Is Hirvonen driving too conservatively? [Archive]

jens

12th February 2007, 18:32

It's tough to bring out my exact thought.

Anyway, Mikko is losing at least 1-2 minutes to Marcus in every rally and he rarely driver makes errors. Can he be faster and closer to Marcus or in such sparse competition he just wants to play it safe (unlike Atkinson) to finish in the points?

For example last year at Mexico he was fighting against Grönholm and then went off. And in 2005, when he was a privateer and he had to show himself, he was quick on a couple of rallies (Argentina - 3rd before retirement).

But if he wants to become a serious title contender, he needs to start pushing more on the limit and start or at least try to start fighting for the wins?

Tomi

12th February 2007, 18:39

Well Mikko is doing a normal 2 drivers job (a dogs job) it is to do good finishes and collect much points possible without taking big risks, it looks pathetic or conservative but thats how it is, im sure he can go faster on loose (but not as fast as Loeb or Bosse yet)
But usually the second drivers moment comes sooner or later, it's just to be patient and wait, and take the chance when it comes.

Corny

12th February 2007, 19:28

At the moment, there are only 2 drivers that can make mistakes, that are Marcus and Sebastien.. All the others are killed immediatly when they make mistakes

Finni

12th February 2007, 19:28

Mikko just happens to be much slower than Grönholm. Fight with Marcus would probably take him out of road as it happened in GB. And in Sweden his objective was to challenge Loeb or even win (so he said) which means that there is no excuses for lower pace. Also in Finland last year he was driving on edge (according to his own words) but he lost to grönholm clearly - though not as clearly as in other rallies.

2005 he was doing some nice stage times but it should be noted that he finnished rallies only 3 min behind leader. I don't see that it's better than his current pace, quite contrary. If Grönholm had driven old Focus instead of Gardemaister in 2005 then Mikko wouldn't have look so good.

FabiaFan

12th February 2007, 19:36

Donney

12th February 2007, 19:49

I think he is doing a great job as a second driver and that means he has to settle for third if the top dogs finish the rally.

Magnus

12th February 2007, 19:50

Hirvonen is still young, and I think he made a really good effort in Sweden. Naturally he is not as fast as Bosse, but his time will come!
His year with Subaru was very important for his career, he has learned a lot from his mistakes, and now have a very mature approach, it seems. His mistakes are not that many nowadays as they used to be. Remeber the mickey mouse incident in Finland 2005... :s

jonas_mcrae

12th February 2007, 19:52

Remember the start of the last season??? A few finishes, Wilson was for sure not happy about it... so he calmed down... unlike Duval a year ago... and did the right thing!!! He had a series of solid finishes.
Maybe, the exception was Australia and his fight with Solberg... The vision of a win was too attractive ;-) Richards played this card ("Hirvonen must drive safe to secure points for the manufacturer championship"), but didn't succeed :-D

Excelent post he calmed down did the right thing and secured the seat, Duval lost it, Gigi could learn somethings from him, or is it that he is lives in the edge? LOL, although you could say that hirvo had a hard learning experience from subaru and didnt want the same to happen again? he was very lucky to get the chance again

StevieWonder

12th February 2007, 19:53

for all fans of mikko:
http://www.hirvonen-fanclub.com

hopefully we see you in norway !

Tomi

12th February 2007, 20:01

Gigi could learn somethings from him

I think he already knows, you will see a different gigi in Norway i guess.

koko0703

12th February 2007, 20:04

I think Mikko is doing fine job. He's just not those exciting do-or-die drivers like Colin, Macus, Petter, and Atkinson. Rather his approach is similar to Carlos and Burns, and who knows??? Mikko can be serious title contender since both Carlos and Burns did have excellent career with titles under the belt.

L5->R5/CR

12th February 2007, 20:18

Mikko is doing what the team demands of him.

Being the first of the "also rans". As long as Marcus is in the rally it will be Mikko's job to make sure Ford scores as many manufacturers points as possible. We have seen that he is probably the fastest after Marcus and Seb, both by his string of thirds, his stage wins, and rally Australia.

He is being smart and building a relationship with Ford so that when, not if, Marcus retires Mikko will be at the top of the list for the number one. There are very few drivers that have the freedom to go out and drive for wins. I think Mikko is doing exactly what he needs to be doing at this point in his career and will be rewarded for it later. Remember, there are only three drivers who can justify their role and their pace to their teams if they crash, that is Seb, Marcus, and Petter. Everybody else needs to make it to the end without SuperRally.

The days of a teams second driver getting to go out and attack and crash as long as they are pushing are long gone. Mikko is showing a lot of maturity that will only help him when he gets his chance to go for broke. To ask a number 2 driver to win rallies when the team's number one is in the rally is silly in this era of rallying.

A.F.F.

12th February 2007, 20:23

While Finni remember to support all but Finn drivers, god for bit Tomi speaks how it is.

It's true Mikko isn't as fast as Marcus. Will he ever be, is to be seen. But, he has developed faster, and most important, consistent every year. The fact is that he is the second driver of Ford team and his role is strict and clear. To secure as much possible manufacturer points because Mr.Loeb is too dangerous for Marcus alone.

