Time's Up for Latvala...

[J4MIE]

I've just seen that he has rolled out of the lead of Portugal, once again.

To be honest I am not at all surprised at this as it's what I was expecting after so many incidents previously.

I think he's had far too many second chances and he just isn't taking them. He's been dropped down to Stobart for a few events last year but I don't think this has had any affect at all. I think the only way he will realise that he is costing Ford the world championship, and as the second driver it is his job to score solid points consistently, which Sordo is doing much better at, is if he is dropped completely for at least a couple of rounds. Replace him with a proven finisher. Surely there are plenty of them at the moment who would grab the chance and deliver on results needed.

It's a real shame, because he is fast and great to watch, but he just tries far far too hard and doesn't seem to be listening! :(

[AndyRAC]

Tough one this - he has the pace, no question. The consistency is not happening however. He should concentrate on just finishing at a safe pace - even if he is in the lead, his job is to support Hirvonen. Surely the time has come to put him in the Stobart team?

[Lousada]

Who would have thought that after one third of the championship Matt Wilson would be ahead of Latvala :eek:

[J4MIE]

But he swapped with Duval before and on those events it was ok as far as I can remember. But he has come back and done the same thing again and again and again and again, it really is beyond a joke and has been for some time, everybody knows that it is going to happen on any event he goes to, don't they!

I don't see how he could get away with it again :confused:

[Woodeye]

I think that J-M´s time is full now as well. He had his chance, but it seems that he just can't keep the car on road. It's a shame.

[Lousada]

I don't see how he could get away with it again :confused:

Follow the money?? :confused:

[N.O.T]

well its a hard situation for both ford and latvala...Ford doesn;t have any worthy replacement and Latvala seems to have the speed but not the consistency to help the team....

[ShiftingGears]

It'd be disappointing if his career ended up as a case of unharnessed potential. Which is looking more likely.

[I am evil Homer]

WRC is full of drivers who never harnessed their potential - he'd just be adding to the list.

[MikeD]

Tough one this - he has the pace, no question.

I am not sure I agree. When he is fast, he crashes. When he doesn't crash, he's behind Hirvonen and Loeb.

This event is his 48th event in a WRC car, so i don't see why his crashing tendency will change.

I clearly think that Atkinson og PSolberg deserve a shot at Ford.

[ZequeArgentina]

The problem is Loeb, he is way faster than the rest, (in some rallies may be Hirvonen can much him).

Latvala, while in the road, is abel to much and sometimes even be faster than Sebastien.
So MW must be willing and waiting for Latvala to develop his ability to keep the car onthe road to have real possibility to beat Loeb.

I still think Latavala is champion material, but he is throwing itall away.

[Finni]

well its a hard situation for both ford and latvala...Ford doesn;t have any worthy replacement and Latvala seems to have the speed but not the consistency to help the team....

Grönholm, Solberg, Atkinson?

[Finni]

Jari-Matti is naturally somewhat crash prone. However in current situation where everyone is underlining not to crash psychological pressure is escalating situation and leading to more mistakes just like in Duval's case. J-M seems to be quite sensitive to that kind of pressure.

In finnish Mtv 3 Wilson said that they will probably do a few races and then think about it. In my view it would better to put J-M to the Stobart for the rest of the season and take someone like Grönholm to drive nro 1 car.

[I am evil Homer]

The thing about JML is he has the raw speed and you simply can't teach that. The consistency isn't there and it should be now given the number of WRC events he's started - but it should come.

The issue know is his mind....the pressure is on more and more and that won't help his head. But the potential is still there for sure question now is can he ever fulfil it or will Ford lose patience.

[big_sw2000]

The thing about JML is he has the raw speed and you simply can't teach that. The consistency isn't there and it should be now given the number of WRC events he's started - but it should come.

The issue know is his mind....the pressure is on more and more and that won't help his head. But the potential is still there for sure question now is can he ever fulfil it or will Ford lose patience.
Kind of reminds me of McRae

[JAM]

I think today is birthay for Latvala, 24 years... good birthay present he is having...

[DonJippo]

No changes to Ford team JML continues, says Malcolm Wilson.

[Psycho!]

I agree with you guys...He is very fast but his inconsistency makes him a "half" driver...It's actually a shame for him,especially today...I feel very sorry and I think that the whole story is about his confidence,his mind and his psychology....The speed is there but he can't take advantage of it,even with the changes he made with his co-driver.A return to Stobart would be good for him as a punishment and as a confidence building period too...

[BDunnell]

It's almost always worth giving a driver a chance in these circumstances. A lot of 'wild men' mature. Toivonen was a classic example of this.

[Fischer]

What are the odds of Gardemeister taking the place of Latvala?

[ste898]

Clueless Malcolm Wilson will probably still keep Latvala, hopefully the Ford management will step in and take control!!!!

[N.O.T]

Grönholm, Solberg, Atkinson?

Gronholm i think doesn't like the full time job of a rally driver anymore

Solberg indeed is a solution...but can the ford team afford him ??

Atkinson isn't faster than Latvala nor is more consistent

[MJW]

I honestly dont quite know what to say after seeing the footage on ewrc.cz of Jari Matti's crash. I am a 110% believer that JM is probably the fastest driver of a rally car. Seeing that crash tonight scared me...............

[Psycho!]

Indeed it was VERY frightening...If the stage was live during this, I would have gone mad for sure!!

[Englandsfahrer]

Kind of reminds me of McRae

Indeed. There's a difference though. McRae would either win or crash out. J.M Rollala either totals the car, or finishes down the order.

At this rate Henning, Galli, or even Malcom himself would be better at gathering pionts for the manu championship.



Gronholm i think doesn't like the full time job of a rally driver anymore

Solberg indeed is a solution...but can the ford team afford him ??

Atkinson isn't faster than Latvala nor is more consistent

Can't see why not. Even if they only provide him a free car, and promise to not give him any team orders, that's a lot cheaper than paying for everything himself, + he'll get a faster car. Win/Win situation.

Still, at the rate Latvala's crashing cars, it would be cheaper to pay Petter a decent salary...

[Honza H.]

Still, at the rate Latvala's crashing cars, it would be cheaper to pay Petter a decent salary...[/QUOTE]

Good point :) My personal tip is Bosse or Peter (and Duval wouldn´t be bad as well)

[Megablade]

Grönholm, Solberg, Atkinson?

PG Andersson!

[big_sw2000]

[quote="Englandsfahrer"]Indeed. There's a difference though. McRae would either win or crash out. J.M Rollala either totals the car, or finishes down the order. quote]
McRae in his early days was not the winner we know now

[big_sw2000]

Still a lucky boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ80TU7NmVQ

[Mirek]

My personal tip is Bosse or Peter (and Duval wouldn´t be bad as well)

Duval isn't faster (except tarmac), isn't more reliable and has no money, no co-driver and way too much self-confidence. Not a good deal in my point of view...

[ShiftingGears]

Gronholm i think doesn't like the full time job of a rally driver anymore

Solberg indeed is a solution...but can the ford team afford him ??

Atkinson isn't faster than Latvala nor is more consistent

Latvala only beat Atkinson by 8 points last year, in a car that was infinitely better than the Subaru. If Latvala was faster and more consistent, the results don't show it. Atkinson also beat Solberg last year...

[matSLO]

My opinion about JM is that he like many others "future champions" (Loix, Duval,...) was pushed too soon on WRC scene without achieving any great results on lower levels (finish champ., JWRC. PWRC...). He always has speed, but also crashes a lot. I believe only raw speed is not enough, they should learn him to be consistent in early years, they made big mistake to let him on such level without any restrictions in way of winning sth. (be finish (italian, BRC...) champion, get PWRC/JWRC title first) and only after achieving it he will get promotion. So basically he get this "reward" only on his speed ability but not on results. If I remember right he also had some crashes in his PWRC year. Also media (probably especially finish ones) "made him champion" too soon and he get this in his mind and now while he does not deliver what he was expected it frustrates him too much and only worsening his situation. So all in all Ford`s (or MW`s strategy) of building first star driver doesn`t working so good as they expected.
In comparison to Ford Citroen`s (or french if you like) strategy is quite different. They develop young drivers through results (he MUST achieve sth.) to be promoted. They give him full support, but without result there is no promotion (for example Loeb, Sordo, Ogier-they all won JWRC first). Even Colin McCrash gone to WRC level step by step (lotus sunbeam, vauxall nova cup, scottish champ., BRC...) despite his crashes. Although this strategy has it minuses too later...if you put one driver to be second driver too long (for. example Hirvonen, Sordo) and not allow him to slowly push on first driver they may "loose" some speed... But Loeb and many other all stars shows that such strategy is still better than Ford`s one...even Matt Wilson surprises me this year as he as almost as fast as Ogier, so he finally get some speed and with his consistency even he might be better 2nd driver than Jari Matti. I am sad to say that but it is like it is...

[L5->R5/CR]

I really like the idea of JML.

He is fast, raw, and out there. His driving is exciting and you never know what he is going to do. Is he going to be brilliantly fast? Is he going to crash? If is he really flying how long can he keep it in check before he just tosses it off of the side of the road?

