Castroneves Trial: This is what I don't get

[MDS]

I've been following the coverage of Helio's trail closely, but obviously as someone whose not in the courtroom I'm not privy to a lot of details I'd like to know. But what I keep coming back to is this:

The defense theory is this... That Helio never intended to keep most of the money, rather his plan was to hand it over to his father for covering the costs of his early racing career. Okay, I get that, but if that's the case, and paying back his father was a priority, why would you ask your father to wait nearly a decade before getting a payback?

What sense does it make to say "Dad, I want to pay you back, but first lets put the money into an offshore account, where it will collect interest for a decade, and once I start receiving the money, that I'll still have to pay taxes on then, I'll pay you back."

How does that make any sense? If paying Helio's father back was a priority, wouldn't he, you know, have paid him back by now?

Also, how could Helio possibly think it would be legal to take untaxed income that he was awarded contractually, put it in an offshore account, where it would grow without paying interest for almost 10 years, before he would have to count it as income? Whether you cash your paycheck or not it's still income that you earned, and you still have to pay tax on it. What Helio, or his lawyers, attempted to do is to invest the withholding from his paycheck, earn investment revenue off of it for 10 years, and then pay the government, if he didn't leave the country before then.

Honestly, the more I read about the case, the more the government's theory looks true. Everyone knows that drivers careers could be cut short, and doing the deal with Fintage, if his career had ended last year, he could have moved to Monaco, which he has stated he might do, and not paid any US taxes.

The only way that Helio's defense makes any kind of sense is if you figured he planned on having a long career, and could live off the endorsements he made working for Penske and that his father's good health would continue for the next decade or longer, so that paying him back would come at a good time in his father's life.

[NickFalzone]

I agree MDS, however the more I read about it the more I believe Helio will get off. Unlike many laws, the courts do have a loophole regarding ignorance of tax law. Helio has a lot of reasons to suggest he is/was ignorant of the law and was given bad advice.

[Shifter]

Sounds to me like a micrcosm of what got the economy in trouble. Trying to get your dollars to perform high-wire acts and jump through flaming hoops :)

Helio may claim that he unknowingly broke the rules, but he should know that is not how money and taxes were meant to be processed. If he didn't drive a race car I wouldn't care one bit if he got his visa pulled, so I'm not going to let my racer sympathies get in the way. Let justice be done.

[anthonyvop]

The thought that a trial this complicated will be decided by a group of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty is scary.

[ykiki]

The thought that a trial this complicated will be decided by a group of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty is scary.

I understand what you're saying, but I served on a federal court jury with several competent people (10 had college degrees, and a few had advanced degrees). Out of a courtroom full of 100 potential jurors, the judge only excused two. One gentleman had a serious medical condition and another gentleman's son was murdered, while the killer was set free on a technicality. Aside from those two, the judge strongly admonished anyone else who tried to produce any kind of an excuse.

The point here - don't just assume that everyone who shows up for jury duty is an idiot.

[Chris R]

The thought that a trial this complicated will be decided by a group of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty is scary.

While I agree with your sentiment, I think you will find that many public service and corporate jobs actually pay their employees for at least some time served on jury - if ti didn't cost me much money I wouldn't mind serving on a jury - but as someone who is self employed it can cost me a fortune.....

[SarahFan]

Helio is in a world of hurt

[pits4me]

Even if proven guilty, Helio should get off as the United States tax code is, just by itself, cruel and unusual punisment.

Especially troublesome for foreign athletes with potential tax liability in their home country as well as US, Canada, Australia, and all the states in which they race.

[dataman1]

Especially troublesome for foreign athletes with potential tax liability in their home country as well as US, Canada, Australia, and all the states in which they race.

Why do they come to the US to display their talent? Money, big money. They need to know and follow the rules. Any US citizen would be in jail already.

[SoCalPVguy]

Even if proven guilty, Helio should get off as the United States tax code is, just by itself, cruel and unusual punisment.

Well said, Timmy Geithner.

I think (based on what I read, so consider the sources), that Helio will be found guilty as an "example" - however punishment will be full restitution, penalties, interest and probation as he is not a career swindler, a' la Madoff. I would be very surprised to see prison time.

