Time's Up for Latvala... [Archive] - Page 2

Gard

30th June 2009, 11:46

With all due respect but when do you guys believe that it's not the point of Malcom wanting to have Marcus but Marcus not wanting to come back.

Interesting quick interview of Risto Mannisenmäki who spoke in behalf of Matti Rantanen. I think they have a seat in Ford in plans... Latvala's seat. :)

No one has said so(at least not me) I was reffering to the only two that CAN take point away from Citroen M1. And don't fool yourself AF, It's all about the money, even for Bosse.

A.F.F.

30th June 2009, 14:53

And don't fool yourself AF, It's all about the money, even for Bosse.

For part of the calendar, yes, I agree.

Rallyper

30th June 2009, 15:32

Yes, JML had done some bad things among all the latest was the absolute worst one. BUT still he´s the current only one who is capable to drive faster than Loeb (except of course Mikko) in NORF.

There´s one doubt and that´s of course if he can manage to the end of the rally, but you have to belive he´d learned to be focused all the way by now.

So yes, MW is doing the only thing he can do, and that´s letting JML stay in Ford WRC team.

But intersting would be PG in a Stobart... :p :

Fide

30th June 2009, 16:06

Barreis

30th June 2009, 17:50

According this article (sorry it is in Spanish)

http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/rally-ford-pretende-dani-sordo/dasmotral/20090630dasdaimot_6/Tes

Ford is in conversations with Sordo for next year and Wilson will try with Gronholm for some rallies this year (after Finland where JML has been confirmed).

This's something like a GIVEEEEE MEEEE ALLLL YOUUUU GOTTTTT from current driver (JML) or drive for free (Malcolm W.: hahahhahaahahahaha).. XD

zerodegreec

1st July 2009, 05:37

I cant see Petter driving for MW... I think it would last 1/2 a rally and either Petter would tell the press that MW is a moron and or MW would pull the plug. I cant see those two personalities working together (especially since Petter has started his own team)

I like JML and enjoy watching him throw the car around, the truth is that it appears that he has to push to his limit far more than Sordo, Miko and of course Loeb. JML is good...But does not seem to be able to keep the pace AND keep get the car back to service.

I dont think Henning has the talent to drive as a #2 with BP Ford. (dont get me wrong, Henning is by far my favorite driver, I love his attitude)

Fact is that Ford is destined to play second fiddle for at least the next few years regardless if Ford signs Sordo. Citroen has been doing a great job of securing the future tallent with the Jr team. Unless Ford takes a page from the Citroen book, they will struggle for the foreseeable futrue.

tmx

1st July 2009, 07:30

Not too surprising, Hirvonen did the same thing in Killeri when he drove for Subaru, he didn't win any rallies that year. Then Subaru dropped him, they may have regretted it later.

I just love seeing Malcom getting all pissed everytime Latvala crashes.

COD

1st July 2009, 09:48

Interesting quick interview of Risto Mannisenmäki who spoke in behalf of Matti Rantanen. I think they have a seat in Ford in plans... Latvala's seat. :)

Well, with all due respect I hardly see Ford (or anyone else for that matter) hiring a driver who only has experience from his home round of WRC.

Even Ketomaa has more chances if he does well in the Subaru, he at least did PRWC last year

Zeakiwi

1st July 2009, 10:00

What driver talent searches are being conducted in the UAE. Surely there is an Abu Dhabi taxi driver quicker than the current 3rd team car A D driver and nominate him for the point scoring.
The paint and panel people at M-Sport must love JML, surely with all the overtime they need to put in to straighten his cars, they can now afford to send their children to better schools.

A.F.F.

1st July 2009, 10:17

Well, with all due respect I hardly see Ford (or anyone else for that matter) hiring a driver who only has experience from his home round of WRC.

Even Ketomaa has more chances if he does well in the Subaru, he at least did PRWC last year

Yes, I know. I said they have Ford seat in their eyes, not the other way around. :)

But, Rantanen driving for Munchi must be some sort of reward from last and also some sort of audition for the future don't you think?

vino_93

1st July 2009, 11:28

A.F.F., what about Mattias Therman ? I don't know this driver :confused:

Rallyper

1st July 2009, 12:17

I don´t think JML needs to be worried about his future in Ford. As long as he´s doing fast times and keeps Loeb and Sordo behind (which he is well capable of if his mind don´t play him down) he will still be a works Ford driver.

He just needs longer time to mature.

And if you guys were in MW clothes you´d never let him go toany other team...

Gard

1st July 2009, 12:26

I don´t think JML needs to be worried about his future in Ford. As long as he´s doing fast times and keeps Loeb and Sordo behind (which he is well capable of if his mind don´t play him down) he will still be a works Ford driver.

He just needs longer time to mature.

And if you guys were in MW clothes you´d never let him go toany other team...

think we all egree on that. As long as Stobart and Munchi exists, there is no problem

A.F.F.

1st July 2009, 13:21

A.F.F., what about Mattias Therman ? I don't know this driver :confused:

Me neither. In fact, I've never heard of him. Zes from NORF-thread wrote this....

Mattias Therman is

Another rich kid from Finland. His family used to own finnish brewery Hartwall before selling it to Scottish&Newcastle few years ago.

jonkka

1st July 2009, 14:56

I don´t think JML needs to be worried about his future in Ford. As long as he´s doing fast times and keeps Loeb and Sordo behind (which he is well capable of if his mind don´t play him down) he will still be a works Ford driver.

I don't think zero points scored by a driver who was initially faster than Citroens is better alternative or worth more than points from fourth (behind Seb, Mikko and Dani) by driver not capable of beating those three but at least coming home every time. At the moment, Henning has scored more points both to himself and to his team than JML this season.

And if you guys were in MW clothes you´d never let him go toany other team...

This is true.

Rallyper

1st July 2009, 17:33

[quote="jonkka"]I don't think zero points scored by a driver who was initially faster than Citroens is better alternative or worth more than points from fourth (behind Seb, Mikko and Dani) by driver not capable of beating those three but at least coming home every time. At the moment, Henning has scored more points both to himself and to his team than JML this season.

But that´s the way it has been. That´s a big difference. We can´t speculate ever so much about the future of JML, because we don´t know anything about it. One thing we know, he´s a fast guy when he stays on the road.

So no one knows when JML becomes a winner. That can even be from now and on.... :cool:

BTW I really longing for NORF!! :) :)

A.F.F.

1st July 2009, 18:35

I thought Latvala already is a winner. A proven one, hence there's only three other drivers currently driving who have tasted victory champagne.

Barreis

1st July 2009, 18:46

I thought Latvala already is a winner. A proven one, hence there's only three other drivers currently driving who have tasted victory champagne.

I agree.. From 15 rallies he will win one (maybe)..

Rallyper

1st July 2009, 19:50

I thought Latvala already is a winner. A proven one, hence there's only three other drivers currently driving who have tasted victory champagne.

Yeah, for sure he has won two times but a winner to me must be more consistent. That´s what I meant.

A.F.F.

1st July 2009, 19:53

I agree.. From 15 rallies he will win one (maybe)..

Well, it might take even more than 15 rallyes. First task to convince Malcom that he can even drive 15 rallyes, second task is to do that damn job he was suppose to and then maybe, he'll have a permission to drive for a win.

Sulland

1st July 2009, 22:42

Planning for the future I would have called Mikkelsen if I were Mr Wilson....

vino_93

2nd July 2009, 00:12

Me neither. In fact, I've never heard of him. Zes from NORF-thread wrote this....

Mattias Therman is

Thank you.
I'm disappointed. I expect a young and talented driver, but we have a rich driver ... :(

Torsen

2nd July 2009, 02:12

if i was ford, i'd be interested in petter if i wanted to win the works

Buzz Lightyear

2nd July 2009, 09:06

Planning for the future I would have called Mikkelsen if I were Mr Wilson....

based on what selection criteria? he is norwegian?

JFL

2nd July 2009, 09:19

based on what selection criteria? he is norwegian?
yeah! Just that!! :D

Barreis

2nd July 2009, 09:36

He's good.. :)

Rallyper

2nd July 2009, 15:31

if i was ford, i'd be interested in petter if i wanted to win the works

It´s an avesome situation being a worksdriver as JML. But also it´s hard to stay there. The pressure increases and you must deliver, that´s true.

But as some guys on this forum mentioned it also needs money to be where JML is today. And of course you should be fast. Look at young Novikov. Fast but never a whole rally. But he too will mature and will become WC one day.

So now when JML not delivered in Poland everyone has their own favourite homeland drivers they think should replace JML. So did I too (PG)

I think that´s one of the reasons we even have this forum about JML´s future. However a replacement is never gonna happen after Poland because now we will see a JML just doing what he should and we are gonna see him as world champion in just a couple of years.