With the WRC as boring as it has become JML gives me something to be interested in.

Although, the three races so far this year have been some of the more interesting and exciting rallies of the past 3-4 years...

[ste898]

My god surely Ford are not even thinking about Duval as he is probably as bad as JML but with a bad attitude as well!!!!

[Wim_Impreza]

I completely agree with matSLO.

I want Gardemeister in the seat of Latvala, Garde is one of the consistent drivers and he knows to finish a rally.

[Brother John]

Clueless Malcolm Wilson will probably still keep Latvala, hopefully the Ford management will step in and take control!!!!

Why must another driver taking the place of Latvala?
Many here say names of other drivers to replace J-ML, but I think the problem is Ford itself. They have not succeeded to build a car which is just as strong or better than a Citroën.
We know all that Loeb is fast and almost faultless with a Citroën, no one else had ever the possibility to grow together with the cars in a one team.
Citroën has the best rally cars and give it just to one, maybe two drivers.
We will never see Loeb with another car i think.
I´l say it again, Ford and M-sport have failed and never will obtain the level of Citroën in building a rally car. Don´t blame the drivers.

[ste898]

Why must another driver taking the place of Latvala?
Many here say names of other drivers to replace J-ML, but I think the problem is Ford itself. They have not succeeded to build a car which is just as strong or better than a Citroën.
We know all that Loeb is fast and almost faultless with a Citroën, no one else had ever the possibility to grow together with the cars in a one team.
Citroën has the best rally cars and give it just to one, maybe two drivers.
We will never see Loeb with another car i think.
I´l say it again, Ford and M-sport have failed and never will obtain the level of Citroën in building a rally car. Don´t blame the drivers.

What utter rubbish........so the Focus not being as good AS the C4 caused JML to drive too fast into a corner and roll down the mountain side get real??

[AndiG]

I think perhaps he would need a more experienced co driver who is able to calm him down and makes him listen to his pace notes. Because after JML interview I think there is also a communication problem if he says that he brakes when he sees that he has to brake not when the co driver tells him to brake???!!!

[Brother John]

What utter rubbish........so the Focus not being as good AS the C4 caused JML to drive too fast into a corner and roll down the mountain side get real??

The complete forum is full with rubbisch......so what? :dozey:
It does not concern here only about Latvala but about Ford.
The easiest way is always to give a driver the blame.
I say only that Citroën is the better team and car, the C4 remains, however, on the road and is faster.
Even i don´t like Citroën, it´s just a fact they are the only factory team at the moment.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Thoughts:

Comparing JM-L to Gigi Galli?

[ste898]

The complete forum is full with rubbisch......so what? :dozey:
It does not concern here only about Latvala but about Ford.
The easiest way is always to give a driver the blame.
I say only that Citroën is the better team and car, the C4 remains, however, on the road and is faster.
Even i don´t like Citroën, it´s just a fact they are the only factory team at the moment.


I don't disagree with you which is the better var, but how does that make JML crash more?

[Psycho!]

Thoughts:

Comparing JM-L to Gigi Galli?
I don't think Galli is better than JM.He had his chance and he didn't take advantage of it last year.Personally,I expected more from him....

[Ghostwalker]

I don't disagree with you which is the better var, but how does that make JML crash more?

well since the Focus is slower then the C4 and if JML wants to achieve the same times as Loeb, JML have to push harder on and sometimes over the limit and when you're on or over the limit your much more likely to crash since you take bigger risks.

While someone who is a very fast driver in a faster car can drive with sligthly larger margin and is therefore less likely to do a mistake.

[HaCo]

Even i don´t like Citroën, it´s just a fact they are the only factory team at the moment.
And how do you see that as a fact?

[OldF]

I must say I’m little surprised about the performance from JML looking it from a mental aspect. Timo Jouhki said in an interview that he’s also taking into account the mental side when he chooses drivers to support but it seems that tests or testers have failed with that with JML or then the tests aren’t so reliably.

IMO another problem JML has are the pace notes. It seems that he always mange to find some stones he don’t have in his pace notes. And as he said in the interview at wrc.com he wants to see the braking places and that IMO means that he don’t rely on the pace notes.

Here JML analyses his crashes.

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv3.fi%2Furheilu%2Fralli%2Fuut iset.shtml%2Farkistot%2Fralli%2F2009%2F04%2F851796&sl=fi&tl=en&history_state0=

….tip nakutellessa time…. = ….making the fastest times….
pätkä, erikoiskoe = SS
semmoinen = kind of
Portugal Latvala auto municipality…. = In Portugal the crew…..

[Lalo]

Jari-Matti has great skills behind the wheel. Sometimes he's even faster than Loeb, but he's less consistant (we have to face that he's got less experience that Sèb).

When I saw the footage of the accident, it really reminded me when Henri Toivonen passed away. God, it was scarry...

[N.O.T]

Mikko 4 seconds faster than this morning

[N.O.T]

26.8 the final difference after day 2...

[Finni]

Jari-Matti has great skills behind the wheel. Sometimes he's even faster than Loeb, but he's less consistant (we have to face that he's got less experience that Sèb).

Despite sweden 2008 J-M has never been faster than Seb in rally distance. Usually J-M does better times from better road position or when Loeb is driving strategically.

[big_sw2000]

I think perhaps he would need a more experienced co driver who is able to calm him down and makes him listen to his pace notes. Because after JML interview I think there is also a communication problem if he says that he brakes when he sees that he has to brake not when the co driver tells him to brake???!!!
Excellent, like bringing Nicky Grist in to calm down McRae.

[serial jeff]

I think Ford should give Chris or Petter a test in the Focus to see how they'd do. There's really little other choice for Ford, as I see it; JML crashes too much. PG Andersson, Gigi Galli, Henning and Matt Wilson just don't have the speed of Petter or Chris.

Of course, if they could convince Marcus to come out of retirement, that'd be their best chance. But from what I've heard from him, I don't think he's keen on signing up as a permanent driver.

[farquar wrc]

I think someone needs to look at JML's pacenotes,driver skill doesn't come into it,the boy is awesome,it looks to me that his notes are wrong,Portugal and Cyprus were almost the same mistakes,touching banks and throwing the car off line,and how many other silly mistakes has there been to with just to much entry speed,before we all jump on the bandwagen and wright Jari off,a change off co-driver has to be tried
PS,I nearly pi$$ed my self laughing when people suggested dropping Jari for the Australian wrecking machine Atkinson

[Psycho!]

I think someone needs to look at JML's pacenotes,driver skill doesn't come into it,the boy is awesome,it looks to me that his notes are wrong
Wilson said that Latvala had a "double caution" for this particular corner,where he had the horrifying accident...Also,JM told that he didn't break,despite that Miikka told so,because he wanted to see that he has to break....I can't understand what is going on with him,but I continue to support him as before :)

[jens]

Latvala has a lot of unlocked potential, he still might come (very) good. He is the youngest WRC winner of all times and the age of 24 is nothing in rallying terms. But I think it could be a good idea to give him a Stobart drive for the rest of the season.

Talking about replacements in the A-team Andersson, Atkinson or Gardemeister would all be great choices. It would be great to see them finally getting a proper chance in WRC in a top car, something they really haven't got yet.

[JFL]

Just twisting your words a little.: ;) Atkinson has suffered driving a uncompetetive car? What about his teammate?

[Mirek]

In the early 2007 there was a short movie on wrc.com about crashing in WRC where they counted crashing percentage (retirement at least for leg) for drivers in last maybe ten years. The most crashing one was Atkinson, second Duval. They had huge "advantage" over others.

I mention that just for those who think these two are more reliable drivers...

[zerodegreec]

Not unlike any other elite sporting event the mind is the hardest beast to tame. JM needs his team right now more than anything else. Lets face it, we all see his talent but his mind is getting in the way. He is young and needs to be molded and helped through this. He may not be the type of person that takes criticism or thinks he knows it all, but what he needs is a good role model to show him how to handle the pressure and unplug his brain and do what he is being paid for...Drive.


Fix his concentration and mould his dicision making and you will have a consistent top 2 driver. He is only 25.

[ShiftingGears]

Just twisting your words a little.: ;) Atkinson has suffered driving a uncompetetive car? What about his teammate?

If you mean Solberg, he hasn't always driven an uncompetitive car. The same can't be said for Atkinson.

[tmx]

PG Andersson, Gigi Galli, Henning just don't have the speed of Chris. On gravel surface I disagree.

[Helstar]

Gronholm i think doesn't like the full time job of a rally driver anymore
Solberg indeed is a solution...but can the ford team afford him ??
Atkinson isn't faster than Latvala nor is more consistent
For the first time ever I totally agree with you ^^


I don't think Galli is better than JM.He had his chance and he didn't take advantage of it last year.Personally,I expected more from him....
If you look better, Gigi didn't do worse to JML when you compare both on Stobart (no work car no tests etc.). He was also a little bit unlucky in some rallies with the car giving him problems or stones in the road :\


PG Andersson, Gigi Galli just don't have the speed of Chris.

lol you don't even know what means the word "speed" then


On gravel surface I disagree.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Anyway, keep JML. He's only 24 for God's sake. He can improve, remember Mikko in 2004 then :p ? And people winning their first WRC title over 30 ... ?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Garde Garde Garde!!!

