Wales Rally GB Under Threat....

[Doon]

oh dear :(

I hope a solution can be found.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8000216.stm

[BDunnell]

To be honest, I think that the Welsh Assembly is quite right. With the WRC and the economy in their current states, should what is a government in all but name be using taxpayers' money to sponsor such an event?

[Tom206wrc]

:(

[Rally_Rocks]

My understanding is that there is very little chance of Wales Rally GB now happening this year. The Welsh Assembley Government were paying a fortune for sponsorship rights and even with 6 months still to go, it us highly unlikely that a stand in sponsor can be found.

This has to leave a very big question mark over the future of Rally GB. What will be very interesting is ISC's response. I can't see it going down well with them if the event doesn't happen.

Maybe ISC should be looking at possible alternatives for the last event of the year. My suggestion would be Rally Japan, although the teams won't like an extra long haul event. What about Corsica though? It would be an early end to the season, but logistically very straight forward. Oh, and the French team would love it!!!

[patwalsh13]

To be honest, I think that the Welsh Assembly is quite right. With the WRC and the economy in their current states, should what is a government in all but name be using taxpayers' money to sponsor such an event?

As shown below (although based on a 2006 report), the money invested into the event by WAG reaps financial benefits for local organisations and people.



The Wales Rally GB has gone from strength to strength in terms of organisation and is acknowledged as one of the best rounds of the Rally Championship and is estimated to be worth up to £40m to the Welsh economy.

The economic impact study revealed that the 2004 Rally generated £7m in additional Welsh output from short term expenditure alone.

Between 2000 and 2005 the rally is estimated to have contributed at least £28-£30m to regional output through event receipts and spending alone.

Every pound of public sector support generates an additional £2 to the Welsh economy, providing a return of 200%, while the branding and marketing opportunities gives Wales an international platform through media exposure which is valued at £2m pa.

[Psycho!]

Maybe ISC should be looking at possible alternatives for the last event of the year. My suggestion would be Rally Japan, although the teams won't like an extra long haul event. What about Corsica though? It would be an early end to the season, but logistically very straight forward. Oh, and the French team would love it!!!
No Corsica!!!! :eek: Turkey,NZ,a gravel Swedish rally are better alternatives!! ;)

[JAM]

They will cut 2 miliions to the 2009 event of for the 2010 event?

[Rally_Rocks]

Given the choice, and looking at best return on tax payers investment, where would you recommend the Welsh Assembley Government spend their multi million pound sponsorship war chest? Wales Rally GB or the Ryder Cup? A service park stuck between a scrap heap and a building site on a wet and muddy excuse for a waterfront in Swansea, or a slick, well presented, well attended tented village for the golf? And maybe the clincher, 45 minutes on Dave with some has been comic, or wall to wall coverage on Sky? No brainer I believe.

[BDunnell]

Given the choice, and looking at best return on tax payers investment, where would you recommend the Welsh Assembley Government spend their multi million pound sponsorship war chest? Wales Rally GB or the Ryder Cup? A service park stuck between a scrap heap and a building site on a wet and muddy excuse for a waterfront in Swansea, or a slick, well presented, well attended tented village for the golf? And maybe the clincher, 45 minutes on Dave with some has been comic, or wall to wall coverage on Sky? No brainer I believe.

Couldn't agree more.

[patwalsh13]

This has to leave a very big question mark over the future of Rally GB. What will be very interesting is ISC's response. I can't see it going down well with them if the event doesn't happen.

Maybe ISC should be looking at possible alternatives for the last event of the year. My suggestion would be Rally Japan, although the teams won't like an extra long haul event. What about Corsica though? It would be an early end to the season, but logistically very straight forward. Oh, and the French team would love it!!!

Another option is the possible amalgamation of Wales Rally GB with the new IRC's Rally of Scotland. Obviously slightly different rules for the 2 championships but with a dual permit possibly the IRC contenders could run the stages in advance of the WRC entry.

[AndyRAC]

Given the choice, and looking at best return on tax payers investment, where would you recommend the Welsh Assembley Government spend their multi million pound sponsorship war chest? Wales Rally GB or the Ryder Cup? A service park stuck between a scrap heap and a building site on a wet and muddy excuse for a waterfront in Swansea, or a slick, well presented, well attended tented village for the golf? And maybe the clincher, 45 minutes on Dave with some has been comic, or wall to wall coverage on Sky? No brainer I believe.

