[ozrevhead]

hopefully he is OK...nasty shunt and it could of been worse if he had the top of the car sliding along the wall instead of the belly :eek: YIKES! :eek:

Onto the race iselft all I can say is Oh FFS!

why did they have to short fuel Ryan for - he was 2nd in the championship for crying out loud! And what the hell was Will's last pit stop??? Talk about amaturish! I dont think ive been this angry after the race in a long time!

I knew as soon as Helio was back Ryan would be relegated to second fiddle - well its started!

Gutted and Livid :( :mad:

EDIT - a poster on the speedtv forums said the commenators said Vitor has full movement of all extremities - Thats good news! :) Ok now I know hes OK I can go back to being pIssed

[Nem14]

I´m afraid not, apparently you have major problems understanding this crazy thing called racing.

To finish first you must first finish?, errr, should no one try passing then?, passing is risky, why would you pass if you must first finish?, it is all about finding a balance, you need to finish, but you need to stay at least close to the front to have a real chance at winning, so you take risks, sometimes you make a mistake, and you are out, sometimes someone else (in this case Mario) makes the mistake and takes you out.

But the real scary part is the one about the racing line being the quickest path through a corner.

My friend, are you trying to say that there is only one racing line?

You are talking about the ideal line, which depending on your definition of quick, may not be the quickest route, it is the one that will take the less time to complete the course.

The ideal line is not the only possible racing line, for example, you could have a late apex or early apex.

But please, elaborate on how it was Marco´s fault, I am intrigued about what he did wrong, you accepted that Mario didn´t hold his line, so please, explain to me Marco´s error.Wow.........
You obviously know way more about racing than I do.

I guess I've been getting it all wrong for the last 30 years. Thanks for the education.

[garyshell]

Wow.........
You obviously know way more about racing than I do.

I guess I've been getting it all wrong for the last 30 years. Thanks for the education.


We are still waiting to hear how this was Marco's fault.

Gary

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Just watched the last 30 laps of indy ( had to see how my boy tracey was doing) Looks like F1 now. No passing, money wins.

Not about driver skill any more with all the cars being close to being even ( well except for the penske money boys). Best of all, Mr America wins again with a foreign driver.

Tell me american fans how does it feel to have the biggest american owners running the biggest american race with foreign drivers? You wonder why tv ratings are down.

you should be posting on another forum ... something fanatics.com.... they would love you there. You have no idea what you are talikng about...

P2 Wheldon (Panther) P3 Patrick (AGR) P4 Bell (KVR) P5 Power (Penske)

yup Panther is a big money team and so is KVR

[jarrambide]

Wow.........
You obviously know way more about racing than I do.

I guess I've been getting it all wrong for the last 30 years. Thanks for the education.
So, no elaboration how it was Marco´s fault?, I have asked you 3 times to explain to me what was that he did wrong.

[DBell]

Just watched the last 30 laps of indy ( had to see how my boy tracey was doing) Looks like F1 now. No passing, money wins.

Not about driver skill any more with all the cars being close to being even ( well except for the penske money boys). Best of all, Mr America wins again with a foreign driver.

Tell me american fans how does it feel to have the biggest american owners running the biggest american race with foreign drivers? You wonder why tv ratings are down.

I didn't know Chris Paft was a member here. You do realize Paul Tracy is a Canadian, right?

[Nem14]

So, no elaboration how it was Mario´s fault?, I have asked you 3 times to explain to me what was that he did wrong.Do you mean Marco's fault? It's history now, and frankly what you or I think doesn't mean squat.

If you read my posts you would have seen that I stated why I thought Marco was at fault in my 1st two posts, but since you need help with this, I'll repeat it for you. He shouldn't have been on the outside in the short chute on the first lap of the race. And, it's the following drivers responsibility to avoid contact in open wheel racing.

Goes back to my basics of racing answer. You can't win the race if you don't finish it. Goal #1 is always, finish the race. Marco didn't.

That will have to work for you because I have to go grill some steaks, my guests will be arriving shortly.

Happy racing.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Just watched the last 30 laps of indy ( had to see how my boy tracey was doing) Looks like F1 now. No passing, money wins.

Not about driver skill any more with all the cars being close to being even ( well except for the penske money boys). Best of all, Mr America wins again with a foreign driver.

Tell me american fans how does it feel to have the biggest american owners running the biggest american race with foreign drivers? You wonder why tv ratings are down.