MJW

2nd July 2009, 15:40

My predictions is that if JML 'performs to Malcolm's satisfaction in NORF' he will stay, but I have a feeling that Atko could find his way into a Ford, BP, Stobart or Munchis car in / from Australia.

Allyc85

2nd July 2009, 17:07

Atko, hes got a reputation for crashing so would be a poor replacement IMO.

MJW

2nd July 2009, 17:10

Atko, hes got a reputation for crashing so would be a poor replacement IMO.
But Chris crashes evil handling Subaru's not a Focus, its just that I have a feeling that CA will be back soon, Oz time.

Camelopard

2nd July 2009, 17:16

But Chris crashes evil handling Subaru's not a Focus, its just that I have a feeling that CA will be back soon, Oz time.

I very much hope so, but some one has to pay for it, Ford in Australia is not in good shape and I wouldn't think that they would pay for it. How much is required, 300,000 Euros for 1 event?

Integrale

2nd July 2009, 18:11

But Chris crashes evil handling Subaru's not a Focus, its just that I have a feeling that CA will be back soon, Oz time.
Easy to say Atkinson doesn't crash Focuses, he hasn't driven them yet.

C4 on the contrary.....

serial jeff

2nd July 2009, 18:27

Yeah he dented that C4 pretty well, but overall his performance on Rally Ireland was impressive- especially if you notice his improvement over the weekend. It showed how little practise he had with the C4 before the rally yet still kept good pace.

The stage times are listed here http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=405&season=2009&rally_id=IE&category=&stage=13

Notice that his times during Day 1 were fairly mediocre. But by the end of the rally he was getting really quick and setting times that were just a few seconds off the leader (Loeb).

bluuford

2nd July 2009, 19:00

I very much hope so, but some one has to pay for it, Ford in Australia is not in good shape and I wouldn't think that they would pay for it. How much is required, 300,000 Euros for 1 event?
Ford is usually much cheaper. European rounds are less than 200 000 Eur as far as I have heard from different sources.

FLO

2nd July 2009, 19:43

Pictures with all cars started in poland http://gahuflo.blogspot.com/

gloomyDAY

2nd July 2009, 22:23

Pictures with all cars started in poland http://gahuflo.blogspot.com/ :)

This doesn't look like Rally Poland.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TVTahWDxA64/SYmxOZo-bUI/AAAAAAAAAEE/Sjpv4CkhA-M/s1600/10.jpg

ShiftingGears

3rd July 2009, 03:18

Atko, hes got a reputation for crashing so would be a poor replacement IMO.

Have you noticed how little he's crashed since he's had Prevot as a co-driver?

He also beat Solberg last year.

Buzz Lightyear

3rd July 2009, 08:49

Have you noticed how little he's crashed since he's had Prevot as a co-driver?

He also beat Solberg last year. He hasn't crashed much this year to be fair.

AndyRAC

3rd July 2009, 09:34

He hasn't crashed much this year to be fair.

He'd have job crashing this year.......he's only done Ireland - but still took a Telegraph pole down...!!

tmx

3rd July 2009, 10:46

Psycho!

3rd July 2009, 11:27

To make it short, he was quicker than Conrad driving C4 for an entire year.
Even the s2000 are close to Conrad...I think you are joking...

COD

3rd July 2009, 11:50

But Chris crashes evil handling Subaru's not a Focus,

As well as evil handling Citroens :laugh: Remember Ireland?

Buzz Lightyear

3rd July 2009, 12:14

He'd have job crashing this year.......he's only done Ireland - but still took a Telegraph pole down...!!

sometimes I have problems conveying my sarcasm....

must work on that!

Barreis

3rd July 2009, 13:08

Be sincere.. It's healthy.. :) But also You must be stupid or very rich to pay 180 000 euros for one long weekend plus some little testing.. Sponsors should pay that and I don't see them much on private entries..

Kaps

3rd July 2009, 14:04

Even the s2000 are close to Conrad...I think you are joking...

Speaking of Conrad, a little OT, but really didn't want to open new thread just for this...

So, does anyone know is his co-driver Daniel Barrit or Barritt?
Double T or not, 'cos I keep seeing both versions over and over again.

Thanks & sorry for the slight OT!

Doon

3rd July 2009, 18:19

I think its Daniel Barritt

Conrad is sh*t though. Everyone slated Warmbold for always finishing around the bad end of the top 10, but that was in the good old days with way more teams and top drivers....

....he should put his rallying money into something useful, like making his homeland as good as it was in the 60's/70's and chucking bob out!

OldF

3rd July 2009, 20:19

Maybe MW has a difficult decision to make. The drivers have been at their best at about 28 years of age and JML has 4 years to that. JML is fast, that’s no question of that.

Lets say that MW sacks JML and some other new team decide to hire (2011 and beyond if and when there are more manufacturers in WRC) him and he’s by then mature to be fast and consistent. If this happens MW would probably have to eat some unpleasant “food” or if he’s done the right decision he get more money from the Ford company and can carry on his hobbies (what ever they are).

Rallyper

3rd July 2009, 20:25

Doon

3rd July 2009, 23:10

you are right! there are only 2 guys who can beat Loeb, Hirvonen and Latvavla no matter what tem they are in! MW wont send them down the road, i mean who else can he get to do the job?

.....dont say Solberg, i love him but he's past his best. The 'Bosse' wont rally, so nobody really!

N.O.T

3rd July 2009, 23:15

Barreis

3rd July 2009, 23:53

In straight faight without offroad accidents who was winner? Who won Finland 2008? Guy who started without money.. That's fair.. :)

Camelopard

4th July 2009, 02:10

noel157

5th July 2009, 23:08

It ain't going to happen, apparently his old man is very very cozy with 'bob'.

Exactly, how do think he got to where he is without fellow bedfellow "Bob".

Daniel

5th July 2009, 23:38

Hard work and elbow grease? Don't mention Billys ill gotten money though, people object to morals being brought onto the forum and they'd hate to have 1 less also ran in an expensive car too.....

tmx

6th July 2009, 04:14

.....dont say Solberg, i love him but he's past his best. The 'Bosse' wont rally, so nobody really!
Any teams, why Hirvonen and Latvala drive the old Xsara for a while while Solberg drive Abu Dhabi.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Psycho!

10th July 2009, 15:53

According to Malcolm Wilson Latvala will be in Ford and during next year...!Source:crash.net

koko0703

10th July 2009, 16:10

According to Malcolm Wilson Latvala will be in Ford and during next year...!Source:crash.net

I understand Malcom doesn't want to let go his investment and potential danger that easily. So if JML is to stay under Malcom, the question would be "Which Ford?"

Wim_Impreza

10th July 2009, 19:29

According to Malcolm Wilson Latvala will be in Ford and during next year...!Source:crash.net

Crash, that is exactly what Latvala can do as no other driver.

Barreis

10th July 2009, 20:15

Master Blaster.. Xd

OldF

10th July 2009, 21:22

Barreis

10th July 2009, 22:25

It's not that I don't like Latvala, just don't like paying drivers.. Never saw Colin in tears after off.. Don't call people with this name: creeps.. It's not good for forum.. :)

tmx

10th July 2009, 22:54

I was not on this forum when Colin was driving but I’m just wondering if someone was bashing him as hard as JML.

Not just when he was driving, but when he already retired as well. But are always those negative sorts on any forums. There are those who pretend to be a fan of certain drivers for a moment when he is doing well and then bash him when he isn't. As I have said we need a bashing forum section with a thread for every single drivers so people can bash each of them when they want to.

Helstar

11th July 2009, 00:58

I was not on this forum when Colin was driving but I’m just wondering if someone was bashing him as hard as JML. He (Colin) also crashed from secure leading and it was because he always wanted to give it all or nothing. I’m not defending JML because he’s made many silly/amateur mistakes. On this forum are also some creeps that don’t seem to like JML and enjoy bashing him because he/they don’t have any top drivers.
It's hard to reply to this. I don't bash JML (well, not until the very last error) and Colin is my n.1 of all time if you ask me, I loved his style and anyway he was Colin "McCrash" eheh ... so you see, he had an hard time even himself.

But you know, the times have changed. There was another kind of 'rally' once upon a time ^^; longest rallies and lots of stages, more drivers, more cars, more competition ... plus you could wait many years until a driver could deliver strong results. Colin was an hero of that era, I think.

JML is the reflection of the current one: shortest rallies, poor competition, no space for huge errors ... that's why a stupid crash in the last SSS when nobody is pressuring you is not really accepted... IMHO

Camelopard

11th July 2009, 05:28

It's not that I don't like Latvala, just don't like paying drivers..

Yet again where do you have the proof that JML is a paying driver?

Buzz Lightyear

11th July 2009, 09:35

Yet again where do you have the proof that JML is a paying driver?

Ask Malcolm

Rallyper

11th July 2009, 09:52

One just shouldn´t comment any of the crap that´s been said about JML. It just looks like the guys doesn´t have so much to do but to diss JML. Please go to another forum.

