Ryan Canned

[Tazio]

Now following the announcement that McLaren would be hauled before the FIA to answer charges of bringing the sport into disrepute, McLaren has announced that Ryan has left the team.

:rotflmao:
“This afternoon McLaren and its former sporting director, Dave Ryan, have formally parted company,” a McLaren statement read.
:rotflmao:

“As a result, he is no longer an employee of any of the constituent companies of the McLaren Group.”

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45520&PO=45520

:rotflmao:

Thanks for the 35 years! Ba-bye!
:rotflmao:

[Tazio]

From The TimesApril 8, 2009

Matthew Syed, Sports Journalist of the Year
Lewis Hamilton’s reputation is in tatters and it will never be repaired. No matter how much he tries to heap the blame on to the shoulders of Dave Ryan, the sacked McLaren sporting director; no matter how much his father fumes about the injustice of it all; no matter how many World Championships he wins in what remains of his tainted career.

This, at bottom, is a question of morality and judgment, and Hamilton has shown that he is lacking — culpably so — in both departments. First he lied before the stewards in a quasi-judicial hearing in Melbourne. Then he compounded the deception ten-fold by repeating the lie four days later. If the first piece of moral handwringing may be understood, if not excused, as having occurred in the heat of the moment, the second provides conclusive proof that Hamilton is prepared to deceive in cold blood.

It hardly needs stating that, in leading the stewards on a merry dance, he was not only staking a claim to points to which he had no right, but he was also, by implication, calling Jarno Trulli a liar and a cheat. He was implying that Trulli’s claim that he had been allowed to overtake was a deception; that it was right and proper for Trulli to be handed a 25-second penalty, robbing him of points. In short, he was prepared to trash a fellow driver’s reputation and opening race in pursuit of a measly extra point in the drivers’ championship.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6054328.ece


Fool Mark it, nuncle:

Have more than thou showest,

Speak less than thou knowest,

Lend less than thou owest,

Ride more than thou goest,

Learn more than thou trowest,

Set less than thou throwest;

Leave thy drink and thy whore,

And keep in-a-door,

And thou shalt have more

Than two tens to a score.

KENT This is nothing, fool.

Fool Then 'tis like the breath of an unfee'd lawyer; you

gave me nothing for't. Can you make no use of

nothing, nuncle?

KING LEAR Why, no, boy; nothing can be made out of nothing.

King Lear Act 1 scene 4

[Tazio]

The role played by Lewis Hamilton's former mentor Ron Dennis in the Formula One lying scandal is set to be examined by the FIA

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1168372/Dennis-dock-McLaren-charged.html?ITO=1490

Sportsmail understands that Dennis, chairman of the McLaren Group and former team principal, is suspected of ordering Hamilton - possibly through former sporting director Dave Ryan, who was yesterday sacked - to mislead the stewards after the Australian Grand Prix on March 29 over how and why Toyota's Jarno Trulli passed Hamilton during the late safety-car period.
It is the first time in the controversy that Dennis has been directly linked with wrongdoing.
It had previously been thought he was entirely free of suspicion because he handed over responsibility for running the team to Martin Whitmarsh at the start of last month.
While neither the FIA nor McLaren were willing to comment last night, a well-placed paddock insider said: 'There was just over an hour between the end of the race and the time Hamilton and Ryan went before the stewards. There is a question over what Dennis said or did not say.'


Caesar:
"Et tu, Brute?"


Julius Caesar (III, i, 77)

[markabilly]

From The TimesApril 8, 2009

Matthew Syed, Sports Journalist of the Year
Lewis Hamilton’s reputation is in tatters and it will never be repaired. No matter how much he tries to heap the blame on to the shoulders of Dave Ryan, the sacked McLaren sporting director; no matter how much his father fumes about the injustice of it all; no matter how many World Championships he wins in what remains of his tainted career.

This, at bottom, is a question of morality and judgment, and Hamilton has shown that he is lacking — culpably so — in both departments. First he lied before the stewards in a quasi-judicial hearing in Melbourne. Then he compounded the deception ten-fold by repeating the lie four days later. If the first piece of moral handwringing may be understood, if not excused, as having occurred in the heat of the moment, the second provides conclusive proof that Hamilton is prepared to deceive in cold blood.