Following any conviction; I think his manager/accountants would be very vulnerable for a lawsuit of errors and ommissions as they are supposed to be professionals that know the codes.

[FormerFF]

The thought that a trial this complicated will be decided by a group of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty is scary.

I'm not sure how it is where you live, but here (Fulton County, Georgia) there are about three reasons you are excused: primary caregiver for a child under 6, incompetent or disabled, or over a certain age (something like 75). Otherwise, you go when called. You can game the system for a little while, but they will eventually catch up to you. The CFO of the company I work for forgot about his jury summons. The judge sent two sheriff's deputies to his house at six in the morning and took him to the judge's chambers for a meeting.

As far as Helio goes, what is confusing here? He lives in the U. S. and works in the U. S. for a U. S. based company. Why would he think he could avoid U. S. taxes? I understand if he were still living in Brazil that there might be some gray areas, but that's not the case.

[Jag_Warrior]

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive...

[indycool]

Well, they're talking about the years 1999-2004. In 1999, Helio would have been fresh from Brazil in a new country with all new people around his racing program. I'm born in America, 61 years old, I still hafta go to H&R Block and I STILL don't know if I do it right or not.

[MDS]

Well, they're talking about the years 1999-2004. In 1999, Helio would have been fresh from Brazil in a new country with all new people around his racing program. I'm born in America, 61 years old, I still hafta go to H&R Block and I STILL don't know if I do it right or not.

But what I'm stuck on isn't that complicated. If paying back his father was so important, why did Helio wait 10 years to access the money and pay his father back? If you pay your father back for starting your career you don't say, "I've got the money to pay you now, but lets put it an account that neither of us can access for 10 years, then I'll pay you back." Makes no sense

What makes sense to me is Helio envisioned racing about 10 years and moving to a tax shelter without having to pay taxes on it at all, and have it earning money tax free without witholding and then with draw it once he's living in Monaco. That makes perfect sense on multiple levels to me.

I just ran these figures with an free compound interest calculator, and if fintage had the money sitting in an account earing an average of 8 percent, which isn't bad, but not unrealistic, every year for the past 10 years, it would have generated $10.74 million. Had Helio paid taxes on that same amount it would only be worth about $7.8 million, so even if Helio pays the $2.7 million in interest now he still comes out ahead, which was probably the plan all along.

[garyshell]

My $.02. Helio is/was a race car driver not a tax attorney. He and his sister hire one who tells them this is what they should do to defer the income via an annuity. Now each of you look in the mirror and answer the following question: if the attorney told YOU that such an off shore annuity would allow YOU to defer the income and legally pay the taxes on the original amount after the annuity earned you aditional income, which of you would NOT follow the attorneys advice?

To me the only thing Helio and his sister are guilty of MIGHT be not geting a second opinion.

Gary

[MDS]

I own my own company, so I get tax advice from a number of sources. Several times I have received advice from tax attorneys that would have created an illegal situation had I done what they were suggesting.

Making decisions based on one attorney's advice is moronic, no matter how well respected that attorney is.

[garyshell]

I own my own company, so I get tax advice from a number of sources. Several times I have received advice from tax attorneys that would have created an illegal situation had I done what they were suggesting.

Making decisions based on one attorney's advice is moronic, no matter how well respected that attorney is.

And do we know that they DIDN'T get a second opinion? From what I have read of the reports, alot of the legality of this hinges on the ownership of the companies involved. And then again from what I have read thus far, I am not really convinced that the government has made a compelling case for this part of the case. We'll know in a few days what the folks in the jury box who have heard ALL of the details think.

As for it being moronic, I am not sure I'd go that far. A bit naive maybe but not moronic. Especially since this attorney had been highly recommended by others in the racing industry.
Gary

[indycool]

I'd imagine athletes in all sports are watching this trial very closely. You read about A-Rod getting $120 million over eight years with "X" much deferred or a Tennessee defensive end getting $100 million over seven with so much guaranteed and so much deferred, I'll bet they're paying some attention.