There will be a day when Mikko is allowed to let it all out. It'll be interesting to see how is the WRC world then, and how fast Mikko will be. Until then, Mikko should drive exactly like Mr. Wilson tells him to drive.

cyd

12th February 2007, 20:42

Just out of curiosity, have any teammates with identical cars ever run identical times consistently?

Tomi

12th February 2007, 20:50

Just out of curiosity, have any teammates with identical cars ever run identical times consistently?

In the past many times but then also the order often came sooner or later, I remember best the big fights in 1000 Lakes Mikkola/Blomqvist with Audi Quattro.
I remember Markku Alen also once told that when the team was worried that he would not wait for his teammate, they landed a chopter in front of him on the stage, and made him wait that way.

WRCfan

13th February 2007, 04:00

I didnt know about the helicopter!!! amazing. I think Mikko is under team orders, Marcus is desperate for the WRC crown this year so Mikko will be on the leash all season, as long as Marcus is out in front Mikko will play the runner up. However I think it is good as he has only just got this works drive(full season), the first since the Subaru drive after his disastrous season. Look what it has done for his image, playing second fiddle to Marcus. hes got so much more respect and is enjoying himself I'm sure, he got his first win and a 3rd in Finland.

I think he has more in reserves although is playing along well with what is wanted of him. Good on him, hes got plenty of time to take the crown which i think will happen before he bows out of WRC into retirement.

GigiGalliNo1

13th February 2007, 04:53

Mikko isn't as suprizing as he was last year and with a win or the year before (top contender in an old focus) but it's only been two rounds and he did well, a podium in Sweden.

Karukera

13th February 2007, 09:16

You won't see the real Hirvonen as long as he has a Ford leash preventing him from pushing his own way. A 1, 2 or 3 min gap with Marcus is nothing significant in that respect. :)

JAM

13th February 2007, 09:22

I wont't call "conservatively", i would call "under team orders". He is the second driver and his role is well defined and that's what he has to do. And had done well in these two rallyes.

13th February 2007, 10:16

yeah, he is doing everything the team is telling him, he is getting points and eventually, when Gronholm retires, guess who will be #1?? ;)

Helstar

13th February 2007, 11:30

Just out of curiosity, have any teammates with identical cars ever run identical times consistently?
Lately I remember Duval/Martin on Ford 2004, Galli/Rovampera on Mitsu 2005 and in spite of all Carlsson/Galli on private Mitsu - Sweden 2006 :D

yeah, he is doing everything the team is telling him, he is getting points and eventually, when Gronholm retires, guess who will be #1?? ;)
LOEB ! LOL
You wanted to say #1 in Ford ;) I know eheh

Ranger

13th February 2007, 11:34

I'd say he isn't. He's driving a fair way within his limits and being conservative in the process.

Though I'm still inclined to think that he wouldn't be very close to Gronholm if he did go flat-out.

GigiGalliNo1

13th February 2007, 11:49

Wasn't there a seat with Ford for Galli not so long ago but he did not take it?

WRC2006

13th February 2007, 12:37

As the second driver, his job description is clear and untill at the moment he is doing his job 100% and I am sure Wilson is pleased with that.

Unless Marcus or Loeb make a mistake or have technical problems with their cars, otherwise Mikko has an order to score maximum points for the team.

Soon Marcus will retire, Guess who will be in good position to be N0 1 at Ford? So he has to work on this in scoring more points for the team and gaining more experince to fight with Loeb after Marcus.

He is doing his job well.

DonJippo

13th February 2007, 13:26

Wasn't there a seat with Ford for Galli not so long ago but he did not take it?

He did not have the money to take it.

Helstar

13th February 2007, 14:40

He did not have the money to take it.
Not true, it's not a question of money he was offered a 'free' seat as a second driver ... but Gigi wanted to stay loyal to Mitsu so he refused.
And we all know how that ended ...

AlfaWRC

13th February 2007, 14:50

Mikko's job is not easy at all.

Malcom just wants him to score good points for the manufacturers title. His job is beating Dani. And Marcus' job is beating Sebastian.

On the other hand Mikko who is a sportsman isn't happy until he can fight Marcus & Sebastian on the stages. He knows that he must learn how to win rallyes (his words).

And balancing those two different goals on the stages out there is not an easy thing at all. So sometimes he has to shift his on goals backwards. Unfortunately... But I think the way he deals with those two different goals is fantastic.

PS: You can imagine that Malcom was not that amused after his crash in Mexico last year. There he had the speed of the front runners but went off. After some "friendly interventions" from Malcom after this event he finds himself in the position where he is (that is surely better than Francois: isn't it?!)

Now I have to finish my post, as my flight to Norway will take off soon ;-)
See you there guyes!

PS: And don't forget to join the Fanclub

newaddict

13th February 2007, 20:36

i have seen him fight for lower positions- good battles- aggressive driving-impressive some of them

times that seemed close to front runners and some stage wins during these battles (front runners backing off- i know)

i bet he has the speed to move up closer- much closer

but the question is can he maintain the concentration, etc. to run, that hard, that long, with the big guns to be there after 3 days without the "big mistakes"

cyd

13th February 2007, 22:43

I hate team orders. It's really not a true result then, is it? I can understand Citroen's displeasure with Duval awhile back, but Mikko has been doing alot better. If Marcus is actually faster, then fine, but I don't think they should tell Mikko to slow down.