Bye bye JML! :p

[Brother John]

[quote="Ghostwalker"]well since the Focus is slower then the C4 and if JML wants to achieve the same times as Loeb, JML have to push harder on and sometimes over the limit and when you're on or over the limit your much more likely to crash since you take bigger risks.quote]

Correctly, nevertheless someone who sees what the problem is of Ford.
Just take a look to the behaviour of C4 and of the focus on gravel, snow or asphalt. The Citroën reacted as go-cart where as Ford drivers must fight to keep the car on the good line.
Unfortunate that we no longer see Pentti on the forum, he could much better explain than I what there is wrong with the focus.
I hope that all goes well with Pentti and that we will see him again here on the forum.

[Buzz Lightyear]

If Latvala was a business, he would be bankrupt years ago.
Wilson cannot sack JML, he is paying for that seat.
Ford is a bad position. The market has been strangled by pay drivers.
Goods driver like PG, Aava, Meeke etc..are not allowed to develop.
Hence Ford has no option... only a paying driver!
Its a vicious circle.

[ste898]

Garde Garde Garde!!!

Bye bye JML! :p


Ford wants to go forward not back!!!

PG andersson would be good choice or Petter.

[m.lowe]

I forget which driver it was that was asked "what do you have to do to beat Loeb?"

I would of laughed if they had said drive a C4

[dukof]

I believe Latvala has a great future, due to his young age. He has time to mature, and he got the speed, which means he will get a new chance after every mistake. His personality is also very respectful, straight and open talker, nothing not to like about this guy. He got a competitive instinct so strong it just beats himself. But I think he is able to suddenly turn his bad luck into incredible performance, like the flip of a switch. There is just some mental barrier he does not have exactly control over, but when he figures this out it can be a true awakening. The difficult thing is to say when he will wake up..? but I'm sure he will. On top of that however, he also needs to alter his style, he still often has a far too wide line.

[Minke]

well since the Focus is slower then the C4

You have to give credit where credit is due. Loeb can out drive.

[Minke]

]In the early 2007 there was a short movie on wrc.com about crashing in WRC where they counted crashing percentage (retirement at least for leg) for drivers in last maybe ten years. The most crashing one was Atkinson, second Duval. They had huge "advantage" over others.

I mention that just for those who think these two are more reliable drivers...

I remember this and while Chris Atkinson was the number one for DNF's as a percentage of starts, they did go on to say thatCA has had very few starts at that time.

Would like to compare other drivers in say, their first 20 WRC starts and see how they stack up.

[RS]

well since the Focus is slower then the C4 and if JML wants to achieve the same times as Loeb, JML have to push harder on and sometimes over the limit and when you're on or over the limit your much more likely to crash since you take bigger risks.

That's not a good excuse, he needs to learn to drive to the limits of his car, which is probably more than Hirvonen achieves. There are probably a few drivers out there who could drive at Latvala's pace but crash 2 out of every 3 or 4 rallies.


Correctly, nevertheless someone who sees what the problem is of Ford.
Just take a look to the behaviour of C4 and of the focus on gravel, snow or asphalt. The Citroën reacted as go-cart where as Ford drivers must fight to keep the car on the good line.
Unfortunate that we no longer see Pentti on the forum, he could much better explain than I what there is wrong with the focus.
I hope that all goes well with Pentti and that we will see him again here on the forum.

You are right that the Focus and the C4 have a very different character. I really hate watching the Focus, probably the dullest world rally car of all time, but does that mean it's slower? Does anyone really believe that Mikko would be on Loeb's level were he in a C4, or that Loeb wouldn't still be ahead of Mikko in the Focus? The problem I have believing this is that Loeb has won on every imaginable surface so far this year, even Norway where one might have expected the Finns had a home advantage.

BTW, I am sure Pentti knows what he is talking about, but you also have to remember he is Finnish so might be inclined to blame the Focus too ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Wonder how PG would be in a Ford eh? :)

[MrJan]

Who suggested Atko???? Why replace JML with a driver who is slower and almost as unreliable? There's a proven driver from Finland who isn't doing much and still has some pace, got a few links with Ford too ;)

[J.Lindstroem]

Who suggested Atko???? Why replace JML with a driver who is slower and almost as unreliable? There's a proven driver from Finland who isn't doing much and still has some pace, got a few links with Ford too ;)

Gardemeister is indeed the best possible choice.

[AndyRAC]

From what I've heard, Latvala doesn't really listen to his pace-notes, he drives on sight. This is unbelievable - his people need to get him to listen to what the notes are describing - hence he arrives at a corner far too quickly and, yeah, CRASH!!
I know when he was with Pentti, he did have English pace notes, but when he moved back to Finland he used Finnish. Something is wrong, and for Jari-Matti's sake needs to be rectified quickly.

[Frozzy]

i dunno its kinda sad for Latvala because undoubtably he has the speed to win but as suggested maybe its for the best if he goes back to the stobart team with less pressure on him to win and get his head round consistency. and promote the fact that he is probably the best rising star in the WRC at the moment?

[Barreis]

Gardemeister is indeed the best possible choice.

If they want finisher yes, but if they want somebody who can beat Loeb P.Solberg is the only choice..

[Gard]

Really don't think Petter can/will leave his team at this point. Maybe if the sponsors could approve to put Mikkelsen or someone else in the Xsara.

[MJW]

Really don't think Petter can/will leave his team at this point. Maybe if the sponsors could approve to put Mikkelsen or someone else in the Xsara.
Whilst its no secret that Petter's intention is to get back to a factory team, I think there is too much investment, and staff involved in PSWRT to leave this year. Its not like Henning or any other pay driver jumping make, there are others involved in Petters team. What happens to them if Petter would to go to Ford for a few rounds. I think Petter will be in PSWRT at least until late 2009 season.

[Barreis]

How much they gave him? If he can pay only salaries (FX and Mills) from sponsorships he is good.. Where's car and other expences? But what's that with how much he lost replacing Subaru brand with Citroen. On the other hand there's podium finish. Also if he stayed with Subaru brand as a privateer few good drives from M.Ostberg in the similar car and P.Solberg brand has gone..

[Psycho!]

On GPWeek Wilson and Quensel talk about Jari-Matti...Wilson says what we already know,while Olivier says that he would like to see him in a Citroen!!!

Comment:No way,dear French...!!!!

[Helstar]

From what I've heard, Latvala doesn't really listen to his pace-notes, he drives on sight. This is unbelievable - his people need to get him to listen to what the notes are describing - hence he arrives at a corner far too quickly and, yeah, CRASH!!

Na ... I don't believe this. He has just described what happens. If a stage is ALL narrow, then he has the correct rhythm for the whole stage. But if there are fast sections followed by slow corners, he doesn't lift the throttle in time ^^ (do you remember in Sweden 2008 ? He hit some barriers at the end of a fast stage xD !).

He has asked his co-driver to shout at him to brake and slow down. Didn't work again...

[Ghostwalker]

On GPWeek Wilson and Quensel talk about Jari-Matti...Wilson says what we already know,while Olivier says that he would like to see him in a Citroen!!!

Comment:No way,dear French...!!!!

Well actually why not. perhaps a change of environment would do him good?
A totally different team and car?.

[MJW]

I would like to see J-M L in a C4, my guess that a small part of the problem is that he is 'overdriving' the Focus, a car that is in my opinion not as fast as a C4. There are some other fundamental problems in his notemaking, also his natural speed and mental block against braking. I do genuinely agree that he needs a change from M-Sport Ford, that relationship has reached its peak and I'm afraid its downhill now. And a talent like JML should not go to waste, give him a Citroen. Also maybe tempt Kaj out of retirement..........?

[urabus-denoS2000]

Citroen already have Rautencrash "modifying" their cars :D

I don't think they can manage to repair 2 cars every rally :D

[MJW]

What happens to Rautenbach after the car fire? I thought C4's were in short supply.

[jparker]

I would like to see J-M L in a C4, my guess that a small part of the problem is that he is 'overdriving' the Focus, a car that is in my opinion not as fast as a C4
I believe that too, most of the times crashes happen after JML is posting better times then Mikko.

[AlfaWRC]

I believe that too, most of the times crashes happen after JML is posting better times then Mikko.

JML was definitely over the limit at stage 4 in Portugal. We saw him descending a hill for almost one minute just a few kilometres before the crash...that was just incredible!

[RJL25]

it's a tough one for sure, I hear some people saying Atkinson deserves a go in Latvala's seat, and as an Aussie I can't help but agree! lol but in the fair dinkum department it wasn't all that long ago that Atko had the same reputation of crashing whenever he was going fast... Eventually however Chris got it together and last year consistantly outpaced Sohlberg which is why he is being considered a better prospect for Ford then Latvala, Jari-Matti could do the same, but on the other hand his time is definetly fast running out.