[Old3Fan]

I'm no tax genius. Actually probably nobody is but I do know that you can defer a certain amount of your income from say your employer and the amount you defer is not taxable until your employer actually pays you the money. Hell half of the AZ Diamondbacks from their championship season deferred millions and the DBacks are still still repaying that money. But I don't think you can defer any and have it drawing interest and that interest is forgotten when you finally collect what was deferred. Well if he is declared guilty he can always apply for a job with President Obama. That seems to be a precedent being set in alot of his appointments. Don't pay your taxes and become head of the IRS.

[beachbum]

There is nothing wrong with differed income plans, if they are set up correctly. There are certain well known rules and conditions. If a person follows those rules, the IRS won't have a problem. The prosecutions contention is that Helio's plans didn't follow the rules, and the reasons were intentional. Based on what little has been reported in the press, the IRS probably has presented a strong case.

The idea that Helio is just a race driver and not a tax attorney is correct, but he is a multimillionaire race driver who can and apparently did get advice from more than one source. The fact that he "neglected" to inform his tax accountant of important income can easily be seen as deliberate, not accidental. Using naive as an excuse may work for a person preparing their own return, but he hired professionals and then didn't give them all of the information for them to do their job.

[hondacom]

Helio is heading to jail. If everyone paid their Taxes the way they should, we would all pay less in the end. That's the way it works. Simple!.

[indycool]

Are you a juror?

[garyshell]

Are you a juror?

No, but he slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

Gary

[Alexamateo]

My 2¢:

7 promotions was set up in March 1999, and probably to do just what they said, try and secure sponsorship for Helio. If it was to avoid taxes, it was done to avoid taxes in Brazil. Keep in mind that in 1999, Helio was a pay driver driving for Hogan for basically nothing. Hogan was folding, and for all intents and purposes, Helio was out of a ride figuring to be nothing more than a footnote in CART history, an aspiring driver that tried, but didn't make it.

Then Greg Moore was killed.

For whatever reasons (sponsors deadlines etc, who knows?) Penske was under pressure to sign a driver quickly. Helio is avail., but what about a contract? Well, there's already one that's been agreed to in principle, prepared by Alan Miller for Greg Moore. A grieving Miller (for he was a Moore friend) prepares a contract by basically replacing Moore's name with Helio's, and substituting 7 Promotions for whatever the name of Greg Moore's licensing company was. They sign the contract.

Later, when there's more time to review, they realize that their situations are different. Greg Moore was not a US resident, Helio Castroneves is. Penske will now have to withold 30% for taxes. They ask Penske to delay payment on the licensing agreement, and come up with the Fintage arrangement in the Netherlands. The red flag is raised though and starts the investigation and leads us to where we are today.

My take, I don't see where Alan Miller would have any criminal intent. There's no upside for him, His name and reputation are too good to risk for whatever fees/commissions there are on a piddling $5 million dollar deal with an at the time unproven driver. If he was shady or crooked, we'd be hearing about his deals with Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson, because you know those are being closely audited now, but we are not.

Now Helio, I am not sure there was a lot of forethought into avoiding taxes, or cheating the IRS, because he was that close to being out of a job, but I do believe that he would be tempted to be fast and loose with the rules, so some facts may change after the fact. (Look at the fact that some Brazilian sponsorships were kicked back at 80% to principals in Brazil.) It certainly looks shady. Of course, that would be a matter for Brazilian authorities. Then again, it could just be the way business is done in Brazil. I don't know Brazil, but my brother-in-law is Mexican, and part of doing business in a third-world country is the mordidas or as I like to say, unofficial taxes :p :. Does that go on in Brazil? If so, it could just be part of the culture Helio has grown up in, so he probably feels he hasn't done anything wrong.

Maybe he hasn't, my hope would be that he just owe back taxes and penaties and be able to pay them and resume his career. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[beachgirl]

What I don't get is why the original contract just wasn't amended at a later date, when everyone's emotions about Greg Moore were a little more under contro. Contracts are amended every single day, quite legally. So, why wasn't this done, if this contract was so "defective" or "wrong"?

I liked Helio for a long time. Thought he was a little too slick at times, but a nice enough guy and a terrific racer. Well, I surely don't like, or respect, him how. Whether or not he's convicted, he's willingly walked on the grey side, and stepped over the black line. He has no respect for the country that has provided him with a very, very profitable living, and that's just not acceptable to me.