It shouldn't take even a nanosecond to work out, should it? One is a world wide event watched by millions, which has all kinds of excitement in the run up to it, and who will get into each team, etc, the other thinks that it is. I honestly don't think everyone connected with it realises just how far the event and sport has fallen of the radar - and that is one of it's biggest problems. I know it's often said, and we know the reasons why, but it really needs to be a National event - not a Welsh one.

[J4MIE]

<Nelson from the Simpsons>
Ha ha.
</Nelson from the Simpsons>

Depends how quickly they can sue them I guess, looks like they had a contract in place but as they are saying, surely the breach of contract is that Rally GB will not be in the WRC next year and that is why they don't want to continue.

I have next to no interest in the event anyway and would much rather fork out hundreds of pounds to go to a foreign event. But I am sure the £2m is more than given back by the event taking place. But of course it's a headline grabbing figure and most people will not look past that.

Please do not let this affect the RAC or Rally Scotland, they don't deserve to be dragged down to the WRC's level!!

[BDunnell]

But I am sure the £2m is more than given back by the event taking place.

I always have the feeling that the figures stating the economic benefits of hosting major events are, shall we say, somewhat exaggerated and that it would be rather difficult to break it down into specifics.

[Doon]

Sorry but I can't understand where this £2m investment goes? As far as I understand it's the initial investment every year, but if the figures are true and are make that money back 3 fold in the local economy, why stop?

...And what do they spend this investment on?.....please don't say advetising, apart for a random page in MN and a 20sec add on Dave in WRC programme breaks, apart from that i've seen bugger all in the last 5 years in terms advertising.

Do competitors entry fees not cover a decent proportion of the event running costs?.....and where does our ticket money go, cos i'm pretty sure it doesn't all go to charity (i've never seen any info on where our hard earned £20 per stage is spent!)

In my opinion, its harsh of the backers but I don't understand their logic if it creates jobs and cash for local economy. At the same time the organisers have shot themselves in the foot, cr*p service area and location, rip off stage entry prices and using same dull format and stages for years......

......this is just another nail in the WRC coffin, can be many more before the casket is closed completely, can it?

[BDunnell]

Sorry but I can't understand where this £2m investment goes? As far as I understand it's the initial investment every year, but if the figures are true and are make that money back 3 fold in the local economy, why stop?

I would suspect it's because the money isn't made back three-fold in the local economy.



......this is just another nail in the WRC coffin, can be many more before the casket is closed completely, can it?

I'm sure there will still be a World Rally Championship, but which format it will take, who can say? My worry for the sport at present is that the profile of the IRC, after a great start in Monte Carlo, seems to have fizzled out a bit. Maybe that's just me.

[ste898]

Get this event pulled out of Wales ASAP it should never have been stuck in the for so many years anyway disgraceful!!!!!!!!!!

[Viridian Black]

My worry for the sport at present is that the profile of the IRC, after a great start in Monte Carlo, seems to have fizzled out a bit. Maybe that's just me
definately, the safari rally was a complete none event for me. the only thing that made brazil was meeke winning. lets hope the european events have more entries, with proton and VW confirming programmes and skoda continuing its looking good at the moment.

[AndyRAC]

I would suspect it's because the money isn't made back three-fold in the local economy.



I'm sure there will still be a World Rally Championship, but which format it will take, who can say? My worry for the sport at present is that the profile of the IRC, after a great start in Monte Carlo, seems to have fizzled out a bit. Maybe that's just me.

Funnily enough, I was thinking that today - we've had Monte, Curitiba and the Safari, in which no-one entered.
Anyway, rose-tinted glasses time - I was watching 1989 RAC Rally on You-Tube - and I'm convinced the sport needs to go back to that type of event, particularly in GB -just look at the crowds in the Sunday 'MickeyMouse' stages - imagine they've paid £15 per car and there are 5,6,7 of these stages. Those stages are for the casual 'once-a-year fan', the forests should be for the commited fan. We all know why the changes were made, but somebody needs to accept that the modern type events haven't worked, certainly not here in UK. FiA/ISC have to allow a greater freedom for routes, it's a no-brainer, and possibly the days of the week in which the events take place.