It hardly needs stating that, in leading the stewards on a merry dance, he was not only staking a claim to points to which he had no right, but he was also, by implication, calling Jarno Trulli a liar and a cheat. He was implying that Trulli’s claim that he had been allowed to overtake was a deception; that it was right and proper for Trulli to be handed a 25-second penalty, robbing him of points. In short, he was prepared to trash a fellow driver’s reputation and opening race in pursuit of a measly extra point in the drivers’ championship.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6054328.ece


King Lear Act 1 scene 4

Looks like me the TIMES and the Taz agree:


Why is the one person who was in the best position to know and tell the truth, playing the role of the victim and being treated like a victim?

The one person who all he had to say, “well, that is NOT exactly the way it happened” and spared the whole team (and Trulli as well as the rest of us??)

When he claims he was told to lie, hhe could have said, “well I just cannot……”
[

And who by being a rat and “ratting out“ his team, is NOW no different than the Spaniard, as those who called FA, “Freddie the rat"

Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
LH: OK.
LH: He's slowed right down in front of me.[/font][/color]
Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.
LH: I let him past already.


Instead we pick on the team and throw Ryan under the bus, when Ham is confronted with the absolute truth.

Ryan was in no position to have exact personal knowledge of whether Trulli actually passed when they had told Hamilton to let him pass, or after they said: “OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.”

Only Hamilton knew the exact answer to that one…


Instead the guy with 30 years of service, who is obviously on the age of retirement, has no doubt, now gotten a real sweet deal to go off and be the fall guy, full bebenfits and probably a nice little bonus,, err severance or whatever, to ensure his silence on what exactly went on when the he talked to the "MacRat"...
Well now who among mac fans are now willing to confer the title of "rat" on Hamilton that was previously held by FA?

"Anthony has brought Lewis up not to be like that and he is disappointed somebody has called him a liar when he isn't deliberately lying."
http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/74279

from Hamilton:

"As soon as I got out the car I had the television interviews at the back of the garage, and straight away I gave them a good account of what happened during the race," said Hamilton.

"Straight after that we were requested by the stewards, and while waiting for the stewards I was instructed and misled by my team manager to withhold information, and that is what I did."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202
There are many prosecutors who would say, "and upon that, I rest my case...."

But let us see here, if no press interveiw before he recieved his cover up instructions, then we might NEVER have known about what really happenned...........and Trulli would be still stuck in "no-where"

And I guess, it is NOT deliberately lying when told to lie deliberately by one of the team mechanics.............

Of course, everyone knows it is okay to perjure oneself when told to do so by your lawyers, but I did not know there was another exception for when your mechanic tells you to do so.... :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

I am not going to believe a word of this involvement by Ron Dennis until I read what ioan has to say.

[Ari]

Fall guy..... McLaren, again, read just like a Hollywood script.

[ozrevhead]

Fall guy..... McLaren, again, read just like a Hollywood script.
Agree Ari

anyone with one tenth of a brain can see hes been made a scapegoat for McLaren/Hamilton

[SGWilko]

Agree Ari

anyone with one tenth of a brain can see hes been made a scapegoat for McLaren/Hamilton

I have a full brain, but cannot be sure that he has been scapegoated. Now, if I were in a position to have been a fly on the wall at every step of the shenanigans, even if I were an amoeba, I'd be able to know what happened.

But none of us know the full story, and are therefore just saying whate we would like to have been the case.

Personally, I think Ron Dennis was driving the iceberg that holed the Titanic, but I wasn't there.........

[Sonic]

Can anyone say Scapegoat?

[Valve Bounce]

But none of us know the full story, and are therefore just saying whate we would like to have been the case.

.

Just ask ioan for the full details and unbiased viewpoint.

[SGWilko]

Just ask ioan for the full details and unbiased viewpoint.

Eeerrrrrr, no ta!

[I am evil Homer]

So if in my job at a bank I lose my bank money then cover it up in front of the regulator only for my deception to be found out, it's okay for me to keep my well-paid job?

No, didn't think so. It's not scapegoating - it's called being held accountable and Ryan has broken one of the fundamental FIA rules. The fact he's been in F1 so long only makes his judgement even more shocking.

I imagine he's also broken a clause in his employment contract.