You know nothing about Indy X2

[call_me_andrew]

Darn that Helio Castroneves! It seems like the only way he can win a race is when he has a faster car, faster pit stops, more talent, and better luck. Where's the sport in that? :p

[ChicagocrewIRL]

The start was a mess... they need to do a better job , maybe practice aligning themselves in rows of 3. That start was ridiculous.

Was a great day for non big 3 teams... especially Panther, KV, and Vision.

Alex Tagliani we don't hate you... you did a great job today 33 to 11 and hopefully that's good enough for Best Rookie. Also your Conquest team redeemed themselves calling a brilliant race. Absolutely bloody fantastic.

Will Power you deserve to be added to a 2nd car at Luzco Dragon. You and Matos would make a great team.

Mario Moraes you need more situational awareness. Marco had every right to be where he was although his judgment was questionable, he had a right to be there.

Danica Patrick... I love the new non-bitXXy you. LOVE IT ! LOVE YOU ! LOVE YOUR CAR AND TEAM. I want to be DanicaFan2

Sarah Fisher GREAT JOB !!! you and your team should be very proud.

GET WELL SOON VITOR... I can't wait to hear all the crowing about breaking backs and stuff.... it's racing, it's dangerous.... duh

I wonder if I would be shunned for watching the Coca Cola 600 tonight . I watched the F1 Monaco this morning, I might as well make it a trifecta. NASCAR ugh :)

[FormerFF]

Was a great day for non big 3 teams... especially Panther, KV, and Vision.

Alex Tagliani we don't hate you... you did a great job today 33 to 11 and hopefully that's good enough for Best Rookie. Also your Conquest team redeemed themselves calling a brilliant race. Absolutely bloody fantastic.

Will Power you deserve to be added to a 2nd car at Luzco Dragon. You and Matos would make a great team.

Mario Moraes you need more situational awareness. Marco had every right to be where he was although his judgment was questionable, he had a right to be there.

Danica Patrick... I love the new non-bitXXy you. LOVE IT ! LOVE YOU ! LOVE YOUR CAR AND TEAM. I want to be DanicaFan2

Sarah Fisher GREAT JOB !!! you and your team should be very proud.

GET WELL SOON VITOR... I can't wait to hear all the crowing about breaking backs and stuff.... it's racing, it's dangerous.... duh

I do appreciate the new attitude from Danica as well, and I think it helped her in her finish today. Rather than getting all bent out of shape about overshooting her pit, she played the cards she was dealt quite well, and having her on the podium has got to be a good thing for the series.

[call_me_andrew]

I remember the VS. commentators mentioning at St. Pete that Danica isn't driving angry anymore. This makes me wonder if Danica has ever been a Sith Lord. Or should I say Sith Lady?

[anthonyvop]

Explain then (feel free to elaborate) how it was Marco´s mistake, what did he do wrong?
First lap
First Corner
Cold Tires
Mario was ahead.
Mario had the line
MARCO MESSED UP!!!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Our bugler playing Taps did a much better job than the bugler playing Taps at Charlotte. The Charlotte bugler hit more than a few sour notes.

[jarrambide]

(quote)First lap
First Corner
Cold Tires(quote ends)
That has nothing to do with who was at fault, can you attempt a pass in the last corner of the last lap?, how about the second lap?, the first lap, first corner proves that Marco has no patience, not that he made a mistake, Mario and every other driver should pay attention every corner of every lap, not all the corners of every lap after the first lap, last I checked there is lots of passing in the first corner of the first lap of every street and circuit race, are oval races any different?


(quote)Mario was ahead.(quote ends)
Funny thing, that is exactly what happens every time you try to pass another driver, they are ahead of you, are you telling me you shouldn´t try to pass the drivers that are ahead of you?


(quote)Mario had the line(quote)
Mario had a line all right, the problem is that Mario didn´t hold his line, the problem is that Mario had no idea that Marco was right there, that is Mario´s and his spotter´s fault, listen to Mario´s interview, he had no idea of what happened, he was the one that hit Marco´s car, but he was sure it was Marco´s car the one that hit his car, the look on his face while watching the replays on a monitor is priceless, he went from being mad to being sad.


(quote)MARCO MESSED UP!!(quote ends)
How, explain to me what he did wrong, all I read is, "first lap, first corner, why was he trying that so soon", that is not a mistake, explain to me what exactly was Marco´s mistake.