It's now or never for sure, if he doesn't turn it around then Atkinson or Sohlberg will take his drive next season, 100% for sure.

[René]

Who must be criticised??? Jari Matti or Malcom with his management and strategies of junk.....

To beat Citroën and Loeb it will be necessary and irrefutably much more that, on one hand, good cars and on the other hand, suspicious tactics imposed on pilots whose talent is tarnished by pitiable management.

let Jari-Matti learn quietly, time and experience will reveal all his talent.......

[gloomyDAY]

Time's up for Latvala? No, more like Malcolm.

Jari is doing his best to push an inferior car to the limit in order to be competitive. I love seeing that kind of spirit in motorsports! If anything Malcolm should find a way to make the Fords attain a better level of performance. I don't want to see another Mikko in the WRC just chugging along and being content with 2nd. JML is in it to win and good for him!

[Camelopard]

Time's up for Latvala? No, more like Malcolm.

Jari is doing his best to push an inferior car to the limit in order to be competitive..............

Maybe Ford needs a bail out from the UK Government like Citroen has got from the French government in order to make their cars competitive.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/europe/article5554586.ece

I'm sure some of those SIX BILLION EUROS will trickle down to the rally team! :p


P.S. this is the second time Citroen has had a major bailout, they went bankrupt in about 1974. Let them die I say, along with GM and Chrylser.


More likely Ford needs to find a Seb clone to solve their woes

[RS]

According to today's Autosport, Jari-Matti actually had a 'double caution' in his notes for the corner on which he went off, but the night before the rally decided to remove it. So it is not maybe overdriving, but stupid mistakes.

[Ghostwalker]

According to today's Autosport, Jari-Matti actually had a 'double caution' in his notes for the corner on which he went off, but the night before the rally decided to remove it. So it is not maybe overdriving, but stupid mistakes.

its probably a combination of several things (the car might be one of the things the note a second thing ...) but it definitely seems like he needs to improve the pace note part (note writing + co-driver/note thrust..).

[Karukera]

According to today's Autosport, Jari-Matti actually had a 'double caution' in his notes for the corner on which he went off, but the night before the rally decided to remove it. So it is not maybe overdriving, but stupid mistakes.

Indeed, it's the most plausible explanation.

On the TF1 TV footage, can't find it on their VOD page though, Daniel Elena tells Dani Sordo what happened to Latvala saying " remember the corner we were talking about at the recce and mentioning this morning before the start ? it's the one ... ". Dani Sordo is speechless of some sort and Elena says something like "yes it is".

[TMorel]

Now, I wonder if Elena and Sordos morning chat was an official one, a final inter-team briefing just to mention any last minute concerns, "iffy" corners whatever. I know it's something I've done in the past, I sat down with teamate, and his codriver sat with my driver for a quick "you've noticed that junction isn't as map" or "you spotted the mistake on the arrival time right" [nudges MW ;) ]

Maybe it's something that Ford need to look at, perhaps get Lehtinen to have a quick word with Jari-Matti and ask him if he's made any last minute changes to his notes *g*

[Englandsfahrer]

its probably a combination of several things (the car might be one of the things the note a second thing ...) but it definitely seems like he needs to improve the pace note part (note writing + co-driver/note thrust..).

No. The problem is that he's an idiot. It's really that simple.


*Rallying has blind corners, preventing him from seeing the braking points.
*He had a double caution
*He's admitted to not wanting to brake before he can see the braking distance even when his pacenotes states differently
*He knows he normally crashes because he doesn't care about his own notes.

Knowing there's a blind corner over a crest, into another corner that he can't see, with a double caution in his pacenotes, and he still goes in flat? AGAIN?

He's got talent, sure, but he's just too stuborn and stupid. He'll never get anywhere unless he finally comprehends the meaning of the words "blind corner", or "blind crest". If he doesn't want to trust his pacenotes, and doesn't want to brake before he can see the corner, he shouldn't be rallying. Instead he should be in rallycross or track racing.

No wait.. Au Rouge is a blind corner. It even killed Stephan Bellhof.



In the end, my respect goes to Miikka Anttila, possibly the bravest codriver in history. Even knowing Latvala doesn't listen to him, he gets in the car with him. I don't know if he doesn't care, or if he hopes to somehow get control over Latvala one day, but he's got to reach the end of the line one day. The big question is; Will he leave, or will Latvala get him killed first?

[Simmi]

Indeed, it's the most plausible explanation.

On the TF1 TV footage, can't find it on their VOD page though, Daniel Elena tells Dani Sordo what happened to Latvala saying " remember the corner we were talking about at the recce and mentioning this morning before the start ? it's the one ... ". Dani Sordo is speechless of some sort and Elena says something like "yes it is".

It said in Autosport yesterday that Latvala had the corner noted down as a double caution in the reece, but later that evening he changed the note.

So as a result he comes in a couple of gears too fast and nearly kills himself and his co-driver. If I was his co-driver I would be seriously pissed off in the way we saw Prevot get with Duval.

When other drivers have it marked out for caution and Latvala just blindly dives in there you have to ask fundamental questions.

The other thing I dont get about Latvala are his dodgy explanations of his incidents. There was Germany last year, and then this rally where he tries to make out he came in too hot and tried to slow himself down with the arm-co. But clearly he hits the rock face first pitching him straight over the barrier.

I just dont rate him.

[jparker]

No. The problem is that he's an idiot. It's really that simple.


*Rallying has blind corners, preventing him from seeing the braking points.
*He had a double caution
*He's admitted to not wanting to brake before he can see the braking distance even when his pacenotes states differently
*He knows he normally crashes because he doesn't care about his own notes.

Knowing there's a blind corner over a crest, into another corner that he can't see, with a double caution in his pacenotes, and he still goes in flat? AGAIN?


Yeah right, that much simple is not. He has to push over the limit to be on par with C4, and that's what he did. Yes, he knows what's in front of him, and still does it because he has no other choice.

[serial jeff]

Yeah right, that much simple is not. He has to push over the limit to be on par with C4, and that's what he did. Yes, he knows what's in front of him, and still does it because he has no other choice.

Don't blame the car. There is no excuse for pushing too hard every rally because it ends with crashes, as he has repeatedly shown throughout his career. For one thing, it isn't even his job to beat Seb, Mikko is supposed to do that. JML is supposed to consistently finish with good points to keep Ford in the manufacturer's championship.

I just calculated it and had JML finished in the spot behind Mikko in the rallies so far, Ford would be a lot closer to the manufacturer's championship with 53 points to Citroen's 62.

[jparker]

Don't blame the car. There is no excuse for pushing too hard every rally because it ends with crashes, as he has repeatedly shown throughout his career. For one thing, it isn't even his job to beat Seb, Mikko is supposed to do that. JML is supposed to consistently finish with good points to keep Ford in the manufacturer's championship.

I just calculated it and had JML finished in the spot behind Mikko in the rallies so far, Ford would be a lot closer to the manufacturer's championship with 53 points to Citroen's 62.

Sorry, but I don't think JML will do anything without Malcolm's approval, so don't blame the driver.

[serial jeff]

I don't get it, do you mean Malcolm is telling JML to drive dangerously fast?

[jparker]

I don't get it, do you mean Malcolm is telling JML to drive dangerously fast?
I know it sounds silly, but yes I do. I can't imagine JML driving the way he wants, not in a team like M-sport.
MW will not keep JML for a minute if he's crashing without pushing too hard. I think they are both aware of the risk they are taking.
Then again, that's my own opinion.

[Magnus]

I really beive englandsfahrer and setrial jeff is simplifing things a bit to much. Drivers like Bosse, Solberg, MacRae and many more have had periods during their carreer in which they have crashed a lot. There is a lot of psycological aspects to take into account aswell. Natrurally latvala knows exactly where the problem is, but at the same time they need to have some results. You will never be a top driver if you do not have your share of crashes. It could be as simpel as latvala not being able to have the car setup exactyly as he wants; there is from time to time difficult for a young secobnd driver to have his opinions brought forward. He will always be shaddowed by the more experienced personal in the team.
There is also the question of personal chemistry between co-driver and driver. We do not know anything about this.
To simply say that Latvala is going to fast, or should change his pace notes, is to make thing waaaaay to simple.

[JFL]

This reminds me of Petter Solberg's time in Subaru! Pushing over the limit to follow the the others. That often resultet in carfailure and off roads.. Pressure from the team to follow the others.. When that did'nt happen, it can also result in bad selfconfidense and even worse rallies to follow.. Look at Solberg now. No preassure, and just driving what the car, him an Phil can do together.
Hirvonen is lot better then JML of knowing both his and his car limitations, and as you can see, thats not enough.. sadly

[Englandsfahrer]

I really beive englandsfahrer and setrial jeff is simplifing things a bit to much. Drivers like Bosse, Solberg, MacRae and many more have had periods during their carreer in which they have crashed a lot. There is a lot of psycological aspects to take into account aswell.

Of course I simplify things a bit. This is a forum, and there's no way I can get all my thoughts across by writing. Still, that is the root off the problem.