Actually, I've been told it's harder to drive more conservatively.

Finni

13th February 2007, 23:12

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 01:59

Not true, it's not a question of money he was offered a 'free' seat as a second driver ... but Gigi wanted to stay loyal to Mitsu so he refused.
And we all know how that ended ...

With a Pug! :D

Now back to Mikko, he will shine when Marcus retires and ummm but if he is told like as he was told in GB 06', he's there to have a good drive, no pressure, he crashed and I don't want to see him doing that, being able to drive flat out and take risks. Keep him on the safe side and let him continue to learn! :)

WRCfan

14th February 2007, 04:06

Good call, hes doing a damn fine job now, give him some time to bed into the WRC works team world properly. Atkinson has been in Subaru for 2 years now and has bedded in nicely, although in the time Mikko has been at Ford he's done a far superior job. Keep him going on as he is and within years hes going to be a world champion.

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 04:15

he's done a far superior job.

Good call :)

Think Mikko will shine this year!

L5->R5/CR

14th February 2007, 04:16

It's getting ridiculing. Is it so difficult to believe that Hirvonen might not be different to Rovanperä or Burns who were constantly slower than Grönholm? Hirvonen has came only twice near to Grönholm's pace (when Marcus' has engaged to push) and it resulted correspondingly two offs (Mexico and GB's first stage). Normally, even when Grönholm is driving in his safe mode he is setting faster times as in Sweden when Marcus had safe lead and Mikko was still in fight with Henning Solberg.

If Mikko pushes very hardly he is 0.30-2.30 min slower than Grönholm -> depending on nature of particular rally.

And I don't still get it how Mikko was ordered in Sweden? His pre-event objective was to fight against Loeb - the unfulfilled task.

Being ordered to not take any big risks is different than being ordered to not challenge for the win. I personally think Mikko is under team orders to not take any big risks (ie make sure he can score points) and Marcus is under the impression to do whatever he can to win. Mikko isn't being ordered to not go fast, just not take risks. He is still learning how to go fast and not take too many risks. Because as you pointed out when he has free reign he tries to do too much and crashes. I'm not saying he could be faster than Marcus or Seb, Mikko is just under owners to finish.

Finni

14th February 2007, 10:32

Being ordered to not take any big risks is different than being ordered to not challenge for the win. I personally think Mikko is under team orders to not take any big risks (ie make sure he can score points) and

Last year in Finland Mikko said that he had absolute free hands to push and what it resulted? I also think that if Malcolm Wilson wisheed that Mikko will fight against Loeb in snow rallies it does mean proper pushing - not playing safe.

jens

14th February 2007, 10:36

Last year in Finland Mikko said that he had absolute free hands to push and what it resulted? I also think that if Malcolm Wilson wisheed that Mikko will fight against Loeb in snow rallies it does mean proper pushing - not playing safe.

Interesting point.

Also this year at Monte Carlo. Hirvonen had to fight with Atkinson till the end, at the same time Grönholm just had to keep his position during the second half of the rally. Still Mikko finished a full minute behind the team leader.

In current competition it is possible to lose by 1-2 minutes and still get a decent result, but in the tight competiton we had for example in 2003, Mikko would have been in trouble with current pace. Then all the point finishers were often only within 3 minutes. Mikko's true capability and ability would come out in tighter competition or in a car, with which it's not so easy to "just play it safe" and still finish on the rostrum - at the moment it's hard to say, how good he actually is. I'd say that the small number of competitive cars has made him to look so good.

JAM

14th February 2007, 10:51

Interesting point.

Also this year at Monte Carlo. Hirvonen had to fight with Atkinson till the end, at the same time Grönholm just had to keep his position during the second half of the rally. Still Mikko finished a full minute behind the team leader.

In current competition it is possible to lose by 1-2 minutes and still get a decent result, but in the tight competiton we had for example in 2003, Mikko would have been in trouble with current pace. Then all the point finishers were often only within 3 minutes. Mikko's true capability and ability would come out in tighter competition or in a car, with which it's not so easy to "just play it safe" and still finish on the rostrum - at the moment it's hard to say, how good he actually is. I'd say that the small number of competitive cars has made him to look so good.

Very interesting view.

DonJippo

14th February 2007, 10:55

It's getting ridiculing. Is it so difficult to believe that Hirvonen might not be different to Rovanperä or Burns who were constantly slower than Grönholm? Hirvonen has came only twice near to Grönholm's pace (when Marcus' has engaged to push) and it resulted correspondingly two offs (Mexico and GB's first stage). Normally, even when Grönholm is driving in his safe mode he is setting faster times as in Sweden when Marcus had safe lead and Mikko was still in fight with Henning Solberg.

If Mikko pushes very hardly he is 0.30-2.30 min slower than Grönholm -> depending on nature of particular rally.