[spiritone]

I don't know anything about indy? Did i miss a bunch of passes for the lead? Didn't the best financed team in indy car win? Was there some american drivers contending for the lead before i started watching?

[jarrambide]

I don't know anything about indy? Did i miss a bunch of passes for the lead? Didn't the best financed team in indy car win? Was there some american drivers contending for the lead before i started watching?

Wasn´t Danica born in Wisconsin.

By the way, Castroneves is American, las time I checked Brazil was in the American continent.

[call_me_andrew]

I'm pretty sure Danica is from Illinois.

[jarrambide]

I'm pretty sure Danica is from Illinois.

I said she was born in Wisconsin, not that she was raised in Wisconsin, I´m from México, I was born in Spain, one those not negate the other.

[anthonyvop]

Wasn´t Danica born in Wisconsin.

By the way, Castroneves is American, las time I checked Brazil was in the American continent.
Lets not start that old argument again.

You ask Castro-Neves to fill out a form and when he gets to nationality what do you think he writes?????? American?

No

Brazilian.

F.Y.I. Father from Spain went to Cuba then the USA. Mother from Cuba(Her parents from Spain). I was born in the USA.

[garyshell]

Our bugler playing Taps did a much better job than the bugler playing Taps at Charlotte. The Charlotte bugler hit more than a few sour notes.


Can taps be played without using any of the valves on a trumpet? The guy at the 500 did it, leading me to think it might have been pre-recorded.

Gary

[jarrambide]

Lets not start that old argument again.

You ask Castro-Neves to fill out a form and when he gets to nationality what do you think he writes?????? American?

No

Brazilian.

F.Y.I. Father from Spain went to Cuba then the USA. Mother from Cuba(Her parents from Spain). I was born in the USA.


American |əˈmerikən|
adjective
of, relating to, or characteristic of the United States or its inhabitants : the election of a new American president.
• relating to or denoting the continents of America : the American continent south of the tropic of Cancer.

According to your logic Justin Wilson is not European because he is British, but in reality he is both, but the part about Helio wasn´t my real point, my real point was Danica is a US Citizen, he said no "American" drivers had a chance at winning, DP came in 3rd place.

FYI couldn´t care less about your ancestry or the ancestry of anyone else, I used my personal info just because iy helped my point about DP being born in one place, raised in another and currently living in another one, I don´t judge people by geographical or pedegree accidents.

[harvick#1]

geez, no love for Townsend Bell :(

he finishes ahead of the big boys in a underfunded car and all of you still go gagga over Patrick.

really wished the win would've been someone other than the Tax evader, but what can you do.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Can taps be played without using any of the valves on a trumpet? The guy at the 500 did it, leading me to think it might have been pre-recorded.

Gary

No way ! Only real men play Taps on bugles without valves. The old cavalry bugles didn't have valves. Who could bother with valves during a cavalry charge ?. It's all about the spit. Our guy did AWESOME baby !!!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

geez, no love for Townsend Bell :(

he finishes ahead of the big boys in a underfunded car and all of you still go gagga over Patrick.

really wished the win would've been someone other than the Tax evader, but what can you do.

methinks you will be throwing the same moniker at the new 3 time Indianapolis 500 Champion, a few more times in hatred when he becomes the first ever 5 time winner. Tax evader :First ever 5 time Indy 500 Champion

But I do question what happens to Townsend Bell. What are the precedent results for Indy one-offs that do well ?

[F1boat]

I am happy for the Spiderman. I don't care about taxes, he is a cool driver with cool personality and if something about him angers me, it is that he finished in front of Dan lol

[Mark in Oshawa]

Helio is innocent. The court said so. Leave it be..

As for Taps without the valves, military trumpeters do it all the time. As it was pointed out, just good lips.


Ole Helio knows what to do when given the piece under him, and Roger always has good cars at Indy (save one strange year..mmmm). 5 time winner? I will take him winning it 6 times if Danica never wins it. I came to the conclusion it isn't Danica I hate, it is the fawning ABC/ESPN cabal and how they cover her. She wins any more races, and it will be all Danica, all the time.

An ok 500; not the best I have seen, not the worst.

[TURN3]

Helio is innocent. The court said so. Leave it be..