[Jag_Warrior]

What I don't get is why the original contract just wasn't amended at a later date, when everyone's emotions about Greg Moore were a little more under contro. Contracts are amended every single day, quite legally. So, why wasn't this done, if this contract was so "defective" or "wrong"?

I liked Helio for a long time. Thought he was a little too slick at times, but a nice enough guy and a terrific racer. Well, I surely don't like, or respect, him how. Whether or not he's convicted, he's willingly walked on the grey side, and stepped over the black line. He has no respect for the country that has provided him with a very, very profitable living, and that's just not acceptable to me.

^+1^

[DBell]

I'd imagine athletes in all sports are watching this trial very closely. You read about A-Rod getting $120 million over eight years with "X" much deferred or a Tennessee defensive end getting $100 million over seven with so much guaranteed and so much deferred, I'll bet they're paying some attention.

In cases like this,most of the time the defered money is so the teams can manage their salary cap situations.

[DBell]

What I don't get is why the original contract just wasn't amended at a later date, when everyone's emotions about Greg Moore were a little more under contro. Contracts are amended every single day, quite legally. So, why wasn't this done, if this contract was so "defective" or "wrong"?

I liked Helio for a long time. Thought he was a little too slick at times, but a nice enough guy and a terrific racer. Well, I surely don't like, or respect, him how. Whether or not he's convicted, he's willingly walked on the grey side, and stepped over the black line. He has no respect for the country that has provided him with a very, very profitable living, and that's just not acceptable to me.

Good post.

[indycool]

Sure is, DBell. What makes rthe difference? A-Rod could move to Monaco, too.

[beachgirl]

Sure is, DBell. What makes rthe difference? A-Rod could move to Monaco, too.

Yes, he could. But I would be willing to bet that 99.9% of those contracts are legal, and that there is a "boilerplate" IRS-approved deferred payment/compensation plan.

[MDS]

Sure is, DBell. What makes rthe difference? A-Rod could move to Monaco, too.

There is a difference between a differed compensation contract and self-deferring your own income. The difference is that Helio got paid, essentially took control of the money, and refused to pay taxes on it for 10 years while he invested in an off shore account.

In the MLB contracts the teams hold the money and pay the player on an agreed upon schedule. What happened in Helio's case is Penske gave him the money, but Helio claims since he never actually had the ability to spend it, event though it was paid out years ago in accordance with his wishes.

[indycool]

If you read the stories on the trial, payments of the money are not due till May 31 and Helio hasn't received a dime yet.

[MDS]

If you read the stories on the trial, payments of the money are not due till May 31 and Helio hasn't received a dime yet.

That's not entirely accurate.

Helio hasn't received any of the money yet because he chose to invest it with Fintage. Penske paid the money, on time, to Fintage. If Penske had held on to the money until May there wouldn't be an issue, but since Penske paid out the money Helio should have paid taxes on the money since that contract has been run out.


I'm have a somewhat similar situation. I live off of salary my company pays me, however I have ownership stakes in two other enterprises and I do some consulting work on the side. All of the income from my other jobs are invested in series of different investments, and I have never accessed the money and I can't spend most of it at the moment.

One salary in particular gets dumped into a mutual fund that I am locked out of for a number of years before I can draw that money. It's the exact same situation as Helio, only I pay taxes on the money when I earn it not when the account becomes due.

Essentially what Helio is trying to do is take his entire paycheck, invest it, let the entire sum grow tax free in an off shore account and the slowly pull out the prinicpal and pay the taxes when the money becomes liquid. You can't do this.

What would have been legal, is if Penske would have paid him for a five year contract over a 10-year period. That's not uncommon and other athletes do it. But by Helio receiving the money from Penske, directing where it went, and investing it, he triggered taxes when he received it. The fact he hasn't spent any of the money yet is immateral.

[MDS]

Well, it looks like we'll have an answer soon. The jury is due to get the case Thursday or Friday. I'm not sure if they will deliberate on Good Friday though.