And I don't still get it how Mikko was ordered in Sweden? His pre-event objective was to fight against Loeb - the unfulfilled task.

Is it too difficult to understand that Mikko is not paid by Ford to beat Marcus? And to beat Seb? Well there is no other than Marcus currently in the series that can do that and even he can do it only on loose stuff on a good day.

Concerning Sweden when exactly did Marcus drive on safe mode other than on Sunday and on that day there was no fight anymore between Henning and Mikko.

Anyway being #3 in WRC is not bad in my books conservative or not :D

A.F.F.

14th February 2007, 11:36

Mikko has admitted Monte Carlo is the weakest run for him in the calendar. That added to his tyre choise problems made too far from the lead. When Mikko finally lost fourth place to Atkinson, he blamed none other than himslef, not for loosing the last special stage, but letting the situation to the point he had to rally for it against someone.

After Monte it's all for the better for Mikko. But wtf am I telling you this. Like in the past, you'll see by the end of the season.

Finni

14th February 2007, 12:25

Is it too difficult to understand that Mikko is not paid by Ford to beat Marcus? And to beat Seb? Well there is no other than Marcus currently in the series that can do that and even he can do it only on loose stuff on a good day.

So, if Hirvonen in one day would get skills of definitive top-driver would Malcolm happily put him drive like Burns in his Peugeot days? Are you saying that Malcolm is happier with one championship contender than with the two?

Tomi

14th February 2007, 12:35

So, if Hirvonen in one day would get skills of definitive top-driver would Malcolm happily put him drive like Burns in his Peugeot days? Are you saying that Malcolm is happier with one championship contender than with the two?

Dont you understand that first driver fights for drivers championship and second secure much manu points as possible, without taking any big risks??

Finni

14th February 2007, 13:13

Dont you understand that first driver fights for drivers championship and second secure much manu points as possible, without taking any big risks??

But driving like a top-driver (Loeb, Grönholm and Solberg) Hirvonen would secure more points for the team and their battle for personal championships wouldn't be depending only on one single card.

Tomi

14th February 2007, 13:30

But driving like a top-driver (Loeb, Grönholm and Solberg) Hirvonen would secure more points for the team and their battle for personal championships wouldn't be depending only on one single card.

Have you tought for instance how many more points Ford would have got more if Mikko would have beaten Loeb in Sweden? Loeb gave up on sat, and started to drive on Mikkos splits, what would have happen if Mikko would have started to attack, Loeb would have had to drive faster, same thing with Bosse. The risks for something to happen rises when the speed rises, now Sordo was a day behind and Ford got almost maximum poins, the fact is that only a fool would have attacked and risked it all.

COD

14th February 2007, 14:49

when Gronholm retires, guess who will be #1?? ;)

Ford will need a winning driver if Marcus retires. And Mikko is not one. So who will Fords Nr.1 be then??????

L5->R5/CR

14th February 2007, 15:47

Ford will need a winning driver if Marcus retires. And Mikko is not one. So who will Fords Nr.1 be then??????

I agree that Mikko is not a winning driver yet, but who knows what the future will hold (and who the heck is available that is currently better?)?

I think being under orders to do whatever he pleases pace wise as long as he finishes is forcing a level of maturity to his driving. I truly believe that there have only been two times where Mikko was given free reign last year, Mexico and GB. He always says he will try to beat or match Marcus, and in the rally he always lets slip that he isn't allowed to take any big risks.

I never meant to give the idea that Mikko is ordered to go slow, I am of the opinion he is on the order to finish, and potentially contradictingly, finish well. By learning how to not take huge risks or drive out of his pants and be closer to Loeb and Bosse he might actually develop those last drops of speed that define the big boys from the also rans. Right now I don't know if Mikko could be a #1 in a contending team, but he is learning and maturing, and further more he has a good leader in the team he can attempt to utilize for advice and a nice long contract as long as he keeps delivering.

FabiaFan

14th February 2007, 17:24

yeah, he is doing everything the team is telling him, he is getting points and eventually, when Gronholm retires, guess who will be #1?? ;) Toni again?!?

A.F.F.

14th February 2007, 18:54

Toni again?!?

Sure, why not, but only if Wilson wants to trade apples to apples.

newaddict

14th February 2007, 21:03

two days of running at restrained pace and one day (about) running against someone for a position- then taking that and trying to compare it to an overall three day rally time against the top two drivers- kinda not fair to say he is 2 mins. slower.

i am not saying he is as fast as the big two- but i think right at this moment he is "faster" then some of the overall rally times suggest.

hope to see him in the future fighting for the big spots.- maybe- maybe not.

Finni

14th February 2007, 22:05

but i think right at this moment he is "faster" then some of the overall rally times suggest.

That sounds like a fair statement. I was only against those posters who are reducing almost whole pace-gap between Mikko and top-three by appealing to different driving philosophies.

COD

15th February 2007, 13:07

DonJippo

15th February 2007, 13:13

How can he become a winning driver, if can not even post a single fastest time in Sweden, despite having to fight for position with Henning in older car? Even Galli in a Xsara could post a fastest stage time

Still he managed to beat him in final results in case you have not noticed it and Henning's car was not older, it's in same specs.