If it´s not JML´s fault it´s the WRC???? - so listen to yourselves guys. It´s not worthy a serious forum. :mad:

J.Lindstroem

11th July 2009, 10:27

Rallyper

11th July 2009, 12:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=channel_page

he, he..... :D Just like that.

Barreis

11th July 2009, 16:06

XD x 15

Camelopard

12th July 2009, 12:38

Ask Malcolm

It's not up to me to ask Malcolm, it is you guys stating this b.s. about JML being a paying driver, if so come up with the evidence to prove it.

In my opinion if JML was a a paying driver he would be paying money to be in the Citroen camp, given that the C4 is a superior car to the Focus.

Camelopard

12th July 2009, 12:39

XD x 15

meaning what exactly?

A.F.F.

29th July 2009, 11:08

Latvala stated his biggest lesson now is how to lose.

Makes me wonder did he really think he had the chance to win Rally Poland at the start of that last stage :confused:

noel157

29th July 2009, 14:24

Latvala stated his biggest lesson now is how to lose.

Makes me wonder did he really think he had the chance to win Rally Poland at the start of that last stage :confused:

How to lose? He's already perfected that....
I guess you mean (or he means) is how not to lose?

driveace

29th July 2009, 14:42

he just might surprise you all this weekend !

29th July 2009, 15:07

he just might surprise you all this weekend !

I don't know, I presume he won't be allowed to win anyway so maybe he will just hold station behind the top 2?

A.F.F.

29th July 2009, 18:56

How to lose? He's already perfected that....
I guess you mean (or he means) is how not to lose?

No, he means to lose. The biggest problem for Latvala has been that he don't know how to lose, therefore cannot act like a second driver for the team. Now he claims he knows how not to drive for the win but for the second or third...

Wim_Impreza

29th July 2009, 20:37

he just might surprise you all this weekend !

With another accident. In the previous years in Neste Oil Rally Finland, he had usually a big accident too.

noel157

29th July 2009, 22:47

No, he means to lose. The biggest problem for Latvala has been that he don't know how to lose, therefore cannot act like a second driver for the team. Now he claims he knows how not to drive for the win but for the second or third...

Ah, he now knows how to support his team leader? Ok.
We shall see.

driveace

3rd August 2009, 22:34

There you go,team driver!.got ahead of Sordo too !
Get behind the guy,he is only young,and a bit headstrong

Buzz Lightyear

3rd August 2009, 22:40

There you go,team driver!.got ahead of Sordo too !
Get behind the guy,he is only young,and a bit headstrong

if a finn couldnt get infront of a tarmac 'expert' in finland, he would have been hung, drawn and quartered.

... by the finns!

A.F.F.

3rd August 2009, 23:12

if a finn couldnt get infront of a tarmac 'expert' in finland, he would have been hung, drawn and quartered.

... by the finns!

:up:

What Latvala did was a minimum. I don't get all the drama around him?? He should be at least third in every rally.

gloomyDAY

4th August 2009, 00:41

:up:

What Latvala did was a minimum. I don't get all the drama around him?? He should be at least third in every rally.Yep!

JML shows consistency and this thread will get locked.

A.F.F.

4th August 2009, 01:35

What's taking so long Mark? Lock the thread !

macksrallye

4th August 2009, 08:14

if a finn couldnt get infront of a tarmac 'expert' in finland, he would have been hung, drawn and quartered.

... by the finns!

For someone who's confidence was non-existant before the rally, who then got food poisening & felt ill all of saturday & in an age where the cars are damn near the same so it's insanely difficult to make up time on one another, I think he did bloody well.

Langdale Forest

25th October 2009, 20:08

Latvala spun on the last day of rally GB and in doing so proved what a showoff he is.

N.O.T

25th October 2009, 20:37

you all miss the point with him

Latvala has winning speed but he crashes often.... the hard part from my point of view to be successful in the WRC is to have the speed , reliability comes 80% of the times through experience.

Name a driver in the WRC over the years that had the speed but never managed something in the sport....there is none. and name also someone who never had the speed but had the reliability and achieved anything....

Lousada

25th October 2009, 20:44

"The only man who can beat Loeb" finished behind Loeb 10 times. Behind Hirvonen 10 times, behind Sordo 8 times, behind P Solberg 5 out of 10 rallies, behind H Solberg 5 times plus they both scored 0 in Cyprus.

Wim_Impreza

25th October 2009, 20:58

Yep!

JML shows consistency and this thread will get locked.

I think you are wrong in this conclusion. Even the years 2007 and 2008 were better for Latvala than this year.

N.O.T

25th October 2009, 21:46

do you remeber a guy called mikko hirvonen in his first official team ???

i sure had some very fun times in here with his driving....

Francis44

25th October 2009, 21:56

Ford hasn't won the Manufacter title because of him so he must get his stuff straight for next season.

Tomi

25th October 2009, 22:01

Ford hasn't won the Manufacter title because of him so he must get his stuff straight for next season.

thats true, he screwed up the fight for the manu title, many seem to complaine, but actually there is noboby fast enough who could replace him.

snellman

25th October 2009, 22:11

he have to take it easy get experience then slowly turn up the speed which he's got lot's of

Tomi

25th October 2009, 22:21

he have to take it easy get experience then slowly turn up the speed which he's got lot's of

Easier said than done, everyone who has something to do with him, try to put down the expectations on him before events, anyway he somehow take too much pressure, its just to be patient and wait that he begin to stay between the ditches.

Buzz Lightyear

25th October 2009, 22:27

Easier said than done, everyone who has something to do with him, try to put down the expectations on him before events, anyway he somehow take too much pressure, its just to be patient and wait that he begin to stay between the ditches.

How much longer Tomi? It's been 7 years now of much of the same thing.

Buzz Lightyear

25th October 2009, 22:27

thats true, he screwed up the fight for the manu title, many seem to complaine, but actually there is noboby fast enough who could replace him.

Petter Solberg.

Tomi

25th October 2009, 22:28

How much longer Tomi? It's been 7 years now of much of the same thing.
You better ask Wilson, i have nothing to do with their arrangements.

Tomi

25th October 2009, 22:29

Petter Solberg.

I have a feeling that Wilsons quote of past chamipons is full.

Buzz Lightyear

25th October 2009, 22:36

You better ask Wilson, i have nothing to do with their arrangements.

'Arrangement' is a perfect word for Latvala's place within the Ford Team.

There would be nothing like going back to good old logic.. like picking the best drivers available for the job in hand. Mikko and Petter would be title contenders.

Buzz Lightyear

25th October 2009, 22:38

I have a feeling that Wilsons quote of past chamipons is full.

The selection of drivers, whoever has had ultimate choice, has not best served Ford in the past decade.

cut the b.s.

25th October 2009, 22:38

thats true, he screwed up the fight for the manu title, many seem to complaine, but actually there is noboby fast enough who could replace him.

Speed isnt all that important if Ford wanted to replace Latvala, there are a few drivers who could compete with Sordo and keep it on the road.
Whatever JML may become he is an awful No2 driver which is what he has been meant to be to the Ford team this past 2 seasons

Tomi

25th October 2009, 22:38

'Arrangement' is a perfect word for Latvala's place within the Ford Team.

There would be nothing like going back to good old logic.. like picking the best drivers available for the job in hand. Mikko and Petter would be title contenders.

aah, im not so sure about that, petter would be 40 something before he gets used to the car.

cut the b.s.

25th October 2009, 22:39

'Arrangement' is a perfect word for Latvala's place within the Ford Team.

There would be nothing like going back to good old logic.. like picking the best drivers available for the job in hand. Mikko and Petter would be title contenders.

Or Mikko and PGA if you want to 'invest' for the future

Tomi

25th October 2009, 22:43

Speed isnt all that important if Ford wanted to replace Latvala, there are a few drivers who could compete with Sordo and keep it on the road.
Whatever JML may become he is an awful No2 driver which is what he has been meant to be to the Ford team this past 2 seasons

Really is there?, I can think of only 1, Atkinson, its a pity that there still is no britton who could reguary finish in top 5, the seat would be his long time ago, for sure.

Buzz Lightyear

25th October 2009, 23:00

Really is there?, I can think of only 1, Atkinson, its a pity that there still is no britton who could reguary finish in top 5, the seat would be his long time ago, for sure.

You are not going to draw me on that Tomi. Wilson has his own agenda when it comes to British drivers.

He doesn't invest in home talent like Citroen.. he would rather 'invest' a pertcentage of Finland's hard earned GDP in Finnish drivers.

A British driver will get his chance in the near furture.., and slap it up Ford is its with another manufactuer.

26th October 2009, 07:23

aah, im not so sure about that, petter would be 40 something before he gets used to the car.