Also, I'm aware others have crashed a lot. But if you look at the nature of the crashes, it was a lot of different things that caused them. Typical of colin was cutting corners too much, crashing out after being on the limit for several stages etc. Petter crashed a lot because he didn't speak english. He simply didn't understand what Phil was saying. Latvala is slightly different. He'll crash out in 6th where everyone else is in 4th, even when he's not pushing.



To simply say that Latvala is going to fast, or should change his pace notes, is to make thing waaaaay to simple.

I'm not saying he's not going to fast. Actually, most of the time, he drives well within his capabilities. I have seen him driving in real life, and it's artwork. The problem is when he wrecks the car because he doesn't do what his codriver tells him to, or doesn't trust the pacenotes he wrote.

What makes me annoyed with him is that he knows why he crashes, and doesn't do anything about it. All rally drivers crash. Even Loeb. But that doesn't justify crashing all the time. Just because you have too much pride, or are just too stubborn to start listening to your pacenotes. Too many of Latvala's accidents are because of this. Thankfully he looked a bit scared after this last crash. Maybe, just maybe, he can swallow his pride and trust his codriver on the next rally. Because the only thing stopping him from being really good is the fact that he's not doing that now.

[A.F.F.]

No. The problem is that he's an idiot. It's really that simple.


*Rallying has blind corners, preventing him from seeing the braking points.
*He had a double caution
*He's admitted to not wanting to brake before he can see the braking distance even when his pacenotes states differently
*He knows he normally crashes because he doesn't care about his own notes.

Knowing there's a blind corner over a crest, into another corner that he can't see, with a double caution in his pacenotes, and he still goes in flat? AGAIN?

He's got talent, sure, but he's just too stuborn and stupid. He'll never get anywhere unless he finally comprehends the meaning of the words "blind corner", or "blind crest". If he doesn't want to trust his pacenotes, and doesn't want to brake before he can see the corner, he shouldn't be rallying. Instead he should be in rallycross or track racing.

No wait.. Au Rouge is a blind corner. It even killed Stephan Bellhof.



In the end, my respect goes to Miikka Anttila, possibly the bravest codriver in history. Even knowing Latvala doesn't listen to him, he gets in the car with him. I don't know if he doesn't care, or if he hopes to somehow get control over Latvala one day, but he's got to reach the end of the line one day. The big question is; Will he leave, or will Latvala get him killed first?

Well here's a merry post :mark:

[A.F.F.]

Just because you have too much pride, or are just too stubborn to start listening to your pacenotes. Too many of Latvala's accidents are because of this. Thankfully he looked a bit scared after this last crash. Maybe, just maybe, he can swallow his pride and trust his codriver on the next rally. Because the only thing stopping him from being really good is the fact that he's not doing that now.

I'd like a second opinion.

This time from someone who actually knows Jari-Matti :)

[DonJippo]

Bringing this old one up again as I think last weekend showed us that time is not up for Jari-Matti.

[Bazza2541]

Bringing this old one up again as I think last weekend showed us that time is not up for Jari-Matti.

Until the next time.

[J4MIE]

I hope you're right Don, I really hope you're right :)

[Hartusvuori]

Considering "listening to pace notes", Miikka Anttila have definitely joined Mieskuoro Huutajat of WRC, as he says. If you compare his voice on their first WRC victory rally Sweden 2008 and now on Sardegna, the difference is loud and clear.

Sweden 2008 (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&page=1&featureid=247&desc=Latvala%27s%20lines%20on%20Stage%2016&rally_id=S&season=2008)
Sardegna 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpP5yIeDLww)

Hyvä hyvä - H.Y.V.Ä. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtpQI07MlP4)

[gloomyDAY]

Where are the critics?

Silence is golden.

[Xsara Fan]

It wasn`t the first 'unlucky time' for JML and not the first 'happy return'. The difference between 'pushing very hard' (like Loeb) and 'pushing too hard' (like JML) is more than one word ;)

[N.O.T]

A win in a rally like that doesn;t mean anything.....If Loeb crashes out on the next rally none is gong to blame him as a car destroyer....Latvala needs a few of such performance to gain the trust of Ford and the fans.

I still think that Latvala is the best choice ford has at the moment.

[Helstar]

Where are the critics?

Silence is golden.
They'll be back after the next roll/crash/whatever.

But for now we can be happy and they... silent ;)

[Donney]

I'm happy for Latvala and I hope this is the second of more to come.

[COD]

Considering "listening to pace notes", Miikka Anttila have definitely joined Mieskuoro Huutajat of WRC, as he says. If you compare his voice on their first WRC victory rally Sweden 2008 and now on Sardegna, the difference is loud and clear.

Sweden 2008 (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&page=1&featureid=247&desc=Latvala%27s%20lines%20on%20Stage%2016&rally_id=S&season=2008)
Sardegna 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpP5yIeDLww)

Hyvä hyvä - H.Y.V.Ä. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtpQI07MlP4)

I prefer the old style, but whatever works for Latvala....

[A.F.F.]

Maybe he has learnt something. Like not to push after one bad stage but to maintain good consistent pace.

Now, if he only remembers that.....

[noel157]

After his run of DNFs I was critical of Latvala and felt he needed rested (like Duval) until he got his head in shape. I'm glad he won at the weekend and I hope he can again (if only for a more exciting championship) but I don't think he's in the clear just yet. Perhaps when he has Loeb on his tail starting day 2 of an event and manages to finish fighting I may revise my opinion. He really didn't have any opposition in Sardinia due to poor tactics, punctures and penalties . Swallows and summers come to mind.

[serial jeff]

Impressive drive by JML! It's not often someone leads a rally all weekend. Hopefully he can do this under pressure too, when Seb/Mikko are a couple seconds in front or behind.

[pino]

Fantastic win for Matti, I hope this is only the beginning of many others ;)

[driveace]

A agree a well deserved result,I watched on stage 7 at the JUMP,even though Seb was higher from the ground !

[jonas_mcrae]

hope he wins NORF loeb shouldnt be allowed to take that one again...

[A.F.F.]

hope he wins NORF loeb shouldnt be allowed to take that one again...

I salute you :)

[Rallyper]

hope he wins NORF loeb shouldnt be allowed to take that one again...

This weekend JML won the historic Lahti Ralli. Although he drove a RWD it´s a good practice for NORF later this summer. I´ll be there and watch JML win. :p

[ste898]

This weekend JML won the historic Lahti Ralli. Although he drove a RWD it´s a good practice for NORF later this summer. I´ll be there and watch JML win. :p


Any photos of the car?

[OldF]

Any photos of the car?

At the bottom of the site (Nr 3).

http://reissumies.kuvat.fi/kuvat/ralli/2009/21.+Lahti+Historic+ja+Xerox/Ceremonial+start/

http://reissumies.kuvat.fi/kuvat/ralli/2009/21.+Lahti+Historic+ja+Xerox/

[JFL]

Any photos of the car?
http://www.norsk-rally.com/images/stories/Diverse/latvalalahti5.jpg

[ste898]

http://www.norsk-rally.com/images/stories/Diverse/latvalalahti5.jpg

Thanx for your help guys....

[Tom206wrc]

I knew JML wouldn't manage to get two best results in a row after Italy/Sardigna...I knew it :p :

[noel157]

I knew JML wouldn't manage to get two best results in a row after Italy/Sardigna...I knew it :p :

Think most of us knew that Tom. Ok, rally isn't over for him but the door is closing fast.

[Jake Stephens]

Im so happy this happened to Malcolm Wilson, he thinks the rules about road position are a good thing, backfired on him now though, Hirvonen has a bad road position now for day 2.

[Bazza2541]

Was it ever going to be any different?

[ste898]

Im so happy this happened to Malcolm Wilson, he thinks the rules about road position are a good thing, backfired on him now though, Hirvonen has a bad road position now for day 2.

Where did you think up that pile of s***e?

[RS]

Where did you think up that pile of s***e?

Wilson has gone on record as saying he supports the current running order rules, but he does have some strange opinions...

[Jake Stephens]

Where did you think up that pile of s***e?

Excuse me?

[jonkka]

Wilson has gone on record as saying he supports the current running order rules, but he does have some strange opinions...

There really are only two bad alternatives to choose from and as to which is the lesser of these two evils is pure semantics.

[RS]

There really are only two bad alternatives to choose from and as to which is the lesser of these two evils is pure semantics.

Championship order first day and then top 15 reversed was better. The worst thing for me at the moment is we don't get a clear picture of the top guys performance at all other than on repeated stages, and results of day one and two mean little. As somebody said, two days tactics and one days rallying.

Or is there a third option? Can't the event organisers be forced to run a recently retired or unemployed star in a WRC as zero car? Could be offerred as part of a package to event sponsors.

[Mauri A]

Or is there a third option? Can't the event organisers be forced to run a recently retired or unemployed star in a WRC as zero car? Could be offerred as part of a package to event sponsors.

Good idea, but make it five so those unemployed could have their own competition and show who´s still the best. I´ll bet that for the last stage there would not be anyone left!