COD

15th February 2007, 13:39

Still he managed to beat him in final results in case you have not noticed it and Henning's car was not older, it's in same specs.

Of course I noticed. And M2 teams can not drive same specs cars as M1's. And why on earth would Ford even give the same specs car? Come'on

WRC2006

15th February 2007, 13:55

When will you understand that the principal mission for him is to score maximum points for ford not to show what he is capable and not for the Driver title?

Do you imagine at least how pressure and stress on him by staying in contact with the top 3 Guys, not make a mistake, score maximum points and keep and controll all other Guys behind him? Don't you think this is enough for him now?

For me, I agree that Marcus and Loeb are the owners of the number 1 and 2 in WRC now and they are in their own class. So the rest of the Guys there are fighting starting on 3rd position. And Mikko is almost the owner of this position since the mid-season last year. Don't you think that he is doing his job in style now?

Whoever tried to fight for Marcus and Loeb in last fews rallies, always went off and loose everything. See what happened to Petter in Sweden or others. On tarmarc and maybe on gravel, only Sordo who can challenge those Guys but also he has to be under instruction like Mikko, to score points first for the team before Driver title.

DonJippo

15th February 2007, 14:00

Of course I noticed. And M2 teams can not drive same specs cars as M1's. And why on earth would Ford even give the same specs car? Come'on

There are no more M1 and M2 teams, rules have changed for this year, therefore Henning's car is in same specs as Mikko's and Bosse's untill new homogolation version comes out later this year. Rules are available for all to review over here http://www.fia.com

WRC2006

15th February 2007, 14:03

Of course I noticed. And M2 teams can not drive same specs cars as M1's. And why on earth would Ford even give the same specs car? Come'on

Didn't you know that there is no longer M1 and M2?!

Now we have Manufacturer Cars (old M1) and Manufacturer Team (old M2)
but both are allowed to score points in Manufacturer Championship under the new regulations. That why for the same specs cars.

A.F.F.

15th February 2007, 14:31

How can he become a winning driver, if can not even post a single fastest time in Sweden, despite having to fight for position with Henning in older car? Even Galli in a Xsara could post a fastest stage time

Mikko did what was asked. Beating Henning didn't require fastest time :D

WRC2006

15th February 2007, 14:55

Mikko did what was asked. Beating Henning didn't require fastest time :D

I love this!!!!! Haaaaaa!!!!!

COD

15th February 2007, 15:15

Beating Henning didn't require fastest time :D d

It never does. :D

whatever the names of the teams are now, do you really think that "customer team" gets exactly same cars than Manu team? dream on...

Besides, how much you really know about Ford's homologation:

) A Manufacturer Team cannot enter World
Rally Cars homologated during the year 2007
and cannot use parts homologated after 2
January 2007.

DonJippo

15th February 2007, 15:41

Besides, how much you really know about Ford's homologation:

) A Manufacturer Team cannot enter World
Rally Cars homologated during the year 2007
and cannot use parts homologated after 2
January 2007.

Only what is on FIA documents on this page http://www.fia.com/sport/Homologations/homol_vehicles.html and as you can see no new version on this year yet nor any new parts after 1.1.2007.

Roy

15th February 2007, 21:57

The Focus who is used by Stobart, Munchi's and BP-Ford are the same type WRC 06. Gronholm and hirvonnen drives in a new focus this year. They are little bit changed, but that is very few. The oldest Focus WRC is the car of Raies and MacHale. The cars are (almost) the same.
Later this year we can see the Focus WRC 07. That will be an update like the WRC 04 that was for 03.

Back to topic.
Hirvonen is best of the rest. (But on tarmac there are others). Hirvonen will show his speed already. He is a big fighter and get a free drive from Malcom. This year is not necessary that Hirvonen will be save. We will see Hirvonen see fight for a good podium place. Offcouse it will be difficult, because Gronholm and Loeb are very diffcult. But Hirvonen is a fast driver after them. Maybe the most fastest AND consistent driver.
I say this earlier: this year we see a fighter and not a conservative driver. In Monaco he drives on tarmac, not his surface and in Sweden at day one he had problems. After that he was in fight for a place with Gardemeister. Fight with 1 and 2 was not possible. That gap was to big allready. That would be stupid if he had try.

Read the opinion of Hirvonen self at his website.
(down this page)
http://www.mikkohirvonen.com/news070121.php

WRC2006

16th February 2007, 11:22

Please follow what he is doing now in Norway?

He is leading the rally after SS3. He is aware of this thread and answering to all our questions?!! Haaaaa!!!!

Hope he stays on road!!!!

White Sauron

16th February 2007, 12:06

Please follow what he is doing now in Norway?

He is leading the rally after SS3. He is aware of this thread and answering to all our questions?!! Haaaaa!!!!

Hope he stays on road!!!!

he will, no doubts. He learnt from Australia.