Hmmm, I know you have a problem with Petter but he only scored 6 less points than JML this year despite missing two events and driving an old Xsara most of the year.

Finni

26th October 2009, 08:13

Hmmm, I know you have a problem with Petter but he only scored 6 less points than JML this year despite missing two events and driving an old Xsara most of the year.

And Petter was faster in both events when he was driving C4. There is no slightest doubt about Petter's ability to sweep the floor with Latvala. I also reckon that Petter would be at least match to Hirvonen. It also has to be reckoned that starting from the second loop of the second day Petter was only marginally slower than the top-two - occasionally as fast.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 09:19

Hmmm, I know you have a problem with Petter but he only scored 6 less points than JML this year despite missing two events and driving an old Xsara most of the year.

Not really with Petter, but its true i dont like the bull and whining, his fans seem to think he still is on the edge and has problem to see that thats not the case, LOL, a month something ago some even did speak about him winning in GB, and how GB is his best event, truth is that he propably would have finished in same position even with the Xara.
Also better to wait until he has a works seat, then the talks about how he beats who ever or is even with who ever becomes relevant, until that, its normally right after the start the cars fault if he cant keep in pace, or even more funny, he is not used to the car, ok there is drivers and DRIVERS, the DRIVERS does result even with limited testing.

ShiftingGears

26th October 2009, 09:37

Latvala is wasting a manufacturer seat.

I am evil Homer

26th October 2009, 09:57

Really is there?, I can think of only 1, Atkinson, its a pity that there still is no britton who could reguary finish in top 5, the seat would be his long time ago, for sure.

Aside from IRC champion Kris Meeke you mean?! Kris' biggest problem is his surname because Matty Wilson is a joke.

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 09:58

Not really with Petter, but its true i dont like the bull and whining, his fans seem to think he still is on the edge and has problem to see that thats not the case, LOL, a month something ago some even did speak about him winning in GB, and how GB is his best event, truth is that he propably would have finished in same position even with the Xara.
Also better to wait until he has a works seat, then the talks about how he beats who ever or is even with who ever becomes relevant, until that, its normally right after the start the cars fault if he cant keep in pace, or even more funny, he is not used to the car, ok there is drivers and DRIVERS, the DRIVERS does result even with limited testing.

At least he keeps it on the island when "learning" the car.

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 09:59

Aside from IRC champion Kris Meeke you mean?! Kris' biggest problem is his surname because Matty Wilson is a joke.

If he changed his name to Meekanin and lived in Jyvaskyla for a while.. Tomi might actually grow to like him.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 11:33

Aside from IRC champion Kris Meeke you mean?! Kris' biggest problem is his surname because Matty Wilson is a joke.

I think his biggest problem is that he drives in the wrong series, nobody who is in charge of signing drivers for WRC are not interested in irc, or have they been around there lately?
Also I dont think he would make any difference, average guy.

26th October 2009, 12:10

I think his biggest problem is that he drives in the wrong series, nobody who is in charge of signing drivers for WRC are not interested in irc, or have they been around there lately?
Also I dont think he would make any difference, average guy.

If there was actually anyone in WRC with any paid seats going spare then they certainly ought to be looking at IRC ahead of pWRC or jWRC, don't you think?

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 12:15

If there was actually anyone in WRC with any paid seats going spare then they certainly ought to be looking at IRC ahead of pWRC or jWRC, don't you think?

Exactly. There are more paid drives in IRC than WRC, and your not playing second fiddle to WRC as "also rans", but getting maxiumum exposure on Eurosport. Using Tomi's "driver measuring device", Hanninen and Kopecky are below average.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 12:19

If there was actually anyone in WRC with any paid seats going spare then they certainly ought to be looking at IRC ahead of pWRC or jWRC, don't you think?

I think everyone is free to drive where ever they want to, just replied on a post related to why Meeke dont get offers for a WRC seat, if he is happy there and feel that he is on the top of his carreer, its fine by me.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 12:24

If he changed his name to Meekanin and lived in Jyvaskyla for a while.. Tomi might actually grow to like him.

That might help, if he would be Finnish and would have talent, Finnish people works hard to get talented drivers further in their carreer, very seldom you see any Finn crying on a public forum about wasted talents, or how wrong it is that some driver dont get a seat, while the others are crying the Finns pick up the potential sponsors. :)

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 12:26

Tomi, are you saying to me the JML would be offered a seat without the money that follows him? At this particular moment in time, I very much doubt it. If Ford dropped him, where would he be? He would not dare drive a Super 2000 car, he would be thumped. Super 2000, in whatever form it takes, will be the best thing to happen WRC in a decade.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 12:31

Tomi, are you saying to me the JML would be offered a seat without the money that follows him? At this particular moment in time, I very much doubt it. If Ford dropped him, where would he be? He would not dare drive a Super 2000 car, he would be thumped.

As far as i know he is not paying anything to Wilson anymore, he is a paid driver, but earlier his sponsors did, same like Sainz and many others before him.
No idea what would happen if Ford would drop him, if they do then we see.

bluuford

26th October 2009, 12:38

Have you thought about the possibility that Latvala payed xxxxxx EUR for his first years in Ford and if the results were above level x then he gets free place in Ford team from the date xx.xx.20xx? And if not then team has to pay something for him:-) And Wilson does not want to pay and he hopes that Latvala still improves.

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 12:41

As far as i know he is not paying anything to Wilson anymore, he is a paid driver, but earlier his sponsors did, same like Sainz and many others before him.
No idea what would happen if Ford would drop him, if they do then we see.

Put Latvala in Super 2000 Cup, and teach him how to drive properly.
Sign Solberg for next year, and then bring him back in 2011.
Don't see much wrong with that, other than damaged pride.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 12:41

Tomi

26th October 2009, 12:44

Put Latvala in Super 2000 Cup, and teach him how to drive properly.
Sign Solberg for next year, and then bring him back in 2011.
Don't see much wrong with that, other than damaged pride.

i dont see your point, do you seriously belive that a driver with contract in WRC, voluntarely would swap to boulevard rally, nobody would be that thick.

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 12:45

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 12:50

i dont see your point, do you seriously belive that a driver with contract in WRC, voluntarely would swap to boulevard rally, nobody would be that thick.

You dont see my point?

The two guys that are thumping your guys, have learnt how to driver S1600's, and a particular driving styling, and now have a car that is build/adapted to drive, brake and accelerate the quickest way possilbe... in a straight line. The Fin's (wheather they admit it or not) have not learn't to drive this way, and until they do, they will not beat Loeb/Sordo/Citreon combo

Super 2000 driving style is the exact same as S1600, and for that reason, he will need to learn very quickly.

In the meantime, Solberg helps Ford win the manufacturers title.

Who says it would be voluntary? Your making it sound as if Latvala is calling the shots.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 12:53

You dont see my point?

The two guys that are thumping your guys, have learnt how to driver S1600's, and a particular driving styling, and now have a car that it adapted to drive, brake and accelerate the quickest way possilbe... in a straight line. The Fin's (wheather they admit it or not) have not learn't to drive this way, and until they do, they will not beat Loeb/Sordo/Citreon

Super 2000 driving style is the exact same as S1600, and for that reason, he will need to learn very quickly.

In the meantime, Solberg helps Ford win the manufacturers title.

Who says it would be voluntary? Your making it sound as if Latvala is calling the shots.

Latvala has contract to drive WRC for M-Sport for next year, that i know.

Buzz Lightyear

26th October 2009, 13:01

Latvala has contract to drive WRC for M-Sport for next year, that i know.

Good. It's fun with spread betting, guessing what stage he is going off on.

jens

26th October 2009, 13:52

I'm starting to lose patience with JML as well. Whereas Hirvonen has managed to improve a lot after a difficult beginning, this guy has shown no improvement whatsoever.

As for the question, who could be given the second works Ford drive, I'd personally nominate PGA - a rather overlooked driver IMO. Was faster than Garde in his first full WRC season and was going well in outdated Škoda. Who knows, he may even be championship material.

Finni

26th October 2009, 13:58

Also better to wait until he has a works seat, then the talks about how he beats who ever or is even with who ever becomes relevant, until that, its normally right after the start the cars fault if he cant keep in pace, or even more funny, he is not used to the car, ok there is drivers and DRIVERS, the DRIVERS does result even with limited testing.

OK Petter is poor-piss driver nowadays. However on stages he has been consistently faster than Latvala in both C4 rallies. Consider also that Petter had never been driving C4 in muddy conditions before rally GB.

Everyone who says that Petter wouldn't beat Latvala and Sordo in a works car has dropped the ball badly IMO.

serial jeff

26th October 2009, 14:00

Put Latvala in Super 2000 Cup, and teach him how to drive properly.
Sign Solberg for next year, and then bring him back in 2011.
Don't see much wrong with that, other than damaged pride.