Although the point is correct, let it go...this statement is inaccurate. Helio was found not guilty, not innocent. Big difference.

Great win for Helio here, probably the biggest boost OWR could get during this resurgence of sorts. Now if we can just get the racing to be descent again we'll be spoiled rotten.

[jarrambide]

Although the point is correct, let it go...this statement is inaccurate. Helio was found not guilty, not innocent. Big difference.

Errr, aren´t you suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise in this country?, some other countries you have to prove your innocence, in the US you are innocent until someone can prove you are guilty, meaning that every time you are found not guilty, the law assumes you are innocent.


But I couldn´t care less if he did it or not, I disliked Maradona as a person, loved to watch him play, I think M. Schumacher was full of himself, was a dirty driver and sometimes a cheat, loved to watch him race.

If Helio is guilty, let him pay the price, but since he wasn´t guilty, lets watch him race.

[garyshell]

Helio was found not guilty, not innocent. Big difference.

Since you are innocent until proven guilty, he most assuredly WAS found innocent since the verdict returned was not guilty. When was ANYONE ever proven innocent in a court of law?

Gary

[maxmach]

Ok, maybe the race itself wasn't so exciting, but all the story's, my god there were a lot of them. I haven't been this excited to see how everything would turn out in awhile. Makes for good press, and sometimes good racing, and Indy needs exposure right now, it's almost too bad Danica didn't throw one of her fits, but Helio winning (and crying my god the man crys) is one of the great storylines too. From Marko and G Rahal, to Danica to Helio to Tracy to Tags to Townsend, something to talk about, for everyone.
We need people to get interested for whatever reason, the racing will only improve, we could have something here.

[spiritone]

Spec cars not the problem, spec engines the problem. Give the drivers more power than they can use so driver skill becomes the determining factor.

Example, al unser vs fittapaldi or rick mears vs andretti,

There was disparity in the cars but the races were great because the best drivers rose to the top.

[TURN3]

Errr, aren´t you suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise in this country?, some other countries you have to prove your innocence, in the US you are innocent until someone can prove you are guilty, meaning that every time you are found not guilty, the law assumes you are innocent.


But I couldn´t care less if he did it or not, I disliked Maradona as a person, loved to watch him play, I think M. Schumacher was full of himself, was a dirty driver and sometimes a cheat, loved to watch him race.

If Helio is guilty, let him pay the price, but since he wasn´t guilty, lets watch him race.


Err..no. It might be possible you are as educated in the American justice system as I, but I doubt it. Fact: The jury or judge reads the statement "we the jury herbey finds the defendant NOT GUILTY..."where does that say we the jury find the defendant INNOCENT? Don't try to get too technical, you're out of your league. Was OJ innocent? You are "presumed innocent" before up to and through a trial which gives you the right to a trial. A defendant is never found "innocent". Helio and his co-defendants were found not guilty and for that I'm happy. This thread has nothing to do with that part of histroy. All I was doing was pointing out a mistake in a previous post and relating it to how well things have played out for the recovery of OWR. Helio is on a roll in more ways than one. He's a great person to have as the face of OWR and I think things couldn't have turned out better in the big picture for all of us fans.

If you want to argue legal definitions and technicalities, get a degree and start a new thread in a proper forum please.

[jarrambide]

If you want to argue legal definitions and technicalities, get a degree and start a new thread in a proper forum please.

Wise men follow their own advice so:

1) Since you decided to talk about about legal definitions before me, can I assume you see your wrong ways and you will never talk about those matters?

2) Since you don´t race for a living, can I assume you will stop posting in a racing forum until you become a driver or a racing engineer?

[TURN3]

Wise men follow their own advice so:

1) Since you decided to talk about about legal definitions before me, can I assume you see your wrong ways and you will never talk about those matters?

2) Since you don´t race for a living, can I assume you will stop posting in a racing forum until you become a driver or a racing engineer?

Again...you're way off topic and out of you're league. Why would you want to argue with an attorney over legal definitions on a racing forum? Are you serious? A wise man listens and educates himself before spewing at the mouth. God gave you 2 ears and 1 mouth (I presume). Every post of yours I've read is opinionated and virtually always wrong. You haven't even responded to the point I made that actually has to do with this thread in that Helio's ordeal and culmination of Indy win is good for the future of OW. Instead you choose to further discredit yourself...take a deep breath before you do so further and try to get on topic.

