Official - Diffuser Appeal Denied

[jjanicke]

And I am arguing that the bodgy diffuser increases the intake of air, hence the greater velocity in the "tunnels" and increase in downforce.

If you are extracting the same amount of air, then the velocity in the tunnels is the same.

The only way to increase air intake is to drive faster.

This is a passive systems after all. There are no mechanical air extractors sucking air, ala late '70s Brabham fan cars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d7iR72UVh4

[Valve Bounce]

The only way to increase air intake is to drive faster.

This is a passive systems after all. There are no mechanical air extractors sucking air, ala late '70s Brabham fan cars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d7iR72UVh4

PLease, look at this from outside the box. The diffuser(s) has/have been increased to suck more air through. If you don't increase the air intake, you cannot increase the velocity of air through the tunnels, and cannot increase downforce.

[AndyL]

Thanks for posting that link to the results of the appeal decision, jjanicke.

There is a section in there that is pertinent to the discussion earlier in this thread, about why Red Bull and Renault had their enquiries about "similar" designs knocked back by the FIA:



a) Arguments of the parties
82. Renault alleges that the FIA has previously rendered opinions to it, stating that
designs similar to those used by the Contested Design Teams in the Contested
Design Concept were contrary to the TR.
83. Red Bull submits that it asked the FIA in January 2007 to clarify its position as
regards any discontinuity in the reference plane, and the response from the FIA
clearly stated that such a discontinuity would be illegal.
84. The FIA argues that in no previous statement did it deal with the Contested
Design Concept. The questions put to it in previous cases were different and
answered correctly and in a manner consistent with its present position.
b) Findings of the Court
85. The Court observes that opinions of the Technical Department, while
performing a vital role, are advisory in nature and are not Technical
Regulations. Teams are obliged to comply with the TR as written. It is for the
Stewards, and ultimately this Court, to offer binding interpretations of the TR.
Even if the Contested Decisions were inconsistent with any opinion of the FIA
Technical Department (which has not been established), this would not give
rise to the invalidity of the Contested Decisions. The Court therefore denies the
Sixth Plea.


It seems to me that what Red Bull asked about - discontinuities specifically within the reference plane - is not the same as what the diffuser 3 have done - gaps between the reference and step planes.
Renault did claim that their design was similar to the contested designs; the FIA argued (in para. 84) that it was not the same as the design concept of the diffuser 3. The court declined to find either way, saying that FIA technical department advice is only advisory in any case.

[wedge]

And I am arguing that the bodgy diffuser increases the intake of air, hence the greater velocity in the "tunnels" and increase in downforce.

If you are extracting the same amount of air, then the velocity in the tunnels is the same.

Don't you mean the flat-bottom? Ideally there should be greater difference in pressure from the flat bottom/diffuser

If air velocity increases in the tunnels then you risk creating too much drag or stalling the diffuser.

By looking at the Brawn diffuser they lengthened the central tunnel to cope with this.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2009/821/643.html

[Valve Bounce]

Look guys. I'm spent, totally on this discussion. I get the feeling that we are talking about different things at the same time, my head is spinning :crazy: and I think I'll give this a break. :(

However, it's been a stimulating discussion.

[veeten]

I just read the proceedings, and I particularly liked the 3rd part of their final decision...


3. Orders the Appellants to pay the costs of the present Appeals, in

accordance with Article 24 of the Rules of the International Court of Appeal.


It's like saying, "Shut it, get lost, and 'we do accept cash, cheques, and all major cerdit cards'." :p :

[F1boat]

IMO the FIA was pretty clear with their message "we don't like your whining".

[CNR]

Red Bull rule out using new diffuser for the next races
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/2354186/Red-Bull-rule-out-using-new-diffuser/



Chinese Grand Prix winners Red Bull have ruled out a major design change to their Formula One car before next month's showcase Monaco race. Adrian Newey, the team's chief technical officer, said on Wednesday there was no doubt the 'double-decker' rear diffuser used by championship-leading rivals Brawn GP would improve performance.
"It is worth doing for everyone on the grid," he said in a team preview of Monday's Bahrain Grand Prix after Germany's Sebastian Vettel led Australian Mark Webber to a breakthrough one-two victory for Red Bull in Shanghai on Monday.
"Our challenge is to adapt one to work on our car.