[N.O.T]

Or is there a third option? Can't the event organisers be forced to run a recently retired or unemployed star in a WRC as zero car? Could be offerred as part of a package to event sponsors.

i don;t think this is a realistic option....who will provide the wrcs/maintain/service of those drivers? how will you persuade them to go at full speed in order to have the same lines as the true competitiors ?

[driveace]

Are we all still giving Latvala his P45.Or will we wait till tomorrow ,and the rally finish,to see how the Finnish IS

[Woodeye]

You guys are sad. When he crashes, you start to put Petter immediately to replace him. But when he wins, you suddenly are all sugar and honey. The guy is now 3rd in the rally with one crash. And there are still someone behind him, like Petter for example.

[N.O.T]

You guys are sad. When he crashes, you start to put Petter immediately to replace him.

its called human nature....

[Bazza2541]

For my money, hes done. To be in a team you have to be a team player. Mikko done the job under Marcus, Jari should be doing no less. Everyone has to pay their dues.

[tmx]

There should be a thread like this created for every single driver in the WRC. That way when a driver crashes, people can go there to bash the driver.

Time's up for Loeb.

[ShiftingGears]

Latvala crashing wouldn't be a concern if he didn't do it so damn often.

[A.F.F.]

I knew JML wouldn't manage to get two best results in a row after Italy/Sardigna...I knew it :p :

Do you also know when to wipe out that stupid and biased grin from your face ??? :dozey:

That is of course if you consider third as a good result.

[Psycho!]

Do you also know when to wipe wipe out that stupid and biased grin from your face ??? :dozey:

That is of course if you consider third as a good result.
Noooo dear!!!Manufacturer-wise he is second!!Practically the second in a row 1-2 for Ford!!!Gongrats!!Keep like that!!! ;)

[Fang]

The only thing I can say in defence of Latvala is I think Sordo is just as worthy of critisism.

Seriously, why should WRC fans have to be subjected to substandard factory drivers in an age of a 2 manufacturer dominated comp.

Are there really only 2 drivers worthy of no 1 status and a shot at the title??

IMO there are plenty of drivers on the market who could have outperformed these clowns and made this years title far more interesting.

WRC is a joke.

[N.O.T]

IMO there are plenty of drivers on the market who could have outperformed these clowns and made this years title far more interesting.


Like ??

[J4MIE]

Have to say when he went off if he has gone 50cm further he would not have got out of there. But the speed he was going at up to that point, sadly it seemed just a question of when would it happen.

He needs to do a whole event without making a mistake, which hopefully he can then start to do more consistently.

[Barreis]

Guys who're paying their seats shouldn't be in works teams.. It's not right. He had to be fired from Ford but then somebody show up and payed that boycie can drive to the rest of the season. But now Mr Wilson sr can show his emotions after his outings (from road)..

[Buzz Lightyear]

How long has Latvala been on the go now? 6/7 years driving WRC cars?

Wilson forgive him, but only after Sordo, Loeb, Novikov, Henning, Petter all had their problems and/or went out.

One minute MW is saying it the work mistake ever, then when he scraps a 3rd through others misfortune, he is redeemed. What ballocks.

The FACT is the JML is PAYING for the seat, and Ford would have to PAY for Petter to drive the car. Petter would be an very obvious choice if they want somebody to bring point home on a regular basis, but its not going to happen, purely becuase of money. I sorta getting tired of MW trying to be a drivers physcartrist, rather than just hiring and firing them if they dont perform.

JML is vfast, but he is a bombscare.

[DonJippo]

One minute MW is saying it the work mistake ever, then when he scraps a 3rd through others misfortune, he is redeemed. What ballocks.

Funny how it's always JML's mistake but others misfortune... :rolleyes:

[Woodeye]

One minute MW is saying it the work mistake ever, then when he scraps a 3rd through others misfortune, he is redeemed. What ballocks.

If the guy is 3rd anyway, who gives a crap? Really? Petter is never going to drive Ford in the official team ever again, that's just a fact.

[Barreis]

Yeah, clean road (after leading drivers swep away all the trash) and You're leadin' at the board.. I understand Finns but there's no champ at the moment. P. Solberg is having them for a breakfast.. Never for Latvala. :)

[A.F.F.]

Well, comparing to the other paying drivers, Latvala is a proven winner despite his mistakes. Also, age is still on his side.

[Bazza2541]

I understand Finns but there's no champ at the moment. P. Solberg is having them for a breakfast.. Never for Latvala. :)

You must be watching a different WRC than me.

[Buzz Lightyear]

If the guy is 3rd anyway, who gives a crap? Really? Petter is never going to drive Ford in the official team ever again, that's just a fact.

Well then... if grown men want to hold gudges, while Citroen run off with the both championship, so be it.

[Barreis]

You must be watching a different WRC than me.

I don't know what championship You're watchin'.. I see Loeb five times champ and another possible.. :)

[DonJippo]

I don't know what championship You're watchin'.. I see Loeb five times champ and another possible.. :)

You know...that does not really matter because the next champ after the great French is going to be... a Finn :p

[janvanvurpa]

If the guy is 3rd anyway, who gives a crap? Really? Petter is never going to drive Ford in the official team ever again, that's just a fact.

Why? Was he particularly naughty?

[Gard]

If the guy is 3rd anyway, who gives a crap? Really? Petter is never going to drive Ford in the official team ever again, that's just a fact.

You are probably right. even if MW and Petter has chaked hands and get along fine. something tell me that those two in the same team, could be difficult. But both are professionals, so you never know.

[A.F.F.]

Petter will get a seat from an official team... when new manufacturers come along. But like Woodeye said, a seat from a current teams might be difficult. What do you think folks, did his behaviour at Subaru ruin his reputation as a teamplayer ??? I think it did for some part.

[Barreis]

You know...that does not really matter because the next champ after the great French is going to be... a Finn :p

Why not.. :)

[Helstar]

Well, Ford might be happy to have again a battle ... for now ... after asphalt events, there won't be happiness anymore :\

But I agree WRC is a joke, I'm really tired to see only 4 manu cars (3 allowed to win ^^) :|

[urabus-denoS2000]

I'm really sorry to say this Helstar,but there will be only 1 more asphalt event...

[Barreis]

I really hope that this one tarmac event will be enough to destroy ford boys.. :)

[Helstar]

I'm really sorry to say this Helstar,but there will be only 1 more asphalt event...
One is already enough ! ^^

[Karukera]

Originally Posted by DonJippo
You know...that does not really matter because the next champ after the great French is going to be... a Finn.... (Barreis : Why not.. :) )



Indeed, why not ? and it should be about time !
The no Finn champion gap is bigger than ever, since 2002 ? that's a century ago for the greatest nation of this sport (Pilots wise).

Otherwise it will soon sound like an old cliché... :s tare:

[Finni]

To tell the truth Latvala has not get any better during his time in official team. Actually he is no more as fast as he was at the start of 2008. And reliability is as bad as it was.

Latvala and Hirvonen will not achieve Grönholm's level. Ford should look at Solberg now.

[Karukera]

To tell the truth Latvala has not get any better during his time in official team. Actually he is no more as fast as he was at the start of 2008. And reliability is as bad as it was.

Latvala and Hirvonen will not achieve Grönholm's level. Ford should look at Solberg now.

That's a bold pessimistic statement which will make you eat your hat someday. Or as a Finn, i guess it's something you wanted to hear. :)

Grönholm was an awful rally cars eraser for years.
When Peugeot picked him up, a mass of people said the Lion would never win again with him, bla bla, etc...
Latvala has what it takes plus he's young.
Sure, he needs time, a lotta time but his quest is still on the way by being in a top team and it will last as long as his performances are slightly sparkling over his fabulous crashes.
Mark my words. Wishful thinking, that is.

[Finni]

That's a bold pessimistic statement which will make you eat your hat someday. Or as a Finn, i guess it's something you wanted to hear. :)

Grönholm was an awful rally cars eraser for years.
When Peugeot picked him up, a mass of people said the Lion would never win again with him, bla bla, etc...
Latvala has what it takes plus he's young.
Sure, he needs time, a lotta time but his quest is still on the way by being in a top team and it will last as long as his performances are slightly sparkling over his fabulous crashes.
Mark my words. Wishful thinking, that is.

The situation was very different. In early times Grönholm had only one or two showcases per year from privateer basis. In those rallies he had to prove himself with inferios car and without much testing. Latvala on the contrary has third full wrc year going on.

Latvala is young but he has remarkable experience already. It's not age but experience that counts. There is still much work to do if J-M is gonna get up to Mikko's level. And from Mikko's level there is still few steps to Marcus level.

[Barreis]

Latvala is paying driver in works team and I'll NEVER be for him.. It's not fair.. :)

[OldF]

Latvala is paying driver in works team and I'll NEVER be for him.. It's not fair.. :)

And of course you have a reliably source for this information?

Even if it would be true, he’s not the first one.

[gloomyDAY]

Is JML really a pay driver?