GigiGalliNo1

16th February 2007, 12:16

waatttt mikko is LEADING?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I wasn;t even paying attention to the top 2!! ahh my bad!! eekk

BDunnell

16th February 2007, 13:08

I'm sure that some of the people now saying Hirvonen's been driving too conservatively would have had a go at him for being too reckless if he'd been going flat out and crashing. For what it's worth, I think he's been doing a good job in 2007.

jens

16th February 2007, 13:38

Yep, Mikko has read this thread. :p :

GigiGalliNo1

16th February 2007, 13:50

Hello MikKo!!! :D Greeting from the fans club! :)

tmx

16th February 2007, 20:43

JAM

16th February 2007, 22:28

I wrote here some days ago that Mikko was doins his job as a second driver of the team. Maybe in Norway the second driver job is for Gronholm. Nice to see a young one making a fantastic leg as Mikko did.

newaddict

16th February 2007, 22:31

they are the same people who said "that why mikko will never win a rally".

i been in the past in about 20+ threads on whether Loeb would ever be a champion
-too young
-no experience
-etc.

it should be interesting to see Mikko develop-
I once again will go out on the limb and say he MAY have what it takes (long term) to become an icon of the sport.

but let's wait and see.

A.F.F.

16th February 2007, 22:37

No. Marcus still is the first driver. There has been a lot of discussion about possible team-orders. If the situation should maintain like it is, I have to agree with Mr.Mousefart and Tomi, there's no way Wilson would risk it in any way. Loeb is too close.

But if Marcus and Mikko should build a small gap to Loeb, then yes, I think Wilson would order Mikko to let Marcus pass which is IMO, and I believe for many other members here, a very unsportman like thing to do. I do remember a few years ago in Monte Carlo when Duval was second and Märtin third, Wilson ordered Duval to let Märtin pass him. So why not now? It's not like Marcus would have worse changes to win the championship than Mikko.. :mark:

Finni

17th February 2007, 11:53

I have to admit that it's getting obvious that Hirvonen can finnish within 30 sec to Marcus. Mikko is truelly driving race of his life.

COD

3rd June 2007, 21:58

Norway seems to have been the only place Mikko could shine. After that he has been his usuall lame self. And now that Sbaru has gotten better, ikko is falling to a medium no.2 driver at best. If Sordo hadn't had bad luck, Mikko would ahve finished 5th. With the best car in championship.

Finni

3rd June 2007, 22:11

I have to admit that I wrong when admitting being wrong after rally norway. Norway was obviously just exception.

I wouldn't be so certain that Ford is the car in the championship. Possibly in Greece but not overally. Sordo was actually so fast in Greece that I doubt that Citroen was second to any team even in this particular rally.

teufel

4th June 2007, 08:55

I felt after friday's leg, that Dani could beat Mikko in Greece, which was the biggest surprise for me this year!

AlfaWRC

4th June 2007, 09:44

You know that Mikko had a massive off on Saturday morning???!!!

janneppi

4th June 2007, 09:47

Mikko doesn't seem have the speed to compete against the big guns, he could have beaten Sordo by driving, but that really isn't enough.
After he dropped against Petter with the crash, all he had left was cruise to points.

jonas_mcrae

4th June 2007, 12:17

I think Mikos off in Greece really afected him for the rest of the day at least, not only because of the broken windshield, but becasue it was a very very scary off, lots of trees to hit luckly they didnt hit any of them (dont know how) I watched the Eurosport review and miko looked terrified after that

jens

4th June 2007, 12:26

If Ford's line-up for 2008 is going to be Hirvonen-Latvala, then what do you think, how would the team perform and which one of the drivers will be better?

jonas_mcrae

4th June 2007, 12:38

If marcus retires, Ford's 2008 lineup will be Hirvonen - Wilson Jr. LOL

DonJippo

4th June 2007, 13:26

If Ford's line-up for 2008 is going to be Hirvonen-Latvala...which one of the drivers will be better?

Hirvonen.

MikeD

4th June 2007, 14:01

pentti

4th June 2007, 16:58

In the past many times but then also the order often came sooner or later, I remember best the big fights in 1000 Lakes Mikkola/Blomqvist with Audi Quattro.
I remember Markku Alen also once told that when the team was worried that he would not wait for his teammate, they landed a chopter in front of him on the stage, and made him wait that way.I rember that one. Markku had some tecnical problems and was behind Miki Biason(Italia) both in Lacia S4 in Argentina 1986..The Lancia wanted Miki to have his first win.They asked Markku to slow down in the last stage but they realised he is not going to do just that,so they send a helicopter to hower in the front of him in the last stage. They could not dare to land knowing Markku so the chiaf mechanic Rino jumped out to try to calm a very hot finn. In the back round was Jean Todt in another chopter for Peugeout team with stop watch in his hand. The irony of that all is that Markku and Lancia lost world rally chamionship because this team order.

COD

4th June 2007, 21:18

Hirvonen.
With his experience he should be, but I wouldn't be so sure

Priorat

4th June 2007, 22:06

Mikko is doing very well the job he is asked to do but I wonder if this experience will be usefull if he becomes nº1 and has to fight for championships. IMO Sordo will be better prepared as he has the experience to fight the Spanish Tarmac championship and JWRC

Roy

5th June 2007, 18:24

Hirvonen's goal was this rally (Acropolis) win. This year he is free how fast he drive, the plan is follow Gronholm and Loeb. For so long, it is a step to far. Gronholm and Loeb are much faster.