[jarrambide]

Again...you're way off topic and out of you're league. Why would you want to argue with an attorney over legal definitions on a racing forum? Are you serious? A wise man listens and educates himself before spewing at the mouth. God gave you 2 ears and 1 mouth (I presume). Every post of yours I've read is opinionated and virtually always wrong. You haven't even responded to the point I made that actually has to do with this thread in that Helio's ordeal and culmination of Indy win is good for the future of OW. Instead you choose to further discredit yourself...take a deep breath before you do so further and try to get on topic.


Sorry if I´m always wrong, not everyone can be god´s gift to the world, and even tough you are so perfect, awesome an educated you missed my opinion on Helio a few posts ago:

(quote alert)But I couldn´t care less if he did it or not, I disliked Maradona as a person, loved to watch him play, I think M. Schumacher was full of himself, was a dirty driver and sometimes a cheat, loved to watch him race.

If Helio is guilty, let him pay the price, but since he wasn´t guilty, lets watch him race.(quote alert ends)

By the way, are you sure you want to argue witn racing engineers and exdrivers in a racing forum?, we have a few, hoop, if you are reading this, I want to say sorry for having you discussing topics with us neophytes.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Gee Turn 3, he is a moderator, last time I looked a respected one. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to cop the attitude.

He is considered INNOCENT. PERIOD. You are that unless found guilty. WE both know there is a lot of gray areas with a lot of people vs the IRS, but he is a free man and people should just leave it be. You arguing semantics is silly in light of the fact the man was free to drive for Roger Penske and win the Indy 500. Roger doesn't allow people who make him look bad hang about driving his race cars. If the verdict is good enough for Roger, who gives a flying fidoo whether you think he is innocent or NOT guilty?

[call_me_andrew]

Spec cars not the problem, spec engines the problem. Give the drivers more power than they can use so driver skill becomes the determining factor.

Example, al unser vs fittapaldi or rick mears vs andretti,

There was disparity in the cars but the races were great because the best drivers rose to the top.

How does that make skill the determining factor? If driver X has more power than driver Y, than when X passes why it's not on account of skill.

[spiritone]

Very simple. Its not about one driver having more power, I'am talking about
ALL the drivers having more power. More power than downforce so the car is not so stuck down like it is right now. Then the more skillful driver with better throttle control will win out.

[Civic]

I've been a T.Bell fan since 1999 when he was an instructor at my track day at Buttonwillow. He was in Barber-Dodge that time. He kicked arse in Indy Lights. Anyone remember the Dixon-Bell arse drag at Fontana in 2000?

2001 I think he set a record of lapping the entire field at one of the races. He did the Euro ovals for Patrick Racing before doing most of the 2002 season where it took 5 extra races for Mario Dominguez to win the ROTY title. I remember Walker wanted to run Bell in the finale instead of Takagi, who I think was injured but still cleared to drive.

Bell's problem is that his first year in any formula he crashes a lot trying to find the limit. The second year is usually when he wins or does well.

He did well IMO his single year in F3000 considering he never drove the tracks before and he was an outsider from the States. IIRC he had one podium. I bet he would've done way better if he stayed for a second season.

He did a lot of subbing in the IRL and from what I remember he was always the fastest Chevy driver despite not being a full time driver. I thought the Chipster was unfair to T. Bell when Lazier crashed into a spinning Bell.

He was said to provide excellent feedback during his Jaguar F1 tests. He also did a test or two for Honda but it was only in a straight line to shakedown some systems in the car.

[rsmith16]

Lets not start that old argument again.

You ask Castro-Neves to fill out a form and when he gets to nationality what do you think he writes?????? American?

No

Brazilian.

F.Y.I. Father from Spain went to Cuba then the USA. Mother from Cuba(Her parents from Spain). I was born in the USA.

I know what I'm about to write is OT but I guess it's the same with a lot of Brits... On applications I always say I'm Scottish rather than British...

[SarahFan]

Why was I not informed of the change in the rules?, when was being on the outside in the first lap banned?, did they also banned passing in the first lap?

It doesn´t matter if it is the first or the last lap, you can be in the outside, you can pass, you can race, some will tell you that you shouldn´t try that on the first lap because you have 199 more, why bother to have 200 laps then?, lets race only 20, my point is that you don´t get out jail free card for being a bad driver on the first lap, if you can´t or don´t want to concentrate on every one of the laps. don´t run the race.