[serial jeff]

I'm pretty sure JML is safe on the Ford team, if only because I can't think of any driver who could replace him. Aside from Petter and Marcus anyway, and I suspect neither of them are going to join Ford again. At least, not this season.

If they find some young ace who's never driven in the WRC before, they'd surely test him out on Munchi's before the factory team.

[Barreis]

Is JML really a pay driver?

Not really.. His father is resolving this kind of problems.. So he actually doesn't pay for drive.. xd

[gloomyDAY]

Not really.. His father is resolving this kind of problems.. So he actually doesn't pay for drive.. xd :D Not that it matters to me, but was just curious.

Let the kid blossom. Talent can take time to develop.
I've been critical of JML, but I don't want his head on a platter.

[janvanvurpa]

Petter will get a seat from an official team... when new manufacturers come along. But like Woodeye said, a seat from a current teams might be difficult. What do you think folks, did his behaviour at Subaru ruin his reputation as a teamplayer ??? I think it did for some part.

His whining and complaints to the public while accepting the money from Subaru certainly didn't appear very wise in an era when there are so few paying drivers slots, that's for sure.


And with so many rich but medium speed drivers willing to shovel millions into the only 2 official tems via the Pay-t-drive M2 teams, and nobody embarrassed at the level that passes for VM, why would anybody pay much for Petter?

He's not really so fast that he's attractive at any price.
And since WRC is all about image, who will pay if he complains so much and he can't win consistantly---and makes the Team look bad?

[DonJippo]

Not really.. His father is resolving this kind of problems..

You should check your information sources because that one is total BS.

[Zeakiwi]

Who is carrying out the test driving for M-Sport these days ?
Who would drive the car if JML did a 'Sainz /Loeb'' and fell off his mountain bike ?

[N.O.T]

I think that kresta is part of the M-sport as a test driver.....at least he was a few years back

[Bazza2541]

I'm pretty sure JML is safe on the Ford team, if only because I can't think of any driver who could replace him. Aside from Petter and Marcus anyway, and I suspect neither of them are going to join Ford again. At least, not this season.

If they find some young ace who's never driven in the WRC before, they'd surely test him out on Munchi's before the factory team.

There isacertain Irish driverdoing pretty well in the IRC who could probably be tempted.

[DonJippo]

Who is carrying out the test driving for M-Sport these days ?

Mostly Mikko and Jari-Matti, no test drivers anymore as testing is limited so it's better to give all possible time for team's drivers.

[JFL]

huh?

[efe-e]

I totally fed up with this guy. Send him and bring Petter Solberg to 2nd driver.

[Larry_Japan]

Markko Martin has been the most recent non-competitive Ford test driver. And I imagine JML will face demotion to Stobart for at least NORF... no idea who would replace him. Petter would be extraordinary.

[Larry_Japan]

two words... MARCUS GRONHOLM

[koko0703]

I think Finland will be make-or-break rally for Latvala. I would say exluding mechanical problem with his car, a podium finish should be a must for JML in Finland. If he fails to bring his car home in Finland, I think Ford will replace JML with Duval for the remaining three rallies.

[Barreis]

Duval for tarmac.. :)

[Mirek]

Duval? You mean that guy who crashed his car in the very first corner of Ypres Rally two weeks a go and that guy who is one of the most-often crashers in the world?

[soperman]

JML has got to go hasn't he?

I think he's terrific to watch but he's screwing things for Ford.

Wilson should offer Kris Meeke a whole wodge for next year before Peugeot / Citroen offer him a water tight deal!

[DonJippo]

Markko Martin has been the most recent non-competitive Ford test driver. And I imagine JML will face demotion to Stobart for at least NORF... no idea who would replace him. Petter would be extraordinary.

No changes for NORF, JML will continue as factory driver.

[Helstar]

Damn now I start to be very worried... it's "acceptable" when you crash in the middle of a long SS of the second or whatever day, in deep fight for the top3 positions, but heck... in the last SSS when you have plenty of time ahead and you only have to cruise to the end ... this is very very bad. He has serious concentration problems IMHO

[Tom206wrc]

Yep...can't believe Latvala's attitude :s :s

[ste898]

If Malcolm Wilson does'nt sack Latvala now then he is a bigger idiot than latvala himself.
That was just total stypidness today by JML and he should go straight away

[Barreis]

But somebody PAID.. That's why he can not be sacked.. (And Mr Wilson loves his money)

[Langdale Forest]

I belive that Latvala is almost putting theese stupid accidents on, remember when he crashed in Germany 2006 on the first stage and he set a record breaking number of rolls in Portugal this year, and if that was not enough he throws it into the wall at the end of a super special!

He needs replacing with Petter Solberg.

[havk]

accident looks strange wasn't it due to problem with the car?

[Langdale Forest]

He ran into an oil drum!


What will he crash into in Finland?????

[Psycho!]

He ran into an oil drum!


What will he crash into in Finland?????
I imagine him on a high speed corner to carry more speed.Then rolls and on the trees....Finland is the best place for Jari's mistakes!!!! :mad:

[bluuford]

I totally fed up with this guy. Send him and bring Petter Solberg to 2nd driver.

For me it seems that between Malcolm and Petter, there is very thick ice that cannot be destroyed. There is even bigger possibility that Martin takes second place in Ford than Solberg.
Damn I put 1 EUR for Jari-Matti that he wins 2009 championship. The odds were 1:75 :-) Not very good investment :-P

[COD]

What an idiot. That is not anything any professional WRC-driver should do. I can see why they let him drive Finland, but if hey keep him after that then it must because of what Jouhki pays Ford

[Langdale Forest]

I imagine him on a high speed corner to carry more speed.Then rolls and on the trees....Finland is the best place for Jari's mistakes!!!! :mad:

I think that he will reverse into Mikko's car in the service park, or loose controll in a time controll. :uhoh:

[jonkka]

What an idiot.

My sentiments exactly. Kick JML out now, Henning Slowberg has done better job so far this season than this --mywordsfailme--.

[OldF]

IMO JML can cope with pressure but he has problem with his concentration. Maybe it will take a year or two before he’s mature enough. I must say that for me JML’s crash took away a part of Mikko’s win.

Are the drivers on top level nowadays too young? As has been seen with Novikov and Ogier (except the last rallies) has crashed a lot also.

[RobertS]

http://matezsoltee.fw.hu/latvala_drama/

[Psycho!]

I must say that for me JML’s crash took away a part of Mikko’s win.


A part???He destroyed everything!!! :mad:

[JFL]

My sentiments exactly. Kick JML out now, Henning Slowberg has done better job so far this season than this --mywordsfailme--.

lol... Slowberg had 2 stagewins today.. ;)

[OldF]

A part???He destroyed everything!!! :mad:

No, not everything. For the team and him selves yes but not for me. A win is still a win.

[jonkka]

lol... Slowberg had 2 stagewins today.. ;)

Yeah - hire him instead of this accident-prone elephant in a porcelain shop.

[jonkka]

Never ever let Latvala near another rally car ever. You simply don't lose 2nd in a spectator stage.

[A.F.F.]

VOI VITTU !!!!!!!

Let's talk about Jari-Matti a little bit. Yes, he is a pure talent. Yes, he is fast as hell when he has a good day. Yes, his way of driving appeal to fans. Yes, he is young and still got mileage in front of him. Yes, he is a Finn.

But yes, he can make it very very very VERY hard to stand behind him and back him up and support him when he continues to **** things up like that. :mark: Jari-Matti just has to change his attitude towards this sport and his profession way more humble because this just isn't going to work. He isn't that big of a talent that he is priceless. I AM SO DISAPPOINTED and ashamed. Unbelievable. Just ****ing unbelivable.

Now Malcom has invested so much on Latvala they just can't sack him but he has got to do something. Put him on the bench or make him wash Stobard's tyres in next rally or something... Today he failed his team-mate, his team-boss, his team and his fans. Unfortunately it is a habit novadays.

Please, go back to school Jari-Matti and come back when you have learnt something.

[MJW]

Today was a stupid thing. In normal work the guy would have been sacked, BUT there are two things that intrigue me about JML's relationship with MSport, a) the more I think about it he (or Juohki) is obviously paying for that drive, and b) Malcolm must be scared to sack him, just in case he ends up in C4 and is SO much faster than anyone. Malcolm would look a bigger fool them. I have said it before the WRC exists to top up the Wilson's piggy bank, I dont think Malcolm cares about winning...............

[Wim_Impreza]

Please set Toni Gardemeister for the other rallies this season in the second factory BP Ford.

[A.F.F.]

The thing is that Latvala has been in Wilson academy for years. Malcom see the talent in him but can't get it out. I think he refuse to let anybody else harvest the ripe grain.

It just can be too long and rocky road for Malcom....

[Barreis]

Malcolm can see THE MONEY.. XD Don't be too enthusiastic.. :) It's normal that mistakes happen..

[A.F.F.]

Are the drivers on top level nowadays too young? As has been seen with Novikov and Ogier (except the last rallies) has crashed a lot also.

That is exactly what I have thought. In the past drivers were more mature before entering to top level of rallying.