Might have worked if they'd done it back in February, temporarily moving JML to Stobart (if they had, I suspect Ford could have the manufacturer's title) or even a couple months ago when Petter was deciding between the 08 spec C4/Focus. But now that Petter owns a C4, I doubt he'd be interested anymore.

Mintexmemory

26th October 2009, 14:19

I'm a J-M L admirer so have my own bias. I also think Petter is still capable of winning WRC ralies. Prokop and Evind are ,as yet, unproven in WRC and Meeke is a winner who needs a chance, BUT J-M L is capable of winning rallies and for a guy whose first podium was less than 2 years ago (November 2007) I think that he's made an enormous amount of progress. He still needs to learn when not to exceed his limit, but the alternative approach of looking to finish without ever getting near the limit (Wilson) is never going to be competitive. Clearly he also needs to concentrate better but I believe that he can still improve. So what do 'shoestring operation' Ford do? Try to employ a much more expensive Petter. Employ a guy who is unproven in WRC or stick with a guy who has won a WRC event and is still capable of improvement if given the right equipment.

Finni

26th October 2009, 14:45

I think that he's made an enormous amount of progress. He still needs to learn when not to exceed his limit, but the alternative approach of looking to finish without ever getting near the limit (Wilson) is never going to be competitive.

When Latvala started his factory-career 2007 he was fast and unreliable. Nowadays he is slow and and unreliable. There is no progress but regression. Next year is unlikely to be different. Nowadays he is not even fast. Hirvonen is remarkably faster and that's consistent state of affair.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 15:32

OK Petter is poor-piss driver nowadays. However on stages he has been consistently faster than Latvala in both C4 rallies. Consider also that Petter had never been driving C4 in muddy conditions before rally GB.

Everyone who says that Petter wouldn't beat Latvala and Sordo in a works car has dropped the ball badly IMO.

why are the works teams not interested in signing him then, they know for sure better.

Barreis

26th October 2009, 15:43

They have to pay him - big money 'cos Mr Hollywood means publicity.. Bigone..

Tomi

26th October 2009, 15:49

They have to pay him - big money 'cos Mr Hollywood means publicity.. Bigone..

I dont think so, now he pay him self to drive, one could think he would drive for cheap price.

MJW

26th October 2009, 15:53

Latvala has contract to drive WRC for M-Sport for next year, that i know.
If you listened to Malcolm on the teams radio scanners after JML went off at the end of that stage on Sunday, you could be tempted to say HAD a contract. MW was more than a little annoyed....... ,my guess is that MW soon cooled down and nothing will change at Ford's driver line up in 2010, except maybe more bring money gang with Block and Atko.

GigiGalliNo1

26th October 2009, 15:54

I dont think so, now he pay him self to drive, one could think he would drive for cheap price.

Not really. If he was in a good car in the past and he was a top driver....

so a top driver back in a good car will equal results... and results mean good pay.

My opinion.

Tomi

26th October 2009, 16:00

If you listened to Malcolm on the teams radio scanners after JML went off at the end of that stage on Sunday, you could be tempted to say HAD a contract. MW was more than a little annoyed....... ,my guess is that MW soon cooled down and nothing will change at Ford's driver line up in 2010, except maybe more bring money gang with Block and Atko.

I agree, many times he cant screw up anymore, and its because of him Ford lost the manu title this year.

Barreis

26th October 2009, 16:01

These days factory teams don't care for names 'cos there's no other teams and there's only one name in public (from living drivers) that even kids on the street know: Loeb..

Tomi

26th October 2009, 16:02

Not really. If he was in a good car in the past and he was a top driver....

so a top driver back in a good car will equal results... and results mean good pay.

My opinion.

much possible, no idea it was only a guess, its propably nicer to whine all the time and pay for it as well.

Mintexmemory

28th October 2009, 14:09

I agree, many times he cant screw up anymore, and its because of him Ford lost the manu title this year.

At the risk of being boring it's Ford's fault (and M-Sport) that they didn't win the Manufacturers Championship. Just like in F1 it was no contest for the first 5 rounds. Simply the C4 was a far superior car which caused the Ford guys, especially J-M L, to have to overdrive to keep in touch. So just who does the development work over winter? Young Matthew perhaps!
From my observations, I believe (1st hand in Ireland) that Jari-Matti was being told to go flat out to 'panic' the Citroen team. That might explain why he is cut the slack by Malcolm, hard to sack a guy when he's doing what he's told.
It's fair to criticise J-M L for the brain-fade in Poland but Catalunya was never going to be Ford event and for Rally GB the equipment he was given was sub-standard. He also won Sardinia on merit, how many events did Sordo win out of the list of Loeb failures?

Tomi

28th October 2009, 14:52

At the risk of being boring it's Ford's fault (and M-Sport) that they didn't win the Manufacturers Championship. Just like in F1 it was no contest for the first 5 rounds. Simply the C4 was a far superior car which caused the Ford guys, especially J-M L, to have to overdrive to keep in touch. So just who does the development work over winter? Young Matthew perhaps!
From my observations, I believe (1st hand in Ireland) that Jari-Matti was being told to go flat out to 'panic' the Citroen team. That might explain why he is cut the slack by Malcolm, hard to sack a guy when he's doing what he's told.
It's fair to criticise J-M L for the brain-fade in Poland but Catalunya was never going to be Ford event and for Rally GB the equipment he was given was sub-standard. He also won Sardinia on merit, how many events did Sordo win out of the list of Loeb failures?

Maybe, but what i mean is that the only thing expected from him now is to beat Sordo on gravel, that should not be to difficult, it mean that he should drive like he did in Finland this year, in my opinion he gets somehow carried away or gets "speed blind" in a way, he overdrive in a position where it is not necessary.
He should support Mikko and take loose points for the manu title, when Mikkos job is to go for the win, now when J-M screws up it puts Mikko in between the rock and the hard place, if he goes flat out and something happens, Ford end up only with memories.

Sulland

28th October 2009, 15:50

Malcolm W was pretty clear with Petter S in the early days: To finish first, you first have to finish !

Petter was brutally told to get to the finishline, and then when he could do that he could start adding speed.

Maybe he should have followed the same concept with JML. He is one of the few with potential to beat Loeb, but he needs to get smarter in his tactics. Maybe he need a mentor to plan the rallies, and coach him on all rallies, to keep him focused - and not get carried away !

Langdale Forest

28th October 2009, 16:10

If Solberg was in a works tream he would be winning again and therethore a much better choce for Ford than the showoff JML!

Tomi

28th October 2009, 16:14

If Solberg was in a works tream he would be winning again and therethore a much better choce for Ford than the showoff JML!

some belived the same when mcrae vent to citroen.

Langdale Forest

28th October 2009, 16:19

But McRea was a world champion,. Latvala is just a showoff.

Tomi

28th October 2009, 16:26

Maybe he need a mentor to plan the rallies, and coach him on all rallies, to keep him focused - and not get carried away !

When J-M came to England, and Pentti started coaching him, he asked once if I know some co-driver for J-M, I suggested that Jouhki should ask Jakke Honkanen if he is interested, I dont know if they did, but anyway they did choose a Brittish guy. The basic idea was that the co-driver would be experienced and while co-drive, also at the same look that the driver dont screw up too much, in a same way Harjanne did for Tommi earlier, that was a good method, and i belive it still is.

Juha_Koo

28th October 2009, 16:49

If Solberg was in a works tream he would be winning again and therethore a much better choce for Ford than the showoff JML!

Petter winning? JML is a showoff?

Heheh, yeah, very amusing stuff you got there. :rolleyes:

All you Petter fans keep on talking... The guy has lost "it". He had a proper C4 in Wales, which is one of his favourite rallies, and he can't even make a one stage win. It's difficult to accept but it's the truth. Or almost the truth.

I've also made an empirical observation that Petter has the most passionate fans. Therefore it's really, I mean really, difficult to discuss with them because for them Petter is a some sort of a godlike figure.

I'm a passionate JML fan, but hell, I don't treat him as a God. JML had a really bad season this year and he can't blame anyone else than himself. The amount of stupid mistakes was almost unbearable. But I still have faith in him. He's got the speed. Now it's time to get the consistency level up. He's a future champion, no question about it. Petter then again... He's a former champion.

Hartusvuori

28th October 2009, 17:29

I'm a passionate JML fan, but hell, I don't treat him as a God. JML had a really bad season this year and he can't blame anyone else than himself. The amount of stupid mistakes was almost unbearable. But I still have faith in him. He's got the speed. Now it's time to get the consistency level up. He's a future champion, no question about it. Petter then again... He's a former champion.

Pretty much for the first time in my life: +1.

Except I wouldn't want to downplay Petter just because he have passionate fans and is perhaps already on the down curve in his career. He's move to start PSWRT shows respectable dedication to the sport and he still have good pace. Can he still win an event? Oh well ... let's not get started again.