MIAMI (AP) — Testimony is over in the Miami tax evasion trial of Brazilian race car driver Helio Castroneves.
Closing arguments are scheduled for Thursday, followed by jury deliberations. Castroneves, his sister and his lawyer are charged with conspiracy and tax evasion involving about $5.5 million in income between 1999 and 2004.
The Internal Revenue Service says Castroneves owes more than $2.3 million in U.S. taxes for those years. Defense lawyers say Castroneves did nothing wrong and will pay taxes when a deferred compensation deal comes due in May.
The two-time Indianapolis 500 winner has already missed the first race of the IndyCar Series season. Castroneves is also known for his 2007 victory on TV's "Dancing With The Stars" competition.

[beachgirl]

And wouldn't it be absolutely fascinating if the verdict came down on Tax Day?

[NickFalzone]

That's not entirely accurate.

Helio hasn't received any of the money yet because he chose to invest it with Fintage. Penske paid the money, on time, to Fintage. If Penske had held on to the money until May there wouldn't be an issue, but since Penske paid out the money Helio should have paid taxes on the money since that contract has been run out.


I'm have a somewhat similar situation. I live off of salary my company pays me, however I have ownership stakes in two other enterprises and I do some consulting work on the side. All of the income from my other jobs are invested in series of different investments, and I have never accessed the money and I can't spend most of it at the moment.

One salary in particular gets dumped into a mutual fund that I am locked out of for a number of years before I can draw that money. It's the exact same situation as Helio, only I pay taxes on the money when I earn it not when the account becomes due.

Essentially what Helio is trying to do is take his entire paycheck, invest it, let the entire sum grow tax free in an off shore account and the slowly pull out the prinicpal and pay the taxes when the money becomes liquid. You can't do this.

What would have been legal, is if Penske would have paid him for a five year contract over a 10-year period. That's not uncommon and other athletes do it. But by Helio receiving the money from Penske, directing where it went, and investing it, he triggered taxes when he received it. The fact he hasn't spent any of the money yet is immateral.


I believe that Helio is guilty. However, everything that you said above is beside the point IF is it believed by the jury that Helio did not KNOWINGLY break tax laws with his deferred income deal. Regardless of what the law IS, if the defense can convince the jury that Helio was either given bad information or simply made a mistake in his deferment plan, and did not make significant efforts to try and break the law, then he may very well get off. Again, that's the difference with tax law. Not following the tax code due to ignorance is not a crime, as has been decided in many cases before Helio's. I personally believe that he knows more than the defense has presented, but the jury does have a real decision on their hands that goes beyond did he or did he not do it.

[Wade91]

i think it really sucks that he cant race right now just becouse the govermeant is so greedy!

[beachbum]

i think it really sucks that he cant race right now just becouse the govermeant is so greedy!Sorry, the greed is on the other side. Look at it this way. Like most of us, you probably work hard for your income. You are often irritated that the government makes you pay taxes. But if you are like almost all people, you pay the taxes. You may even have a retirement plan, which is a form of deferred income plan.

Now, you next door neighbor has arrived from another country, makes millions of dollars a year, lives in a big house, and is popular in the neighborhood. Some of his income went into a deferred plan, but the government alleges he sent a lot of additional income into some offshore companies, eventually sending much of it into a Swiss bank account. Somehow he "forgot" to pay taxes on that money or even mention it to the government.

My neighbor may be a nice guy, but has sure abused our country's hospitality. Frankly, I would be royally pi**ed if I had a neighbor like that. I work too hard for what I have to sit back and watch someone else avoid the responsibilities I take seriously.

Anyone taking advantage of the protections and benefits afforded a legal alien in our society also has to meet the responsibilities as well. It is not up to them to decide which laws they want to follow and which they can ignore.

[Jag_Warrior]

i think it really sucks that he cant race right now just becouse the govermeant is so greedy!

I think the reason twinkle toes isn't racing is because he was so greedy.

If he found that he wouldn't be able to follow the laws of the United States, he either shouldn't have come here or he should have left when that revelation hit him.