[Doon]

I would suspect it's because the money isn't made back three-fold in the local economy.



I'm sure there will still be a World Rally Championship, but which format it will take, who can say? My worry for the sport at present is that the profile of the IRC, after a great start in Monte Carlo, seems to have fizzled out a bit. Maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by Welsh Assembly Goverment
The Wales Rally GB has gone from strength to strength in terms of organisation and is acknowledged as one of the best rounds of the Rally Championship and is estimated to be worth up to £40m to the Welsh economy.

The economic impact study revealed that the 2004 Rally generated £7m in additional Welsh output from short term expenditure alone.

Between 2000 and 2005 the rally is estimated to have contributed at least £28-£30m to regional output through event receipts and spending alone.

Every pound of public sector support generates an additional £2 to the Welsh economy, providing a return of 200%, while the branding and marketing opportunities gives Wales


....dont know how true it is though?lol

[BDunnell]

Anyway, rose-tinted glasses time - I was watching 1989 RAC Rally on You-Tube - and I'm convinced the sport needs to go back to that type of event, particularly in GB -just look at the crowds in the Sunday 'MickeyMouse' stages - imagine they've paid £15 per car and there are 5,6,7 of these stages. Those stages are for the casual 'once-a-year fan', the forests should be for the commited fan. We all know why the changes were made, but somebody needs to accept that the modern type events haven't worked, certainly not here in UK. FiA/ISC have to allow a greater freedom for routes, it's a no-brainer, and possibly the days of the week in which the events take place.

I agree. The way the WRC has gone has done nothing but take the sport away from the public while not making them want to watch it on TV. And it's not through rose-tinted glasses that the likes of you and I view the years gone by — it was just better, and the public went to those stages in their thousands, even when there wasn't really a British driver able to win.

[AndyRAC]

Originally Posted by Welsh Assembly Goverment
The Wales Rally GB has gone from strength to strength in terms of organisation and is acknowledged as one of the best rounds of the Rally Championship and is estimated to be worth up to £40m to the Welsh economy.

The economic impact study revealed that the 2004 Rally generated £7m in additional Welsh output from short term expenditure alone.

Between 2000 and 2005 the rally is estimated to have contributed at least £28-£30m to regional output through event receipts and spending alone.

Every pound of public sector support generates an additional £2 to the Welsh economy, providing a return of 200%, while the branding and marketing opportunities gives Wales


....dont know how true it is though?lol

Gone from strength to strength? Really, so is the sport and event better for it?

[Bazza2541]

I've said it many many times before and I'll say it again now.
Rally is a marathon not a sprint, and until it goes back to the marathon format it will not do all that it can.

[MJW]

Its interesting that the politians and WAG have steadfastly refused to comment on the story.
I know people who have attempted to get comment and they have been met with a resolute "no comment" others have expressed shock that the story is out in the public domain, especially so soon before WAG could comment. My personal feeling is that I hope that a compromise is reached allowing the 2009 event to run, and allow time for IMS / ISC or whoever to get a viable sponsor for when Rally GB is back in the championship, whether that is 2010, (as at present Rally GB is NOT on the 2010 calendar) or 2011. Another facet to this story I heared was the year out in 2010 is what was causing WAG concern, but I believe that as far as WAG is concerned the main event in 2010 is the Ryder cup, the so called return on investment from WRGB is mega insignificant compared to Ryder Cup.

[AndyRAC]

Mega insignificant is putting it mildly. The Ryder Cup is the main event, sorry, IMS - you must be living in cloud cuckoo land if you don't think it is.

[muscrae]

No Corsica!!!! :eek: Turkey,NZ,a gravel Swedish rally are better alternatives!! ;)

Rally of Turkey would bring perfect competition at this time of the year due to slightly deterioting weather conditions around the city of Antalya.
I don't mean the conditions we had in 2006 of course.

[MJW]

I understand that things are not too sweet in Norway after another financial loss for Rally Norway 2009. Someone, somewhere has been very greedy about making money from rallying. I wonder what will happen with Rally Ireland, Republic of Ireland has been stripped from its AAA financial status to AA (economist speak for you are not such a good place as you were) and the old tensions are sadly making a return in Northern Ireland. Western Australia Government were the first to pull the plug on Rally Oz and that took a while to come back. It is inot exactly easy to get commercial sponsorship these days as I dont suppsose any of the banks, insurance companies,airlines, motor manufactureres, property development companies, etc would be rushing in with a 2.2 M GBP / 2.5M€ investment. WRC is in trouble................

