Indycar and the F1 budget cap

[Andrewmcm]

Just a thought about the current state of affairs over in Formula 1 - should Tony George be talking to some of the F1 teams/manufacturers about potential interest in coming over to Indycar? Those teams and manufacturers could have a lot of spare dollars lying around next year....

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I don't see any F1 manufacturers racing in a spec series and I don't see TG opening up the formula because it would throw out nearly all current teams. There are more sensible issues for the IRL management to talk about. What he could do is to sign up the Indy road course for a possible breakaway "GPWC" race.

[rob01]

I cant imagine the likes of ferrari, mclaren or bmw moving to indycar.
like dr krogshoj said its a spec formula, in formula 1 the teams push the boundries of the technical regulations set out by the FIA to the max.

the teams engineers get to show off there ability.
also indycar has no races in europe, china or any of the up and coming countries that are attracting f1 such as dubai.

bmw, ferrari ect sell cars all over the world so entering a formula that is american based(not sure if there are other races they have outside the us apart from japan in indycar) doesnt make sense.

[methanolHuffer]

That would be great to see the road course opened to formula cars again.

I'd like to see a super-ticket weekend featuring 3 different races: 1) Saturday morning Atlantics 2) Saturday afternoon ALMS 4 hour race 3) Sunday "GPWC" race like Dr Krog suggests.

I'm thinking Max and Bernie would make concessions to avoid an actual break away, though. They talk tough in situations, but they know if Ferrari goes, a large portion of the F1 teams will follow.

[Jag_Warrior]

I think Tony can call Ferrari or any other F1 team he chooses to call. But spec or not, why would Ferrari, BMW, Toyota or any of the other big FOTA teams come to a series that runs 100% Honda engines???

[Andrewmcm]

Well that's the point I'm kind of aiming at - if any manufacturers show an interest in joining Indycar what's to stop TG opening up the engine program to allow more than one marque to provide engines for the series? Or even chassis if there is enough interest?

[DBell]

Well that's the point I'm kind of aiming at - if any manufacturers show an interest in joining Indycar what's to stop TG opening up the engine program to allow more than one marque to provide engines for the series? Or even chassis if there is enough interest?

I can't see this happening. For one thing, I don't think Ferrari is going to want to replace their F1 program to become an engine or chassis supplier. They are going to want to come in as a factory team. The IRL's lack of sponsors, TV ratings, international appeal and overall lack of stature as a premier series at the moment isn't going to make them appealing to a factory team that is used to world wide attention F1 has offered.

More likely, a team like Ferrari would join the LMS and ALMS. They have a rich sport car heritage and returning to Le Mans would be a natural. Plus the high tech nature of those series is going to be attractive to an F1 team, unlike the currant specs in Indycar.

Most likely, a deal is made between the FIA and the FOTA, so Ferrari and the others continue in F1.

[MDS]

I think there are two issues here.

The first one being, will any F-1 team come to the IRL? No. Ferrari and McLaren have budgets great than the entire field combined. It would be like letting an NFL team play against high schoolers. Letting any of those teams come in would radically alter the capability of the field and pretty much destroy the spec series TG has worked so hard to build.

The second question being, will any engine manufacture's come over? Based on what we've seen the only manufacture that has shown any interest is VW/Audi. However, I wouldn't rule out the idea of Mercedes or Toyota coming to the series. The costs are low enough it could be a viable thing for their NA divisions to look at. I still the idea of Mazada badging a Cosworth in 2011 isn't out of the question.

As far as teams like Ferrari and Renault leaving F-1. They're in a rather difficult position because they would have to pull 8-9 teams with them to create a series because they want an unlimited series, and less than 10 cars isn't really a race. If they go to sports car, they'd outspend everyone there in minutes and win everything. Same thing with every other open-wheel series in the world.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I think there are two issues here.

The first one being, will any F-1 team come to the IRL? No. Ferrari and McLaren have budgets great than the entire field combined. It would be like letting an NFL team play against high schoolers. Letting any of those teams come in would radically alter the capability of the field and pretty much destroy the spec series TG has worked so hard to build.

The second question being, will any engine manufacture's come over? Based on what we've seen the only manufacture that has shown any interest is VW/Audi. However, I wouldn't rule out the idea of Mercedes or Toyota coming to the series. The costs are low enough it could be a viable thing for their NA divisions to look at. I still the idea of Mazada badging a Cosworth in 2011 isn't out of the question.

As far as teams like Ferrari and Renault leaving F-1. They're in a rather difficult position because they would have to pull 8-9 teams with them to create a series because they want an unlimited series, and less than 10 cars isn't really a race. If they go to sports car, they'd outspend everyone there in minutes and win everything. Same thing with every other open-wheel series in the world.

At the moment, 7 F1 teams are willing to quit. Only Williams, Brawn and Force India are willing to stay under the current regulations. That's why it's going to be changed, IMHO.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well that's the point I'm kind of aiming at - if any manufacturers show an interest in joining Indycar what's to stop TG opening up the engine program to allow more than one marque to provide engines for the series? Or even chassis if there is enough interest?

I understand. Anything is possible, Andrew. Christie Brinkley is a free woman again. So there is that possibility that I now have a shot. But like Ferrari or McLaren coming to the IRL, it's just not too likely.

I haven't kept up with where the IRL is on the engine formula for 2011, 2012 or whenever it's supposed to change. But how many of the companies that supply F1 engines are still (ever were) in the discussions with the IRL? That's several years out, right? Or are you saying that George could ask the F1 teams to bring over their current 2.4 liter V8's? What would they put them in? The current F1 chassis aren't oval (tested) cars and they're much lighter than the Dallara. If using the Dallara, I doubt that the F1 drivetrain would easily fit. These are primarily European operations. Though most have a market presence in North America, the IRL has a lower profile now than it's ever had. So the question would be, why would they do this? I understand how it would benefit the IRL. But how would it benefit Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota, Renault (especially)? As for Red Bull, if they wanted to be in the IRL, they could just sponsor one or more cars, like they used to.