[Wade91]

well, i'm a big target chip ganassi racing fan, so it would be easy for me to really be againest helio here sence penske is kinda the enime, but i just dont see how i can take the govermeants side in this deal, becouse obbveasly they are they are just mad becouse thay didn't get some of the money that helio went out on the track and worked hard for, but the govermeant has ALWAYS been sitting arount doing nothing but just racking in all that money that other people worked hard for, :rolleyes: and why should helio have moved back out of this country? other countrys have govermeant and govermeant is all the same, becouse they love to show how much better they are then everbody else, the thing is, this country has alot of people in it becouse its a great place to live, and i'm speaking from exspirence, i was born and raised here, but like in every other country the greedy people are on top, spending other peoples hard earned money to blow up the middle east :rolleyes: though i doubt they are really struggling without that money from helio

good luck to helio in his trial

[beachbum]

well, i'm a big target chip ganassi racing fan, so it would be easy for me to really be againest helio here sence penske is kinda the enime, but i just dont see how i can take the govermeants side in this deal, becouse obbveasly they are they are just mad becouse thay didn't get some of the money that helio went out on the track and worked hard for, but the govermeant has ALWAYS been sitting arount doing nothing but just racking in all that money that other people worked hard for, :rolleyes: and why should helio have moved back out of this country? other countrys have govermeant and govermeant is all the same, becouse they love to show how much better they are then everbody else, the thing is, this country has alot of people in it becouse its a great place to live, and i'm speaking from exspirence, i was born and raised here, but like in every other country the greedy people are on top, spending other peoples hard earned money to blow up the middle east :rolleyes: though i doubt they are really struggling without that money from helio

good luck to helio in his trial
You wrote this as satire, right?

[DanicaFan]

All the closing arguments are over now in Helio's trial. Prosecutors say the three used an offshore company in an intricate plot to avoid taxes. The defense lawyers say Castroneves paid all U.S. taxes he owed and left his finances to advisors while he focused on winning races.

The jury was in deliberations for 2 1/2 hours today and no verdict was made. They will resume again on Monday.

Im hoping they find him not guilty and he can back in that race car where he belongs.

[Jag_Warrior]

You wrote this as satire, right?

Wade's post made me think of a line from that "great American classic", Ferris Bueller's Day Off:

"I weep for the future."

What next, a pity post for the boys & girls from AIG who are having to give back some of their bonuses? If Castroneves can't follow the laws of the U.S., he can carry his dancing azz back to Brazil, as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if he drives for Penske or Ferrari. What does that have to do with the price of cheese in China?

[Gluaistean]

I've been following the coverage of Helio's trail closely, but obviously as someone whose not in the courtroom I'm not privy to a lot of details I'd like to know. But what I keep coming back to is this:

The defense theory is this... That Helio never intended to keep most of the money, rather his plan was to hand it over to his father for covering the costs of his early racing career. Okay, I get that, but if that's the case, and paying back his father was a priority, why would you ask your father to wait nearly a decade before getting a payback?

What sense does it make to say "Dad, I want to pay you back, but first lets put the money into an offshore account, where it will collect interest for a decade, and once I start receiving the money, that I'll still have to pay taxes on then, I'll pay you back."

How does that make any sense? If paying Helio's father back was a priority, wouldn't he, you know, have paid him back by now?

Also, how could Helio possibly think it would be legal to take untaxed income that he was awarded contractually, put it in an offshore account, where it would grow without paying interest for almost 10 years, before he would have to count it as income? Whether you cash your paycheck or not it's still income that you earned, and you still have to pay tax on it. What Helio, or his lawyers, attempted to do is to invest the withholding from his paycheck, earn investment revenue off of it for 10 years, and then pay the government, if he didn't leave the country before then.

Honestly, the more I read about the case, the more the government's theory looks true. Everyone knows that drivers careers could be cut short, and doing the deal with Fintage, if his career had ended last year, he could have moved to Monaco, which he has stated he might do, and not paid any US taxes.

The only way that Helio's defense makes any kind of sense is if you figured he planned on having a long career, and could live off the endorsements he made working for Penske and that his father's good health would continue for the next decade or longer, so that paying him back would come at a good time in his father's life.

MDS, the father according to Helio set up the account but not for his payment. His payment as far as I know was to come from the other deals Helio made with personal sponsors (I forget the names). The lack of tax paid on the money by these sponsors may be more damaging than the money paid by Penske.