[AndyRAC]

Agree that somebody/some people got very greedy, or at least tried to make a fast buck out of WRC, and look what has happened. The interesting thing is the amount of money they were making - that is the main point of the press release, not anything about the sporting side of it. I think that says it all!! We all knew we were being fleeced, but still kept going, fools that we are/were.
Years ago the aim was to put on a fantastic Nationwide event, and if it made money, well that is an added bonus - now it's the opposite.
Just as a comparison, I've dug out a Rally spectator pack from 1995 and one from last year - no surprises the one from 1995 is far thicker and more in it, posters, stickers, pen, rally timetable charts - all in a plastic folder. Last year's was a programme in a plastic bag with a poster.

[Viridian Black]

Last year's was a programme in a plastic bag with a poster i got a castrol ice scrape as well :P

[AndiG]

.....and where does our ticket money go, cos i'm pretty sure it doesn't all go to charity (i've never seen any info on where our hard earned £20 per stage is spent!)

I´ve never seen another WRC event with similar high ticket charges (about 150€ for the rally pass!!!). How do other events without charges (like greece, france, monte carlo, turkey, spain,...) get paid? :confused:

[MJW]

A snapshot of some events in WRC.
1. Rally Ireland struggled with entries this year, similar to WRGB it is sponsored by Governments in the Republic and Northern Ireland. The credit ratinf for the country of Ireland has been downgraded from AAA to AA recently, Northern Ireland is part of UK and is also suffering financially - like WAG, public money has to be well spent.
2. Monte - probably the most significant name in WRC cant be bothred whether its in WRC anymore having had success with IRC.
3. Sweden - made most of its permamnet organising team redundant recently, leaving 1 man as a salaried permamnet member of the team, will rely on volunteers.
4. Rally Norway - after 2 runnings big financial losses, read the Norwegian press, lots going on in the background and questions being asked, and thats in a rich country like Norway.
5.Rally Japan - had a 'near miss' a few years ago with sponsors leading to a change in location and new sponsor. This years Rally Japan (year out of WRC) has been cancelled due to the financial crisis in Japan.
Not a very bright picture is it?

[Brother John]

Wake up guys, this would not be the last bad news!

[J4MIE]

Yes I can't see this being the last event to suffer, and the current economic situatiuon is being further depressed by the new rotation system.

[Rallyper]

Yes I can't see this being the last event to suffer, and the current economic situatiuon is being further depressed by the new rotation system.

I think in a way the WRC has to start from zero again, maybe same time as they introduces new rules. But for sure something must be done to bring down costs even for the organisers.

Nothing wrong with the rallies themselves. They are most of them highly liked among the drivers, for example Sweden and Norway.

Btw no problems for NORF? Maybe the WRC seasong can be driven completely just in Finland?? :D

[bassist]

With all the talk of the past 48 hours and the WAG pulling the plug on wales Rally GB. as at 21.16. -16/04/09 The Official WRC site on the net mentions nothing about the news! Perhaps we should all read between the lines-WRC is Dead! Lets hope it takes us back to the good old days of a Rally UK wide with 40 plus stages, remote servicing running in the dark etcetc! Happy days! Sarnau!

[AndyRAC]

With all the talk of the past 48 hours and the WAG pulling the plug on wales Rally GB. as at 21.16. -16/04/09 The Official WRC site on the net mentions nothing about the news! Perhaps we should all read between the lines-WRC is Dead! Lets hope it takes us back to the good old days of a Rally UK wide with 40 plus stages, remote servicing running in the dark etcetc! Happy days! Sarnau!

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I though all the Welsh were desperate to keep the event in Wales, that's the impression I get.
Anyway, as you stated, nothing on the official WRC website, but that's not a surprise.
In a way, I hope they do pull the plug; the organisers (IMS) never listen to the feedback from fans and continue to charge ridiculous prices for tickets - what do they expect when the numbers keep dropping?
In the old days, say up until 1997-1999 how much did towns like Chester, Cheltenham bid to host it? I can't believe it was anything like the current £2m that IMS now want. Basically, it's just greed, I mean even a company was set up to run it (IMS), was never like this years ago.
I know because of the FiA regs, there are limitations on routes, but hopefully these will be relaxed, so we might get a varied route again. And it doesn't have to be in Wales......