Macd

28th October 2009, 17:32

Petter is hardly past it. In his first gravel rally in a C4 he did pretty well.
Also remember he was the last world champion other than loeb. With more practice in that car he will be winning rallys again

serial jeff

28th October 2009, 17:39

All you Petter fans keep on talking... The guy has lost "it". He had a proper C4 in Wales, which is one of his favourite rallies, and he can't even make a one stage win. It's difficult to accept but it's the truth. Or almost the truth.

I disagree... I consider myself a Petter fan but I don't think that biases my opinion of him. Personally I thought his performance in Wales was pretty good- it was his first gravel rally in the C4 and he was setting approximately the same times as Dani all weekend (with the exception of SS7, where Dani beat him by 20seconds). With proper wipers on that stage, I think 3rd place could've gone either way.

Now I'm not saying Petter is as quick as Seb/Mikko or that he'll win rallies through speed next year (it may be possible, there is not enough evidence either way to draw a solid conclusion). But as Dani has shown, you dont have to be a winner to be a better second driver than JML.

Someday, JML might get more consistent, and then he'll be great. But until then, I think Ford's factory team would be better off with someone who's been proven he can at least keep the car on the road and end up with a solid haul of points (3rd/4th). It just happens that Petter was the only available driver who could do that- Henning is too slow to match Dani or Ogier, and there was no way Ford could have poached those guys from Citroen. There was Chris, of course, but he is also a bit of an unknown.

snellman

28th October 2009, 17:43

snellman

28th October 2009, 18:02

i think latvala lost his confindence in the end of this season, dissapointing the team takes hard on him

Sulland

28th October 2009, 18:22

When J-M came to England, and Pentti started coaching him, he asked once if I know some co-driver for J-M, I suggested that Jouhki should ask Jakke Honkanen if he is interested, I dont know if they did, but anyway they did choose a Brittish guy. The basic idea was that the co-driver would be experienced and while co-drive, also at the same look that the driver dont screw up too much, in a same way Harjanne did for Tommi earlier, that was a good method, and i belive it still is.

Same concept as with Petter and Phil, and that worked well. But we will never know what had happened if Petter had continued with Cato Menkerud, that is now co driving Henning ?

noel157

28th October 2009, 18:59

I disagree... I consider myself a Petter fan but I don't think that biases my opinion of him. Personally I thought his performance in Wales was pretty good- it was his first gravel rally in the C4 and he was setting approximately the same times as Dani all weekend (with the exception of SS7, where Dani beat him by 20seconds). With proper wipers on that stage, I think 3rd place could've gone either way.

Now I'm not saying Petter is as quick as Seb/Mikko or that he'll win rallies through speed next year (it may be possible, there is not enough evidence either way to draw a solid conclusion). But as Dani has shown, you dont have to be a winner to be a better second driver than JML.

Someday, JML might get more consistent, and then he'll be great. But until then, I think Ford's factory team would be better off with someone who's been proven he can at least keep the car on the road and end up with a solid haul of points (3rd/4th). It just happens that Petter was the only available driver who could do that- Henning is too slow to match Dani or Ogier, and there was no way Ford could have poached those guys from Citroen. There was Chris, of course, but he is also a bit of an unknown.

Chris an unknown? An unknown what? Australian?

Buzz Lightyear

28th October 2009, 22:33

Petter winning? JML is a showoff?

Heheh, yeah, very amusing stuff you got there. :rolleyes:

He had a proper C4 in Wales, which is one of his favourite rallies, and he can't even make a one stage win.

We not talking about winning rallies here. We talking about scoring points. Petter could do that.

The amount of stupid mistakes was almost unbearable.

Let me know when it becomes unbearable for you. For me, it was a long time ago.

He's got the speed.

We know that. Loeb could drive quicker than Latvala... even on those banzi stage times, but he is putting the his life and that of his co-driver at risk, unnessaessarily. It CANNOT be sustained.

He's a future champion.

I've heard that 7 years ago when he landed in UK. He, in all honesty, is not that much further developed.

Petter then again... He's a former champion.

To be a world champion, you must have mastered the art of staying on the road.

Juha_Koo

28th October 2009, 23:32

To be a world champion, you must have mastered the art of staying on the road.

:D

Say that to Ari Vatanen or Colin Mcrae...

So actually you don't have to master the art of staying on the road. It's just a question of keeping it on the road in a correct moment.

serial jeff

29th October 2009, 00:26

Chris an unknown? An unknown what? Australian?

lol, unknown ability to stay on the road. He was pretty good in 2008 though.

Say that to Ari Vatanen or Colin Mcrae...

So actually you don't have to master the art of staying on the road.

I don't know about Ari, but Colin's world championship came in a year when he did a relatively good job of staying on the road. He actually illustrates Buzz's point. Colin was champion in 1995 when, out of eight rallies, he had two victories and two no-points finishes. In contrast, the runner-up Carlos had three victories but three no-points. Colin won the championship that year because he finished the rally more often than his opponents, not just because of his speed.

Rallyper

29th October 2009, 01:15

JML will for sure stay at Ford. I was hearing the announcement at the pressconference in Jyväskylä when MW was praising JML and revealed him as Ford´s second driver for 2010. I will never forget the applauses from media either. :)

When JML gets his confidence back he´ll be a winner. :s mokin:

Petter also will score many points in the future. He´s not finished as some of you guys seems to believe. :cool:

I am evil Homer

29th October 2009, 09:42

:D

Say that to Ari Vatanen or Colin Mcrae...

So actually you don't have to master the art of staying on the road. It's just a question of keeping it on the road in a correct moment.

Really? Like that championship he lost on the RAC by crashing ;)

Langdale Forest

30th October 2009, 16:12

Petter winning? JML is a showoff?

Heheh, yeah, very amusing stuff you got there. :rolleyes:

All you Petter fans keep on talking... The guy has lost "it". He had a proper C4 in Wales, which is one of his favourite rallies, and he can't even make a one stage win. It's difficult to accept but it's the truth. Or almost the truth.

.

The reason why Solberg did not win any stages was because Loeb and hirvonen were pushing very hard.

Have you ever considerd that?

J.Lindstroem

30th October 2009, 17:10

The reason why Solberg did not win any stages was because Loeb and hirvonen were pushing very hard.

Im tired of those excuses.

Loeb and Hirvonen pushed hard, yes.

Why didn't he?

Langdale Forest

30th October 2009, 17:28

Because it was his first rally in the C4 on gravel.

ProRally

30th October 2009, 18:02

When J-M came to England, and Pentti started coaching him, he asked once if I know some co-driver for J-M, I suggested that Jouhki should ask Jakke Honkanen if he is interested, I dont know if they did, but anyway they did choose a Brittish guy. The basic idea was that the co-driver would be experienced and while co-drive, also at the same look that the driver dont screw up too much, in a same way Harjanne did for Tommi earlier, that was a good method, and i belive it still is.

Long time I heard Jakke's name ? How is he doing ? He was one of the really nice guys in wrc....

Probably teaching his kids.... they where doing a lot of cross country ski

Tomi

30th October 2009, 18:16

Long time I heard Jakke's name ? How is he doing ? He was one of the really nice guys in wrc....

Probably teaching his kids.... they where doing a lot of cross country ski

i guess you are right, i think he is slowing down the rally thing, maybe he is still doing some coaching, but im not sure.

Langdale Forest

4th November 2009, 17:48

Jakke Honkanen was Toni Gardemiester's co-driver. What has happend to Toni now?

Tomi

4th November 2009, 18:18

Jakke Honkanen was Toni Gardemiester's co-driver. What has happend to Toni now?

Nothing much, latest what i have heard so he is trying to get a drive in s2000 cup, but can be difficult to find, he is not so young anymore.

Langdale Forest

4th November 2009, 18:29

How old is he now?

Tomi

4th November 2009, 18:32

How old is he now?

not sure 33-34 i guess

Langdale Forest

4th November 2009, 18:47

Not that old.

Tomi

4th November 2009, 18:59

Not that old.

Not too old normally, but now when all the current WRC teams seats are occupied, and if there is coming new teams, i have a feeling that they will use younger drivers to "build the team around", no point to take a driver who maybe has seen his best driving years already or maybe only 1-2 good years left.
If I would run a S2000 cup team, I know who I would choose, and its no one of the current drivers not Garde either.

Langdale Forest

4th November 2009, 21:32

But Gardemiester got a reasonable result in almost any WRC car.

Barreis

4th November 2009, 21:49

Unfortunately never won.. Still remember final live TV stage on New Zeland when he won third place in Cordoba WRC..

Langdale Forest

4th November 2009, 21:50

He got 2nd place in Monte Carlo and Greece in 2005.

Tomi

4th November 2009, 22:08

But Gardemiester got a reasonable result in almost any WRC car.

Thats true, and he also has been very unlucky with the teams he has been in, better to wait and see if he can get somekind of program together.