The rumor mill has the F1 big hitters going to sports cars and/or Le Mans (or just sitting out), if this thing with the FIA can't be resolved. It's not like most of them don't need to cut costs where ever they can.

It's a nice thought, but... I don't see it.

[MDS]

At the moment, 7 F1 teams are willing to quit. Only Williams, Brawn and Force India are willing to stay under the current regulations. That's why it's going to be changed, IMHO.

Yeah, I think the whole thing is posturing. Now we get to watch who blinks first.

BTW, its not the current regulations (although they aren't happy about that one either) that they are preparing to bolt, its the 2010 restrictions that would get rid of pit stops and create a two-tiered championship.

[methanolHuffer]

Yeah, I think the whole thing is posturing. Now we get to watch who blinks first.


That's another facet to this. Will there be a Forgive and Forget attitude when it has been settled? Maybe business is business, but there's going to be some resentment on both sides. Smaller teams will get more of the brunt.

Interesting times, Indy will have it's own things to sort out. Very different than what the F1 guys are dealing with.

[MDS]

One thing that might happen though, is if there isn't another series formed and everyone migrates to a different series I wouldn't be surprised to see Red Bull come into Indy Car, either with an existing team, like KV Racing, HVM, or NHL, that doesn't have a full sponsorship package but has some ties to Red Bull, or start their own team.

If they do walk away I wouldn't be shocked to see Sebastien Bourdias and Sebastien Vettle in a new Red Bull team in 2010, but Red Bull is the only sponsor I could see migrating to Indy.

[DBell]

One thing that might happen though, is if there isn't another series formed and everyone migrates to a different series I wouldn't be surprised to see Red Bull come into Indy Car, either with an existing team, like KV Racing, HVM, or NHL, that doesn't have a full sponsorship package but has some ties to Red Bull, or start their own team.

If they do walk away I wouldn't be shocked to see Sebastien Bourdias and Sebastien Vettle in a new Red Bull team in 2010, but Red Bull is the only sponsor I could see migrating to Indy.

Perhaps you meant Sebastien Buemi instead of Vettel because I would be shocked to see Vettel come over to Indycar. The pundits are tabbing him as the next Schumacher and if Red Bull leaves, I would expect him to sign with another F1 team. Thinking about it, it would surprise me to see Buemi leave F1 for Indycar considering how well he's done so far as a rookie.

[MDS]

Contracts are contracts, and Buemi and Vettle both have long term contracts with Red Bull. Then wanted to send Christian Klein to Champ Car in 2006, so its not like they haven't moved a driver before.

[anthonyvop]

Contracts are contracts, and Buemi and Vettle both have long term contracts with Red Bull. Then wanted to send Christian Klein to Champ Car in 2006, so its not like they haven't moved a driver before.
Contracts are Contracts.
I am sure that Vettle's contract is for F1. even if not any good lawyer would be able to get him out of it.

[Gluaistean]

I can't see this happening. For one thing, I don't think Ferrari is going to want to replace their F1 program to become an engine or chassis supplier. They are going to want to come in as a factory team. The IRL's lack of sponsors, TV ratings, international appeal and overall lack of stature as a premier series at the moment isn't going to make them appealing to a factory team that is used to world wide attention F1 has offered.

More likely, a team like Ferrari would join the LMS and ALMS. They have a rich sport car heritage and returning to Le Mans would be a natural. Plus the high tech nature of those series is going to be attractive to an F1 team, unlike the currant specs in Indycar.

Most likely, a deal is made between the FIA and the FOTA, so Ferrari and the others continue in F1.

AIGP has Ferrari engines. However, I totally agree with you. The US is a part of the market that these teams would like but they sure are not making great waves to get back.

Asia is a bigger market now , particularly the UAE and other ME countries. Maybe Hugo will get a F1 deal from Bernie Moneybags. He has oil.

Anyway, what is this silly cap about? Ferrari will definitely go and so too will Renault and Mercedes no matter what they claim.

And then who will we have , Tata and Yugo and that Russian thing whatever it's called.

[NickFalzone]

I would not be surprised to see a couple of the teams, like Red Bull, move over in the right circumstances. However, in many of those cases I doubt it would be with the same drivers. Contract or not, a Vettel or probably even a Buemi would not be caught in an IRL car. There are a few, like Sato and Bourdais, that I could see making the switch. And they might do it regardless of how this budget cap works out.

[garyshell]

Contracts are Contracts.
I am sure that Vettle's contract is for F1. even if not any good lawyer would be able to get him out of it.


Don't be so sure, isn't he the guy who negotited his own F1 contract?

Gary

[garyshell]

AIGP has Ferrari engines. However, I totally agree with you. The US is a part of the market that these teams would like but they sure are not making great waves to get back.

Asia is a bigger market now , particularly the UAE and other ME countries. Maybe Hugo will get a F1 deal from Bernie Moneybags. He has oil.

Anyway, what is this silly cap about? Ferrari will definitely go and so too will Renault and Mercedes no matter what they claim.

And then who will we have , Tata and Yugo and that Russian thing whatever it's called.


You me Tatra?

http://www.ohioconcours.com/largeimage.asp?txt_image=_DSC5435&txt_year=2008

Gary

[bravefish]

Theres more chance of Ducati coming to the IRL than Ferrari...