This was a racing incident, nothing more, nothing less, but this was indded Moraes´ fault.

Barhardt told the drivers in the drivers meeting that he wanted them single file thru 1 and 2...

if you watch the video mario followed the line of all the cars in front of him.... everyone of them went right up next to the wall....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1adgkuIbyo
^watch the incar from will at the 2;14 mark..........

marco should have backed off the 5 or 6 feet....

IMO 100% marco's fault


*and Marco made himself look like a fool with his post incident remarks

[jmyoung]

Can taps be played without using any of the valves on a trumpet? The guy at the 500 did it, leading me to think it might have been pre-recorded.

Gary

I'm SGT Joseph Young--I played Taps at the Indy 500. Taps is supposed to be played in the key of Bflat--which for the trumpet that means you don't need any valves. It's because Taps was originally played on a bugle, and bugles don't have valves. You can obviously Taps in any key (using valves) but the Military says it is to be played in Bflat.

[garyshell]

I'm SGT Joseph Young--I played Taps at the Indy 500. Taps is supposed to be played in the key of Bflat--which for the trumpet that means you don't need any valves. It's because Taps was originally played on a bugle, and bugles don't have valves. You can obviously Taps in any key (using valves) but the Military says it is to be played in Bflat.


SGT Young, before I start please be assured I was in no way attempting to cast any aspersions on you or your ability to play the trumpet. Knowing that in the past there have been prerecorded instances of various musical performances at the Speedway to insure broadcast quality, I thought, incorrectly obviously, that might have been the case Sunday.

Your explanation makes perfect sense. I have seen Taps played on a bugle before and on a trumpet using valves. But what I didn't realize was the bit about being able to not use the valves if played in the correct key.

Thanks for coming here to clear that up. And please except my apologies if you took any umbrage with my initial inquiry.

Gary

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm SGT Joseph Young--I played Taps at the Indy 500. Taps is supposed to be played in the key of Bflat--which for the trumpet that means you don't need any valves. It's because Taps was originally played on a bugle, and bugles don't have valves. You can obviously Taps in any key (using valves) but the Military says it is to be played in Bflat.

And let me say again, OUR GUY DID AN AWESOME JOB !!! Not an off note during the whole piece. The place was absolutely silent save for the lone and solemn call of Taps. GREAT JOB

If you watch the pre-race for the Coke 600 their guy didn't do as well; more than a few very sour notes. I believe he used a trumpet with valves. Was still solemn though.

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for your service to our nation. I could only hope to have as much purpose in my life as those that protect our nation.

[jmyoung]

SGT Young, before I start please be assured I was in no way attempting to cast any aspersions on you or your ability to play the trumpet. Knowing that in the past there have been prerecorded instances of various musical performances at the Speedway to insure broadcast quality, I thought, incorrectly obviously, that might have been the case Sunday.

Your explanation makes perfect sense. I have seen Taps played on a bugle before and on a trumpet using valves. But what I didn't realize was the bit about being able to not use the valves if played in the correct key.

Thanks for coming here to clear that up. And please except my apologies if you took any umbrage with my initial inquiry.

Gary

Oh no!! I didn't mean for my post to sound angry or anything! I didn't think you sounded anything negative at all! I just get asked that question about Taps a lot so I love informing people about how it's played.

I hope I didn't sound like I was offended because I wasn't! I appreciate all that compliments I've been getting and playing Taps was a great honor. I got rid of my nerves about 60 seconds before I walked onto that pagoda.

Anyhow, we're all good here. :) I appreciate the compliments and am glad to hear people liked it.

Thanks,

Joe :)

[jmyoung]

And let me say again, OUR GUY DID AN AWESOME JOB !!! Not an off note during the whole piece. The place was absolutely silent save for the lone and solemn call of Taps. GREAT JOB

If you watch the pre-race for the Coke 600 their guy didn't do as well; more than a few very sour notes. I believe he used a trumpet with valves. Was still solemn though.

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for your service to our nation. I could only hope to have as much purpose in my life as those that protect our nation.

Any thank you very much! I love my country and am blessed to have had to opportunity to play for so many people watching. :)

~Joe

[garyshell]

Oh no!! I didn't mean for my post to sound angry or anything! I didn't think you sounded anything negative at all! I just get asked that question about Taps a lot so I love informing people about how it's played.