I read some stuff here that Hirvonen is the second driver for Ford and must be finish liked last year. That WAS last year. Now his goals are higher, and it will be hard for him.

Tomi

5th June 2007, 18:47

This year he is free how fast he drive

From where did you pull this?

Roy

5th June 2007, 19:00

From where did you pull this?
You are right he hasn't a blind card. But he can in some rallies:
http://www.mikkohirvonen.com/news070121.php#kausipre
At the bottom of the page.

Hirvonen wants to step out from a role of an apprentice

Mikko Hirvonen rallied very good in season 2006 of WRC as personal bronze medal and Manufacturers Championship for Ford were a job of a professional rally driver. Naturally his goals are still higher.

– In season 2007 I have to be able to step out from a role of an apprentice. I must focus more for the things I'm doing for myself. I must be able to make bold decisions and trust my own opinions f.ex in setups, told Hirvonen before season opening round.

– I will challenge all drivers from now on. I want to improve my performance from last season, Mikko continues.

Malcolm Wilson, who is a team manager for Ford says that Mikko does not have his approval in all rallies to rally with maximum limit. Ford expexts to have secure rallying from Hirvonen due the reason of important manufacturers points.

– Mikko has developed a lot. In certain rallies he will attack, but we still need to remember, that he has to gain more experience from few events. We must sit down and discuss these matters, told Wilson.

Mikko aims to start each rally with maximum attack and see how rally goes after its' first leg.

– Actually I cannot name the rallies, which to enter as a victory in my mind. However in first leg there's no point to make strategic movements - we just need to rally flat out, Hirvonen thoughts.

What Mikko has to improve, so that his speed will be enough for challenging Marcus Grönholm and Sebastien Loeb?

– I lost most time for top drivers when the circumstances are difficult and various. Therefore I need to make more bold OWN decisions. Furthermore Marcus and Loeb can rally top speed for all three days. Maybe due the reason they have from the rallies. In each stage I must be able to rally just like them, Hirvonen says.

Woodeye

5th June 2007, 19:05

Hirvonen.

Latvala.

COD

5th June 2007, 21:51

From where did you pull this?

Maybe you know better, but he has said himself in numerous interviews that he is going for a win in many rallies this year. But as I said, maybe you know better what he can don than he does

Tomi

5th June 2007, 23:54

Maybe you know better, but he has said himself in numerous interviews that he is going for a win in many rallies this year. But as I said, maybe you know better what he can don than he does

well maybe i know maybe not, but i know for sure that if a guy has free hands the team would not make him drive test in middle of an wrc event for instance, also i know that its quite seldom that second drivers say their aim is to be the best of the second drivers even everyone who has followed this sport for sometime knows that thats second drivers job.

DonJippo

6th June 2007, 14:16

Latvala.

2008? No, in the future yes.

COD

6th June 2007, 22:15

Despite obvious lack of topspeed (which will be even more clear as Subaru get their act together), some people have a lot of faith in Mikko's talent. Good for them and Mikko, but I'm afraid they will be bitterly disapointed in the future

DonJippo

6th June 2007, 22:50

Despite obvious lack of topspeed (which will be even more clear as Subaru get their act together), some people have a lot of faith in Mikko's talent.

You mean lack of topspeed sameway like in Norway?

A.F.F.

6th June 2007, 23:58

Finni

7th June 2007, 00:08

Faith is really needed in that case (if thinking Mikko as definitive top-driver, not as Rovanperä-type but as Grönholm-type).

jparker

7th June 2007, 00:42

The way WRC works these days, there is room for 3 top drivers, and that makes this thread somehow irrelevant.

A.F.F.

7th June 2007, 08:09

IMO it has nothing to do with faith. It's simply how different we see things, that's all.

Tomi

7th June 2007, 11:02

Of the same driver generation as Mikko is, who is better at the moment???

jparker

7th June 2007, 15:18

Of the same driver generation as Mikko is, who is better at the moment???

Sordo :D

Tomi

7th June 2007, 15:30

Sordo :D

i mean seriously, i dont think there is anyone.

jparker

7th June 2007, 15:58

i mean seriously, i dont think there is anyone.
Which is kind of sad in a way.

Roy

7th June 2007, 15:59

Tomi

7th June 2007, 16:17

What do you mean his generation? I think Petter can match him. Like he sometimes do and Latvala is very close.

But his goal this year is to big. I had the idea he can be closer bij Loeb and Gronholm. Only one rally he was close and very fast. Norway was ulimate cool drive for Mikko. But the other rallies... He drive ok, but don't reach his goal.

i mean the generation who will be possible nr 1 drivers, after Loeb, Bosse and Petter finishes their carreers, 25-28 year old guys now, Petter is much older and Latvala much younger.

White Sauron

7th June 2007, 16:25

i mean the generation who will be possible nr 1 drivers, after Loeb, Bosse and Petter finishes their carreers, 25-28 year old guys now, Petter is much older and Latvala much younger.