Today it seem that you're too old as over 25 :eek:

[JAM]

I saw this video a couple of times, and from de in-car camera i can't see a big mistake from JMLatvala. I see more faster a failure form the car than from Latvala.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbGR2dsyakQ

[JAM]

Well, Latvala himself says that touched inside the corner on the barrel...

[Buzz Lightyear]

Now Malcom has invested so much on Latvala they just can't sack him but he has got to do something.

You what... Malcolm invested in JML?? Yes, time, but while taking €10m off his managment over the years.

I mentioned it before, maybe its MW managment style, and the fact the JML its still paying to drive a Ford. Why not pay the fella a wage, and give him some self-worth. Put your money where you mouth is, and just hire him like anyother profession, instead of bleeding Finland dry.

If MW is TOTALLY SERIOUS about winning he would put JML in the Stobart team for the reast of the year, and pay Petter £100K a rally to drive in his place. Simple.

[Camelopard]

As I said in the Poland thread, is JML a paid or paying driver? Some of the Finnish forum members must know for sure, if he is a 'paying' driver, where does his benefactor get his money from?

[N.O.T]

I saw this video a couple of times, and from de in-car camera i can't see a big mistake from JMLatvala. I see more faster a failure form the car than from Latvala.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbGR2dsyakQ

my god....i just saw the video....wilson waiting with the champagne in his hand is just priceless :D :D :D :D

[janvanvurpa]

That is exactly what I have thought. In the past drivers were more mature before entering to top level of rallying.

Today it seem that you're too old as over 25 :eek:
If we look at the sport over the decades then it was always much later that guys got into VM.
It was same in moto-cross. When I was young I had a chance to talk with the VM elit--Hallman, Åberg, Kring, Jonsson, Hansen, Mikkola Heikki, DeCoster and Bickers---and asked them about the age thing because in the US everybody would say if you're not a full time professional by 19 then you're already a "has been". All of them said don't worry, it takes 10 years to gather the experience and the mental toughness, so get serious first after you're 25-26. Then you have a max of about 10 years.

I was very puzzled by the rather recent trend of very very young drivers almost directly into the top of VM.

It's marketing. The target market is 14-24 You-tube generation. Got to have boys that aren't too old looking.

It was once an man's sport.
Oi oi oi.....

[Langdale Forest]

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=5447&desc=Ford%20team%20boss%20throws%20Latvala%20a%20l ifeline

If he makes a mistake this time he probably will not get another chance.

[MJW]

Having viewed the video of the crash, immediate post crash response and interview from Malcolm stating that 'at this momemt in time Jari Matti will drive a BP Ford in Finland' I just think the reason for this is that the entries have closed and only one of teh 3 elements, car, driver and co-driver can be changed. Also the rally after Finland is Australia, and Atkinson is waiting.......
Chris' manager is Paul Turner, same manager as Markko Martin. By my guessing I think we could see Atko in JML's seat in Australia, maybe a tarmac driver in Spain, and who knows in GB?
Unless JML performs exceptionally well on NORF, and that means 2nd to Mikko without a scratch on the car, I think its over for him. And that will be a great shame, as I beleive in him still. I also think he was in the wrong team, Prodrive would have been better than MSport in their development of a driver.

[jens]

I think that he will reverse into Mikko's car in the service park, or loose controll in a time controll. :uhoh:

LOL!

Anyway, in current quite weak competition consistency is probably more important than anything and hence endless mistakes are unacceptable. Heck, even 'consistent' Wilson is losing to JML only by 6 points! That said, due to his youth JML can't be completely written off, so it may be wise to send him to Stobart for maturing.

[DonJippo]

As I said in the Poland thread, is JML a paid or paying driver? Some of the Finnish forum members must know for sure, if he is a 'paying' driver, where does his benefactor get his money from?

That's something I've wondering too, so many seems to know JML's seat is bought with big sum of euros but I can't figure out from where they could get that kind of money in Finland?

[COD]

That's something I've wondering too, so many seems to know JML's seat is bought with big sum of euros but I can't figure out from where they could get that kind of money in Finland?

Have you checked how much Jouhki alone makes/year + what his investments are worth. Sieltä niitä senttejä tulee...

[ShiftingGears]

Yep, times up. Needs to go back to Stobart while a driver more capable of finishing rallies is put into the Ford seat.

[JAM]

my god....i just saw the video....wilson waiting with the champagne in his hand is just priceless :D :D :D :D

No no, priceless is his face :D

[MrJan]

Yep, times up. Needs to go back to Stobart while a driver more capable of finishing rallies is put into the Ford seat.

Who though? There aren't that many drivers out there at the minute that are quick and manage to get the car to the end.

[jens]

Who though? There aren't that many drivers out there at the minute that are quick and manage to get the car to the end.

Gardemeister or Andersson would be a perfect choice.

[Xsara Fan]

Who though? There aren't that many drivers out there at the minute that are quick and manage to get the car to the end.

Some years ago I wouldn`t said this but in 2009 the answer is... Matt Wilson! :)

[DonJippo]

Have you checked how much Jouhki alone makes/year + what his investments are worth. Sieltä niitä senttejä tulee...

Yes I have, have you? People should not believe all the rumors from Esson baari....

[Buzz Lightyear]

Gardemeister or Andersson would be a perfect choice.

or Meeke.. oh sorry, silly me, he is not Scandinavian

[cali]

or Meeke.. oh sorry, silly me, he is not Scandinavian
Meeke is a little bit accident prone as well, but he is very fast IMHO.

I somehow like the idea of Andersson driving for Ford :)

[J4MIE]

Meeke will not have a drive for Ford as long as Wilson is making the choices.... according to what I have heard :(

[MJW]

Meeke will not have a drive for Ford as long as Wilson is making the choices.... according to what I have heard :(
Malcolm has always had those he doesnt want to see in Ford cars, going back to the Gwyndaf days, when he chose Stephen Finlay as his team mate in te hMichelin Pilot Escort Cosworth. Also Kris is an ex-employee of MSport as as CAD engineer.

[Priorat]

Being too young is not the problem if they have the talent.
What they miss is the experience of fighting for a championship.
Many drivers arrive to the WRC without having won or even fight for any lower championship. That is what could give them the balance between speed and consistency.
Perhaps JM should do a season fighting for the title in IRC and if suceeds come back to WRC.

[Barreis]

Malcolm has always had those he doesnt want to see in Ford cars, going back to the Gwyndaf days, when he chose Stephen Finlay as his team mate in te hMichelin Pilot Escort Cosworth. Also Kris is an ex-employee of MSport as as CAD engineer.

That was the DAYS!!! 1993. RAC, Malcolm in Escort from his own workshop and Gwyndaf in group N car (school bus driver xd).. :)

[Lousada]

If I was Malcolm Wilson I'd fire the weakest link of the team: Malcolm Wilson.

[MJW]

That was the DAYS!!! 1993. RAC, Malcolm in Escort from his own workshop and Gwyndaf in group N car (school bus driver xd).. :) Yes Malcolm didnt want Gwyndaf in the Group A example!!!!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Meeke will not have a drive for Ford as long as Wilson is making the choices.... according to what I have heard :(

Well..... I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think the problem is the management and the decision of selection of drivers thereafter.

So Solberg will never drive a Ford, even though it would be for the better of Ford Word Rally Team to secure the Manufactureres Title.

And now Meeke will never drive a Ford, for a UK team, with UK sponsors, and the fastest driver in UK

Oh yes, Colin McRae was the other one that would never drive a Ford again.

I can see the common the denominator here... and its not the drivers.

[Allyc85]

Just got back from Glastobury, not knowing anything about the rally and im gob smacked that once again Latvala has cocked up AGAIN!!

[Barreis]

Yes Malcolm didnt want Gwyndaf in the Group A example!!!!

Didn't care about that (Shall red Gwyndaf escort).. I saw that coverage so many times that remember words about second Wilson's (Michelin pilot) car: THE CAR IS NOW EX.. xd That was time when I loved rally so much.. Now I love it 'cos guy who started without money is five times champ in the raw.. Thanks GOD!!! That's positive about this sport!! :)

[AndyRAC]

Just got back from Glastobury, not knowing anything about the rally and im gob smacked that once again Latvala has cocked up AGAIN!!

Well what was it like, especially The Boss??

[Gard]

If MW wants top points, he have to get Bosse or Petter. If he axcept higher risk, my tip is PG or Mikkelsen. Henning may also be an option, if he gets more testing.

[noel157]

Meeke will not have a drive for Ford as long as Wilson is making the choices.... according to what I have heard :(

Jamie, although I think Meeke's rallying future is secure for the next couple of seasons what's the story regarding Ford and Wilson?

[A.F.F.]

If MW wants top points, he have to get Bosse or Petter.

With all due respect but when do you guys believe that it's not the point of Malcom wanting to have Marcus but Marcus not wanting to come back.

Interesting quick interview of Risto Mannisenmäki who spoke in behalf of Matti Rantanen. I think they have a seat in Ford in plans... Latvala's seat. :)