[pino]

Just ask ioan for the full details and unbiased viewpoint.

Valve, I am tired of reading stupid and pointless comments by you, stop it right now !

[Sonic]

So if in my job at a bank I lose my bank money then cover it up in front of the regulator only for my deception to be found out, it's okay for me to keep my well-paid job?

No, didn't think so. It's not scapegoating - it's called being held accountable and Ryan has broken one of the fundamental FIA rules. The fact he's been in F1 so long only makes his judgement even more shocking.

I imagine he's also broken a clause in his employment contract.

I'm not suggesting that DR is not in the wrong because he clearly is.

My point was that it is a fault with the entire management structure at McLaren and they are trying to wriggle their way out of a huge fine/ban etc. by pointing the finger of blame at one man.

Whilst Ryan has got what he deserves I don't think McLaren/Hamilton should escape punishment because they are seen to be getting rid of a 'bad egg'.

[ioan]

Agree Ari

anyone with one tenth of a brain can see hes been made a scapegoat for McLaren/Hamilton

Don't worry I'm sure the FIA will invite him too at the WMSC meeting, and he might not side with McLaren anymore.

[ioan]

I'm not suggesting that DR is not in the wrong because he clearly is.

My point was that it is a fault with the entire management structure at McLaren and they are trying to wriggle their way out of a huge fine/ban etc. by pointing the finger of blame at one man.

Whilst Ryan has got what he deserves I don't think McLaren/Hamilton should escape punishment because they are seen to be getting rid of a 'bad egg'.

:up:

[I am evil Homer]

If you have any evidence that Ryan was working under orders from someone else, please post it here as i've seen none. Otherwise that's pure speculation on your part without knowing any of what happened - presumably, actually, hopefully we will find out more after the meeting.

I don't think there's anything Mac can do to escape a fine and they should be fined heavily for it. But to suggest he's being scapegoated is just a wrong he took the decision and so ultimately it rests with him as senior management.

[Sonic]

If you have any evidence that Ryan was working under orders from someone else, please post it here as i've seen none. Otherwise that's pure speculation on your part without knowing any of what happened - presumably, actually, hopefully we will find out more after the meeting.

I don't think there's anything Mac can do to escape a fine and they should be fined heavily for it. But to suggest he's being scapegoated is just a wrong he took the decision and so ultimately it rests with him as senior management.

Whilst I have no proof in terms of documentation etc. It is a fact of any management structure (F1 or not) that there is communication between heads of each department (especially in a team as organised as McLaren). It is therefore IMO naive to think that others at McLaren did not know what was going on.

Yes that makes it speculation - but isn't that what a forum is for? To voice opinions?

[Sonic]

Another thought that occurs to me is this. Even if Dave Ryan acted alone in starting the lie, the subject must have come up at the post race debrief the team would have gone through. At this point McLaren should have gone straight to the FIA and held their hands up. Instead its been allowed to fester.

[Tazio]

Instead its been allowed to fester.

It's now a boil the size of K2 :mark:

Another thought that occurs to me is this. Even if Dave Ryan acted alone in starting the lie, the subject must have come up at the post race debrief the team would have gone through. At this point McLaren should have gone straight to the FIA and held their hands up. Instead its been allowed to fester.

I too wondered that. Most post-race debriefs I've been involved in lasted the best part of a day, with every issue being examined thoroughly.

It does raise the question as to what questions were asked in the debrief sessions after the original hearing and why written confirmation of the stewards confirmation of safety car protocol wasn't asked for.

[Valve Bounce]

Another thought that occurs to me is this. Even if Dave Ryan acted alone in starting the lie, the subject must have come up at the post race debrief the team would have gone through. At this point McLaren should have gone straight to the FIA and held their hands up. Instead its been allowed to fester.

I think this is where McLaren's defense starts to fall apart.

I can believe that the initial lie may have been cooked on the way to the original Stewards meeting, but McLaren had oodles of time to set the record straight.

[SGWilko]

I think this is where McLaren's defense starts to fall apart.

I can believe that the initial lie may have been cooked on the way to the original Stewards meeting, but McLaren had oodles of time to set the record straight.

WHo knows what they were playing at?

There's nowt as queer as folk you know.....