Langdale Forest

4th November 2009, 22:11

He was lucky with Ford.

bluuford

4th November 2009, 22:23

How old is he now?

Tony is 34 and becomes 35 in 31th of March

Rallyper

4th November 2009, 22:24

noel157

4th November 2009, 22:39

Not too old normally, but now when all the current WRC teams seats are occupied, and if there is coming new teams, i have a feeling that they will use younger drivers to "build the team around", no point to take a driver who maybe has seen his best driving years already or maybe only 1-2 good years left.
If I would run a S2000 cup team, I know who I would choose, and its no one of the current drivers not Garde either.

Well Tomi, prey tell?

Tomi

4th November 2009, 22:51

OK, this topic is not regarding Garde, but anyway...

Yes is not, but better to do like this than start a new tread for every single minor issue.

Tomi

4th November 2009, 22:53

Well Tomi, prey tell?

Who I would choose? Atkinson and Ketomaa, both bloody fast and Ketomaa gets all out from the cars quicly.

Tomi

4th November 2009, 22:58

OK, this topic is not regarding Garde, but anyway...

If I was the teamboss I wouldn´t build my team around a youngster. I guess never Ford nor Citroen did that.

So for me any team could build around Garde. He has the quality for sure. Have you seen him riding his M3 in Finnish f-cup?? Look at his home page and you´ll see a brilliant driver,as like Pg never did get a decent team to drive for. :s mokin:

I have seen live too, and its offcourse incredible stuff when he drives the M3, but the tendense seems to be that the teams prefer younger drivers, maybe because they sell more merchendise that way, dont know.

Camelopard

4th November 2009, 23:59

If I was the teamboss I wouldn´t build my team around a youngster. I guess never Ford nor Citroen did that.

Sorry I have to disagree with you there, Citroen did build their team around a youngster by the name of Loeb.

Viking

5th November 2009, 14:14

Sorry I have to disagree with you there, Citroen did build their team around a youngster by the name of Loeb.

Citroen build their team around Sainz and McRae, Loeb only happend to be faster than them.

Viking

5th November 2009, 14:23

Who I would choose? Atkinson and Ketomaa, both bloody fast and Ketomaa gets all out from the cars quicly.

My team, Petter Solberg and Andreas Mikkelsen would be faster than your guys
catch more headlines and sell more T-shirts :D

Buzz Lightyear

5th November 2009, 14:26

Thats true, and he also has been very unlucky with the teams he has been in, better to wait and see if he can get somekind of program together.

What was unlucky about his time with Ford?

I am evil Homer

5th November 2009, 14:38

Citroen build their team around Sainz and McRae, Loeb only happend to be faster than them.

Actually no they developed a car over many years through Bugalski and Puras, then Loeb. McRae was given a third car to try and win the Manu title...and Loeb showed them both his talents!!!

Tomi

5th November 2009, 14:47

Actually no they developed a car over many years through Bugalski and Puras, then Loeb. McRae was given a third car to try and win the Manu title...and Loeb showed them both his talents!!!

Rådström also should not be forgotten, he did do good work in developing Citroen too.

Josti

5th November 2009, 14:47

Citroen build their team around Sainz and McRae, Loeb only happend to be faster than them.

No, Citroën was build around Loeb, but at that time not to an extent of what we see now. As far as I remember, McRae never felt home at Citroën and even said he didn't got the attention he experienced at Ford.

Tomi

5th November 2009, 14:49

What was unlucky about his time with Ford?

I was talking about Seat, Skoda and Suzuki all stopped and he was left without a drives.

Tomi

5th November 2009, 14:51

My team, Petter Solberg and Andreas Mikkelsen would be faster than your guys
catch more headlines and sell more T-shirts :D

Agree about the t-shirt thing, faster? no way.
What comes to headlines, it depends where you read the headlines, if you read the papers somewhere where rally is considered a sport, propably not, but if it is somewhere where it is considered like somekind of a freak show, propably yes.

Viking

5th November 2009, 15:23

Agree about the t-shirt thing, faster? no way.
What comes to headlines, it depends where you read the headlines, if you read the papers somewhere where rally is considered a sport, propably not, but if it is somewhere where it is considered like somekind of a freak show, propably yes.

faster? way. :)

I guess you mean: "where rally is considered a sport" = Finland,
"somewhere where it is considered like somekind of a freak show" = Rest of the world

And, by the way... Time`s up for Latvala

Buzz Lightyear

5th November 2009, 15:30

I was talking about Seat, Skoda and Suzuki all stopped and he was left without a drives.

If he had produced results, maybe they would have stayed?

Kopecky could set fastest times in a Skoda.

Tomi

5th November 2009, 15:36

If he had produced results, maybe they would have stayed?

Really, I tought it had to do with money.

Barreis

5th November 2009, 16:26

If he had produced results, maybe they would have stayed?

Kopecky could set fastest times in a Skoda.

I agree..

Buzz Lightyear

5th November 2009, 16:28

Really, I tought it had to do with money.

Usual excuse.. if the're not winning.

If Toyota won the F1 Title instead of Brawn they wouldnt be pulling out. But instead, its the "world financial crisis"

Tomi

5th November 2009, 16:45

maybe so, but if Toni cant find work in the WRC he did anyway have a quite good rally carreer, worksdriver in a few teams, and also many drives with other WRC cars as well, he is 100% a rally driver so he will continue in the sport somehow, hopefully the F-Group.

Langdale Forest

10th January 2010, 18:19

What can we expect from JML in 2010?

pettersolberg29

10th January 2010, 18:22

Crashes, occasional podium and then replaced by Solberg or Atkinson mid-season.

Langdale Forest

10th January 2010, 18:23

Destroying a time controll, ripping all 4 wheels of the car in one crash and reversing into Mikko's car in the service park.

Rallyper

10th January 2010, 19:08

JML will along with Mikko will be the hardest contester to Loeb.

I think both JML and Mikko will be one step faster this year, which will make Loeb a bit confused as the victorys not will come as easy as before. ;)

Kimi will take point from the beginning being a remarkable consistent on places 5-8 if the field looks as in 2009. :)

urabus-denoS2000

10th January 2010, 19:38

MikeD

10th January 2010, 21:14

What can we expect from JML in 2010?

His final season!

Langdale Forest

10th January 2010, 21:35

I think it will be Wilson JNR's last session.

Rallyper

10th January 2010, 23:08

I do not agree Rallyper,I think Kimi's main challenge will be to actually finish a rally.

I don't like about him that he needs pure simple rally kilometeres

He has done 3 rallies and now he want to play on the top level??? Even gentleman drivers rally for a few years before getting in a top car or top level

I´ve seen similar thing with Mattias Ekstrom. I think on his first rally in Mitsu EvoIV, he drove almost as fast as the best ones in a Super Cup rally in sweden. I think it was back in 2002. Seeing him at that time you couldn´t belive he was a beginner.

So with that in mind I don´t think Kimi will disappoint anyone of his fans, because he has the same talent and driving ability as Ekstrom.

urabus-denoS2000

10th January 2010, 23:17

Hope he does,my friends watched him at Rally della Marca last year and they said he was spectacular but on the limit on every corner.He is pushing way too much and selfcontrol comes with expericence ;)

Juha_Koo

11th January 2010, 01:55

What can we expect from JML in 2010?

The win of World Rally Championship.

To be honest, if Malcolm forces JML to be the second driver, then we see consistent podiums and few mistakes in mid-season because he's so frustrated because he can't push for victories.

I really hope that JML has a solid start to the season and he could be fighting for the championship lead during mid-season. Tarmac rallies will most likely cost him some points and therefore he becomes the second driver in the later half of the season. This is, for me, the most realistic option.

Or then Mikko and Seb fight for championship so hard that they both suffer "many" offs and retirements and JML sort of steals the championship win. I can already imagine how everybody would be saying "Yeah but he's not a real champion to me, he just won because of others had bad luck bla bla bla..."

N.O.T

11th January 2010, 04:20

i think the first 3 events are very crucial for Latvala if he manages to survive and be on podiums he may turn out to be a contender because the speed is definately there, but if continues his unstable performances and starts crashing again then Malcon may hire another driver with deep pockets to do the job.

Rallyper

11th January 2010, 10:07

Hartusvuori

11th January 2010, 10:13

Or then Mikko and Seb fight for championship so hard that they both suffer "many" offs and retirements and JML sort of steals the championship win.

I had that dream as well ;-)

But realistically I think the biggest challenge - once again - for JML is to get the consistency. If he manages to get to the finish without any mishaps, he's definitely number three in the championship, which after 2008 and 2009 should feel like a title win. But no matter what - just if my mental health stays liveable during the season - JML is definitely my favourite driver.

Tomi

11th January 2010, 10:16

The win of World Rally Championship.