Apparently, he received two million over three or four years. Declared income of $60,000 and had most of the funds diverted back to the sponsors. So, if he is charged here and is sent to prison the belief is that he will also get caught up in Brazil for diverting funds in order to avoid paying taxes.

Then there are the corporate jet deals where he did not declare that he was flying in corporate jets without paying. Now, that one I don't understand. Does a passenger owe the government money if you give them a ride?

[Mark in Oshawa]

i think it really sucks that he cant race right now just becouse the govermeant is so greedy!

Youth is wasted on the young...and apparently spelling lessons too.

The thing about the whole Helio thing is that if it was just a case of him not paying taxes with some shady manager and hustler who turned state's evidence on him to get a lighter sentence, I would feel the whole deal was a scam but that isnt' what is happening here.

Miller is a respectable guy, and Alexmateo's version of hypothesis of the events after Moore's death ( Moore would have stayed in Canada and paid more to RevCan than the IRS) makes sense. It also makes sense that a manager/money man like Miller would be careful about tax evasion, because with clients like Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson, he had too much to lose. Yet the IRS and US Prosecutors rarely are wrong on this sort of thing. So us, the humble race fans and occaisional visitors to a Holiday Inn Express are left wondering are they guilty as hell or just naive and stupid? I am torn.

I am like Jag, I believe not much mercy for tax cheats, but then I look at Obama putting one in head of the IRS and I wonder what the heck the point is?

I like Helio, but I think he knew at some level he might have been getting by with something. If he wasn't, it wouldn't be the first time someone was naive to a crime being committed. The whole crux of guilt to me though has to go through Miller. There was NO upside for him to set up a deal for Helio to beat the IRS when he has so much invested in this business. That is where I guess I feel Helio, Sis and the agent should walk. The State in my mind hasn't proven motive well enough and there is an element of doubt to me on guilt.

[MDS]

Then there are the corporate jet deals where he did not declare that he was flying in corporate jets without paying. Now, that one I don't understand. Does a passenger owe the government money if you give them a ride?

I could be wrong on this, but flying on a corporate jet doesn't count as income if you're traveling for business purposes. I also think you can receive those flights as a gift, and that's okay too. Where I think it crosses the line into income is when someone has a jet, or a car and driver, at your disposal as part of a compensation package.

[Gluaistean]

I could be wrong on this, but flying on a corporate jet doesn't count as income if you're traveling for business purposes. I also think you can receive those flights as a gift, and that's okay too. Where I think it crosses the line into income is when someone has a jet, or a car and driver, at your disposal as part of a compensation package.

MDS, that makes sense.

[Wade91]

clearly Heilo was just minding his own bussiness and got victimized by a stupid law, thats why even though i'm not a Penske fan, (i'm a ganassi fan) i dont like seeing him out of his car

[garyshell]

i dont like seeing him out of his car


Or using punctuation and the shift key.

Gary

[DanicaFan]

The defense for Helio Castroneves has filed for a mistrial. The defense counsel objected to trying the case by one set of instructions and then, they contend, have inconsistencies or changes with Tuesday's instructions to the 12 jurors.

Depending on the judge's decision reference the mistrial, the jury deliberations will go on Wednesday morning at 8am.

[DanicaFan]

The latest on the trial...

The attorneys for Helio Castroneves lost their motion for a mistrial Wednesday but they did succeed in getting U.S. district Judge Donald Graham to amend his instructions to the jury on a couple of key issues.

Judge Graham denied their motion Wednesday but agreed to change the language of the following terms. Instead of calling Roger Penske the employer and Castroneves the employee, the jury was told to refer to Penske as the payor and Seven Promotions as the payee.

They say if Helio is acquitted in time, he has a ticket to Los Angeles Friday morning and will be in a car for Penske for the Long Beach race. Im hoping this happens.

[beachgirl]

They say if Helio is acquitted in time, he has a ticket to Los Angeles Friday morning and will be in a car for Penske for the Long Beach race. Im hoping this happens.

And who is "they"? His attorneys? The press? Penske? Helio?