Actually I always agree with you, but there... Ok, Gronholm is much older than Loeb. But it doesn't prevent them from performing on the same level.

COD

7th June 2007, 16:30

Of the same driver generation as Mikko is, who is better at the moment???

Sordo has 2-3 years less experience with WRC-cars. By next year he has gone past Hirvonen by miles me thinks

Tomi

7th June 2007, 17:07

By next year he has gone past Hirvonen by miles me thinks

I dont think that will happen, but after 1 year we see.

Finni

7th June 2007, 21:03

White Sauron

7th June 2007, 21:25

Mikko is driving his fifth FULL wrc-season and is still far from the top. I don't know any recent top-driver who would have need so long time to reach the top. Mikko might improve still but seriously is he driving at Loeb's or Grönholm's level ever? I wonder if he will.

Sordo is now driving his second wrc-season and was very near to Mikko's level in last gravel rally. To me it's only question of time when Sordo will reach Mikko's level and continue higher.

Wel.. Finni, you're right about Sordo... But as for Mikko.

Why 5th??

I wouldn't call strange 2003 year a full season. Then Ok, 2004 - full. 2005 wasn't full at all - only few rallies. 2006 - full. So, in summ we get only 3 full seasons for Mikko. And Sordo isn't that less experienced. He wasn't experienced in a WRC car, but as practice showed, for a good driver it doesn't take much time to get used to a WRC car. Instead, Sordo knows rallies rather well from the J-WRC, he knows rallying itself. it's incorrect in my opinion to call him less experienced than Hirvonen... He just had another ladder to the top level...

Zes

8th June 2007, 07:01

Mikko is driving his fifth FULL wrc-season and is still far from the top.

Mikko is only seven points behind Loeb. In my opinion that's not so far from the top. Just a crash for Seb in Finland and second place to Mikko, he will be ahead Loeb. Margins are not so big, thanks to current point system. Also as White Sauron said, this is not Mikko's 5th FULL season.

Roy

8th June 2007, 09:59

Mikko is only seven points behind Loeb. In my opinion that's not so far from the top. Just a crash for Seb in Finland and second place to Mikko, he will be ahead Loeb. Margins are not so big, thanks to current point system. Also as White Sauron said, this is not Mikko's 5th FULL season.

Don't watch only the leaderboard, watch the time during rally also. Thats a huge gap between Loeb and Hirvonen.

jens

8th June 2007, 11:56

I wouldn't call strange 2003 year a full season.

How wasn't it a "full season" and in what way it was "strange"?

DonJippo

8th June 2007, 12:13

Don't watch only the leaderboard, watch the time during rally also. Thats a huge gap between Loeb and Hirvonen.

Yes and normally there is also huge gap between Hirvonen and the rest...

White Sauron

8th June 2007, 12:14

How wasn't it a "full season" and in what way it was "strange"?

Well.. even though he was a "3rd" driver in the team, for me he was a "privateer" rather than a works driver. he didn't get all the support Martin and Duval gor for example.

jens

8th June 2007, 12:21

Well.. even though he was a "3rd" driver in the team, for me he was a "privateer" rather than a works driver. he didn't get all the support Martin and Duval gor for example.

At least he got experience from all the rallies and that's the most important factor that can't be ignored.

Zes

8th June 2007, 12:29

Don't watch only the leaderboard, watch the time during rally also. Thats a huge gap between Loeb and Hirvonen.

Of course it is, but the leaderboard tells you who is the champion in the end of the year. And that's all that counts afterall.

White Sauron

8th June 2007, 12:37

At least he got experience from all the rallies and that's the most important factor that can't be ignored.

Ok. But the same can be told about Sordo. he got experience in rallies from driving in J-WRC, so...

Roy

8th June 2007, 13:49

Yes and normally there is also huge gap between Hirvonen and the rest...

Yep, Hirvonen is fast, good driver, but not good and fast enough to beat the top two.

Of course it is, but the leaderboard tells you who is the champion in the end of the year. And that's all that counts afterall..

I agree. But don't forget the times he lose (and wins) on the others.

cut the b.s.

8th June 2007, 14:42

Ok. But the same can be told about Sordo. he got experience in rallies from driving in J-WRC, so...

You're being anal now, not only does the JWRC only cover 1/2 the rounds, there is a heck of a difference in driving a C2 or a slightly down spec Focus WRC. Mikko had a great learning year in 03, had he had the same spec as Martin it would not have increased his experience, his speed slightly maybe but not his experience

FrankenSchwinn

8th June 2007, 15:40

Hirvonen, I think, is a great driver for sure. I think that there is a bit of himself that is on a leash still and I feel like is only barking from a distance and he’s not allowed to bite just yet. Now, I don’t know and care if it’s ford that’s not letting him or he is doing that himself or whatever, but alls I know is that the Mikko we saw in Norway will be the Mikko we’ll see all the time as soon as Marcus retires. No, I am not saying there is some kind of team orders nor am I saying it’s a conspiracy theory but he might shut up some skeptics whenever he’ll start biting and stop barking.