To be honest, if Malcolm forces JML to be the second driver, then we see consistent podiums and few mistakes in mid-season because he's so frustrated because he can't push for victories.

He will be clear second driver, its desided long time ago already.

Simmi

11th January 2010, 10:39

It would be a crime if JML sneaked the title instead of Mikko IMO. The amount of weight Mikko has taken for the Ford team on his shoulders alone. When you consider his 2004 season. You would never have thought he could mature into the driver he is now. He is the exact blueprint JML should follow - starting by being Mikko's number two next year and aiming for a podium on every event.

I think like people say the first rounds are crucial. But for the life of me I can't see Jari-Matti being able to string together a title run. That just does not compute in my brain.

pettersolberg29

11th January 2010, 11:13

If Loeb or Mikko doesn't get the title I am certain it wont be JML who does get it. With more tarmac events this year my money is on Sordo to join the battle this year - he matured a lot in 2009. If Petter gets a good C4 he'll be up there in the championship too as he has improved consistency, but lost a bit of pace.

Tomi

11th January 2010, 12:38

All is set for an interesting season again, many different things to follow again.
Mikko has to rise the risk level if he want to fight for the title with Loeb, also Sordo have on paper an upper hand on J-M this year, he can be a threat for Mikko aswell.
Ogier will be faster this year again, but how much, Kimi might surprise on tarmac too, if he stays on the road.
In Sweden it will also be interesting to see how fast the customer Ford is in reality, so many things to wait forward too.

Langdale Forest

17th February 2010, 08:23

Latvala did what Malcolm Wilson expected of him in Sweden, but I think he will push a little harder in Mexico. :)

EavesFan09

17th February 2010, 09:23

Latvala did what Malcolm Wilson expected of him in Sweden, but I think he will push a little harder in Mexico. :)

May first rally as a BP Ford Abu Dhabi fan and I must say I am not judging Jarri Latvala on just this one performance, and I think though I am with Simmi on JML in terms of how likely it is he will put together a strong enough run to challenge, I would like to think he will still improve as the season gets on. So I am sort of with you on that.

Tomi

17th February 2010, 11:46

Latvala did what Malcolm Wilson expected of him in Sweden, but I think he will push a little harder in Mexico. :)

No way, he will drive the same way all season, he can only go for the win if something happens to Mikko, that Mikko is nr1 in Ford now means that there is only leftovers now for JM, testing and everything goes on Mikkos terms.

WRCfan

17th February 2010, 12:53

It's not such a bad thing. The lad is in his early 20's and has many years ahead of him to drive as a #1 driver. He does need to settle down and putting some restrictions on him is probably a good thing for a season.

When he was challenging as an equal #1 driver that is when things went wrong, trying to hard. I feel Malcolm has made a good choice here, the bill for repairs last season would have been horrendous!

JML has proved he is fast, everyone knows that, now he just needs to settle down a little and work on consistency while being quick. Sweden was a promising start for him despite telling us he was under pressure to finish and play his role as Mikko's backup.

He is not the first young driver with speed to come out guns blazing and make mistakes, most of the others ended up world champions, just needed someone to tighten the reigns at the right time.

jonkka

17th February 2010, 15:29

The interesting thing is that Ford under Malcolm's time has never had favoured driver - this is a first time they put pecking order in place.

Roy

17th February 2010, 15:48

The interesting thing is that Ford under Malcolm's time has never had favoured driver - this is a first time they put pecking order in place.

Latvala role is the same of Hirvonen under Gronholm. Gronholm was first man by Ford.

Langdale Forest

17th February 2010, 15:49

And McRae was Over Sainz in 2000/2002/2002.

ShiftingGears

18th February 2010, 09:29

J4MIE

18th February 2010, 22:11

It was a good result in Sweden for him but I am still surprised that he didn't go off at some point considering the way he way driving, just the same as I watched him last year. If he could stop going sideways so much, then he would be a heck of a lot faster and probably mless likely to have accidents.

I am still undecided but it will be a good season for him (though I bet he will be frustrated) but tat's how it is and Mikko shows that by improving slowly as long as you mainly keep out of trouble then you can reach the level that nobody else can. Mikko must be champion this year.

White Sauron

18th February 2010, 23:25

It was a good result in Sweden for him but I am still surprised that he didn't go off at some point considering the way he way driving, just the same as I watched him last year. If he could stop going sideways so much, then he would be a heck of a lot faster and probably mless likely to have accidents.

Seems like he's still driving by eyes (so-called rally-raid style), not by ears (using pace-notes to their full efficiency)...

Barreis

19th February 2010, 10:13

He's driving from "outside" and that's why he's crashing so much..

Langdale Forest

19th February 2010, 15:11

How can someone drive from the 'outside'?

Langdale Forest

7th March 2010, 18:51

A steady but somewhat slow drive for JML in Mexico, prehaps Jordan will bring him some speed.

amilk

7th March 2010, 19:33

A steady but somewhat slow drive for JML in Mexico, prehaps Jordan will bring him some speed.

He can do it quicker but not allowed. In almost all interview he mentione his rule in the team. It's paintfull for him it's very clear, the guy was born to fight for win

Viking

7th March 2010, 20:06

Latvala were fastest Ford and did what he should do, Ford is still leading manu championship
Sordo were the "Latvala" of Mexico

EavesFan09

8th March 2010, 08:57

Latvala beat Mikko in 10 of the 21 rallies and was ahead of him overall right untill SS21.

Langdale Forest

12th March 2010, 20:49

It's a sad situation for Latvala, but Malcolm Wilson can apply team orders if he wishes to.

mjh

13th March 2010, 02:28

Latvala beat Mikko in 10 of the 21 rallies and was ahead of him overall right untill SS21.

I assume you mean stages?
Six of the stages that JML beat Mikko on were on the first day when Mikko was road sweeping. Everyone was beating Mikko!
It was a different story on the next two days, when they were more evenly matched, with Mikko being slightly ahead of Latvala on the majority. At the end of the day I think it is obvious the works team Fords had a problem at Mexico so you can't really compare the two drivers when they were both lumbered with a dud set up.

The bigger picture is that JML owes the team for their faith in him last year, when his stuff ups played a major part in Ford failing to take either title last year. Probably their bast chance for years, with Seb also making a few uncharacteristic mistakes later in the season.

He is bumped to second driver this year, rightly IMHO for the team, and on the evidence of the first two rallies is doing a darn sight better than Sordo in that role! It was absolutely right that he should let Mikko through, as that is what Citroen proved they will do last year to get their premier driver the maximum points.

WRCMAD Sean

14th March 2010, 23:23

lavia is a good driver, and the crashs are very entertaining to watch. From a viewing perspective i think it would be sad to see him go.

GigiGalliNo1

15th March 2010, 12:40

lavia is a good driver, and the crashs are very entertaining to watch. From a viewing perspective i think it would be sad to see him go.

who?

turves

15th March 2010, 12:51

who?

Lavia! Latvala's half-brother... LOL

WRCMAD Sean

16th March 2010, 21:22

who?
haha, I'm sure you can put 2 and 2 together

Langdale Forest

16th March 2010, 21:28

and the crashs are very entertaining to watch.

They can also be very distressing to watch. :(

_FQL1A_QDgY

EuroTroll

17th March 2010, 17:05

They can also be very distressing to watch. :(

I bet he'd like that removed from his permanent record. :s

GigiGalliNo1

18th March 2010, 02:32

What's he saying in that video?

EuroTroll

18th March 2010, 03:17

What's he saying in that video?

Well, he just completely lost it there for a sec. I guess the frustration got to him.

Langdale Forest

18th March 2010, 07:25

He was very young when that crash happend, so he thought it might have been the end of his WRC carrer because he needed to impress people.

snellman

18th March 2010, 16:10

What's he saying in that video?
he just repeats, it can't be possible

Langdale Forest

11th April 2010, 18:41

Latvala is currentley ahead of Hirvonen in the championship, so if Mikko does not score any points in Turkey and if Latvala wins, could Ford try to make him win the championship instead of Mikko?

Tomi

11th April 2010, 19:46

Latvala is currentley ahead of Hirvonen in the championship, so if Mikko does not score any points in Turkey and if Latvala wins, could Ford try to make him win the championship instead of Mikko?

at some point for sure, but mikko i belive is still the nr 1 at ford.

WRCfan

12th April 2010, 06:15

Mikko has for sure had a bad start to the season.
He needs to be straightening up a bit now. I think the immense pressure is there so he can't relax at anytime, this is when the really good guys shine through. Pressure is half the battle...

Xsara Fan

12th April 2010, 09:21

Latvala is currentley ahead of Hirvonen in the championship, so if Mikko does not score any points in Turkey and if Latvala wins, could Ford try to make him win the championship instead of Mikko?

I think it`s the same situation like 'Schumacher/Irvine' or 'Loeb/Sordo'.