I hope I didn't sound like I was offended because I wasn't! I appreciate all that compliments I've been getting and playing Taps was a great honor. I got rid of my nerves about 60 seconds before I walked onto that pagoda.

Anyhow, we're all good here. :) I appreciate the compliments and am glad to hear people liked it.

Thanks,

Joe :)


You didn't sound angry at all, I just wanted to be sure though!

Gary

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Any thank you very much! I love my country and am blessed to have had to opportunity to play for so many people watching. :)

~Joe

I'll be the first to sign on to drafting you to be an Indy 500 Tradition like Jim Nabors and Forence Henderson. You should play at the 500 every year til you can't pucker no more. :)

I was never a big fan of the Purdue Marching Band playing Taps. I think the lone bugle call is so much more solemn and I am so glad they changed it. Not sure of the exact year of the first race with just the lone bugler though.

[jarrambide]

Barhardt told the drivers in the drivers meeting that he wanted them single file thru 1 and 2...

if you watch the video mario followed the line of all the cars in front of him.... everyone of them went right up next to the wall....



If this is true, then it changes completely my pov, but that still doesn´t take all the responsibility from Mario and his spotter.

And if true, what a joke of a start, lets have 199 laps then, I do remember hating orders like that in CC.

[DBell]

Barhardt told the drivers in the drivers meeting that he wanted them single file thru 1 and 2...
http://

Your saying that the drivers were told not to race through first 2 turns after the race started??? Wow, I thought once the green flag dropped the drivers were expected to start racing, not have the opening of the race choreographed by race control. Well then shame on Marco for trying to race instead of following the script. :rolleyes:

[NickFalzone]

It was barely rows of three on the first try and looked even worse on the second. You can't count on the last 20 laps being exciting, but you can usually count on the first, and they really blew it on that. I figured last year with all the rookies it would have been more of a problem, but I remember it being a much cleaner start.

[SarahFan]

If this is true, then it changes completely my pov, but that still doesn´t take all the responsibility from Mario and his spotter.

And if true, what a joke of a start, lets have 199 laps then, I do remember hating orders like that in CC.


what also needs to taken into account is that the incident didn't happen in the corner... it was the short-chute....

and as i pointed out all six drivers in front of mario took it right up next to the wall....

no way Marco should have had his nose where it was....he was no where near beside mario

[chuck34]

I'm SGT Joseph Young--I played Taps at the Indy 500. Taps is supposed to be played in the key of Bflat--which for the trumpet that means you don't need any valves. It's because Taps was originally played on a bugle, and bugles don't have valves. You can obviously Taps in any key (using valves) but the Military says it is to be played in Bflat.

SGT Young. Thank you sooo much for your service to this nation. It is a very noble and honorable thing you do!

And your playing of Taps was outstanding! One of the best I've heard in a long time. I also found the palying at the 600 to be lacking. As well as those at the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. Maybe you should send out a copy of the 500 tape to everyone.

[chuck34]

As for the Mario/Marco deal. I think it was not 100% Marco's fault, but it was mostly his fault.

"The Line" goes up to the wall in the short chute. The leading driver is allowed to take whatever line he wants, and that is usually "The Line" as it was in this case. Sure the spotter should have warned Mario that someone was there. But that doesn't change the fact that Marco was the trailing driver, and as such has the responsibility for avoiding contact. It is the first lap, first turn, of the biggest race of the year. Marco should have anticipated what Mario was going to do (I bet a majority of us on this board could have seen that comming), and backed out. He wouldn't have lost that much ground, and it would have ment that he could have finished the race. Plus Marco is a vet. and Mario is a rook. Vets. need to be aware that rooks don't always make the move that you expect them to.

Bottom line, Marco should have used his head and backed out.

[TURN3]

I see people talking about how terrible the start was, which it was. Surprised not to see a single post about PT passing the entire 4th row around the outside of turn 1 and from the inside of row 5 no less. I had my eyes glued to him because I bet he'd pass Danica in T1 or put her in the wall...I won the bet!! As has been noted, he was outstanding on restarts all day and even though he didn't have the car under him to run at the front, he proved to be the real PT by making some daring exciting moves around the outside of all the turns. I seen at least 3 passes around the outside of TURN3...which 2 time winner Helio claims can't be done! PT was the show as far as I could see in an otherwise mostly boring race.