[Simmi]

I would sooner see the event die for one, maybe even two years so that someone can come in and put it in the middle of the UK and run it properly. Last year I paid the earth to watch cancelled stages.

Autosport said Newcastle was interested in being a host city. The IRC should get themselves into gear to sort out and epic rally to combine Killer Keilder with the Scottish stages for an end of season type thing.

Get rid of current organisers also.

[BDunnell]

I would sooner see the event die for one, maybe even two years so that someone can come in and put it in the middle of the UK and run it properly. Last year I paid the earth to watch cancelled stages.

Autosport said Newcastle was interested in being a host city. The IRC should get themselves into gear to sort out and epic rally to combine Killer Keilder with the Scottish stages for an end of season type thing.

Get rid of current organisers also.

If it went away totally for a couple of years, I'd be willing to bet it would never come back.

[RS]

Couldn't the Welsh 'Safety Camera Partnership' sponsor the event, they usually do quite well out of it :rolleyes:

[ste898]

I would'nt loose any sleep over the loss of Rally GB/corner of wales as its just a money making machine now.

Last time I went was 2001 and I vowed I would never go back!!!!

[AndyRAC]

I would sooner see the event die for one, maybe even two years so that someone can come in and put it in the middle of the UK and run it properly. Last year I paid the earth to watch cancelled stages.

Autosport said Newcastle was interested in being a host city. The IRC should get themselves into gear to sort out and epic rally to combine Killer Keilder with the Scottish stages for an end of season type thing.

Get rid of current organisers also.

Agree about the current organisers - though I'm sure there are some people involved who work hard at putting it on. However, you don't have to be a genius to see the event went downhill when IMS were set up to run the event - it's now just a 'cash-cow'.
As for Newcastle - interesting - as regards Kielder/Scotland, it is already used in November for the Roger Albert Clark Rally - how would that work out?

[AndyRAC]

If it went away totally for a couple of years, I'd be willing to bet it would never come back.


I think you could be right. And all the great history of the event. Sad :(

As I was in Kielder today for the Pirelli Rally - it got me thinking, sorry :

A spectator day with stages round the country - with literally thousands turning out to watch.(You can't buy publicity like that)
Dedicated TV coverage on a major channel with even a live stage thrown in.
Regular updates on National Radio, and decent Newspaper coverage.

Now consider, all that has gone! How can any event/sport succeed when everything that was going for it has been thrown away. The people in charge of the WRC need shooting. How on earth has it been allowed to happen? It's almost unbelievable, and we wonder why it's on it's knees.......

[BDunnell]

I think you could be right. And all the great history of the event. Sad :(

I don't actually think it will come to that. I still (perhaps naively) believe that the FIA will see sense and create a strong, new WRC out of the current events and those that have migrated to the IRC, and that S2000 will offer the answer.



As I was in Kielder today for the Pirelli Rally - it got me thinking, sorry :

A spectator day with stages round the country - with literally thousands turning out to watch.(You can't buy publicity like that)
Dedicated TV coverage on a major channel with even a live stage thrown in.
Regular updates on National Radio, and decent Newspaper coverage.

Now consider, all that has gone! How can any event/sport succeed when everything that was going for it has been thrown away. The people in charge of the WRC need shooting. How on earth has it been allowed to happen? It's almost unbelievable, and we wonder why it's on it's knees.......

It is really, really sad, and I'm not sure a lot of people — those involved with the sport, and quite a lot of current enthusiasts — realise what has been lost. My interest in rallying now goes little further than watching old videos. The WRC, as it stands, doesn't appeal; nor does the British championship; and, while the Monte was undeniably interesting, the IRC strikes me as a non-event due to its lack of status. Sadly, neither am I turned on by modern-day historic rallying. I'm not generally an enthusiast of historic racing, either, bar the Goodwood Revival which transports one 'back in time' in a way no other such event can. Sorry, Roger Albert Clark Rally, but the modern sponsors' logos on the cars spoil it for me. But at least those memories of rallying days gone by remain strong, and I could go on all day here about them.